Selling Sunset - General Discussion

[Marley]

Finally! I feel like it’s been forever since the last season. I need some more trash tv to watch.

[Stan39]

2 hours ago, Atlanta said:

Next season they won't be wearing clothes. LOL

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-10113041/Selling-Sunset-Stars-hit-Netflix-announce-Season-4-air-date.html

Ugh. I’ll binge every episode but I’d be more excited if they teased “less drama” ☹️

[Atlanta]

Heather and Tarek are married. Her dress is trashy.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-10124579/Selling-Sunset-star-Heather-Rae-Young-marries-Tarek-El-Moussa-extravagant-nuptials.html

[GaT]

3 hours ago, Atlanta said:

Heather and Tarek are married. Her dress is trashy.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-10124579/Selling-Sunset-star-Heather-Rae-Young-marries-Tarek-El-Moussa-extravagant-nuptials.html

I dislike tops like that, they look like they're sliding off, not like they're supposed to be that way.. In general, the piece under the sheer looks like a girdle.

[Atlanta]

OMG, GaT! It does look like a girdle. LOL

[Scarlett45]

On 10/24/2021 at 10:36 AM, Atlanta said:

Heather and Tarek are married. Her dress is trashy.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-10124579/Selling-Sunset-star-Heather-Rae-Young-marries-Tarek-El-Moussa-extravagant-nuptials.html

I think the dress could’ve been really pretty- if the bottom was opaque. I like illusion necklines, but you do it on the top or the bottom, not both. Also I would’ve made the cups just a wee bit bigger. 

[Atlanta]

There will be a "Selling The OC."

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-10179339/Selling-Sunset-gets-spinoff-titled-Selling-OC-Jason-Oppenheim-expands-company.html

[GaT]

21 hours ago, Atlanta said:

There will be a "Selling The OC."

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-10179339/Selling-Sunset-gets-spinoff-titled-Selling-OC-Jason-Oppenheim-expands-company.html

Well, now we know the reason Jason left, this must have been in the works for a while. 

I was surprised by the promo pic for the Emmy nom, they really put Chrishell out front, I guess they consider her the star of the show?

[hula-la]

Netflix just announced a spin-off, Selling Tampa.  https://www.essence.com/entertainment/meet-the-cast-of-selling-tampa/#1124432

[Marley]

I’m barely holding on to caring about Selling Sunset lol so I don’t know about all the other ones. 

Edited November 23, 2021 by Marley

[Irlandesa]

On 11/9/2021 at 2:50 PM, GaT said:

Well, now we know the reason Jason left, this must have been in the works for a while. 

I think it was Brett who left the group.  Or "left."  I'm not entirely sure how the split is structured but I think both are going to be in the next season of Selling Sunset.  I'm not sure about the O.C.

[LakeGal]

I started watching the new season.  I still don't like Christine.  

[CattyK]

6 hours ago, LakeGal said:

I started watching the new season.  I still don't like Christine.  

I watched the first episode.  Seems like the show is starting the season with a focus on “evil” Christine and going out of their way to make sure we don’t like Christine!  First Mary and Chrishell went over the history with her in case we forgot, then Christine just happened to show up when the new realtor was there, to mark her territory.  To me the worst was when she met Jason at the house.  She looked like some kind of monster towering over Jason in that ridiculous outfit with the weird extended shoulders. Everything about her was over the top from the hair to the rhinestone lapels to the shoes so high she can’t walk up stairs.  
 

[Marley]

I was into watching season 4 but now it’s past when it was released and idk if I even care. Maybe on a hangover day I’ll watch it lol.

[Ms Blue Jay]

This is the first time I don't think Mary's so hot.  I think she did her lips again and they're all swollen from the procedure.  Obviously Christine did her lips again but I'm really happy she doesn't hide it.  She's completely transparent about her Botox addiction in episode 2.  I feel like Maya looks differently too.

God I can't stand the music on this show.  It feels very fake like somebody was asked to make a bunch of songs based on the latest memes.

Wow until Episode 3 I forgot that Brett and Jason were two separate people because they only showed one of them until that point.

Edited November 25, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[CattyK]

2 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

God I can't stand the music on this show.  It feels very fake like somebody was asked to make a bunch of songs based on the latest memes.

Oh boy I absolutely HATE the music!   I’m more of a Motown/classic rock/blues fan, so I thought maybe it was just me.  Your description of it is brilliant, it is like a meme.  
 

also LOL on the brothers, they might as well be one person for all the personality either one seems to have!  

[Cheezwiz]

2 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Wow until Episode 3 I forgot that Brett and Jason were two separate people because they only showed one of them until that point.

I cannot tell Brett & Jason apart at ALL.

It looks like both Mary and Maya messed around with their lips - it was especially noticeable on Maya in episode three.

I haven't progressed through the whole season yet, so it will be interesting to see how the two additional realtors will shake up the dynamic. I'm glad Davina is mostly gone.

It seems Christine is deliberately attempting to dress in a way that makes her look as ridiculous as possible. I couldn't believe that transparent get-up she was wearing while touring the luxury house with one of the bros.

[Ms Blue Jay]

1 minute ago, Cheezwiz said:

I cannot tell Brett & Jason apart at ALL.

It looks like both Mary and Maya messed around with their lips - it was especially noticeable on Maya in episode three.

Thank you!  Her eyes look weird to me, too!  I can't believe she has time to get work done in between pregnancies!  She was so naturally pretty, it's such a shame.  

4 minutes ago, CattyK said:

Oh boy I absolutely HATE the music!   I’m more of a Motown/classic rock/blues fan, so I thought maybe it was just me.  Your description of it is brilliant, it is like a meme.  

It's like fucked up spoken word.  They don't even bother to rhyme anything.  It's like "Cars.  Shots.  Dressing.  Gowns.  Houses.  Yeah bitch, let's go."   ??????????????

Edited November 25, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[Cheezwiz]

2 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

God I can't stand the music on this show.  It feels very fake like somebody was asked to make a bunch of songs based on the latest memes.

Yes! THIS! It's like it's the canned background music equivalent of an Instagram selfie account. I bet they have a barrel of pre-fabricated music clips they just pull from for scene intros and transitions. It's super annoying.

[CattyK]

So are you all saying the “music” is created for the show?  

[Cheezwiz]

1 minute ago, CattyK said:

So are you all saying the “music” is created for the show?  

I don't know if it is or not, and am too lazy to research it, but it definitely has a canned pre-fabricated feel, and logistically would be a much cheaper way to insert music rather than getting rights from actual recording artists.

[Stan39]

1 hour ago, Cheezwiz said:

I don't know if it is or not, and am too lazy to research it, but it definitely has a canned pre-fabricated feel, and logistically would be a much cheaper way to insert music rather than getting rights from actual recording artists.

This reminds me of the time the Real Housewives first met pretentious David Foster who of course wanted to talk about himself, and the housewives wanted to kiss his butt, so they all started singing and playing When the Saints Go Marching In because they were too cheap to secure the rights to something you might actually listen to. And everyone pretended it was great. 

[CattyK]

1 hour ago, Cheezwiz said:

I don't know if it is or not, and am too lazy to research it, but it definitely has a canned pre-fabricated feel, and logistically would be a much cheaper way to insert music rather than getting rights from actual recording artists.

That makes sense.  Thanks!  

[Misslindsey]

15 hours ago, LakeGal said:

I started watching the new season.  I still don't like Christine.  

I have actually finished the season and I still do not like Christine either. I don't find her antics amusing. She is definitely calculating though. Christine managed to get Vanessa on her side from the start. It also, seemed like she did things when not filming to some of the other cast members. I just get tired of her victim mentality and how it is always someone's fault but hers. I would roll my eyes at all her ridiculous outfits.

I would be fine without a villain on this show. I actually do not mind boring, but that is probably just me.

I was not a fan of Davina's new sense of style this season. I was glad for minimal Davina though.

[LakeGal]

Mary has really done strange things to her face.  I also think her hair looks bad at times.  In fact several of the ladies have bad hair.  I wish they would stop petting their hair.  

I finished the season.  I noticed they often made it look like Jason was jealous when watching Chrishelle.  They are getting ready for the next season and that relationship.

[junejunehannah]

On 10/24/2021 at 11:36 AM, Atlanta said:

Heather and Tarek are married. Her dress is trashy.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-10124579/Selling-Sunset-star-Heather-Rae-Young-marries-Tarek-El-Moussa-extravagant-nuptials.html

I do not understand ANYTHING about this dress? Was it custom made?! It is terrible! 

[weaver]

23 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

This is the first time I don't think Mary's so hot.  I think she did her lips again and they're all swollen from the procedure.  Obviously Christine did her lips again but I'm really happy she doesn't hide it.  She's completely transparent about her Botox addiction in episode 2.  I feel like Maya looks differently too.

God I can't stand the music on this show.  It feels very fake like somebody was asked to make a bunch of songs based on the latest memes.

Wow until Episode 3 I forgot that Brett and Jason were two separate people because they only showed one of them until that point.

Mary’s lips look very unsymmetrical.   Maya did something; I thought her looks were perfect last year.   Avanza’s hair was much better before.   I can’t stand how they all play with their hair.

The show is fun, but they are dragging out the Christine drama way too much.  I’d rather see more of the homes.   The brokers rarely seem to ask detailed questions when first looking at a home .  It’s all “wow, this is a big dressing room,” “I love the flooring.”   I’d like more balance as in Million Dollar Listing.  Also, where does Christine’s current husband stand in all this.  We don’t see him.  Gotta replay Christine’s wedding episode of last season.

[zenithwit]

I'm only one episode into the new season so far but had to chime in on Mary and Chrishell complaining about how they found out about Christine's pregnancy through social media.  Christine doesn't owe anybody a personal text or other communication to let them know about her pregnancy (except for maybe her husband).  I get that Christine is supposed our "villain" but I didn't see what the big deal was there.

Edited November 26, 2021 by zenithwit

[TrixieTrue]

When I meet people for the first time, I very rarely say something negative about someone else. I think it makes such a bad first impression. (Of me, not the person I'm talking about). I know it's for the show, but it makes everyone look bad. 

I thought Davina's apology was a pretty good one. She said her comment was thoughtless and offensive and that her intention wasn't to hurt Crishell. Crishell doesn't have to accept it and is valid in still feeling hurt. Davina's fashion is pretty offensive. She looked more normal compared to everyone before and has gone in the other direction, way over the top.   

[Ms Blue Jay]

I cannot believe how snobbish Jason and Brett were to 

Spoiler

Simu Liu

when he showed up in the real estate office.  I wonder if they feel stupid about that now or would have acted just the same.

Edited November 27, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[Misslindsey]

7 hours ago, TrixieTrue said:

I thought Davina's apology was a pretty good one. She said her comment was thoughtless and offensive and that her intention wasn't to hurt Crishell. Crishell doesn't have to accept it and is valid in still feeling hurt. Davina's fashion is pretty offensive. She looked more normal compared to everyone before and has gone in the other direction, way over the top. 

I did not think Davina's apology was all that sincere, but at least at this point she seems to be trying to maybe be less obnoxious. I concur about her fashion this season. I did not think she dressed horribly before. She has a ways to go to compete with Christine's ridiculousness, but she is heading in that direction.

The last couple of seasons I always thought Amanza had Christine's number, so it was strange to see her be so chummy with her this season. Amanza did have a lot going on about her ex. I felt bad for her and her kids regarding it all.

[Ms Blue Jay]

I don't know how I feel about this show being Everybody Hates Christine.  It's not fun to watch.  Whatever, not that I've really "enjoyed" this show since the first season anyway.

I don't get how Christine is "terrorizing" people and I think that's a bit much.  The only person I've seen exhibit really bad behaviour is how Davina acted towards Chrishell and at least she apologized for that.  It was funny how Chrishell didn't want to accept it.  

[CattyK]

I watched ep 2 of the new season tonight.  I can only stand one ep at a time.  The only socializing any of the women do is to quiz each other and get updated on the state of Christines feuds.  Her dress at the shower was ugly, with that fur/fringe or whatever hanging down below her belly.  Her husband might as well be cardboard cutout for all he adds to the action.

I guess Emma that’s joining the team is THE Emma?  Jason was like a little kid begging her for her answer.  Her fashion was over the top with more of the curved extended shoulders, and the off the shoulder mini-mini dress.  
 

i’d be interested to watch a show about women realtors doing their actual jobs in this market.  I’d love to see some upscale fashion that actually works for business, rather than sexualizing and infantilizing the wearer.  And a minimum of artificial drama.  Like somebody said, more like Million Dollar Listing.  

[CattyK]

Oh also, I have news for Mary: even though you WANT!! to give a gift to the baby despite being estranged from its mom, it doesn’t matter because the baby will be incapable of knowing anything about the gift for several years.  So you can stop crying and wiping your eyes on the restaurant napkin.  

[Irlandesa]

I binged this yesterday in one sitting.  For whatever reason, it was exactly what I needed and I enjoyed it quite a bit. 

I actually felt there was more real estate this season than in seasons past where I sometimes felt they just kept repeating the same darn properties. Maybe it helped that Chrishell was house hunting herself and we got to see Jason's new home which I loved.

On 11/25/2021 at 1:55 PM, Ms Blue Jay said:

Wow until Episode 3 I forgot that Brett and Jason were two separate people because they only showed one of them until that point.

They were both at Christine's baby shower in Ep. 2 but I think this was the first season where I think I saw some differences but I still wouldn't be able to tell you who is who.  All I know is that 90% of the time it's Jason doing the talking.  Except it Ep. 8 this season where it was all Brett.

On 11/25/2021 at 10:35 PM, Misslindsey said:

I don't find her antics amusing. She is definitely calculating though. Christine managed to get Vanessa on her side from the start. It also, seemed like she did things when not filming to some of the other cast members.

Vanessa seemed to try to be on everyone's side and wanting to see the best in everyone even after some of the things the women said about Christine turned into things Vanessa saw herself.

And I definitely think a lot of the feelings about Christine were from stories Christine gave, or sold, to the press. 

There are some great conspiracy theories about her pregnancy.  And while I have always thought rumors about people pretending to be pregnant are silly, there's just something about Christine that could make me buy that she'd use a surrogate but pretend she had actually given birth.

Cuz that birthing story she told "they told him he had to choose between me or the baby" was absolute bullshit. And while I've known women who did recover their body back remarkably fast after birth--that birth wasn't a traumatic C-section.

9 hours ago, weaver said:

Also, where does Christine’s current husband stand in all this.  We don’t see him.

He was in a few episodes. Notably the finale where he basically said all the women were jealous just because they didn't want to just "move on." And he shaded Chrisell because her husband basically kicked her out.

But the worst villain of the season for me is Tarek's friend "Robert" because I felt the position he put Chrisell in so much.  Pulling her down when she's having fun dancing with her girlfriends and then making her go over him to crawl out of the booth--you know he was hoping she'd slip and sit on his lap.  That icky situation felt like the most real thing on the show.

[Cheezwiz]

4 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I've known women who did recover their body back remarkably fast after birth--that birth wasn't a traumatic C-section.

She's been wearing a lot of tummy baring outfits lately, and I'm all like... hmmm... where's your scar? A c-section is major surgery and if even if you're super-fit, it takes awhile to bounce back. So conspiracy rumours about a surrogate don't surprise me. It also wouldn't surprise me if she fabricated the "I almost died" story to drum up sympathy from viewers.

I'm also a bit puzzled that Amanza is all chummy with Christine this season - she seemed pretty skeptical of her in prior seasons (and even confronted her at a party?) so this about-face seems odd and perhaps producer driven? I feel bad about her custody situation (if her ex had completely checked out, who the hell called CPS on her?)- how sad for her kids.

Ugh. Davina's back. Looks like a lightbulb finally went on for her about Christine's loose relationship with the truth.

4 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

the worst villain of the season for me is Tarek's friend "Robert" because I felt the position he put Chrisell in so much.  Pulling her down when she's having fun dancing with her girlfriends and then making her go over him to crawl out of the booth--you know he was hoping she'd slip and sit on his lap. 

That was so creepy and gross. The minute I saw him, my reaction was ew, noooooo... that guy had dumb-ass dude-bro written all over him. Yuck. If I ever thought that a couple of friends who hadn't met might hit it off romantically, I would actually never mention it to either one of them - I'd just have a gathering and let things happen (or not happen) organically. Those kind of set-up situations that take place in front of everyone with everyone knowing, watching and anticipating are incredibly awkward. 

 

14 hours ago, weaver said:

Also, where does Christine’s current husband stand in all this.  We don’t see him.

We have seen Christine's husband in several episodes, but he never speaks. He seems to be relegated to a role of background extra - he's basically the Silent Bob of Sunset significant others.

Side note: I never watched Flip or Flop, so I don't have a read on what he was like on that show, but Tarek seems like kind of a tool. 

[pasdetrois]

I was looking forward to indulging myself with some fun reality TV on Black Friday, but this latest season is badly produced. I had to FF through some of it.

The rent-a-music is annoying. They all sound clueless with their inane chatter.

Mary's face is so f****d up that she slurs her speech. And she still exhibits the odd jerky body movements.

I'm out.

[TrixieTrue]

I finished the final episode. There was a big "confrontation" in the last episode. I'll put my thoughts in spoilers since not everyone has seen the episode. 

 

Spoiler

There was a party and Christine came about three hours late. This put her, imo, at an advantage, because she was sober and everyone else had been drinking. She walked up to the group and Heather greeted her in a friendly manner, Mary, Crishell, and Emma basically smiled and looked away. I don't remember what Maya and Davina did, but I don't think they were rude. 

Heather said she wanted to talk to Christine with the group and Christine responded breezily, "I'm good." Heather was pissed and walked out, ranting about Christine. 

Several people approached Christine, whose husband was always by her side, holding her hand. She basically kept saying she wanted to move on and wasn't going to focus on the past. She also reverted to a more childish voice when she spoke to her husband, saying things like "They're monsters. How could they be so mean." 

 I know it's a tv show, but I just wish someone would say "Look, we're both professionals and we'll work together, but there's no need to push a friendship." 

 I also wish (taking this out of spoilers since it's been happening for several episodes), that Vanessa would just butt out and stop trying to be a peacemaker. It's none of her business. 

I feel for Amanza and hope she and her kids are okay.  

And I wish everyone would look into more professional attire. You're showing houses, not going to a club. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

Last episode, not at ALL a spoiler --

When the women are trying on dresses:

Mary looks amazing in that gold dress!  Oh my god.  Her boobs look real whereas Chrishell's REALLLLLY don't.  LOL

I do think Heather is gorgeous but she was such a non-entity this season.  

The way they only hire women for this show and they all look a certain "way" make Jason and Brett kind of seem like pimps.

I just found out that Chrishell is 40.  I don't know. It seems like she should be above a lot of this shit.  Who cares.  Let go and who cares.  I don't even remember what Christine did to her.  And what season was it?

Edited November 28, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[Ms Blue Jay]

10 hours ago, pasdetrois said:

Mary's face is so f****d up that she slurs her speech. And she still exhibits the odd jerky body movements.

I really heard her slurring in the last episode.

[Atlanta]

6 hours ago, TrixieTrue said:

 And I wish everyone would look into more professional attire. You're showing houses, not going to a club. 

This. ^ I would never hire an agent who looked like he or she was about to head to the club. 

[Stan39]

On 11/26/2021 at 8:29 PM, Ms Blue Jay said:

I cannot believe how snobbish Jason and Brett were to 

  Reveal spoiler

Simu Liu

when he showed up in the real estate office.  I wonder if they feel stupid about that now or would have acted just the same.

I haven’t watched this latest season yet, but it’s been my experience that no one on this show is self aware or possesses humility. 

2 minutes ago, Atlanta said:

This. ^ I would never hire an agent who looked like he or she was about to head to the club. 

Well, there was that one guy who hired Mayra just to keep hitting on her. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

3 hours ago, Stan39 said:

I haven’t watched this latest season yet, but it’s been my experience that no one on this show is self aware or possesses humility. 

Chrishell was very humble and self aware with him, and I am not even a fan of hers.  The contrast was striking, which is why I commented on it.

[Irlandesa]

6 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I just found out that Chrishell is 40.  I don't know. It seems like she should be above a lot of this shit.  Who cares.  Let go and who cares.  I don't even remember what Christine did to her.  And what season was it?

I think this is more about what happened in the year between Seasons 3 and 4 than what happened in Season 3.  Christine spent the year telling stories to the press about Chrishell's love life (which she says weren't true) and making comments about Heather's relationship with Tarek which is why Heather wants nothing to do with her either.

It's almost a "blink and you'll miss it" moment but they showed screen grabs of quite a few of those headlines.

So I don't have a problem with Chrishell just saying "nope" to anything but a professional relationship with Christine. Christine isn't apologizing for doing that.  She's not admitting she's wrong.  She just wants everyone to move on from the past.

On 11/26/2021 at 3:07 PM, zenithwit said:

Christine doesn't owe anybody a personal text or other communication to let them know about her pregnancy (except for maybe her husband).  I get that Christine is supposed our "villain" but I didn't see what the big deal was there.

I do think Mary might have felt some hurt due to her previous closeness with Christine but if I remember that conversation correctly, they weren't necessarily mad they found out that way.  They were surprised because she was kind of far along when they found out. 

 

[snarts]

Binged the new season over the last two days, one thing that stood out was how scary thin ALL the women are.  It was nice to see them actually eating at times because otherwise I'd assume they don't. 

Calling total BS on Christine's pregnancy story. She obviously used a surrogate and not sure why she won't admit it.  Then again, she lies about so much, it's ridiculous.  

As someone who watches for the house porn, the constant discussions about Christine were tedious.  Can they at least walk around the properties while they talk?

Emma reminds me a Megan Housman from Rock of Love. The story of the guy from 5 or more years ago that she may or may not still be involved with?  The one that Christine & Heather also dated?  Yeah, I'm convinced that he was invented by the writers/producers. And he hasn't yet been cast...stay tuned for season 5. 

[howiveaddict]

Christine is a liar mc liar.  I believe she had a surrogate and totally made up the c section story.  Probably why she wasn't around the women too much when she was pregnant.  Who cares if you had a surrogate. In the words of the loathsome LIsa Rinna "own it!"  

I hate her husband, who looks like the twins, but taller and with a beard, saying the other women are jealous of Christine.

I feel like most of the homes look alike. Big boxes with sliding doors on hills.  I have trouble telling them apart.  I do like Chrishelle's new house and also the Calabasis house that was for sale.  

[Ms Blue Jay]

Does anyone have the listing of the house that BrettorJason stole out from under her?  LOL

[CattyK]

In episode 5 and 6, Christine wears these print legging outfits that are about the most horrible garments I’ve ever seen.  I guess it’s good that at least she acknowledges she looks like a “ho”.  

at the dog party I laughed when Mary said Christine shouldn’t bring drama to a party, the drama should be reserved for the office!  

 

[zenithwit]

Ok so I'm five episodes in now and the part that is really hitting me hard is how in the face the show is being with "OMG! Look at Christine's post-baby body!!!!!".  As someone who had a very routine non-traumatic birth, I was a hot mess for weeks (if not months) afterwards.  I know that Christine is trying to succeed in an industry that expects women to magically bounce back to "normal" after having a baby so part of me doesn't blame her for perpetuating that stereotype but I still find the whole thing frustrating.  And even if the pregnancy rumors are true, Christine still has a newborn and taking care of a newborn is a round the clock job (literally).  What we're not seeing is the army of nannies, trainers, hair/makeup artists, assistants, etc that enabled Christine to crash a dog's birthday party with a skin-tight designer outfit and a full beat.  It would be refreshing for celebrities/other rich & influential people were honest about their support systems that help them continue their day jobs after starting a family.

On a completely different note:  I keep thinking Emma is Heather.  I think it's the hair.

[GaT]

Why do people think Christine used a surrogate & faked her pregnancy?

I probably should have watched the whole thing before posting, but I'm only on the 3rd episode so I'll just keep adding stuff

Emma (who should eat a cookie already) has worked for the Oppenheim group since 2018, so the show trying to pretend she's new is ridiculous.  

Vanessa looks like someone who doesn't have black hair (maybe a blonde?) but who keeps eluding me & driving me crazy.

Edited November 29, 2021 by GaT