Season 5: Speculation

[sunflower]

 

I'd rather have chapters and chapters of Dornish and Greyjoys then have moon faced Dany wishing she could stay in bed with Daario all day. blech.

 

I have to disagree.  As much as I dislike Dany, those Greyjoy chapters were hell.  Reek and his sister fine, but the drowned god brother guy and Victorian whatever.  Deadly boring.  I was actually glad for the Dany chapters in ADWD because at least it was a familiar face.  

[jjjmoss]

To be fair, Dany is like 16 years old at this point. I think it's realistic for a girl of that age to think more about a hot boy than her responsibilities.

 

I still don't like reading it at all, though I would say it's better than Victarion/Aeron who don't need to exist.

[GreyBunny]

I have to disagree.  As much as I dislike Dany, those Greyjoy chapters were hell.  Reek and his sister fine, but the drowned god brother guy and Victorian whatever.  Deadly boring.  I was actually glad for the Dany chapters in ADWD because at least it was a familiar face.  

 

For me Dany's Dance chapters were insufferable.  I just couldn't get past the Scrabble nightmare names the Slaver's Bay characters had which made reading a slog.  I loved the Theon Dance chapters because, as a horror fan, they were written as a classic horror tale which delighted me.  

 

I thought Asha's chapters were valuable because they showed the problems of a southern army dealing with the cold and the snow that they were woefully unprepared for.  The Unsullied and the rest of Dany's underdressed Essoi army is going to land during winter (when they bother to get to Westeros at all) and I'm going to guess life is going to be very uncomfortable for them.

[Haleth]

I'm actually looking forward to finding out what happens to Victarion, which I expect to to be quick toasting.  It's hilarious how delusional he is regarding his plans to waltz into Meereen and claim Dany.  But I guess this is too close to what happens to Quentyn so it could be considered redundant.  I hope at least one of them makes the show.

 

You know, that reminded me.  Victarion has the horn that supposedly will tame dragons.  Season 4 did not include the horn that Mance had that would supposedly take down the Wall.  It would have been a nice mention even if the plot point never went anywhere.

[ebevan91]

I'm actually looking forward to finding out what happens to Victarion, which I expect to to be quick toasting.  It's hilarious how delusional he is regarding his plans to waltz into Meereen and claim Dany.  But I guess this is too close to what happens to Quentyn so it could be considered redundant.  I hope at least one of them makes the show.

 

You know, that reminded me.  Victarion has the horn that supposedly will tame dragons.  Season 4 did not include the horn that Mance had that would supposedly take down the Wall.  It would have been a nice mention even if the plot point never went anywhere.

 

I think at least one of the horns will be brought up in season 5 now that the Wall/Castle Black should be featured more prominently on the show.

[mac123x]

I'm pretty eye-rolly about the horns, and I don't have a problem with the show skipping them entirely.  I know the show has magical elements like shadow-baby assassins and the walking dead and dragons, but mystical artifacts with magical properties just seems too... deus ex machina for my tastes.

 

I don't even know if they'll perform as advertised in the books either.  The Horn of Jorumund is something of fables.  Supposedly it awakened the giants, and can topple the Wall.  Are we supposed to take the legend literally, or is that a metaphor for something?

 

The Dragon horn makes even less sense that it will work the way Victarion thinks it will. 

"Okay, Rhaegal, Viserion, listen up!" 

[minion blows the horn]

"Now you must obey me!  What, no, not him, he's just the guy who actually blew the horn, and he's been roasted from the inside out.  But he is my thrall (or at least was until the aforementioned internal-roasting), and you are his thralls, by simple transference of authority you now are mine!  Wait, no, stop eating him and listen to me!  You are mine!  Why are you looking at me like --- oh by the Drowned God that burns!" [Victarion is Quentin-ized]

[Winnief]

 

I think at least one of the horns will be brought up in season 5 now that the Wall/Castle Black should be featured more prominently on the show.

 

Possibly.  We do need the Wall to come down at some point, to get the White Walker invasion of Westeros started-but they may not bother with the horn for that to happen.  I could see the White Walkers performing some sort of ceremony or ritual to breach the Wall.  After all on the Show, they're not afraid to show things from the White Walker perspective we couldn't see on the books.

 

 I don't think there's a chance in Seven Hells Vic is  getting any dragons in the books, (another reason I think the show won't use him at all,) and I doubt Euron will either. (He's got no Valyrian blood after all.)  I think Euron's great advantage may be storm magic and whatever other dark tricks his sorcerers can perform.  His story about the dragon horn to me was clearly bogus.  He used it to get the IB to elect him and then to get Vic and his supporters out of Westeros on a suicide mission.

[Pogojoco]

 I loved the Theon Dance chapters because, as a horror fan, they were written as a classic horror tale which delighted me.  

 

I thought Asha's chapters were valuable because they showed the problems of a southern army dealing with the cold and the snow that they were woefully unprepared for.  The Unsullied and the rest of Dany's underdressed Essoi army is going to land during winter (when they bother to get to Westeros at all) and I'm going to guess life is going to be very uncomfortable for them.

Theon is the champion of "ADWD" as far as I'm concerned. I love those chapters. A horror movie atmosphere (with the strange murders, the Frey pie, Theon hearing things, the spear wives taunting him, the Pink Letter) and the fake Arya charade (a traumatized teenage girl- who desperately wants Theon to save her) set in winter would be very atmospheric. Winter horror movies are a subgenre- The Shinning, Let the Right One In, Ravenous are all set in winter- and they can pull inspiration from that stuff. Mysticism (wendigo type myths), all day darkness, cannibalism, frost bite (I loved the image of Jeyne Poole's nose being black from frost bite), cabin fever- all good things to draw on.

 

I like this idea that Martin sort of builds on in the book- the Winterfell kids- Sansa, Jon and Theon are the ones I remember reflecting on it- have these nostalgic memories about this place. Ned really built a place that was safe for all who lived there- there was justice, people were taken care of, fed. To have it be this burned out house of horrors as "winter is coming" would be interesting. It should be in the show. 

 

Also, I want Val to come to the Wall with Mance's baby, knowing the threat to babies (that scene of the baby being transformed into a White Walker being referenced) and trade her hand in marriage for safe passage for her sister's son.  I want Val as a counterpoint to Melisandre (Old Gods vs Red God) and I want threat of Mel burning Mance's baby for king's blood to ramp up the tension for Val, Gilly and Sam. I want Jon to be offered Winterfell/Val by Stannis and have her stick around to remind him and to go off and bring another Wilding group back in (even make them women and children, referencing the baby White Walker stuff.)  She doesn't need to be there that much, but she should be there. She'd give Jon someone to talk to after they send Sam, Aemon and Gilly away. And I want Val to be played by Abbie Cornish.

 

The north stuff in ADWD is the least problematic of all the settings and I don't think they should mess around with it too much.

 

But I, unfortunately, have no power at HBO. 

Edited June 20, 2014 by Pogojoco

[jjjmoss]

For S5, I would rank the possibly interesting storylines, based on the books, as: 1. Cersei - Her book 4 climax is one of my T10 chapters of the whole series: her gloating over her "brilliant" plan, her casually going off to Margaery's cell to "comfort" her but Margaery calls her out on her shit, and then she thinks she can just slink off triumphantly till she's seized and thrown into a cell of her own. Much more of getting what's coming to her, and much less of a potentially offensive problem in staging, compared to the Walk.

2. Arya - Her chapters are very internalized thoughts heavy, with the dialogue being not very interesting and mostly interacting with people we've never met before. But I think the writers will know how to action-ize her material. What they did with pairing her up with Tywin was brilliant, and her meeting Melisandre makes me eagerly anticipate that reunion, so I have a good amount of faith in their adapting Arya.

3. Arianne - I like a scheming princess who we're supposed to root for, who formulates her own plans to be able to get what she wants. I also think the show will fast-forward through this storyline in such a way that it's more exciting.

4. Theon - Psychologically it's good, but...a lot of this is internal self-flagellation that might not translate great onscreen, and we've gotten so much Theon Torture, that his escape might feel way past due. Also not a fan of horror.

 

*Sansa and Bran also have good stuff, but have such little material left that it's nearly impossible to gauge what they're going to be doing S5.

[Winnief]

 

Theon is the champion of "ADWD" as far as I'm concerned. I love those chapters. A horror movie atmosphere (with the strange murders, the Frey pie, Theon hearing things, the spear wives taunting him, the Pink Letter) and the fake Arya charade (a traumatized teenage girl- who desperately wants Theon to save her) set in winter would be very atmospheric. Winter horror movies are a subgenre- The Shinning, Let the Right One In, Ravenous are all set in winter- and they can pull inspiration from that stuff. Mysticism (wendigo type myths), all day darkness, cannibalism, frost bite (I loved the image of Jeyne Poole's nose being black from frost bite), cabin fever- all good things to draw on.

 

Yeah, that was definitely one of the few bright spots in ADWD.  Well, we know Ramsay and Theon are on their way to Winterfell...

 

I don't think the threat is going to be Mel wanting to burn Mance's baby since they haven't included that, (though she'll probably wanna burn Mance)-but they are setting it up that Mel will try to offer up Shireen while Stannis is gone.  I pray to the Old Gods and the New that she doesn't succeed.

[Brn2bwild]

Theon is the champion of "ADWD" as far as I'm concerned. I love those chapters. A horror movie atmosphere (with the strange murders, the Frey pie, Theon hearing things, the spear wives taunting him, the Pink Letter) and the fake Arya charade (a traumatized teenage girl- who desperately wants Theon to save her) set in winter would be very atmospheric. Winter horror movies are a subgenre- The Shinning, Let the Right One In, Ravenous are all set in winter- and they can pull inspiration from that stuff. Mysticism (wendigo type myths), all day darkness, cannibalism, frost bite (I loved the image of Jeyne Poole's nose being black from frost bite), cabin fever- all good things to draw on.

 

I would love to see this as well.  Unfortunately, I don't trust D&D to deliver on that promise.  They haven't exactly been good with tension and pacing before.

[Mormegil]

So I wonder will we be getting Jaqen as Arya's teacher?

 

 

Yes he's off in Oldtown in the books but given how popular the actor was in the show I wouldn't be surprised if D+D bring him back in place of the Kindly Man (who was absent from the Casting sheet that included The Waif).

 

Maybe have the Kindly Man played by someone else in Ep1 and then have him swap faces at the end of the episode into Tom Wlaschiha.

[Winnief]

 

Yes he's off in Oldtown in the books but given how popular the actor was in the show I wouldn't be surprised if D+D bring him back in place of the Kindly Man (who was absent from the Casting sheet that included The Waif).

 

Especially given the fact they're skipping Oldtown (haven't heard anything about filming it you know)-it looks like Sam and Gilly will be staying at the Wall which frankly makes more sense for researching White Walkers anyway.

 

 Would love to see Jaqen again and have him training Arya.

[Pogojoco]

Yeah, that was definitely one of the few bright spots in ADWD.  Well, we know Ramsay and Theon are on their way to Winterfell...

 

I don't think the threat is going to be Mel wanting to burn Mance's baby since they haven't included that, (though she'll probably wanna burn Mance)-but they are setting it up that Mel will try to offer up Shireen while Stannis is gone.  I pray to the Old Gods and the New that she doesn't succeed.

They haven't included Mance's baby....yet. They've actually barely included Mance. Hinds is a big deal, ramp up the stakes, give him connections. Make it a baby thing, show. That White Walker changing the baby was cool. Threaten more babies. They could introduce his family later, much like they introduced the Reeds later than in the book. Hinds' scene with Jon Snow and with Stannis- he showed the power of that character. They'd be right to use him extensively. I rather like Harrington as Jon Snow, but I think he works much better with interesting actors/characters around him. Surround him and don't expect him to carry it.

 

And Mel does burn Mance in the book....well, "Mance" and I gotta think that's going to make it. It's a pretty vivid scene in the book. As is the scene when he is revealed as alive. 

 

I also gotta think Sam and Gilly get sent away from the Wall- Sam gets sent to become a Maester (not just research White Walkers), because Aemon is old and the Wall needs a Maester. Aemon dying on the way and telling Sam that he should've gone to seek out Dany and her dragons is a connection between the Dany stuff and the Wall. They might change the location of the training (maybe to Braavos), but I'm pretty sure they are getting sent away. Jon sending all his allies away was one of the reasons he got stabbed. 

Edited June 20, 2014 by Pogojoco

[Greta]

I've been theorizing for months that Quentyn and Tristane would be combined into one character.  It creates a nice through-line for Myrcella/Dorne/Essos/Dany while cutting down on characters. As for Arianne, I can't bring myself to care because I read someone's casting suggestion of Kim Kardashian and while that would never happen, just the thought has irrevocably tainted the character in my mind. 

 

As the rare person who actually loved Brienne's travelogue through Westeros, I hope the show keeps in a good portion of it, especially that great speech by the monk on the Quiet Isle. She can encounter some mysterious hanging corpses and then not meet with Lady Stoneheart until late in the season, with the finale being her appearing to lure Jaime off.  I do wonder if GC's Star Wars filming will have an impact on her availability.

 

As for Frey Pies, I hope they're included but only if the entire storyline is framed to clearly demonstrate what a sick fuck Wyman Manderly is and how toxic blind revenge is. (Which is what I think GRRM is actually building up to.)

[benteen]

I agree about Theon being the MVP of ADWD.  His storyline was the best part of the book and some of GRRM's best writing, despite how difficult it was at times to read.  I've always felt that if done correctly, the Reek/Theon storyline could be Emmy material.  Come on, D and D...you can't F up the awesomeness that is the North.

[Pete Martell]

Clearly Cersei's flashback is the most important (it's almost vitally important to her character and the future of King's Landing), but I can't help wishing they also had a flashback of Tyrion's childhood obsession with dragons. The AGOT scene where he, as a child, explored the dragon skulls, stared into the fire, etc. is riveting, and would set up his upcoming interaction with Dany. If they need one for Jaime, then perhaps they could flash back to his struggle with learning to read, and how Tywin shaming him the way he did helped convince Jaime to shut down emotionally.

 

I really wonder what they will do with Margaery and the Tyrells. If they are deemphasizing them because the story was never supposed to be about them, I'd be annoyed, but might understand it; it's just that I don't want to see a season of Margaery losing more IQ points and being a victim. I don't think Natalie Dormer plays that well.

 

King's Landing is going to be so empty, I wonder if we might be getting another Tyrell brother after all.

 

As the rare person who actually loved Brienne's travelogue through Westeros, I hope the show keeps in a good portion of it, especially that great speech by the monk on the Quiet Isle. She can encounter some mysterious hanging corpses and then not meet with Lady Stoneheart until late in the season, with the finale being her appearing to lure Jaime off.  I do wonder if GC's Star Wars filming will have an impact on her availability.

 

I wish they'd had some of these serious scenes with Brienne in her walkabout this season, instead of just comedy. Perhaps they're afraid viewers won't want to see the serious side of her journey.

I agree about Theon being the MVP of ADWD.  His storyline was the best part of the book and some of GRRM's best writing, despite how difficult it was at times to read.  I've always felt that if done correctly, the Reek/Theon storyline could be Emmy material.  Come on, D and D...you can't F up the awesomeness that is the North.

 

I'm wary of how the show will handle this, in part because they may not think Theon is popular enough with fans, and also because the subject matter is so horrific (after a season of criticism for rape/sexualized violence no less). I was surprised at how strong I thought Theon's characterization and material this season was, so I hope that means they may continue that next season. Alfie can sure sell it if they let him. He always does.

[Danny Franks]

I have to disagree.  As much as I dislike Dany, those Greyjoy chapters were hell.  Reek and his sister fine, but the drowned god brother guy and Victorian whatever.  Deadly boring.  I was actually glad for the Dany chapters in ADWD because at least it was a familiar face.  

 

Jeez, they were all awful. The Greyjoys are terrible characters, and there's nothing about them that is even slightly compelling. If I wanted to read a story about a bunch of amoral Viking assholes, there's are dozens of them on the shelves of any bookshop. And Dany ignoring her duties so she can fuck Daario was enough to make me want to see her get assassinated. I still want to see it.

 

For season 5 to be compelling viewing for me (season 4 wasn't), I need them to focus heavily on Dorne and on Jon's journey to becoming the Lord Commander. Oh, and on Jaime's continuing transformation. Looking at the other storylines, there really isn't much there that I care about. Dany? Good grief, no. Kings Landing? Without Tyrion or Sansa or Tywin or Jaime, it's just Cersei losing her mind. Sansa's storyline? Ugh, no. Aiden Gillen is terrible. Anything with Tyrion will probably be ruined by Aegon MacGuffin co-opting the storyline that should be Dany's.

 

So give me lots of Areo Hotah, Arianne, Arys Oakheart and Doran Martell. I'm so excited to see the reveal that the Martells have been playing the long game, all these years. No to Darkstar, though.

 

And I think seeing Jon deal with Stannis and Melisandre and the prominent members of the Nights Watch, as well as the threat of a confrontation with Ramsey, is something that could be a lot of fun to watch.

Edited June 21, 2014 by Danny Franks

[Winnief]

 

 

For season 5 to be compelling viewing for me (season 4 wasn't), I need them to focus heavily on Dorne and on Jon's journey to becoming the Lord Commander. Oh, and on Jaime's continuing transformation. Looking at the other storylines, there really isn't much there that I care about. Dany? Good grief, no. Kings Landing? Without Tyrion or Sansa or Tywin or Jaime, it's just Cersei losing her mind. Sansa's storyline? Ugh, no. Aiden Gillen is terrible. Anything with Tyrion will probably be ruined by Aegon MacGuffin co-opting the storyline that should be Dany's.

So give me lots of Areo Hotah, Arianne, Arys Oakheart and Doran Martell. I'm so excited to see the reveal that the Martells have been playing the long game, all these years. No to Darkstar, though.

And I think seeing Jon deal with Stannis and Melisandre and the prominent members of the Nights Watch, as well as the threat of a confrontation with Ramsey, is something that could be a lot of fun to watch.

 

Agree that things will be getting VERY interesting up at the Wall next season and the Martell's should be a welcome addition.

 

 I'm think Sansa's storyline might be better than you're expecting even if you don't like AG.  (Personally I don't mind him as much-even in the books Lord Baelish ain't subtle.)  ST is very, VERY good and seeing Sansa grow into a play could be a lot of fun-especially if her arc ends with her striking at Littlefinger.

 

 KL is going to feel a bit empty next season for sure-be curious to see though, who plays the HS because the right actor could do a lot with that role.  

 

As for Tyrion, I'm betting/hoping that Aegon won't make it to the show.  They've pretty much said they feel the need to make cuts somewhere, and frankly I don't see D&D letting Aegon steal Dany's thunder and also Jon's in a way too especially for a character who being an imposter without dragons will never amount to much anyway.  Unlike Martin they know better than that.  I think one reason Varys got on that ship was so they could continue to have some Varys/Tyrion interaction next season, (and so CH wouldn't have to disappear from the show for nearly a whole season)  which is always worth watching, and we'll inevitably get Tyrion/Jorah too and there's no way IG and PD can fail to be good on screen together.  Frankly, I'm feeling optimistic that the show will handle Tyrion's journey in Essos better than ADWD did-there will be no "Where do whores go?" and my guess is by the time the season ends, we'll have had the Battle of Mereen AND Tyrion will have met Dany and convinced her to sail to Westeros.  Note they're already accelerating Dany's Mereen storyline by laying some of the groundwork in Season Four.  

[jjjmoss]

They may not think Theon is popular enough with fans.

 

Well he got the 2nd most screentime in S2, when he last had emphasis POV chapters.

 

One *could* argue that he had reduced screentime in seasons 3 & 4, but given that he had zero pagetime in book 3 (or 4), he got more emphasis on the show. Certain fans were annoyed with the existence of a number of scenes which they described as endless torture porn, but I don't think D&D particularly care. If they wrote based on fan opinion, we would have gotten more Arya and less Cersei this season.

[Maximum Taco]

I'm pretty eye-rolly about the horns, and I don't have a problem with the show skipping them entirely.  I know the show has magical elements like shadow-baby assassins and the walking dead and dragons, but mystical artifacts with magical properties just seems too... deus ex machina for my tastes.

 

I don't even know if they'll perform as advertised in the books either.  The Horn of Jorumund is something of fables.  Supposedly it awakened the giants, and can topple the Wall.  Are we supposed to take the legend literally, or is that a metaphor for something?

 

The Dragon horn makes even less sense that it will work the way Victarion thinks it will. 

"Okay, Rhaegal, Viserion, listen up!" 

[minion blows the horn]

"Now you must obey me!  What, no, not him, he's just the guy who actually blew the horn, and he's been roasted from the inside out.  But he is my thrall (or at least was until the aforementioned internal-roasting), and you are his thralls, by simple transference of authority you now are mine!  Wait, no, stop eating him and listen to me!  You are mine!  Why are you looking at me like --- oh by the Drowned God that burns!" [Victarion is Quentin-ized]

 

It's not who blows the horn, it's the horn's master.

 

Moqorro says Victarion needs to "claim the horn with blood" whatever that means. It seems like a blood ritual would be needed though.

 

After that ritual it doesn't matter who blows the horn, it belongs to whoever did the blood ritual.

 

I was actually under the impression that Euron had already claimed the horn with his blood, and that's why he was cool with sending it with Victarion.

 

As for the Horn of Joramun, it was already revealed that the horn Mance had was a fake, I doubt the real horn of winter even exists. It probably just was a fable.

 

As deas ex machinas, the horns are a little annoying. But now they are kind of getting to the point where it'll be annoying if this one doesn't work too. Seriously if GRRM introduces 2 Chekov's Horns, and both are phony? That's just bad storytelling.

Edited June 21, 2014 by Maximum Taco

[Pete Martell]

Well he got the 2nd most screentime in S2, when he last had emphasis POV chapters.

 

One *could* argue that he had reduced screentime in seasons 3 & 4, but given that he had zero pagetime in book 3 (or 4), he got more emphasis on the show. Certain fans were annoyed with the existence of a number of scenes which they described as endless torture porn, but I don't think D&D particularly care. If they wrote based on fan opinion, we would have gotten more Arya and less Cersei this season.

 

True. I guess I figured they sort of had to show him more in season 2 than they might have to in season 5, since his story impacted more major characters in season 2, but I guess it depends on how season 5 is structured. You'd think season 5 would have to be very North-heavy, especially with King's Landing depleted. Not everything can be in Essos or Dorne.

Edited June 21, 2014 by Pete Martell

[benteen]

Re: Jaime in Dorne...as I said, I'd rather we get the scene in the book where Jaime dreams of his mother, winter arrives, and he burns the letter from Cersei.  That would be a great scene.  But if Jaime's spiritual battle is in Dorne, I like the idea floated by one poster that he decides that Myrcella is happier in Dorne.  This could be used as his break from Cersei.  He doesn't care how much Cersei talks about loving his kids, he knows that Myrcella is safer in Dorne and he doesn't plan to smuggle her out.  It would also do something for him as a father.  He realizes Myrcella back with Cersei would only be leading her to a toxic atmosphere and he's had enough of her.

 

I also like the idea floated around of Varys meeting up with Connington and Ageon.  As stated, it would put a familiar face to that storyline and you could still have Varys return to Westeros ahead of the Golden Company to carry out his assassinations.  Varys won't leave his precious Realm behind for long.

 

D and D mentioned that Dorne had "several admirable qualities and values."  I take that as referring to the policy that a woman can inherit, something they've seemed to ignore last season (Oberyn mentions his father instead of his mother taking him and Elia to Casterly Rock).  So I think that will definitely be addressed.  Although it wouldn't surprise me if D and D respond to Dorne's "several admirable qualities and values" by inexplicably turning someone into a rapist.  Because that's how they roll...

[Pete Martell]

Yeah when I saw that quote I immediately wondered if that meant they were going to say Dorne was secretly a hellhole.

Re: Jaime in Dorne...as I said, I'd rather we get the scene in the book where Jaime dreams of his mother, winter arrives, and he burns the letter from Cersei.  That would be a great scene.  But if Jaime's spiritual battle is in Dorne, I like the idea floated by one poster that he decides that Myrcella is happier in Dorne.  This could be used as his break from Cersei.  He doesn't care how much Cersei talks about loving his kids, he knows that Myrcella is safer in Dorne and he doesn't plan to smuggle her out.  It would also do something for him as a father.  He realizes Myrcella back with Cersei would only be leading her to a toxic atmosphere and he's had enough of her.

 

She's maimed by plots in Dorne, isn't she? I wonder if they will still include that if he chooses not to take her with him, because it would once again undercut his redemption and prove Cersei right (unless her possible escape route for Myrcella leads to the maiming).

[Pogojoco]

I'm not attached to any of the "magic horn" stuff from the books, but I have a suspicion that the Wall is going to be coming down at some point. 

 

One can't really have a massive, magical wall protecting the realm from the beasties on the other side and not have it come down at some point, no? 

[Dev F]

As for the Horn of Joramun, it was already revealed that the horn Mance had was a fake, I doubt the real horn of winter even exists. It probably just was a fable.

 

Though there was also an old, cracked horn in the cache of dragonglass at the First of the First Men, which the show, too, made a point of depicting (though not mentioning).

Edited June 21, 2014 by Dev F

[SeanC]

Note they're already accelerating Dany's Mereen storyline by laying some of the groundwork in Season Four.  

The amount of "groundwork" in season 4 for Dany's book material is really not that huge.  Hizdahr showed up for one scene, the dragons were chained (oh, and I guess Dany banged Daario).  The idea that they're going to run through Dany's entire ADWD story (and Tyrion's), plus the battle of Meereen, and the aftermath, seems a little far-fetched to me.  Particularly as Dany's story doesn't exist in a vacuum.  It's tied to the pacing of a bunch of other stories, and the rest of the show seems poised to end Season 5 at the end of AFFC/ADWD (Bran and Sansa excepted, and in Bran's case he has so little story that they really didn't have a choice).  There are many stories whose paces can be rejigged without too much trouble, but I rather doubt that Dany showing up in Westeros with her dragons and army is one of them.

[Pete Martell]

I have a feeling the season will end on Dany riding Drogon to parts unknown. Either that or that will be episode 9, and episode 10 will have her meeting Tyrion for the first time, and saying she's going to get everything back and show how a queen conquers, et al.

[Lady S.]

D and D mentioned that Dorne had "several admirable qualities and values."  I take that as referring to the policy that a woman can inherit, something they've seemed to ignore last season (Oberyn mentions his father instead of his mother taking him and Elia to Casterly Rock).  So I think that will definitely be addressed.  Although it wouldn't surprise me if D and D respond to Dorne's "several admirable qualities and values" by inexplicably turning someone into a rapist.  Because that's how they roll...

Weren't they referring to Dornish characters? Knowing D&D, I guess that means they admire the Sand Snakes' thirst for vengeance, even though that extended to a lust for the blood of Cersei's children. 

[jjjmoss]

I think there are just a lot of people who think that the only good Dany part is her dragon-riding, and hope that the rest of her ADWD stuff is gone through as quickly as possible to get to the dragon-riding and what happens after ADWD.

[anyanka323]

If Lady Stoneheart is introduced in S5, her storyline could be expanded quite a bit from two appearances, especially if Michelle Fairley returns.  Prior to some individuals' online outbursts about her nonpresence in the S4 finale, I thought that she and the Brotherhood without Banners would be in S5 as agents of vengence for the Starks and the North.  It would be interesting seeing her crash Ramsay's wedding to the fake Arya and restage the Red Wedding with the Boltons et al as victims. 

 

I wonder how they are going to handle fake Arya and Jeyne Poole, since she only appeared in one episode.  The character of Myranda, one of Ramsay's female companions, may substitute for Jeyne as the faux Arya.  That would change the dynamic of that relationship since Myranda was very enthusiastic about Ramsay's passtimes. 

[SeanC]

The character of Myranda, one of Ramsay's female companions, may substitute for Jeyne as the faux Arya.

That would never work (even apart from her being way too old to plausibly be Arya).  Fake Arya's whole point, character-wise, is to be an innocent that Theon saves.  Myranda is a cartoonish psychopath.

[Pete Martell]

I don't really know if D&D would change their plans for Lady Stoneheart because of people complaining online. 

 

I guess fake Arya's role would depend on where they're going with the story. If it's still about Theon finding some redemption, then she may still be a victim. If it's about the scam, then she may not be. I don't know if Myranda is supposed to still even be alive, as there was a cut scene of her slapping Ramsay during sex (the sex scene in episode 6), which has led some to think he killed her and the show cut those scenes because of backlash over the sept scene and the Craster's Keep scenes soon after.

[Lady S.]

There's no reason to suggest a person not cast must be replaced by an existing character when the show has a history of bringing in characters later that people worried had been written out, and that was clearly not a complete casting list. If Ramsay's marriage happens, it will be with Jeyne Poole, no existing character makes any sense impersonating Arya.

Edited June 22, 2014 by Lady S.

[Pete Martell]

I guess people may be thinking of things like the show having Locke going to try to track down/kill Bran.

[Haleth]

Reintroducing Jeyne Poole would be easy enough with Roose telling Ramsey who she is.  It's really not necessary for viewers to remember her from that season 1 episode.

[Pete Martell]

If they do use Jeyne Poole then I wonder if they will have her interact with Sansa in any way. I don't think the book did so I guess the show wouldn't either.

[Pogojoco]

If they do use Jeyne Poole then I wonder if they will have her interact with Sansa in any way. I don't think the book did so I guess the show wouldn't either.

I don't think they need to. They didn't in the book. All it would take is a few lines in a scene- even Cersei questioning her about Winterfell to establish that she knew Sansa and then her promising not to tell who she is. I think it should be someone from Winterfell, as I liked the dynamic of Jeyne Poole remembering Theon as he was and trying to use that to rouse him into rescuing her. 

 

And I'd be ok with Dany wandering out in the wilderness with her dragon for a while. It's a different look for her. Even her getting picked up by a Khalessar, like she does in the book. I thought it was kind of BS when she and Tyrion didn't meet in ADWD, 

Edited June 22, 2014 by Pogojoco

[benteen]

I don't really know if D&D would change their plans for Lady Stoneheart because of people complaining online. 

 

I guess fake Arya's role would depend on where they're going with the story. If it's still about Theon finding some redemption, then she may still be a victim. If it's about the scam, then she may not be. I don't know if Myranda is supposed to still even be alive, as there was a cut scene of her slapping Ramsay during sex (the sex scene in episode 6), which has led some to think he killed her and the show cut those scenes because of backlash over the sept scene and the Craster's Keep scenes soon after.

 

Yeah, I wondered what happened with this scene too.  The next time we see Ramsay he's coming to fight Yara with blood all over his chest.  He could have been fighting but Ramsay killing Myranda would be in character...even though he doesn't like to kill people slowly.

[Pete Martell]

I don't think they need to. They didn't in the book. All it would take is a few lines in a scene- even Cersei questioning her about Winterfell to establish that she knew Sansa and then her promising not to tell who she is. I think it should be someone from Winterfell, as I liked the dynamic of Jeyne Poole remembering Theon as he was and trying to use that to rouse him into rescuing her. 

 

I guess what I was thinking was that since Sansa is going to have all new material next season (aside from if they do the Harry story), they might end up having some moment of what would happen if Jeyne (forced to be Arya) met Sansa (pretending to be Alayne) at some point if Sansa and Baelish get more involved with Winterfell's fate. 

 

Of course I don't even know if they'll have Jeyne. I was a little surprised at how prominent she was in the first book (in Sansa's chapters anyway), as I'd seen the show first, and in that she just vanished after the pilot.

 

There's a scene in the book where they gossip for hours and then go and eat some pie after they run out of lemon cakes. A scene like that might be a good way to contrast what they were and what they now are, but I guess the show won't really do a lot of flashbacks outside of the Cersei one.

Edited June 22, 2014 by Pete Martell

[benteen]

Jeyne was another one of those characters who disappeared early like Benjen and I wondered what happened to her.  After all, she was the only other survivor of the Winterfell slaughter not counting Arya.  I missed the references to her in ASOS and AFFC and was surprised when she was revealed to be "Arya."  I still think you can introduce her easily enough.  A few lines of dialogue should cover it.

[Avaleigh]

Looking back I think it was probably a mistake to have not established Jeyne as a character early on. The name drop wasn't enough. But thinking on it now I feel like there are a few things they could have done with her character that wouldn't have taken too much time but would still have given us a better idea of who she was and why Theon might care. Plus it could have been interesting to compare her journey with the journies of the Stark girls to remind us that they're still lucky in certain ways even though their lives have both taken such terrible turns. We could have seen her first as a friend to Sansa, maybe we could have observed a look of envy early on as Joffrey was still attempting to be charming at that point; we maybe could have seen her tease Arya ; we'd see her being taken to LF and then maybe get a scene of him explaining how she can make herself useful to him in terms of getting personal details on Sansa in addition to getting the implication that she'd have to "train" at the brothel.

I just think it's too bad that the Unsullied audience won't have a sense of the relationships between the three girls prior to them all leaving Winterfell for them to truly see how odd and unsettling it will be for Jeyne to be forced to pretend to be Arya and having Theon as the unwilling witness to it all. It's a disturbing scenario whether Jeyne had been intimately acquainted with the Stark family or not but the fact that she also lived in the castle and probably envied Sansa (and Arya) on some level, and would have likely freaked out with happiness if she'd been told back then that she'd one day be the Lady of Winterfell--for it toall turn out the way it has...lol I'm imagining Sansa, Jeyne, and Arya having their fortunes told by Maggy and Jeyne being told she'll be the Lady of Winterfell one day. (Hehe, think how annoyed Arya would have been in such a scenario.) It's alsokind of fun to imagine how Sansa would have reacted upon being told that she would one day marry the Imp while she was under the impression that she'd marry her handsome prince Joffrey.

[benteen]

Someone brought it up it would be fascinating if Sansa ever discovered what LF did to Jeyne.

[Danny Franks]

It doesn't really matter if it's Jeyne or some unknown, unfortunate girl, does it? The situation she finds herself in is unimaginable (and I really wish GRRM hadn't imagined it, personally. One of the many issues I had with ADWD was that the whole Ramsay storyline just felt like GRRM was trying to create the most vile character imaginable, and ended up just making him ludicrous), and whether Theon knew her before or not doesn't seem to really matter that much.

 

There simply wouldn't have been enough time to establish Jeyne and then have her disappear for four seasons, only to expect fans to remember her now. But I'm sure that D&D will dwell on all the disgusting things Ramsay will make her do, and probably even come up with a few of their own.

[Lady S.]

It's really not important for the audience to know Jeyne from s1, it's not like some unknown innocent girl being rescued from Ramsay by Theon is nbd. In the show's story where Jeyne didn't go to King's Landing, she would have stayed at Winterfell, where all the womenfolk became Ramsay's captives at the Dreadfort anyway. And even so Theon can still recognize her as Sansa's friend without the show establishing that friendship. GRRM never really gave Jeyne a voice either, it's Theon's story. D&D love Theon and have even before the tortureporn so I think they'd want to give Theon his own redemption and show at least some of Ramsay's grossness.

 

I guess people may be thinking of things like the show having Locke going to try to track down/kill Bran.

Which didn't change the story at all since that plot was pure filler and Locke was killed quick enough. Myranda marrying Ramsay would be the most major substitution yet since it affects Theon's escape and Jon's assassination. A different Dagmer-for-Ramsay-as-Reek, Locke-for-Vargo Hoat, Gendry-for-Edric Storm, and even Talisa-for-Jeyne Westerling just do not have the same impact as Ramsay's bride not being an innocent girl who can be passed off as Arya. Edited June 23, 2014 by Lady S.

[Pete Martell]

Good points.

 

I feel like the show has dialed back Ramsay's bile (which may not be a bad thing, as I don't get the impression from a lot of book fans I see online that they find him that terrifying or compelling , and D&D trying to do what GRRM did would be a trainwreck given their issues with presenting violence against women), and zeroed in more on his relationship with Theon, who some fans feel deserves torture. So if they do have him torturing and raping Jeyne, then I hope they will manage to make her character stand out for viewers, so she won't just be seen as a cipher, like Craster's wives.

Edited June 23, 2014 by Pete Martell

[benteen]

It's really not important for the audience to know Jeyne from s1, it's not like some unknown innocent girl being rescued from Ramsay by Theon is nbd. In the show's story where Jeyne didn't go to King's Landing, she would have stayed at Winterfell, where all the womenfolk became Ramsay's captives at the Dreadfort anyway. And even so Theon can still recognize her as Sansa's friend without the show establishing that friendship. GRRM never really gave Jeyne a voice either, it's Theon's story. D&D love Theon and have even before the tortureporn so I think they'd want to give Theon his own relationship and show at least some of Ramsay's grossness.

 

Which didn't change the story at all since that plot was pure filler and Locke was killed quick enough. Myranda marrying Ramsay would be the most major substitution yet since it affects Theon's escape and Jon's assassination. A different Dagmer-for-Ramsay-as-Reek, Locke-for-Vargo Hoat, Gendry-for-Edric Storm, and even Talisa-for-Jeyne Westerling just do not have the same impact as Ramsay's bride not being an innocent girl who can be passed off as Arya.

 

You know, it's true...on the show, Jeyne can be some girl who stayed at Winterfell and was found by Ramsay and his ilk.  It would save having to explain things.

[Mormegil]

So I wonder will we be getting Jaqen as Arya's teacher?

 

 

Yes he's off in Oldtown in the books but given how popular the actor was in the show I wouldn't be surprised if D+D bring him back in place of the Kindly Man (who was absent from the Casting sheet that included The Waif).

 

Maybe have the Kindly Man played by someone else in Ep1 and then have him swap faces at the end of the episode into Tom Wlaschiha.

 

Seems like I may have been correct.

[angelwoody]

I want more Hound!  He's the character that I'm most worried about.  

[Lady S.]

I hope it's just Jaqen's face being put on by the Kindly Man, not that he's the same person.