Felicity Smoak: Bitch With Wifi

[wonderwall]

Oh! I got another one. Remember how Felicity was selfish because she let the bad guys get away in episode 10 by shutting the doors on diggle and Roy even though they were already beaten to a pulp and couldn't have gotten the files anyways?

Lmao

[Balaclava]

There's a petition to "kill Olicity" and "edit Felicity" (and by edit, they mean to turn her back to minor quirky sidekick) that had gotten at least 500 signatures last time I looked. I know it doesn't affect the show, and hate counts just as much as love as far as creating buzz is concerned, but I've just never seen that level of action against any other character on the show. And it's especially jarring because Felicity was so well liked.

All the blind hate makes it hard to hear fact-based criticism about the writing for her this year, mainly that her storylines revolved around being the emotional prop for nearly every character (Oliver, Ray, Laurel, Barry), she never got credit for her part in building the super suit (but at least she got to wear it), and yes, her part in the love triangle, which she is bearing more criticism for than Ray or Oliver.

 

There was also a no-olicity petition that didn't had that many signatures, and as an answer to that a more olicity petition was made that had more than 2500 signatures in 2 days.

But before all of that, there was a petition to get Marc Guggenheim fired, and then one to get Stephen Amell and Emily Bett Rickards fired.

I'm sure those petitions don't count for anything, besides the fact that it made me realize some people take their frustrations with the show a bit to far. Advocating for people to lose their jobs is childish, to say the least about it.

 

Regarding the hate towards Felicity that i saw in some places, i wish i could say some of it is logical and has reasons to exist, but to be honest i don't .

All i see is hate that, in is core,is based on comic book canon agendas. The fact that Felicity is THE love interest, that Olicity is now together and that she's deeply connected to Oliver's hero journey (all of this made canon by the show) just infuriated some people even more, to the extend of using anything to complain. Basically some people are just nitpicking.

One thing to me that proves there's not that much hate towards her,like some would like others to believe, is that she's winning polls and for every comment hating on her you can find 3 or 4 saying how much she's loved.

[AyChihuahua]

I am 100% down with Guggenheim being fired.  

[dtissagirl]

http://tvline.com/gallery/felicity-smoak-best-quotes-arrow-photos/

TVLine posted their collection of favorite Felicity quotes, now including all of S3 [and The Flash], and right after, "Felicity Smoak" spontaneously trended on Twitter. Pretty sure that speaks louder than hateful comments on unreputable sites and the cess pool that are Facebook comments.

Golden rule of life: don't read the comments.

Edited May 26, 2015 by dancingnancy

[wonderwall]

I never really understood where all the "Felicity is a mary-sue" talk came from. IMO she has a lot of faults/issues: 

 

• Felicity tends to say cruel things when she's emotionally compromised
• Felicity's knee jerk reaction is to save the people she loves first -- then deal with the consequences (saving Digg/Roy, saving Oliver twice)
• Can tend to not look at the bigger picture (why Oliver has to team up with Malcolm is one example) 
• Tends to be inappropriate at times
• More morally grey than people tend to realize. She's okay with Oliver killing Ra's and in season 2 accepted that killing was part of the deal and didn't think anything of it (well, not at first but accepted it afterwards)
• Can be really hard headed especially concerning subjects she feels strongly about
• Is a little desperate to have someone in her life romantically -- She just wants to be loved, to the point where she dates Ray and forgives him/overlooks his douchey behavior. She even quickly forgave Oliver but at least she gave him some piece of mind. 
• SHE WEARS HEELS OUT INTO THE FIELD. Come on Felicity :p 
• She can tend to have an ego considering just how much of a genius she is

 

I mean I'm sure there's more. But Felicity is most definitely not a mary-sue. 

 

Note how most of these characteristics arose in season 3, some in season 2, and none in season 1. I think that's why people are pissed off. They want Felicity to be that perfectly flat nerdy girl with no faults... Yeah, no. I don't want that at all.

[jay741982]

I never really understood where all the "Felicity is a mary-sue" talk came from. IMO she has a lot of faults/issues: 

 

• Felicity tends to say cruel things when she's emotionally compromised
• Felicity's knee jerk reaction is to save the people she loves first -- then deal with the consequences (saving Digg/Roy, saving Oliver twice)
• Can tend to not look at the bigger picture (why Oliver has to team up with Malcolm is one example) 
• Tends to be inappropriate at times
• More morally grey than people tend to realize. She's okay with Oliver killing Ra's and in season 2 accepted that killing was part of the deal and didn't think anything of it (well, not at first but accepted it afterwards)
• Can be really hard headed especially concerning subjects she feels strongly about
• Is a little desperate to have someone in her life romantically -- She just wants to be loved, to the point where she dates Ray and forgives him/overlooks his douchey behavior. She even quickly forgave Oliver but at least she gave him some piece of mind. 
• SHE WEARS HEELS OUT INTO THE FIELD. Come on Felicity :p 
• She can tend to have an ego considering just how much of a genius she is

 

I mean I'm sure there's more. But Felicity is most definitely not a mary-sue. 

 

Note how most of these characteristics arose in season 3, some in season 2, and none in season 1. I think that's why people are pissed off. They want Felicity to be that perfectly flat nerdy girl with no faults... Yeah, no. I don't want that at all.

Agreed that's she no Mary sue that's what I love about her. How is it a fault that she hated Oliver working with Scum like Malcolm? Her problem was you can't trust him which they can't

[lemotomato]

http://tvline.com/gallery/felicity-smoak-best-quotes-arrow-photos/

TVLine posted their collection of favorite Felicity quotes, now including all of S3 [and The Flash], and right after, "Felicity Smoak" spontaneously trended on Twitter. Pretty sure that speaks louder than hateful comments on unreputable sites and the cess pool that are Facebook comments.

Golden rule of life: don't read the comments.

That's a good rule that I endeavor to follow. I just wish tumblr had a better tag system so I don't have to see hate posts when I'm browsing on mobile.

 

Speaking of, I just saw this gem: Felicity argued against making a deal to use the Lazarus Pit to save Thea because she wanted to let her die so she could have Oliver all to herself. I can't even.

[Angel12d]

There was also a no-olicity petition that didn't had that many signatures, and as an answer to that a more olicity petition was made that had more than 2500 signatures in 2 days.

But before all of that, there was a petition to get Marc Guggenheim fired, and then one to get Stephen Amell and Emily Bett Rickards fired.

I'm sure those petitions don't count for anything, besides the fact that it made me realize some people take their frustrations with the show a bit to far. Advocating for people to lose their jobs is childish, to say the least about it.

 

Regarding the hate towards Felicity that i saw in some places, i wish i could say some of it is logical and has reasons to exist, but to be honest i don't .

All i see is hate that, in is core,is based on comic book canon agendas. The fact that Felicity is THE love interest, that Olicity is now together and that she's deeply connected to Oliver's hero journey (all of this made canon by the show) just infuriated some people even more, to the extend of using anything to complain. Basically some people are just nitpicking.

One thing to me that proves there's not that much hate towards her,like some would like others to believe, is that she's winning polls and for every comment hating on her you can find 3 or 4 saying how much she's loved.

 

Wait. Wait. Wait. Someone created a petition to get SA fired?! Um...He's the lead actor and star of the show. He's the Arrow. Without him it wouldn't be Arrow anymore. Bahaha. I can't. I just can't. Lol. This is hilarious.

 

But yes to all of your comment. I do think some criticism is warranted this season (I have plenty of issues with the way Felicity was written this season) and not all of it is wrapped in comic based agendas, but I'd say a large majority of it is. Which is just sad. The fact that people get so focused on comic canon just doesn't make much sense to me. 

[wonderwall]

OH And to tag onto lemotomato's post, people thought Felicity was against the Lazarus Pit because she wanted Thea to die, they also thought that she didn't want Oliver to save Thea when she was against Oliver teaming up with Malcolm :p

[wonderwall]

So I'm going to just jot down the comprehensive list of moments/scenes that didn't happen on screen but people use those moments to hate on Felicity: 

 

• Felicity hit that LoA member with a stick and he went down, people started hating on her for taking out an LoA member except they didn't take into account that Diggle shot said LoA member before Felicity took him out.
• Felicity put Oliver's life above the city in the finale when she didn't. Okay she considered it for about 2 seconds before realizing that, that wasn't going to happen before making up a contingency plan. People who hated on her also conveniently forget everything Felicity did to save Starling.
• Felicity flew the suit perfectly the first time even though 'Ray apparently struggled' when in actuality he didn't.
• Not to mention there were some people who hated on Felicity because they thought she took a member of the LoA out in episode 22 with her tablet when it was Malcolm who did that.
• Her apparent callous and jealous attitude toward a known lesbian being forced to marry Oliver. 
• In 3x21, Felicity was a selfish quitter because was too busy crying over Oliver and left Diggle to fight crime all by himself.
• Felicity was selfish because she let the bad guys get away in episode 10 by shutting the doors on diggle and Roy even though they were already beaten to a pulp and couldn't have gotten the files anyways
• Felicity argued against making a deal to use the Lazarus Pit to save Thea because she wanted to let her die so she could have Oliver all to herself.
• People also thought that she didn't want Oliver to save Thea when she was against Oliver teaming up with Malcolm.
• Apparently she was also mad at Oliver in episode 12 because earlier in that episode she said that she knows Oliver and knows that he wouldn't team up with Malcolm, and when Oliver did Felicity threw a tantrum because he hurt her ego.
• Felicity is the reason why Oliver quit being the Arrow and left town

 

Note: Not saying everyone who dislikes Felicity complained about things that doesn't exist, it's just I've seen a lot of hate regarding the aforementioned points which are simply not true. 

Edited May 27, 2015 by wonderwall

[Balaclava]

Wait. Wait. Wait. Someone created a petition to get SA fired?! Um...He's the lead actor and star of the show. He's the Arrow. Without him it wouldn't be Arrow anymore. Bahaha. I can't. I just can't. Lol. This is hilarious.

 

But yes to all of your comment. I do think some criticism is warranted this season (I have plenty of issues with the way Felicity was written this season) and not all of it is wrapped in comic based agendas, but I'd say a large majority of it is. Which is just sad. The fact that people get so focused on comic canon just doesn't make much sense to me. 

 

Yes a petition to get SA and EBR off the show was made. Makes complete sense to get the lead actor,that plays the main character fired *snorts*

 

Sorry, maybe i wasn't very clear, when i said some of the hate i saw towards Felicity had some type of agenda behind it. In certain places (not referring to this forum) not only facebook, it is a comic book agenda, and i agree the comic canon argument doesn't make much sense to me either, and i have been reading comics for some years now.

Some comics have been running for over 50 years with many reboots and what's canon in one version, it's not in others. Also there's that all "selective canon" syndrome in which some people choose what's canon as long as it fits their agenda,and forget about what doesn't.

 

I understand that people might have some issues with the writing for Felicity in S3, but to me there's a difference between wanting the writers to do better with a character, and discuss what could have been handled and written in another way with valid arguments, and just plain unjustifiable hate. Unfortunately i did saw some of that

 

I'm not sure if i can drop a link here or how to do it,if i wasn't supposed to do so let me know i'll delete it. Just an example of some things you find out there about FS

http://scifanatics.tumblr.com/post/119966716575/felicity-smoak-is-secretly-a-supervillain"sociopath and psychopath" is what made me laugh the most, and i did laugh a lot because of this.

No way i'll take desperate people, grasping at straws seriously

[Delphi]

The petition stuff does not surprise me. Just the other week I kind of got into it with a girl on tumblr who absolutely hates Oliver and Stephen. As well everyone on the show besides Laurel. In fact apparently she fast forwards the episodes to watch only the laurel scenes and can barely stand to watch the parts where Stephen and Katie interact. She got really upset when I questioned if she understood the show at all of she only watched roughly three minutes of Arrow a week.

[jay741982]

So I'm going to just jot down the comprehensive list of moments/scenes that didn't happen on screen but people use those moments to hate on Felicity: 

 

• Felicity hit that LoA member with a stick and he went down, people started hating on her for taking out an LoA member except they didn't take into account that Diggle shot said LoA member before Felicity took him out.
• Felicity put Oliver's life above the city in the finale when she didn't. Okay she considered it for about 2 seconds before realizing that, that wasn't going to happen before making up a contingency plan. People who hated on her also conveniently forget everything Felicity did to save Starling.
• Felicity flew the suit perfectly the first time even though 'Ray apparently struggled' when in actuality he didn't.
• Not to mention there were some people who hated on Felicity because they thought she took a member of the LoA out in episode 22 with her tablet when it was Malcolm who did that.
• Her apparent callous and jealous attitude toward a known lesbian being forced to marry Oliver. 
• In 3x21, Felicity was a selfish quitter because was too busy crying over Oliver and left Diggle to fight crime all by himself.
• Felicity was selfish because she let the bad guys get away in episode 10 by shutting the doors on diggle and Roy even though they were already beaten to a pulp and couldn't have gotten the files anyways
• Felicity argued against making a deal to use the Lazarus Pit to save Thea because she wanted to let her die so she could have Oliver all to herself.
• People also thought that she didn't want Oliver to save Thea when she was against Oliver teaming up with Malcolm.
• Apparently she was also mad at Oliver in episode 12 because earlier in that episode she said that she knows Oliver and knows that he wouldn't team up with Malcolm, and when Oliver did Felicity threw a tantrum because he hurt her ego.
• Felicity is the reason why Oliver quit being the Arrow and left town

 

Note: Not saying everyone who dislikes Felicity complained about things that doesn't exist, it's just I've seen a lot of hate regarding the aforementioned points which are simply not true.

It's distributing what people make up to hate on someone. Do they watch the show? Felicity didn't want Thea to die. And Oliver CHOSE to leave Starling City Felicity didn't force him Some people are unbelievable.

[wingster55]

I don't know...Felicity kinda said that she didn't want Oliver to take Ra's up on his offer even if he was doing it to save Thea. Like that exact line was said.

[olicityfan25]

The petition stuff does not surprise me. Just the other week I kind of got into it with a girl on tumblr who absolutely hates Oliver and Stephen. As well everyone on the show besides Laurel. In fact apparently she fast forwards the episodes to watch only the laurel scenes and can barely stand to watch the parts where Stephen and Katie interact. She got really upset when I questioned if she understood the show at all of she only watched roughly three minutes of Arrow a week.

Omg you're absolutely killing me with the girl only watching 3 minutes of each episode.

[lemotomato]

I don't know...Felicity kinda said that she didn't want Oliver to take Ra's up on his offer even if he was doing it to save Thea. Like that exact line was said.

Let's look at the context of the quote: When Oliver says that's there's a way to save Thea, Felicity gently points out that it's not possible. Then Malcom is the one that describes the Lazarus Pits and its effects, and we know how much she trusts what he says. And her exact quote is "OK, and even if a magic hot tub weren't crazy talk, we're not going to let you go join the League of Psychotic Murderers, even if it is to save Thea." All of which I took to mean that she thinks it is crazy talk, the LPs won't really bring Thea back, and that they should find another way to save Thea that doesn't involve joining the League. It's not a well structured argument, but that's my interpretation. 

 

But if you want to ascribe her motives to being a psycho possessive girlfriend that wants to get rid of his sister like the author of the original post did, that's your prerogative.

[Ceylon5]

But that comment wasn't actually about Thea at all, and only haters would be blind enough to think it was.  It's the classic story-telling question: do you sell your soul to the devil to get what you want (in this case, to maybe save Thea's life)?  The answer is, of course, always supposed to be "HELL NO!", which is what Felicity, because she is smart and knows these things (and has almost certainly read Faust), is saying.  Dude, you never, ever sell your soul to the devil.  Not for any reason.  Fighting for Oliver's soul and "finding another way" is practically Felicity's raison d'etre.  She told him the same thing when her life was the one on the line (with Count Vertigo and with Slade), and she has no reason to change her beliefs on the subject now.  When she could see his mind was made up, though, she was the one who made it all happen.  Judge a person by their actions because actions speak louder than words.

 

On another note, I was thinking about Felicity's PDA when she's in relationships (which the college room-mate commented on with such dismay).  I think that aspect of her bothered some people this season (which is why they call her clingy), and it's an interesting character choice.  We'd never seen her in a romantic relationship before and now we've seen her with Cooper, Ray and Oliver - and she behaved the same way with all of them.  On giving it a little thought, I think it fits well with the Felicity we've come to know.  This character is somehow heartbreakingly lonely and (justifiably) fears abandonment.  Between her strained relationship with her mother, her AWOL father and her "dead" college boyfriend, she just seems very alone.  

 

Since the show started, she's attached herself fiercely to anyone who's taken an interest in her (Walter, Oliver, Diggle, Barry, Sara, Ray).  She risked her life for Walter because he'd taken notice of her.  She visited Barry endlessly while he was in a coma and they'd only known each other a few days (and had agreed not to date).  She treats Oliver and Diggle as if they're her family and hunted Oliver down at the beginning of S2 and brought him home.  She jumped in front of a bullet to save Sara.  She didn't break up with Ray, even when she realised that she wasn't going to be able to fall in love with him.  Felicity attaches herself to people and once attached, is not at all willing to let go again.  This translates into her touching a lot once she's comfortable with someone, and her Freudian slips seem to imply that her desire for greater intimacy with people (not necessarily sex, even if it comes across that way, but just greater closeness) is escaping past her brain filter.  And then, when she finally is in a romantic relationship and can touch that person whenever she wants, she doesn't hold back, but revels in the joy of it.  It's sweet and little sad, but not, I think, out of character.

 

Hopefully Oliver will try his very best to make up for adding to her abandonment issues.  That boy owes her.

Edited May 27, 2015 by Ceylon5

[olicityfan25]

It's only these comic book fanboys who think that makes Felicity weak. Therefore they complain that she shouldn't be on the team because she can't "fight." Except these fanboys are just being dumb. She fights and she fights hard with her brain and her skills.

[Morrigan2575]

Sorry, maybe i wasn't very clear, when i said some of the hate i saw towards Felicity had some type of agenda behind it. In certain places (not referring to this forum) not only facebook, it is a comic book agenda, and i agree the comic canon argument doesn't make much sense to me either, and i have been reading comics for some years now.

Some comics have been running for over 50 years with many reboots and what's canon in one version, it's not in others. Also there's that all "selective canon" syndrome in which some people choose what's canon as long as it fits their agenda,and forget about what doesn't.

I've been trying to avoid posting about Arrow but I continue to call bullshit on the Comics fans hate Felicity and want Lauiver because comics! In my experience "Because Comics" is the cry of Laurel/KC and Lauiver fans (KC herself has even picked up this argument). It is (generally) not the cry of Comic fans. Comic fans seem to obsess over Oliver wearing the stupid goatee, having trick arrows and Green Arrow villains more than whom Oliver is paired with romantically. Quite a few argue Ollie shouldn't be paired with anyone and should be Captain Kirking it all over Starling. I've seen Comics fans bitch more about the continued Batman ripoffs than Olicity or Felicity.

I wanted to comment awhile back but that Ruby poster in the relationships thread who argued that O/L had to be OTP "because comics" but never read comics, had no desire to read comics and only wanted the good parts of O/L from the comics to be in the show...is the exact type of poster making these augments and they're Laurel/KC and Lauiver shippers, not Comics fans. Which BTW is totally fine, I just wish they'd stop using "because comics" as their justifcation.

Are there some comics fans who say O/L has to happen, sure I've met at least 2 online who hate the fact that shippers don't like the main comics pairings on Arrow and Flash but they are few and far between.

The people with the agenda are predominantly KC/Laurel fans and you can tell because they seem to have a Talking Points Memo that they all use to make their arguments.

Please stop blaming us poor comics readers, as you can see many of us actually love Felicity. :-)

ETA: From my experience in my comicbook store, they love Felicity and thought Sara was great as Black Canary. They think KC is hot but Laurel sucks. They also got more excited over Grodd than anything on Arrow, except possibly the Boxing Glove Arrow.

Of comic sites I've gone to, to comment on the title (not the show) many readers don't like Arrow because it's not Green Arrow it's more Batman. There were a few who hated the idea of Felicity (and Diggle) being added to the GA title because they hate the show. However, many were open to it because they loved Felicity on Arrow and argued it made sense since she was the most popular character on Arrow and it worked for Harley Quinn.

Is that to say all Comics fans love. Felicity? Not at all but, in my experience around the internet, the online majority that hate Felicity and have a "because comics" agenda are not actual Green Arrow or even BoP comics fans.

Edited May 27, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[tarotx]

Yeah it's probably just people claiming for comics to a large degree. That"s why the pick up now.

My sister is for "100% canon" and she doesn't read comics. She just hates when things aren't canon in the live action versions of the things she reads.

Edited May 27, 2015 by tarotx

[wingster55]

Please stop blaming us poor comics readers, as you can see many of us actually love Felicity. :-)

 

Agreed. Except I merely like her. 

 

I get Felicity didn't want Oliver to sell his soul...but I felt she could have said it in a more sympathetic way. Like "Oliver I understand you want Thea to live, but would she want you to give up everything for her?" 

[tarotx]

Felicity isn't one to be careful with her words When she's in an emotional moment. It's one of her character quirks and can be a flaw at times.

Edited May 27, 2015 by tarotx

[Menrva]

It is really frustrating for me to hear so much irrational hate for Felicity, who, while I think we can all agree is most certainly not perfect, is a much more positive female character than many currently on our TV screens today.

She's a woman in a field that is seriously deficient of females, though it's getting better. And I realize that she doesn't actually look like most women in STEM or otherwise (this is the CW we're talking about here) but it's important that she exists. It could have been another white guy being the tech genius, or perhaps an asian guy or a latino guy or a black guy. I can't even count how many times I've seen shows or movies where the techie's gender wasn't important to the story and it was nearly always a guy. I've got daughters and at least one of them was inspired to see Felicity and now is interested in coding. That means a lot to me.

Am I computer genius or a blonde with a ponytail? Do I secretly engage in hero-work? No. And yet Felicity is the one I connect with the most on Arrow. On paper, Laurel and I have the most in common, and yet, she is the one I like the least. For me, Felicity says the things I'm thinking and does the things I would do were I in her shoes.

I have more thoughts on this, but I gotta run. I've really enjoyed reading everyone's opinions and thoughts on Felicity.

[wingster55]

That's true...I'd say it's a flaw more often than not though. Meaning not sometimes...most times. 

[Ceylon5]

Felicity agrees with you.  When she heard about the guy with his lips sewn shut, she said, "If only I had known I had that option!"  I think her inability to control her tongue is a source of great frustration to her, but I think most people who know her (including many of us in the audience) actually find this one of her most endearing qualities.  When she asked Ray if he thought there'd ever come a time when everything she says isn't some weird double entendre, he said, "I hope not.  It's one of your more charming traits."  I'm pretty sure that's something Oliver agrees with Ray on, too.  He knows Felicity just blurts things out without finding the best way to say them first, and he knows her heart.  I don't believe for a second that he didn't know what she meant.

[Menrva]

Okay, just a few more thoughts I wanted to get out here.

So, for me, one of season 3's few highlights was the introduction of the vaguely alluded-to but never before seen, Donna Smoak. She's loud, she's inappropriate, she can seem ditzy, but never doubt that she fiercely loves her brilliant daughter. Donna is a single mom who raised her kid in Las Vegas, a place not known for subtlety, working full time as a cocktail waitress in the casinos. I have no idea how much a cocktail waitress makes in Las Vegas, but it could not have been easy doing that and caring for a child on her own. And that child is a lot like her genius dad, who is out of the picture for unknown and possibly criminal reasons. There doesn't seem to be any extended family either. No mention of grandparents or cousins or aunts and uncles. Is Donna the black sheep for running off to Vegas? It appears to me that it was just Donna and Felicity, fending for themselves.

Donna's flashiness and flirtation is a survival technique. The more attention she garners, the better the tips; more money mean a better life for her kid. And she's good at it. Donna will do whatever she has to do for Felicity. So that is the role model Felicity grew up with. It doesn't surprise me one bit the Felicity was clingy and flirty with her love interests/boyfriends. Who did she learn behavioral patterns from? Felicity doesn't have the physical confidence that Donna projects, so of course she's going to come off as awkward and inappropriate at times. She hasn't had a lifetime of practice like her mom has and her livelihood probably was never so inextricably linked to her physical appeal the way Donna's was. As a kid, Felicity probably read a lot, and never had a lot of friends. But the ones she did have, she treasured. Plus, there may have not been a lot of jewish kids in her school; yet another way she is different from everyone else.

There was likely a point when Felicity was mortified by her mom's behavior, not understanding why Donna did it, and she retreated into her computers and hacking and created a physical persona that was as far opposite her mom's as she could (Goth Felicity). Felicity largely lived in her head and online and had little use for real world interaction. This was where she gained confidence in herself and her abilities. Her acceptance to MIT was proof of her talents. With Cooper, she found a kindred spirit not only as a hacker, but a romantic partner as well. Felicity was shaken when she realized that people were not all they seemed on the surface, with Cooper's dangerous hacking. She had to grow up some more and regard the world, both virtual and actual, with more suspicion. I believe that Oliver and his mission renewed her faith that there were people really trying to make a difference. It revived that desire to change the world that she'd buried after Cooper's "death".

Anyway, this ended up way more long winded than I'd intended. So thanks for letting me ramble.

Edited May 27, 2015 by Menrva

[wonderwall]

Also for those who don't believe that argument that Felicity was against it because she felt that there could've been another way or maybe even impossible, would Oliver really be with someone who wasn't interested in saving his sister from death? Would he be interested in a woman who doesn't care about his sister? I don't think so. IF Oliver felt as though Felicity didn't care, I think that would've made him question his feelings for her and reevaluate what he wants.

[wonderwall]

Agreed. Except I merely like her.

I get Felicity didn't want Oliver to sell his soul...but I felt she could have said it in a more sympathetic way. Like "Oliver I understand you want Thea to live, but would she want you to give up everything for her?"

This is probably Oliver's 10th time giving up/going on a suicide mission? I think at this point she was just frustrated. The first time he went against Ra's she let him go without much of a fight, the second time she let him go to NP, she didn't put up much of a fight either. Now this time Oliver wanted to sell his soul and I think this is why felicity put up a fight and I think there's a key difference between this moment and the others. She knew the outcome already. At least that's what I figured whilst watching.

I think she was merely frustrated seeing Oliver give up. Like someone else said, Felicity is usually the kind of person who feels like there's always another way. So to see Oliver give up for the umpteenth time in the last 3 years it must've been frustrating.

[Balaclava]

I've been trying to avoid posting about Arrow but I continue to call bullshit on the Comics fans hate Felicity and want Lauiver because comics! In my experience "Because Comics" is the cry of Laurel/KC and Lauiver fans (KC herself has even picked up this argument). It is (generally) not the cry of Comic fans. Comic fans seem to obsess over Oliver wearing the stupid goatee, having trick arrows and Green Arrow villains more than whom Oliver is paired with romantically. Quite a few argue Ollie shouldn't be paired with anyone and should be Captain Kirking it all over Starling. I've seen Comics fans bitch more about the continued Batman ripoffs than Olicity or Felicity.

I wanted to comment awhile back but that Ruby poster in the relationships thread who argued that O/L had to be OTP "because comics" but never read comics, had no desire to read comics and only wanted the good parts of O/L from the comics to be in the show...is the exact type of poster making these augments and they're Laurel/KC and Lauiver shippers, not Comics fans. Which BTW is totally fine, I just wish they'd stop using "because comics" as their justifcation.

Are there some comics fans who say O/L has to happen, sure I've met at least 2 online who hate the fact that shippers don't like the main comics pairings on Arrow and Flash but they are few and far between.

The people with the agenda are predominantly KC/Laurel fans and you can tell because they seem to have a Talking Points Memo that they all use to make their arguments.

Please stop blaming us poor comics readers, as you can see many of us actually love Felicity. :-)

ETA: From my experience in my comicbook store, they love Felicity and thought Sara was great as Black Canary. They think KC is hot but Laurel sucks. They also got more excited over Grodd than anything on Arrow, except possibly the Boxing Glove Arrow.

Of comic sites I've gone to, to comment on the title (not the show) many readers don't like Arrow because it's not Green Arrow it's more Batman. There were a few who hated the idea of Felicity (and Diggle) being added to the GA title because they hate the show. However, many were open to it because they loved Felicity on Arrow and argued it made sense since she was the most popular character on Arrow and it worked for Harley Quinn.

Is that to say all Comics fans love. Felicity? Not at all but, in my experience around the internet, the online majority that hate Felicity and have a "because comics" agenda are not actual Green Arrow or even BoP comics fans.

 

ITA, although to be honest i don't take Lauriver shippers seriously when they use the "because comics" argument, every time i asked one of them which comic canons do they want on the show, i get nothing. Honestly i think all they know about GA/BC is that one picture they got on google images.

 

Maybe what i wrote came out wrong, i do that a lot without even trying, but i wasn't blaming all comic book readers on the Felicity hate or else i would be blaming myself too, and i love Felicity, she's one of my fav characters.

 

I think you're totally right about fanboys, the truth is,that in the end you can't say all comic book fans are haters of the show and Felicity, the same way you can't say all that shippers/fangirls want is Olicity.

Also labeling and categorizing fans it's the worst, i have no idea where that puts me. 

 

I spend sometime on twitter,at times i try to deconstruct the idea that all fanboys are haters,in the same way i do in other places about fangirls and shippers and the generalizations that are made about them.

I guess the perception about fans and types of fans and what they want or like, depends a lot on the places you visit on the internet.

 

I have engaged in some of the best discussions i had about Arrow with comic fanboys but also fangirls. It's different perspectives on the show in some ways, but the common thread is that both want the best for Arrow and their fav characters.

 

It's impossible for everyone to like the same things about the show, or even for everyone to like the same characters in the same exact way, because in the end people like what they like and nothing will ever change that, what in all honestly confuses me is hate for the sake of hating, and that is what i've been seeing regarding Felicity. 

 

I did come across some hate for Felicity from GA fans,but they're not the majority, just the same way i've come across a lot of love for her from GA fans too. Considering everything Felicity is a loved character, if not the most loved one for a vast part of Arrow's viewers, including the ones that are not on social media.

She trended spontaneously on twitter yesterday and that, no matter how many will try to undermine , does mean she's loved.

 

I hope i made myself clearer, i tried my best, someway along writing this it's possible i strayed a bit :p

[rainydawn]

I think there's valid criticisms out there about Felicity's character, she's not perfect, she has flaws, just like everyone else, and it's not fair to put all of those people/comments in the same group like "fanboys" or to brush them inside by saying they're coming from "haters". She definitely took a hit this season and I blame the writers. Instead of writing for the characters, they wrote the characters around the story. I love Felicity and I want them to do it right next for her and her fans like myself. 

Edited May 27, 2015 by rainydawn

[doesntworkonwood]

This is a bit difficult to word, but I'm going to give it a go anyway.

 

I don't think people need a fully thought out, completely rational, reason for disliking (or even hating) a character. People are allowed to find a character annoying, people are allowed to find their storyline boring, people are allowed to be annoyed that a character exists. They're fictional characters, they have no feelings, we can insult them however we want and it wont affect those characters whatsoever, because they're not real. (Of course, lines blur when people transfer that hate onto actors/actresses but that's a whole other conversation).

 

So because these characters aren't real, people are allowed to be a bit irrational about their feelings towards them. Unlike actual human beings, these characters are literally there to entertain us. And if they don't, people have the right to feel annoyed. Talking to friend isn't the same as consuming media (especially not media that you have payed for). 

 

So basically, people are allowed to hate characters to their hearts content without reason whatsoever. But when is criticism of this hate warranted. IMO, I think that this is when people attempt to mask their irrational hate as legitimate criticism. (Which is not to say people who dislike a character cannot objectively criticise said character).

 

For example, people saying that they find Felicity annoying is a fine opinion to have. People saying that they hate having Felicity on their screen is a fine opinion to have. But when people criticise Felicity for the same things that they praise Diggle for (i.e. standing up to Oliver), there is obviously an agenda there. 

 

But there are some things to note:

 

1. This is the internet. The way the internet works is for every opinion you generally need a reason for your opinion. If you've put it on a public forum, you're irrational dislike of a character will be called out (if someone likes the character you hate). This is a practice I disagree with, if someone hates a character you like, ignore and move on. They're allowed to have an opinion. (Of course, if said opinion is hypocritical, or obviously has an agenda, feel free to call it out). But, because this is the internet, everyone is hypercritical of everyone else who doesn't agree with them, which don't get me wrong can often be a good thing, but also can often lead people to feel like their opinions aren't valid (when they're not harmful opinions, and they should be valid).

 

2. 'Criticism' can often fall into sexist, racist, homophobic etc tropes. Following on from the last point, this is the internet. A lot of the users (not here but on the internet as whole) are kind of awful people. Stuff like calling female characters whiny, having double standards when it comes to female characters and male characters, criticising female characters for being traditionally feminine, whilst celebrating female character who exhibit traditionally masculine characteristics, being hypercritical of characters of colour, whilst letting white characters get away with a lot more, being annoyed when these characters get bigger roles and bigger storylines, trying to force these characters into racist stereotypes, treating lesbian characters as straight characters (i.e. why aren't they falling at the heroes feet). These are all common criticisms across all forms of media, not just Arrow. If someone analysed it, I'm sure that they would find that these criticisms are applied repeatedly to similar characters, without (in the majority of the time) actual basis within the forms of media. Therefore, I consider this criticism with an agenda, and therefore not real criticsm. 

 

I'm not entirely sure what my whole point was but I'll try to summarise it. 

 

TLDR; People are allowed to hate characters. When people try to masquerade this hate as legitimate criticism, they should be called out on it, especially if the criticism is sexist, racist, homophobic etc. 

[AyChihuahua]

Oliver shouldn't have agreed to become the head of the LOA to save Thea's life.  People die, it sucks, but you don't agree to become a murdering head of a group of murderers (currently run by the guy who actually murdered your sister) to avoid it.  I didn't like it when Dean sold his soul to save Sam, either.  Also, at that point Oliver knew RAG was targeting his friends/family and had plenty of time to come up with a plan, a GOOD plan, so he should have had it a lot more together.  Just another indicator of how terribly stupid Oliver was this season.

[kismet]

The dialogue and scripts were not the best this season for all the characters. So I try not to hold the specific lines against any of the characters this season. Plus I also think actions speak louder than words. And at the end of the day, Felicity's actions saved SC & OQ multiple times all season.

 

What my point was going to be, is that the lines in question regarding FS's intentions were all part of a larger conversation of what to do. Its not fair to just lift one line and lose the context. FS is smart & logical, so she is going to ask questions or bring up points that others may not think of or say. But its important to look at all sides/points when making some pretty big life or death decisions. Even Malcolm questioned the use of LP on his daughter. So it warranted a discussion. In the end, FS demanded that she go on the plane to help save Thea. And she even tried to save OQ with that poorly planned drug plan. Her dialogue was not indicative of what she wanted to do, but rather is this the best plan/way to accomplish it??? She wanted to save Thea, the whole season was about saving her and FS participated in 99% of missions to save her. The only time she disagreed and then changed her actions accordingly was when OQ worked with MM. And that I blame on OQ for not fully explaining his rationale to FS & TA about why he had to work with MM.

 

As for her clingy behavior around RP, well that bothered me, but I can get over it. Personally, I'm not one that likes clingy overtly visual PDA, so I might have had an issue if it was with OQ as well. I'm more of a subtle PDA person. Random touches here & there, subtle touching - no need to hang onto someone its not a club there's no need to claim your property. Appreciated the other posters analyses of why she might be physically clingy. Honestly, I'm not sure who's decision it was to make the character like that whether it was EBR or the directors. It's not the way I would have taken the character, but it is what it is.

 

I think the biggest reason the clingy behavior was problematic or received such hate was that it came in episodes where very bad things were happening to TA, so to switch back to that was very jarring. But again that falls on the writers for proceeding to writer Palmer Island parallel/ignorant of the shit going down on Arrow. Or in the Flash episode it was aired out of order, so it felt out of place. Despite getting her own villain, which was cool the way the writers wrote her in that episode of the Flash was very juvenile & not consistent with the character growth of FS, which made me dislike almost everything about how they wrote her. Her scenes were cringeworthy for a lot of that episode, but again that is on the writers.

[Menrva]

IMO, Felicity was the least whiny this season. 

 

Oliver: I can't be the Arrow and be with the woman I love, it's too haaarrd…I have to make deals with the devil to save my loved ones because it's too hard to tell the truth and ask for help and make rational decisions…

 

Ra's Al Ghul: Why don't you want to take my place, Oliver? Why don't you want to be meeeee???? Nyssa, my daughter who I have cast aside for an outsider because I'm a homophobic pig, why don't you want to marry and have babies with your dead lover's ex???

 

Malcolm: Ra's is trying to kill meeee…don't you feel sorry for meeee??? Thea, everything I did, including training you to be a ninja and assassin, drugging you and brainwashing you to kill Sara for no apparent good reason, was because I loooove you, why are you so ungrateful????

 

Laurel: My sister was murdered, so now I can't tell my dad because it'll kill him to know the truth even though he has been doing this tough job for years now without dropping dead…I'm forced to pretend to be Sara and recruit Felicity to help me keep the lie going and it's soooo haard…I've had two months of boxing lessons, why won't anyone take me seriously??? I have all these buckles, I'm totally ready to assume Sara's identity - I mean, avenge her death…doesn't anyone care how much I've suffered…I have a Canary cry toooooooo!!!!!!

 

Captain Lance: Oliver Queen corrupted my daughters with his vigilante penis and now one's dead because of him and the other's running around in a mask like all the other costumed freaks, which is all Oliver Queen's fault, he's really the Arrow, I knew it all along, he made me forget what I really believe in by agreeing to help him, now I need to drown my sorrows in booze, oh and now Laurel's nagging me about the drinking, everyone lies to meeeee…

 

So. Much. Whining.

[AustenChick]

I'd like to state that I'm a comic book fan. I've read and love GA comics and I thoroughly love Felicity. I see the comics and TV show as two different entities and Felicity is a creation that is from the TV show. She's a character that works in this interpretation of the Green Arrow and she has great chemistry with the cast. I think that in the TV show, she's the love interest that has always made the most sense to me for Oliver -- comic canon or not. 

Edited May 27, 2015 by AustenChick

[catrox14]

I've been thinking about Felicity's behavior with Ray and kind of hanging on him. I'm convinced she was wildly overcompensating because she was not really in love with Ray and she was trying to forget about Oliver.

[olicityfan25]

Lets not forget how it was Felicity who told him "Go get Thea." Plus it was her who looked at all the photos to find Thea and get her away from Slade.

[Morrigan2575]

Maybe what i wrote came out wrong, i do that a lot without even trying, but i wasn't blaming all comic book readers on the Felicity hate or else i would be blaming myself too, and i love Felicity, she's one of my fav characters.

I think you're totally right about fanboys, the truth is,that in the end you can't say all comic book fans are haters of the show and Felicity, the same way you can't say all that shippers/fangirls want is Olicity.

Also labeling and categorizing fans it's the worst, i have no idea where that puts me.

 

Oh, I don't think you were blaming us, it's more of a joke.  We've had this discussion before in the relationships thread and many of the comic readers on this forum, Danny Franks, Mars, Dancingnancy, me, Calliope, (a few more) have all been like "not us!".  

 

I don't think you can say any group as a whole is for or against.

[AyChihuahua]

As for her clingy behavior around RP, well that bothered me, but I can get over it. Personally, I'm not one that likes clingy overtly visual PDA, so I might have had an issue if it was with OQ as well. I'm more of a subtle PDA person. Random touches here & there, subtle touching - no need to hang onto someone its not a club there's no need to claim your property. Appreciated the other posters analyses of why she might be physically clingy. Honestly, I'm not sure who's decision it was to make the character like that whether it was EBR or the directors. It's not the way I would have taken the character, but it is what it is.

I HATED the physical clinginess.  Not because it was with Ray, just because I hate it.  I dearly hope they don't do it with Oliver next season, because I find it gross and desperate.  I didn't mind it in the Cooper flashbacks, because she graduated college very young, meaning she was very young (late teens?) at that time, and teenagers have a pass to be silly and obvious and clingy, but by the time she was with Ray she was like 25/26.  I HATED it, and I really hated when she did it in front of Oliver.  I will also really hate it if she does it in front of Ray with Oliver next season.  Keep that crap in private, people.

[Starfish35]

I have to admit, I'm with AyChihuahua. I'm not down with all the physical clinginess and handsiness. It's just not something I like in real life. Felicity has always had a tendency to be handsy, and I remember it annoying me back in Three Ghosts how she had her hands all over Oliver. It irritated me in The Offer too, especially since her boyfriend was just in the next room. And I really hated her hanging off Roy's arm and I hope we don't get a lot of that with Oliver next season.

I don't hate Felicity because of it - it's just a character quirk that rubs me wrong because of my own personality. Most of the time I can overlook it, but I do hope we don't get a steady diet of smoopy cutesy PDA next season.

ETA: I also agree that it makes her seem really young. Maybe it's my own associations from college days (some ~20 years ago *cough*) but that really is something I associate with college-age kids (yes, even myself, something I cringe in horror about looking back).

Edited May 27, 2015 by Starfish35

[statsgirl]

I was thinking about the accusation that Felicity was selfish in the finale because she left Ray to save Oliver.  Even if you accept that she actually could have done something by staying with Ray, which I don't since at that point it was all up to him, it was a no-win situation in terms of the audience.  If she goes to save Oliver, she's letting down the city; if she lets Oliver get killed, she doesn't love him enough.  Either choice would have brought on the hate.

 

I get Felicity didn't want Oliver to sell his soul...but I felt she could have said it in a more sympathetic way. Like "Oliver I understand you want Thea to live, but would she want you to give up everything for her?" 

She might have, if she were a trained therapist or a Mary Sue.  Another no-win situation.

 

Also, this was near the end of a season of Oliver making stupid decisions because MG and the writers get "a lot of mileage from Oliver having his head stuck up his ass", decisions that only created more problems in the end. Even a saint would have been frustrated with him by then.  So much of Felicity's frustration, not to mention her affair with Ray, could have been avoided if Oliver had just explained his reasoning to her when he returned in 3x12.

 

http://scifanatics.tumblr.com/post/119966716575/felicity-smoak-is-secretly-a-supervillain"sociopath and psychopath" is what made me laugh the most, and i did laugh a lot because of this.

No way i'll take desperate people, grasping at straws seriously

That's the funniest thing I've read in a long time.  It's got to be a parody, right?

[Ceylon5]

I think there's a big difference between making out in public (like she did in college) and simply touching people in a non-sexual way.  Both are PDA, but very different types.  A tendency to general (i.e. non-sexual) PDA isn't reflective of age - I know lots of people of all ages who love to always hug and/or kiss everyone hello and will hold onto your arm when they're talking to you or whatever.  There's also a cultural element to it - I think WASPs, for example, are a lot less comfortable with people touching them than a lot of other cultures.  So I don't mind Felicity's tendency to touch people, since it's just this instinctive, often unconscious, thing she does as part of her personality (and I've always had a bit of a soft spot for the touchy-feely people I know IRL).  It's generally a very disarming quality (was that a pun or more pun-adjacent?).

[wonderwall]

I'm cool with people holding hands, hugs, anything that isn't intimate/romantic like kissing. What Felicity did with Ray in The Flash I wasn't cool with. Felicity putting her chin on Oliver's shoulder was okay, but not okay considering their audience. It wasn't appropriate at all. I was also okay with her smelling Oliver's shoulder. I really hope that EBR doesn't make Felicity look ridiculously clingy when she's with Oliver. I never found her to be clingy to begin with so it was weird seeing her be clingy with Ray. Although I suppose I could fanwank that she was overcompensating for her lack of feelings for him...

[AyChihuahua]

I can honestly say that if any guy I was dating draped himself over me like Felicity draped herself over Ray, I would dump him so fast he'd think he was at NASCAR.  I am not a WASP, either.  I absolutely hated that about her character in S3.  Hand-holding is fine, a hug is fine, pecks on the lips in public (preferably not in front of the other guy you know is in love with you) is fine, but she spent minutes literally draped over him. 

[wonderwall]

I can honestly say that if any guy I was dating draped himself over me like Felicity draped herself over Ray, I would dump him so fast he'd think he was at NASCAR.  I am not a WASP, either.  I absolutely hated that about her character in S3.  Hand-holding is fine, a hug is fine, pecks on the lips in public (preferably not in front of the other guy you know is in love with you) is fine, but she spent minutes literally draped over him. 

 

Worse yet, Ray didn't even really seem into it. It was sort of embarrassing for me :p I really really really hope that EBR doesn't do that with SA next season. I was sort of disappointed that EBR even chose to act like Felicity would do that. But yeah, no, my headcanon is she was definitely overcompensating. Yep. 

[Starfish35]

It is going to be a personal thing, definitely.

I think, as long as they don't have Felicity constantly hanging off Oliver's arm or draped over him at work, I'll be fine with it. I'm even fine with kisses as long as, you know, they're not making out in front of their friends (which I don't expect).

The handsiness I mentioned before I had a problem with because I didn't feel like it was appropriate for where they were at that point. In Three Ghosts, it just felt like way too much for where they were at that point, and in The Offer, I just wasn't comfortable with it because she was with Ray. So. MMV.

[AyChihuahua]

Yeah, I'm giving her a pass on being a little overly touchy with Oliver in the post-denouement scene, because major emotions, and she finally got the guy.  Not all that appropriate in front of Ray and Laurel, but for me she gets a pass on that one.  I just really need it not to continue next season.  It screams desperation.

 

I almost wonder if it's EBR's thing because she's quite young, younger than her character?  Even if it is, though, I'd think a director would tell her to dial it back a bit.

[kismet]

I think there is a difference between touchy & clingy. Can't really describe the difference, but perhaps its the sustained hanging or length of touching. Like the clingy scenes we saw with ray. And to he honest ray didnt seem that interested in it. The only time he paid attention was at the hanger when he witnessed it between fs & oq.

Felicity season 1&2 and parts of 3 was touchy. Oliver has always been a lil touchy with felicity. Touchy doesn't bother me, so long as its not at inappropriate times, which I don't feel it has been with felicity or Oliver. Touching implies closeness, caring & intimacy. Clinging somehow feels like desperation.

I hope they fine tune the pda in s4 to be just the right amount of pda. I just don't want to see clingy or hanging off each other. Keep the touches but avoid the cling. I feel like she won't have to overcompensate as much with Oliver.

[statsgirl]

I think of clingy as when it's one person clinging and the other wanting to do something else, like her scenes with Ray.

 

I tend to be anti-PDAs but I liked Felicity kind of rubbing her face against Oliver's arm after he told her he wanted to go on a trip of exploring with her.  It was an emotional time.

[dtissagirl]

This discussion is surreal to me. I didn't even notice Felicity being all touchy-feely until I read people complaining about it here. But then, I live in the most touchy-feely place on the entire planet, so that might color my impressions. Cultural differences, YAY!