S14.E16: Don't Go in the Woods

[Aeryn13]

Quote

As for the relentless insistence on trying to convince the audience they think are not only brain dead but blind that Dean is ancient - as if Sam is so much younger than him (he ain't) - and butt fugly, it simply comes across as BTS pettiness and raging jealousy on the part of the writing staff that Jensen is as handsome as he is. You're not in high school anymore, people. Grow up.

While I remember from my teenage days thinking 20 was truly ancient, I remember just as well that went out the window when it came to my crushes on certain actors as long as they were hot. I mean, I was basically the target demographic for Wesley Crusher back in TNG days but I felt zero attraction and instead beelined straight for Riker, Picard and Worf. 

Most of TV teenagers, especially teenage girls, spring from the minds of middle-aged writers and that shows. I thought those teens were pretty much just clichés and their interaction with Robot!Nougat were plot-contrivance clichés as well. 

[Commando Cody]

6 hours ago, SueB said:

Hey now... don't be dissing my man Kolchak. 

I wasn't dissing Kolchak. The monster on Supernatural reminded me of The Night Stalker for some reason. I am also a fan of The Night Stalker. I used to think it would be cool if Sam ran across some of Carl's reports, but since it's a TV show to Supernatural as well, that ship has sailed. 

[raven]

Stay on topic.  Off topic posts have been removed.

[mertensia]

It 's always nice seeing Adam Beach. I like that except for his knowledge of the origins of the monster his being Native American was irrelevant plot-wise. 

I'm fairly sure I have been in that bathroom at a state park. A little too realistic!

The kohunta melting was new and the effect was cool. 

I'm fairly sure a teen can't sell beer, though. 

[NougatJack]

So, this was a pretty solid episode. I liked the spooky forest, the MOTW, the whisteling and the effects when the monster got killed. The Jack-plot was interesting too. It shows that children shouldn‘t play with sharp objects. Especially kids who want to impress other kids. Kids are stupid, Jack because he should have stopped when it was clear that the others were frightened, and that girl because running into a flying blade is obviously very stupid. Thank Chuck that Jack could heal her. But I think the three teenagers won‘t call Jack „Bambi“ ever again.

Both plots were about lying and whether it‘s good or bad. What I didn‘t get is that the Winchesters mentioned the accident with the security guard as the reason because they didn‘t want to take Jack with them on a hunting trip. First, they are killing people left and right while hunting, and second, they took Jack several times with them after said incedent, while he had still his powers. Dean even said how useful Jack has been on their hunts in the last episode of season 13.

[mertensia]

Jack just killed AUMichael in front of their eyes, though. They can be forgiven for being a little gun-shy of Jack at the moment.

[SueB]

12 hours ago, NougatJack said:

So, this was a pretty solid episode. I liked the spooky forest, the MOTW, the whisteling and the effects when the monster got killed. The Jack-plot was interesting too. It shows that children shouldn‘t play with sharp objects. Especially kids who want to impress other kids. Kids are stupid, Jack because he should have stopped when it was clear that the others were frightened, and that girl because running into a flying blade is obviously very stupid. Thank Chuck that Jack could heal her. But I think the three teenagers won‘t call Jack „Bambi“ ever again.

Both plots were about lying and whether it‘s good or bad. What I didn‘t get is that the Winchesters mentioned the accident with the security guard as the reason because they didn‘t want to take Jack with them on a hunting trip. First, they are killing people left and right while hunting, and second, they took Jack several times with them after said incedent, while he had still his powers. Dean even said how useful Jack has been on their hunts in the last episode of season 13.

11 hours ago, mertensia said:

Jack just killed AUMichael in front of their eyes, though. They can be forgiven for being a little gun-shy of Jack at the moment.

I agree the morality issue this episode was lying and I think as @NougatJack said, Jack should have stopped and kids are stupid.  Like driving out to a spooky place to make out.  I also agree with @mertensia that they are a little gun-shy of Jack.  But I think there was a significant time jump between dead security guard and them taking Jack on hunts.  After he killed the security guard, Jack ran away.  The boys used Jack's powers to try and escape the Angels but they didn't 'hunt' with Jack until AFTER he had been using his powers in AUverse for months.  So, I rationalized that they felt Jack had honed his control in AU land and were happy to have him hunt because they felt he had fine-tuned his control of his powers.  So - were they afriad he'd lost that fine-tuning of his powers? Sam used the words "comfortable with then again". So maybe they thought that in his eagerness to help, like with the security guard, he needed to work on control again.  Because Jack IS a bit of a puppy.  And eagerness in a fight can get someone killed if you are weilding so much power.  But they didn't really explain it clearly to either Jack or the audience.  Instead, the reason Jack agreed to their rules is NOT because they are the adults and he's still learning.  Jack agreed because he f*cked up again.   

Which is interesting.  Because it's somewhat implying that the hard lesson was needed again for Jack to be more controlled.  And certainly showing off to new friends is both a new experience for him and a reminder that his powers need to have a purpose.  But by failing to tell the Winchesters about his screw up, he got the message "I need to have guardians" but I'm not sure he got the message that powers need to be used for a purpose.  

But back to the morality issue - the Winchesters just demonstrated lying (other than job related) is not good. It's not how you deal with the people you care about and they apologized.  Jack kept the truth anyway.  Did he do that because he's a toddler/teen and EVERY child goes through the lying phase? There definitely wouldh have been consequences.  Does he feel like agreeing to use his powers with permission is the right consequence and so he avoids the lectures?  IDK.  I can't say it was because Jack didn't know right from wrong.  He would have openly admitted it if he didn't.  And so he CHOSES to lie.  To get that sick feeling in his stomach (as mentioned earlier in the episode). I need to chew on it more but I'm pretty sure it was MORE than a simply lying=bad message.  There's more nuance there - and Jack doesn't do nuance yet, as a toddler. 

So... what did we learn this episode:
1) Jack still has a conscience I think.  But it's more grey than it was before.
2) The entire speech about lying with Sam & Dean was to set up "you don't lie to your loved ones" morality example for Jack -- even though EVERY member of TFW 2.0 does that.  Cas is actively lying about the deal with The Empty.  Maybe "What Would The Winchesters Do" needs a little cross check against "What Would Mister Rodgers Do" -- and someone get old copies of that show to Jack. STAT. 
3) I think the boys think Jack is back and safe.  I think they are being lulled into a false sense of security.  

During my rewatch (which took me til today because I was busy rocking & keening in a corner about Superatural ending):
- I'm with many - that bathroom was frightenly realistic and the most horrible thing we saw.
- I did like the MOTW.  Although I'm usually quick to point out horrible reductive tropes, they weren't egregious this time, I think there are a TON of 'legends' associated with Native Americans and I can see why they would want to tap into some of that.  At least they didn't have Hollywood stock music for Native Americans playing over the scenes.  And it's a nice twist on Wendigo. The sheriff (played by Adam Beach) was interesting as a responsible guy who was in over his head.  Nice that Dean gave him the kill.  A bit of closure for him.
- Did Jensen really fireman carry that actor or was that a dummy? Cause I gotta say, that's impressive if it was the real actor -- and since they didn't show him putting him on his shoulders, I think it's possible it was a real person.
- Beautifully filmed scenes in the woods as always -- damn, I bet that rain was COLD

Edited March 24, 2019 by SueB

[bethy]

I watched last night and what I found particularly frustrating about the Dean/Sam confrontation in the car is that it didn't have to be a thing. What if instead of Sam being hand-wringing and accusatory (Not "we," "you"!) about the lying, they simply had Sam say, "I've had second thoughts about lying to Jack." What if Sam took ownership of his own role in lying to Jack (because, dude, you were standing right there) and approached Dean as an equal and an adult instead of a petulant teenager. What if Sam explained what was troubling him about the lying - especially when earlier in the episode he was all, "yes, lying is best" before flipping to self-righteously saying, "how about telling him the truth" - and engaging in a discussion with Dean.

I don't understand these writers' compulsion to go back to the poor-put-upon-Sam well over and over and over. 

[tessathereaper]

33 minutes ago, bethy said:

I watched last night and what I found particularly frustrating about the Dean/Sam confrontation in the car is that it didn't have to be a thing. What if instead of Sam being hand-wringing and accusatory (Not "we," "you"!) about the lying, they simply had Sam say, "I've had second thoughts about lying to Jack." What if Sam took ownership of his own role in lying to Jack (because, dude, you were standing right there) and approached Dean as an equal and an adult instead of a petulant teenager. What if Sam explained what was troubling him about the lying - especially when earlier in the episode he was all, "yes, lying is best" before flipping to self-righteously saying, "how about telling him the truth" - and engaging in a discussion with Dean.

I don't understand these writers' compulsion to go back to the poor-put-upon-Sam well over and over and over. 

It's ridiculous and it makes Sam look SO bad.  He doesn't look like some upstanding honest guy, he looks like a freaking hypocrite who can't take responsibility for his own actions.

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, tessathereaper said:

It's ridiculous and it makes Sam look SO bad.  He doesn't look like some upstanding honest guy, he looks like a freaking hypocrite who can't take responsibility for his own actions.

I think these 'writers' go to the fan-fic well for inspiration and they found the #bitchfaceSam tag.

[Lunula]

Didn't mind a MotW episode, though I feel the show is flailing trying to find a point to the season after killing Michael off. This one felt oddly directed, acted and written with too much focus on Jack and the kiddos. 

[MysteryGuest]

This episode didn't do much for me.  The monster was ok, but I found the acting to be weak, and it took me out of the story.  And while I think it's interesting to see Jack actual interacting with normal kids, and wanting to fit in, these particular teens leave me cold.  The guy was ok, and his geeky interest in all things monster was fun, but the girls were just annoying.  

It does seem as though they've forgotten what their plan was for this season, if they ever actually had one.  I'm sure they'll tie everything up in the final episode of the season, but I'd prefer they give us some dramatic episodes leading up to that.  It's been an odd year.

Edited March 31, 2019 by MysteryGuest

[Bali]

On ‎3‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 12:07 AM, Bergamot said:

I thought that the MOTW story was simplistic, dull, and derivative, but that deserted and filthy bathroom was truly terrifying -- scariest thing in the episode! Ha! I loved that set design -- they did a great job on it. (I can't believe though that the girl actually sat down to use one of those toilets!)

If I really- REALLY had to go, I'd still squat in the woods instead of on one of those toilets. I'm behind on episodes, because frankly it has taken me this long to force myself to start them up again. I am so sick of Idiot Dean, Holy Sam, and the rest. Did the showrunners EVER even watch this show? Dean jumping at a corpse? No. Dean giving it a look and shrug that says, "SO" Yes.

Jack is annoying. And Just as they said Maggie's name 2 times in a row, I thought, Well, she has a name- she must die.

On ‎3‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 9:57 AM, Bobcatkitten said:

So I kind of liked it. I love MOTW episodes generally and I enjoyed that they built it up a bit and we got to know the sheriff and his son. We have all been in that creepy ass bathroom and I loved that scene. The monster and the stomach acid, eewwww. 

I thought the sheriff asking why they aren't telling people and preparing them very interesting. Hadn't ever dealt with that idea before. 

I have had very little connection to Jack but this storyline I did. It suddenly occurred to me how crappy his life is. I mean, should he be enrolled in school and learning how to do life in a normal way? And frankly him trying to impress his new friends rang true to me. And then lying to his "parents." I liked it. 

One thing about Cas. They desperately NEED him to be in charge of heaven or some other fulltime gig so that when he comes around it's easy to explain that he is helping vs. the other way around - why he ISN'T there. 

And one more thing - I find it so weird that Sam is soooo affected still by all this but we have had absolutely NO fallout from Dean, who was actually possessed by the archangel and let him out (though not his fault). He's just very blase' and it's weird. 

Well, the last couple of seasons, the characters have gotten more and more one note. The note that Dabb chose for Sam is guilty. So, he is ALL guilty over the deaths of the hunters. He gets to be all sanctimonious and guilty.

They decided Dean will be cold. He doesn't get to feel guilty. He is just there.

[ahrtee]

56 minutes ago, Bali said:

Well, the last couple of seasons, the characters have gotten more and more one note. The note that Dabb chose for Sam is guilty. So, he is ALL guilty over the deaths of the hunters. He gets to be all sanctimonious and guilty.

Trying to avoid BvJ, but I just want to point out that IMO Sam's guilt feelings never last very long.  He's much better at *giving* guilt to others than accepting it himself.  But that still fits with Dabb giving Sam the Guilt SL.  It's just for others, not himself.   

[Bali]

17 hours ago, ahrtee said:

Trying to avoid BvJ, but I just want to point out that IMO Sam's guilt feelings never last very long.  He's much better at *giving* guilt to others than accepting it himself.  But that still fits with Dabb giving Sam the Guilt SL.  It's just for others, not himself.   

I wasn't trying to go BvJ. I'm just frustrated by how 2 dimensional all of the characters on this show have become. And the truly irritating part is that SO many of the characters could be interesting. But instead, let's just make them all stupid.

[ahrtee]

2 hours ago, Bali said:

I wasn't trying to go BvJ. I'm just frustrated by how 2 dimensional all of the characters on this show have become. And the truly irritating part is that SO many of the characters could be interesting. But instead, let's just make them all stupid.

Sorry if I sounded like I was criticizing you.  *I* was the one trying not to go BvJ.  I thought you were being very polite.  😊

[The Companion]

On 3/21/2019 at 9:31 PM, SueB said:

Black dude is monster chum trope.  *sigh*. I know, casting is different than writing.  

 

Plus the teenage girl making out in thr woods was immediately killed. 🙄 During the intro scene, I thought we might get a fakeout. She survives and finds the two guys killed by a MOtW. But nope. 

Hey, at least the lesbians survived.

On 3/22/2019 at 1:06 AM, Whodunnit said:

I guess what I struggle with in that scene is the fact that they would be so afraid as to be in a complete panic. I can understand being uneasy, sure. But the knife was moving side to side, not towards them and supposedly they had become friends.

I've got it! Her mom was the assistant of a knife thrower who died in a tragic accident.

It was such a fail from a blocking and direct standpoint. Who would run towards the knife?

On 3/22/2019 at 7:28 AM, icemiser69 said:

 

Dean could have overruled everybody and found a way to bury himself at sea.

Could he bury the writers at sea instead? 

On 3/24/2019 at 3:04 AM, mertensia said:

 

I'm fairly sure a teen can't sell beer, though. 

Can't they? I know they can serve alcohol here but require a special license. I was definitely selling wine when I was a cashier at a grocery store at 19/20. 

Something was wrong with Netflix on this episode. The episode of Supernatural I was trying to watch kept being interrupted by a terrible pilot for a show about teenagers being obnoxious.

Really, the switch to the other story was so jarring. You would be settling into the creep factor of the dark woods and the monster and all of the sudden, you were watching kids study. It didn't work.

The woods plot was solid. Not fantastic, but it was nice to see the flashlights in the dark again. I thought the monster itself was a rare fail from the effects and costume departments. From the weird shirt thing it was wearing to the fact that it was so bulky. It looked like a tree rather than a constantly starving dessicated creature. I would have pictured something entirely different from the backstory. 

Nevertheless, I love a good creepy jaunt through the woods. The acid effect was pretty good and the concept was sufficiently creepy that that half could have been a decent episode. 

The Jack stuff was horrible. Awkward abd poorly written and directed. "I can't help it if you are cute when you are angry" the girl says to her girlfriend who in no way resembles anger, for example. Or the kids hanging out at the abandoned house to study because reasons? At least give em a beer or something. The story ground to a stop every time we switched to them. 

Plus the forced lie conversation that made 0 sense in the context of this show. What the hell was the point of any of that?

[FlickChick]

25 minutes ago, The Companion said:

Could he bury the writers at sea instead? 

LOLOLOL! I literally laughed out loud. By now you probably understand my warning for episodes to come. These teens are truly ridiculous - but they are Dabb's creations from "Lebanon" that he couldn't spend the entire episode on as he originally planned because Jensen was able to get JDM to appear. He's the writer (showrunner and producer) that I would most like Dean to bury at sea. 😞However, Perez wrote this one, but I imagine that they all have to clear plots through Dabb.

Edited July 4, 2020 by FlickChick
Apparently my writing isn't so great either. :(

[The Companion]

2 minutes ago, FlickChick said:

LOLOLOL! I'm literally laughed out loud. By now you probably understand my warning for episodes to come. These teens are truly ridiculous - but they are Dabb's creations from "Lebanon" that he couldn't spend the entire episode on as he originally planned because Jensen was able to get JDM to appear. He's the writer (showrunner and producer) that I would most like Dean to bury at sea. 😞However, Perez wrote this one, but I imagine that they all have to clear plots through Dabb.

 

I believed you and still I am disappointed.