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(edited)

Yes it’s the same guy who was in the CI episode Purgatory and a few other CI episodes that played the defense lawyer.

I like Immortal a lot, it’s a very interesting story. I thought it was a lousy move by Cutter to ask about Van Buren’s cancer on the stand without warning her beforehand, I get why he did it but he was still a dick for doing it without asking Van Buren beforehand or at least letting her know beforehand, and I was glad Van Buren blew him off at the end. I liked Cutter, McCoy and Rubirosa working out a deal at the end with both the killer and Hema Labs, very good scene. 

Edited by Xeliou66
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9 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yes it’s the same guy who was in the CI episode Purgatory and a few other CI episodes that played the defense lawyer.

I like Immortal a lot, it’s a very interesting story. I thought it was a lousy move by Cutter to ask about Van Buren’s cancer on the stand without warning her beforehand, I get why he did it but he was still a dick for doing it without asking Van Buren beforehand or at least letting her know beforehand, and I was glad Van Buren blew him off at the end. I liked Cutter, McCoy and Rubirosa working out a deal at the end with both the killer and Hema Labs, very good scene. 

Not Mike's finest moment. Wait, that was his second asshole move. Though the one with Anita was much worse. The first of course, was ambushing Liz about her relationship with Mike Logan* on the stand. And it was so odd--the episode after "Immortal" you saw Anita still hadn't forgiven Mike for what he'd done, yet in the series finale, they seemed to have "made up" if you will.

*No one will convince me it wasn't MIKE that Liz had a relationship with, and how in the bluedilly FUCK did Jack know about it anyway, since it was Ben Stone who was ADA at the time. I can't imagine Liz confiding this to Jack, but apparently, she did. Whatever, Show.

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2 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Not Mike's finest moment. Wait, that was his second asshole move. Though the one with Anita was much worse. The first of course, was ambushing Liz about her relationship with Mike Logan* on the stand. And it was so odd--the episode after "Immortal" you saw Anita still hadn't forgiven Mike for what he'd done, yet in the series finale, they seemed to have "made up" if you will.

*No one will convince me it wasn't MIKE that Liz had a relationship with, and how in the bluedilly FUCK did Jack know about it anyway, since it was Ben Stone who was ADA at the time. I can't imagine Liz confiding this to Jack, but apparently, she did. Whatever, Show.

How did we see in Love Eternal (the episode after Immortal) that Van Buren and Cutter still had a beef? Nothing was said about it and I don’t recall them having any scenes together in it. 

And regarding Olivet’s affair with a cop, if it was Logan, well Jack was an ADA at the time and I’m sure he worked with Olivet on cases, we just didn’t see it. 

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2 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

How did we see in Love Eternal (the episode after Immortal) that Van Buren and Cutter still had a beef? Nothing was said about it and I don’t recall them having any scenes together in it. 

I think Mike saw Anita and said something to her, but she was very cool toward him, and I think he said something about how she hadn't forgiven him for what he did in "Immortal"? Or something about how she was still upset. And then we get to the finale and they're smiling like nothing happened.

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26 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I think Mike saw Anita and said something to her, but she was very cool toward him, and I think he said something about how she hadn't forgiven him for what he did in "Immortal"? Or something about how she was still upset. And then we get to the finale and they're smiling like nothing happened.

No nothing was said in Love Eternal about what happened in Immortal. 

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1 hour ago, Waterston Fan said:

Dang Van Buren, what is wrong with Lupo and Bernard's beards? Lupo just looks so babyface without one. 

I could swear that the NYPD pointed out that cops can't wear beards under their rules and that's why they shaved them off - anyone else remember that?

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here's a question i have been meaning to ask, who are some tragic or sympathetic perps you can remember in the show? you don't have to agree, approve, condone or support what they did, just ones you felt bad for

a few come to mind for me

the slave boy in chattel who was enslaved, then made to kill two people and now may never be freed

donnie from slave who's mother sold him as a slave basically to a drug dealer and called him a pain in the ass

the king dog from who let the dogs out, nora's line says it best, abused, tortured and now destroyed  

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Been watching the show on WE and Sundance..jumping from Branch and Shiff to DA is really quite startling...I lean towards Branch's politics at times but man did he grate....I recall not liking him much during the original airings but today, I found myself running from the room whenever Branch was talking...and the only thing (aside from the Lesbian thing) that I recall is her arguing for remand a lot..Give me Abby or Claire any day....

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59 minutes ago, balmz said:

here's a question i have been meaning to ask, who are some tragic or sympathetic perps you can remember in the show? you don't have to agree, approve, condone or support what they did, just ones you felt bad for

a few come to mind for me

the slave boy in chattel who was enslaved, then made to kill two people and now may never be freed

donnie from slave who's mother sold him as a slave basically to a drug dealer and called him a pain in the ass

the king dog from who let the dogs out, nora's line says it best, abused, tortured and now destroyed  

I was just watching Securitate (DVRed) today, and I think the son qualifies for this. They agreed and gave him a very minimal sentence.

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One sympathetic perp that immediately comes to mind is the guy in Ritual who killed the guy who was going to perform female genital mutiliation on his daughter. I think he had a strong case of defending a 3rd party and I wouldn’t have minded seeing him walk, it would’ve been interesting to see that case go to trial and I don’t think a jury would’ve convicted him.

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2 hours ago, balmz said:

here's a question i have been meaning to ask, who are some tragic or sympathetic perps you can remember in the show? you don't have to agree, approve, condone or support what they did, just ones you felt bad for

a few come to mind for me

the slave boy in chattel who was enslaved, then made to kill two people and now may never be freed

donnie from slave who's mother sold him as a slave basically to a drug dealer and called him a pain in the ass

the king dog from who let the dogs out, nora's line says it best, abused, tortured and now destroyed  

Chattel for sure. Boy Gone Astray.

I have seen these two recently and they come to my mind. 

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21 hours ago, Waterston Fan said:

Fed... It was nice to see Rey again and they made a comment about Lennie.

Blackmail.... Dang Van Buren, what is wrong with Lupo and Bernard's beards? Lupo just looks so babyface without one. 

20 hours ago, ML89 said:

I could swear that the NYPD pointed out that cops can't wear beards under their rules and that's why they shaved them off - anyone else remember that?

It was actually Dick Wolf not the NYPD who objected, or at least it was Dick Wolf whose objections mattered. As to what the motivation was it seems to have been aesthetic, although realism was the official excuse. I remember the rumor at the time being that Dick Wolf's wife thought it looked unprofessional and ugly and she convinced him to give the order.

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6 hours ago, wknt3 said:

It was actually Dick Wolf not the NYPD who objected, or at least it was Dick Wolf whose objections mattered. As to what the motivation was it seems to have been aesthetic, although realism was the official excuse. I remember the rumor at the time being that Dick Wolf's wife thought it looked unprofessional and ugly and she convinced him to give the order.

Seems very arbitrary, since VDO over on CI wore a beard in the later years and no one said boo.

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5 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Yeah, but Vincent D'Onofrio = arbitrary. Right?

Huh? I meant the decision making. Nothing else. Maybe VDO was a bigger "name", but even "names" sometimes get rules from their bosses. Or I'd think so. I don't know.

In any case, though, I think losing the beard was a bad call from Wolf (or his wife) for Jeremy Sisto. The beard made him look older, which I think he needed!

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22 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Seems very arbitrary, since VDO over on CI wore a beard in the later years and no one said boo.


Yeah, but I can think of a number of non-arbitrary reasons for letting him keep the beard, including having heard the fan feedback and trying to hide some of the puffiness in VDO's face. Personally I hope it's the former - it would be nice if both the network and Wolf learned something from their mistakes in the last years of the mothership and did things differently when they had the chance with CI.

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38 minutes ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

I think shaving the beard off of Sisto was a big mistake, especially since the heavy makeup they used on him looked very obvious on camera.  

I think Anderson looked better with the beard too. But then, depending on who it is, I like guys with beards. 

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Finally saw Rubber Room. I really liked this episode and glad the show signed off with a bang.  No pun intended. 

The girl who said it would be epic, I was waiting for her dad to say, your grounding will be epic. 

The ending was nice but kinda strange that we never got to see Mike and Anita kiss and make up but I bet she won't ever forget what he did. I liked Anita's hair the last few episodes even though I realize they gave her the cancer storyline. 

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10 minutes ago, Waterston Fan said:

Finally saw Rubber Room. I really liked this episode and glad the show signed off with a bang.  No pun intended. 

The girl who said it would be epic, I was waiting for her dad to say, your grounding will be epic. 

The ending was nice but kinda strange that we never got to see Mike and Anita kiss and make up but I bet she won't ever forget what he did. I liked Anita's hair the last few episodes even though I realize they gave her the cancer storyline. 

I liked the party. My headcanon is Logan, Curtis and Green were there, and stuffed an envelope full of cash with "in honor of Lennie" on it into the jar.

I think it's funny to see the one about cancer from 5th season where Van Buren says she wouldn't keep working juxtaposed with her working in season 20. I wish we'd gotten season 21 but it would have been hard not seeing her there in charge, considering it's only been her and Cragen at the ol' 2-7. 

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I loved Rubber Room, I thought it made for a great finale. I’m disappointed that the show didn’t make it to season 21, considering how good it was in season 20, but I’m glad the show went out on a high note. 

I liked the party as well, and I would like to think that Logan, Curtis and Green were there as well. I liked that ME Rodgers was shown at the party, she was in so many episodes for so long that it was nice to see her in attendance. 

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12 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I loved Rubber Room, I thought it made for a great finale. I’m disappointed that the show didn’t make it to season 21, considering how good it was in season 20, but I’m glad the show went out on a high note. 

I liked the party as well, and I would like to think that Logan, Curtis and Green were there as well. I liked that ME Rodgers was shown at the party, she was in so many episodes for so long that it was nice to see her in attendance. 

So am I. I always forget until I watch it how great season 20 was. I love Anita agreeing with "Nancy" in Switch about liars. Is it wrong that I liked both of Megan's personalities?

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(edited)

S14 E11 "Darwinian" just aired, in which (metacritic.com 2004)

Quote

The apparent hit-and-run of a homeless man send the detectives on a search for the driver, a high profile female publicist, which fuels the fire for the prosecutors to obtain a murder conviction. Forensic evidence given during the trial reveal that the victim was severely beaten before being hit by the car which leads to a suspect within the homeless community

The woman driving the $200,000+ car that hit the schizophrenic homeless victim gets off with probation and community service because an independent autopsy shows he died from an injury sustained hours earlier even though she first reveals during initial interrogation by Briscoe and Green that:

Quote

Hey, don't I have the right not to worry about some drunken bum stumbling in front of my car? Scaring me half to death.

Oh, yeah, how dare they wander into your neighborhood.

It was an accident.
He just, 
It was late, and he just he just stepped out right in front of me.
He just came out of nowhere, and I hit the brake, but he just flew into my windshield.
And he was just hanging there like half in and half out.
I just I panicked, so I I just turned the car into the garage.

And I don't suppose calling an ambulance for the poor bastard ever crossed your mind.

It wasn't like that.

Was he still alive when you pulled in?

He was moaning and I just I went inside for a few minutes to calm down, because I was so scared.
And I just I sat there trying to figure out what to do.
And I could I could hear him calling for help.

You heard him calling for help.

Yeah.
When I went back to check on him Oh, God.
He was dead.

and even though at trial it is pointed out that:

Quote

The defendant left this man in her garage to die. If she'd gotten him medical attention, the doctors might have detected the hematoma, stopped the bleeding, saved his life. 

because defense attorney (played by Dylan Baker) says that:

Quote

I count at least three "maybes"in there.

the judge then rules:

Quote

The criminally negligent homicide charge is dismissed. I'm accepting the defendant's pleas on obstruction and tampering. 

It seems wrong that the rich witch gets off with probation.

Edited by shapeshifter
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It was not right that the rich witch in Darwinian got off with a slap on the wrist, but unfortunately it’s all too common for the wealthy and well connected to get off easy. She should’ve gone to prison, she could’ve gotten the guy help and perhaps saved his life, instead she just left him to die because she was a snobby uncaring elitist bitch. Darwinian is a great episode but it pissed me off that she got off. 

The situation in Sanctuary is a bit different IMO although it was similar in that a privileged person got off lightly for a hit and run, in Sanctuary the guy just left the scene, in Darwinian the woman heard the guy moaning in her garage and left him there to die, there was a big difference between the cases. 

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28 minutes ago, balmz said:

here's a another discussion question, who are some of the most evil non main perp characters in the series you can remember?

I don't know what you mean by "non-main" since this show wasn't serialized, but a procedural. But for me, Jacob Lowenstein ("Indifference")tops the list.

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2 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I don't know what you mean by "non-main" since this show wasn't serialized, but a procedural. But for me, Jacob Lowenstein ("Indifference")tops the list.

oh i meant like not the main perp or villain of the episode

like in falling, the parents who wanted to have the daughter undergo an operation to keep her a child forever, granted the mom was the perp of the episode but the father supported it as well.

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33 minutes ago, balmz said:

oh i meant like not the main perp or villain of the episode

like in falling, the parents who wanted to have the daughter undergo an operation to keep her a child forever, granted the mom was the perp of the episode but the father supported it as well.

Carla in "Indifference" and the mother, Katherine McKinnon in season four's "Pride and Joy." I HATED her. Such wilful ignorance and blindness in ignoring that her son, who killed his FATHER, a GOOD MAN, and who also ABUSED him. But nope. Dad was the abusive and mean one. Little Psycho's mother in season 10's "Killerz" too. I could go on and on. But I'm at work right now.

The DELUSIONAL brother and father in "Life Choice", the asshat husband in "Precious" also played the delusional brother in "Life Choice."

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I saw Thrill today, and this is another episode where I wanted to slap Curtis, he had no business trying to tell McCoy what to do with regards to the confession, and he was a self righteous, sanctimonious prick as usual. I really couldn’t stand Curtis a lot of the time.

It was a good episode though, although since it was the season 8 premiere I would’ve liked a reference to the events of season 7’s finale where Schiff’s wife died, just a line by McCoy asking Schiff how he was doing or something.

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4 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I saw Thrill today, and this is another episode where I wanted to slap Curtis, he had no business trying to tell McCoy what to do with regards to the confession, and he was a self righteous, sanctimonious prick as usual. I really couldn’t stand Curtis a lot of the time.

It was a good episode though, although since it was the season 8 premiere I would’ve liked a reference to the events of season 7’s finale where Schiff’s wife died, just a line by McCoy asking Schiff how he was doing or something.

So would I. They really should have had McCoy ask him.

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17 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Carla in "Indifference" and the mother, Katherine McKinnon in season four's "Pride and Joy." I HATED her. Such wilful ignorance and blindness in ignoring that her son, who killed his FATHER, a GOOD MAN, and who also ABUSED him. But nope. Dad was the abusive and mean one. Little Psycho's mother in season 10's "Killerz" too. I could go on and on. But I'm at work right now.

The DELUSIONAL brother and father in "Life Choice", the asshat husband in "Precious" also played the delusional brother in "Life Choice."

All great choices, and I'd also like to add the killer's spoiled twat fiancée in "Causa Mortis" who set the whole thing in motion by getting him to steal a car to drive her mother and only cared about getting the car back, tried to help him get away with it through legal fuckery and only showed remorse when Jack and Claire threatened to get the Feds involved. 

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8 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

It was a good episode though, although since it was the season 8 premiere I would’ve liked a reference to the events of season 7’s finale where Schiff’s wife died, just a line by McCoy asking Schiff how he was doing or something.

4 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

So would I. They really should have had McCoy ask him.


Maybe they were trying to show that time had passed and everyone had moved on a bit? But you both are probably right althogh I really miss the days when this franchise was so worried about becoming too soapy that they didn't include scenes about the characters' personal lives that they probably should have...

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On 7/31/2019 at 12:23 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

I don't know what you mean by "non-main" since this show wasn't serialized, but a procedural. But for me, Jacob Lowenstein ("Indifference")tops the list.

I second that. David Groh did evil characters so well, I could never really see him as Rhoda's nice husband. 😳

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Just watched 2.2 "The Wages of Love":

Quote

A woman claims she suffered from extreme emotional disturbance when she shot her ex-husband and his young lover in bed. 

No doubt the ex-wife did it.
The options are murder in the second degree, [involuntary or "Man 2" ??] manslaughter, or acquittal.
At the proverbial eleventh hour, Stone decides to ask to have manslaughter removed as an option because it would only give her 4 years in prison for 2 murders.
Then, at the eleven-and-a-half hour, while the jury is deliberating, Stone agrees to "Man One" (Voluntary Manslaughter??) for each of the 2 murders, which gives the murderer "just" 9 years in prison (less with parole?) rather than risk acquittal. 

On the way out of the courthouse, Stone overhears 2 jury members telling reporters:

"10 minutes later, it would have been murder. We were voting. The way she used her son made us all furious."

  1. Does this mean they would have convicted, or is it just those 2 jurors speculating?
  2. And what does Stone think?
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1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

Just watched 2.2 "The Wages of Love":

No doubt the ex-wife did it.
The options are murder in the second degree, [involuntary or "Man 2" ??] manslaughter, or acquittal.
At the proverbial eleventh hour, Stone decides to ask to have manslaughter removed as an option because it would only give her 4 years in prison for 2 murders.
Then, at the eleven-and-a-half hour, while the jury is deliberating, Stone agrees to "Man One" (Voluntary Manslaughter??) for each of the 2 murders, which gives the murderer "just" 9 years in prison (less with parole?) rather than risk acquittal. 

On the way out of the courthouse, Stone overhears 2 jury members telling reporters:

"10 minutes later, it would have been murder. We were voting. The way she used her son made us all furious."

  1. Does this mean they would have convicted, or is it just those 2 jurors speculating?
  2. And what does Stone think?

I think it was just 2 jurors speculating and I would imagine Adam has said it and Ben would say it too, Jurors are unpredictable. 

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3 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Just watched 2.2 "The Wages of Love":

No doubt the ex-wife did it.
The options are murder in the second degree, [involuntary or "Man 2" ??] manslaughter, or acquittal.
At the proverbial eleventh hour, Stone decides to ask to have manslaughter removed as an option because it would only give her 4 years in prison for 2 murders.
Then, at the eleven-and-a-half hour, while the jury is deliberating, Stone agrees to "Man One" (Voluntary Manslaughter??) for each of the 2 murders, which gives the murderer "just" 9 years in prison (less with parole?) rather than risk acquittal. 

On the way out of the courthouse, Stone overhears 2 jury members telling reporters:

"10 minutes later, it would have been murder. We were voting. The way she used her son made us all furious."

  1. Does this mean they would have convicted, or is it just those 2 jurors speculating?
  2. And what does Stone think?
2 hours ago, Waterston Fan said:

I think it was just 2 jurors speculating and I would imagine Adam has said it and Ben would say it too, Jurors are unpredictable. 

That's probably it. With juries you just never know. But I am glad the jury was doing the right thing. I hate that episode. The woman wouldn't stop saying she's been married 25 years I hated her and didn't like that everyone seemed to think she was going to get away with it. She killed didn't just kill two people she over killed them. They had been separated for over a year and she used her own son. I had zero sympathy for her.

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Just saw an ad in the digital edition of my local newspaper. Apparently, a bunch of stars will be attending the Williamstown Theater Festival in Massachusetts. Two of them from the franchise: S. Epatha Merkerson (Lt. Van Buren) and Jamey Sheridan (Capt. Deakins, Law & Order: Criminal Intent.)

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On 8/5/2019 at 4:20 PM, andromeda331 said:

That's probably it. With juries you just never know. But I am glad the jury was doing the right thing. I hate that episode. The woman wouldn't stop saying she's been married 25 years I hated her and didn't like that everyone seemed to think she was going to get away with it. She killed didn't just kill two people she over killed them. They had been separated for over a year and she used her own son. I had zero sympathy for her.

I loathed the killer in The Wages of Love as well, she was an incredibly whiny and unlikable as well as being a murderous bitch. She deserved much longer than the sentence she got, I would’ve gone to verdict if I was the lead prosecutor in that case. It was interesting seeing Lennie as defense lawyer Frank Lerhman in that episode. 

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17 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

I loathed the killer in The Wages of Love as well, she was an incredibly whiny and unlikable as well as being a murderous bitch. She deserved much longer than the sentence she got, I would’ve gone to verdict if I was the lead prosecutor in that case. It was interesting seeing Lennie as defense lawyer Frank Lerhman in that episode. 

This episode sounds like its ripped from the Betty Broderick shooting in San Diego when she killed her husband and girlfriend. 

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2 minutes ago, Waterston Fan said:

This episode sounds like its ripped from the Betty Broderick shooting in San Diego when she killed her husband and girlfriend. 

Yes it was based on that case. 

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13 minutes ago, Waterston Fan said:

This episode sounds like its ripped from the Betty Broderick shooting in San Diego when she killed her husband and girlfriend. 

No coincidence. This episode happened about only two years after that crime (which happened in 1989).

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1 hour ago, WendyCR72 said:

Just saw an ad in the digital edition of my local newspaper. Apparently, a bunch of stars will be attending the Williamstown Theater Festival in Massachusetts. Two of them from the franchise: S. Epatha Merkerson (Lt. Van Buren) and Jamey Sheridan (Capt. Deakins, Law & Order: Criminal Intent.)

Lucky! It would be so cool to meet both especial S. Epatha aka Van Buren.

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11 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

Lucky! It would be so cool to meet both especial S. Epatha aka Van Buren.

It's a state away. I am in Upstate NY, but since it is the "tri-state area", we get ads for happenings in MA and VT, as well.  🙂 But it is pretty cool, knowing they will be, at least, in my "neck of the woods", so to speak!

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15 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I loathed the killer in The Wages of Love as well, she was an incredibly whiny and unlikable as well as being a murderous bitch. She deserved much longer than the sentence she got, I would’ve gone to verdict if I was the lead prosecutor in that case. It was interesting seeing Lennie as defense lawyer Frank Lerhman in that episode. 

"I am not a piece of FURNITURE!!"

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1 hour ago, catlover79 said:

"I am not a piece of FURNITURE!!"

^Declared by 2-time Academy Award nominee, Golden Globe Winner (3-time nominee), 3-time Emmy winner (7-time nominee) Shirley Knight.

Maybe if the first wife had career, friends, hobbies, volunteer work, etc., she would not have felt like a piece of furniture.

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