Felicity Smoak: Bitch With Wifi

[wonderwall]

This sort of reminds me of a moment when I heard my parents close friend who died recently (I didn't personally know him that well. Only met them a few times). I felt sad for a bit but I quickly moved on. It doesn't mean that I didn't care for that person on a human level, but in the end, I don't KNOW him. I'm clearly not going to be as affected as my parents. It also reminds me of a time when my best friend's brother (I didn't know him. Met him once or twice because he was 8 years older) died when I was in high school. I cried, yes, and helped my friend through that difficult time but his death didn't really affect me in the long run. I don't think that makes me a terrible person or less caring.  

 

I guess what I'm trying to get at is, Felicity doesn't know Thea. But she cares enough about her to check in on her when Oliver's gone, to help bring her back from Nanda Parbat, to scour through the internet for her whereabouts in S2. Felicity cares MORE about someone she doesn't know more than I did about my parent's close family friends. She cared just as much as I did when my best friend's brother died. But there's only SO MUCH you can do for someone you don't know. There's only SO MUCH you can care about them regardless of who they're related to.

 

Felicity never had a personal connection to Thea, and I don't think anyone should expect her to have a connection with her at this point. Hopefully that builds in S4 and hopefully because they want to build a relationship and not just out of obligation to Oliver. 

Edited August 21, 2015 by wonderwall

[wonderwall]

I guess the real question is, what should Felicity have done differently to show that she cares for Thea on a 'human level'? Let the love of her life give up his life for something that isn't a guarantee? Moved in with Thea after Oliver became Al Saheem even though they barely knew each other to support her?

 

Because I'm wracking my brain and IDK what she could've done differently to show that she cares. 

[apinknightmare]

Obviously scenes can be interpreted in different ways, but at this point it seems like asserting that Felicity doesn't even care about Thea on a basic level is just purposely ignoring canon for whatever reason.

[wonderwall]

I think she could care for Thea on a human level regardless of never interacting with her. 

In s1 Diggle hadn't either but he knew that Thea needed Oliver following her arrest. That's caring for her on a human level. 

 

As for Malcolm and Diggle...the latter did have some objections about the whole thing but was more silent. Malcolm was purely objecting on Thea's behalf. Not giving a damn about Oliver. Felicity wasn't considering the ramifications it would have on Thea IIRC.

Obviously scenes can be interpreted in different ways, but at this point it seems like asserting that Felicity doesn't even care about Thea on a basic level is just purposely ignoring canon for whatever reason.

I mean even though I don't feel this way, it's like saying Thea doesn't care for Felicity on a basic level either because what has Thea done for Felicity? We didn't see her supporting Felicity or even care to interact with her after Oliver became Al Saheem. By episode 21 she knew Felicity loved Oliver as well but didn't offer comfort or support either. She just took Roy's address and left even though she knew Oliver and Felicity loved each other and Felicity was hurting too. 

 

To put only Felicity under the microscope and scrutinizing her so severely not doing the same for Thea is unfair. 

 

In the end, they're both strangers even though Felicity knew OF Thea longer than Thea knew of Felicity and her importance in Oliver's life because knowing of someone doesn't really mean a thing other than acknowledging one's existence. And even though neither know each other, Felicity has done more for Thea than Thea has done for Felicity (which is nothing). 

 

But that doesn't matter in the end, does it? Because Felicity doesn't expect anything from Thea, nor does Thea expect anything from Felicity. They're both on the same level right now in regards to how well they know each other and how far they'd go for one another and how much they care for one another.  

 

And who knows? If Felicity was the one that needed the pit, wouldn't Thea be just as sceptical as Felicity was if Oliver wanted to trade his life for Felicity? I think she would be.

Edited August 21, 2015 by wonderwall

[EmilyBettFan]

Felicity's "It's Thea" comment shows she will do anything to find her if she has to.

"No, but what I can't do Sara is argue about the same thing over and over again..."

"Go! Go get Thea. Stop Slade. End this, once and for all." From Felicity was all it took.

She cares about Thea on a human level. To suggest she doesn't is wrong.

[tv echo]

Friendship is a two-way street.  As others have noted, Felicity and Thea didn't even know each other personally or interact much before recently.  As part of TA and as Oliver's friend, Felicity has helped Thea in the past.  Thea has not done the same, but that's to be expected since Thea was not part of TA before and had no relationship to Felicity. Thea is not a child (any longer), she's an adult now.  She's fought and killed (both unknowingly and knowingly).  Because Oliver often treats her like a child, we may tend to see her as one and tend to think only in terms of what other people can do or should do for her.

 

Instead of focusing so much on how or if Felicity has ever cared for or done things for Thea, how about building a new friendship between Felicity and Thea - now that they know each other personally, and as the two women who love and are most loved by Oliver - in which they each show caring and help for the other going forward.

Edited August 21, 2015 by tv echo

[dtissagirl]

I kinda love it that Thea told Felicity in 321 she had NO IDEA about Felicity and Oliver's relationship? The show had kept them so far removed from each other, that anything else would have felt weird to me.

 

It felt like a simple way to course-correct the fact that these two had barely interacted before, and that Thea had probably never thought much -- if AT ALL -- about Felicity. Now they've had a deep emotional scene, and their relationship can develop from this point on.

Edited August 21, 2015 by dtissagirl

[tarotx]

Imo Felicity is what she's caring about at the moment centric. But that's just her first instincts. Once she is brought back from the fear or anger or lack of communication she isn't stuck on her pov and is willing to help or change plans.

I think she has mini inner panic attacks and then when her head is clear she can see the bigger picture(like in the s3 finale) or smaller picture (Oliver's love of Thea) as in this case.

Also I don't think Felicity believed the LP would save Thea. I mean hello nagic. And that was her jumping in point. While Oliver does believe in magic so they were coming in at different knowledge. So yeah Felicity not wanting Oliver to join an evil league of evil for an empty promise seems the right thing to fight for imo.

Edited August 21, 2015 by tarotx

[quarks]

I think she could care for Thea on a human level regardless of never interacting with her.

In s1 Diggle hadn't either but he knew that Thea needed Oliver following her arrest. That's caring for her on a human level.

 

In season 3, episode 20, Felicity was the one who was physically supporting Thea as they tried to leave the League of Assassins, and the only one of the three awake/alert people who asked Thea if she needed to rest - Diggle and Malcolm kept saying that they needed to move. That's caring for her on a human level. In episode 21, Felicity, not Diggle, was the one who headed over to Thea's apartment to try to comfort her about Oliver and to tell Thea that Roy was still alive.

 

Regarding the effects of the Lazarus Pit - the reason Malcolm was objecting on Thea's behalf was that Malcolm was the only one in the the group who knew about the effects of the Lazarus Pit. Diggle and Felicity had never heard about them before episode 20, and Oliver only knew that the pits worked. Nobody in that group had any reason to trust a single thing Malcolm said, so I'm not really surprised that Felicity paid less attention to the ramifications on Thea and more to the fact that Oliver joining a league of evil assassins, whatever the motivation, was not necessarily the brightest move ever.

 

Nonetheless, Felicity agreed to go, and her specific line was, "Somebody has to bring Thea back." In other words, she asked Ray for a jet plane and then trekked all the way over to New Jersey just to a) take the chance that the crazy hot tub might save Thea, and b) make sure that Thea wasn't abandoned in New Jersey.  New Jersey can be a very scary place.

 

I agree Felicity and Thea aren't close friends, but that's an overall problem with Arrow - friendships between women tend not to be a priority on the show. And it's definitely not just Felicity.  Moira's attorney said that she and Moira were good friends as well as attorney/client, and the attorney didn't even make an appearance at the funeral. (I realize that was probably actor availability, but still.)  Laurel's friend Joanna has vanished from the show, even though once Laurel was reinstated to the bar and working as an ADA, I really can't think of any reason why she and Joanna wouldn't reach out to each other for lunch or something, unless Laurel for some reason still feels humiliated about their last on-screen meeting, which seems unlikely? All of Thea's first season friends vanished after barely having any screentime or lines. And for whatever reason, even though Laurel and Thea had various scenes in the first season, and this season Laurel told Thea not to blame herself for Sara's death, the show dropped that interaction as well. Interestingly, Arrow occasionally seems aware of this - we got that conversation between Felicity and Caitlin about it being so nice to have a woman to talk to, and the conversation where Thea admitted that she didn't even know that Felicity and Oliver had something, so I'm hoping that awareness translates into changing this in the fourth season.

[Morrigan2575]

Nonetheless, Felicity agreed to go, and her specific line was, "Somebody has to bring Thea back." In other words, she asked Ray for a jet plane and then trekked all the way over to New Jersey just to a) take the chance that the crazy hot tub might save Thea, and b) make sure that Thea wasn't abandoned in New Jersey.  New Jersey can be a very scary place.

 

You just made the list missy!  

[AyChihuahua]

Sometimes people just don't like a character or actor.  I am guilty of that, because I hate Sebastian Stan (The Winter Soldier) and literally the only "reason" I can come up with for my totally irrational hatred is that he's knock-kneed and that screws up his villain walk.  However, it's one thing to dislike a character or actor, it's another to make things up to support that dislike.  I hate Ray Palmer with the fire of a thousand suns, but my perfectly rational reasons for hating him are based on things he actually did/said in the show.  I'm not arguing that he sucks because of that time he strangled a kitten, because, you know, he never strangled a kitten or was in any way implied to have done so on the show.  Felicity did not want Thea dead, there's simply no evidence of that whatsoever, and tons of evidence that she wanted her alive.  Not wanting the love of her life to become the head of a group of evil assassins whose current head is the whole reason Thea's dead[-ish], and/or being skeptical about the efficacy of a magical hot tub, does not equate to wanting someone dead.   

[quarks]

You just made the list missy!  

 

Look, it's sheltering an evil group of assassins with a rather terrifying obsession with Pier One Imports. I stand by my argument :)

[Morrigan2575]

Look, it's sheltering an evil group of assassins with a rather terrifying obsession with Pier One Imports. I stand by my argument :)

It's called, waste management... ;-)

[statsgirl]

I stand by my belief that Felicity thought that Jon Stewart's new gig was in Nanda Parbat.

 

As for Malcolm and Diggle...the latter did have some objections about the whole thing but was more silent. Malcolm was purely objecting on Thea's behalf. Not giving a damn about Oliver. Felicity wasn't considering the ramifications it would have on Thea IIRC. 

 

As quarks said, neither Felicity nor Diggle had any idea of the ramifications it would have on Thea.  Maybe if Felicity hadn't been there Diggle would have argued more strongly against it but since they were both in the scene, dramatically it was better to have it come from Felicity since her relationship with Oliver covered not only friendship but romantic relationship.  Also, if there has been a theme for s3, it's "Oliver Makes Stupid Decisions For Plot" so it's not surprising Felicity no longer trusted his decision-making abilities.

 

When Diggle and Sara were telling Oliver not to go and rescue Thea from Slade because it was too dangerous, Felicity was the only one who told him to go.  She was willing to have Oliver risk his life for Thea when the odds were high that he would get hurt.

 

This show does poorly with female friendships for the sake of friendship. I guess I should appreciate that Felicity and Caitlin are shown to phone each other occasionally. Felicity even asked about Ronnie!

 

In s1, Thea didn't need  Felicity so she wasn't even aware of Felicity's existence.  I can't even remember when they actually met although Felicity was aware of Oliver's younger sister and how he felt about her.  But there was a lot of time spend on Thea and Laurel; Laurel went to her father because Oliver asked her to but she did agree to mentor Thea and CNRI and was around for the purse-snatching that introduced Thea to Roy. That got dropped until 3B when Thea told Laurel that she had been the one to kill Sara. Does that mean that Laurel stopped caring for her?  No, although they probably didn't get together because it wasn't that kind of relationship.

 

Laurel's friend Joanna has vanished from the show, even though once Laurel was reinstated to the bar and working as an ADA, I really can't think of any reason why she and Joanna wouldn't reach out to each other for lunch or something,...even though Laurel and Thea had various scenes in the first season, and this season Laurel told Thea not to blame herself for Sara's death, the show dropped that interaction as well.

There was a scene in The Offer where Laurel went to Thea's loft to see how she was doing, and I'll give her the benefit of the doubt instead of thinking that it was to set up the "my friend has an evil father so why are you so mad at me?" scene with Quentin later and the Daddy issues that Nyssa joined.

 

Even if they couldn't get the actress who played Joanna back, there could have been a mention by Laurel that she was heading out to meet Joanna for lunch.  Hopefully with a woman showrunner, friendships will become more than just about bromances.

Edited August 21, 2015 by statsgirl

[EmilyBettFan]

But you keep saying human level. If no one on the show did something for someone on a "human level" that would make them callous. Especially considering how long you've been mentioning this.

What about Laurel with Sara. Instead of reaching out to Sara after knowing she was home, Laurel yelled at everyone and threw a glass. People can say "she was drunk," but, the first thing we see of Laurel when she sees Oliver is to tell him he should have stayed in hell. She wasn't drunk then. Then the first thing we see of her with Sara is her saying she stole her whole life and throwing things at her.

When in the narrative Sara shared with Oliver on the island that Laurel was the one who sabotaged Sara's chances with Oliver.

Edited August 21, 2015 by EmilyBettFan

[calliope1975]

And yea..Thea doesn't give a damn of Felicity...she really had no reason to. 

When Thea was kidnapped that was less of a human level and more of "save her from the psycho" .

 

I'm confused by what you mean about "human level." What is not "human level" caring about wanting to save someone from a psycho? Or encouraging the person's brother to bring them home? Or facilitating, awkwardly with your recent ex-boyfriend, transportation to the Nanda Parbat Garden Hilton and Magical Hot Tub Resort? 

 

I'm also confused by Felicity being held to a higher standard than Thea. Why should Felicity give a damn about Thea other than Felicity's been shown to be fairly empathetic to a whole host of people? Thea knew Felicity was her brother's assistant. She had to have seen them together repeatedly. She'd seen Felicity repeatedly at Verdant with both her brother and her brother's close friends. Why wasn't Thea shown to ask about the people who her brother spent the most time with? (And yes, I know this is the Felicity thread. I'm just not sure what discussion I'd be looking for by going to Thea's thread and posting on how self-centered she appears to be.)

 

In short, the plot never required those two characters to interact until S3. I'm more interested in their relationship in S4. I think there could be something good there, and I hope it's explored. 

[HighHopes]

Really? Come on 

 

And yea..Thea doesn't give a damn of Felicity...she really had no reason to. 

When Thea was kidnapped that was less of a human level and more of "save her from the psycho" ...I think she would've done that for anyone including Moira. Same with supporting her during the run from Nanda Parbat. I never said she was callous.

 

Again, I point to Diggle forcing Oliver to be with her in s1. Thea's life wasn't in danger but he still knew she needed her big brother. Human level. 

 

Felicity does care about Thea, and canon has shown us this. Wanting someone to be saved from the evil psycho is caring about someone on a human level. You said that Felicity didn't care about Thea on a human level, but then admitted that yeah Felicity did care when Thea was kidnapped by Slade, and she looked after Thea in Nanda Parbat. So which is it? Does she care or doesn't she? Does she want Thea dead or does she want her alive?

 

What else should Felicity have done to show that she cares about Thea on a basic human level? Asked her out for coffee when there hasn't even been an on screen introduction between them? (Not counting the season 1 hospital scene because Oliver never actually introduced Thea/his family by names). 

 

If I remember correctly there was another scene when Felicity told Oliver to stay with Thea and not go off and fight the bad guy of the week. I think Thea and Oliver were in the alleyway behind Verdant in this scene? So she was for Oliver going to go save Thea from the evil dude, but when there was still an evil dude out there that Oliver had to go after, she was for Oliver staying with Thea. 

 

Again, everyone is free to like whoever they would like and hate whoever they would like. But saying that Felicity doesn't care about Thea (and that is why the ahte is there) goes against canon. 

Edited August 21, 2015 by HighHopes

[EmilyBettFan]

Especially considering Oliver brought Felicity into Walter's hospital room and Thea saw Felicity in season 1. It's just that they had never talked.

[statsgirl]

 

I think she would've done that for anyone including Moira.

I think if Felicity would have been willing to risk Oliver's life for Moira after the mind games Moira played on her, she would truly have been a saint.

 

Which, fortunately, she isn't.

[frenchtoast]

[big Snip] Either you like Felicity or you don't. ... I think it's clear opinions can't be changed.

^^This, folks. This. We're starting to enter beating dead horse territory. Also, there is no requirement of proof to support an opinion. This is not a dissertation presentation. People are allowed to have irrational likes and dislikes.

 

What we aren't allowed to do is lecture, scold or verbally attack each other. Being mean to Felicity: OK. Being mean to other posters: NOT OK. The way you can avoid being mean to other posters is to talk about the show and not the posters or their
wacky (to you) opinion.

 

Please move on from the Thea and Felicity discussion. The horse is thoroughly and completely dead and it's entering being dicks to one another. Posts will be deleted without notification.

[Guest]

The only good thing about this discussion is that people are still talking about Felicity. When everyone becomes apathetic, that's when you have a problem so this is all good if you think about it. It's nice so many people care about Felicity and her part in the show. Thanks guys!

Edited August 21, 2015 by Guest

[frenchtoast]

Posts arguing mod notes will be hidden or deleted. 

[BkWurm1]

All of Thea's first season friends vanished after barely having any screentime or lines.

 

Taking to Thea's thread. 

[BkWurm1]

I did a rewatch of Public Enemy and there is this point where Laurel tells Oliver that they've frozen Thea's assets and cut off any means of him running.  Again, I found myself wanting Felicity to offer to embezzle a little something from some local lowlife.  Both times I've watched I've been surprised that she didn't. Actually after the show established that she COULD do it, I'm surprised that she hasn't. 

[statsgirl]

I think part of what makes Felicity admirable is that her embezzling is very Robin Hood -- when she takes from the bad guys, she gives the money back to the people it was stolen from or to a charity like Greenpeace.  To take money for Oliver, even if it's his own or Thea's money, would tarnish that.

 

Could they legit freeze Thea's assets because they suspect her brother of a crime?  That seems an awful stretch to me but I'm no lawyer like MG.  (Also, you can go on the run without money.  It's like when the Canadian government proposed a bill preventing people from flying to terrorist hotspots and everyone is all "you know you can still fly there from places in Europe, right?")

[kismet]

 

If I remember correctly there was another scene when Felicity told Oliver to stay with Thea and not go off and fight the bad guy of the week. I think Thea and Oliver were in the alleyway behind Verdant in this scene? So she was for Oliver going to go save Thea from the evil dude, but when there was still an evil dude out there that Oliver had to go after, she was for Oliver staying with Thea. 

Felicity told him that he was gonna hate her, but she asked him to plz not go. That was the scene that allowed Isabel to get the Queen's assets. If Oliver had listened to Felicity and stayed with Thea to convince her to sign the papers, they would have been able to maintain their legacy. Perhaps it also would have made thea feel loved & respected, so that she never would have gone with Malcolm.

One of Felicity's strengths is that she can see beyond the mission and prioritize relationships. Regardless of whether we have seen it onscreen or just in her actions, Felicity cares about people on a human level. If Felicity cares about a person, than she also cares about the people they care about regardless of how much she knows them. It was like that with laurel, thea, and others. It was always telling to me that she chose to join the mission because of saving Walter and nearly quit when OQ was going to possibly leave a boy an orphan because his dad was on the list. To me that shows humanity despite literal relationships.

[wonderwall]

I have a question... When did you start thinking of Felicity as a Hero? 

 

For me it was pretty late in the game but I thought that she earned her hero status when she stabbed Slade with the needle. 

 

It takes a lot for me to view a character as a hero. I mean I didn't even think of Oliver as a hero until he beat Slade. I thought Diggle was a hero from the get go though because his intentions were always to save the greater good, that and with his background, it was easier for me to accept him to be a hero. 

[GreatAtBoats]

I have yet to consider her a hero.

As for what would have happened if Oliver had listened to her about staying with Thea in "The Man Under The Hood," there's also the distinct possibility that Roy would have died. Oliver didn't get there in time to stop Slade from pumping a bunch of people full of Mirakuru but his objective was to try to save any innocent lives that would be taken by Slade whereas Felicity was more concerned with Oliver's family's assets. In the end Oliver failed, but at least he tried to do the right thing regardless of what Felicity was telling him was more important than protecting the innocent.

[quarks]

I first thought Felicity was a hero in the season one finale, when she insisted on staying in the Glades to try to stop the earthquake machine, knowing that if she couldn't, she was going to be in the middle of an earthquake expressly designed to destroy the area that she was in.  Risking your life to save people? That's heroic.

[apinknightmare]

Felicity was concerned with Oliver's family assets partly because they, you know, are what funded their whole protecting the innocent operation.

Edited August 26, 2015 by apinknightmare

[dtissagirl]

I like to think about it in terms of an on-going hero's journey, because making "hero" a status of being kinda turns it into nothing more than a label. I consider a character a hero if they choose to do heroic things time and time again.

 

I do agree that the S1 finale was the first big heroic thing Felicity did, but imo, her hero's journey started when she decided to join the team because she wanted to save Walter.

[apinknightmare]

Not to mention the fact that someone can be both heroic and occasionally selfish (if you can even call it that, since Felicity had nothing to gain personally from Oliver retaining his family's assets, and she was concerned about keeping him ALIVE in the S3 finale). I mean, she stayed behind during an earthquake to help Quentin figure out how to defuse the earthquake machine. She offered herself up to help find a serial killer. She allowed herself to be used as bait so she could get close enough to inject Slade with a mirakuru cure. Telling Oliver to get Thea to sign those papers above all else changes absolutely none of that.

[dtissagirl]

The idea that for someone to be a hero they have to abdicate from having goals, and feelings, and happiness escapes my mind entirely. Personal sacrifice =/= heroic acts. That's what Oliver was doing in S3 that made me want to sit him down and OH, HONEY, NO him to oblivion.

[Guest]

Like @quarks, I thought Felicity was a hero in the s1 finale when she stayed behind in the Glades to stop the earthquake device. She easily could have died that day but that didn't matter to her. That's incredibly heroic considering she only started helping Oliver and Diggle just so she could find Walter. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

Definitely by the end of season 1. Staying behind to help defuse the bomb, knowing she was in the middle of the danger zone and could die, I thought that was incredibly heroic.

 

An RL friend of mine had written something about this on Tumblr this summer. Not specifically about Felicity being a hero, but how the show has taken pains in the last 3 season finales to spotlight her in such a role, something it has actually never done for any other character aside from Oliver and Diggle: helping stop the earthquake machine in S1, allowing herself to be used as bait for Slade in S2 and finding the virus hot spots as well as saving Oliver from death in S3. 

[Chaser]

My guess is the spotlight on Felicitys heroics is to establish her as a real partner to The Green Arrow.

I just wish it would be acknowledged in verse. Diggle was finally called hero, it's Felicitys turn.

Diggle was called a Hero by Oliver right? By the elevator?

[tarotx]

I think trying to find Walter made her a hero. But perhaps that was just an everyday hero thing? Was the Glades the first time she acted when there was present danger to her?. Maybe when she started getting her Confidence as to being there is when she became a hero? Before that she was just doing heroic things? I still say it was helping to find Walter.

Edited August 26, 2015 by tarotx

[SmallScreenDiva]

It's not always the case but the element of sacrifice is a often a component of heroism, at least the kind of heroism that becomes legendary, so to speak. I think that's why I consider her part in the S1 finale Felicity's "hero" moment even though she'd played a part in helping and saving people's lives before.

[dtissagirl]

It's not always the case but the element of sacrifice is a often a component of heroism, at least the kind of heroism that becomes legendary, so to speak. I think that's why I consider her part in the S1 finale Felicity's "hero" moment even though she'd played a part in helping and saving people's lives before.

 

Yes, definitely. I meant personal sacrifice not in terms of putting one's life in danger to save other people, that's obviously heroic. I meant more in terms of sacrificing having a life -- friends, family, happiness, goals -- to be a hero. Heroic acts are often self-sacrificing. But "I can't have a relationship because that's what being a hero is" = no, son.

[Guest]

An RL friend of mine had written something about this on Tumblr this summer. Not specifically about Felicity being a hero, but how the show has taken pains in the last 3 season finales to spotlight her in such a role, something it has actually never done for any other character aside from Oliver and Diggle: helping stop the earthquake machine in S1, allowing herself to be used as bait for Slade in S2 and finding the virus hot spots as well as saving Oliver from death in S3. 

 

I think they spotlight Felicity in the season finales because people easily dismiss her as not being a hero just because she doesn't wear a mask. I see it as a way of reminding the audience that she's every bit a hero as those wearing a costume.

[tarotx]

I think continuing searching for Walter put Felicity's life in danger. I mean look who all died because of those names and doing investigation into them.

Edited August 26, 2015 by tarotx

[dtissagirl]

There's also an aspect of Felicity's hero's journey that I really truly enjoy, in that she doesn't see it as a burden. She spent the five years between Cooper's [fake] suicide and meeting Oliver living a boring, dull, lonely life, and suddenly here's this opportunity to do something great. I think she's always been aware of the journey itself, you know? It brings her satisfaction, and self-fulfillment, to be able to use her skills to help other heroes, and the city.

[wonderwall]

I think Felicity is a hero born out of choice. She wanted to do good when she was young but failed and got her boyfriend killed. She retreated and started to live a boring life. Then oliver comes through her doors presenting the same opportunity to help people and she jumps at the chance. Only this time, she doesn't make the same mistakes. She helps people the right way. Well, as right as it can be.

Diggle is a hero born out of necessity especially after he enlisted.

Oliver is a hero because he had that choice thrust upon him.

They're all heroes for different reasons.

[statsgirl]

I like to think about it in terms of an on-going hero's journey, because making "hero" a status of being kinda turns it into nothing more than a label. I consider a character a hero if they choose to do heroic things time and time again.

 

I do agree that the S1 finale was the first big heroic thing Felicity did, but imo, her hero's journey started when she decided to join the team because she wanted to save Walter.

For me, it was when she quit the team at the start of The Dodger because she didn't want to be part of a single father being killed.  Standing up to Oliver Queen, much less The Hood, takes guts.  But like Diggle making Oliver pay for the policeman's medical bills and Tommy's death later, it helped push Oliver away from his single-minded murderous crusade.

 

Or maybe it was even earlier when she trusted Oliver with the notebook Walter had given her in spite of his ridiculous lies.  And later, the many times she did things she was afraid of, like the elevator swing, or jumping out of a plane, or bait for the Dollmaker, because it needed to be done.

 

I think Diggle's progression to being a hero was incremental too.  Yes, he fought three tours in the military but for me it was when he decided to join Oliver's crusade partly about Andy's killer but also to save Oliver from being consumed by what he was about to do.

[Chaser]

Responding to a post (that my computer refuses to quote) from the News Thread:

 

I agree that a large problem Felicity had this season was a lack of warmth in her interactions with Oliver. Eps 11 - 15 / 17 were hard for me as a Felicity fan to watch. I agreed with what Felicity said, but there was no humor or kindness to balance out the agrument. It's one of the reasons I enjoyed The Offer so much. It felt like Felicity came back. She disagreed with him, but she softened the approach and actually talked to him about what was going on. Then 17 shot that in the foot for Ray...before getting it back for the rest of the season.

 

I've decided to ignore those episodes listed. I know its canon and yada yada yada, but they were so plot contrived that for my sanity I just need to ignore them.

 

Personally, I loved the Felicity from eps 1 - 10 and 16 and 20 and 23. No problems what so ever there.

Edited August 28, 2015 by 10Eleven12

[Guest]

I agree that a large problem Felicity had this season was a lack of warmth in her interactions with Oliver. Eps 11 - 15 / 17 were hard for me as a Felicity fan to watch. I agreed with what Felicity said, but there was no humor or kindness to balance out the agrument. It's one of the reasons I enjoyed The Offer so much. It felt like Felicity came back. She disagreed with him, but she softened the approach and actually talked to him about what was going on. Then 17 shot that in the foot for Ray...before getting it back for the rest of the season.

 

I've decided to ignore those episodes listed. I know its canon and yada yada yada, but they were so plot contrived that for my sanity I just need to ignore them.

 

Personally, I loved the Felicity from eps 1 - 10 and 16 and 20 and 23. No problems what so ever there.

 

THIS. Yeah, even as a Felicity fan I can't deny that I found some of her actions difficult in s3. I understand most of them though, which probably makes it easier to excuse. But there were times when she was quite cold, sometimes too cold, and it wasn't the Felicity I knew and loved. And I don't even want to get into how she was around Ray. Apologizing to him at the end of 317 was gross. Yeah, sure, let's apologize to the man who accused you of not being able to separate feelings and then went after your friends and team members and basically electrocuted one of them. What the hell. 

 

The Offer was definitely a bright spot because it really did feel like pod Felicity had gone and the real one was back, all because Oliver and Felicity were allowed to act like they normally do together. There was support and friendship and no contrived distance, even though they still hadn't figured things out. I still feel one of the main problems last season was the forced way they decided to keep them apart romantically. I think it could have been done a lot better with much less anger but what's done is done now. 

Edited August 28, 2015 by Guest

[tarotx]

Yeah my post should have been in here. It's hard not to just comment on the articles in that thread.

My Problem with Felicity this season was they moved her into the Adversarial/counter Oliver position Laural had the first 2(3) seasons. Some of it felt organic to the character but some of it was so not her. Felicity has never been one to always agree with Oliver but the way it was done this season was just stripped of the warmth that she usually had before this season. Plus the show never replaced a more positive outlook person on the show so everbody was just depressing. Though I guess they thought Ray was replacement but yeah-no.

And her crying to Laurel just was unnessary and imo was only left in to keep Laurel in the episode. Big mistake imo

I personally really enjoyed Felicity in episode 20 and the finale. I loved her in the ATOM suit. Oliver was adorable as she. How can you not enjoy that?

[wonderwall]

What makes me feel good about Felicity's arc this year is that WM is now an EP. And I just loved everything she said re:Felicity over the summer. My favorite thing that she said was that Felicity is a soldier just like Oliver. I never thought of Felicity as a soldier, but I see it now. It makes me feel like Felicity's season arc is going to be more than her romantic entanglements which I'm thankful for. 

Edited August 29, 2015 by wonderwall

[Guest]

From relationships thread:

 

 

What's funny to me is how much media mileage the show gets out of Felicity's action scenes. I mean, everybody was talking about ATOM Felicity whether they loved it or not. Say Tablet of Doom and everybody knows what scene because it's been featured on various sites, including the comic-focused ones. This machine-gun scene was on many sites' "most awesome" moments of the Season 4 trailer. I love it when Felicity gets to do this. Stunts that involve characters I do not like? *shrug* Don't care. They don't even register unless they are fantastically stupid (such as jumping at a helicopter or jumping off a building without a rope).

 

 

Agreed. I think it's because it's something a bit different. In a universe of archers and jumping off buildings and flawless moves, there's something really endearing and watchable about Felicity giving it her all and just sort of hoping for the best. I put a lot of that on EBR and how she reacts to things.

 

I still smile at the Tablet of Doom thing. I laughed for so long over that. Her little face was so pleased that she'd taken one of the LOA down and then she saw it was Malcolm. Priceless!

Edited September 8, 2015 by Guest

[TanyaKay]

From relationships thread:

Agreed. I think it's because it's something a bit different. In a universe of archers and jumping off buildings and flawless moves, there's something really endearing and watchable about Felicity giving it her all and just sort of hoping for the best. I put a lot of that on EBR and how she reacts to things.

I still smile at the Tablet of Doom thing. I laughed for so long over that. Her little face was so pleased that she'd taken one of the LOA down and then she saw it was Malcolm. Priceless!

It is not just tablet of doom, but everything that she does automatically becomes a brand and a sorta iconic moment. Whether it is them Zip lining in the elevator shaft or Oliver saving her from a land mine in Lian Yu, her interrogation and labelling herself as 'bitch with wifi' or her wearing the Atom suit, everything becomes the signature move of that particular episode and people remember it for long. There are already comparisons out that when they had to take up arms, both Oliver and Felicity started off with machine guns. I think it is very smart that they are using the things that interest the audience for marketing instead of regular boring stuff.