Felicity Smoak: Bitch With Wifi

[Guest]

Hee, me too. I think the potential is there, and they've certainly put Felicity in the position to have that path -- regardless of how many hero characters this thread can agree on that she helped -- because her narrative role in Oliver's journey from Hood to Arrow to Green Arrow is pretty clear cut. They didn't only tie Oliver's humanity to his love of Felicity. They tied all of the superhero journey symbolism [the word "hero", the bow, the mask, etc] to her as well.

 

I definitely think it's plausible. Felicity will never be a costumed hero and that's fine. I don't want her to be either. They put too much emphasis on costumes as it is. But helping other heroes could definitely cement her position even more on the show if they wanted to go down that road. 

 

Who says only comic book characters should have destinies anyway?

[AyChihuahua]

Felicity is the woman in the hero's journey. Complaining about her helping him become the hero he's meant to be is like complaining about him becoming a hero in the first place. The hero's journey always includes a woman. I guess I understand being upset that the woman turned out not to be Laurel, but that ship has sailed, and it's Guggie's, etc., fault, for writing such a terrible relationship and not chem-testing SA and KC, not Felicity's.

[kismet]

Felicity is the woman in the hero's journey. Complaining about her helping him become the hero he's meant to be is like complaining about him becoming a hero in the first place. The hero's journey always includes a woman. I guess I understand being upset that the woman turned out not to be Laurel, but that ship has sailed, and it's Guggie's, etc., fault, for writing such a terrible relationship and not chem-testing SA and KC, not Felicity's.

The only caveat I would say is that in a hero's journey there is always a love interest, it is not necessarily a woman. It depends on the hero, sometimes its a male & sometimes it's a female. But there is always a love interest.  In this hero's journey the woman OQ & the writers chose is Felicity. That's just a fact, so FS is gonna help mold that hero's journey, whether people like it or not. And you're right on the complaining part :)

[SmallScreenDiva]

I think this is questionable. The first appearance of the character was supposed to be a one or two day job role, certainly, but by episode 9, which introduced the IT Department set, she was intended to be more. Amell's correct: you don't build a set for a character never intended to be more than just IT support. Note that the one character who was never more than just IT support until his sudden and tragic death in season two - the tech guy working for the police station - never did get a set of his own; they just threw him into the already existing Starling Police Department sets.

I don't think we will ever know exactly when the decision was made to move Felicity into the position of main love interest, but the decision to bring both Helena and Felicity into the Arrow Cave before Laurel is a pretty strong indication that they were considering both characters as potential replacements in the love interest role, as well as testing McKenna and Shado in season one.

Oh, you think TPTB may already have added potential love interest when they were casting for the character? I didn't even insider that. Intriguing.

I was thinking of Felicity's earliest appearances (certainly eps 3 and 4) when she was still basically fulfilling one role for both Oliver and Walter. I imagined that was how the role was probably conceived. And that role could still have been played by random tech folks in the early going. But yeah the role definitely got bigger by 1x09, the first time we see Felicity in her own office.

[EmilyBettFan]

I love Felicity. I'm so glad this show has her because other than Oliver (SA) and Diggle (DR) I wouldn't watch it. So they should really thank the casting and anyone else who had a hand in finding these three.

[SmallScreenDiva]

Usually you introduce them on the show to introduce them to the general audience, doesn't have to be with a specific character each time. People will watch the show with or without them being introduced through Felicity.

To me it is obvious that MG and co. just don't like to switch things up. They use Cisco the same way they use Felicity but for different things. It already annoyed me that they had Cisco name Mari alter ego Vixen.

Characters, especially well-liked ones, are often used to help introduce new ones to the general audience. Arrow is not the only show that does this. The idea that if Felicity or Diggle, because they are often used as guides or filters for the audience, approve of the character is used as an indication the character is OK. This season, Arrow used that technique not only for RP but also for LL, despite the fact the latter is not a newbie. But they were relaunching the character, so to speak.

[EmilyBettFan]

I understand that some people think Felicity Smoak is shoved down their throats because I think that of Laurel Lance. She is always getting arcs in each season and she stole Sara's entire identity. That why I can't get into her character because she really doesn't have an identity aside from being a lawyer. Her whole BC arc is just stolen.

[Morrigan2575]

Oh, you think TPTB may already have added potential love interest when they were casting for the character? I didn't even insider that. Intriguing.

 

I don't think that had potential love interest when casting for Felicity. I think they just wanted a character that they enjoyed writing for.  MG has stated repeatedly that he, Berlanti and AJK all prefer writing for that type of character/voice.

[tv echo]

Having one person be expert at all kinds of IT, tech or forensic stuff is a common TV occurrence.  Abby on NCIS has been running that lab solo for the past 10 years and seems to know how to do everything forensically needed to help Gibbs solve the crime.  Garcia on Criminal Minds is their resident expert on everything computer-related. There are numerous other examples.

 

In order to enjoy the Flarrow universe, you have to suspend disbelief about a lot of things, including: no one recognizing Oliver or Barry in their costumes, mirakuru, one-day murder trials, Oliver becoming CEO of QC, loss of CEO position resulting in loss of Queen family assets, city officials abandoning the Glades to a criminal, 2nd year ADA becoming Acting DA, insta-superheroes, Oliver defeating Nyssa, Oliver defeating Malcolm, Oliver defeating Ra's, less-than-a-year trained human beings taking down League assassins, the existence of metahumans (Flash), and now

miniaturization (Atom), time travel (LoT) and magic (Vixen, Arrow)

.

 

Felicity being an IT genius-computer hacker with some tech expertise (but with an admitted lack of expertise on forensic stuff) is more believable than any of those things or what's done on some other shows.

 

Here's what Dr. Wells said upon meeting Felicity in "Going Rogue": "Ranked second in the National Informative Technology Competition at age 19. Graduated MIT with master’s degree in cybersecurity and computer sciences. I know who you are. I keep an eye out for promising talent in scientific fields. It’s what brought me Cisco, Caitlin. And I foresaw great things from you."

 

Also, the CW's S2 character bio card for Felicity was previously posted on page 26 of this thread:

 

FYI, here are the S2 character bio cards for Oliver, Diggle, Laurel, Moira, Thea, Roy, Quentin and Slade (did you know that Laurel is a year older than Oliver?)...
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.307038822767490.1073741835.104137579724283&type=3

Edited September 21, 2015 by tv echo

[Sakura12]

I remember those cards and didn't even register that Laurel was older than Oliver. How did they even get their ages? Where are their birthdays listed? Sara's birthday is listed on the Arrow Wiki as December 25, 1987 and I don't where they got that from. 

[tv echo]

The official Arrow facebook page released the S2 character bio cards in October 2013, just before the premiere of 2x01.  

 

FYI, last November, the CW released S1 character bio cards for The Flash (Barry Allen was 25 when the show started):
http://www.newsarama.com/22689-the-cw-releases-the-flash-season-one-character-cards.html

Edited September 21, 2015 by tv echo

[Morrigan2575]

I remember those cards and didn't even register that Laurel was older than Oliver. How did they even get their ages? Where are their birthdays listed? Sara's birthday is listed on the Arrow Wiki as December 25, 1987 and I don't where they got that from. 

I think Oliver and Sara's came from their tombstones, the rest are probably character descriptions given to the media department and actors

[Guest]

I do not like that character description on Felicity's bio card. Her long term crush on Oliver threatens their relationship? They make it sound like she was pining after him or something and that never happened. I think we all know who pined after who in that relationship and it definitely wasn't Felicity.

 

Anyway...

 

I think the problem with Felicity being multi-talented and gifted outside of her computers is that they think that makes her a Mary Sue. Not only do I have so many issues with that term it's not even funny, but it's ignoring what's presented in the narrative. Felicity isn't perfect. She puts her foot in it sometimes, she babbles awkwardly to the point where it's uncomfortable (that scene where she welcomes Moira back after being in prison…CRINGE), she can be insecure sometimes. She can't fight. She definitely cannot use a gun. Any skills like first aid and basic forensic science she has simply learned on the job and points had been made initially to show that she didn't know those things. 

 

Sorry but if I have to believe that other characters are instant heroes after a few months of training (and I'm not just talking about Laurel here before anyone says anything) then I can believe that a woman with a genius intellect can learn things on the job over three years.

[Sakura12]

I think Oliver and Sara's came from their tombstones, the rest are probably character descriptions given to the media department and actors

 

Oliver and Sara's tombstones just have their birth years - 2007. 

Edited September 21, 2015 by Sakura12

[tarotx]

I guess Sara's birth date comes from "Years end". Though I'm not sure if they directly say her birthday was the 25th-just that Christmas was hard on the family because of Sara's birthday. If I'm remembering correctly....

[apinknightmare]

Oliver and Sara's tombstones just have their birth years - 2007.

Oliver's has his birthday on it, doesn't it? May whatever, 1985?

[Guest]

I'm pretty sure Oliver's birthday is May 16th 1985? I remember there being an influx of 30th birthday road trip fics back in May. LOL.

Edited September 21, 2015 by Guest

[tv echo]

 

[tarotx]

The internet wants to tell me Oliver's birthday is December 9th but that's probably comics...

 

And the reference over at Oliver's Wiki list the May birth date coming from "damaged".

Edited September 21, 2015 by tarotx

[Guest]

Where did May 16th come from then? I specifically remember seeing it somewhere! This is gonna bug me. Haha.

[tv echo]

This makes Sara the same age as Felicity, and two years younger than Oliver...

Edited September 21, 2015 by tv echo

[Sakura12]

I did look up the pictures before posting, I just was too lazy to post them. Lol. 

 

That's why I was wondering where the birthdays came from. I guess the Lance's mentioning that Christmas was hard on them was a nod, but not enough for me to get that Sara's birthday was on Christmas Day (according the Arrow Wiki). Oliver's birthday is also listed as May 16, 1985 and Laurel's is November 15, 1985. Which would make her a couple of months younger than him, not older. 

[apinknightmare]

This makes Sara the same age as Felicity, and two years younger than Oliver...

Felicity is 25 - she said so in Left Behind. So I don't think we should put too much stock in those cards. Edited September 21, 2015 by apinknightmare

[arjumand]

The internet wants to tell me Oliver's birthday is December 9th but that's probably comics...

 

And the reference over at Oliver's Wiki list the May birth date coming from "damaged".

 

Yes, that episode is when Oliver takes the polygraph test, and his May 16th birthdate is one of the baseline questions

[Guest]

I just clicked on the first page of this thread by mistake and so I read a few of the old comments and it's funny how people thought Ivo was Felicity's father. Makes me want to read some old comments from all the threads just to see what the speculation was!

 

I still really hope Damien isn't her dad though. I'm pretty torn about it tbh because I think Felicity deserves some focus of her own, same as Diggle, but I also don't want some creepy evil psychopath who uses magic to be her father either. Do you see my dilemma?!

Edited September 24, 2015 by Guest

[DrSpaceman10]

I still really hope Damien isn't her dad though. I'm pretty torn about it tbh because I think Felicity deserves some focus of her own, same as Diggle, but I also don't want some creepy evil psychopath who uses magic to be her father either. Do you see my dilemma?!

 

I feel exactly the same way. Although, I don't think Damien is her father, especially since he's being described as "pure evil" and it seems (from the small descriptions we've gotten) as though Felicity's father is more of a grey character. 

 

I have a feeling they're not going to get around to exploring Felicity's father this season, unfortunately. 

[tangerine95]

I kinda want DD to be her dad because I like the idea of her dad being a villain though i would prefer a tech related one over magic.They could still give Felicity focus if the big bad of the season turns out to be her father,i don't think it has to be all about Oliver.IMO its better for that arc to be related to the main story then for it to separate Felicity from it.

[HighwayFlower]

They like twists, so while I wouldn't be surprised to find out they considered DD for her father, now that everyone expects it, I bet he is not.

[Guest]

I feel exactly the same way. Although, I don't think Damien is her father, especially since he's being described as "pure evil" and it seems (from the small descriptions we've gotten) as though Felicity's father is more of a grey character. 

 

I have a feeling they're not going to get around to exploring Felicity's father this season, unfortunately. 

 

 

I wouldn't have even considered the idea if there wasn't talk of seeing Felicity's father this season and then DR said at one of the cons this year that we'd understand why Felicity was pretty much a force to be reckoned with (not his words) once we met her father. So it does make you wonder.

 

Although, as you said, it does sound like it's getting pushed back yet again. This is what happens when there are so many spinoffs to set up. We lose time that could have been spent on Arrow characters. Ugh. Seriously annoying. 

 

 

I kinda want DD to be her dad because I like the idea of her dad being a villain though i would prefer a tech related one over magic.They could still give Felicity focus if the big bad of the season turns out to be her father,i don't think it has to be all about Oliver.IMO its better for that arc to be related to the main story then for it to separate Felicity from it.

 

 

I would prefer it if he was someone who got drawn into the bad side and then couldn't get out or maybe didn't want to. I don't want him to be full-on psychopath villain. I like the idea that he's morally gray because I think Felicity has the tendency to be that way sometimes. I know a lot of fandom thinks otherwise but she can be ruthless when/if she needs to be. I love it. So I can maybe see her getting that from her father. 

 

The way Felicity and Donna spoke about him in s3 didn't really sound like evil villain though. But we shall see!

 

 

They like twists, so while I wouldn't be surprised to find out they considered DD for her father, now that everyone expects it, I bet he is not.

 

This is what I'm expecting now. 

[tangerine95]

I agree that Felicity is morally gray at times,i really like that about her character.I would be fine with him not being full blown evil but I feel like that could play out like Malcolm and Thea where he drugs her to kill Sara and show wants us to believe he loves her and should be in her life.

Edited September 24, 2015 by tangerine95

[Guest]

I agree that Felicity is morally gray at times,i really like that about her character.I would be fine with him not being full blown evil but I feel like that could play out like Malcolm and Thea where he drugs her to kill Sara and show wants us to believe he loves her and should be in her life.

 

Me too. She totally has shades of Moira sometimes, although not in a 'agree to kill the city' kind of way but 'do what needs to be done' kind of way, I think. Haha. Oh how I wish we could have seen Moira and Felicity join forces to take down Malcolm. SIGH.

 

I agree though, Felicity having an evil dad could play out like Malcolm/Thea and that would be repetitive. But there are actually a lot of similarities between Felicity and Thea (I remember seeing a gifset on tumblr a while back and was pretty surprised by all the similarities and parallels between them) so they could go there. But yeah. Definitely what we've already seen.

[tangerine95]

Moira and Felicity would have been an interesting dynamic for sure.And Moira would have solved the Malcolm situation in season 3 in like 2 episodes.

I saw that gif set,they have a lot in common.I think the reason they did so badly with Malcolm and Thea in season 3 was all plot related.They needed to shove Malcolm where he doesn't belong and give Oliver a reason to work with him so they used Thea to do it.I actually liked the dynamic Malcolm and Thea had in the final episodes of season 2.

[Guest]

I agree. Malcolm/Thea is interesting in that he loves his daughter but it's such a twisted version of love. Him being proud of her shooting him really says it all. But I didn't like how they used Thea as a pawn. In a way she wasn't really a part of her own story and it was all for dumb plot reasons and I could argue that it links back to killing Sara and why Sara was killed off in the first place but it would probably get me into trouble! 

 

But going back to Felicity to keep this on topic, I think if they wanted to go down the evil dad route, they could just have him completely devoid of love for her. Or that he stayed away to keep her safe maybe? Malcolm definitely didn't stay away to keep Thea safe. He's selfish like that.

[kismet]

I just clicked on the first page of this thread by mistake and so I read a few of the old comments and it's funny how people thought Ivo was Felicity's father. Makes me want to read some old comments from all the threads just to see what the speculation was!

 

I still really hope Damien isn't her dad though. I'm pretty torn about it tbh because I think Felicity deserves some focus of her own, same as Diggle, but I also don't want some creepy evil psychopath who uses magic to be her father either. Do you see my dilemma?!

I'm on the please don't make DD her father train as well. I just don't want her to have an all out absolutely creepy evil psychopath as her father. I want Papa Smoak to be morally grey, not absolutely evil.

 

I think there are ways to bring FS's story to focus that does not revolve around DD or the big bad. I actually think if her father was not the Big Bad it would give a greater opportunity to have her get focus. We all know the Big Bad has to be defeated by the end of the season. But a lesser bad can linger, therefore allowing her Father to come in and out of plots & stories, thereby solidifying her presence in future arcs. Sorta of what MM could have been if they didn't feel the need to make him a regular and link him to every plot line for plot reasons.

 

There might be replication with FS also having a morally grey parent. It would be a bonding point between FS & the Queen siblings, which I enjoy. But unlike, JB/MM if they don't make him a major season villain or a series regular they can have her father walk out again or volunteer himself again to protect his daughter. I don't think they will have the same beats as MM where he uses his daughter to his advantage. PapaSmoak left his family for reasons, which makes me think that if given the opportunity he would be more likely to abandon her again than use her. MM's first response at fatherly bonding was to use his daughter. PapaSmoak's first response, seems to have been to protect his daughter by leaving her.

 

Making PapaSmoak a major plot point of a season arc, restricts what they can do with the character and decreases his longevity on the show. I'm all for FS to get some focus on her story, but I want it to be quality and I want it to be significant. Not just a one and done to check it off the list. If her father is a lingering morally grey villain/anti-hero, then he can come and go as the series progresses which IMO is a better option for FS & her character arc.

[statsgirl]

Between Thea, Tommy, Nyssa, Felicity's missing father, Oliver trying to clean up Robert's mistakes and Laurel on the outs with Quentin, the only person on this show not having daddy issues is Diggle and that's probably because we know nothing about his father at this point.

 

Please let Felicity's father be grey and caught up in something he can't handle, and not outright evil like Malcolm, Ra's or DD.

 

Moira and Felicity would have been an interesting dynamic for sure.And Moira would have solved the Malcolm situation in season 3 in like 2 episodes.

LOL.. This was the woman who found out about the League of Assassins from a dropped reference to Nanda Parbat and contacted Ra's.  Maybe that's why she had to die, she was so awesome they couldn't have done s3.

[tangerine95]

I would like to see how Felicity would deal with her father just being totally evil with no redeming qualities.Maybe he would just want her with him for her skills.Though from what we found out from Donna he doesn't sound like he's totally evil so I could see him being caught up in dangerous stuff and leaving to protect his family.They could make him part of HIVE and loyal to DD which puts him against Felicity.

As long as they don't make him a big DC name that needs proping from Felicity,it can be a really interesting storyline.

One of the reasons I want DD to be her dad us that they have a great actor playing him,it makes me want to see him have scenes with EBR and CR.

[Guest]

I'm on the please don't make DD her father train as well. I just don't want her to have an all out absolutely creepy evil psychopath as her father. I want Papa Smoak to be morally grey, not absolutely evil.

 

I think there are ways to bring FS's story to focus that does not revolve around DD or the big bad. I actually think if her father was not the Big Bad it would give a greater opportunity to have her get focus. We all know the Big Bad has to be defeated by the end of the season. But a lesser bad can linger, therefore allowing her Father to come in and out of plots & stories, thereby solidifying her presence in future arcs. Sorta of what MM could have been if they didn't feel the need to make him a regular and link him to every plot line for plot reasons.

 

Making PapaSmoak a major plot point of a season arc, restricts what they can do with the character and decreases his longevity on the show. I'm all for FS to get some focus on her story, but I want it to be quality and I want it to be significant. Not just a one and done to check it off the list. If her father is a lingering morally grey villain/anti-hero, then he can come and go as the series progresses which IMO is a better option for FS & her character arc.

 

I agree that her father being a major villain restricts his time on the show. 

 

I wouldn't mind him being someone Felicity comes up against every now and then and they challenge each other with tech and hacking or whatever and Felicity maybe starts to look forward to it. I think that could be quite interesting. He just comes in and out of her life because he's on the run from someone and maybe he even helps Felicity and the team on occasion but only when it suits him.

 

I totally have this image of Felicity trying to out hack him (kind of like she did with the Clock King) and he wins or she wins but she's sitting there at the end with a smile on her face because it's her father. I don't know why. I just like the idea that he's this lingering presence not fully in her life like Donna is but there in the background.

 

I really don't want him to be fully bad. Why can't Felicity just be from a normal family? 

Edited September 24, 2015 by Guest

[bijoux]

One of the reasons I want DD to be her dad us that they have a great actor playing him,it makes me want to see him have scenes with EBR and CR.

 

This is true. However, I'm reminded of Peter Stormare, whose performances I usually really enjoy, and I thought he sucked up one side and down the other on both his appearances in Arrow. So I'm treading carefully with my expectations, although I did like what we could glean from the trailer.

 

I kinda want DD to be her dad because I like the idea of her dad being a villain though i would prefer a tech related one over magic.They could still give Felicity focus if the big bad of the season turns out to be her father,i don't think it has to be all about Oliver.IMO its better for that arc to be related to the main story then for it to separate Felicity from it.

 

 

Seeing as how Donna talked about feeling left out of Felicity and her dad's interests when she was as small as 6 and we know her interest in computers started at a really young age, that's what I expect. Also, I don't feel like either of them painted him as completely evil. As others have mentioned, him being a member of HIVE makes sense. Demian Darkh not so much to me. At least not at this point.

 

Me too. She totally has shades of Moira sometimes, although not in a 'agree to kill the city' kind of way but 'do what needs to be done' kind of way, I think. Haha. Oh how I wish we could have seen Moira and Felicity join forces to take down Malcolm. SIGH.

Oh, and Thea with her willingness to pull the trigger there to complete the trifecta. In the end, Malcolm would likely have simply evaporated into thin air from all the conflicting feelings of fear, love, arousal and psychotic glee when faced with those three.

[Guest]

Seeing as how Donna talked about feeling left out of Felicity and her dad's interests when she was as small as 6 and we know her interest in computers started at a really young age, that's what I expect. Also, I don't feel like either of them painted him as completely evil. As others have mentioned, him being a member of HIVE makes sense. Demian Darkh not so much to me. At least not at this point.

 

Same. I definitely see him as being a member of H.I.V.E. and he was maybe recruited for his skills. But from the way Donna and Felicity spoke in s3, I don't see him as the evil of all things evil. 

 

 

Oh, and Thea with her willingness to pull the trigger there to complete the trifecta. In the end, Malcolm would likely have simply evaporated into thin air from all the conflicting feelings of fear, love, arousal and psychotic glee when faced with those three.

 

Yassss. Felicity, Moira and Thea teaming up to take Malcolm down. Heck, let Laurel get a few kicks to his face for what he did to Sara. Sigh. What could have been...

Edited September 24, 2015 by Guest

[Guest]

From the Behind the Mask thread:

 

 

I loved Felicity when she was a quirky nerdy team member and I love Felicity as she is now, a strong, confident, complex woman who is much more than that 'quirky nerdy team member' that people constantly want to reduce her to. 

 

What makes her complex? 

 

Felicity is a strong confident woman who doesn't need a man, but wants to spend her life with one because she wants that closeness with someone. She wants to be loved and be in love. Felicity is morally grey yet usually is the moral compass of the team. Felicity is bright and has a sunny demeanor but when life kicks her down it isn't always like that. Felicity can be quite clinical but at times she can be erratic (especially when backed up against the wall). But what's so amazing about Felicity? Even though she's hurting like hell, she still puts herself second. She still has the strength to help everyone else before she helps herself. And when she IS being selfish for once? She makes it count. 

 

Felicity is STILL quirky and nerdy and it annoys me to death how people say she isn't like this anymore. Because she IS. But she's a lot of other things now too. She's more of a round character and I can't wait till the show gives her more of her own story line because that's just something that I'm sure will further flesh out her character in a compelling way. 

 

But hey, that's just my opinion. As the saying goes, if you don't love a person when they're at their lowest/worst point, then you don't deserve to love them at their best. And I think we can all agree that S3 was Felicity's lowest point as a character because bad.things.wouldn't.stop.happening.to.her.

 

 

Agree with all of this, obviously, haha.

 

But I'd like to know why some people want Felicity to stay the same as her s1 self. What is so bad about stepping outside the box of 'quirky IT girl'? I genuinely would like to know because I really don't understand. 

 

As much as I disliked how they treated her character in s3, I can't deny that she is slightly more fleshed out as a character. She has a few more layers. I know a few more things about her. But there's still so much more to know. I want to know how she deals with her father reappearing in her life. I'd like to know how she deals with finding out Oliver has a child (as much as I hate the kid storyline, it will happen at some point). I want to know how she handles becoming CEO and whether she'll rise to the challenge or if she'll struggle. There are just so many things that we would never learn if she stayed the same character as s1. No thank you to that.

[Primal Slayer]

I don't think people necessarily want her to just stay at her stay at her season 1, after 2 seasons of her being the lighter side of the show, her getting dragged into the drama like everyone else was jarring. Of course for me it was more the 2nd half of the season since it seemed like they wanted to kick her relationship with Oliver into full gear so she was constantly worried about him.

But I think this season will be a good mix for the charecter as it probably will be for most of them.

[dtissagirl]

Going into season four Felicity has one big advantage: the problem people seemed to have with her in S3 was mainly situational -- ie she cried too much, or she was involved in the melodramatic romantic arc too much -- rather than structural. The structural problem she had -- fitting in a narrative that belonged to Palmer -- has been solved.

[As a contrast, Oliver and Thea will still have to be written in S4 in a way to accomodate Merlyn into the story. Hopefully in a less pretzel-y way, fingers crossed!]

But even so, Felicity still had clear and defined narrative roles, and she had a defined function within Oliver's story. Those things will hold going into S4, so if the producers even feel like there's something to fix wrt to Felicity, it is just a matter of not putting her into situations like those of S3.

[Guest]

I don't think people necessarily want her to just stay at her stay at her season 1, after 2 seasons of her being the lighter side of the show, her getting dragged into the drama like everyone else was jarring. Of course for me it was more the 2nd half of the season since it seemed like they wanted to kick her relationship with Oliver into full gear so she was constantly worried about him.

But I think this season will be a good mix for the charecter as it probably will be for most of them.

 

But why shouldn't she be dragged into the drama like everyone else? She's a main character. What was jarring for me was how it felt like whenever she was off on Palmer island, she was on a completely different show to everyone else, complete with light tinker-y music that I'm assuming was for Ray Palmer and the ATOM. It didn't work.

 

I honestly don't know how Felicity could have stayed her quirky lighter self in a season that was depressing for everyone. If that had happened I feel sure there would have been outcries of 'She obviously doesn't care because she's not emotional enough!' 

 

They had to adapt Felicity's behavior in s3 in accordance to the theme of the season which was clearly to make everyone as miserable as possible. 

Going into season four Felicity has one big advantage: the problem people seemed to have with her in S3 was mainly situational -- ie she cried too much, or she was involved in the melodramatic romantic arc too much -- rather than structural. The structural problem she had -- fitting in a narrative that belonged to Palmer -- has been solved.

[As a contrast, Oliver and Thea will still have to be written in S4 in a way to accomodate Merlyn into the story. Hopefully in a less pretzel-y way, fingers crossed!]

But even so, Felicity still had clear and defined narrative roles, and she had a defined function within Oliver's story. Those things will hold going into S4, so if the producers even feel like there's something to fix wrt to Felicity, it is just a matter of not putting her into situations like those of S3.

 

This is very true. If the issue some people have is that she cried too much, well, that's easily solved. Although sometimes I wonder if that is just an excuse they use instead of the real reason which is that she's not from the comics. Not for all people, of course, and her crying a lot is a valid enough reason I guess, but some people just want everything to happen the way of the comics and Felicity gets in the way of that.

[dtissagirl]

They had to adapt Felicity's behavior in s3 in accordance to the theme of the season which was clearly to make everyone as miserable as possible. 

 

...Except when she was playing pretty girlfriend sidekick in the tinker-y music [hee!] weird ass sitcom that kept interrupting this show Arrow I was trying to watch.

[Guest]

...Except when she was playing pretty girlfriend sidekick in the tinker-y music [hee!] weird ass sitcom that kept interrupting this show Arrow I was trying to watch.

 

Ugh. I know. That was the worst. I was like 'WTF is this show, what happened to Arrow?' So jarring.

[dtissagirl]

Although sometimes I wonder if that is just an excuse they use instead of the real reason which is that she's not from the comics. Not for all people, of course, and her crying a lot is a valid enough reason I guess, but some people just want everything to happen the way of the comics and Felicity gets in the way of that.

 

To me it looks like a mix of the because comics excuse, and an unhealthy dose of internalized misogyny. Keeping Felicity solely as the quirky IT sidekick who gets the zingers and the funny lines puts limits into the character. If she's the sidekick then she's not a hero on her own -- she's only there as support to the masks. If she's the comic relief then she's not of importance to the narrative as a whole, because her function wouldn't be to move the story, but to comment on it.

 

And yeah, I also see it as trying to take Felicity back to a place where she wasn't so important to Oliver.

[Guest]

To me it looks like a mix of the because comics excuse, and an unhealthy dose of internalized misogyny. Keeping Felicity solely as the quirky IT sidekick who gets the zingers and the funny lines puts limits into the character. If she's the sidekick then she's not a hero on her own -- she's only there as support to the masks. If she's the comic relief then she's not of importance to the narrative as a whole, because her function wouldn't be to move the story, but to comment on it.

 

And yeah, I also see it as trying to take Felicity back to a place where she wasn't so important to Oliver.

 

I agree.

 

I definitely see it's a lot about misogyny because Diggle isn't from the comics either and I never see people say they want him to stay a certain way. It's a real shame actually, how prevalent that viewpoint is. Especially on somewhere like Facebook and IGN where all the comic fanboys hang out. When they don't like a female character or she breaks out of the box they happily have her assigned in, their first response is always 'kill her!' They even did that to Laurel for a long time, some still do. Rather than want the writers to take steps to fix the so-called problems or have a character evolve into something better, they want the female character dead. I worry for these people, I really do.

[tangerine95]

I think the people who want her to go back to how she was in season 1 just mean give her less screentime and importance and focus on my fave instead.For those peole there's nothing other then giving her way less screentime that will make them like her.Because she actually was funny this season too,pretty much the only funny scenes were with Felicity.Only this year she was also given screentime for a lot of other things too.

I mean just look at that GATV roundtable thing those people are the perfect example of those who want her to be less important to the show and they actually complained about her being too smart which has been her defining trait since her first episode.

I post on IMDB too,and I couldn't believe some of the crap people found to complain about when the trailer for season 4 came out.Like about her firing a gun or saying she's badass.

[Guest]

I think the people who want her to go back to how she was in season 1 just mean give her less screentime and importance and focus on my fave instead.For those peole there's nothing other then giving her way less screentime that will make them like her.Because she actually was funny this season too,pretty much the only funny scenes were with Felicity.Only this year she was also given screentime for a lot of other things too.

I mean just look at that GATV roundtable thing those people are the perfect example of those who want her to be less important to the show and they actually complained about her being too smart which has been her defining trait since her first episode.

I post on IMDB too,and I couldn't believe some of the crap people found to complain about when the trailer for season 4 came out.Like about her firing a gun or saying she's badass.

 

Less screen time or death is basically what they want. LOL. Although even that makes me laugh in a way because Felicity's death would have a HUGE impact on the characters and the show, particularly Oliver. It would only highlight her importance even more tbh. 

 

I still don't understand the gun complaint and I doubt I ever will. You only have to watch that clip and see that she can't shoot it properly. She's shooting with her eyes closed and aiming everywhere, hoping for the best. Doesn't make her good at it. At least she's saving herself. As you said, they'll hate on her for anything. Mainly dumb things. 

 

Also, you post on IMDB? You must have balls of steel, you know, metaphorically speaking. Haha. 

Edited September 25, 2015 by Guest

[tangerine95]

Less screen time or death is basically what they want. LOL. Although even that makes me laugh in a way because Felicity's death would have a HUGE impact on the characters and the show, particularly Oliver. It would only highlight her importance even more tbh.

I still don't understand the gun complaint and I doubt I ever will. You only have to watch that clip and see that she can't shoot it properly. She's shooting with her eyes closed and aiming everywhere, hoping for the best. Doesn't make her good at it. At least she's saving herself. As you said, they'll hate on her for anything. Mainly dumb things.

Also, you post on IMDB? You must have balls of steel, you know, metaphorically speaking. Haha.

I've seen people argue Oliver and Felicity should decide when they come back they are better as friends and Felicity should get less screentime and another LI.

I don't get it either,they obviously show she has no idea what she's doing.What is she supposed to do,not try to defend herself?It's the same thing as with flying the ATOM suit,I've had so many arguments about that and some people just can't accept that Ray did it on his first try with no practice too even though it was shown on screen.

lol IMDB isn't so bad at the moment though it does get ugly whenever Olicity stuff comes out.There are a lot of Felicity and Olicity fans there so it's not just haters.

Edited September 25, 2015 by tangerine95