Law & Order Discussion Topic (2019 - 2021)

[Frost]

On 8/12/2020 at 9:42 PM, Xeliou66 said:

I’m unsure exactly when the Jack/Claire relationship began but yeah in hindsight the end of House Counsel does look kind of like an interaction between people having an affair.

Off topic, but is it an affair when neither party is married?  Aren't Jack and Claire both single?  Or is it an affair since they shouldn't have been dating as co-workers and their relationship was probably secretive?   As a regular viewer, I never cottoned on to a relationship between Jack and Claire.  I expected people working together in the stressful and high pressure environment they did would tend to be closer than standard co-workers so I was completely unaware there was anything else going on.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Just now, Frost said:

Off topic, but is it an affair when neither party is married?  Aren't Jack and Claire both single?  Or is it an affair since they shouldn't have been dating as co-workers and their relationship was probably secretive?   As a regular viewer, I never cottoned on to a relationship between Jack and Claire.  I expected people working together in the stressful and high pressure environment they did would tend to be closer than standard co-workers so I was completely unaware there was anything else going on.

It's not off topic, and I also look sideways whenever the word "affair" is used when referencing a sexual relationship between two consenting adults, neither of which are married. Are they afraid of using "lovers" or something?

[shapeshifter]

4 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

6 minutes ago, Frost said:

On 8/12/2020 at 9:42 PM, Xeliou66 said:

I’m unsure exactly when the Jack/Claire relationship began but yeah in hindsight the end of House Counsel does look kind of like an interaction between people having an affair.

Off topic, but is it an affair when neither party is married?  Aren't Jack and Claire both single?  Or is it an affair since they shouldn't have been dating as co-workers and their relationship was probably secretive?   As a regular viewer, I never cottoned on to a relationship between Jack and Claire.  I expected people working together in the stressful and high pressure environment they did would tend to be closer than standard co-workers so I was completely unaware there was anything else going on.

It's not off topic, and I also look sideways whenever the word "affair" is used when referencing a sexual relationship between two consenting adults, neither of which are married. Are they afraid of using "lovers" or something?

In the L&O-verse, the term "affair" is frequently used when a suspect is being questioned --often because it can be a loaded term. 
I know when I post on boards for shows I've watched a lot, I tend to use the same phrases that the characters do --but then I'm also one of those people who can't help speaking with the same accent or colloquialisms as the other person in a conversation. 
Anyway, I'm pretty sure that blond female attorney who had let an innocent man get convicted and who had slept with/had an "affair" with Jack back in the day may have used the word in reference to Jack/Claire. Or maybe Claire used it. Or maybe they just said "slept with," which is kind of silly since they probably didn't do much sleeping together if they were trying to avoid being discovered to be having a sexual relationship.
But I do think "affair" fits when the people involved think they shouldn't be having the relationship. Sort of like self-accusation. Which probably fits Jack/Claire from the little we saw. 

[Xeliou66]

I’m not sure if “affair” is the right word to describe the relationship between Jack/Claire, because neither one was married/in a relationship. And I don’t think it was inappropriate either, I don’t know of any rules prohibiting relationships between prosecutors who work together, so I didn’t really think it was something they had to keep secret, I mean Jack’s prior relationships with his coworkers were open knowledge, Claire knew about them before she even started to work with McCoy, and Schiff knew and seemed to have no issue with it, so I didn’t find anything inappropriate about the relationship and I didn’t think they needed to keep it secret.

I’m glad that the writers didn’t make the Jack/Claire relationship explicit during seasons 5-6 and only revealed they had been lovers after Claire’s death, part of the reason this show was so good is that they always avoided soapy melodrama and focused on the cases instead. Watching those seasons after the reveal that they had been lovers you can see little moments that hinted towards a relationship between them but nothing clear and explicit. 

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I’m glad that the writers didn’t make the Jack/Claire relationship explicit during seasons 5-6 and only revealed they had been lovers after Claire’s death, part of the reason this show was so good is that they always avoided soapy melodrama and focused on the cases instead. Watching those seasons after the reveal that they had been lovers you can see little moments that hinted towards a relationship between them but nothing clear and explicit. 

Yes. I detest the soapy side of things, and also the damsel-in-distress-with-titillation-on-top that was and is still so prevalent, which is often heightened by the female in distress being the love interest of a main male character, which further objectifies her. Even in the old Police Woman show, the title character was almost always going under cover in a situation in which she was scantily clad and likely to wind up tied up and threatened by some thug or lunatic. I think Borgia's final episode was the only L&O plot that came even close to that, and she was not objectified that way, and we did not even see it happening in real time.
So, yes, the mothership L&O stands apart from the crowd that way. 
Other shows I enjoy in reruns also meet that standard, like Cagney & Lacey, although it does spend a lot of time on relationships rather than just the cases, but at least does it realistically, so its not too soapy.

 

Edited September 7, 2020 by shapeshifter

[Door County Cherry]

5 hours ago, Frost said:

Off topic, but is it an affair when neither party is married?

Technically yes, it can still be called an affair...as one of the dictionary terms is an intense romantic relationship.  But it's usually referring to a relationship outside of marriage or one's normal significant other.  So for clarity's sake, I wouldn't call what they had an affair; I'd simply refer to it as "they were in a relationship."  Again, like affair, there are other meanings to "relationships" but everyone sort of understands what "in a relationship" means. 

[wknt3]

On 9/5/2020 at 6:06 PM, SusieQ said:

I think you mean Richard Kline was in Three's Company.I

Richard Kiley wasn't in that show. He was a great stage actor and was in the Broadway production of Man of La Mancha (sang "The Impossible Dream!!!) He also did tv and film but not TC.

 

On 9/5/2020 at 6:23 PM, WendyCR72 said:

Damn. I was thinking Kline and wrote that. Will edit. Thanks!

Happens to all of us eventually. Didn't Jack McCoy once say "There comes a time in everyone's Primetimer career when you have to expect a couple over easy in the kisser."?

[shapeshifter]

7.15 "D-Girl" (1997) just aired on Bounce (followed by part 2, "Turnaround," and part 3, "Showtime").
I enjoy spotting before-they-were-famous actors, and this one is chock full, including pre-Gilmore Girls Lauren Graham and Scott Cohen (Max Medina on GG) as well as a cameo of post-I Spy Robert Culp.

But what I really enjoyed was a line from Lennie to Rey early in the episode.
I know a lot of posters and fans see Rey as a cheater prone to violence and maybe even anti-feminist, but in this episode he is depicted as Father Of The Year, resisting the flirtations of Lauren Graham as well as Lennie's efforts to facilitate a hook-up between Graham's character and Rey, beginning with my favorite Lennie line in the episode before they catch a plane to LA to pursue fleeing persons of interest: 

Quote

Rey, all I know is you're young, unattached,devilishly handsome,and we're going to LA.
If that isn't destiny, what is?

 

Edited September 7, 2020 by shapeshifter

[GHScorpiosRule]

33 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

know a lot of posters and fans see Rey as a cheater prone to violence and maybe even anti-feminist, but in this episode he is depicted as Father Of The Year, resisting the flirtations of Lauren Graham as well as Lennie's efforts to facilitate a hook-up between Graham's character and Rey, beginning with my favorite Lennie line in the episode befo

That’s because he just recently got Debra’s forgiveness after cheating on her with Grad Chickie Jennifer Garner. And promised never to do it again. He probably meant it.

Lennie probably figured, hey he already cheated once; no biggie to do it again. One of the few times I was disappointed in Lennie.

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Lennie probably figured, hey he already cheated once; no biggie to do it again. One of the few times I was disappointed in Lennie.

There was a line from Rey to Lauren Graham's flirtatious character, "Actually, I've been separated for three months," and in the following episode Lennie and Rey talk about what being separated means --if that makes you any less disappointed in Lennie.

[GHScorpiosRule]

48 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

There was a line from Rey to Lauren Graham's flirtatious character, "Actually, I've been separated for three months," and in the following episode Lennie and Rey talk about what being separated means --if that makes you any less disappointed in Lennie.

Nope, it doesn’t because Lennie knew that despite the separation, Curtis wanted to repair his marriage and move back home.

[blondiec0332]

On 9/7/2020 at 1:36 AM, Door County Cherry said:

Technically yes, it can still be called an affair...as one of the dictionary terms is an intense romantic relationship.  But it's usually referring to a relationship outside of marriage or one's normal significant other.  So for clarity's sake, I wouldn't call what they had an affair; I'd simply refer to it as "they were in a relationship."  Again, like affair, there are other meanings to "relationships" but everyone sort of understands what "in a relationship" means. 

But were Jack and Clair really "in a relationhip"? Or were they friends (co workers) with benefits.

[Xeliou66]

6 hours ago, blondiec0332 said:

But were Jack and Clair really "in a relationhip"? Or were they friends (co workers) with benefits.

We don’t know really. All we know is that they were lovers at some point. I’m glad the show kept it very vague with regards to that, in contrast to how most shows shove relationships between characters down our throats and have an endless supply of melodrama surrounding it, L&O did the opposite, they gave us almost no details about the characters personal lives, and the show was much better for it. We don’t know anything about the Jack/Claire relationship except for the fact that they were lovers at one point. 

Edited September 8, 2020 by Xeliou66

[catlover79]

Are there any episodes in the L&O franchise that are too painful for you to watch again? Due to my own personal experiences, I can't watch "Out of Control" and "Helpless" again. I very nearly threw up during SVU's "True Believers". That one was beyond chilling.

[Door County Cherry]

11 hours ago, blondiec0332 said:

But were Jack and Clair really "in a relationhip"? Or were they friends (co workers) with benefits.

They never full out said how involved they were and so we can only guess based on what we know and think about what their characters would do.

I think it was probably a full on relationship.  From what we know of Jack's previous relationships with ADAs, they were full fledged relationships.  We also know how he reacted when he went after a drunk driver the season after Claire died.  We know Claire had an affair with a judge she worked for that ended up quite messy and she seemed pretty against having a relationship with Jack when she first met him. 

So knowing those things, I don't think either would take on the risks just for casual sex. 

2 hours ago, catlover79 said:

Are there any episodes in the L&O franchise that are too painful for you to watch again? Due to my own personal experiences, I can't watch "Out of Control" and "Helpless" again. I very nearly threw up during SVU's "True Believers". That one was beyond chilling.

Not painful in the way you mean painful but painful in the "this is not fun to watch" way would be things like Aftershock or any episode that focuses so much on the personal angst of the characters.  So there are episodes of season 6 I have no use for. 

[catlover79]

49 minutes ago, Door County Cherry said:

They never full out said how involved they were and so we can only guess based on what we know and think about what their characters would do.

I think it was probably a full on relationship.  From what we know of Jack's previous relationships with ADAs, they were full fledged relationships.  We also know how he reacted when he went after a drunk driver the season after Claire died.  We know Claire had an affair with a judge she worked for that ended up quite messy and she seemed pretty against having a relationship with Jack when she first met him. 

So knowing those things, I don't think either would take on the risks just for casual sex. 

Not painful in the way you mean painful but painful in the "this is not fun to watch" way would be things like Aftershock or any episode that focuses so much on the personal angst of the characters.  So there are episodes of season 6 I have no use for. 

As well-written and well-acted as episodes like "Sanctuary" and "Conspiracy" are, they are also painful to watch in light of the racial unrest happening now in the US. Still, they hold up 25+ years later (sadly, because so little has changed since then).

Edited September 9, 2020 by catlover79

[Xeliou66]

About episodes I cannot watch - as I’ve said before I hate Aftershock because it was the opposite of everything L&O was about, it was nothing but a melodramatic soap fest with everyone OOC. 

The other one that comes to mind is Dignity from season 20 - I boil with rage everytime I watch that piece of shit episode. It felt like an anti abortion propaganda piece, and it was despicable that they based the victim on Dr George Tiller who was murdered in a church just like the doctor in Dignity and yet they revealed the victim had killed a baby that was accidentally born alive, something which the real Dr Tiller never did. Disgraceful. Also Bernard’s appalling comments about how rape victims giving birth wasn’t a bad thing, which Lupo didn’t call him on, and then the stupid reveal that Bernard’s mother had tried to have a miscarriage which was done just to shut the conversation down and made no sense, I’m pretty sure Bernard was born after abortion became legal so why didn’t his mom just have an abortion, and who raised Bernard? Also they let the woman who chose not to have an abortion testify despite her testimony having NO RELEVANCE to the case, it was just emotional manipulation that implied that giving birth to a terminally ill baby that died the day after it was born was somehow better for everyone than having an abortion, sickening. They labeled the abortion doctor who testified for the prosecution a “fanatic” although all he did was give his opinion, he hadn’t killed anyone, unlike the nutjob defendant. No good pro choice arguments were made, and the pro choice characters (Van Buren, Lupo, McCoy, Rubirosa) were silenced, everyone felt somewhat OOC, and I could go on and on about how angry this pile of steaming dog shit episode makes me, a black mark on the otherwise great final season.

Also I hate Monster from season 8, everyone was OOC and behaved unethically with how they coerced a confession from the innocent guy who had been beaten, it seemed like they didn’t care about guilt or innocence, they just wanted to lock someone up. I found myself wondering “who the fuck are these people and what’s happened to the regular characters”. That episode just makes me cringe, and although Feldman was an ass, he was right in saying the falsely accused guy should sue, and I hope he did. 

There are some episode that I found the writing to be subpar in and don’t care for or found someone to be OOC or annoying, and some episodes where I find the endings incredibly anger inducing when a perp gets off, but the episodes I mentioned are the only ones I can barely stomach to watch. 

[shapeshifter]

The "Is it because I'm a lesbian?" episode (15.13, "Ain't No Love") aired today on ION. 
Forgetting about that unforgettable, unforgivable line for a moment--
Arthur Branch says he's firing Serena Southerlyn because she she's "passionate" rather than "cold" and that she should therefore work for the defense rather than the prosecution. Does Arthur think they should have prosecuted the innocent rapper just because they could? Or is he mad at Serena for being right when he was wrong? I don't get it.

[Xeliou66]

58 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

The "Is it because I'm a lesbian?" episode (15.13, "Ain't No Love") aired today on ION. 
Forgetting about that unforgettable, unforgivable line for a moment--
Arthur Branch says he's firing Serena Southerlyn because she she's "passionate" rather than "cold" and that she should therefore work for the defense rather than the prosecution. Does Arthur think they should have prosecuted the innocent rapper just because they could? Or is he mad at Serena for being right when he was wrong? I don't get it.

Serena had a habit of being soft and of sympathizing with the defense, it wasn’t just in that episode, it was in many episodes. Her mentality was more similar to a defense attorney than to a prosecutor. I get why he fired her, because she was simply too soft and sympathetic towards defendants. Also, her and Branch never liked each other, they were constantly at odds due to their drastically different worldviews, and Serena seemed unhappy working at the DA’s office. 

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Serena had a habit of being soft and of sympathizing with the defense, it wasn’t just in that episode, it was in many episodes. Her mentality was more similar to a defense attorney than to a prosecutor. I get why he fired her, because she was simply too soft and sympathetic towards defendants. Also, her and Branch never liked each other, they were constantly at odds due to their drastically different worldviews, and Serena seemed unhappy working at the DA’s office. 

That all fits.
It just seemed odd that Branch and McCoy weren’t at least glad to not be prosecuting the innocent rapper for murder (thanks to Serena’s persistence). The plot made them look like they didn’t really care about truth and justice as much as having not figured it out for themselves. 
Maybe the terrible “Is it because I’m a lesbian?” line was supposed to clarify that in some way. Also Branch saying McCoy didn’t want to fire her. 
And would Serena be the first ADA who Jack did not sleep with? 
Heh. Maybe Branch was just glad to finally be able to fire one without having to worry about a sexual harassment lawsuit. Kidding. Sort of. 

[Xeliou66]

12 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

That all fits.
It just seemed odd that Branch and McCoy weren’t at least glad to not be prosecuting the innocent rapper for murder (thanks to Serena’s persistence). The plot made them look like they didn’t really care about truth and justice as much as having not figured it out for themselves. 
Maybe the terrible “Is it because I’m a lesbian?” line was supposed to clarify that in some way. Also Branch saying McCoy didn’t want to fire her. 
And would Serena be the first ADA who Jack did not sleep with? 
Heh. Maybe Branch was just glad to finally be able to fire one without having to worry about a sexual harassment lawsuit. Kidding. Sort of. 

The rapper did himself no favors by staying silent the whole time, and he was there at the time of the murder,  and I understood Arthur’s frustration that the Caldwell murder would go down without a conviction, while Serena didn’t seem to give a fuck. 

About the lesbian line, yeah it was beyond weird especially with how it was delivered, but there were hints, Serena was always extremely sympathetic regarding gay issues, I saw Married With Children tonight where the lesbian couple had adopted a child but then split up and the one mom couldn’t see the daughter and wound up killing her ex in an argument, and Serena was very sympathetic to the defendant and clashed with Arthur again about the case. So there were hints. 

Jack didn’t sleep with any ADA’s after Claire, at least not that we know of. 

[Broderbits]

17 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Jack didn’t sleep with any ADA’s after Claire, at least not that we know of. 

Ha! The mere thought of Jack sleeping with Abby Carmichael is enough to make my head explode!

[ML89]

On 9/8/2020 at 8:17 PM, catlover79 said:

Are there any episodes in the L&O franchise that are too painful for you to watch again?

I saw the one Logan departs in once and haven't watched it again. I haven't watched the one where Phil gets shot again or where Borgia is murdered again either. Just from a "this episode is awful" standpoint, there are whole swathes of the Serena years I don't want to watch again.

[Xeliou66]

14 hours ago, ML89 said:

I saw the one Logan departs in once and haven't watched it again. I haven't watched the one where Phil gets shot again or where Borgia is murdered again either. Just from a "this episode is awful" standpoint, there are whole swathes of the Serena years I don't want to watch again.

The episode where Cerreta gets shot, Prince of Darkness, is one of my favorites, a lot of great twists and an enjoyable plot from start to finish with arguably the most chilling ending in L&O history. 

I liked Pride, Logan’s final episode, all right but I didn’t like how rushed Logan’s exit was, I really wish they had given him a final scene with Briscoe and Van Buren. 

The episode where Borgia was killed, Invaders, was one of the better episodes from seasons 15-17 IMO.

As for episodes I hate I talked about them above, the 3 that immediately come to mind are Aftershock, Dignity and Monster. 

[txhorns79]

On 9/9/2020 at 10:49 PM, Broderbits said:

Ha! The mere thought of Jack sleeping with Abby Carmichael is enough to make my head explode!

She'd be on top, making him eat salad with light dressing while she chowed down on ribs.   

[Xeliou66]

I saw Hands Free today and this episode is one where I love the first half but don’t care for the second half - the investigation part was terrific with Briscoe and Green trying to ID the victim and then track down the suspect was great, there were some memorable witnesses such as the fruit stand guy and the building super, and the investigation was quite intriguing and of course when the “girlfriends” wig comes off revealing her as a man that was very memorable. The first trial for the murder and dismemberment of the neighbor/boyfriend was good, but after that the episode sort of went off the rails - I didn’t see how they could try Eli Madison for his wife’s murder with the only new evidence being that he might’ve killed his alibi witness, there was nothing new on the wife’s case and I found it hard to believe a judge would let in so much testimony about the possible killing of the witness when he wasn’t on trial for that. It seems to me like they should’ve had Madison sent to New Mexico to stand trial for killing the witness, that was the stronger case as they had his DNA under his fingernails and the eyewitness, so why didn’t they just do that? That wouldn’t have been in Manhattan’s jurisdiction though so it wouldn’t be the main characters prosecuting him so that’s why they didn’t just do that. And I found it hard to believe that the DA’s didn’t know Madison had been married before and hadn’t talked to his first ex wife, wouldn’t they have done a complete background on him before the first trial? So there were a lot of holes and stuff I found hard to swallow in the second half. This episode immediately comes to mind as one where I loved part of it but didn’t care for part of it.

[wknt3]

On 9/9/2020 at 10:49 PM, Broderbits said:

Ha! The mere thought of Jack sleeping with Abby Carmichael is enough to make my head explode!

 

On 9/14/2020 at 1:34 PM, txhorns79 said:

She'd be on top, making him eat salad with light dressing while she chowed down on ribs.   

The fun part for these guys is the struggle after they've been tied up ... or so I've heard.

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, wknt3 said:

 

The fun part for these guys is the struggle after they've been tied up ... or so I've heard.

That’s a line from ME Rodgers isn’t it? I’m having a hard time placing what episode it was though.

[Chyromaniac]

On 8/28/2020 at 11:37 PM, WendyCR72 said:

Like MTV is no longer about music, I have heard that BBC America has not aired British programming in forever. Still, this seems sort of random!

For what it’s worth, bbca, we, and Sundance are all owned (or co-owned) by AMC Networks, which is presumably why they don’t mind cross-promoting this show.  Bbca does air some actual British shows too* - but not anything like when it first started.  However, since 90% of my current tv viewing is l&o and Star Trek reruns, it is my channel of choice.

On 9/8/2020 at 7:17 PM, catlover79 said:

Are there any episodes in the L&O franchise that are too painful for you to watch again?

I don’t know if I have been as mad at any l&o verdict as I was for Nullification.  Part of it is that it’s one of Jack’s most passionate closings- “They took his life!” is actually the line that I hear in my head when I think about him as a character.  And the jury let those bastards off.  It’s also the moment I developed an irrational hatred for Denis O’Hare.  So yeah, not an episode I care to watch.
 

*Recent British programming on bbca includes new Top Gear, along with countless nature series.  They also aired the world darts championships, which I assume was from England.  And they certainly get doctor who and Graham Norton when there’s new episodes.

[wknt3]

11 hours ago, wknt3 said:

 

The fun part for these guys is the struggle after they've been tied up ... or so I've heard.

 

9 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

That’s a line from ME Rodgers isn’t it? I’m having a hard time placing what episode it was though.

It is. From "Bounty". A great episode for Rodgers fans - it comes pretty soon after her telling Briscoe that the good news is he died quickly and after he asks her about the bad news she replies that her cable's on the fritz and there is some good back and forth with Briscoe about chili dogs as fine dining.

[Xeliou66]

4 hours ago, wknt3 said:

 

It is. From "Bounty". A great episode for Rodgers fans - it comes pretty soon after her telling Briscoe that the good news is he died quickly and after he asks her about the bad news she replies that her cable's on the fritz and there is some good back and forth with Briscoe about chili dogs as fine dining.

That’s right I remember it now. I love ME Rodgers - she had some awesome one liners and some great back and forth with the detectives. Her scenes were always entertaining. 

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, Xeliou66 said:

That’s right I remember it now. I love ME Rodgers - she had some awesome one liners and some great back and forth with the detectives. Her scenes were always entertaining. 

Too bad there wasn't something like "Law and Order: ME" starring Leslie Hendrix as Dr. Elizabeth Rodgers. 

[wknt3]

7 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

That’s right I remember it now. I love ME Rodgers - she had some awesome one liners and some great back and forth with the detectives. Her scenes were always entertaining. 

 

6 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Too bad there wasn't something like "Law and Order: ME" starring Leslie Hendrix as Dr. Elizabeth Rodgers. 

Hmmmmm. Maybe you should put a pitch together for Peacock? You could have Rodgers along with the other beloved recurring doctors - Olivet and Skoda. Law & Order: Criminal Minds & Bodies coming 2021.... I've said before it's too bad that the mothership never did any sort of webisode experiment like NBC did with some of their comedies since they had some great recurring characters who could have carried a story on their own. Rodgers was practically a regular in the latter seasons of Criminal Intent so at least there's that.

[Broderbits]

2 hours ago, wknt3 said:

Hmmmmm. Maybe you should put a pitch together for Peacock? You could have Rodgers along with the other beloved recurring doctors - Olivet and Skoda

Add in Dr. Warner from SVU  - she had some pretty good lines too, as I recall.

[Xeliou66]

3 hours ago, Broderbits said:

Add in Dr. Warner from SVU  - she had some pretty good lines too, as I recall.

Yeah I like Warner as well but Rodgers will always be my favorite ME, she had a lot of charisma that made her scenes always entertaining. Just like Skoda is my favorite psych expert - he had a lot of charisma and was always compelling. I like Olivet and Huang from SVU but Skoda will always be the best. Skoda and Rodgers are by far my 2 favorite recurring characters.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

On 8/29/2020 at 3:24 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

What is really odd is that ”Savages” took place maybe in early Fall? But by the time the sentencing phase ended, with the jury voting for death, it was February.

In fairness, they did this quite a bit. Once the trial started, weeks or months would go by off screen to encompass all the testimony they don't show, etc. I can't think of episode titles right now, because it was a long week today, but there were a lot.

[WendyCR72]

7 hours ago, wknt3 said:

Rodgers was practically a regular in the latter seasons of Criminal Intent so at least there's that.

Yep, even with a quasi-romantic relationship. Too bad Danny Ross wasn't worth it. (IMO!)

[shapeshifter]

8.2 "Grief" just re-aired on Bounce, in which:

Quote

After a comatose woman dies during childbirth, McCoy pursues murder charges against the health-care worker who impregnated her, but the investigation reveals that the victim's mother may have played a role in the incident.

and:

Quote

Detectives Briscoe and Curtis investigate the severe beating of George Harding, who is found under a bridge in Riverside Park. This is the second beating for Harding in less than a week, but he refuses to cooperate with the investigation. Harding works as an attendant at a psychiatric hospital and when patient Leslie Russo told her brothers Joe and Frank Russo that he had raped her, they administered the beatings. The hospital says they conducted a thorough investigation and found no evidence that Leslie had been raped, let alone by Harding. When they learn there was a rape investigation at another hospital where Harding worked, they find that Wendy Singer, a comatose patient, is several months pregnant. They are now certain they can get a conviction against Harding, but when ADA Jamie Ross catches Wendy's mother in several lies, she realizes that much more is going on

At the end of the episode, with both the rapist and the mother being prosecuted, Jamie shares with Jack that the rapist's parents are petitioning for custody of the baby. 

Does anyone recall any discussions about the likely outcome of this last bit? 

[GHScorpiosRule]

10 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Does anyone recall any discussions about the likely outcome of this last bit? 

The show never revisited the case, and viewers were just left with being told that the rapist's parents were suing for custody.

[shapeshifter]

10 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

The show never revisited the case, and viewers were just left with being told that the rapist's parents were suing for custody.

Sorry, I meant to ask if anyone recalls any viewer discussions on FanForum or other boards or blogs or even around the water cooler back in 1998.
It seemed like it would have generated talk if it aired today, and I wondered if it did back then.

BTW, Marin Hinkle was great as the schizophrenic sister. 

[Xeliou66]

All they said at the end of Grief was that Harding’s parents were petitioning for custody, it was unclear who the child would go to. I’m not sure who should get the child, it was a difficult case. I will say this - I thought that the comatose woman’s mother was more responsible than Harding for the situation, she was the one who wanted Harding to impregnate her daughter and paid him to do so, Harding didn’t want to do it seemed like, he still shouldn’t have done it but the mom was the mastermind. The mom seemed like she had a screw loose, I mean who in their right mind would pay someone to have sex with their comatose daughter? I think Harding’s parents might’ve been the better choice to care for the child than the woman’s parents, given that the mom was going to prison. 

Edited September 17, 2020 by Xeliou66

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

All they said at the end of Grief was that Harding’s parents were petitioning for custody, it was unclear who the child would go to. I’m not sure who should get the child, it was a difficult case. I will say this - I thought that the comatose woman’s mother was more responsible than Harding for the situation, she was the one who wanted Harding to impregnate her daughter and paid him to do so, Harding didn’t want to it seemed like, he still shouldn’t have done it but the mom was the mastermind. The mom seemed like she had a screw loose, I mean who in their right mind would pay someone to have sex with their comatose daughter? I think Harding’s parents might’ve been the better choice to care for the child than the woman’s parents, given that the mom was going to prison. 

Good points.

[txhorns79]

18 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Yep, even with a quasi-romantic relationship. Too bad Danny Ross wasn't worth it. (IMO!)

I thought they had an actual relationship, no?  I vaguely recall her being devastated when they killed him off.

[WendyCR72]

3 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

I thought they had an actual relationship, no?  I vaguely recall her being devastated when they killed him off.

Maybe? It seemed so...ambiguous, to me. Although Goren did once ask Ross if his "girlfriend" blabbed Goren's paternal secret in "Frame", so I guess. But like I said, with the plot in "Betrayed" with Ross panting over another former flame, the show never seemed truly invested one way or another.

[Xeliou66]

Yeah they kept it ambiguous as to what the Rodgers/Ross relationship was and I’m glad of it, anyone who’s read my posts on the CI board knows that I hate Ross the Douche, and I hated how they implied him and Rodgers dated/had a relationship. Ross was an insufferable pompous ass while Rodgers was awesome. 

I did like how CI revealed that Rodgers and Briscoe had gone to the opera together, Briscoe and Rodgers always had nice chemistry, they were both awesome characters with great one liners and they had some great scenes together, so I liked that on CI Rodgers mentioned going to the opera with Lennie. It was nice continuity between the shows as well, since CI didn’t often reference the other shows.

[Broderbits]

I don't think the Ross/Rodgers relationship was ambiguous; besides Goren's "your girlfriend" comment, there was a scene of them together in an elevator all dressed up like they were going on a date, and many "knowing looks" passed between them.

That line of Rodgers about Lennie taking her to the opera ended with her saying "it was the best night of my life". Ross wasn't fit to shine Lennie Briscoe's shoes.

[laredhead]

Hoping someone on this forum can help with my question about the L&O episode "Cry Wolf".  I fell asleep during the last 10 minutes only to wake up and see the mobster taking the blame for his mistress's murder, when in reality his son killed her.  What son?  I can't find an actor listed as Michael Ruffino, Jr. as Jack calls him in the last minute of the show when he realizes what the father had done to save his son.  Unfortunately, I hit the erase button on the DVR accidently instead of the rewind button.  Should not watch TV when I'm that tired.     

[Xeliou66]

4 hours ago, laredhead said:

Hoping someone on this forum can help with my question about the L&O episode "Cry Wolf".  I fell asleep during the last 10 minutes only to wake up and see the mobster taking the blame for his mistress's murder, when in reality his son killed her.  What son?  I can't find an actor listed as Michael Ruffino, Jr. as Jack calls him in the last minute of the show when he realizes what the father had done to save his son.  Unfortunately, I hit the erase button on the DVR accidently instead of the rewind button.  Should not watch TV when I'm that tired.     

It’s been a while since I’ve seen Cry Wolf, and it was a complex episode, but I don’t think we ever saw the son who actually committed the murder, that’s why there’s no actor listed as playing him. He was out of town I believe the whole time and since his father took the blame for him we never actually saw him. 

[WendyCR72]

For those that may have Peacock to stream Law & Order (or anything else!) and a Roku, a deal has been reached. You can now add Peacock via the Roku Channel Store to your Home screen.

[shapeshifter]

8.21 “Bad Girl” aired today, in which:

Quote

The pursuit of the death penalty for a police officer's killer who found religion in prison becomes a political football for the DA's office, and Briscoe's daughter gets in trouble with the law.

This time I noticed that when the detectives first question the Bad Girl* that the scene is shot so that the sunlight keeps shining on the cross she’s wearing —which the detectives don’t ever ask her about even though the murder victim’s spouse said her cross was missing. He mentions the missing cross several times before the detectives meet up with the Bad Girl, and yet they are never shown even asking for a description. Later the detectives find the missing cross (a different cross, right??) at the apartment of the Bad Girl’s abusive father, where he yanks it off of his girlfriend. 
I guess all these crucifixes were just symbolic foreshadowing for her otherwise out-of-the-blue conversion to Christianity, complete with total repentance and a personality transplant. 
 

———————

*”Bad Girl” (Monica Johnson) is played by Isabel Gillies, whose last role before giving up acting for writing was Eliot Stabler’s wife on L&O: SVU. 

Edited September 22, 2020 by shapeshifter