S03.E10: Witness

[Ariam]

Just a side note but where did they find all these women who know how to bake without recipes? I mean I can bake pretty well but I need my Pinterest recipes or at least a cookbook! And if they’re not allowed to read it means no cookbooks. But everyone knows how to make scones off the top of their heads? And bake sour dough bread, and everything else. 

[greekmom]

44 minutes ago, Ariam said:

 But everyone knows how to make scones off the top of their heads? And bake sour dough bread, and everything else. 

I am sure Serena created a picture cookbook called the Joy's of Gilead Baking & Cooking. 

One thing that struck me as odd/funny/ironic is June’s conversation with Lawrence.  June telling Lawrence that he designed this world and that he knew he would have to participate in the ceremony eventually.  His reply: “there are always exceptions in government.”   For a group of people hell bent on turning a society, most of them are clinging to pre-Gilead ways.  Examples:

Lawrence and wife: No ceremony

Fred: wants a mistress, not a Handmaid. Frequents Jezabels and has an unhealthy obsession with June.  And in my opinion, only wants a child because his wife wants one.

Serena: still wants to read, write and be an active member in politics.  Cannot accept the role that she herself advocated for in her book.  Lost her finger and got her ass whipped and STILL is beside Fred.

Commander Winslow: possibly gay or bisexual (so gender trader in Gilead’s world).

Wife Winslow & DC gang: possibly having affairs with drivers – a no no in Gilead.

Commander Putman: Another one who wanted a mistress instead of a Handmaid.

Kind Wife & Commander of Emily: didn’t want to perform the ceremony.

Another thing that I just thought of in regards to the Aunts.  How will they know which girls are going to be Aunt-worthy for the future and WHEN will they know? My concern is the fact that the Aunts have a special dispensation to read and write.  Can you imagine if at 20 years old, a girl is tapped to become an Aunt instead of a wife, handmaid, etc?  At what point will they start learning to read and write to the capacity that is needed to fulfill the role?

One last thing, in my opinion I don’t see Lawrence as a very godly man.  I see him more of a pragmatic scientific type.  So I wonder how he got involved in the sons of Jacob and is high up the ranks.  I sort of want a backstory but not an episode of flashback and nothing disappointing as Lydia’s backstory.  These people are so bloody stupid that it makes my head hurt.

[secnarf]

10 hours ago, Ariam said:

Just a side note but where did they find all these women who know how to bake without recipes? I mean I can bake pretty well but I need my Pinterest recipes or at least a cookbook! And if they’re not allowed to read it means no cookbooks. But everyone knows how to make scones off the top of their heads? And bake sour dough bread, and everything else. 

In my head, there is a version of the 'Red Centre' that is for Marthas. I don't know what they call it but they probably have to learn how to make scones under threat of cattleprod or death.

[ferjy]

11 hours ago, greekmom said:

I am sure Serena created a picture cookbook called the Joy's of Gilead Baking & Cooking. 

One thing that struck me as odd/funny/ironic is June’s conversation with Lawrence.  June telling Lawrence that he designed this world and that he knew he would have to participate in the ceremony eventually.  His reply: “there are always exceptions in government.”   For a group of people hell bent on turning a society, most of them are clinging to pre-Gilead ways.  Examples:

Lawrence and wife: No ceremony

Fred: wants a mistress, not a Handmaid. Frequents Jezabels and has an unhealthy obsession with June.  And in my opinion, only wants a child because his wife wants one.

Serena: still wants to read, write and be an active member in politics.  Cannot accept the role that she herself advocated for in her book.  Lost her finger and got her ass whipped and STILL is beside Fred.

Commander Winslow: possibly gay or bisexual (so gender trader in Gilead’s world).

Wife Winslow & DC gang: possibly having affairs with drivers – a no no in Gilead.

Commander Putman: Another one who wanted a mistress instead of a Handmaid.

Kind Wife & Commander of Emily: didn’t want to perform the ceremony.

Another thing that I just thought of in regards to the Aunts.  How will they know which girls are going to be Aunt-worthy for the future and WHEN will they know? My concern is the fact that the Aunts have a special dispensation to read and write.  Can you imagine if at 20 years old, a girl is tapped to become an Aunt instead of a wife, handmaid, etc?  At what point will they start learning to read and write to the capacity that is needed to fulfill the role?

One last thing, in my opinion I don’t see Lawrence as a very godly man.  I see him more of a pragmatic scientific type.  So I wonder how he got involved in the sons of Jacob and is high up the ranks.  I sort of want a backstory but not an episode of flashback and nothing disappointing as Lydia’s backstory.  These people are so bloody stupid that it makes my head hurt.

Tsk, you’re supposed to contentedly watch June’s multitude of faces and disregard all the rest. All that hard work the show runners have put into getting the grimaces at just the right angles, we can’t expect them to have time to consider logical issues! Seriously though, good observations. It’s mind boggling that people here have picked up on all these things and it’s gone straight over TPTB’s heads with a big whoosh. Reading these posts every week, I want to watch a show written by all of you!

[LovesTheDrama]

Commander Lawrence needs a turkey baster. I was surprised June didn’t think of it before they had to perform the ceremony. 

[Umbelina]

1 hour ago, LovesTheDrama said:

Commander Lawrence needs a turkey baster. I was surprised June didn’t think of it before they had to perform the ceremony. 

They were all surprised by that visit, so no time to prepare.  Maybe he picked one up in case they all show up again.  Or one of his Martha's gave him one.

Just kidding, luckily they all seemed to move on after the doctor confirmed sex, and it looks like Lawrence has bigger problems now.

[chaifan]

3 hours ago, LovesTheDrama said:

Commander Lawrence needs a turkey baster. I was surprised June didn’t think of it before they had to perform the ceremony. 

That would have helped in getting prior handmaids pregnant.  But the doctor had to examine June, and I would suspect he'd be able to tell the difference between actual sex and a turkey baster.

Actually, this scene would have been an interesting opportunity to introduce another part of the resistance.  I think the doctors would more naturally be inclined to be part of the resistance, and we saw a bit of that with the doctor sewing up June's hand.  (Not that he was in the resistance, but he was definitely sympathetic and not a true Gilead believer.)  So it would have been great to see the doctor walk in, see June lying on the bed, give a cursory glance her way, and say "we're good", and walk back out. 

I swear, if anyone ever figures out time travel, I'm going to jump ahead a few years, read the chat boards for up and coming shows/movies, come back and sell myself to Hollywood as the ultimate "you know what would make this even better..." script consultant.  I'd be the plot whisperer.  That, and kill Hitler, of course.  😉

[PamelaMaeSnap]

Am I the only person (or maybe one of the only ones here who is old enough to remember them!) that keeps thinking of the 80s band Martha and the Muffins? If I thought Margaret Atwood still had ANY creative control on the S3 scripts, I'd give it a lot of credence as an inside joke since they were/are Canadian as well. 

[AngelaHunter]

On 7/30/2019 at 12:32 PM, Ariam said:

Just a side note but where did they find all these women who know how to bake without recipes?

I can cook some stuff without a recipe. But for baking? I don't think even Julia Child could do that. 1/2 teaspoon or 1 teaspoon of baking powder can be the difference between success and failure unless you do nothing but make muffins all day every day. 

[chaifan]

2 hours ago, PamelaMaeSnap said:

Am I the only person (or maybe one of the only ones here who is old enough to remember them!) that keeps thinking of the 80s band Martha and the Muffins? If I thought Margaret Atwood still had ANY creative control on the S3 scripts, I'd give it a lot of credence as an inside joke since they were/are Canadian as well. 

I don't remember the band, but I always figured the Marthas were a dig at Martha Stewart.

[Trillian]

3 hours ago, PamelaMaeSnap said:

Am I the only person (or maybe one of the only ones here who is old enough to remember them!) that keeps thinking of the 80s band Martha and the Muffins? If I thought Margaret Atwood still had ANY creative control on the S3 scripts, I'd give it a lot of credence as an inside joke since they were/are Canadian as well. 

Neither the only one who remembers nor the only one old enough to remember. I’ve had Echo Beach running through my head every time I think about that muffin scene. I guess it’s a break from Heaven is a Place on Earth ....

[secnarf]

1 hour ago, Trillian said:

Neither the only one who remembers nor the only one old enough to remember. I’ve had Echo Beach running through my head every time I think about that muffin scene. I guess it’s a break from Heaven is a Place on Earth ....

Well this is totally off-topic, but I *despise* Echo Beach with the heat of a thousand suns, and so of course it very often comes on during my six-minute drive to and from work.

However, today on my way home from work, Heaven is a Place on Earth was playing. Even though I heard enough of it during THT to last a year, it was a nice change from Echo Beach.

[PamelaMaeSnap]

13 hours ago, secnarf said:

Well this is totally off-topic, but I *despise* Echo Beach with the heat of a thousand suns, and so of course it very often comes on during my six-minute drive to and from work.

However, today on my way home from work, Heaven is a Place on Earth was playing. Even though I heard enough of it during THT to last a year, it was a nice change from Echo Beach.

For me, I still associate Heaven Is A Place On Earth with Black Mirror's San Junipero so even though i was never huge fan of the song, it's a good association. 

[angora]

23 hours ago, chaifan said:

I don't remember the band, but I always figured the Marthas were a dig at Martha Stewart.

I went with the biblical reference: Jesus visited the sisters Mary and Martha, and Martha was the one running around cooking and cleaning to make everything just right. (The moral of the story was DON'T be like Martha, because Mary was the one who sat listening to Jesus while her sister was working, but then, misinterpreting the Bible is pretty on-brand for Gilead.)

[lucindabelle]

Yeah pretty sure Martha is from the Bible.

This is not a society that has in jokes about celebrities.

I can bake many things without a cookbook. If you're making muffins or scones frequently you'd know the recipe by heart. Scones and muffins are very quick to make; I used to make them before breakfast

[Umbelina]

1 hour ago, lucindabelle said:

Yeah pretty sure Martha is from the Bible.

This is not a society that has in jokes about celebrities.

I can bake many things without a cookbook. If you're making muffins or scones frequently you'd know the recipe by heart. Scones and muffins are very quick to make; I used to make them before breakfast

Yeah, muffins are about as easy to make as it gets. I was more interested in the Bearnaise sauce that one Martha wanted to whip up to help the tough steak June bought.

They must have a Martha school somewhere, where they learn cooking and cleaning and child care.  Maybe there is even a picture "recipe" book for them, but honestly, when they began, most of them 5 years ago, they could all still read so they just learned a bunch of recipes to "pass" and remember and if they failed the course, were sent to the colonies?

[PamelaMaeSnap]

10 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Yeah, muffins are about as easy to make as it gets. I was more interested in the Bearnaise sauce that one Martha wanted to whip up to help the tough steak June bought.

They must have a Martha school somewhere, where they learn cooking and cleaning and child care.  Maybe there is even a picture "recipe" book for them, but honestly, when they began, most of them 5 years ago, they could all still read so they just learned a bunch of recipes to "pass" and remember and if they failed the course, were sent to the colonies?

It seems that at least some of the Marthas (Beth, for example) were professional chefs pre-Gilead. So maybe there was some method to the assignment madness with certain skills considered. 

[lucindabelle]

13 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Yeah, muffins are about as easy to make as it gets. I was more interested in the Bearnaise sauce that one Martha wanted to whip up to help the tough steak June bought.

They must have a Martha school somewhere, where they learn cooking and cleaning and child care.  Maybe there is even a picture "recipe" book for them, but honestly, when they began, most of them 5 years ago, they could all still read so they just learned a bunch of recipes to "pass" and remember and if they failed the course, were sent to the colonies?

Right it's not as if you can unlearn to read. In fact, while I can look at Hebrew letters and see the shapes, I can't look at Latin letters and not read them, I can't trick my eyes to doing it. 

Tablespoons and teaspoons you'd know by size. Ditto cups (for flour). Once you memorized whatever the amount of leavening you'd need for a batch, you've memorized it. I haven't bothered, but it wouldn't be hard. Muffins and scones I believe. It's not as if they're making puff pastry every day.

And after all, women baked and cooked for centuries without reading, so it was done. Women in 19th century Russia largely still didn't read, and I don't know if serfs ever did.

[VLASquared]

I apologize if this has been mentioned, but I haven’t read it anywhere: after the ceremony scene Commander Lawrence is no longer wearing his scarf. Of course in real life it would be strange to have it on after such an encounter. But in the world of “The Handmaid’s Tale” I believe this is the first time we see him without it. In interviews Bradley Whitford has mentioned how compelling he found the costume fitting for this character. I believe it’s meant to signify that Lawrence  feels there’s no longer any reason to protect himself (“save his neck”). Because his worst nightmare has come true: he’s broken his promise to his wife, hurt her irreparably, and permanently damaged their love.

Of course from Eleanor’s perspective he became another person and ruined their life as soon as he created and implemented the atrocities of Gilead. But just because he’s brilliant doesn’t mean he’s wise.

[kieyra]

Slightly O/T, after people kept saying “San Junipero” over and over, I finally googled it. I willfully don’t watch Black Mirror because reasons, but I checked out the episode once I saw that Mackenzie Davis was in it. So thanks for this. 

Edited August 4, 2019 by kieyra

[beeziebee]

On 7/31/2019 at 7:37 PM, chaifan said:

I don't remember the band, but I always figured the Marthas were a dig at Martha Stewart.

Given Gilead's biblical obsessions, I thought the Marthas were referencing Martha in the Bible, who was known for her dedication to hospitality.  YYMV, of course.

[kittykat]

Welp welp welp, welcome back show!  Faith is not yet restored bit definitely a step in the right direction.

It's no coincidence that my favorite episodes this season are Lawrence heavy (kill the fecking Waterfords already).  Eleanor has been the unexpected MVP of this season and I hope Julie Dretzin gets an Emmy nom next year.

The ceremony scene was the right kinds of creepy and everyone knocked it out of the part.  I'm spoiled so I'm ready for HIM to bid adios after tonight.  I want a Lawrence backstory episode as to what his mindset was when Gilead was created.  He obviously didn't give a shit about the religious end of it but figured hey a society where we grow organic food and can clean up the environment, I'll bite.  I think Eleanor says it best that this is their penance for letting this world unfold.

Of course this was all just ceremony (GEDDIT) for this to be the final nail in the coffin for Serena standing by Fred.  Do not make the redemption happen show gods, it's too late even if we're happy to see Checkov's phone again.

On the June front I'm glad she finally got to be the provider of information but the part about Janine's son being dead just killed me.

As far as the Marthas cooking without a recipe.  Once you've done something a few times you pretty much get the gist of the measurements.  Baking I agree is a whole different beast but have a few base recipes for bread, cake or even muffins and you're golden.  Having worked in kitchens, it doesn't take long to memorize recipes.  Even the bearnaise sauce mentioned upthread is derived from Hollandaise, one of the five mother sauces which is French Culinary 101 if you are classically trained. 

Only two eps behind now.  Gotta get in the right mind to watch IT GO DOWN!

[taraS]

I am wondering about the age of Janine's baby. If everyone lost their kids 5 years ago, including Janine, and Janine was one of the first ones pregnant out of the red center, in this district, why is baby Angela still a baby. Why is she aging so slowly? She doesn't seem much older than Nichole/Holly. She should be walking and being a toddler right? She was born in the beginning of season 1. Before June got pregnant. She should be at least 3.

[Emily Thrace]

On 7/31/2019 at 5:02 PM, AngelaHunter said:

I can cook some stuff without a recipe. But for baking? I don't think even Julia Child could do that. 1/2 teaspoon or 1 teaspoon of baking powder can be the difference between success and failure unless you do nothing but make muffins all day every day. 

Maybe they have recipe books that are just symbols like at the market. A picture of half a teaspoon for half a teaspoon that sort of thing. The same picture on the box of baking soda to represent baking soda in the book.

[LordOfLotion]

On 7/31/2019 at 4:26 PM, chaifan said:

That would have helped in getting prior handmaids pregnant.  But the doctor had to examine June, and I would suspect he'd be able to tell the difference between actual sex and a turkey baster.

Actually, this scene would have been an interesting opportunity to introduce another part of the resistance.  I think the doctors would more naturally be inclined to be part of the resistance, and we saw a bit of that with the doctor sewing up June's hand.  (Not that he was in the resistance, but he was definitely sympathetic and not a true Gilead believer.)  So it would have been great to see the doctor walk in, see June lying on the bed, give a cursory glance her way, and say "we're good", and walk back out. 

I swear, if anyone ever figures out time travel, I'm going to jump ahead a few years, read the chat boards for up and coming shows/movies, come back and sell myself to Hollywood as the ultimate "you know what would make this even better..." script consultant.  I'd be the plot whisperer.  That, and kill Hitler, of course.  😉

I don't think Lawrence wanted kids running around his house due to his wife's mental health. That's what my impression was anyway.

And you're not going to go back and kill Hitler. There's a law. 😄

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HitlersTimeTravelExemptionAct