Last Man Standing - General Discussion

[readster]

I'll admit I'm not an expert, but what I found online is that graduates of West Point are typically commissioned as second lieutenants, which is the same as ROTC. I imagine West Point's prestige factors in to future advancement, but I just didn't understand Eve thinking it was the only route. I do understand devastation because it was her dream, but I'll be highly disappointed if they don't go the ROTC route.

I agree, if all of a sudden Eve just flat out doesn't want anything military again because she didn't get into West Point. Then its been a waste of almost three years of character basis. Many critics agree that moving Eve from a mean spirit aunt she was in seasons 2-3 to being more of mini Mike was better for her character. As pointed out, West Point would have had more pay off for Eve in the long run, but ROTC will still get her there. Not to mention, she can still enlist, nothing stopping her there. I just hope the writers don't go with how they have with Kristin and Mandy. Dreams of college and all of a sudden: Kristin wants to be a resturant owner, Mandy rather run her business out of her parent's basement. What next? Eve decides to just run the hunting department at Outdoor Man? Even Vanessa has a better career as a teacher than her leaving her energy job because her son-in-law is a moron. 

[readster]

I don't know to feel about this episode. One, I liked that they continued with Eve being confused after not getting into West Point. She's 18, and her dream was crushed, so of course she is going to look for something to latch onto. Mike and Vanessa were acting like normal parents too, they want to help Eve, but know she needs some space. To then say she wants to take a year off, I can believe too. Some parents have no problem and many feel that if they don't keep going, they are going to become a lazy slug (my father-in-law's philosophy). Now, with Mandy and Kristin, I think that was just bad. They were acting like they have been astrange for years and where was Boyd in all of this? A simple passing of: "He's at a sleep over." Would have worked. Another thing with Kristin and Mandy not knowing Ryan was a comic guy. Hello, you don't have an original copy of Dark Knight Returns, talk about love of the books if he just started just before they were married. Kristin would have known he was a comic book fan and despite all of Ryan's dumbass ideas and views. Him being a fan of comic books made sense. Same for Kyle. Also, Kristin in her pjs at 8 pm and looking like crap with no one at home. Ok, my wife and I are in our late 30s. When our son is staying the night somewhere. We relax and watch a movie, but not to the point where I think its late for 8 pm. Maybe 10, but not 8. 

  Jay Leno was funny, but his parts with Mike and him seem forced, we get it, they were making fun of each other's careers, but that was over load. 

[CaptainCranky]

I watched all of season one and then lost interest. I started watching the reruns on Hallmark and from what I saw in season two and what I've read on this thread I'm saving a lot of time by not watching anymore.

[ae2]

I watched all of season one and then lost interest. I started watching the reruns on Hallmark and from what I saw in season two and what I've read on this thread I'm saving a lot of time by not watching anymore.

It took a notable downward turn after S1, but this season has (finally!) started fixing some of those issues. Less focus on Mike vs. Ryan political views. Less Ryan all around, and when he's on screen he's toned down a bit. Less Boyd. 

 

Still isn't a great show, but if you were looking to kill a half hour on a boring Friday night it has improved a bit.

[CaptainCranky]

It took a notable downward turn after S1, but this season has (finally!) started fixing some of those issues. Less focus on Mike vs. Ryan political views. Less Ryan all around, and when he's on screen he's toned down a bit. Less Boyd. 

 

Still isn't a great show, but if you were looking to kill a half hour on a boring Friday night it has improved a bit.

I have no use for the Ryan character in the story line and less use for the second Kristin.

 

The Kyle character is a waste of time as no one is that naive or spine less.

 

Love the Mandy character but her and Kyle for more than five minutes, I don't think so.

 

Still like Vanessa but I haven't seen her transformation though.

 

Like Eve.

 

Like Ed.

 

Like Mike when he's not doing the stupid political stuff.

[readster]

 

The Kyle character is a waste of time as no one is that naive or spine less.

The problem is, the writers have done what other sitcom writer have done and turned up his character traits to the extreme. Same goes for everyone on the show right now. I mean, you can say one "black person" reference to Chuck and he blows it out of proportion like he was called the n word. Kyle's problem is they have made him a doormat for everyone, and him standing up to Ed at the end of last season seemed to finally show that Kyle was tried of being treated like that. Yet, Mike and Ed find ways to put him down or make him do all the work when they know if Kyle was fired most of Outdoor Man would fall apart work staff wise. Yet, he's never promoted, he has no major ambitions and he's basically become Alan from Two and a Half Men without the mooching. Which is very off putting of the character. I would be happy with Kyle would find his spine again and go to Mike and Ed and say: "So, why do you pay me so little, put me down when you know I do a great job here and why have I not been promoted in the last five years?" Having him listen to Ryan's stupid ideas about atheism or forgetting to tie his shoes some days isn't funny, its beyond ridiculous. 

[readster]

That was a very good episode. No political jokes, classic confusion and I was very happy with Kyle and Mandy's engagement. Plus, no Kristin, Ryan or Boyd. I do like that Kyle finally admitted he has played it safe. That's why he hasn't tried to seek higher management with Outdoor Man or a higher degree. Let's face it, how many people have done that. They find a good niche, have basically no debt, do a job they love, have a great social and personal life. Why do you want to rock what's safe? Let's see if we actually see Mandy and Kyle's wedding instead of it happening off screen like with Kristin and Boyd and I don't want Kyle's father to just magically appear wanting to reconnect to Kyle because he's getting married. Just leave it that his mom died when he was a teen. His dad couldn't handle it and he went to work for Outdoor Man after high school. 

[Pdxblonde]

I hope Mandy makes some bank with her fashion designs, cause there is NO way Kyle can keep Mandy in the lifestyle she is accustomed to. She's extremely materialistic and I can't see her moving into Kyle's little apartment.

[readster]

I hope Mandy makes some bank with her fashion designs, cause there is NO way Kyle can keep Mandy in the lifestyle she is accustomed to. She's extremely materialistic and I can't see her moving into Kyle's little apartment.

After Kyle's speech and Mandy's talk. I hope this will lead to either Kyle getting promoted, he be great as a sales manager instead of floor sales or Mandy gets her designs bought out. Be a good way to start them on their way. Its funny, despite the writers dropping Kristin wanting to be a doctor or Ryan having any ambitions to get a better job. I'm surprised that the subject them of having another kid hasn't come up. I hate to say it, but they are a lot more stable now and older and Kristin seems to be very focused on using the Out Door Man restaurant chains as her career now. Even just brought up for them to go: "We got the kid we wanted, and no reason to do it again because now we are married." 

[readster]

Not a bad episode, and I do like that Eve is actually looking into other things that aren't military related. She has been established as being able to sing and play music for a while now. I'm happy they have touched on this, but really, no one has said: "You can still enlist or do ROTC." They are putting it to Eve that her life is over since she didn't get into Westpoint. No one has also brought up: "You still have a few months of high school let, enjoy it." or "Do you really think you are the only one who hasn't gone through rejection before for their dream school?" I had no problem with the house plot with Kristin, because at this point it makes sense. Even deciding to drop Kristin wants to be a doctor and now a restaurant chain owner for her father's business. She has the money now and is stable and Ryan is actually working steady too. Why not?

Edited February 8, 2016 by readster

[ae2]

Not a bad episode, and I do like that Eve is actually looking into other things that aren't military related. She has been established as being able to sing and play music for a while now. I'm happy they have touched on this, but really, no one has said: "You can still enlist or do ROTC." They are putting it to Eve that her life is over since she didn't get into Westpoint. 

 

I usually shrug stuff like this off, since a lot of their lives happen "off screen." But I've been hoping for an episode about the possibility of Eve enlisting and the ensuing debate of the value of enlisted personnel versus officers. Seems the sort of debate this show would jump at the chance to include and one I might actually enjoy seeing. 

[readster]

Hey, Harry the Hardware guy owns a club now. Always enjoy seeing former HI cast members on LMS. I actually enjoyed this episode, but once again, Ryan over reacts to everything. Especially when Kyle made the comment about his friend and Ryan thought it was Jesus. The main problem with Ryan, his atheism is because his mom was apparently religions, yet she divorced his father after almost 20 years of marriage and doesn't even try to know her only grandchild. Yeah, it is so old and its what the writers think that a hippy type like Ryan is in real life. When it couldn't be farther from the truth. I do agree, Boyd needed to not pull that crap with his aunt and future uncle. Of course, I hate the kid that plays Boyd.

[readster]

Even with episodes that have Helen Potts, Mike comes across as a moron at times. "Oh sell off everything and move on." "Wait! He had a rare tank collection?" "I must save it so Helen and the boys can remember the good times with their father." I had no problem with Kristin and Eve's plot, but it felt like they had to have a B plot that really wasn't needed. Yes, Eve needs to be seen as an adult now, but at the same time, this was falling back to Eve: "I hate being treated like the little sister" troupe that they finally were dropping since she didn't get into West Point. At least that has been handled pretty well of Eve trying to figure out what to do with her life. Even though as they need to point out: "She can still go into the army!" 

[NJ RadioGuy]

Nice shoutout to LMS on the "DC Legends of Tomorrow" episode "Marooned." The captain of the Acheron, the flagship of the time fleet, was named...Eve Baxter!

(Or maybe LMS' Eve was a shoutout to a comic book character? Dunno; not a comic fan).

[readster]

That could go either way. I know that the actress is a DC Comics fan. Last week's episode, I am happy they finally put Vanessa noticing how Mike seems to just want everything to himself because he feels he doesn't have an identity outside of work. However, I think the writers really go this: "Mike is going Old Man type" off the rails to the point they wanted to just sweep it under the rug and move on. While season 5 has been such a step up from the previous seasons, its like they writing these plots and have an idea of the story, but then write themselves in a corner. Its like with Eve right now, they have been exploring what she wants to do since she didn't get into Westpoint and is graduating. Of course they don't want to bring up the fact that she could still inlist in the army, but then they would have to address it and they don't want to. Same with Kyle, explaining why he has been a top notch worker, even winning Employee of the Month for years, but why he hasn't been promoted because he chose to play it safe. However, you think Ed or Mike would offer him a promotion and yet they have Mike constantly say its his own fault when he can offer him a promotion. 

  Same goes with Mandy, oh she wants to be a fashion designer, yet she can't get out of the basement or finish up college. Same with Kristin, all the talk with being a doctor, then she was anti-vaccine and then she sees being in the restaurant business is her real dream. Same with Ryan, constantly talking about him wanting to make things better or have things his way. Yet he doesn't go get a damn job or goes back to school to make it better and all they do with Boyd is make him a brat and see the actor can't pull anything off on the show. If they really are writing themselves into constant corners, its either time to move on or they need new writers. The episodes are funny, but the stories fizzle out because they can't give them a satisfying conclusion, they just end all of a sudden or off screen. Like Ryan's dad dying, he appears out of nowhere and now he's dead. Their wedding happened over the summer, but we never saw it. Eve has all these friends and stuff, but we never see her hanging out or doing stuff until the last few episodes with them. Chuck talks about being put in the "black man" role, but yet he puts himself there and always makes a bad reference. Now Mike says he makes more money than Vanessa, oh shut up! Its 2016, not 1984. 

[readster]

Ok, here is the thing writers, when a person does not hear or see from a person they had a very brief relationship with, as Reba said, she can get the hint. Its not funny and you paint Vanessa, Mike and Ed as complete morons, that isn't funny either. You could have had just done with with Mike and her had had a previous relationship and they both ended up with good people. Not just manufactured drama for the sake of comedy, you've been on the air for 5 years, those episodes are always the most stupid and have the least amount of ratings and you use people like Reba to pull off ratings. Just don't, that was just not a good episode, I laughed, but that was because Tim Allen and Reba work well off of each other. However, the story and the way everyone was acting was just too stupid to work. 

[Skyfall]

Can anyone explain the ending of the episode of tonight? Seemed random.

[readster]

Basically, Vanessa realized her daughter's loved her and she has to realize that she has to let them go. She doesn't need to be on top of their lives like they were when they were little. Ed realizes he can't do awesome romantic stuff. Kyle is the only way that Ryan is ever going to think of things and Boyd is still a waste of time. 

  In other news, they are rewriting Ryan's history yet again to make the stories work. He doesn't know how to camp? He was mountain climbing and back packing through South America when he originally ran out on Boyd and Kristin. That has been talked about constantly, also how he picked up knitting, started to be "one with the Earth" because he saw these poor countries. However, now we are also to believe that his father had a major gambling problem, when he was apparently a good business company man and why they moved to Colorado from Canada originally? He was oblivious to how hard it can be outside? Umm... what? Just last year during his father's magical appearance, and then dying after the wedding (which we never saw) he doesn't understand any of out in the wilderness? Umm... huh? He was catching fish and talking about hiking nature trails. Do these writers not watch their own show? Does Masterson not tell the writers: "Wait, that isn't want I did a few episodes ago?" Tim Allen doesn't say: "OK, we've moved passed Ryan running out on the family, let's not make it where he can't tie his shoes together." That is so tiring, but I will say this. I do like that they have really worked Ryan and Kyle's relationship very well this past year. It does seem natural and works out. So, that is a plus, but the kid playing Boyd, still can't act and all his lines tonight made me want to send the kid to his room and not come down ever again. Like in Happy Days or Boy meets World. Boyd is horrible. Get a new kid please.

[readster]

This season finale was by far the most boringness. Jay Leno was shoehorned into the episode. Mandy's idea of why Kyle and her should live with her parents was beyond naive. Even though I loved that Kyle showed Mike and Vanessa how awesome he is and also Mandy telling him he has to stop acting like he has to be the best with everyone. I do like they have not messed with Kyle's character outside of him missing braincells when the writers think its funny. I mean he is still the youngest of 3 brothers, mother died early, father left and the grandmother raised the boys. I just think it was stupid that Mike is now seeing how great Kyle is with regular things when he has talked about how he has no motivation and so forth. Yet, he is the best employee at Outdoor Man and him and Ed have basically walked all over him. Never offered him a promotion because he has never asked for it. 

  Also, so much was left in the air. I mean, Ryan, Kristin and Boyd never really moved into their new house, Eve was graduating high school, but we have no idea what she is going to do such as: go to college, enlist, or just have a girl band in her parents' garage. Plus, what about Eve's supposed BFF? Is she moving out of the Laribes and her parents are coming back from Europe? Which also never made sense, you can't be gone that long on only a 90 day VISA. Of course ,why would the show do that kind of research? What about Vanessa getting her contract renewed for the school? She was going back and forth about how much she hated school politics so did the school decided it was time for her to leave? Are Ed and Wendy still getting married? 

  That's been the problem with LMS the last few years, all these plots and nothing gets solved or it is just wrapped up in a word because the writers write themselves in a corner like they have with Ryan's constant unemployment, Kristin dropping out of school, Boyd going to a private school.  Mandy's home fashion line going no place or now here with Kyle just leaving his apartment because they are getting married in a few months. Because you know, if we didn't see Ryan and Kristin's wedding why see Mandy and Kyle's? I'm sure this will get another season, but I think its time to close up Outdoor Man and the Baxters next year. The writers don't seem to know how to write.

[Big Mother]

I'm up to the Halloween episode. It was great. I was laughing out loud throughout!

[Firon]

On April 25, 2016 at 7:12 AM, readster said:

This season finale was by far the most boringness. Jay Leno was shoehorned into the episode. Mandy's idea of why Kyle and her should live with her parents was beyond naive. Even though I loved that Kyle showed Mike and Vanessa how awesome he is and also Mandy telling him he has to stop acting like he has to be the best with everyone. I do like they have not messed with Kyle's character outside of him missing braincells when the writers think its funny. I mean he is still the youngest of 3 brothers, mother died early, father left and the grandmother raised the boys. I just think it was stupid that Mike is now seeing how great Kyle is with regular things when he has talked about how he has no motivation and so forth. Yet, he is the best employee at Outdoor Man and him and Ed have basically walked all over him. Never offered him a promotion because he has never asked for it. 

  Also, so much was left in the air. I mean, Ryan, Kristin and Boyd never really moved into their new house, Eve was graduating high school, but we have no idea what she is going to do such as: go to college, enlist, or just have a girl band in her parents' garage. Plus, what about Eve's supposed BFF? Is she moving out of the Laribes and her parents are coming back from Europe? Which also never made sense, you can't be gone that long on only a 90 day VISA. Of course ,why would the show do that kind of research? What about Vanessa getting her contract renewed for the school? She was going back and forth about how much she hated school politics so did the school decided it was time for her to leave? Are Ed and Wendy still getting married? 

  That's been the problem with LMS the last few years, all these plots and nothing gets solved or it is just wrapped up in a word because the writers write themselves in a corner like they have with Ryan's constant unemployment, Kristin dropping out of school, Boyd going to a private school.  Mandy's home fashion line going no place or now here with Kyle just leaving his apartment because they are getting married in a few months. Because you know, if we didn't see Ryan and Kristin's wedding why see Mandy and Kyle's? I'm sure this will get another season, but I think its time to close up Outdoor Man and the Baxters next year. The writers don't seem to know how to write.

I thought that Ryan went to high school with Kristin. She got pregnant when they went to prom. How is it it that Ryan's Dad acted like he'd never been to Colorado when he lived there before. The writers act like Ryan has always lived on Canada. I wish the story lines would be more consistent. And why did they make Kyle grow more stupid the longer the show goes on?

[Chewy101]

I just re-watched season one, and it is so hard to watch any season after that because they really did ruin Kristin. She went from 19 to 35 by season 2, and the new actress just ruined the character for me. The original actress was so much better. Why did she leave? Ryan was more entertaining as a boob who wasn't ready to be a father, than to be the most oppressive over-attentive father I've ever seen. Both need to go away. I still love Mandy, Mike, Vanessa and Eve. Just send Kristin and Ryan to Canada, already. Spend more time on Kyle and Ed, and less on the oldest pair of 23 year olds in the world.

[4leafclover]

Quote

Add in Mike's constant political views that would have gotten him arrested. 

Not understanding this at all.  What specifically has he said that would have gotten him arrested?  

[yeswedo]

Season 6 begins on Friday, September 23rd. 

[NYGirl]

Wow..I thought the same thing you did about Kristin.  Plus that hairdo didn't do her any favors.  Were the stylists on this show out to lunch or what?

Silly storyline and I hate what they've done to Vanessa.

[readster]

I'm also in agreement with Kristin. If she is pregnant in real life and they are trying to hide it, I have to say that is actually pretty stupid to do. First of all, it would make sense, her and Ryan have been married now for two years, so writing it in would be fine. Of course with these writers who knows. They probably want to keep it hidden and then they will all of a sudden go: "Wouldn't it be cool if they have a baby now?" Like they did on According to Jim when they decided to hide Courtney Thorn-Smith's pregnancy and then all of a sudden wanted to write it in when she was about a month from having her twins because: "They changed their minds." The problem is, things all looked off, especially with Ed. Oh no, a bear is loose, let's keep it hidden when he said he had cameras in his office too and would see everything and then says at the end, he knows and was doing it on purpose because he could. 

  Everyone was just off in this episode, there were funny parts, but really Ryan talking about Kristin working so much, when he WON't GET A JOB! How they hell does he think they are going to pay for their mortgage. I get Kris wanting things to be a success since she decided to stop wanting to be a doctor because she thinks "vaccines are evil". I'm going to stop now.

[Skyfall]

19 hours ago, Pegasaurus said:

Ok - First show of the new season!  I was looking forward to it but now, I'm not sure if I was disappointed or not.

Random thoughts:

1. Kind of a silly story line. None of the actors seemed to be into this episode. LIke they knew it was stupid.

2. I was shocked by the appearance of the actress who plays Kristin. I've always thought she was badly cast. She doesn't fit in with the look of the rest of the family; unlike the actress who played Kristin in the first season.   Her appearance on this new episode was kind of shocking; is she pregnant, IRL?  or is this just an unfortunate weight gain?  Flouncing around the "sporting goods brunch cafe" in that hideous dress?

3. And why would one go to a sporting goods store for brunch?  I was hoping the bear was actually going to plow through the fish buffet.

4. Where was Eve?

5. I actually like Kyle but he's looking a little sloppy.  A decent haircut would be a needed improvement.  Surprised Mandy hasn't insisted!

6. I finally figured out why the kid (Boyd) seems strange; the older he gets, the more he resembles Jerry Mathers, who played Beaver on the old "Leave it to Beaver" show.  I always thought "the Beav" was a weird kid and a lousy actor.

7. Sometimes I love Vanessa; other times I just want to slap her for acting like a vapid moron.  Her character had potential but they've turned her into an insecure fool more often than not. She puts up w/ way too much macho crap from Mike.

8. Mike - I always want to smack him. 

The first couple seasons of this show were very enjoyable. I keep watching, hoping to see a revival.  If this first show is any example of what's to come, then I hope this is the last season.

1. The episode seemed to be shot weirdly. Not sure if this was a good season premiere episode. Probably should've been episode two with the season premiere showing us the pitch.

2. She did look weird this episode, but honestly I've grown to like her. Both actresses were good to be honest, but I can why the recasted Ryan so they could have him more involved.

3. It's been shown that it's a very successful high end fine dining eatery. Hell even the buffet canoe they showed was high end. It's a good idea, especially if it's only done on Sunday's.

4. With lower ratings probably going to see missing family members when they should be there. Hell this episode was pretty much a bottle episode  with almost all the shots after the opening being on the store set.

5. He's always had wild hair.

6. One reason I hope they have this as final season. The kid is growing too much for his show age.

7. Maybe if she had had a proper job in the first place...granted I don't remember what the Wife in HI did...

[readster]

Quote

 6. One reason I hope they have this as final season. The kid is growing too much for his show age.

7. Maybe if she had had a proper job in the first place...granted I don't remember what the Wife in HI did

It doesn't help that the kid playing Boyd really isn't that great either, even the way he acted when Kris kept telling him not to touch anything. It came off as: "My parents are taking my money, so who cares how I say it." 

 

7. Jill on Home Improvement originally worked as a magazine writer and later associated editor until the end of season 3 when they fired her to hire something with a better degree and had big boobs. That's when they had her go back to school, which even the writers said they did too long since Jill had her degrees, she was just working on the PhD. Which she should have had 2 years earlier, none of the writers were experienced with graduate work at that time. Problem with Vanessa is they had her work for an energy company, then the entire Ryan is an asshole, had her quit to work at a school. Yet, we never see her working on lesson plans, grading papers or online papers. Instead they have her drinking wine, complaining about school politics and telling us all what the audience knows. That Mike is an asshole who thinks he knows it all or everything has to be done his way. 

  Yes, they should have just left this for episode 2 or 3 and aired next week's episode since it's about Kyle and Mandy's upcoming wedding. Since that was the focus the last few episodes of last season. Also, wondering why they did the ex-wife poke with Ed when he just got engaged to Wendy. That also seemed out of place, not to mention Ed not wanting the buffet because too many "fat people" would be coming in. Um... Ed you do care if you make money right? Your Outdoor Man restuarants are taking off in your stores. Don't you want more capita? 

[4leafclover]

lol.  This show is a half hour comedy, to be enjoyed for its content and not to be taken so seriously.  It's not a documentary.  I enjoyed it very much and laughed at the silliness of the whole situation.

Edited September 25, 2016 by 4leafclover

[FormerMod-a1]

I don't know what I was expecting after reading the comments here but I thought Kristin looked fine.  She didn't look huge or anything.  Since I was looking for it though I could tell a little change, but that's it.  And if the actress is pregnant, I don't think they need to write it in.  They could, of course, and it would make sense for where she and Ryan are.  

[readster]

2 hours ago, aquarian1 said:

I don't know what I was expecting after reading the comments here but I thought Kristin looked fine.  She didn't look huge or anything.  Since I was looking for it though I could tell a little change, but that's it.  And if the actress is pregnant, I don't think they need to write it in.  They could, of course, and it would make sense for where she and Ryan are.  

That's what I mean. I would make sense, could lead to some very interesting writing and so forth. However, if she is and they want to ignore it and it becomes obvious, then they shoot themselves in the foot. I think it just went also too far with Kyle and feeding the cats. They treat it like he can barely tie his shoes. The idea would have been to put the cat food away from the dumpster and away from the building. Not just outside the door. Forgetting to close it, classic Kyle. 

[Big Mother]

I actually found the episode hilarious, especially Mr. Alazante's final punchline!

[readster]

10 hours ago, Big Mother said:

I actually found the episode hilarious, especially Mr. Alazante's final punchline!

I found it funny too, but it was also along the lines of: "Stupid co-workers, thinking I'm some uptight jerk." 

[Kel Varnsen]

Why was everyone so freaked out about the bear even when they were hiding on the second floor. They were in a store full of guns. I am not saying they should have shot the bear because it was an inconvenience but why not at least make sure you are protected?

[Big Mother]

They didnt have any tranquilizers in their darts, and it's illegal to kill a bear there.

[Kel Varnsen]

I imagine like in most places it wouldn't be illegal to kill a bear if it was an immediate threat to human life. So things like everyone really freaking out and Vanessa's stupid speech to Boyd were just dumb.

[readster]

2 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

I imagine like in most places it wouldn't be illegal to kill a bear if it was an immediate threat to human life. So things like everyone really freaking out and Vanessa's stupid speech to Boyd were just dumb.

That's what made it so bad. Even more that Kyle decided to try and go trank it when the best was to stay upstairs. Just tell Ed and wait for control. Still how the cub got that store room when the bear was in the main loading dock still made no sense. The episode was written like in 10 minutes and by 10 year olds. 

[Maharincess]

I just started watching this show in syndication, this season is my first one watching "live" so to speak. 

After this episode I have realized that the men on this show, with the exception of Kyle, are all raging assholes.  I know it's fictional but I seriously wanted to bitch slap the Mike character. What an asshole he is, the shower wasn't about him but he sure as hell made it about him.  

Didn't the older sister used to say Kyle pretty seriously at one time? And now he's marrying a different sister?  

[ae2]

On 10/1/2016 at 7:16 PM, Maharincess said:

I just started watching this show in syndication, this season is my first one watching "live" so to speak. 

After this episode I have realized that the men on this show, with the exception of Kyle, are all raging assholes.  I know it's fictional but I seriously wanted to bitch slap the Mike character. What an asshole he is, the shower wasn't about him but he sure as hell made it about him.  

Didn't the older sister used to say Kyle pretty seriously at one time? And now he's marrying a different sister?  

Mike was way worse than usual during the wedding shower. He's usually a little bit selfish, but eventually comes around and turns out to be more thoughtful than he appears. Here he veered head first into straight up douche bag jerk territory. The show is very inconsistent with its characters.

Here's the deal with Kyle and the sisters. In season 1 the oldest daughter and her child were younger - she was just out of high school and the kid was a baby. Kyle dated her. After season 1 they made some changes. They brought in new actors and aged up the oldest daughter and her kid. (I think they wanted to let Mike play off of the grandson, until they realized the kid they brought in to play him was not a great actor and had no chemistry with Mike.) This also let them bring in a new, older actor to play Boyd's dad and verbally spar with Mike. 

But they also wanted to keep Kyle around. It no longer made sense for him to date the oldest daughter, so eventually he dated the middle daughter. They still acknowledge that the first relationship happened but they never really get into how weird and awkward it should realistically be. 

Nearly every episode in seasons 2-4 featured some sort of political/social/parenting debate between Mike and Ryan (Boyd's dad), with Mike taking the old school/conservative side and Ryan taking the new age/millennial/liberal side. Last season they toned the politics back down a little bit and got back to being a family sitcom, although the discussions still pop up here and there. 

[readster]

The problem is, they have Mike come off as inconsiderate of everyone now and the same with Ed. They have written Ed to now be: "I'm the boss, you will do what I say no matter what." Plus you add in Chuck wants to pick a fight with Mike and vice versa when the stupidest thing is said. The real problem I have with how they treat Kyle is not that he is a yes man. That Mike and Ed say how much they respect him and actually understand him instead of Ryan constantly coming off as an idiot. Plus, they have tried to completely change the original basis of Ryan's character, there is no way I can see him running off after Kristin was pregnant with Boyd. He comes off as too much of a flakey guy that why Kris would have hooked up with him let alone eventually marry him makes no sense. Also, Vanessa is written like she doesn't have half a brain and not someone who has raised 3 daughters, dealt with Mike's crap for over 20 years and has a PhD who is suppose to be a high school teacher. 

  They write themselves in corners with the characters and then they have them be inconsistent with any behavior where nothing counts from previous episodes or seasons. It's become very distracting.

[Maharincess]

Thank you @ae2, you've explained a lot to me, I appreciate it.  I catch a repeat here and there and I was so confused when all of a sudden the older daughter was a different person. 

I'm watching an episode now and Boyd's dad is played by what looks like one of the Jonas Brothers. 

Thanks again. 

[readster]

11 hours ago, Maharincess said:

Thank you @ae2, you've explained a lot to me, I appreciate it.  I catch a repeat here and there and I was so confused when all of a sudden the older daughter was a different person. 

I'm watching an episode now and Boyd's dad is played by what looks like one of the Jonas Brothers. 

Thanks again. 

It was Nick Jonas and they said after the episode aired, they wanted to get Boyd's dad back full time and of course Jonas was pretty busy when they used it for stunt casting. Another thing that influenced aging Boyd was because the twins playing him were being used regularly on Dexter at the time, and and ABC quoted that they were tired of sharing them with HBO. 

[readster]

Much better episode after a horrible premiere and an ok second episode. The mystery of the safe and showing Kyle in his element of having great maintenance skills and not looking like a deer in the headlights was what I like about the character. I also enjoy the use of Eve here. Sadly, once again, the writers paint Vanessa has a ditz, can I believe she doesn't want to deal with the strike and never had to worry about that in her previous profession? Oh sure, no problem there, but when we never see her working on lesson plans, grading work either digital or analogue and drinking wine every time we hear her complain about the "politics of the school system" it doesn't paint Vanessa in a good light. She comes off like a teen at a new job going: "Why is it so unfair?" If we saw more of her stressed about school and working as a teacher in a more realistic light, then her turning back to smoking would make plenty of sense. Here it comes off very forced and then hearing from Ike that Vanessa use to smoke up until Kristin was a little girl is not some big revelation. It comes out of nowhere. 

[readster]

I laughed out so many times with everyone dressing like the other. However, Ryan couldn't shave for this? He has been clean shaved several times and Mike doing his: "I'm old now, screw everyone, I want to be left alone watching sports and farting now." That just makes him so unlikable but the part that really got me was when Vanessa talked about how she gave up a great job and almost being VP to follow a dream. I wanted Eve to go: "No mom, you listen to dumbass Ryan and Boyd dressing like a lump of coal that made you quit your job." I would have liked Ryan to then go: "Yeah, sorry about that." Once again, the writers wrote themselves in the corner and they had to have Vanessa just lose another job. Here is a problem, she have to join a union to work as a classroom teacher or at least be part of the AFT. So, her getting fired in the MIDDLE OF THE SCHOOL YEAR because she was the last new teacher hired. New as in 2 years ago, made even less sense. Plus, it as Haloween, where the hell was Boyd? The only kid in the family and Boyd wasn't there or even mentioned. Plus, where is Muffin the dog? 

  But, hey not like the writers started being realistic about anything  or using characters for actual story points since season 2. 

Edited October 22, 2016 by readster
Forget a sentence.

[Mabinogia]

I, too, wondered where Boyd was. He's still too young to be going trick or treating alone and if he's with a friend they should have at least mentioned it.

I did enjoy them all dressed as each other. I was kind of hoping Mike would be Chuck and Chuck would be Mike but I should have known they'd go with Trump.

Yeah, I don't remember teaching being Vanessa's dream until after she decided to quit her job because the kids in Eve's class coupled with Ryan, made her feel guilty about what her company did. Whatever, it was a funny episode.

[readster]

I cracked up several times, and the mocking of each other's characters was so spot on. Like they were saying: "Yes, this is who they are." Of course, Ryan could have shaved, but oh no. Unless the actor is filming a movie and has to be clean shaven, he always, always has to have a beard because remember. Ryan is a hippy and Eve hates everything. Yes, they made such a big deal to make Vanessa quit her job in season 3 for this teaching job and now. They can't do that either and it was NEVER a dream. She originally decided not to be a teacher because she went into business because it paid more and then she quit because of Eve's stupid classmates and Ryan being an asshole. Now, she is kicking herself, but you know, she could go teach at a college? Just like Eve could have still enlisted into the military, but since it wasn't Westpoint. Screw that, music in the garage. 

Edited October 22, 2016 by readster
fixing a sentence.

[Crucial]

I loved this episode because I thought the costumes were spot on.  Vanessa as Kyle was fantastic.  I did like the face to face Trump with Mike and Chuck - then Chuck leaving and showing the tail.  That was funny.  I love this show but I don't like how Mike hates Halloween now for the past two seasons after being so into it the previous 4.  For me, I never believed Vanessa as a teacher and that being her dream.  She wasn't that good when she was shadowing either.  Also, she didn't like the kids in Eve's class on career day.  Maybe there is another field she could go into that relates to her degree.

[readster]

3 hours ago, Crucial said:

I loved this episode because I thought the costumes were spot on.  Vanessa as Kyle was fantastic.  I did like the face to face Trump with Mike and Chuck - then Chuck leaving and showing the tail.  That was funny.  I love this show but I don't like how Mike hates Halloween now for the past two seasons after being so into it the previous 4.  For me, I never believed Vanessa as a teacher and that being her dream.  She wasn't that good when she was shadowing either.  Also, she didn't like the kids in Eve's class on career day.  Maybe there is another field she could go into that relates to her degree.

That's what I mean with Mike. This season and last he has turned into: "I hate doing this crap." Even with Christmas last year, he was all: "Enough with your stupid family traditions, Vanessa." I mean where did that even come from? I also remember when she and even Ed brought up about things Mike used to like and now he is all: "Get off my lawn, you damn kids!" I mean, where did this come from? You can blame it on where Kris and Mandy getting married to the last people he would expect, but he acts like having fun at Halloween, Christmas or I remember this past Valentine's Day he was all: "Why do I need to keep doing this?" 

   I don't know if it was Tim Allen's idea or the writers, but Mike has become so bitter about things when really, he shouldn't be. I mean he keeps acting like Vanessa is taking over the house and then has to turn around and make everything about him. He acted like he was better at raising Boyd and now he barely ever cares outside the private school idea last year. Same goes for Ed, he has is having Mike, Kristin and even Kyle bringing in a lot of business. More than they have had in years, making even more money and he is all: "I don't want fat people here." "Why do we need to carry this product?" "Why do you keep acting like I can't know about things?" It comes off that he is a business owner that maybe should just retire and turn everything over to Mike and Kyle and drive off into the sunset. 

   For Vanessa, I've been saying this since season 2 when they made it like Eve had to hate everything including what her mom did for a living. The people that Eve was supposedly "friends" with were coming off as 16 year olds who don't know how energy and fracking really working. Then you add in Ryan basically spilling stupid unfounded ideas to Boyd and then she is all: "I had a dream of being a teacher and I'll do that." Then she was coming off as a moron trying to get her state license. Then hating the politics, drinking wine on a daily basis and then she loses her job because: "She was the last new teacher." After 2 years, you are no longer the "new" teacher she would be: "Last teacher hired" and another problem is, if there was a set contract with the pay raise, then they couldn't cut her job. If they had made the raise and that required cutting down a staff member. Then Vanessa would have been told from day one. You don't just go to work and the next day: "Oh keep teaching and doing lesson plans even though technically have been fired." Yet her supposed "friends" and co-workers don't know how to tell her she is out of a job. The writer just don't know what to do with Vanessa and it makes her come off like an oblivious idiot because at this point in time. How the hell did she complete a PhD in Geology? Having a doctorate doesn't mean how smart you are, but more how determine you are, because you will never do any type of research or a paper like that again in your life. I should know, I'm in the middle of one now. However, Vanessa comes off more as someone who just happened to get opportunities thrown her way and good thing her kids were grown and her husband makes tons of money (insert eye roll). 

  I remember back in season 1 when they showed Vanessa's old job once and she was like the smartest person there and she said she was almost VP for the company and then threw it away. I wanted Mike to say: "Well, if you weren't so upset to offend stupid Ryan and Eve's former classmates and just tell Boyd that you weren't destroying the planet. You would have been fine." I mean in Vanessa's case, either have her teach at a community or university and they can have the best of both worlds. She teaches, makes more money and has just a little bit more foundation to retire on. Other wise, as many have said, finish this show after season 6 because they don't know what to do with the characters outside making them bitter about everything. I mean the characters mocking each other showed that really, they have no other direction outside to just be stupid, ignorant or bitter about everything. I mean, Eve still has no idea what to do and they could focus perfectly on the character trying to figure herself out, but aren't because she has been busy filming a movie and doing some side work outside the show and it's eating up her schedule. So as Mandy put it: "Grumble, grumble, complain about something that I really don't care about."  

[backformore]

Quote

Plus, it as Haloween, where the hell was Boyd? The only kid in the family and Boyd wasn't there or even mentioned.

That bugged me more than anything.  They're having a Halloween party -  but just with themselves, nobody outside immediately family invited.  Mike gets to assign everyone what costume they have to wear,  but nobody dresses as him?  I kept expecting Boyd to appear, dressed as and imitating Mike, but he was, what?  Sleeping through Halloween?    The entire premise - a family dressing in costumes just to sit around and bitch at each other, seemed weird.   And weirder still was the idea that a child Boyd's age wouldn't even be around for a family Halloween party.  Past  seasons have had Vanessa and Mike doting over Boyd like crazy.  Does the show have all new writers?  be cause these may be the same actors, but they are not the same characters as they once were.

Its always been my pet peeve about sitcoms - they add a child, then have some cutesy child-themed episodes, then the  kids disappear.   I recall way back, episodes of "Family Ties"  (Michael J Fox's show)  there would be episodes where the parents come home from work, the older kids come home from high school and college,  the whole episode happens,  and THEN the youngest kid suddenly gets picked up from kindergarten.  Because kindergarten gets out after 6PM?  Everybody Loves Raymond would do the same thing.  The twins are in high chairs in the kitchen, then suddenly the entire episode takes place in the living room, leaving toddlers unattended.  Now this show -  it's Halloween,  a kid's holiday, but the kid isn't going trick-or-treating?  doesn't have a costume?    I know, it's just a show, and there were funny moments, but it just seems lazy to ignore that in families with small kids, life revolves around the kid.

[readster]

Mike has really become an ignorant moron hasn't he? He was mad that Eve wanted to to do Habitat because it's doing her labor for free and she should be paid? How about giving people homes or helping those in need. I agree that Eve should find her own path, but it wasn't like she couldn't have enlisted. Mike acts like Eve is eating away at his money, when an 18 year old girl still living at home is such a horrible thing? Yet, he wants Boyd to go hunt at 10. Now, not a huge piece, but closer to age 12-13 would work. That was one of the few times that I was on Ryan's side. Mike has become such an asshole that if you don't see his few, screw you. His lessons and so half-assed now, he makes Jay from Modern Family look like father of the year. I'm sorry Tim Allen, but if you think this is how "men" should be now, it's not. So happy at least there wasn't a focus on the election as we know those episodes crash and burn.