S02.E08: In from the Cold

[metaphor]

Quote

Howard Prime and Emily work together to figure out Indigo's plans. Clare and Quayle consider their future. Howard must face the truth about his wife.

Airdate: February 3, 2019

[mxc90]

When did Emily Alpha realize this wasn't Howard Alpha? When he fought off the 2 assassins or how he performed in the bedroom? At least thank him for saving your life before kicking him out the apartment. 

Once again, Howard's/Emily's security is terrible. They didn't bother ask Howard where did he go after he gave them the slip. They probably let the assassins in the front door with no resistance.

All those years, Anna never mentions the trip or the fake names to Emily Prime. This is one character that can keep a secret and not bitch about her parents' job.

In season one, it was revealed Emily Alpha was writing notes to Howard Prime. I thought they had met years ago?!

How long/many times was Emily on the other side to remember every detail of the other's house? So the chalk markings was key point of the marriage's path.

Emily Alpha is making many enemies. I hope her memory returns next week. This is dragging too long.

I'm glad Clare has finally made a choice to give Naya/Peter information but I'm skeptical of her when she said she still loves/hate Mira. She was insane to believe baby Spencer wouldn't be harmed by whatever Indigo has planned. 

Also glad, we didn't get long scenes of Baldwin agonizing if she should or shouldn't take the job (one phone call to Howard and we know where she stands). Now go practice the violin.

Seems odd for Spencer's team to leave one crate behind, pictures, and clues.

Has Peter Alpha made the biggest character change since season one?

I wonder if Peter went straight to listen to the recording and forgot to apply the cream for the baby's rash.

Must have pained Howard Alpha to agree with Yanek.

Naya answers the door with a gun in hand. No attempts have been made on her life but she is still cautious. When she thought she had the answers here's Peter with this twist. She should have shot him right there for not bringing this news days/weeks/months ago.

Edited February 3, 2019 by mxc90

[shapeshifter]

Thank you for the comprehensive list of key points of the episode, @mxc90; there was a lot to keep track of!

3 hours ago, mxc90 said:

When did Emily Alpha realize this wasn't Howard Alpha? When he fought off the 2 assassins or how he performed in the bedroom? 

Good question. Now that you mention it, I guess she likely figured it out in the bedroom, and also when he didn't say "I love you" regularly, but that she didn't trust her own perceptions because of the cognitive issues from her injury--but his being able to take down a couple of heavily armed assassins with he bare hands was undeniably not in her imagination. 

3 hours ago, mxc90 said:

At least thank him for saving your life before kicking him out the apartment. 

I thought this^^ too. Maybe she was thinking that he was just as likely to assassinate her if/when he deemed it prudent--like now that she knew he was from the other side.

If the gas is released will only Emily Prime and Howard Prime survive, or will Alpha Howard's inoculation protect him, or was it only a tracking device and not an inoculation at all?

[meira.hand]

4 hours ago, mxc90 said:

In season one, it was revealed Emily Alpha was writing notes to Howard Prime. I thought they had met years ago?!

And Emily Prime also discovered that Emily Alpha has visited the Prime world. But as Emily Alpha memory is not fully back, she probably does not remember this yet.

[mxc90]

33 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Thank you for the comprehensive list of key points of the episode, @mxc90; there was a lot to keep track of!

You're welcome. 

33 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Good question. Now that you mention it, I guess she likely figured it out in the bedroom, and also when he didn't say "I love you" regularly, but that she didn't trust her own perceptions because of the cognitive issues from her injury--but his being able to take down a couple of heavily armed assassins with he bare hands was undeniably not in her imagination. 

Probably both. I should have added was the code cipher a test for Howard? Maybe Howard Alpha would have never decoded. Maybe her memory is back and she's playing us.

33 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

I thought this^^ too. Maybe she was thinking that he was just as likely to assassinate her if/when he deemed it prudent--like now that she knew he was from the other side.

If the gas is released will only Emily Prime and Howard Prime survive, or will Alpha Howard's inoculation protect him, or was it only a tracking device and not an inoculation at all?

Yes. Earlier in the episode, when she described Howard Prime's character to Howard as violent and has no kindness in his face. I guess she knew this is the man she didn't like and he has to go now. 

I think Howard Alpha was injected with only a tracking device. It would be funny if Alpha management has been preparing for Prime's counter and had their citizens given mandatory flu shots. 

[meira.hand]

4 hours ago, mxc90 said:

How long/many times was Emily on the other side to remember every detail of the other's house? So the chalk markings was key point of the marriage's path.

This whole passage of past recollections (Anna on Prime and Emily on Alpha) and the way they moves between the two scenes was an editing masterpiece. It also revealed that Emily Alpha went to prime to spend time with Anna, which makes hiding it from Howard Alpha much worse than any of the spying secrets. The face of Emily Prime while Anna was describing these meetings, as she slowly realizes why she cannot remember them and that this was the real motivation for Emily Alpha crossing over, was heart breaking.

[mxc90]

5 minutes ago, meira.hand said:

This whole passage of past recollections (Anna on Prime and Emily on Alpha) and the way they moves between the two scenes was an editing masterpiece. It also revealed that Emily Alpha went to prime to spend time with Anna, which makes hiding it from Howard Alpha much worse than any of the spying secrets. The face of Emily Prime while Anna was describing these meetings, as she slowly realizes why she cannot remember them and that this was the real motivation for Emily Alpha crossing over, was heart breaking.

That was a nice scene.

Anna was a big reason for going over but Emily Alpha also had some Indigo business to tend to on that side. Earlier in the season when Aldus jumped from the roof, his final words to Emily Prime was "of course it was you". I'm sure he was talking about Shady Emily Alpha.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, meira.hand said:

This whole passage of past recollections (Anna on Prime and Emily on Alpha) and the way they moves between the two scenes was an editing masterpiece. It also revealed that Emily Alpha went to prime to spend time with Anna, which makes hiding it from Howard Alpha much worse than any of the spying secrets. The face of Emily Prime while Anna was describing these meetings, as she slowly realizes why she cannot remember them and that this was the real motivation for Emily Alpha crossing over, was heart breaking.

50 MINUTES AGO, MXC90 SAID:

Anna was a big reason for going over but Emily Alpha also had some Indigo business to tend to on that side. Earlier in the season when Aldus jumped from the roof, his final words to Emily Prime was "of course it was you". I'm sure he was talking about Shady Emily Alpha.

Now I'm wondering if Mira/Indigo had a hand in the death of Anna Alpha to motivate either or both Emilys to spy for The Cause, and/or, maybe Anna Prime is really Anna Alpha, and that is why she survived — or am I remembering it wrong (that Anna Alpha died of a sickness that—although not heretofore mentioned—could have been the engineered virus?).
BTW, it wouldn't surprise me to learn that the bio weapon unleashed on Prime world was the work of a rogue faction and not necessarily Alpha Management.

 

When Howard Prime said "I love you" in this episode, he was sincere, right?

[mxc90]

7 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Now I'm wondering if Mira/Indigo had a hand in the death of Anna Alpha to motivate either or both Emilys to spy for The Cause, and/or, maybe Anna Prime is really Anna Alpha, and that is why she survived — or am I remembering it wrong (that Anna Alpha died of a sickness that—although not heretofore mentioned—could have been the engineered virus?).
BTW, it wouldn't surprise me to learn that the bio weapon unleashed on Prime world was the work of a rogue faction and not necessarily Alpha Management.

 

When Howard Prime said "I love you" in this episode, he was sincere, right?

I think Emily Alpha had a miscarriage. Maybe there's some other story behind this.

A rogue is possible. One of the people in management or one of their underlings could have gotten scared and gave the order. Before this series is over we should get an episode dedicated to this event.

I believe Howard was honest/sincere with this Emily. Emily Prime... not too much.

[mxc90]

Emily Alpha took Anna to the same place she and her mother went years ago. Emily and Anna played the same fake name game. Did Emily also have a secret hookup too? My guess is she was meeting the guy that went into car business (Langston). She also, left important Indigo files in the secret hiding spot there that Emily Prime found.

I wonder if Emily Alpha knew Anna was alive before her first crossover or just stumbled on the revelation the way Howard Alpha found out.

Also, Uncle Eric didn't know Anna (age 8) was missing for a weekend?

Edited February 4, 2019 by mxc90

[meira.hand]

Just a shout out to a post for this episode on Reddit that puts Clare's scenes here on a whole new level. Its a quote from the Wiki page of the actress playing Clare, who used to be a Scientologist:

Quote

In 2017, she tweeted congratulations to Leah Remini and Mike Rinder on their series Scientology and the Aftermath winning an Emmy Award.[39] In an interview with the Los Angeles Times Boniadi described her role in Counterpart as cathartic and therapeutic, saying "sometimes there are personal traumas that you don't ever talk about publicly but you pour it into your work". She continued: "this idea of shedding indoctrination and finding out who you are for me is a strong one. It has been extremely therapeutic for me to be able to put it out into the world through my art as opposed to openly discussing it."

[Bort]

Did we know Anna was a doctor? A pretty awesome one, like Emily Prime said, it wasn't just mother's pride talking.

I loved Anna's glee at finding out her parents are spies. I'm sure it explained so much about what was wrong in her life with regards to them. That revelation had to be a load off her mind.

[WaltersHair]

I feel like the characters got painted into a corner by the writing and don't know how to get out.

The flu, which is what I was sure was up their sleeves, is in fact the doomsday bomb.

I thought Emily Silk must have suspected when the other Howard never cooked. The other Howard cooked all kinds of gourmet items.

[Ottis]

That was a whole lot of nothing. The characters finally caught up to things we already knew.

Emily suspected it wasn’t her Howard when he knew about codes. She was sure when he fought off attackers. Ironic that the only thing that saved her was that he wasn’t her Howard. 

I couldn’t believe “Shadow” had to walk through the whole house of memories before realizing Indigo’s plan. Shoot, Peter should have figured it out right away.

What kind of heads up was that, Assasin Girl? Two seconds’ notice? 

I like Emily Bolger a lot more here than on Mayans MC. 

Edited February 4, 2019 by Ottis

[Noneofyourbusiness]

This was a wonderful introspective on our characters.

[kikaha]

Does Mira want to kill all people in alpha (except those with immunity)? 

[shapeshifter]

28 minutes ago, kikaha said:

Does Mira want to kill all people in alpha

Pretty much

[kikaha]

I'm guessing she includes both managements in the death toll.  That 's why she wants to bring them to the meeting: to make sure they are exposed to the toxin as well.  The witching hour nears. 

Her agents -- the people she brainwashed as kids -- better watch their backs too.  Mira could well have them in her sights. 

[Quilt Fairy]

Minority opinion, here, but I don't see anything wrong with Emily Alpha crossing to see Anna, the daughter she never had. The only reason she was able to do it was because Emily Prime wasn't able to care for Anna.  So over the course of 30 years, for a few odd days here and there, Anna was able to enjoy her "mother's" company when otherwise she wouldn't.  How is that bad?  How does that make Emily Alpha a bad person?

I also think there's a flaw in the reasoning about the chalk markings.  Once the world split into Alpha and Prime, a variance started.  You don't have 2 parallel worlds with each person going about his business in the exact same way.  Closely, perhaps, in the beginning, but never exactly the same.  Howard and Emily Alpha had a wedding, Howard and Emily Prime eloped.  They were already doing things differently.  So I find the idea that they both followed Emily at night and both saw her marking streets signs with chalk a bit of a stretch.

[scrb]

Yeah it has to be baby Spencer.

Because otherwise, it would be Peter Prime being the reason Clare flips and I won't have that.

In any event looks like Clare has or had the hots for old Spencer until she discovered the plot.

 

But are we to understand that they only knew each other as like adolescents, before they even hit puberty, before they crossed over and assumed shadow lives?  So they were harboring all this pent-up sexual desire for each other even though they weren't old enough to have such desires for each other when they were back at Mira's school in the Prime world?

That would be a curious thing ...

[Coxfires]

What a beatiful episode this was, the character studies in Counterpart are just so so tasteful!

The reveal that Emily Alpha crossed to see the daughter she never was touching on so many levels. That she played the same "game" her mother made her play, great call back. And for Howard P! To discover that a "stranger" could come and take his daughter for days...Same for Emily P. And Howard A. being treated by his "daughter" , there was so much going on!

And the Quayles, incredible scenes. The distance those two went through, how different they both are compared To the same episode last year! Clare facing her endoctrinement (and as underlined above, for the actress herself) and her conflicting feelings about Mira, reassessing her whole life, wow. That was deep. And Peter, judgemental at first but understanding and comforting afterwards. I loved seeing him go to Naya (because SHE ROCKS). 

I know some will complain it was too slow for them but such powerful character writing is rare. What a show.

Edited February 5, 2019 by Coxfires

[Noneofyourbusiness]

9 hours ago, kikaha said:

Does Mira want to kill all people in alpha (except those with immunity)? 

Probably just the same percentage that died of the flu in Prime. They seem to want to replicate it as closely as possible, hence that line about getting the symptoms right.

[whiporee]

I thought it was interested how better the medical technology seemed in the Prime world, probably as a result of the flu. They may not have smartphones, but Anna did have something that looked pretty much like a tricorder, and he sensor-thing she put into Howard to patch him up was nothing I'd ever seen before. 

Alpha Emily remembers everything, and has for a while. She's trying to suss out what is going on -- trying to find a way to not get killed quite yet -- and was playing Howard Prime to find out who exactly he was. 

[Fen Tiger]

18 hours ago, Ottis said:

That was a whole lot of nothing. The characters finally caught up to things we already knew.

Emily suspected it wasn’t her Howard when he knew about codes. She was sure when he fought off attackers. Ironic that the only thing that saved her was that he wasn’t her Howard. 

I couldn’t believe “Shadow” had to walk through the whole house of memories before realizing Indigo’s plan. Shoot, Peter should have figured it out right away.

What kind of heads up was that, Assasin Girl? Two seconds’ notice? 

I like Emily Bolger a lot more here than on Mayans MC. 

Baldwin called earlier, but Aggressive Howard was too busy in the  bedroom to listen to his messages sooner....

So much word re: Mayans MC. She really bugs me in that show.

I really liked that Baldwin kept her agreement with Howard from after they laid waste at the hospital and wouldn't go after Emily. But why even stick around Berlin unless she's hoping the gate will re-open and she can get back to her home side?

[shapeshifter]

22 minutes ago, Fen Tiger said:

But why even stick around Berlin unless she's hoping the gate will re-open and she can get back to her home side?

"The heart wants what the heart wants"? Didn't we see her looking longingly at her lover from a distance in a recent episode?

[Night Cheese]

17 hours ago, Coxfires said:

I know millenials will complain it was too slow for them but such powerful character writing is rare. What a show

Do you really need to generalize an entire generation of people? This comment adds nothing to the discourse or analysis of this show. 

 

That being said, this millennial thought this was a great episode. I suspect Alpha Emily remembers more than she is letting on.

[shapeshifter]

59 minutes ago, justine said:

Do you really need to generalize an entire generation of people? This comment adds nothing to the discourse or analysis of this show. 

 

That being said, this millennial thought this was a great episode.

Thank you. I was hoping that was the case, but didn't feel like I could make the case myself--which isn't really an excuse for not pointing out an over generalization.

 

59 minutes ago, justine said:

I suspect Alpha Emily remembers more than she is letting on.

I wonder if we will ever be told at what point Alpha Emily figured out that Howard Prime was not Alpha Howard.
This is one rare instance in which I kind of hope neither the show nor any behind-the-scenes interviews definitively tell us what is going on inside a character's mind.

[tennisgurl]

2 hours ago, justine said:

That being said, this millennial thought this was a great episode. I suspect Alpha Emily remembers more than she is letting on.

Hi, also a millennial here, and I loved this episode! I didnt find it slow, I thought it was a really interesting character study of the Quales and the Emily's and Howard's and their complicated histories and relationships. Not sure what being a millennial has to do with the show or this episode. There is some stuff about generalizing large groups of people, with Mira raising her little sleeper agents to see all people from the other world as one thing, no matter what they actually are, so thats something I guess. 

I thought the conversations between Claire and Peter were really interesting. Claire didnt want to admit to being indoctrinated, because that would meaning that everything she was taught to believe was a massive lie, and the one person she trusted has horribly betrayed her, so this whole episode led to her finally seeming to choose to side. In many ways, she was being rather naive, thinking that baby Spenser would be spared from the evil plan, but she probably knew that on some level the whole time, and was in denile. 

Heh, Peter and Claire yelling about the Greater Good gave me some serious Hot Fuzz flashbacks. 

"The Great Good..."

"Shut it!" 

I can understand both Emily's reactions to finding out that Emily Alpha had a day out with Anna. Emily Prime was understandably horrified that her daughter had been taken out by a stranger who looked like her, and was trying to be a mom to her, but I can see why Emily Alpha did it. She lost her own daughter, and she has this other girl who looks just what that girl would be like, IS that girl in a way, and if she doesent so anything to hurt her, and even recreates a wonderful memory she has with her own mother (until her mom ruined it) that she might have dreamed about doing with her daughter who she lost. I can see how she would think "whats the harm?" and do something that gave her that touch of motherhood with a daughter she never got to have.

I also loved that Anna was pretty cool with her parents being spies. "...I have mixed feelings about this." 

[kikaha]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

I wonder if we will ever be told at what point Alpha Emily figured out that Howard Prime was not Alpha Howard.

 

I think it had to be while watching him take out the attackers.  She probably had some suspicions before that, but 100% for sure her Howard could never perform like that.

I don't believe she would have slept with him, had she believed he was not her real husband. 

[Coxfires]

3 hours ago, justine said:

Do you really need to generalize an entire generation of people? This comment adds nothing to the discourse or analysis of this show. 

 

That being said, this millennial thought this was a great episode. I suspect Alpha Emily remembers more than she is letting on.

Fixed 

[Haleth]

On 2/3/2019 at 10:35 AM, mxc90 said:

I think Emily Alpha had a miscarriage.

I think this is correct.

On 2/3/2019 at 1:56 PM, kariyaki said:

Did we know Anna was a doctor?

That was my question too.  I don't recall hearing that before.  That was convenient.

On 2/3/2019 at 9:29 PM, Ottis said:

What kind of heads up was that, Assasin Girl? Two seconds’ notice? 

Howard had 4 missed calls on his phone before he listened to the voicemail.  It wasn't Baldwin's fault that he was too busy to check his phone.

22 hours ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

Probably just the same percentage that died of the flu in Prime. They seem to want to replicate it as closely as possible, hence that line about getting the symptoms right.

And something about restoring the balance.

When Peter and Claire were arguing she said something about how it wasn't indoctrination if it was the truth.  Uh, sweetie, if you are made to believe something false is the truth that is indoctrination.  I guess she finally realized she'd been manipulated her whole life.  Wow, last season I would not ever have believed that I'd be sympathetic to Claire.  I wanted so badly for Peter or Howard Prime to shoot her.  Now that she's finally seeing the light I'm appreciating her as a character.  Still on the fence about Baldwin though.

What a master class in acting in the Howard/Emily scenes.  Both JK Simmons and Olivia Williams playing such complex characters (two each!).  The whole cast is truly superb.  Up until the time Emily Alpha pointed a gun and ordered Howard Prime out of her house I was thinking it looked like the two couples would be switching partners.  The all seemed to be more at home with their current situation than before.  Well, up until the whole gun in his face thing.

Emily Alpha spending time with Anna is not that different than Yanek Alpha sneaking in to spend time with Prime's family.  It's a theft and a betrayal that will lead to some serious resentment.  I wonder if we'll get a chance to see Emily Prime confront Alpha about this.  

[mxc90]

1 hour ago, Haleth said:

Emily Alpha spending time with Anna is not that different than Yanek Alpha sneaking in to spend time with Prime's family.  It's a theft and a betrayal that will lead to some serious resentment.  I wonder if we'll get a chance to see Emily Prime confront Alpha about this.  

Emily Alpha must be holding some deep resentment Prime was able to have a baby and having a substance abuse problem (many times in rehab) to never be around a lot for Anna.

[Seppuku]

8 hours ago, Coxfires said:

Fixed 

I'm a millennial myself; these mutliple responses to and complaints about your original post greatly exemplify (MOST) millennials and their mindsets: easily offended, and quick to find something wrong with any little thing that is not structured perfectly as we expected and feel entitled to.  I'm sure if this was a baby boomer taking a crack at GenX, most GenX'er would have simply ignored, or may be retored with some wisecrack about how/why baby boomers suck.  Us millennials, NOPE; just complain and demand fixing such grave injustice as innocent crack.  We are truly such entitled, snow floke babies.

 

OK, political venting is now OVER.

 

Back to the show: these last few episodes have been great, and have helped me understand and appreciate the earlier episodes much more.  I keep hearing that this show may be canceled; I hope not, but if it does get canceled, as long as the last episode does not end with some cliffhanger, I would happy with the way it progressed these two seasons.  I am amazed at the quality of acting many of these actors are demanstrating, especially JK Simmons, Olivia Williams, and Harry Lloyd (and particularly in how they play their alpha and prime characters).

Edited February 5, 2019 by Seppuku

[Noneofyourbusiness]

On 2/3/2019 at 10:35 AM, mxc90 said:

I think Emily Alpha had a miscarriage.

Correct. When Howard Alpha found out about Anna, he told Emily Prime that his Emily had had a miscarriage, and that they had been going to call the baby Anna.

[kikaha]

On 2/4/2019 at 9:34 AM, Noneofyourbusiness said:

Probably just the same percentage that died of the flu in Prime. They seem to want to replicate it as closely as possible, hence that line about getting the symptoms right.

That might well be their goal, but seems to me impossible to achieve.  All sorts of things must be different now that alpha and prime have diverged.  No possible way to control how a mass infection will spread.