Spoiler Discussion Thread: The Final Countdown

[apinknightmare]

1 minute ago, calliope1975 said:

Yep. She would have strapped Mia to her front/back and found the group ASAP whether they were in the bunker or Russia. No way Felicity sits any of this out. So I'll handwave any dumb explanation the writers come up with. 

Same. I don't really care so much about the excuses because I know why they're being made, and they're doing a really great job of acknowledging Felicity despite Emily's absence. I suppose I'd be bitter about it if that wasn't happening. I'm also not really sure what kind of in-story excuse could be made for why Oliver isn't hallucinating Felicity, LOL. Maybe he'll wind up asking where she is or something (provided his memory of her isn't altered, since he seems to not recognize Mia calling him dad). 

[BkWurm1]

Hallucinating with an altered memory could explain Felicity's absence.  They've not done too terrible a job with Felicity not being there yet so I expect it will be somewhat adequate reason for why she's not there again.  Every week they've brought up their connection so I have no doubts we'll get something.

18 hours ago, tv echo said:

If Oliver is really dead dead (as MG tweeted above), then are we to understand that Felicity also died at the end of S7 when she went through the portal? If so, what a bummer ending to the series.

I wouldn't start worrying about Felicity being dead or even Oliver being dead dead.  The more MG says well of course Oliver is dead in 2040 the more I roll my eyes.  And the Monitor isn't the angel of death.  Felicity was alive when she walked through a wormhole. Even if she goes straight to a paradise dimension.  She never died.  But she can't come back (assuming they keep that part) so I don't think it matters really one way or the other. There's no reason to assume "paradise dimension" is reserved for the dead.  But I'm sure it's a place that writes its own rules so stuff like dead or alive may not come into it at all.  

9 hours ago, Josh371982 said:

This reporter/writer is seeing a different show then I amcause I don't see fire in scenes Mia shares with Dinah and Laurel. 

There's always a nice roaring dumpster fire.  

Edited November 20, 2019 by BkWurm1

[Velocity23]

[Chris24601]

The funny thing is that the only reason we’re even calling wherever Felicity is going a “Paradise Dimension” is because it’s an explicit reference to the Crisis comics and it had nothing to do with death.

Rather, it was a pocket dimension outside the newly created “monoverse” for characters who the writers specifically didn’t intend to ever use again, but didn’t want to just wipe out of existence either.

It was most specifically for the Golden Age Superman because he literally started the concept of superheroes as we know them (and it couldn’t be a Paradise Dimension without his wife Lois there so she got saved from Earth 2 before it got wiped out and went with him). A few others went too, but they were ancillary to giving a happy ending to Golden Age Superman and Lois.

Thematically, Ollie literally started the whole concept of the Arrowverse so he’s essentially the Golden Age Superman of this franchise. He and Felicity are also characters they’re not really going to be able to use again, but who they want to have a good end despite no longer being around.

Thus... Paradise Dimension.

So, yeah... Ollie’s not gonna die die, but something in the Crisis will require him to become “Something Else” that can’t just stick around in the universe either... so he’s gone and Felicity stays off the grid to look out for and raise the kids then goes to join Ollie once she’s sure they can make it without her.

Plus, I’m still not convinced that that much of the future we’ve seen is actually going to get changed. They’ve already gone to the effort of establishing these characters and the s7 flash forwards were already written with Crisis in mind.

My hunch is that part of saving what’s left of the multiverse (in the comics they merged all the remaining universes into a new singular one strong enough to resist the antimatter wave, but this also resulted in characters getting altered backstories) may involve wiping out all memory of Mia, William and Connor visiting the present (except from Ollie who’s outside the merged universe and possibly Mia and Co. since they traveled from the already merged universe) and because of that the future ends up playing out just as we saw in s7.

[Josh371982]

4 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

Hallucinating with an altered memory could explain Felicity's absence.  They've not done too terrible a job with Felicity not being there yet so I expect it will be somewhat adequate reason for why she's not there again.  Every week they've brought up their connection so I have no doubts we'll get something.

I wouldn't start worrying about Felicity being dead or even Oliver being dead dead.  The more MG says well of course Oliver is dead in 2040 the more I roll my eyes.  And the Monitor isn't the angel of death.  Felicity was alive when she walked through a wormhole. Even if she goes straight to a paradise dimension.  She never died.  But she can't come back (assuming they keep that part) so I don't think it matters really one way or the other. There's no reason to assume "paradise dimension" is reserved for the dead.  But I'm sure it's a place that writes its own rules so stuff like dead or alive may not come into it at all.  

There's always a nice roaring dumpster fire.  

True that. I saw fire last night. Anger seeing Mia kiss her ass when shes tired to kill her parents before and helped kill William 's bio Mom but we have to ignore that like Felicity did in season 7 as Laurel became a BFF of hers

[Trisha]

In that video of them wrapping people, is that the guy who plays Rory standing next to EBR?!?

Mia is there but I think it’s in the present (EBR is wearing her glasses which she doesn’t in the future), and it looks like everyone is there but SA (I *think* that’s DR standing below RG). Maybe everyone goes to the bunker one last time to honour/remember Oliver, and it’s the scene KM talked about where 10 regulars wrapped at the same time? 

[apinknightmare]

2 minutes ago, Trisha said:

In that video of them wrapping people, is that the guy who plays Rory standing next to EBR?!?

It is! I thought his return had been spoiled already (though I can't remember how, LOL).

[Velocity23]

11 minutes ago, Trisha said:

In that video of them wrapping people, is that the guy who plays Rory standing next to EBR?!?

Mia is there but I think it’s in the present (EBR is wearing her glasses which she doesn’t in the future), and it looks like everyone is there but SA (I *think* that’s DR standing below RG). Maybe everyone goes to the bunker one last time to honour/remember Oliver, and it’s the scene KM talked about where 10 regulars wrapped at the same time? 

i think the bunker might just be where the all the cast hung out for the last day of filming. It doesnt meant they necessarily filmed there.

[insomniadreams88]

11 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

It is! I thought his return had been spoiled already (though I can't remember how, LOL).

It had — on RG’s Instagram I think? 

[Trisha]

28 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

i think the bunker might just be where the all the cast hung out for the last day of filming. It doesnt meant they necessarily filmed there.

But they were calling actors’ names out. Usually when they wrap an actor, isn’t it right after they call “cut” on their last scene?

[tv echo]

[tv echo]

Arrow's Katherine McNamara on Mia's Complicated Relationship With Her Father
By RUSS BURLINGAME - November 19, 2019 
https://comicbook.com/dc/2019/11/19/arrow-katherine-mcnamara-mia-smoak-relationship-with-oliver/ 

Quote

McNamara joined ComicBook.com to talk about the episode, her future with the franchise, and the build-up to "Crisis on Infinite Earths." She explained that while season seven happened almost exclusively in the future timeline, she understood pretty early on that the plans for season eight were to bring the Next-Gen Team Arrow back to the past.

"I found that out pretty early on. Beth called me before the season and kind of gave me a broad rundown of what this season would be," McNamara told ComicBook.com. "Given that it's the final season of Arrow, given that so much came since the end of last season, and there were a lot of questions to be answered, Beth very kindly called and filled me in. I was so excited because that's been Mia's struggle since day one. She has this desire and this missing part of her to get to know her father, but also, in her mind, he is the reason, and his choices are the reason, that she had such a difficult life and missed out on so much. So now that he is standing right in front of her, she's really forced to confront a lot of these things in a very real way and how she handles that, it changes throughout the course of the season."

At some point, McNamara hints, Mia will stop being (as) angry at Oliver and start building a real relationship with him, understanding that he did not make his decision lightly and that sacrificing himself was as much for Felicity and Mia as anything else he could have done. Just then, she id, the bottom will fall out.

"I think Mia has to come to terms with the fact that her father is not necessarily going to be a part of her life in the future, and her time with him is limited," McNamara said. "While she's not necessarily aware of that at this moment, she's very quickly going to be, and unfortunately that comes at a point where she actually has built a relationship with him and has started to bond with him in a sense. And it certainly brings out the fight in her once more, but that's what we get to see over these next couple of episodes. And that's why I'm particularly excited about this 'Prochnost' episode that's coming up, because it's the first time you really get to see Oliver and Mia interact one-on-one and go on missions together. And really, Mia gets to show off what she does best and it's exciting for her given that her father doesn't really know the full extent of her skillset. But also for Oliver, he's in this weird place of wanting to protect his children but also needing them to help the mission move forward and it's how do you put your trust in the person that you want to protect the most?"

Edited November 20, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Interesting theory - however, I don't think this will be the case because Harbinger is supposed to have a long history with the Monitor...

Arrow Theory: Did Lyla Make a Deal With the Monitor to Get [_____] Back?
By Matt Webb Mitovich / November 20 2019,
https://tvline.com/2019/11/20/arrow-lyla-deal-with-monitor-get-baby-sara-back/

Quote

What could possibly drive Lyla, heretofore a reliably noble character, to join up with the mysterious entity Oliver has been led to believe is out to destroy universes?

That question keeps brining me to a stray teaser Arrow showrunner Beth Scwhartz shared after an early October screening of the final season’s premiere (which of course took place on the ill-fated Earth-Two). In the press conference that followed, Schwartz was asked, “Is there an Earth where Baby Sara still exists?” — a reference to the child of Lyla and John’s that was born in October 2014, but later became a baby boy as the result of Barry Allen’s Flashpoint antics.

Schwartz’s response to the inquiry about Baby Sara, whose erasure from existence has been an ongoing quibble with some fans: “We are definitely making up for that this season, so, keep your eyes open for it.”

To date — and nowhere in the Future JJ storyline — the Baby Sara “switch” has not once come up, by my math. Meaning, Schwartz’s tease has yet to play out.

Could that be because it will play into Lyla’s yet-to-be-revealed motivation? Just as the Monitor dangled a restored Earth-Two before Laurel, did he lure Lyla with the prospect of getting her and John’s daughter back (as fine a lad as wee JJ might be)?

Edited November 20, 2019 by tv echo

[Chris24601]

1 hour ago, tv echo said:

"I think Mia has to come to terms with the fact that her father is not necessarily going to be a part of her life in the future, and her time with him is limited," McNamara said. "While she's not necessarily aware of that at this moment, she's very quickly going to be, and unfortunately that comes at a point where she actually has built a relationship with him and has started to bond with him in a sense. And it certainly brings out the fight in her once more, but that's what we get to see over these next couple of episodes.

To me, that does NOT sound like the sort of thing where they're just going to wipe it away with a reset of the future. There's just too much character development work there to wipe it away and lends itself to a pretty solid rationale for why she decides to take up the mantle of Green Arrow, whereas she showed no interest before the jump to the past.

I'm going to be very interested in seeing how the backdoor pilot (presumably set in 2040) and Mia also apparently being in the final scenes of the finale in episode 10 after that is supposed to work unless the finale is almost a "Oliver Queen, This was your life!" type of deals where Ollie in the paradise dimension gets to see all the ways he impacted everyone's lives (making the scene in the bunker technically a flashback to before Mia returned to 2040) for the better and that it was worth it and then closes with Felicity joining him there.

[tv echo]

[tv echo]

[tv echo]

Sounds like this (phone) interview was done on Nov. 15...

Arrow's Katherine McNamara Digs Deep Into Oliver and Mia's Father/Daughter Relationship
by LAUREN PIESTER | Tue., Nov. 19, 2019 
https://www.eonline.com/news/1095040/arrow-s-katherine-mcnamara-digs-deep-into-oliver-and-mia-s-father-daughter-relationship 

Quote

E! News: Is it really strange for you guys to have fully wrapped production?
McNamara: You know, it's funny, 'cause yesterday we had one more pickup day where I shot one scene for episode nine and then insert shots and all of this, and yesterday was just such a short day. It was just fun play time with the crew. But the day before was the big day, the last official day of production when Stephen wrapped, and Emily wrapped, and everybody else. There was one scene in particular that we had so many people in that they series wrapped about 10 people when we finished the scene. And that's when I cried, because there are so many possibilities for the future of what the Arrowverse could be, especially for me, but it will never be the same. This is special, this is unique, and you know, the people are what made that show so iconic, and that was really special to be there for that moment. 
*  *  *
When I talked to Ben Lewis, he was saying that you guys didn't really know Stephen that well, so the actors were kind of going through the same thing the characters are going through, getting to know this person they knew so much about without actually knowing them. Did you have that same experience? 
Absolutely. Most of my interactions with Stephen up until that point had been social interactions or show gatherings or wrap parties or things like that, and that's a different experience than when you're spending a day on set with a person. And it was kind of a wonderful way to get to bring the story to life in getting to know Stephen and getting to know the character relationship and getting to build that very organically. And I think it played out really beautifully on screen, and Mia and Oliver have very similar sensibilities, but also there's a lot of Mia's sense of humor that mirrors Felicity. So you get to see quite a bit of banter between the two fo them, and Oliver's trying his best to be a good dad, but Mia will only accept so much help and direction, and she has a mind of her own and Oliver very quickly discovers that, much to his chagrin. 
*  *  *
How does he react to finding out his daughter is this badass fighter? 
I mean, I think he's worried for her, right? He wants her to be safe and wants her to be OK and to not have to fight for her life, but when he sees it, I think it makes him proud. I mean I can't speak for him, but I would like to think that he sees a lot of himself in her and uses this opportunity for the two of them to work together and to build a future together even in the limited time they have. Because of course Oliver knows that his time, at least according to what the Monitor says, his time is potentially coming to an end, whereas Mia doesn't exactly know that or know the exact timeline of that. I think he has a little bit of reassurance that she's gonna be OK no matter what happens. 
*  *  *
Are Mia and William at all worried about the fact that they were just thrown into the past and they left a whole future behind? 
There's so much going on that they don't really have time to think about that. All they can do to make the future better is to worry about the present or past or whatever...whatever verb tense we're using. Future, past, present, whatever it is, the time that they're currently in is the time they are concerning themselves with, and that's only by nature of the fact that in the hopes of changing the future, maybe they can affect something while they're helping Oliver complete his mission. Plus I think both of them are overwhelmed by the fact that they're actually having a chance to bond with their father in a way they never had the opportunity before. 
*  *  *
Can you talk at all about the backdoor spinoff you filmed? How much more are we going to get to know Mia? 
I mean, I can say it's very exciting, and very different, and there's really not much else I can say. 

Can you talk instead about the journey that Mia is on for the rest of this season, since we're now halfway through? 
We see Mia grow quite a bit this season, and she's very sure of herself in certain aspects of who she is as a person. She knows she's a fighter, she knows she's competent in that realm, and that is where she finds her strength. It's the other side of who she is, the emotional side, the human side that is underdeveloped at this point, and time and time again—we've seen it in the last couple episodes and we'll continue to see it for the rest of the season--she is, and so is Oliver, they both have a lot to work through when it comes to their relationship. His choice to leave her, her having to grow up without a father, her having to grow up in his shadow, the effect that it had on her mother and on her brother, the fact that she never had a chance to have William in her life because of her father's choices. And there's a lot of resentment there. 

The one thing she's always wanted in her life has been her father, but in her mind, he's also the reason that her life wasn't what it could have been, and being confronted with him and having to deal with that is a lot for her. And it forces both of them to deal with that uncomfortable elephant in the room. And with the tensions as high as they are given the greater world conflict, it brings things to a head over the next couple of episodes, and it forces them both to deal with it in a very direct way and you get to see aspects of their character that you otherwise wouldn't have. And it definitely leaves a mark on both of them. 

Can you tell me everything about the crossover?
That's the one thing I can't discuss, but it is so epic. I was definitely fangirling quite a bit while shooting the crossover.

Seems like a dream if you're a fan of this kind of thing to get to be on five shows at once. 
It was pretty great. I mean, I got to kind of have this tour of the multiverse, as it were, while shooting it, and getting to work with everyone and kind of witness everything...it was really amazing. It's something I'll never forget. 

Edited November 21, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Ask Ausiello: Spoilers on This Is Us, Evil, The Good Fight, Manifest, Million Little, HTGAWM, Watchmen, TWD and More
By Michael Ausiello / November 21 2019
https://tvline.com/2019/11/21/how-to-get-away-with-murder-season-6-spoilers-finale-htgawm/ 

Quote

Question: I’m a diehard Arrow fan! Do you have any scoop on what’s left of the final season? –Brooke
Ausiello: Katherine McNamara told Matt Mitovich that having Emily Bett Rickards’ Felicity return for the series finale was “so critical” for the storyline. “It was just lovely to have her back on set,” she also said of her TV mom. “It made even the social aspect of wrapping the show mean so much more because she is so much of what Arrow is and I love Emily to death…. I’m so glad it worked out.”

Edited November 22, 2019 by tv echo

[way2interested]

Sounds like a good Mia/William scene coming up in 807

[tv echo]

^^^ Here's the full video of that panel, including a longer quote from KM - sounds like she's talking about 807...

Katherine McNamara and Dominic Sherwood Panel at DarkShadeCon in Brussels - November 24
Golden Warrior   Nov. 24, 2019

-- On her fave scene to shoot with Ben Lewis, KM: "Ohhh - Ben, who plays my brother on Arrow... (DS interjected, "This is a Shadowhunters convention, not an Arrow convention!") ... Um, my favorite scene to shoot with Ben was - actually, it's actually coming up in two episodes from now... (Audience laughs because DS is miming drawing back a bow and flipping back his hair) ... You know, Dom, imitation is the highest form of flattery. (Audience cheers) So thank you very much. Anyway, um, it's one of my favorite scenes coming up in the next episode - er, it's not the next episode but the one following that. Um, I can't say anything about it yet, but it's great. I love working with Ben, he's so wonderful... (To DS) Ben is the one who played my brother, so not JoJo and not Rick."

Edited November 25, 2019 by tv echo

[Primal Slayer]

Saw these floating around....surprised that we'll be getting something (seemingly) so big for tomorrows episode (oops, looks like its the midseason finale). Great looking lineup though.

Edited November 26, 2019 by Primal Slayer

[insomniadreams88]

4 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Saw these floating around....surprised that we'll be getting something (seemingly) so big for tomorrows episode (oops, looks like its the midseason finale). Great looking lineup though.

Dinah in the first photo — 🤨

And in the second photo, I know Diggle and Laurel are probably looking at someone in front of them, but it looks so weird that everyone else is turning toward the explosion. They look like they’ve been frozen in place. 

[Mellowyellow]

Is JH.....posing? Good Lord someone get that woman acting classes! Or at least have the director tell her not to do that! It's embarrassing!

[apinknightmare]

I wonder if Laurel's going to get a big hero sacrifice in this episode to complete her ~redemption before being brought back somehow after Crisis to go forth and spin off. This is my best guess for why she's not in the crossover and why we were beat about the head and neck with so many people commenting on how much she's changed last ep. I'll reevaluate this theory after tomorrow's ep. If we're beat about the head and neck with her newfound goodness again (and with Quentin returning, we must), then I'm doubling down! 

As for the lineup - they look good for the most part. But didn't Colton film for this episode? Or was that something else?

[way2interested]

11 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

But didn't Colton film for this episode? Or was that something else?

He did. He filmed what looked like a plane crash or something on Lian Yu (like an explanation as to why he was on the island or something, but obviously it might be different since back then 803 didn't come out yet)

[way2interested]

https://www.tvguide.com/news/arrows-david-ramsey-interview-paul-blackthorne-quentin-lance-return/

Quote

Arrow is officially headed into the homestretch as we reach the halfway point of its 10-episode final season, and things are only going to get crazier in Tuesday's episode. Directed by David Ramsey, "Reset" drops Oliver (Stephen Amell) into an alternate universe where everything is not quite what it seems. Amell previously said the episode will adopt a narrative technique never before seen on Arrow, and Ramsey echoed that sentiment when TV Guide spoke to him about directing the hour.

"It's really exciting. I think it's an episode of Arrow that is very unconventional. I think it's a very interesting plot device of how we help Oliver on his journey to accepting his fate," Ramsey said. "A lot of times Oliver's arc begins with one episode and maybe doesn't end until three episodes, six episodes later, or a full season later. Oliver's emotional arc takes place in 42 minutes, and he starts in one place and ends up in another place. And we travel that with him literally in a way that, I think, we don't normally do on this series. So it's a different type of episode."

What exactly that plot device is you'll have to watch to find out, but we do know it has something to do with the return of Quentin Lance (Paul Blackthorne), who died in the show's Season 6 finale but is alive and kicking in this alternate reality.

Season 8 has felt like a rundown of Arrow's greatest hits, and the list would not be complete without Lance. Given what we know about so many of the returning characters who came before him, we should probably expect a double dose of emotion to hit us where the fallen detective is concerned.

"I think he steals scenes, man," Ramsey said. "I think Paul was brilliant, brilliant, brilliant in this episode. There are things he had to do and create — a character to not only service his own arc but also the larger arc of Oliver's — and he did it just brilliantly. I thought he was incredibly in this episode."

As you can imagine, there's a lot to do and see in this special episode, which means some things will have to wait, like the inevitable showdown between Lyla (Audrey Marie Anderson) and Diggle that we've been so desperately wanting since we found out she's in league with the Monitor (LaMonica Garrett). He discovered her affiliation with Mar Novu at the end of Episode 5, but he only managed to confront her about it for about two seconds before he was hit with a tranquilizer dart. The rest of that conversation won't go down in Tuesday's outing, but that doesn't mean Lyla is entirely off the hook either.

"[Diggle and Lyla] are going to have it out soon, but it won't be in this episode," Ramsey confirmed. "Some of those questions you have for Lyla will be answered in this episode, but they'll be answered between Oliver and Lyla, not between John and Lyla."

Something tells us that argument is going to be an ugly one, unless Lyla can pull a pretty excellent explanation out of thin air to account for how long and to what degree she's been allied with the Monitor. Who knows, maybe this is why JJ (Charlie Barnett) turns out the way he does.

[apinknightmare]

6 minutes ago, way2interested said:

"It's really exciting. I think it's an episode of Arrow that is very unconventional. I think it's a very interesting plot device of how we help Oliver on his journey to accepting his fate," Ramsey said. "A lot of times Oliver's arc begins with one episode and maybe doesn't end until three episodes, six episodes later, or a full season later. Oliver's emotional arc takes place in 42 minutes, and he starts in one place and ends up in another place. And we travel that with him literally in a way that, I think, we don't normally do on this series. So it's a different type of episode."

I'm interested to see what he's talking about, but...I haven't gotten the impression that Oliver was struggling at all with accepting his fate. The most we've seen was him question leaving his family, but he seems to have accepted that was the right thing to do too.

[Featherhat]

I haven't really seen that either. Unless DR is talking about Oliver leaving his family especially having met his kids, not necessarily the dying part?

I am wondering if something happens to BS that means she won't be in COIE. I know KC has been barely in them before but this time she has an actual biggish role in the lead up and a reason for being there, so she gets some sort of sacrificial moment before and then comes back in 8.09?

[Primal Slayer]

Yeah, Oliver has been willing to practically die since S1.

They better have a good reason for Laurel to miss out on COIE, either way I likely wont like it but at least give us a good reason.

[tv echo]

Source links for 807 promo pics...
https://www.cwtvpr.com/the-cw/shows/arrow/photos?page=1&show=arrow&season=8
http://www.greenarrowtv.com/arrow-purgatory-preview-images/
https://www.spoilertv.com/2019/11/arrow-episode-807-purgatory-press.html
https://tvline.com/gallery/arrow-season-8-photos-final-season/

Note that Edward Fyers (Sebastian Dunn) returns, in addition to a bunch of Deathstrokes and Yao Fei (Byron Mann)...
 

Edited November 26, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Arrow Director David Ramsey Teases Lyla Reveals, Baby Sara, and Taking Oliver to 'A New Emotional Place'
By Matt Webb Mitovich / November 26 2019
https://tvline.com/2019/11/26/arrow-season-8-episode-5-interview-david-ramsey-diggle-lyla-betrayal/ 

Quote

TVLINE | When I first saw the promo for this episode, I was like, “Huh, another type of ‘alternate reality’ thing….” Make me feel better about that. What makes this time different?
Let’s see…. If you think about Russian dolls…. If you think about Groundhog Day…. If you think about… [Searches for the right words]

TVLINE | People caught in a loop? Things folding in on themselves? Inception?
Think about Inception, think about that. If you think about that, you’ll get more of an idea where we’re going with this. I don’t think you’ve seen this before.

TVLINE | What specific challenges did this episode present for you as director?
It’s interesting you ask that. This particular episode — and I’m trying to say this in a way that I’m not giving away too much — has challenges in that Oliver has to be helped along in his journey, by these figures, and what you want to do with the episode is make sure that what he’s getting is sincere information, that he’s not being manipulated by the Monitor.

By the end of this episode, we don’t want people to say, “Oliver maybe shouldn’t be where he was emotionally, because [SPOILER REDACTED].” What you want, at the end of it, is for all of it to be a sincere, cathartic experience that you have gone through with Oliver, so that by the time it’s over, you’ve gone to a new emotional place with Oliver — and you don’t feel as if it’s been manufactured in any way. You don’t feel used.

TVLINE | We will feel like these past few episodes were time well spent.
That’s right. All these things really, truly happened in such a way where it has helped Oliver in a sincere, truthful fashion. And when you see the episode, you’ll understand better what I’m talking about. So that was the challenge for me as a director.

Paul [Blackthorne] and Stephen [Amell] and I had long conversations about this, just in terms of by the end of this episode, you wanted to feel like Oliver is a different place, and it’s because his experience has been genuine.

TVLINE | When last we saw Diggle, he had been zinged in neck by a tranq dart while glaring at Lyla with much confusion. What state is he in the next time we see him?
The state you see him in is… recovery. That would be the quick answer. He’s recovered from what happened on that rooftop. And you get to see them all, and they have all recovered. Part of the recovery is what’s happening in the episode — particularly with Oliver. I can’t tell you exactly how they recover, but when you meet Diggle, Oliver and Laurel again, after the tranq, they’ve all recovered.

TVLINE | I imagine that there are serious words to be had between John and Lyla.
There are.

TVLINE | Do we get that meaty scene this week?
I will say this: the scene between Diggle and Lyla this week will happen between Oliver and Lyla. That moment that you’re looking for, between Diggle and Lyla, will happen not in this episode. But, some of the questions that you have for Lyla will be asked through Oliver this week.

TVLINE | Were you excited for Audrey [Marie Anderson], to see her finally “suit up” herself, as Harbinger?
Oh my God…. Audrey came to me like, “Oh, I feel different in this uniform! You just put it on and something happens!” I was like, “Now you’re getting the superhero stuff!” I was so excited, and happy, for her. She’s been with us since the beginning, and it’s such a wonderful arc for her character. And that arc, you’re going to see so much of what is happening with Lyla and with Harbinger in this episode. This episode will answer a lot of questions for you concerning her.

TVLINE | [Showrunner] Beth Schwartz said at very start of the season that there would be some sort of callback to the Baby Sara situation. Is that still on horizon?
It is. It is not in this episode, but Baby Sara has not been forgotten — thank you for asking! — and you will be getting a callback, without a doubt. And honestly, I would say you’ll be getting more than just a callback.

TVLINE | Will we see further bonding between Diggle and Connor? You and Joseph David-Jones had some really nice scenes a few weeks back.
Yes, you will. You will be getting bonding between father and son — and some recovery from what has happened to his biological son [J.J.] in the future.

TVLINE | They just released the photos for next week’s episode, which takes place on Lian Yu, and it looks bananas. There is one of all of you lined up, and coming through a fiery explosion behind you is someone on a motorcycle.
Yep. Yep. Lian Yu plays an integral part in not only next week’s episode, but also in [the]”Crisis” [crossover event]. Lian Yu is an important piece of “Crisis,” so next week’s episode is a bit of a precursor to that.

Edited November 26, 2019 by tv echo

[Trisha]

I'm guessing he's teasing the finale?

[tv echo]

Arrow star David Ramsey teases Quentin's 'strange' return: 'This is the Twilight Zone'
By Chancellor Agard November 26, 2019 
https://ew.com/tv/2019/11/26/arrow-david-ramsey-8x06-preview-quentin-return-lyla/ 

Quote

“Paul stole a lot of scenes. He was just brilliant,” star David Ramsey, who directed this episode, tells EW. “Quentin coming back is strange. For all intents and purposes, Oliver is in the Matrix. Quentin is a tool by which the Monitor uses to help guide Oliver into making a sound decision. This is the Twilight Zone, and he comes back through the memory of Oliver Queen.”

According to Ramsey, the episode is unlike your typical Arrow episode, which may explain why Amell tweeted last month that it “might be our best episode ever.”

“I can’t speak for Stephen, but I think much of it is: Number one, it’s just a different type of episode than Arrow has ever had,” says Ramsey. “[Second], a lot of times for Oliver’s arc, it doesn’t begin at the beginning of the show and end at the end of the episode. It begins at the beginning of the episode and ends a season later, or the end of that season, or six episodes later. There’s a long arc. This was Oliver going from one emotional moment and it went kind of 360. He went all the way around and he was in a totally different emotional place by the time it ended. I think that’s fun for an actor because you’re going through a full arc in the episode as opposed to leaving that arc hanging at the end and now we’re going to go someplace else.”

For Ramsey, this episode stands from his previous directorial effort (season 6’s “Past Sins”) on the show because he had the freedom and time needed to focus on the many emotional beats in the script, which was written by Onalee Hunter Hughes and Maya Houston.

“It was a great script,” says Ramsey. “It came in, and I can’t overemphasize, at the right page count, which really means a lot man because you can sit in these moments, you can design shots where you just pull back and there’s silence, which doesn’t happen on Arrow. It’s not just about the page count. It’s partially because that’s what Arrow is. Arrow moves very quickly. But this was an episode that was a bit different. We had a different pace in that respect.” 

So what does Oliver’s trip sideways have to do with Lyla’s seeming betrayal of the team? Well, all Ramsey would say is, “Lyla has accepted that “Crisis” is coming, and that’s really the arc of the show. Even though she’s working with the Monitor, her biggest purpose is to help Oliver.”

Edited November 26, 2019 by tv echo

[Trisha]

2 hours ago, tv echo said:

So what does Oliver’s trip sideways have to do with Lyla’s seeming betrayal of the team? Well, all Ramsey would say is, “Lyla has accepted that “Crisis” is coming, and that’s really the arc of the show. Even though she’s working with the Monitor, her biggest purpose is to help Oliver.”

Love that DR continues to just casually drop spoilers. The show: maybe Lyla really has betrayed them and turned into a bad guy! DR: Nah, fam.

I hope I like this episode because it's the first one Maya's written and she's a delight on social media! I'm also pleasantly surprised that this season continues to be so Oliver-heavy. This is usually the stretch of 1-2 episodes where the lead got time off to shoot the crossover (which is happening on the other shows -- Barry spent most of a recent ep of The Flash away in Aruba).

[Velocity23]

13 minutes ago, Trisha said:

Love that DR continues to just casually drop spoilers. The show: maybe Lyla really has betrayed them and turned into a bad guy! DR: Nah, fam.

I hope I like this episode because it's the first one Maya's written and she's a delight on social media! I'm also pleasantly surprised that this season continues to be so Oliver-heavy. This is usually the stretch of 1-2 episodes where the lead got time off to shoot the crossover (which is happening on the other shows -- Barry spent most of a recent ep of The Flash away in Aruba).

I dont think that was because of the crossover. 

[way2interested]

10 minutes ago, Trisha said:

I hope I like this episode because it's the first one Maya's written and she's a delight on social media! I'm also pleasantly surprised that this season continues to be so Oliver-heavy. This is usually the stretch of 1-2 episodes where the lead got time off to shoot the crossover (which is happening on the other shows -- Barry spent most of a recent ep of The Flash away in Aruba).

Same. Part of me worries that 804 and 805 might be the peak XD, but DR talking about how it's all about Oliver's mindset in 806 makes it seem like he's definitely in most of it. 

And fun! Looks like the Queen family get some Big Belly Burger!

[Velocity23]

[way2interested]

Looks like ST is in between JH and KC for 810

[Chaser]

It does. Emily is in the back too. 

I wonder if they are going to parallel Oliver’s funerals cause I can’t imagine them bringing Moira back in Crisis.

[Velocity23]

[Featherhat]

1 hour ago, Chaser said:

It does. Emily is in the back too. 

I wonder if they are going to parallel Oliver’s funerals cause I can’t imagine them bringing Moira back in Crisis.

I suppose she could always been in whatever afterlife or pocket dimension he ends up in (along with Robert, Tommy and obviously E1! 😉 ), but I would think it's probably some sort of parallel to his "death" now or flashback. 

[tv echo]

Same pic as above, but with KC's instagram comment...

[tv echo]

[tv echo]

OK, here's my question - Oliver's headstone says that he died in 2019, but the Arrow crossover episode doesn't air until 2020, so is SA absent from the Arrow installment of the crossover?...

[apinknightmare]

25 minutes ago, tv echo said:

It would be nice if this is Oliver and/or Felicity telling the story of Green Arrow to Mia after Oliver for really real doesn’t die. 

[Primal Slayer]

If Moira ends up alive again because of COIE....hmmm  or I guess yeah they could show her at Olivers first "funeral"

[tv echo]

From Mad Max: Beyond Thunderdome...

"This you knows. The years travel fast. And time after time, I've done the Tell. But this ain't one body's Tell. It's the Tell of us all, and you got to listen it and 'member. 'Cause what you hears today, you got to tell the newborn tomorrow. ... But most of all, we 'members the man that finded us...."

Edited November 26, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

807 promo...

(SpoilerTV)

[insomniadreams88]

From the 806 thread:

13 minutes ago, tv echo said:

And we still haven't seen how Diggle and Lyla end up adopting Connor. Are they saving that for the series finale? Or will it be some throwaway line explanation?

Maybe now they don’t and we’ll see a different Connor and JJ in 809 and the potential spinoff? Could explain comments about a love triangle with Mia and wasn’t AS on set for 809?

[tv echo]

So it looks like Dinah and E2 Laurel will be in the same scenes (fight scenes) in next week's episode. I'm curious to see how they handle the fact that both KC and JH are claiming to be Black Canary now.