Supernatural Ending

[gonzosgirrl]

57 minutes ago, FlickChick said:

Do share the author - it sounds like a great read.

She did, in the fanfic thread.

[7kstar]

1 hour ago, FlickChick said:

Do share the author - it sounds like a great read.

It's been shared in fanfic thread and go up in this thread it's there too. 

I will add that it was that fanfic writer that got me into Supernatural.  I loved her love for the show so I checked it out.  It was at the end of season 3.  So for me it was a bookend to the series, if she started my love for Dean Winchester and the brothers then it was fitting for her to wrap it up for me.  🙂

Edited November 26, 2020 by 7kstar

[Pondlass1]

 

[Myrelle]

1 hour ago, Pondlass1 said:

 

Wow.

That was just so sad to me.

Clearly he was "talked in" to "liking" the finale and simply(and as usual) did his best to make it work.

God Bless him.

He really is the Ultimate Professional where it concerns his craft. 

I'm just so happy and relieved, though, that he and Danneel have decided to form their own production company after the way everything went down at the end of Supernatural. 

And I kind of hope that he's not totally trusting Kripke, at this point, and FWIW, because AFAIC,  it was Jensen's instinct that was right on in this case and it had very little to do with him being "too close" to his character. 

If anything, and again, AFAIC, that closeness with his character(a character that he gave life to, and sorry, far more than even Kripke did) was what made that endind sit so wrong with him in the first place.

And no one is ever going to convince me that he truly "loved" that ending.

No one-not even videos of he, himself,  saying that-not ever.

He said his genuine truth about it all here in this video, IMO and AFAIC-and again it was often what he didn't say about it, that added the most weight to what he did say about it.

And it just left me feeling sad for him and for many in the fandom-and not sad in a good way, but sad in the way of, once again, the tremendous amount of unfulfilled potential from the writers/showrunners of this show-especially since s11, but even going back as far as S4. 😔

 

[MAK]

I wonder if he was slightly less unhappy with the COVID-altered ending? Maybe it wasn't his death was first, that he was so against, but more against the lack of time to live, and the weird crowded Heaven story?

[Aeryn13]

1 hour ago, MAK said:

I wonder if he was slightly less unhappy with the COVID-altered ending? Maybe it wasn't his death was first, that he was so against, but more against the lack of time to live, and the weird crowded Heaven story?

From what I heard, the changed ending is even worse. Because with Dean aimlessly driving around in heaven, it looks even more like he has nothing going in, other than pathetically waiting around for Sam.

Other than that, the lackluster ending-by-rebar, the pathetic last words and the lack of legacy is exactly the same. I think Jensen in general would have prefered, if death had to happen, than one with a lot more of an oomph.   

[MAK]

I don't think JA was happy with *how* Dean died. But I meant he might have been ok with the car ride in Heaven as opposed to an extended cast party in the Roadhouse.

I base this opinion on what JA said at the Jacksonville Con in 2016. 

In response to a question about what Sam and Dean's Heaven would be after everything that's happened (halfway through S11), JA answers -- "A long highway, peppered with roadhouses, and some Patrick Swayze." JP answers (not exact quote) -- Sam is sitting shotgun riding with his brother, reading, doing research.

Sounds a lot like his drive waiting for Sam in the finale.

[Aeryn13]

11 minutes ago, MAK said:

I don't think JA was happy with *how* Dean died. But I meant he might have been ok with the car ride in Heaven as opposed to an extended cast party in the Roadhouse.

I base this opinion on what JA said at the Jacksonville Con in 2016. 

In response to a question about what Sam and Dean's Heaven would be after everything that's happened (halfway through S11), JA answers -- "A long highway, peppered with roadhouses, and some Patrick Swayze." JP answers (not exact quote) -- Sam is sitting shotgun riding with his brother, reading, doing research.

Sounds a lot like his drive waiting for Sam in the finale.

But that is a specific scenario where both are already dead and maybe died together. Whenever that was.

The ending we got specifically curtailed Dean's time while you could still fill in adventures for Sam, no matter what the montage showed. Also Sam had a life and a family. When THEY get to heaven, is Dean - who has nothing going on beyond Sam as the episode hammer home - to be kicked to the wayside or put in a corner then? 

All the implications for Dean are just lackluster and ugly. A big roadhouse party at least would have given him something beyond just Sam since Sam had a lot beyond Dean.

I remember Jensen once said he wanted Dean to have a good legacy. Well in Dabb's ending he has NO legacy. I think that is something Jensen didn't care for.

Edited March 22, 2021 by Aeryn13

[PAForrest]

20 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

But that is a specific scenario where both are already dead and maybe died together. Whenever that was.

The ending we got specifically curtailed Dean's time while you could still fill in adventures for Sam, no matter what the montage showed. Also Sam had a life and a family. When THEY get to heaven, is Dean - who has nothing going on beyond Sam as the episode hammer home - to be kicked to the wayside or put in a corner then? 

All the implications for Dean are just lackierter and ugly.

I remember Jensen once said he wanted Dean to have a good legacy. Well in Dabb's ending he has NO legacy. I think that is something Jensen didn't care for.

In reading Drabb's description of the changes to the finale, there's an even more bleak possibility for Dean's already wretched end. Some fans are suggesting - and I think they're right - that the heaven scenes would only have been shown when Sam finally died, after grieving a little and then having a FF life, etc., etc. Drabb's description of the finale that wasn't makes it clear that the big party in a crowded Roadhouse with Kansas playing would only happen in SAM & Dean's heaven, not Dean's heaven. He doesn't say crap about what would happen after Dean died - not until Sam shows up.

What if not only does Drabb kick Dean to the curb and insures his least favorite character in the entire universe has no life and no legacy, but that his original intention was after Dean died the audience never sees him again until the time comes that Samantha graces heaven with his presence in the final couple of minutes. That would mean Dean dies barely halfway into the episode, and then that's it for Dean and his fans. Turn off the episode and tune back in the last maybe two minutes if you care to see Dean again.

It would explain why less than zero thought was put into Dean's heaven, and why it was clearly nothing more than one-dimensional filler. I mean, even Wanek put no effort into the Roadhouse set because it wasn't needed anymore without the party aspect. Frankly I don't know why they even bothered with that set.

But, hey, at least Dean got a teeny tiny bit of filler in the finale. In the original script, it's highly likely he didn't even get that.

I know Jensen is trying to make the best of a situation he had no control over, but remember in the last Creation panel he still talked about Jack eventually bringing the guys back. Apparently he said the same thing in his M&G. In other words, Jensen continues to make it clear that he doesn't see that end as permanent. Why would he want to?

Edited March 22, 2021 by PAForrest

[7kstar]

On 3/22/2021 at 12:00 PM, PAForrest said:

I know Jensen is trying to make the best of a situation he had no control over, but remember in the last Creation panel he still talked about Jack eventually bringing the guys back. Apparently he said the same thing in his M&G. In other words, Jensen continues to make it clear that he doesn't see that end as permanent. Why would he want to?

What I look at is Jensen's body language.  He's not happy and honestly he isn't really faking it that well.  You can tell he is just going through the motions.  Jared is all bubbly.  The fact that he was the lone wolf, he couldn't really do much but try to make the best of a bad ending. 

I hope he will give it a rest and focus on something else for a bit.  Then perhaps when he has the power to create something he's excited about, he could get the gang back together.  But he needs to have the clout to get the writers that will support his vision.

  The ending isn't permanent and his reaction makes it clear that he isn't supporting it as permanent.  He makes it clear with the vampire story that he thinks how he died was dumb.  I would rather see him in projects where he is supported than just phoning it in to make some fans happy.  He's too good to just be Dean Winchester, even though I love his character.

[roamyn]

We just finished the finale, and honestly I liked it.  Going out on a case - w/no plot armor from Chuck - is EXACTLY what Dean has always wanted.  
 

The only few things I would’ve wished for is a longer defined time period between Chuck’s defeat & Dean’s death, Miracle joining him in Heaven, and meeting Cas.  Yes, it would’ve been nice to see all the others they’ve lost, but FF can correct COVID’s screw up.

[gonzosgirrl]

4 minutes ago, roamyn said:

We just finished the finale, and honestly I liked it.  Going out on a case - w/no plot armor from Chuck - is EXACTLY what Dean has always wanted.  
 

The only few things I would’ve wished for is a longer defined time period between Chuck’s defeat & Dean’s death, Miracle joining him in Heaven, and meeting Cas.  Yes, it would’ve been nice to see all the others they’ve lost, but FF can correct COVID’s screw up.

Or, you know, a good word about Dean, or expression of sadness about his death from, say... anyone.

[Pondlass1]

Jack’s heaven would’ve just messed him up. Yikes what a life sentence for a true alpha male!

[Casseiopeia]

 

[BornToDie]

I wasn’t sure where this should go, but this seemed to be the best place.  Out of curiosity, does anyone think there will be a revival in the next five years?

[Aeryn13]

1 hour ago, BornToDie said:

I wasn’t sure where this should go, but this seemed to be the best place.  Out of curiosity, does anyone think there will be a revival in the next five years?

No, that seems like too short a time frame. Honestly, I don't think there will be a revival, period.

[Aithne]

2 hours ago, BornToDie said:

I wasn’t sure where this should go, but this seemed to be the best place.  Out of curiosity, does anyone think there will be a revival in the next five years?

I used to think they'd probably try to do something, but then they killed Dean off at 40ish and followed him and Sam all the way to the literal afterlife. So... yeah. I no longer think that's in the cards. 

Edited May 7, 2022 by Aithne

[tessathereaper]

My only hope is that Dean really does get bored and is like "you gotta put me back in coach" to Jack(ugh!). 

[MAK]

From The Winchesters thread

Quote

@Aeryn13

To this day I think if Season 5 had been the end, Dean would have not been thrown out of the story and both would have jumped into the cage with their respective archangels. I would have been fine with that ending. And if I were a Sam-fan, I would have been thrilled that my guy got the heroic world save and the big martyrdom. What is not to love about that?

My beef with the Series Finale is not at all that Dean died but how he died. Randomely taken out as soon as Chuck was gone - we all know what that impies, in the most humiliating manner possible, with no acknowledgment and no legacy and his final words were once again denigrating himself as a weak loser while Sam was the end all, be all.

Yes too all of this!

If Kripke had written Swan Song as the end of the show, I don't think Dean would have been doomed to an apple pie life. 

For a positive ending, God could have saved Sam. (Wasn't Cas supposed to play "God" if they hadn't been renewed?)

For a darker ending, Dean would have latched on to Sam or Adam, and followed them into the cage. 

[Aeryn13]

8 minutes ago, MAK said:

From The Winchesters thread

Yes too all of this!

If Kripke had written Swan Song as the end of the show, I don't think Dean would have been doomed to an apple pie life. 

For a positive ending, God could have saved Sam. (Wasn't Cas supposed to play "God" if they hadn't been renewed?)

For a darker ending, Dean would have latched on to Sam or Adam, and followed them into the cage. 

I don`t think that would have been the case because either one still treats Dean like the pathetic hanger-on. I truly do envision both brothers hosting their respective archangels and both overcoming the possession because of each other. Together. Not Dean jumping after Sam pathetically after the fact and after his role usurped by Adam.  

[tessathereaper]

14 minutes ago, MAK said:

From The Winchesters thread

Yes too all of this!

If Kripke had written Swan Song as the end of the show, I don't think Dean would have been doomed to an apple pie life. 

For a positive ending, God could have saved Sam. (Wasn't Cas supposed to play "God" if they hadn't been renewed?)

For a darker ending, Dean would have latched on to Sam or Adam, and followed them into the cage. 

If Swan Song had been the end then Dean would have been Michael, Sam would have been Lucifer then I think BOTH would have jumped in the cage, or one would have dragged the other into the cage with him.  Adam would have been a non-entity, he wouldn't have been part of it, he'd have been a footnote like *Season 4 episode Jump The Shark Dean and Sam discover they have a half brother, but he was killed by ghouls". The End.

[MAK]

13 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

I truly do envision both brothers hosting their respective archangels and both overcoming the possession because of each other. Together. Not Dean jumping after Sam pathetically after the fact and after his role usurped by Adam.  

That would have been awesome!

But I don't think Kripke respected Dean enough to do that. It seemed that he still considered Sam "the hero," even though he knew how much more depth Dean's character had.

[ahrtee]

17 minutes ago, tessathereaper said:

If Swan Song had been the end then Dean would have been Michael, Sam would have been Lucifer then I think BOTH would have jumped in the cage, or one would have dragged the other into the cage with him.  Adam would have been a non-entity, he wouldn't have been part of it, he'd have been a footnote like *Season 4 episode Jump The Shark Dean and Sam discover they have a half brother, but he was killed by ghouls". The End.

That was what I had heard was the original plan.  I don't remember where I heard that, though (it was a long time ago!)  But it seems to me that, before the show was renewed and they had to scramble to find a way to have both boys survive, Kripke's original plan was both went into the pit together to stop the battle and save the world.  Adam wasn't a gleam in anyone's eye until the renewal forced a new story.  

Dean would never have had an "apple pie" life.  He never wanted it, and I can't imagine him ever settling down to one, even with Lisa and Ben, and anyone who knew the character (especially Kripke) would know that.  It was Sam's wish, not Dean's.  

[tessathereaper]

1 hour ago, MAK said:

That would have been awesome!

But I don't think Kripke respected Dean enough to do that. It seemed that he still considered Sam "the hero," even though he knew how much more depth Dean's character had.

Yes he did.  I'm pretty sure his ending was Dean and Sam both going into the pit.  That changed because they got a season 6 and Sera Gamble the new showrunner wanted the ending  we got to Season 5 to set up her Season 6.

[Bergamot]

4 hours ago, MAK said:

@Aeryn13

To this day I think if Season 5 had been the end, Dean would have not been thrown out of the story and both would have jumped into the cage with their respective archangels. I would have been fine with that ending. And if I were a Sam-fan, I would have been thrilled that my guy got the heroic world save and the big martyrdom. What is not to love about that?

I think that if the show had ended with Season 5, this would have been an amazing way to end it!

When it was announced that Season 15 was the last one, I was hoping for a "We have work to do" ending. Instead we got Dabb flatly announcing, "This is the end of these characters' journey."  And JP saying he didn't want anything that implied that they might still be hunting, because he wouldn't want their adventures to continue after the show was over. So I thought, "Oh well, so much for my preferred ending!"

My next favorite ending would have been something like the series finale of "Angel". I really thought that was awesome, with Angel and his friends facing a battle of impossible odds and certain doom at the end. And Angel saying, "Personally, I kind of want to slay the dragon" and then saying "Let's go to work" and the screen cutting to black. I loved it! To me this is kind of similar to the original Season 5 ending, in that the heroes go out fighting to the end -- but since you don't actually see it ending, there is always the thought that somehow, maybe, it didn't end there for them.

The one thing I didn't foresee was Dabb doing his best to make sure that the door to the series was slammed completely shut in the end. It's like he was determined to make it clear that the series belonged to him, and by doing so he did his best to steal from the fandom any sense that it belonged to them as well.

Edited May 26, 2022 by Bergamot

[Aithne]

5 hours ago, tessathereaper said:

If Swan Song had been the end then Dean would have been Michael, Sam would have been Lucifer then I think BOTH would have jumped in the cage, or one would have dragged the other into the cage with him.  Adam would have been a non-entity, he wouldn't have been part of it, he'd have been a footnote like *Season 4 episode Jump The Shark Dean and Sam discover they have a half brother, but he was killed by ghouls". The End.

Absolutely. I think that's pretty much what Kripke means when he says his ending would've been darker, and we wouldn't have liked it. Because his impression of what we'd like has never really aligned with mine, haha - I would've been happy with this, even moreso because it would've rendered obsolete all the whinging about how Dean needed to exit the narrative in order to prove that he's a good person/brother. F that. 

Edited May 26, 2022 by Aithne

[roamyn]

QuoteThe one thing I didn't foresee was Dabb doing his best to make sure that the door to the series was slammed completely shut in the end. It's like he was determined to make it clear that the series belonged to him, and by doing so he did his best to steal from the fandom any sense that it belonged to them as well.

While he certainly did enough to try and burn the show down, it’s not true that he slammed the door at the end.  This is Supernatural after all, when reapers can suddenly become angels, a squirrely prophet becomes God, John apparently meets Mary while searching for the Dad he hated rather than aft a movie where they bump into each other, a certain main character gets dumber even aft all his years of experience and his smarts earlier, a hugely destructive female force becomes a sad boring milquetoast who willingly lets her equally powerful brother subsume her, Gabriel dies, yet is actually alive and yet God doesn’t sense him, etc etc.  Retcon is alive and well in SPN

people get resurrected all the time.