Manhattan - General Discussion

[janeta]

I've seen all the eps and i genuinely don't remember that guy burying that box... Presumably that was right after Fischer got whacked?

Oh, and i want someone to off Meeks.

Edited November 26, 2015 by janeta

[peeayebee]

Seriously.  Fritz is the most decent character on the show - and in this episode, Jeannie was pretty close behind.  As soon as we saw her being nice, though, I figured she was DOA. 

As soon as she gave Pablo the Athena pin that would protect HIM, I knew she was doomed.

 

I'm actually getting a little interested in Abby's story. A little.

 

I don't like Darrow the person, but I like the character and William Petersen.

 

Can't stand Nora. I don't particularly like Mamie Gummer.

[ganesh]

Would they have been more enthusiastic if she was either a man or military? I wish they'd spelled that out more clearly.

 

This is being handled poorly. There's clearly an emerging body of work on the biological effects of radiation, of which this continues to this day. Granted, it's wartime, and Liza isn't going to get the best resources, but I am much more invested in this than, "I was mean to a girl on the phone and then she killed herself, and then I had a miscarriage, so religion." As I've said before, there's a good plot with the decision on dropping the bomb and morality, but the show isn't doing it well. 

 

Maybe because Liza knows what's she's talking about, that could come across and get the GIs invested in her project. That's a more interesting plot.

And not for nothing, we know that the Soviets got the bomb from the Manhattan Project. I give a massively engrossing lecture on the spread of nuclear weapons. How are they not making this riveting?

The show really seems to fire on all cylinders when they focus on Frank and Liza. 

[pasdetrois]

I can't believe it. In the first season the writers confused Hispanic and native culture, and they've just done it again. They clearly conveyed that Pablo is pueblo Indian, yet he and his mother have Hispanic names and one of the characters says "gracias" to them, as if Spanish is their native language. While there has been some mingling between Latinos and pueblo people over time, the pueblo people retain their own culture, speaking English and their own dialect.

[shapeshifter]

I can't believe it. In the first season the writers confused Hispanic and native culture, and they've just done it again. They clearly conveyed that Pablo is pueblo Indian, yet he and his mother have Hispanic names and one of the characters says "gracias" to them, as if Spanish is their native language. While there has been some mingling between Latinos and pueblo people over time, the pueblo people retain their own culture, speaking English and their own dialect.

Is it possible they wrote it that way on purpose to further illustrate the ignorance of culture on the part of the "geniuses" who have appropriated the land? In this same episode there is overt racism towards the one Black scientist, which he calls out.

Charlie would be exposed to health-threatening levels of radioactive materials at this point, right? --Which likely contributed to the misscarriage (because not too many "3-headed" babies survive gestation), right?

I'm wondering if Darrow and Abby will have sex and she will get pregnant again. If they do: Bleurgh! (Peanuts comic expletive)

[ganesh]

I don't think Charlie would have been exposed to overly high levels of radiation yet. If that's the point the show wants to make, then fine, I'm not going to call on it, but it's being handled clumsily.

With all this spy drama, I just don't like that he's seemingly gotten away with telling her about the bomb when we know everything is recorded.

[Stratego]

I don't think Charlie would have been exposed to overly high levels of radiation yet. If that's the point the show wants to make, then fine, I'm not going to call on it, but it's being handled clumsily.

With all this spy drama, I just don't like that he's seemingly gotten away with telling her about the bomb when we know everything is recorded.

Wrong, he was exposed to a significant dose.  Since we didn't see a blue flash it didn't go critical--but he "tickled the dragon" dangerously close to a criticality.

[ganesh]

Charlie? or Frank? I don't remember Charlie doing anything experimental since he's been made head of implosion.

[applecrisp]

Mine cut off as well.  I am Mad.  They need to repeat these shows more often. Cable used o do that.

[shapeshifter]

Frank "tickled the dragon." But it just seems that they were so careless in general. Was Charlie around when Fritz inhaled the polonium?

Edited to correct spelling of polonium.

At least I stopped myself from typing plutonium!

Edited November 27, 2015 by shapeshifter

[ganesh]

Polonium. 

I wouldn't say they were deliberately careless, but there is a huge lack of safety regulations and the haste to make this thing has made them take risks that wouldn't be allowed today.

 

Charlie probably received some dose when he was working in the lab, but I'm having a hard time if they're going with the Charlie was so dosed up that it caused the miscarriage.

No one really sat down and did some serious study on the biological effects of radiation until they actually dropped the bomb.

[Stratego]

Frank "tickled the dragon." But it just seems that they were so careless in general. Was Charlie around when Fritz inhaled the palonium?

Polonium.  Fritz likely inhaled a lethal dose of Po. Polonium is extremely toxic (it is an alpha-emitter--which is why it's used in the implosion bomb). He may die in a few months or in several years from cancer.  Wikipedia has considerable information on toxicity studies and LD (50) lethal dose for 50% of population.

 

As far as Frank is concerned, I think he likely radiated himself into a future cancer--but we don't know what his "exposure dose" of ionizing radiation.  I'm not even certain he was wearing a dosimeter at the time (these are always required).

[Pemyquid]

My DVR cut off right when Frank was storming out after his speech. I get from your comments that the ending revealed FDR's death, but what else did I miss?

I don't mind shows that don't spoon feed the story to me, but I must confess I'm finding this season a bit too cryptic. I followed the first season, but then during the long hiatus I forgot things that the show runners seem to be relying on me to remember, in order to follow this season. I think I also missed 1-2 episodes at the beginning of this season.

Can anyone help with the following? I'm not really clear on the two sets of spies, i.e. How did they develop, who are they working for, etc. Is the British guy receiving some sort of primitive faxes from his former father-in-law? What's the deal with Jimmy and the blond woman? There's other details I've missed, but these seem particularly germane to understanding what 's going on....thanks!

[shapeshifter]

I don't mind shows that don't spoon feed the story to me, but I must confess I'm finding this season a bit too cryptic. I followed the first season, but then during the long hiatus I forgot things that the show runners seem to be relying on me to remember, in order to follow this season. I think I also missed 1-2 episodes at the beginning of this season.

Can anyone help with the following? I'm not really clear on the two sets of spies, i.e. How did they develop, who are they working for, etc. Is the British guy receiving some sort of primitive faxes from his former father-in-law? What's the deal with Jimmy and the blond woman? There's other details I've missed, but these seem particularly germane to understanding what 's going on....thanks!

Some of this was cleared up in the next episode, "Behold the Lord High Executioner," but even after that one, I too was struggling to figure out the spy guys, and I didn't miss any episodes. So, here's what I think is happening, but it would be appreciated if someone else either corrects me or corroborates my explanation:

Jim Meeks and the blond woman believe that giving the Soviets the bomb-making intel will prevent use of the atomic bomb by the U.S. because the U.S. will not use it if another state has the capability of retaliating. Meanwhile, Crosely is sending some sort of Morse code messages via the phone lines by flirting with a switchboard operator. I think he is sending stuff to the Germans, but that doesn't make sense to me.

Edited November 27, 2015 by shapeshifter

[Pemyquid]

You're right, Shapeshifter, the next episode did clear things up a bit, maybe? I think Crosely - never knew his name, he's always just been The British Guy - is sharing information with British Intelligence, I guess because Helen broke it off with him and he isn't being appreciated professionally either. I do remember the father-in-law (?) reminding him that the Americans take the science generated by the English and run with it without ever giving credit where credit is due. That makes sense to me I guess. I suppose he needs to have the switchboard operator in on it because she can hear the messages being sent. What I don't get is why is he receiving these messages? Seems risky and the reverse of Intel going out.

As to Jimmy and the blond lady, I'm thoroughly lost. I don't know who she works for or how he got caught up in it. Sometimes they seem to be conscientious objectors to the idea of dropping an atomic bomb on Japan, like Frank, but there must be more to it. And how would they even know that was planned? Frank's beef is that no one knows what the bomb will be used for, so how would these two know? Both spy stories seem contrived to me, but this one more so.

[shapeshifter]

You're right, Shapeshifter, the next episode did clear things up a bit, maybe? I think Crosely - never knew his name, he's always just been The British Guy - is sharing information with British Intelligence, I guess because Helen broke it off with him and he isn't being appreciated professionally either. I do remember the father-in-law (?) reminding him that the Americans take the science generated by the English and run with it without ever giving credit where credit is due. That makes sense to me I guess...

I think it's his would-have-been-father-in-law who is perhaps the grandfather of Crosley's love child. Regardless--so no German spying happening? Or is the not-quite-father-in-law secretly working with the Germans and Crosley doesn't know (just thinks it's the Brits)?

I was sure there was some German connection, but maybe when the counter-intelligence guy in Germany got killed off last season that was the end of it? I can't remember why/how he got discovered, but I think it was something Frank or Charlie did inadvertently or something? Or was that just the suspicion and not reality?

[shapeshifter]

Great review of this episode with some historical references to the spy questions: atomicheritage.org/article/“manhattan”-season-2-episode-7-executioner’s-song

Edited November 28, 2015 by shapeshifter

[Clanstarling]

I've seen all the eps and i genuinely don't remember that guy burying that box... Presumably that was right after Fischer got whacked?

Oh, and i want someone to off Meeks.

I don't remember that either - I do remember the Hersey Bar wrapper in the scene just after the murder of the intelligence guy. 

 

Frank "tickled the dragon." But it just seems that they were so careless in general. Was Charlie around when Fritz inhaled the polonium?

I don't think Charlie was in the same group at the time. What I believe I remember is that Fritz, Meeks and Crosley were alone when it happened.

 

I'm not crazy about this season, though I do think William Peterson is a brilliant addition. I love that he takes the character's combination of two very stereotypical characters - rigid military authoritarian and religious fanatic, and gives some nuance to it. I like that I am never quite sure how he's going to react.

 

Did they make it clear before that Frank and Liza are separated by more than military order? Frank's comment about her "boyfriend" and her pretty cold (and valid) statement about him screwing up HER very important work seemed to indicate an estrangement I didn't think they had - despite the fact he chose to go back.

 

My biggest quibble about the boy/witness drama is that they had him look directly at every "suspect" - when apparently (as shown in one of the later scenes) they had front and side view photos of everyone on the hill (I made a comment to Mr. Starling wondering why they didn't just look at pictures when they put their little witness in jeopardy) Seems like the pictures would be the starting point - and the sketch artist the next step. But then all the drama with the soda, threatening the mother, and Jeannie's eventual death wouldn't have happened. 

 

As for the miscarriage - my take is that it was just a normal miscarriage and Abbie's guilt  about Oppie's mistress,has pushed her over the edge. But certainly, the discussion of Fritz about having children with Jeannie shows an awareness of the birth defect risks, and maybe that does factor in to the writers' plans. BTW did scientists even know that then? I thought a most of our knowledge came from studying the remaining population of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. 

Edited November 28, 2015 by clanstarling

[ganesh]

90%+ of our knowledge did. But I think they would have been aware that some of the early radiation pioneers have died and at least anecdotally they know radiation exposure must be a factor. 

 

To this day, there is still much debate over the effects of low doses of radiation, but because of the bombs the effects of high doses are known with high confidence. 

Fritz knows that polonium emits high energy particles. You can actually feel that. So it's not a leap for him to think if that is stuck in hid body, enough so that he still sets off the monitors, then that can't be good. 

[gwhh]

Is the woman solider spy and the old man "really" father and daughter?

 

I like how the old man said "if we fail they kill all our family"  Man that Stalin really knew how to motivate people for results!

 

Poor fritz!  Good plot line but I feel bad for fritz! 

Edited November 29, 2015 by gwhh

[jrlr]

Is the woman solider spy and the old man "really" father and daughter?

 

I like how the old man said "if we fail they kill all our family"  Man that Stalin really knew how to motivate people for results!

 

Poor fritz!  Good plot line but I feel bad for fritz! 

I didn't think about the "family" as being literal, but maybe it is - that would be another twist!  I find that whole subplot really interesting since at the time the U.S. and the Russians were fighting on the same side.  In RL the woman soldier is Mamie Gummer who is Meryl Streep's daughter, and i can't look at her without seeing Streep. 

 

ETA: i feel SO bad for Fritz, who is by far the nicest character here - although not for long, apparently.

Edited November 29, 2015 by jrlr

[peeayebee]

I too love William Petersen in this. It's a pleasure seeing be a different character than Grissom on CSI. I've seen him in 'Manhunter,' but I think that's it.

[Ina123]

Did I see Fritz on The Good Wife last night? I don't usually watch but football messed up scheduling and I caught a glimpse.

[Ina123]

I'm confused. I'm sure it was Meeks who buried the can (in the rain, I thought), but they artist picture is an older man nothing like Meeks. Also, I didn't realize the Hershey wrapper was buried in the can. I thought the guy gave Meeks Half a wrapper and said his contact would have the other half. Now I'm really confused.

[peeayebee]

The artist's rendering of the man Pablo saw was the one who Meeks met with. I don't know if Pablo saw only him or if he chose not to identify Meeks because his mother told him not to.

[shapeshifter]

Did I see Fritz on The Good Wife last night? I don't usually watch but football messed up scheduling and I caught a glimpse.

I just looked it up, and, yes, that was him!

The artist's rendering of the man Pablo saw was the one who Meeks met with. I don't know if Pablo saw only him or if he chose not to identify Meeks because his mother told him not to.

It makes sense that he wouldn't identify the man who was threatening (and being threatened by) his mother, but I'm still wondering if he only saw the older man. I have some vague memory of seeing the older man also burying something--but it might just be the power of suggestion from the plot.

If this show was made 30 or so years ago, someone in the room would notice that the spilled orange drink smelled wrong, identify it as poison, tell Meeks he just accidentally saved the boy's life, and then Meeks and the boy would be friends, with Meeks giving up his spy trade and living happily ever after. But none of that happened, so only the audience knows that Meeks is a softy.

If Meeks really believes his mission will save thousands, if not millions of children, wouldn't he have let the boy drink the poison?

[Andromeda]

I AM FINALLY CAUGHT UP! I wanted to watch this show last year, but didn't record it, and so I got the disks from Netflix and DVR'd Season 2. 
 
I used to work at Site W (long after it had a real name, the Hanford Site), and have been inside plutonium production facilities including graphite reactors, so I'm definitely interested in this premise. The show is really good -- albeit fictionalized. 
 

I had to laugh at Liza's "assistants" - talk about don't give a f*, they were truly "grunts."

No kidding. She wasn't asking anything a middle school science student couldn't do, but I get the feeling they'd shortcut it and pull all the samples from the same spot anyway. I love her plot line -- it's amazing to think how they had to develop the science behind safe/unsafe radiation exposure alongside the work to build the bomb.
 
I'm more frustrated than not by Frank's plot line. He's a major brain, and they're wasting that brain when they're racing to develop the bomb, so it makes the kind of sense that...not so much. And I also didn't realize Frank and Liza were actually separated, and that he assumed she was having an affair with the reporter, since they were forced to separate (which is ridick, but whatever) after she was trying to see him in various ways.
 
Meeks is so frustrating. So naive. I really wanted him to get caught, but the show kind of ruined that suspense because we saw him at the Trinity site in the first episode of the season. And I feel so bad for Fritz. What a craptastic friend to have in Meeks. As usual in shows like this, who want to keep the perpetrator around, the person who figures it out goes to confront the guilty party instead of running to the authorities, giving said guilty party an opportunity to worm their way out of it.
 
I had to google to find out who was playing Meeks' contact. Mamie Gummer looks so much like the actress on American Horror Story Freak Show -- not enough for me to think it was the same woman, but so close. And no wonder, they're sisters. As for her character -- when the man handler (father?) was telling her that the Kremlin had their family's names, I naively assumed it was so they could be protected, but then it turns out it's so they can go after them if they fall out of line! Way to force "loyalty," yikes!
 
I don't think Charlie and Abby's miscarriage is because of his nuclear work, but the question hanging out there plagues people today who work in or around the nuclear (or chemical) industry. It's one of those "never know for sure" situations. Like Liza pointed out, chances are there'd be one miscarriage among that number of pregnancies anyway in any population. Unless the fetus showed gross abnormalities, but Charlie isn't exactly handling plutonium on the regular, so I can't see it.

I can't believe it. In the first season the writers confused Hispanic and native culture, and they've just done it again. They clearly conveyed that Pablo is pueblo Indian, yet he and his mother have Hispanic names and one of the characters says "gracias" to them, as if Spanish is their native language. While there has been some mingling between Latinos and pueblo people over time, the pueblo people retain their own culture, speaking English and their own dialect.

This has been bugging me, too. I can't figure out if they're native Americans or Mexican Hispanics -- they seem to be both at the same time. Thanks for the info.

Edited December 1, 2015 by Andromeda

[Clanstarling]

If Meeks really believes his mission will save thousands, if not millions of children, wouldn't he have let the boy drink the poison?

I think maybe saving children in the abstract, vs saving/killing one right in front of you, are two different things. One is partially intellectual (I want to save thousands of children on the other side of the world), the other emotional (I have to kill this innocent child to save thousands of children). His contact manages to reconcile the two easily. He's always been an emotional guy. Edited December 1, 2015 by clanstarling

[Ina123]

I hate Meeks.

[bentley]

The episode summary is a little deceptive. Charlie didn't turn to Frank. He was forced to deal with him. Anyway, so glad to see Charlie and Frank working together again. Their scenes are the best part of the show. I'm pretty sure Charlie is not going to be able to come through for Frank,on the target committee, though, so I guess that will put their relationship back at Square One. *sigh*

 

The wife ignoring a husband's request/order to stay away from his father is such a tired trope, but at least they didn't drag this one out. Abby saw through him right away. Of course now he's dripped some poison in her ear about Charlie, which will probably manifest itself in the next few episodes.

 

Any guesses as to who the second spy is?

Edited December 2, 2015 by bentley

[mjc570]

I really enjoyed this episode.  It had Frank and Charlie working together, some Liza, an interesting story element relating to Charlie.  The two things that really surprised me - first, that Frank had sabotaged the test, and second, that Crosley was playing the other British guy.  I was glad to see the reference to Sid, that the repercussions of that entire incident were still being explicitly acknowledged. 

 

I was trying to think of the second spy, too, although I didn't really pay attention at first (I thought it referred to Meeks).  Of course, the woman spy (have no idea of her name) could have been lying - there may not be a second spy, and the notes really did refer to him.  All I can remember - not as intelligent as he thinks he is, susceptible to flattery,

[shapeshifter]

I like that we, the audience, could see that Frank was playing Charlie, but I find it hard to believe that Charlie--especially given his eye-opening relationship with his father who was "only a few years older than [Frank]"--wouldn't have suspected Frank as a saboteur from the moment he showed up to fix the problem.

Anyone else freaking out that Joey was going to get run over when Abby sent him out to play and told him "just stay away from the cars"?

Brad Garrett is so ridiculously taller than Ashley Zuckerman to be his father, but at least they didn't have a scene together. However, I really question the wisdom of them shooting a scene with Abby standing next to her outsized father-in-law.

Poor Fritz. Probably the most realistic fictional depiction of grief I've seen on screen.

I adore Helen and her new lawyer beau (doesn't hurt that I adore Jason Ralph), but he's just a corporate spy in sheep's clothing, so it really is too good to be true.

[Andromeda]

So happy to see Frank working at physics again, and with Charlie. If he only knew what Frank did to save his bacon... I feel so bad for Fritz -- it really makes me hate Meeks at this point. Like he would really be losing his friend, after letting that "accident" happen to his wife! I don't want him to be a radioactive guinea pig!

 

I am assuming Frank and Liza are on the outs because his need to go back to the Hill caused her to get stuck there again? It hasn't really been spelled out, I don't think. They just suddenly seemed to be barely speaking.

[janeta]

Yes, great to see Frank back in the game. Seriously, this show could be just Frank and Liza and i'd be happy. And Charlie is much more tolerable when he's working with Frank.

[shapeshifter]

I am assuming Frank and Liza are on the outs because his need to go back to the Hill caused her to get stuck there again? It hasn't really been spelled out, I don't think. They just suddenly seemed to be barely speaking.

I think the real impetus to cut herself off from him was when Darrow sent their future son-in-law to certain death as punishment for helping Frank sneak in to see his wife. Darrow is cut from the same cloth as Nora (Meeks' spy girlfriend) who was willing to kill Pablo and did kill Jeannie "for the greater good"--which, given the historical context of the show, makes them both morally of the same ilk as Hitler--who, in this episode, just committed suicide. IIRC, Hitler chose the same method that Nora keeps on the ready and regularly doles out: Cyanide pills.

But I digress. I'm not even sure Darrow's actions were "for the greater good." It seemed it was more of a cruel, spiteful power play--also Hitlerian. Liza has emerged as the real good guy of the show, hasn't she?

[Ina123]

OK. I'm confused again.

Did Frank sabotage the experiment "before" by reversing the polarity with opposite paint colors, creating a backward installation? Or did he paint the detonator "after" to make Charlie think that was the mistake? If after, is it to make Charlie look bad and Frank comes in to save the day with the "real" problem. I guess I have to re-watch.

[shapeshifter]

The number 33 may point to Truman as the 33rd president.

Yes, and I just happened to notice that Numb3rs episode 4.16 was titled "Atomic No. 33," which was a reference to arsenic. http://numb3rs.wikia.com/wiki/Atomic_No._33

Were Nora's poison pills arsenic?

AV Club also mentions that there were 33 names on Frank's list. Were there really? Or was that just a joke? Anyway, they also got the cylon reference, which I doubt this show was thinking of.

[shapeshifter]

OK. I'm confused again.Did Frank sabotage the experiment "before" by reversing the polarity with opposite paint colors, creating a backward installation? Or did he paint the detonator "after" to make Charlie think that was the mistake? If after, is it to make Charlie look bad and Frank comes in to save the day with the "real" problem. I guess I have to re-watch.

Pretty sure Frank and his desert buddy painted them to sabotage the test, which makes sense since Frank doesn't want to see the bomb used on people, but he also did it to regain his freedom--and hopefully a seat at the deciding table. But since that chair went to Charlie, Frank is going to have to either win Charlie's heart and mind or else employ some other devious means to possibly sabotage Charlie and get himself at the table.

Of course, we know Frank will not succeed in having the bomb not dropped on civilians, but I think the initial test was moved to a place not likely to impact human life. Not sure.

Edited December 2, 2015 by shapeshifter

[janeta]

Yeah, i'm pretty sure Frank wanted the test to fizzle in front of all the brass, to show that Charlie can't do it alone and they really need him (Frank) to make it work.  Heh. >:)

[gryphon]

I love Charlie and Frank together...and Liza has always been one of my faves.

 

Fitz makes me weepy.  A lot. Meeks is a fucker. 

[ganesh]

Most likely, they just meant Truman.

[ganesh]

I'm pretty sure Charlie is not going to be able to come through for Frank,on the target committee, though, so I guess that will put their relationship back at Square One. *sigh*

 

I was hoping Frank would be the one on the committee and end up voting for dropping the bomb, but I think it's fair that the Colonel said, there's no way he'd get on it. Charlie makes more sense since we know there will be a successful test. 

 

I don't think there was a second spy. She had to make something up. I mean, she blew him when they first met, and banged him a bunch of times. She's clearly in charge of the operation. He's *barely* a spy as it is. 

 

They just suddenly seemed to be barely speaking.

 

I think Frank and Liza are playing this on purpose because the Colonel would have brought the hammer down on Frank.

 

"Reverse the polarity" is such a silly scifi trope. It's a scream that it was actually used here properly. 

 

I also think Frank is underestimating the Japanese. Literally everyone in the greater Tokyo area was preparing to fight it out if the Allies invaded. It would have been a bloodbath. However, Frank is correct in the bomb had to be dropped to show the world that they did it. So if Charlie actually agrees that this is the right course of action, I'm back on board with him being the one to decide to drop it on civilian targets. 

I tell you what. You all have got to go to the museums in Tokyo to see some off the "Pacific War" exhibits and artwork.

[gwhh]

I love how the crazy explosive guy.  Was the crazy Russian astronaut in the movie Armageddon!!

 

Love how Helen new BF is telling her how great she is in bed.  Those European woman are crazy in the bedroom.  Must be driving those American men nuts!  Glad she got the guy and maybe the bucks!

 

Must say Paul did a good job.  But I still cant tell if he has a kid with nasty British boss daughter or not??   Anyone else know what going on there!   Love his letter to the Colonel about giving up his British citizenship.  Wordy and funny!!     

 

So how long was Charlie dad was in jail.  I think its been 15 years and he was about 15 years old when he did!  Anyone disagree or agree with that statement??  Charlie dad is some piece of work, but than again so is his son! 

Edited December 3, 2015 by gwhh

[shapeshifter]

Most likely, they just meant Truman.

Because the pills would have been cyanide, not arsenic?

[molshoop]

 

Yes, great to see Frank back in the game. Seriously, this show could be just Frank and Liza and i'd be happy. And Charlie is much more tolerable when he's working with Frank.

 

          I so much agree with this.. My major complaint about this show is Abby and all the story lines she's been

          given.  I can't stand the character.  She is such a snoop, I wish she had found out about the spying and

          gotten herself killed.

 

           I'm sure the show felt like they had to have a young attractive couple in the center of things to keep

           viewers interested. But Frank and Liza are far more interesting as a couple and as separate characters.

 

           Even Fritz and Jeannie were better characters and a couple than Charlie and Abby.

[peeayebee]

I love how the crazy explosive guy.  Was the crazy Russian astronaut in the movie Armageddon!!

And of course the killer in Fargo.

[applecrisp]

With the bomb dropping will this be the end of the series?

[jrlr]

With the bomb dropping will this be the end of the series?

I can't see how the series could keep going after the bombs are dropped.  Much as I wish it could continue, it would have to move into completely different territory with political alliances changing in the world and a lot of spy and red-baiting stuff, and with the research (presumably) over.   

[ganesh]

Or because Truman is the 33rd President and the one who actually gave the order to drop the bombs, which is the point of the show. The show is a Greek tragedy of a sort for Frank. His actions are inevitably leading to this despite what he does. He's the one who proved implosion would work and set the USA down this path. 

[ganesh]

My major complaint about this show is Abby and all the story lines she's been given.  I can't stand the character.  She is such a snoop, I wish she had found out about the spying and gotten herself killed.

 

I'm wondering if she doesn't get herself into some hot water that being Charlie's wife can't get her out of. Nothing against the actor, but the story for her has been boring and really clunky. Plus, I think giving a woman a miscarriage/rape/abuse plot for 'character' is tropey. They're going great with Liza, so I don't know why Abby is so dull. She needs to be cut down by about 40%. 

 

I'm going to call massive BS if Charlie telling Abby about the gadget doesn't come to roost. Frank's recordings were used against him already and they were only taken out of context for screwing him over.

 

I think the show should end just with the decision to drop the bomb, not show it. Or, they could reincarnate the show for cold war weapons development. WWII was only about the race to build one bomb before the Germans. The cold war is about making a ton of bombs to outnumber the Soviets. It's a wider scope, the national lab system was built, there's environmental concerns, modern nuclear engineering academic departments were established. There's still tons of famous people to meet. You could just follow the remaining characters through the cold war till they died. You could have that show end with Charlie dying and the cold war ending, say tie it to the fall of the Berlin wall. 

I'm assuming Charlie is the deciding factor in the decision to drop the bomb, so the post-WWII show would be about him living with the consequences of that.