Felicity Smoak: Bitch With Wifi

[Guest]

God, my girlcrush is at DEFCON1 right now. Emily was so luminous and gorgeous in this episode, and her acting was so on point. Ironically, I think she showed tonight why Felicity the writers would never kill Felicity off. They need her too much for comical moments and honest, touching moments, and for lighting Oliver's way.

 

I had other stuff to say, but all I can process right now is squeeeeeee. Love her so much.

 

She was perfect tonight. And I know, I know she's not the billed leading lady but she felt every bit the leading lady tonight. I don't know what it was. There was just something about her. LMAO. I'm a sap.

[Advance35]

I LOVED the dress she was wearing and the hairstyle (which I didn't love in the photos).

 

Her entire scene at the Holiday party was hysterical (Until Damian showed up), her awkward babbling to Curtis and his husband, her tapping Oliver and then when he turns around, her walking  away. LOL.

 

I also really liked her scenes with Donna.  I like what the Donna/Felicity relationship brings to the show, its unique amongst the other parental relationships explored on this show.

 

Also props to Felicity for not relying on Diggle, Laurel or Thea to take care of her, though they clearly did the heavy lifting in the fight, but how awesome was it to see Felicity pick up that pipe and start swinging.  You GO Felicity.

 

And of course the scenes between Oliver and Felicity were awesome.   It's truly amazing, how much chemistry they have.  I cringe at public proposals but when Oliver did his I actually went "awwww".

 

Just basic thoughts, I'll probably talk details later.

[Guest]

I was looking at all the gifs of Felicity hitting someone over the seasons and I still love how she manages to look like she's not a fighter and she doesn't do it very often. Even when she was pistol-whipping Cooper it looked kind of unpolished and real. And then when she was hitting the Ghosts with the metal stick in 409, she looked like she was just running on adrenaline and didn't really know what she was doing but going for it anyway. I love that. I appreciate that attention to detail.

 

I've always said that I don't want or need Felicity to be able to fight but I actually wouldn't mind if she had a little bit of training like she did with Diggle in s1. Just some basic self defense so she could help herself if she ever needed it. I feel like that's something Diggle and Oliver would insist on.

[dtissagirl]

Yes. I really love it that EBR skips the posturing and the Zoolander stare that everyone else on the show favors. The OH SHIT WHAT AM I DOING look she has during her action scenes is what makes them great.

[Guest]

That's exactly it. There's no posing or anything. EBR is totally unafraid to look silly/unattractive. And I really love her face in 409 when she's hitting them and is like 'Aaaaaaaah I don't know what to do aaaaahhhh I'll just hit them and hope for the best aaaaaaaahhh!' It's totally realistic. 

[kismet]

I know that FS's superpower is her brains and her best skills are probably behind the computers. I will go on record and say that I would love for FS to become an actual fighter. Not an every mission extra set of muscle, we already have enough of those masks. But a legit trained fighter that can handle her self to a certain degree in the field on missions. Because I would love to see her needing to actually go into the field more for the missions and I don't want her to be a weak link. Plus I have always maintained that FS has some secret talents when it comes to weaponry.

 

As for EBR, she seems like she would be able to hold herself well in fight scenes, that they could up her choreography. And I totally agree that her current reactions to her fight scenes have been realistic and well acted considering that we have not been told that FS has received additional training.

[tv echo]

I kinda see kismet's point.  Why can't Felicity be both brainy and a somewhat decent fighter?  She doesn't have to be as good as the others on TA, but some fight & weapons training wouldn't be unrealistic given their chosen lifestyle.

 

Also, I noticed that male superheroes like Mr. Terrific are allowed to be both supersmart and a trained martial artist.  And how many movies have we seen where the hero is both technically smart and a physical fighter?

Edited December 16, 2015 by tv echo

[Guest]

I think there's a real opportunity for Felicity to be trained to use a gun. It wouldn't take away from Thea and Laurel's fighting skills and technique and it would be a 'just in case' method of defense. Plus Diggle could teach her and I'd finally get some Delicity scenes. 

[Password]

I've been yearning for Felicity-can-use-a-gun scenes probably since season 2. It's not ridiculously physical and it IS an equaliser. Or even some sort of very techie tazer.

[Guest]

I think training her to use a gun is probably the easiest and most realistic way to ensure she's at least protected if she's ever left on her own without the need to see her become a trained fighter. I don't need that. I don't want Felicity to wear a mask or anything like that. But some basic method of defense is necessary, especially now that she's been seriously injured.

 

And it's not like I'd want to see her out in the field shooting people all the time. But if ever they went on a group field mission, Felicity could pick up a gun and shoot and there would be no need for her to be rescued by anyone else.

[kismet]

Perhaps now is the perfect opportunity to introduce the idea of FS learning self-defensive training since the bad guys are coming after TA & OQ. So she is no longer protected just by staying in the foundry. She is a public target now.

 

For clarification - I don't want FS's training to out shine or out fight TQ or LL. When I say trained, I mean learning proper technique and moves. Practicing those moves like the expression "weekend warrior", not entering the elite levels of superhero. There are many levels between being a trained fighter and what TQ or LL is supposed to be. But in all honesty, the stunt choreography has been so poor for females since SL left, that perhaps they would have trouble differentiating between a FS who is trained to fight to protect herself and TQ/LL who are supposed to be trained to be superhero warriors. Because I look at the gifs of FS whacking with a bar and they look more effective than the majority of LL's whacking with her police stick. As for the martial arts, the only one I see doing anything really martial artsy is TQ and that is cool and something I don't see FS necessarily doing considering her penchant for skirts over pants.

 

Lastly - I do want FS to be considered a masked hero because I am tired of her contributions being brushed aside because she doesn't wear a mask or costume. It wasn't noticeable when there was only a few masks, but now that everyone except her & QL have a mask it seems like people easily forget how valuable and necessary she is to the Team. She is beyond a valuable asset to the team, so yes I want her to have a "mask" but I want that to be based upon her computer skills & her brain, not her fighting skills. Perhaps that is where her codename will make a difference. IDK, maybe they can give her a special earpiece or high-tech glasses to wear during key fight scenes ***so she can see stuff and can help from the lair without needing to be in the field***

 

Edited between the stars to add stuff - ***for clarification***

Edited December 16, 2015 by kismet

[Primal Slayer]

Laurel should take her to a shooting range. In fact just give me a whole scene with all the girls in a self defense class.

[bijoux]

I can either take or leave Felicity training. But I am very opposed to a mask for her. A codename is necessary and I think that should be enough of a mask for her. Should she ever be needed in the field and not recognized, they can put her in a black leather jacket and a balaclava. She looked cute in that. And black is not really a color one would associate with Felicity. It could be her best identity concealment, much like Thea's costume covering her navel. I still laugh at that comment.

[Chaser]

Personally, I think the show has enough masks. Codename, yes. Suit, no.

 

But she needs training. The basics at least. I'm hoping that they show her going through some physical therapy and I would love if Diggle insisted on modifying some self defense lessons to help with that. I can see Oliver wanting to keep her out of that aspect and I can see Diggle wanting to teach her.

 

I won't mind an episode that puts her in a suit and mask temporary. Maybe as a decoy. I think it would be fun.

Edited December 16, 2015 by 10Eleven12

[bijoux]

I would love Dig and Felicity to have scenes and if we're writing a list for Santa, that would be on mine. I'm just not getting my hopes up that it will be training. The way she handled herslef in the last episode makes me think that she has mastered some basics. What I'm trying to say is that yes, scenes of her training would be lovely, but if we don't get them, I'm just going to assume that she is doing it off screen.

[Morrigan2575]

I don't need or want Felicity to be out there in the field every night in a mask and doing physical fighting.

 

What I'd like to see if Felicity doing just slightly more than she does now.  I think (for the most part) they use her well when she's out in the field.  I loved that she concealed the weapons for Lyla in 321.  I loved that she threw the tablet at the LoA guy in 322 or that she snuck up behind the LoT guy and hit him on the head in 320. Same with the Fake Hoods in 201 or the way she took out the Ghost in 409.  Those work for the character, and so did (IMO) the self-defense move she used in 305.  I'd like just a wee bit more on the self defense front and possibly the use of tech/gadgets to aid in protecting herself.  So that if she's out in the field she's not a liability. 

[KenyaJ]

Personally, I think the show has enough masks. Codename, yes. Suit, no.

 

More than enough. In fact, at this point, Felicity is special by virtue of not having a mask, and I really hope it stays that way.

[kismet]

Well if she doesn't get a mask, than she definitely deserves a lot more recognition in show for what she brings to the Team on a regular basis. For me a "mask" would be the easiest way to do that. I don't want her in the field every week, but I want more of her brains being needed in the field over the comms or strategically before, which is why it might work to have her install or utilize more in the field tech to keep an eye over the team. Because right now without a mask, there can be an argument made for her that she is just there to something for OQ to have around to make him happy or guide him out of the dark. That she is not vital as an actual character on her own. Which I think is absolutely inaccurate, but an argument can be made.

 

Most of us here are supporters of FS and recognize her importance to the show and the team, so it might be like preaching to the choir. But without an acknowledged & visible upgrade to her role on TA, I can see how people can find her replaceable or insignificant to the team as a whole. She's bank rolling most of TA and providing tech/intel, but its very easy to forget that when everyone is on their group field trip to take out the bad guys. If you watch the FLASH, because there is only 1 superhero his team has to provide support from a far, so they are not as easily forgotten or dismissed. But even this season, since Cisco started Vibing I have noticed more emphasis on him and less on the other non-special team members.

 

I know it used to be important to strive for a balance between masked and unmasked heroes, but that was before everyone needed a mask to be considered important to the superhero portion & promotion of the show. Plus I think it would be cool to acknowledge that you can have a mask and powers based on your brain. That a mask does not equal needing to go out there and knock people out. Part of the reason, I am loving DD over other villains this season is because he looks so normal and yet is evil. His normalcy is part of his mask. I feel like this show needs to stop equating masks with only brute strength and violence.

[bijoux]

Well if she doesn't get a mask, than she definitely deserves a lot more recognition in show for what she brings to the Team on a regular basis. For me a "mask" would be the easiest way to do that. I don't want her in the field every week, but I want more of her brains being needed in the field over the comms or strategically before, which is why it might work to have her install or utilize more in the field tech to keep an eye over the team. Because right now without a mask, there can be an argument made for her that she is just there to something for OQ to have around to make him happy or guide him out of the dark. That she is not vital as an actual character on her own. Which I think is absolutely inaccurate, but an argument can be made.

 

I felt that this last episode recognized Felicity's unique skill set on the team well. Tracing back the phone to the evil HQ? Not viable with no Felicity there. On the other hand, they managed to organize a rescue without Dig, Thea or Oliver in a suit. Frankly, it made the rest of the team look interchangeable, not Felicity. This seems more of Oliver's problem this season than hers. They brought him back, claiming that they needed the Arrow to combat the Ghosts and then proceeded to sideline him most of the time.

[dtissagirl]

I dunno. I actually think they've been doing a good job of finding ways for Felicity to be a part of the action stuff this season. She's done all sorts of action-adventure-y stuff in 403, 406, and 409 so far.

 

I mean, I do agree that she needs some training in some sort of weapon -- and I really wish Arrow would go back to doing training sequences that served as beefcake for the CW as well as expository dialogue at the same time -- but giving her a mask accomplishes nothing in the narrative. It would be done for pure external reasons.

[Carrie Ann]

Well if she doesn't get a mask, than she definitely deserves a lot more recognition in show for what she brings to the Team on a regular basis. For me a "mask" would be the easiest way to do that. I don't want her in the field every week, but I want more of her brains being needed in the field over the comms or strategically before, which is why it might work to have her install or utilize more in the field tech to keep an eye over the team. Because right now without a mask, there can be an argument made for her that she is just there to something for OQ to have around to make him happy or guide him out of the dark. That she is not vital as an actual character on her own. Which I think is absolutely inaccurate, but an argument can be made.

 

I know it used to be important to strive for a balance between masked and unmasked heroes, but that was before everyone needed a mask to be considered important to the superhero portion & promotion of the show. Plus I think it would be cool to acknowledge that you can have a mask and powers based on your brain. That a mask does not equal needing to go out there and knock people out. Part of the reason, I am loving DD over other villains this season is because he looks so normal and yet is evil. His normalcy is part of his mask. I feel like this show needs to stop equating masks with only brute strength and violence.

 

I don't think I'm following this. You seem to be saying that you appreciate that Damien doesn't wear a mask, that that lack of costume actually adds a dimension to his character, that it MEANS something, and yet you don't feel the same is true about Felicity. Is that accurate?

 

Personally, I feel the idea that the Flarrowverse has put undue importance on costumes and therefore Felicity needs one to prove she's important is like saying that the best way to cure a virus is to let it kill the host. :) IMO, the show has put undue importance on costumes, therefore, it's critical that Felicity remains costume-free. I really don't think the show needs to give Felicity a mask because a small percentage of the viewing audience has a difficult time caring about or seeing value in characters who don't wear masks. That's those people's problem, not a problem inherent in Felicity's character. 

 

In fact, I don't believe there IS a problem with Felicity's character as far as her role on the team goes, and certainly not this season. Every episode that I can recall, she has played an important part in tracking bad guys or MacGuffins, and/or monitoring their movements while the team is out in the field. Maybe it's because she IS such a crucial part of the team that this work may become almost invisible to viewers, but that doesn't mean it's not happening.

 

Giving her a costume would only make sense in-show if she were actively pursuing more field work, and I don't think that's a logical or appealing avenue for her character. The highest and best use of her time is back at the lair, as eyes and ears for the team, considering they have too many costumed fighters in the field as is.

[dtissagirl]

I *would* like a ~Very Special Episode~ wherein all the masks get captured, and Felicity has to put on a superhero suit to save them for whatever reason, and by the end of the episode she realizes she neither wants nor needs a costume.

[kismet]

I dunno. I actually think they've been doing a good job of finding ways for Felicity to be a part of the action stuff this season. She's done all sorts of action-adventure-y stuff in 403, 406, and 409 so far.

 

I mean, I do agree that she needs some training in some sort of weapon -- and I really wish Arrow would go back to doing training sequences that served as beefcake for the CW as well as expository dialogue at the same time -- but giving her a mask accomplishes nothing in the narrative. It would be done for pure external reasons.

I agree that they should go back to having some training and expository dialogue from time to time.

 

I have enjoyed how they incorporated FS into the field during the episodes you mention. I guess I just want her position behind the computers to be more than having flirty dialogue with OQ over the comms. Back in s2, I truly felt that without FS present, OTA could not get the job done. I want that feeling again, that FS is just as important to the success of the mission as anyone in the field. I want them to really feel & miss her absence, perhaps that will happen in these upcoming episodes.

 

I'm okay with it being completely for external reasons considering that is why everybody else got their mask. There was little to no narrative purpose why TQ, LL or RH had to mask up, very little effort was put to making their journeys to the mask important. I few thefts & tidbit lines thrown here & there. Dig's mask was done offscreen and glossed over. SL showed up with hers, although her backstory proved that she earned it. The only person that actually had a good narrative around his journey to a mask was OQ and that's because its his show.

[dtissagirl]

I think EBR has said something to the matter -- that Felicity *doesn't want* a mask, because her place IS behind those computers, and that's where she's more powerful. I think there's more story in that. And that giving her a mask is 100% writing against character.

[kismet]

I don't think I'm following this. You seem to be saying that you appreciate that Damien doesn't wear a mask, that that lack of costume actually adds a dimension to his character, that it MEANS something, and yet you don't feel the same is true about Felicity. Is that accurate?

 

Personally, I feel the idea that the Flarrowverse has put undue importance on costumes and therefore Felicity needs one to prove she's important is like saying that the best way to cure a virus is to let it kill the host. :) IMO, the show has put undue importance on costumes, therefore, it's critical that Felicity remains costume-free. I really don't think the show needs to give Felicity a mask because a small percentage of the viewing audience has a difficult time caring about or seeing value in characters who don't wear masks. That's those people's problem, not a problem inherent in Felicity's character. 

 

In fact, I don't believe there IS a problem with Felicity's character as far as her role on the team goes, and certainly not this season. Every episode that I can recall, she has played an important part in tracking bad guys or MacGuffins, and/or monitoring their movements while the team is out in the field. Maybe it's because she IS such a crucial part of the team that this work may become almost invisible to viewers, but that doesn't mean it's not happening.

 

Giving her a costume would only make sense in-show if she were actively pursuing more field work, and I don't think that's a logical or appealing avenue for her character. The highest and best use of her time is back at the lair, as eyes and ears for the team, considering they have too many costumed fighters in the field as is.

I meant that without the flair of a costume DD is still a menacing presence. In fact more menacing than some of the costumed villains that have been tramping through the Flarrowverse. But in many ways he uses his lack of costume to blend in and achieve his wicked goals. So it is a mask that he wears, just not an actual mask. His suits are his mask and I feel like that is what NM portrays in his performance.

 

Because FS does not go into the field, what she does for the team does feel invisible at times. I know it is not. Trust me, I know they are reliant on what she brings to the table. But now everyone else on the cast is out there fighting in group scenes and taking down the bad guy while FS sits around computer banks not doing the "real" hero work. If they had less group fight scenes, I don't think I would notice it as much. However, now that they need to have the whole team physically tackle the bad guy all the time in the same warehouse together makes it seem like FS is not part of the team because she is not in those scenes when they take down the bad guy. It didn't feel like this in s2 when there was less muscle. But now they have more muscle, some of FS's contributions seem less important since everybody else is the muscle. There is no balance, so FS just seems like she is less team member and more like team coach/cheerleader.

 

And yes a lot of the reason I want her to get a "mask" is because the show has gone costume crazy, so why she should she be left out? Even QL gets to wear a uniform. I'm just saying FS needs little rank upgrade so that she is on the same level of costume superhero level. Seriously only if its like those Virtual Reality pieces that let OQ be part of the fight in s3. With this new upgraded lair, she should be able to design some sort of tech that allows her to be an extra set of eyes in the field and that to me would be a "mask" enough & she definitely needs a code name.

[dtissagirl]

I guess for me it has the opposite effect? Because Felicity is the only one with a unique set of skills, she's the one whose work I tend to notice the most, if only because she does something ELSE. And still Felicity has been present in the main action sequence in 3 episodes out of 9. That's a pretty good average for me, considering it's not even her narrative role.

It's Diggle who I think ended up invisible in the group fights. And Oliver got dilluted into an average hero. But Felicity? I have legit zero problems with how she's been written wrt the action side of the plot.

[kismet]

I honestly have no problems with how she has been overall written from a narrative stand point or an action stand point. I'm content with how they are writing her. So far this is one of her best seasons. I just want her to get a "mask" & a code name because I want her status to be elevated to everybody else on Team Arrow. Just a little more recognition from the team (not just OQ) about how important her role is, but the writing for her is actually fine. 

 

I feel like she needs to be given training because if she is in the field she should not be a liability. But they can just tell me Dig's been training her offscreen in her free time. But I'm a sucker for the imagery, so I would love to see OQ training her and that lead to sexy times, but its not necessary. And because I feel like EBR can actually pull off some fight choreography I would like to see her do more than hit people with blunt objects if the plot places her in the position to be interacting with bad guys. But the only way they could do that is to say that FS has been training off screen just in case, so perhaps the show can use this near death experience to do that.

[Carrie Ann]

I meant that without the flair of a costume DD is still a menacing presence. In fact more menacing than some of the costumed villains that have been tramping through the Flarrowverse. 

 

And I think that without the flair of a costume, Felicity is still a heroic, useful, impressive, other adjectives, presence, in fact more impressive than some of the costumed heroes who Blue Steel their way around the Flarrowverse.

 

But in many ways he uses his lack of costume to blend in and achieve his wicked goals. So it is a mask that he wears, just not an actual mask. His suits are his mask and I feel like that is what NM portrays in his performance.

[...]

And yes a lot of the reason I want her to get a "mask" is because the show has gone costume crazy, so why she should she be left out?

 

I mean, I think it's pretty clear there's just a fundamental difference of opinion in terms of how Felicity's importance should be conveyed on the show, so I'll drop it after this, but my response to your last question is: Felicity doesn't need to blend in, or to conceal her identity, because she's rarely in the field because that's not where she's needed. And she should be "left out" of the costume parade because putting her in a costume means nothing for her character, while keeping her out of one DOES. It's a point of differentiation--like Damien's compared to other villains--in addition to just being logical. Her "look" is her costume, as far as comic book-y imagery goes. And again, I just feel like, if some viewers have a problem seeing her value, that's the viewers' issue, not the show's, because the show continually shows her value and role on the team.

[kismet]

And I think that without the flair of a costume, Felicity is still a heroic, useful, impressive, other adjectives, presence, in fact more impressive than some of the costumed heroes who Blue Steel their way around the Flarrowverse.

 

 

I mean, I think it's pretty clear there's just a fundamental difference of opinion in terms of how Felicity's importance should be conveyed on the show, so I'll drop it after this, but my response to your last question is: Felicity doesn't need to blend in, or to conceal her identity, because she's rarely in the field because that's not where she's needed. And she should be "left out" of the costume parade because putting her in a costume means nothing for her character, while keeping her out of one DOES. It's a point of differentiation--like Damien's compared to other villains--in addition to just being logical. Her "look" is her costume, as far as comic book-y imagery goes. And again, I just feel like, if some viewers have a problem seeing her value, that's the viewers' issue, not the show's, because the show continually shows her value and role on the team.

We can agree to drop it... because I'm honestly in favor of 95% of how the show is handling FS this season and frankly I think we have similar fundamental beliefs of how and why FS is an important character. So I don't feel like trying to dismiss points when I actually agree with a lot of them. I just wish on a show that gives everyone else a mask for no reason because they are so cool & then uses the masks in promos, FS got a mask or at least a code name too. Because honestly everyone having a mask to me is just like a uniform jersey at this point for Team Arrow. I just want FS to have a uniform jersey too.

[kismet]

And I think that without the flair of a costume, Felicity is still a heroic, useful, impressive, other adjectives, presence, in fact more impressive than some of the costumed heroes who Blue Steel their way around the Flarrowverse.

 

 

I mean, I think it's pretty clear there's just a fundamental difference of opinion in terms of how Felicity's importance should be conveyed on the show, so I'll drop it after this, but my response to your last question is: Felicity doesn't need to blend in, or to conceal her identity, because she's rarely in the field because that's not where she's needed. And she should be "left out" of the costume parade because putting her in a costume means nothing for her character, while keeping her out of one DOES. It's a point of differentiation--like Damien's compared to other villains--in addition to just being logical. Her "look" is her costume, as far as comic book-y imagery goes. And again, I just feel like, if some viewers have a problem seeing her value, that's the viewers' issue, not the show's, because the show continually shows her value and role on the team.

We can agree to drop it... because I'm honestly in favor of 95% of how the show is handling FS this season and frankly I think we have similar fundamental beliefs of how and why FS is an important character. So I don't feel like trying to dismiss points when I actually agree with a lot of them. I just wish on a show that gives everyone else a mask for no reason because they are so cool & then uses the masks in promos, FS got a mask or at least a code name too. Because honestly everyone having a mask to me is just like a uniform jersey at this point for Team Arrow. I just want FS to have a uniform jersey too.

[dtissagirl]

Yeah, the idea of putting Felicity in a mask just so that the CW can promo her sounds terribad to me. I don't want Arrow to write for promos? Like, ever?

And I'm not sure I see this stuff about the rest of the team not appreciating Felicity. I mean, I could definitely go for more Felicity-Diggle and Felicity-Thea scenes, but that has nothing to do with Dig or Thea not appreciating the work Felicity does. I don't need the other characters to adulate Felicity like the writing insists on doing with Laurel. Lord, no.

[KenyaJ]

IMO, handing out masks Oprah's Favorite Things-style to any and everyone has watered down the masks to virtual unimportance. The fact that damn near everyone on the show has a mask now has rendered Oliver less special, not made any of the masked characters more special. So that's one of the many reasons I'm 100% okay with Felicity not having a mask.

Also, there wouldn't be a team without Felicity doing what she does, which is why Diggle, Laurel, and Thea needed her help while she was away with Oliver. I don't get the sense that she feels insecure about her importance to the team or that any of the rest of the team take her role for granted. To the extent that some fans do, I just can't bring myself to care about people whose opinions I deem invalid. LOL.

[Guest]

 

More than enough. In fact, at this point, Felicity is special by virtue of not having a mask, and I really hope it stays that way.

 

THIS. The show is overrun with masks now and I actually love that Felicity doesn't wear one. They need to balance the masks better because every character wearing one makes them less special, IMO. 

 

 

I *would* like a ~Very Special Episode~ wherein all the masks get captured, and Felicity has to put on a superhero suit to save them for whatever reason, and by the end of the episode she realizes she neither wants nor needs a costume.

 

I would die. This needs to happen. Also, let's get a cup ready for all those fanboys tears at the mere thought that Felicity would need to save everyone. LMAO.

Edited December 17, 2015 by Guest

[calliope1975]

After Oliver's new suit, Buckles, and Digg's Magneto Lite helmet, I wouldn't even trust TPTB to do Felicity justice with a mask anyway. I'm already a bit worried for what code name they are going to give her. (But they need to do that, because calling out real names over hackable coms is beyond dumb.)

 

Now, would I want to see Felicity dress up, just once, in some type of suit like they wear on AOS? Hells yes. I'd love Earth 2's Felicity to be a crime fighter or even a cheeky Halloween costume. But I don't need or want it everyday because she's a BAMF as is.

[Primal Slayer]

I *would* like a ~Very Special Episode~ wherein all the masks get captured, and Felicity has to put on a superhero suit to save them for whatever reason, and by the end of the episode she realizes she neither wants nor needs a costume.

Didn't we already get that basically with 3x23?

[Guest]

Didn't we already get that basically with 3x23?

 

No. Because everyone else was already out there trying to help save the day. None of the masks were captured which was @dtissagirl's main point. But this isn't even gonna happen so...

Edited December 17, 2015 by Guest

[Primal Slayer]

True but she saved the most important hero so it kind of counts to me.

[kismet]

No. Because everyone else was already out there trying to help save the day. None of the masks were captured which was @dtissagirl's main point. But this isn't even gonna happen so...

They might do it, but I doubt it since she'd have no support because there are no other non-masks, except QL so they might have to call in the FLASH non-mask crew but they have to do it before they all get their masks & alter-egos. I remembered when the Fight Club promos came out that we all discussed the non-masks saving the masks. I still think it would make a good plot, I just think its not going to be easy to write a believable plot that would capture everybody and still have FS be able to save them singlehandedly. Everytime the whole crew has been compromised BA has always come to save them. But perhaps it can be a crossover plot so we can have BA also captured.

[Guest]

They might do it, but I doubt it since she'd have no support because there are no other non-masks, except QL so they might have to call in the FLASH non-mask crew but they have to do it before they all get their masks & alter-egos. I remembered when the Fight Club promos came out that we all discussed the non-masks saving the masks. I still think it would make a good plot, I just think its not going to be easy to write a believable plot that would capture everybody and still have FS be able to save them singlehandedly. Everytime the whole crew has been compromised BA has always come to save them. But perhaps it can be a crossover plot so we can have BA also captured.

 

It's a great idea but I just don't see it happening. This show has a major hard-on for masks and their importance, they're not gonna have the one woman who doesn't wear one save everyone else.

[Chaser]

Personally, I would love to the next crossover highlight the non-masks. Felicity, Iris, Caitlyn and Cisco have to come in and save the day.

[Ceylon5]

I think Felicity single-handedly saved everyone (including lots of civilians) in 4x09 when she downed that drone.  And she did it just by doing what she's good at.

 

I think they've been emphasising her importance to the missions the same way this season as they have in the past.  For the 5 months they were away, the Arrow-less team managed without Oliver, but couldn't manage without Felicity.  From the first episode, she was needed to figure out where the bad guys were and what the plan was.  She's the one coming up with new tech ideas like the magnetic arrow, and she's the one who scared the card-throwing guy enough to make him decide to leave town (which I find hilarious).  She also gave a remote assist in the field in one episode using a crane to stop the bad guy.  And that's on top of her usual role of tracking people down and generally being the person who figures stuff out and directs everyone to where they need to be.  Plus she's been in the field (sometimes inadvertently, like in 4x09) a few times, which I always enjoy.

 

I think Felicity is the only completely indispensable member of the team at this point (and always has been).  They would have to bring in a completely new person to do what she does on the team, and I don't understand the argument that one sometimes sees that this "makes her replaceable" (e.g. by Curtis).  By that logic anyone is replaceable by some random new character who has been given the same skill set by the writers.  Fighters and masks seem far more replaceable IMO than geniuses, because apparently any existing character can become a brilliant fighter with a few lessons and a few months of practice, but you have to be born a genius, so those characters are harder to come by and have to be especially written into the story with their skills already fully formed (as Felicity, Ray and Curtis were). 

 

But more to the point, a character becomes irreplaceable not just for the actual stuff they do, but by who they are as a person and how they relate to the other characters.  Felicity is not only "the one who lights Oliver's way", but is at the heart of so much in the story, giving it humour and charm and colour that it sorely needs.  Without her, the whole story would have to fundamentally change.  She changed the show when they brought her in (for the better) and now that she's so deeply embedded at the heart of it she'd change it dramatically if she left (for the worse).

Edited December 17, 2015 by Ceylon5

[BkWurm1]

I kinda see kismet's point.  Why can't Felicity be both brainy and a somewhat decent fighter?  She doesn't have to be as good as the others on TA, but some fight & weapons training wouldn't be unrealistic given their chosen lifestyle.

 

Also, I noticed that male superheroes like Mr. Terrific are allowed to be both supersmart and a trained martial artist.  And how many movies have we seen where the hero is both technically smart and a physical fighter?

Felicity should have ongoing training to make sure that the skills that she does have stay sharp so I don't know why we couldn't have scenes of her training but unless they wrote it as her freaking out and demanding training (or vice versa, Oliver doing the freak out) I think any scene with her training would at this point be comedic and at this point in the season it feels like the show won't have time for a scene like that...so maybe next year? 

 

I'd kind of love it if she's just bad enough to be completely inconsistent (beyond the simple moves) and thus considered a danger to whoever tries teaching her.  Of course anything done at her expense would need to be balanced by a reminder of that whoever is providing training is a danger to computers. 

 

Laurel should take her to a shooting range. In fact just give me a whole scene with all the girls in a self defense class.

Honestly wouldn't both Thea and Laurel also need to be trained in guns?  Laurel can shoot a shotgun and can aim and fire a hand gun well enough to kill the fake Brother Blood at a fairly close pace but she's never been portrayed as an expert.  So yeah, how about Diggle takes them all to the gun range?  Oww!! Even better...LYLA takes them to the range.  :)

[tv echo]

Logical or not, the introduction of Curtis Holt has given ammunition to the 'argument' that Felicity is now replaceable on the team - unlike the masks who each have unique code names and comic-ky identities.  I don't agree, but that's the argument. 

 

So while I may think that Felicity is an irreplaceable member of the team even without a mask - not just for her IT expertise but because she's the heart of the team (and also keeps Oliver in check), I can also see how giving her a mask might help the perception that she's equal to the masked heroes.

 

Personally, I think there are too many masks on the show right now.

 

Incidentally, EBR is not inexperienced in using weapons on a show...

(EBR in Soldiers of the Apocalypse)

Edited December 17, 2015 by tv echo

[looptab]

A mask doesn't guarantee anything. They replaced Roy with Thea without batting an eyelash.

[Morrigan2575]

Who cares what other fans say? What does the show and producers say? Have they ever said that Felicity is replaceable or unnecessary? Nope. The narrative of the show has strongly suggested that Felicity is needed and irreplaceable to TA, Oliver and, even Barry.

Edited December 17, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[Ceylon5]

Logical or not, the introduction of Curtis Holt has given ammunition to the 'argument' that Felicity is now replaceable on the team - unlike the masks who each have unique code names and comic-ky identities.  I don't agree, but that's the argument. 

 

So while I may think that Felicity is an irreplaceable member of the team even without a mask - not just for her IT expertise but because she's the heart of the team (and also keeps Oliver in check), I can also see how giving her a mask might help the perception that she's equal to the masked heroes.

 

Personally, I think there are too many masks on the show right now.

 

Having a unique code name and comic identity doesn't make anyone indispensable on the team, though.  Look at Roy.  Having him gone didn't affect the team's ability to work well one iota.  Plus the team worked fine before either of the Canaries or Speedy or Arsenal were on it, which means that they're not necessary to make it work.  Take Felicity out for even one episode, though, and the team's ability to get things done is severely hampered.  Which is not to say that they can't simply substitute a brand new character with her skills (like Curtis) into her role on the team, but that merely emphasises that as the team currently stands, Felicity's skills are unique and she is vital to them.  Take Laurel or Thea out, and exactly nothing at all changes.  Certainly no-one new needs to be brought in to take their place.  Take Felicity out and you have to bring someone outside the team in to do her job.  So that makes her indispensable, in my book.  Yes, there are other people out in the world who can do what she does, but there's no-one on the team who can.  And that's what matters as things presently stand.  Any character can be removed from the story entirely, mask or no mask (see Roy & Ray, Moira & Tommy), but Felicity is special not only on the team, but also in Oliver's life.  To remove her would do more damage than any other single character on the show and would require the greatest number of substantive changes to the narrative, the relationships and the need for new supporting cast members.

[hogwash]

Along with all that, Felicity is also bankrolling the team. And there's no way they can get to that money without her around. The Roy comparison makes no sense either. Roy didn't do anything notable except die to save Oliver in a really cool fake-out. Everything about his relationship with Oliver and Team Arrow was centered around him being the sidekick. They even had an episode about him fighting another sidekick about being a sidekick. He never went beyond that. Compare that to Felicity and Thea's position and relationship with the other characters on the show. Thea for Roy was a good trade imo. 

[looptab]

 Roy didn't do anything notable except die to save Oliver in a really cool fake-out. Everything about his relationship with Oliver and Team Arrow was centered around him being the sidekick. They even had an episode about him fighting another sidekick about being a sidekick. He never went beyond that. Compare that to Felicity and Thea's position and relationship with the other characters on the show. Thea for Roy was a good trade imo. 

Personally, I just mentioned it to answer to the assumption that having a mask makes someone irreplaceable. What happened to him clearly means that is not the case :) But I agree that his place on the team (and the show) is very different from Felicity's or Thea's. 

[Primal Slayer]

Honestly wouldn't both Thea and Laurel also need to be trained in guns? Laurel can shoot a shotgun and can aim and fire a hand gun well enough to kill the fake Brother Blood at a fairly close pace but she's never been portrayed as an expert. So yeah, how about Diggle takes them all to the gun range? Oww!! Even better...LYLA takes them to the range. :)

I'm not sure about Laurel, i would assume that Lance would've taken Laurel/Sara to the gun range and taught them how to shoot. Laurel appears to have her conceal and carry so i assume she's fairly good at it. But I would a team outing.

[Guest]

I think it's pretty insulting to Felicity to say she can just be replaced by Curtis. Technically I guess he could do what she does on the computers (and I'm sure that's what they wanted people to think leading up to the big death this season) but he's a completely different type of character/person. Felicity has relationships with everyone on this show and she's worth more than her skills on the computer.

 

I mean, do they think Oliver would just go on as normal if Curtis was in Felicity's place? That the dynamic between Diggle and Curtis or Diggle/Oliver/Curtis would be the same as it was with Felicity? Ridiculous. They're not interchangeable simply because they can both hack.