Law & Order Discussion Topic (2019 - 2021)

[shapeshifter]

16.7 "House of Cards" aired on ION today, in which:

Quote

The investigating police detectives are on the trail of a depressed wife who is suspected of killing a pregnant woman and stealing her baby, but new evidence reveals that someone else may have also been involved in the crime

A lot of the writing made the regular characters (McCoy, Branch, etc.) seem incompetently out of character.

They tried to get the baby’s bio-dad on murder by having the lady who conspired with him testify against him, when it was obvious to everyone that she killed the mother. Shouldn’t they have just convicted him of a felony (child selling?) and then he would have been guilty of murder because the mother died during the commission of the act? Or something like that?

And then Branch’s closing line about telling the cops to take the weekend off and get a fresh start Monday looking for the dad who loved the baby as his own even after he learned it wasn’t? Maybe emotionally heartwarming, but how does that work in the long run for a guy on the run with a newborn that’s not legally his and no economic resources?

[MadyGirl1987]

I’ve been watching a lot of the early season reruns, and there was a moment watching today that reminded me of why I loved the original series...

It was a forth season episode, Apocrypha. In it they go after this cult leader. After the case the  DA team are in their offices when they get a call. Somethings happened. Flash forward to Briscoe and Logan at the scene of the group suicide of multiple followers of the cult. I actually gasped.  I can’t remember the last time a show made with gasp like that. It just showed how good L&O was with surprising you and doing things you would never have expected.

[Xeliou66]

14 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

16.7 "House of Cards" aired on ION today, in which:

A lot of the writing made the regular characters (McCoy, Branch, etc.) seem incompetently out of character.

They tried to get the baby’s bio-dad on murder by having the lady who conspired with him testify against him, when it was obvious to everyone that she killed the mother. Shouldn’t they have just convicted him of a felony (child selling?) and then he would have been guilty of murder because the mother died during the commission of the act? Or something like that?

And then Branch’s closing line about telling the cops to take the weekend off and get a fresh start Monday looking for the dad who loved the baby as his own even after he learned it wasn’t? Maybe emotionally heartwarming, but how does that work in the long run for a guy on the run with a newborn that’s not legally his and no economic resources?

Yeah I’m not a fan of that episode for those reasons. It seemed like they prosecuted the bio dad because they disliked him, not because of any evidence against him. And yeah Branch’s ending line about telling the police to take the weekend off was cheesy and not realistic, the police can’t just quit looking for someone because they sympathize with him. I found that episode frustrating and it’s one of my least favorites actually because of how the case was handled. 

13 hours ago, MadyGirl1987 said:

I’ve been watching a lot of the early season reruns, and there was a moment watching today that reminded me of why I loved the original series...

It was a forth season episode, Apocrypha. In it they go after this cult leader. After the case the  DA team are in their offices when they get a call. Somethings happened. Flash forward to Briscoe and Logan at the scene of the group suicide of multiple followers of the cult. I actually gasped.  I can’t remember the last time a show made with gasp like that. It just showed how good L&O was with surprising you and doing things you would never have expected.

Apocrypha was on the other day, really good episode, and yeah that was a chilling ending. L&O did have some memorable endings and it could surprise you, most chilling ending IMO is Prince of Darkness with “she doesn’t have an uncle” and the horrified look on Schiff’s face after Stone says it. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

"Helpless" was on today, and so was "Self-Defense".

My longstanding LOATHING and HATE for Melnick originated here. Especially her disrespect and calling Liz a "hysterical female" and not addressing her as "Dr." even if Liz is a psychologist and not psychiatrist.

I'll be watching the latter when I get off work.

I'll always love the end of "Helpless" when Paul slams the "54 women you either raped, molested, or abused."

Or Ben telling that twat Melnick, there was nothing she could come up with that would make him agreeable to give Merritt a deal.

But I've noticed that Bounce channel blurs out a lot of semi-naked pictures of victims.

Edited July 9, 2020 by GHScorpiosRule

[wknt3]

8 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yeah I’m not a fan of that episode for those reasons. It seemed like they prosecuted the bio dad because they disliked him, not because of any evidence against him. And yeah Branch’s ending line about telling the police to take the weekend off was cheesy and not realistic, the police can’t just quit looking for someone because they sympathize with him.

Sure they can. Time, money, etc. are all limited. And while they can't necessarily officially abandon the search if there is no appetite to prosecute the case it's pretty easy to file the appropriate forms saying all leads have been exhausted and move on to new cases. They can't officially drop the case and if he gets caught running a red light and the computer shows he's a fugitive they have to arrest him, but they can certainly decide to wait until that happens and be more proactive in going after less sympathetic perps whom there is more appetite to prosecute.

[blondiec0332]

18 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

L&O did have some memorable endings and it could surprise you, most chilling ending IMO is Prince of Darkness with “she doesn’t have an uncle” and the horrified look on Schiff’s face after Stone says it. 

One of my favorite episodes is Hubris. It's the one with the "charming" guy who seduces the jury foreman and she hangs the jury. Afterwards she comes to see Jack and Abby and confesses she got involved with him and after the trial he dumped her.  At some point later Jack and Abby are talking about him and how they probably won't ever get him the phone rings. Next scene is the juror's apartment.  She had just killed him him in self defense. For me it was a shocking but very satisfying ending.

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 hour ago, blondiec0332 said:

One of my favorite episodes is Hubris. It's the one with the "charming" guy who seduces the jury foreman and she hangs the jury. Afterwards she comes to see Jack and Abby and confesses she got involved with him and after the trial he dumped her.  At some point later Jack and Abby are talking about him and how they probably won't ever get him the phone rings. Next scene is the juror's apartment.  She had just killed him him in self defense. For me it was a shocking but very satisfying ending.

I saw it coming. Because Abby picked up on the flirting that was going on during the trial. She even brought it to Jack's attention. I can't remember if they discussed it with the judge or not.

So, not shocking for me.

I love "Self-Defense" so much. But I've always been confuzzled as to why Phil insisted that Costas was just defending himself, when they could see him reloading and going after the brothers. It's like he had a personal stake in the case or something.

And I loved Adam's line to both Paul and Stone that Self-Defense was intended to make sure you didn't get killed--not for the person to kill someone else. Or something like that. It just made sense the way Adam said it. Not that I'm saying this can't be used when someone does end up killing another who is trying to kill them. Damn. I wish I hadn't deleted it from my dvr.

And look! Dude that played Costas' brother-in-law, would show up again years later to play a mob don, faking being cray-cray, until the near end when he spouts "can you make it 2 years?" or something like that.

I've always liked Ron Rifkin--but his appearances on this show as asshole lawyers (two different ones), just makes me wonder why he stopped playing good guys! Of course, I first saw him on the original One Day At a Time, before they killed him off screen.

[blondiec0332]

3 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I saw it coming. Because Abby picked up on the flirting that was going on during the trial. She even brought it to Jack's attention. I can't remember if they discussed it with the judge or not.

So, not shocking for me.

Not their having affair as shocking. The ending when she killed him.  Yes Abby noticed it, they told the judge and the defendant and juror denied it. He had originally had police watching him during the trial because of his flirting with the juror but then the judge told them to stop and that is when him and the juror hooked up.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Just now, blondiec0332 said:

Not their having affair as shocking. The ending when she killed him.  Yes Abby noticed it, they told the judge and the defendant and juror denied it. He had originally had police watching him during the trial because of his flirting with the juror but then the judge told them to stop and that is when him and the juror hooked up.

Sorry, I meant I didn't find that twit of a jury foreperson killing him shocking. I just don't know that I believed her that he came back to kill her.

[blondiec0332]

4 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I just don't know that I believed her that he came back to kill her.

I always wondered why  he came to her apartment after  he allegedly broke up with her. I understand she was a loose end to tie up but what could he have been charged with? Jury tampering? But I was willing to wave it away because he was truly a repulsive character.

Edited July 10, 2020 by blondiec0332

[balmz]

interesting thing i read on tv tropes about the hubris episode

 

"Hubris": a warrant is issued to search the suspect's apartment but the courier hasn't brought it yet. Knowing the suspect will get there before the warrant, Det. Green sticks a toothpick in his lock to keep him from entering. The courier arrives a few seconds later and the police bust in and seize a videotape of the murders. The judge tosses the tape since the police secured the area before they had the warrant (even though they had reason to believe he'd destroy the evidence and were well aware the warrant had been issued). Then the judge allows the defendant to do two things he shouldn't have: call an alibi witness to perjure herself and take the stand to testify on his own behalf. Not only were the tapes admissible to cross-examine both of them but the defendant was clearly guilty of perjury considering he was representing himself and had personal knowledge he was suborning perjury. It is also totally legal to secure a scene if there's a concrete possibility that the evidence will be removed, destroyed, or otherwise endangered before the search warrant arrives. What the police can't do is start poking around, looking in drawers and such, before the warrant arrives. note As an example, if the police had strong reason to suspect that a criminal had evidence on his computer, they could secure the location and prevent the criminals from touching it. They couldn't actually fire it up and look at the contents until the warrant arrived, though.

[GHScorpiosRule]

“Point of View” today and...

”Put it BAAACK. Exactly where you found it.”

”Your beeper not working?”

”What I was doin’ I don’t wear a beeper. Usual treatment of a crime scene, Carrillo? You Stirring it with a stick? Hey. Hey! Before you stomp all the evidence into the pavement, can I see a diagram?”

HELLOOOO LENNIE BRISCOE!!!!!🥰🥰🥰

[andromeda331]

21 minutes ago, balmz said:

interesting thing i read on tv tropes about the hubris episode

 

"Hubris": a warrant is issued to search the suspect's apartment but the courier hasn't brought it yet. Knowing the suspect will get there before the warrant, Det. Green sticks a toothpick in his lock to keep him from entering. The courier arrives a few seconds later and the police bust in and seize a videotape of the murders. The judge tosses the tape since the police secured the area before they had the warrant (even though they had reason to believe he'd destroy the evidence and were well aware the warrant had been issued). Then the judge allows the defendant to do two things he shouldn't have: call an alibi witness to perjure herself and take the stand to testify on his own behalf. Not only were the tapes admissible to cross-examine both of them but the defendant was clearly guilty of perjury considering he was representing himself and had personal knowledge he was suborning perjury. It is also totally legal to secure a scene if there's a concrete possibility that the evidence will be removed, destroyed, or otherwise endangered before the search warrant arrives. What the police can't do is start poking around, looking in drawers and such, before the warrant arrives. note As an example, if the police had strong reason to suspect that a criminal had evidence on his computer, they could secure the location and prevent the criminals from touching it. They couldn't actually fire it up and look at the contents until the warrant arrived, though.

Yeah, IRL Green didn't need a toothpick they could just stop him from entering. The Judge was crazy to toss the tapes but those two things that he allows the defendant to do? The alibi and taking the stand would be reversed so fast on appeal. The Judge was basically helping the defendant suborn perjury. 

[Xeliou66]

2 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Yeah, IRL Green didn't need a toothpick they could just stop him from entering. The Judge was crazy to toss the tapes but those two things that he allows the defendant to do? The alibi and taking the stand would be reversed so fast on appeal. The Judge was basically helping the defendant suborn perjury. 

 Yeah I wondered why Judge Bradley allowed the defendant to call an alibi witness when it was blatant perjury. I get why he excluded the tape, but I thought it was stupid of Green to use a toothpick like that, it did seem like they could just stop him from entering if they thought evidence was going to be destroyed. 

I’m not sure what you mean about it getting reversed on appeal, the prosecution can’t appeal, only the defense can and they had no reason to here since the defendant wasn’t convicted. 

I liked the episode, any episode that dealt with jury tampering and stuff like that I found interesting, but I didn’t find it surprising that the woman killed the perp at the end, and I did question the logic of a couple of the characters actions. 

2 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

“Point of View” today and...

”Put it BAAACK. Exactly where you found it.”

”Your beeper not working?”

”What I was doin’ I don’t wear a beeper. Usual treatment of a crime scene, Carrillo? You Stirring it with a stick? Hey. Hey! Before you stomp all the evidence into the pavement, can I see a diagram?”

HELLOOOO LENNIE BRISCOE!!!!!🥰🥰🥰

Briscoe seemed a bit different in Point of View than he did in all other episodes, I’m not sure if they just didn’t have a good grasp on the character yet or if they wanted some tension between him and Logan given that Logan thought Cerreta was coming back and Briscoe was just temporary. Either way I’m glad they quickly changed Lennie to make him more laid back and less abrasive. 

[catlover79]

On 7/9/2020 at 3:28 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

I'll always love the end of "Helpless" when Paul slams the "54 women you either raped, molested, or abused."

Or Ben telling that twat Melnick, there was nothing she could come up with that would make him agreeable to give Merritt a deal.

But I've noticed that Bounce channel blurs out a lot of semi-naked pictures of victims.

"In the future, sir, stay off the evening news."

[andromeda331]

6 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

 Yeah I wondered why Judge Bradley allowed the defendant to call an alibi witness when it was blatant perjury. I get why he excluded the tape, but I thought it was stupid of Green to use a toothpick like that, it did seem like they could just stop him from entering if they thought evidence was going to be destroyed. 

I’m not sure what you mean about it getting reversed on appeal, the prosecution can’t appeal, only the defense can and they had no reason to here since the defendant wasn’t convicted. 

Oops your right. It stinks that the Judge helped the defendant get away with his crime and won't receive any punishment for it.

[Xeliou66]

I watched Prejudice tonight and this was another episode where I was somewhat annoyed with Nora - she seemed to sympathize with the defense and just stood on the sidelines making academic commentary the way she usually did. I like the episode a lot, I really liked McCoy’s outrage at how the defense was trying to use the perps racism to get him a not guilty by insanity verdict and his closing argument was really good. 

There was one error in the show - Skoda should’ve testified before the defense expert, not afterwards, the prosecution presents its case before the defense, that was a glaring and stupid error in the episode. That being said, Skoda was great as always.

The investigation was good as well, I liked Briscoe and Green tracking down the witnesses and figuring out the perps identity. 

I think this was the first episode of the show that mentioned 9/11 directly. 

[WendyCR72]

Peacock launched today. While the Mothership is available for streaming, as reported, not all seasons are available. The seasons that are able to be streamed are Seasons 13 to 20, in case anyone was curious.

I find this strange as TV channels also show SVU and Criminal Intent, but all seasons of those versions are available, so the contract stipulations impeding the Mothership must be strange.

[GHScorpiosRule]

14 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Peacock launched today. While the Mothership is available for streaming, as reported, not all seasons are available. The seasons that are able to be streamed are Seasons 13 to 20, in case anyone was curious.

These are the SAME seasons that air on Sundance in a continuous loop! BAH!!!! But hey, PSYCH 2: THE MOVIE: LASSIE COME HOME! also launched!

[stonehaven]

Season 13-20 are also on ION on a loop too....I pay for Philo to watch the episodes on WE and Sundance..(they play early ones too every now and then) but was hoping the Peacock would have ALL of Law and Order so I don't have to subject myself to Love After Lock Up commercials.

[GHScorpiosRule]

9 minutes ago, stonehaven said:

Season 13-20 are also on ION on a loop too....I pay for Philo to watch the episodes on WE and Sundance..(they play early ones too every now and then) but was hoping the Peacock would have ALL of Law and Order so I don't have to subject myself to Love After Lock Up commercials.

Bounce has the early seasons, but they edit out too many scenes!!!

Like in Season 3’s “Forgiveness” they cut out Liz talking to the killer-where you could see he made killing Beth all her fault.🤬

[WendyCR72]

I know WE shows all seasons because their commercials harp on the fact that they have "all 456 episodes". But it seems like the early seasons are not shown as frequently as the later seasons are.

[Xeliou66]

WE does show every season but it has been a long time since I’ve seen the first couple of seasons on. I’m sure they will come around to playing them eventually. Sundance I think shows every season as well, but they tend to stick to the later seasons. I know ION only plays seasons 13-20. I do wish the earlier seasons came on more often, they are good and don’t get shown very much. 

[Scarlett45]

I love Law and Order but Im awful at remembering the episode titles. 

 

Last night I watched the one where a man was killed surrounded fraud in Little League baseball. A Honduran man brought this child to the USA to play little league under his younger cousin's name (so that he would be two years younger). I can see plausible deniability regarding the boy's passport given that children change change looks a LOT in 5yrs (or however long child passports are valid in Honduras), but I couldn't believe how Jack was treating the boy. "He knew right from wrong." He was FOURTEEN. What 14yrs year old is able to DISOBEY their parent, it wasn't as if they conspired to murder someone. Even in that instance I wouldn't blame a 14yrs old child for keeping quiet and obeying their parent. And it didn't just seem as if he would bluffing to get the father to confess. 

 

 

[Xeliou66]

2 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I love Law and Order but Im awful at remembering the episode titles. 

 

Last night I watched the one where a man was killed surrounded fraud in Little League baseball. A Honduran man brought this child to the USA to play little league under his younger cousin's name (so that he would be two years younger). I can see plausible deniability regarding the boy's passport given that children change change looks a LOT in 5yrs (or however long child passports are valid in Honduras), but I couldn't believe how Jack was treating the boy. "He knew right from wrong." He was FOURTEEN. What 14yrs year old is able to DISOBEY their parent, it wasn't as if they conspired to murder someone. Even in that instance I wouldn't blame a 14yrs old child for keeping quiet and obeying their parent. And it didn't just seem as if he would bluffing to get the father to confess. 

 

 

I’m pretty sure the episode you are talking about is Foul Play, season 12 episode 21.

[Regalbegal]

On 7/15/2020 at 6:23 PM, WendyCR72 said:

I know WE shows all seasons because their commercials harp on the fact that they have "all 456 episodes". But it seems like the early seasons are not shown as frequently as the later seasons are.

I have been watching the repeats on WE during my virtual lunch breaks.  They are showing the latter seasons now, and I have been painfully reminded how irritating I found Mike Cutter.  It is like they took all the most annoying parts of McCoy, added a lot of whininess, and removed all of the innate charm of Sam Waterston.  And the romantic vibe they were trying to force between him and Rubirosa was just gross  (no I didn't have a problem when the did the same thing with Claire and Jack, and yes that makes be a hypocrite, but Sam Waterston has long been my older man crush so I can totally see why Claire would have went there).   Also, I can't look at Linus Roche the same after seeing Mandy. 

Just had to get that off my chest! 

Edited July 17, 2020 by Regalbegal
Claire is not Abby! It has been a long day.

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, Regalbegal said:

I have been watching the repeats on WE during my virtual lunch breaks.  They are showing the latter seasons now, and I have been painfully reminded how irritating I found Mike Cutter.  It is like they took all the most annoying parts of McCoy, added a lot of whininess, and removed all of the innate charm of Sam Waterston.  And the romantic vibe they were trying to force between him and Rubirosa was just gross  (no I didn't have a problem when the did the same thing with Abby and Jack, and yes that makes be a hypocrite, but Sam Waterston has long been my older man crush so I can totally see why Abby would have went there).   Also, I can't look at Linus Roche the same after seeing Mandy. 

Just had to get that off my chest! 

Overall I liked Cutter, he wasn’t as good as McCoy or Stone but I thought he was pretty good, but one thing annoyed me about him was how often he had to resort to some form of trickery to win a case. It seemed like it happened often in season 19, Cutter would have to resort to some form of trickery in order to put the perps away, and it got tiresome. Fortunately that didn’t happen in season 20. But I thought Cutter was a decent character who had good chemistry with the rest of the cast and fit in well. I love the final seasons, the cast had great chemistry and the cases were good as well. 

As for the Cutter/Rubirosa thing, I always felt that it was just one sided, that Cutter had a crush on Rubirosa but it wasn’t mutual. Fortunately they never explicitly said anything about it, I really liked how the Mothership rarely delved into the characters personal business or got soapy. 

I never got a lot of sexual tension between Jack and Abbie, it was there between McCoy and Kincaid, and it was later confirmed after Kincaid’s death that the 2 had slept together, but I never sensed a lot of sexual tension between McCoy and the other ADA’s. I’m glad they never explicitly went into that stuff, it kept the show from being a soap opera, it was very well done how we only got glimpses into the chracaters lives for the most part. 

[Regalbegal]

57 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

I never got a lot of sexual tension between Jack and Abbie, it was there between McCoy and Kincaid, and it was later confirmed after Kincaid’s death that the 2 had slept together, but I never sensed a lot of sexual tension between McCoy and the other ADA’s. I’m glad they never explicitly went into that stuff, it kept the show from being a soap opera, it was very well done how we only got glimpses into the chracaters lives for the most part. 

Sorry, it looks like you responded before I edited!  I had a complete brain fart, I meant Claire and Jack.  I agree with you that they handled that angle really well. Maybe the one-sided nature of Cutter/Rubirosa was why it felt so icky to me. 

Edited July 17, 2020 by Regalbegal
typo

[wanderingstar]

On 7/15/2020 at 5:25 PM, WendyCR72 said:

Peacock launched today. While the Mothership is available for streaming, as reported, not all seasons are available. The seasons that are able to be streamed are Seasons 13 to 20, in case anyone was curious.

I find this strange as TV channels also show SVU and Criminal Intent, but all seasons of those versions are available, so the contract stipulations impeding the Mothership must be strange.

Do we know what the rationale is for only streaming the last 8 seasons?

[Ailianna]

On 7/14/2020 at 11:56 PM, Xeliou66 said:

There was one error in the show - Skoda should’ve testified before the defense expert, not afterwards, the prosecution presents its case before the defense, that was a glaring and stupid error in the episode. That being said, Skoda was great as always.

Actually, commonly with a psychiatric defense, the defense has to actually put on evidence of mental disease/defect/et cetera BEFORE the prosecution can rebut that case.  So they got it right--the defense has to put on their guy first, then Skoda would come.  This also allows a defendant to decide if they will put on the defense AFTER they've seen the entire prosecution case, so that they can decide if they even feel they need to put on a defense.  Just because they give notice doesn't mean they have to do it, and the People can't attack the defense unless it's used.  I appreciate that they did get this detail right, even though some armchair lawyers may not.

[Door County Cherry]

8 hours ago, Gillian Rosh said:

Do we know what the rationale is for only streaming the last 8 seasons?

I thought I read something about a channel potentially having exclusive rights to the earlier seasons of L&O whereas that's not the case with later seasons and when that agreement ends, Peacock will get them all.  

But that's pure spec. 

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, Door County Cherry said:

I thought I read something about a channel potentially having exclusive rights to the earlier seasons of L&O whereas that's not the case with later seasons and when that agreement ends, Peacock will get them all.  

But that's pure spec. 

Bounce shows the early episodes --and I think maybe all of the episodes. 
I think Bounce is CBS, whereas Peacock is NBC.
FWIW.

[shapeshifter]

Yesterday 17.22 "The Family Hour" (18 May 2007) aired on ION, which has several oddly dropped balls.

1. I've seen "The Family Hour" a few times, probably never paying close attention, so I thought maybe I just kept missing the explanation for the zany Judge Dilwynn who noted actor Jeffrey Tambor plays so OTT.🌟
    
2. Also, since I was watching it as the first episode of ION's regularly-scheduled 5-episode Friday mini-binge,⭐ I noticed that this is "Beauty Queen" Nina Cassady's last episode --without so much as a "don't let the door hit you..." (?!)
3. And Arthur Branch likewise disappears into the sunset so Fred Thompson can quit acting for politics. 😞
    
4. And,⭐ Jeremy Sisto plays a defense attorney in this episode and then appears in the very next episode as Detective Lupo. 

Okay, so 2, 3, and 4 can be excused because the next episode is 18.1 and doesn't air until January 2, 2008, over 7 months later.
They may have planned this advance because there aren't any cut scenes mentioned anywhere; and, the writers' strike ran from November 5, 2007, to February 12, 2008, but I don't see any mention of its effect WRT L&O season 18 either (wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_%26_Order_(season_18)). 
Pure speculation by me, shapeshifter: Maybe there was some script cutting earlier on for Nina's departure when they signed both notable actors Jeffrey Tambor and Harry Hamlin to appear, and wanted to give them as much screen time as possible (imdb.com/title/tt1023387/?ref_=fn_ep_tt_2).

🌟So, to the point of why is Judge Dilwyn (Jeffrey Tambor) so zany?
A few lines touch on it:

Quote

[IN THE HOSPITAL ROOM OF THE KILLER SENATOR WHERE HE IS RECUPERATING FROM SELF-INFLICTED, SUPERFICIAL KNIFE WOUNDS INTENDED TO DEMONSTRATE THAT HE WAS ATTACKED BEFORE STABBING HIS DAUGHTER TO DEATH WITH 13 DEEP CUTS, WHICH NINA SAW HIM SELF-INFLICT;
JACK] Judge, there are no cameras
allowed in the courtroom.

[ZANY JUDGE DILWYN] Does this look like a courtroom?
Are you...Are you in pain, Senator? Can we
get this man an extra pillow?

- - - - - - -

[CONNIE ?] Judge Dilwynn?
Never heard of him.

[JACK] He rotated in from
Surrogates Court.
This trial deserves better.

- - - - - - -

[JACK MCCOY, AFTER JUDGE DILWYNN'S FURTHER REMARKS] Have you even read
our brief, Judge?...

[DILWYNN] Oh, Mr. McCoy, there's a family
here, drowning in tragedies.
What's the right thing to do?

[MCCOY? (STUTTERING)] Well, there... There's
the law. With a capital L.
And there's people, too.

[DILWYNN?] But I'm not supposed
to think about them.
But I am thinking about them.

[JACK MCCOY]
Judge, I'm going to ask that you recuse yourself
from this case.
It's clear that your service in Surrogates Court has not prepared you to preside over a murder case.

[DILWYNN] Not prepared?
Well, now, I am insulted.
And you are denied, Mr. McCoy.

and so on. Interestingly, Judge Dilwynn likes Nina. 
Anyway. So Jeffrey Tambor's schtick is pretty much zany, but after some internet mining I found that likely he was invited for this role because:
(https://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/clean-corrupt-surrogate-courts-wake-vote-article-1.313404, August 13, 2008)

Quote

Every couple of years, like clockwork, scandal hits New York's Surrogate Courts, which sort out the estates of people who die without a will or leave a will that's unclear or contested.

In the wrong hands, the system lends itself to abuse. The elected surrogates have the power to appoint private attorneys to look after large sums of money.

A rogues' gallery of chiselers and crooks has flocked to the courts over the years, running up bills and draining money that rightfully belongs to the heirs and descendants of the dead.

That's why Manhattan Democrats need to pay attention to the upcoming primary for surrogate.

Most people don't think about the court until the headlines report high-profile cases like Brooke Astor's $132 million estate or the late Leona Helmsley's nutty attempt to leave $12 million to her dog.

But the reality is much less glamorous than those headlines. Last month, Daily News investigative reporter Nancie Katz uncovered a mess in the Bronx, where Surrogate Lee Holzman allowed politically connected lawyers to run up more than $2 million in fees while 37 heirs waited - some for more than a decade - and collected nothing.

To make matters worse, some of the Bronx estate money was improperly placed in risky investments that tanked. Taxpayers may end up covering the $20 million loss.

And then there's Brooklyn, where ex-Surrogate Michael Feinberg was removed from office in 2005 for improperly allowing one of his pals to take excessively high fees from estates of the dead.

The scandals are nothing new. As far back as the 1930s, corruption problems led the city Bar Association to call for the Surrogate's Court to be folded into the general court system - an idea still worth considering. Sen. Robert Kennedy mounted his own reform effort in the 1960s. And 40 years after his death we're still trying to protect widows, orphans and the dead from predatory pols and lawyers....

See also about NY Surrogate Courts: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Surrogate's_Court#cite_note-6

Edited July 18, 2020 by shapeshifter

[GHScorpiosRule]

OMGEE!!!! After rewatching John Adams and then scrolling for similar shows about the American Revolution, (with no luck that are available) I found some description that George Grizzard, who played the arrogant, odious asshole Arthur Gold, played John Adams!!! In the 1976 The John Adams Chronicles mini-series!

And he was on Perry Mason!!!! Have to scoop out that episode of “The Case of the Scandalous Scoundrel”.

Too bad we no longer have a full forum, or I’d put this in the Cast in Other Roles thread!🤪

[wknt3]

On 7/17/2020 at 4:29 PM, Door County Cherry said:

I thought I read something about a channel potentially having exclusive rights to the earlier seasons of L&O whereas that's not the case with later seasons and when that agreement ends, Peacock will get them all.  

But that's pure spec. 

Yes it's all about rights issues. I'm assuming that when TNT dropped the show and WE got the rights to all the episodes that they probably got the internet/streaming rights for the early seasons as part of it since at that point every media company hadn't decided they needed their own streaming service. A;ll of these new streaming services are launching before some of their main attractions are ready to go. Once the existing deals expire they move over just like HBO Max and The West Wing. They didn't pay Dick Wolf a boatload of money twice (for the rights and a new production deal) and renew the zombified corpse of SVU for 3(!!!) more seasons to get less than half of the show's episodes!

Edited July 19, 2020 by wknt3

[Xeliou66]

I saw Jeopardy tonight, great episode, where the judge, Schiff’s old friend, took the bribe from the defendants wealthy mother to acquit the defendant. Outstanding plot and some great moments for Schiff, I especially like the scene where Schiff walks in to the interrogation room where Hynes was being interrogated, and just stood in the doorway until everyone exited, it showed how Schiff could say a lot without saying a single word, implying with just a look that he wanted to speak to Hynes alone, and it showed everyone’s respect for Schiff. This was the only time Schiff visited the police station BTW. 

Also, I liked how Schiff slowly realized something was off with Hynes and his look of disappointment when he realized it, and his reaction changing from happiness at being able to put away Nicados to a look of sorrow at the end when finding out about Hynes’ suicide, and telling Kincaid to bring the liquor bottle to him. Schiff was awesome , an upstanding and wise man who said a lot with very few words. 

I really liked McCoy’s argument for reinstating the murder charges, saying that since the trial was rigged jeopardy never attached and justice wasn’t to be sold to the highest bidder. 

The investigation was good as well, but it was overshadowed by the more memorable legal stuff.

I liked McCoy’s quip after Nicados said he didn’t do anything - “you’ve already learned the Rikers island theme song, good for you”.

I liked the reference to Ben Stone, when it was mentioned Hynes had presided over one of Stone’s cases, where he made a different ruling allowing the forensic evidence in that he had tossed out in the current case.

Overall a fantastic episode, probably my favorite from season 6, great case with some good stuff for each character, especially Schiff. 

Edited July 21, 2020 by Xeliou66

[shapeshifter]

4.1 "Sweeps" is airing on Bounce. Stone (Michael Moriarty) says "I'd wear clown makeup if I thought it'd get me a conviction," a line later (and more famously) spoken by Fin Tutuola (Ice T) on SVU. I can't find it now. It used to serve as the title of a thread on an old message board. 

[catlover79]

For those of you who have WE, they will be starting S2 tomorrow. You all know what that means. Everybody's favorite episode, "The Wages of Love" will be on. "I am not a piece of FURNITURE, Mr. Stone!!"

[catlover79]

21 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I liked McCoy’s quip after Nicados said he didn’t do anything - “congratulations, you’ve already learned the Rikers island theme song”.

The way Sam says the line is even funnier. 😂

[Cobalt Stargazer]

9 hours ago, catlover79 said:

For those of you who have WE, they will be starting S2 tomorrow. You all know what that means. Everybody's favorite episode, "The Wages of Love" will be on. "I am not a piece of FURNITURE, Mr. Stone!!"

"We were married for twenty-five yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeears!"

[GHScorpiosRule]

10 minutes ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

"We were married for twenty-five yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeears!"

Hey! That’s MY line!!

[GHScorpiosRule]

😭😭😭😭😭 No more Cragen or Paul!!!!!

But HOOYAH!!! Hellooooo Lt. Van Buren/AWESOME Epatha L. Merkeson!!!

[Cobalt Stargazer]

4 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Hey! That’s MY line!!

Well, you'll be able to hear it plenty later. Fifty thousand times until your head's ready to explode because she won't stop saying it. 😛

[balmz]

On 7/20/2020 at 11:49 AM, shapeshifter said:

4.1 "Sweeps" is airing on Bounce. Stone (Michael Moriarty) says "I'd wear clown makeup if I thought it'd get me a conviction," a line later (and more famously) spoken by Fin Tutuola (Ice T) on SVU. I can't find it now. It used to serve as the title of a thread on an old message board. 

 

19 hours ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

"We were married for twenty-five yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeears!"

 

heh with the different amusing comments and lines it lead me to an idea for a fun game

 

sorry in advance if this isn't allowed, if l&o still had its own section i would post it as it's own thread

 

here's the game idea, we post lines or quotes from different episodes and people here try to guess what episode it was from, for extra fun if you wish, say the line but don't post who said it in the show

 

here's a few of my choice lines

 

1.  

He jumped into the car and took off like a bat out of H. E. double hockey sticks.

 What precinct are you from? Sesame Street?

 

2.If I don't leave here with a guilty plea, Mr. Corley, I promise you'll do 45 years hard time. They'll wheel me out of my retirement home to be at your parole hearings.

 

3.: A lot of effort to wind up right back where you started. And in polite society, sir, you don't call people by their first name unless they ask you to. I didn't do that. You're not a friend, and you're certainly not a colleague.

 

4. The kid's a done deal. She's a textbook serial killer. You just got her early.

5. you sold me?

[Xeliou66]

19 hours ago, balmz said:

 

 

heh with the different amusing comments and lines it lead me to an idea for a fun game

 

sorry in advance if this isn't allowed, if l&o still had its own section i would post it as it's own thread

 

here's the game idea, we post lines or quotes from different episodes and people here try to guess what episode it was from, for extra fun if you wish, say the line but don't post who said it in the show

 

here's a few of my choice lines

 

1.  

He jumped into the car and took off like a bat out of H. E. double hockey sticks.

 What precinct are you from? Sesame Street?

 

2.If I don't leave here with a guilty plea, Mr. Corley, I promise you'll do 45 years hard time. They'll wheel me out of my retirement home to be at your parole hearings.

 

3.: A lot of effort to wind up right back where you started. And in polite society, sir, you don't call people by their first name unless they ask you to. I didn't do that. You're not a friend, and you're certainly not a colleague.

 

4. The kid's a done deal. She's a textbook serial killer. You just got her early.

5. you sold me?

1 - that was an exchange between a uniformed officer and Briscoe in Patient Zero. Makes me laugh everytime.

2 - McCoy in Acid.

3 - Stone to Philip Swann in American Dream - excellent lines.

4 - Skoda in Killerz

5 - It sounds like a McCoy line but I’m not sure about the episode. 

 

I like this game idea, here are a few quotes, go ahead and guess who said them and the episode 

 

1 - “If he was still alive, I would hire him to talk to himself”

2 - “Between Internal Affairs and you, the Red Sox couldn’t have done a better job of botching it up”

3 - “Give me the keys to your house, or I’ll charge you with murder. I’m the DA, I can do it. Give me $10000, or I’ll tell the feds about that shipment of heroin I saw you pick up at JFK. I’m the DA, they’ll listen. What would you do? I can tell you what I’ll be doing for the next 10 years or so, I’ll be in Attica, because what I just did is called extortion, and it’s a felony”. 

4 - “a girl raped, a sister on trial for murder, Shambala Green with a jury, she’ll milk em till they moo”.

Edited July 22, 2020 by Xeliou66

[balmz]

20 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

1 - that was an exchange between a uniformed officer and Briscoe in Patient Zero. Makes me laugh everytime.

2 - McCoy in Acid.

3 - Stone to Philip Swann in American Dream - excellent lines.

4 - Skoda in Killerz

5 - It sounds like a McCoy line but I’m not sure about the episode. 

 

I like this game idea, here are a few quotes, go ahead and guess who said them and the episode 

 

1 - “If he was still alive, I would hire him to talk to himself”

2 - “Between Internal Affairs and you, the Red Sox couldn’t have done a better job of botching it up”

3 - “Give me the keys to your house, or I’ll charge you with murder. I’m the DA, I can do it. Give me $10000, or I’ll tell the feds about that shipment of heroin I saw you pick up at JFK. I’m the DA, they’ll listen. What would you do? I can tell you what I’ll be doing for the next 10 years or so, I’ll be in Attica, because what I just did is called extortion, and it’s a felony”. 

4 - “a girl raped, a sister on trial for murder, Shambala Green with a jury, she’ll milk em till they moo”.

number 5 is the kid in smoked when he finds out what the parents did

 

1.  compassion?

2.  dwb

3. virtue

4. no idea

[Xeliou66]

15 minutes ago, balmz said:

number 5 is the kid in smoked when he finds out what the parents did

 

1.  compassion?

2.  dwb

3. virtue

4. no idea

Ah yes the kid from Smoked.

Yes you are right about the episodes for the first 3 quotes, can you name who said them? I won’t reveal the 4th one now to give others a shot at it. 

[balmz]

30 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Ah yes the kid from Smoked.

Yes you are right about the episodes for the first 3 quotes, can you name who said them? I won’t reveal the 4th one now to give others a shot at it. 

1. mccoy i guess

2 adam

3mccoy

[Xeliou66]

22 minutes ago, balmz said:

1. mccoy i guess

2 adam

3mccoy

1 was Briscoe, talking about the victim in Compassion. One of the funniest lines of the show IMO.

Correct on 2 and 3. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

I LOATHE "Black Tie" so, so, so much.

The first being that line from Van Buren to Logan about how he has an issue with her "rank in a skirt."

HUH? What? There was NEVER any indication that Logan had ANY issues with his new commanding officer because she was a woman. 

What the fook, Show?

The other being that smug, smug, smug ASSHOLE of a defense lawyer, who always plays such a smug, smug, smug asshole.