Hoarders - General Discussion

[enoughcats]

New episode tonight. TWO hours.

I can't cut and paste from the Chicago Tribune, so here's the Cliff notes.

Carol spent two decades accumulating her treasures in the house she shared with her husband. She has left the husband and the hoard.

Dave, in declining health, is stuck with the hoard, the (you guessed it ) possibility of losing his "mansion". His family participates.

Pictures worth thousands of words tonight.

[yaytv]

On 7/19/2020 at 11:20 AM, BooksRule said:

I'm watching 'Sybil & Ron', the one with the woman with the infestation of at least 1,500 mice (and who sleeps outside in the 'catio' with her four cats so that she can avoid having mice run over her in her sleep) and the second-hand camera shop owner (who sells the 'special tea' for prostate trouble on the side).  I think that Sybil won the Captain Obvious Award for today when she was speaking about her huge collection of Christmas ornaments: 'For the most part, they were an investment... (pause)... and I think they were a poor way to invest'. 

Oh man, yeah, that was...A Lot. Yay that she realized that "investing" in stuff like Beanie Babies or Christmas ornaments is probably less practical than buying scratch-offs every week? Because at least with the scratchers, there is a minute chance you might win big. 

39 minutes ago, enoughcats said:

New episode tonight. TWO hours.

I can't cut and paste from the Chicago Tribune, so here's the Cliff notes.

Carol spent two decades accumulating her treasures in the house she shared with her husband. She has left the husband and the hoard.

Dave, in declining health, is stuck with the hoard, the (you guessed it ) possibility of losing his "mansion". His family participates.

Pictures worth thousands of words tonight.

Oh boy 😮

[FormerMod-a1]

I am doubting the entire hoard is hers. but we'll see.

[JudyObscure]

I'm watching "Patricia"right now and for once I like the hoarder better than the family members.  Her daughter keeps saying, "This is an upper-class neighborhood!"  Then she starts complaining about how she'll have to deal with it all when her mother dies, like that would be the worst part of her mom's death.  I know those hoarded houses are a big job to clean out, my father's house was well-packed, but I kind of want Linda to say, "Don't worry. I'm leaving the house to  charity."  It's probably worth a good sum in that upper-class neighborhood.

[satrunrose]

Anyone else want to bet that Carol and Dave were having an affair before Bea died? 

Otherwise. I'm really confused by this one. Carol left the house and her stuff. She doesn't seem to be in a relationship with her husband or want to be. She keeps saying she doesn't care...do whatever...she's the bad guy.... How is the not the one time when the crew can take the hoarder at her word and chuck the whole works into the trucks?

I kind of thought that it would turn out that Carol was perfectly normal and Dave was the real hoarder because she was so passive aggressive, but I guess not. 

[katycat74]

Welp, I guess that nice happy ending didn't last very long, did it? Carol is non grata and the house has to be sold after all. The black screen of doom really bummed me out this time.

 

[enoughcats]

Too much to think about tonight, but two things.

This is the first time I've ever said, out loud and with feeling, "Grow a pair, Dorothy."

Be sure to watch the very end of the show. Past when Carol says "It's a journey."

[lb60]

Mary for the win.

She was awesome!

Just once, I wish a hoarder would find a decent bra amongst all the crap.

RIP Dave. I hope you had a few happy moments in your house before you passed.

[Pavlov98]

1 hour ago, satrunrose said:

Anyone else want to bet that Carol and Dave were having an affair before Bea died? 

Otherwise. I'm really confused by this one. Carol left the house and her stuff. She doesn't seem to be in a relationship with her husband or want to be. She keeps saying she doesn't care...do whatever...she's the bad guy.... How is the not the one time when the crew can take the hoarder at her word and chuck the whole works into the trucks?

I kind of thought that it would turn out that Carol was perfectly normal and Dave was the real hoarder because she was so passive aggressive, but I guess not. 

Exactly what I was thinking.  She left the house and abandoned her crap.  Why was she being given any say at all?  When  she said she was going to keep living with her son and refused to help contribute any funds to fix up this house that she ruined, that should have been the end of her involvement in the cleanup.  

[FormerMod-a1]

Boy, was I wrong!  It was all Carol, all day, all night, all year.  Thank god for Mary.  And what a fake out with that ending, just when I thought we actually had a decent ending to one of these we get the carpet ripped out from under us.  Then the double whammy of the family needing to sell the house.  

[lovesnark]

1 hour ago, Pavlov98 said:

Exactly what I was thinking.  She left the house and abandoned her crap.  Why was she being given any say at all?  When  she said she was going to keep living with her son and refused to help contribute any funds to fix up this house that she ruined, that should have been the end of her involvement in the cleanup.  

I'm watching right now and have said this out loud a dozen times already. She walked away from her sick husband and her hoard. The family should have done the whole thing without her, then called her to say they'd boxed up a few things that weren't covered in rodent shit, where should they send them. 

[LittleIggy]

Agree with what other people have said. That old harpy had moved out so why let her have any say in the clean-up? I really loathed that awful old woman. I have no doubt she took money from her husband and hid it in her separate account. I hope she begins “cluttering” 🙄 her son’s home. Mary the granddaughter was awesome. She needs to become a professional mediator or a mental health professional.

I can’t wait to see Matt again!

12 minutes ago, lovesnark said:

I'm watching right now and have said this out loud a dozen times already. She walked away from her sick husband and her hoard. The family should have done the whole thing without her, then called her to say they'd boxed up a few things that weren't covered in rodent shit, where should they send them. 

Better yet, box up a few things covered in rodent 💩 along with a pancaked rat...😏

[AuntTora]

IMAGINE what a loser carol’s son must be.

[lovesnark]

53 minutes ago, LittleIggy said:

Agree with what other people have said. That old harpy had moved out so why let her have any say in the clean-up? I really loathed that awful old woman. I have no doubt she took money from her husband and hid it in her separate account. I hope she begins “cluttering” 🙄 her son’s home. Mary the granddaughter was awesome. She needs to become a professional mediator or a mental health professional.

I can’t wait to see Matt again!

Better yet, box up a few things covered in rodent 💩 along with a pancaked rat...😏

What I'd like to know is why did her husband agree to refinancing the house, taking out a second mortgage and selling the vintage car that had been promised to Mary? No one accused her of forging his name on documents to do it, so I'm thinking he agreed to it. Maybe she was shifty enough to sweet talk him into signing the documents and lied to him about how much money they were actually borrowing? I also have no doubt she funneled what she didn't spend on crap into her own credit union account. She was quick to say she needed her social security to pay rent, but shut right up when cornered about the credit union account. I loathed her, too. And, didn't for one second fall for her tears at the end. I hope her son keeps his bank accounts completely separate from his mother's and shreds or burns all of the credit card applications that come in the mail.

It's really sad that the kids won't get to enjoy the family home after finally getting it back. It's a lovely home with a lot of potential, I'd love to find out they were somehow able to keep it.

[JudyObscure]

There was so much I didn't understand. I love Dr Tolin and Dorothy but I don't think they even scratched the surface of Carol's curious brain.

Now. I could see Carol was a nasty piece of work at times and there's no excuse for selling the granddaughter's car, but the stepdaughter-in-law accused her of making friends with Be just so she could get Be's house and money  -- but Carol had no way of knowing that Be was going to die so why would she have been expecting any of that?  She and Dave didn't get married until 18 months after the death which is more than a decent interval.

It's my armchair psychiatrist theory that Carol hoarded the house to make it seem like her own, because 25 years after her marriage it was still Be's house, Be's furniture, Be's lovely decor, and Be's perfectly kept, always happy home (very unlikely considering Be's depression).  When it wasn't Be's house it was The Family Home.  Those boys were grown with homes of their own by the time Be died so I don't know why they felt they had any say in the house or their father's money. My parents sold the house my brothers and I grew up in without asking our permission and we didn't expect them to.

The stepdaughter-in-law who said all those unforgivable things to Carol had even less say in all that money she's been keeping such careful account of.  It was absolutely none of her business.

The world is full of second marriages these days and I really don't think it's right or appropriate to treat the second wife like an interloper in what is now her home, or like a  caretaker of the first wife's sacred stuff. 

My first husband remarried and they live in the house we had shared while we raised my son.  I'm absolutely positive they don't have my portrait hanging in the dining room.

[Minivanessa]

I watched the first several minutes of the new episode last night, up to the point where the professional (was it Dr. T?) was stepping onto the porch to introduce himself to Carol.

I just wasn't in a head space to deal with all that. Like, if she'd moved out, why the feck was Carol back, squatting like a troll on the porch of the house she'd trashed and being catered to with free professional help? The prior scene showed one of her stepsons talking with the city code enforcement officer about how they (the family) had been cleaning up the outside of the place so that it was looking decent. 

I agree that Be's sons had romanticized their "lovely family home," and weren't on solid ground if they hated Carol only for marrying their dad and moving into the house where they'd grown up (and long since moved out of as adults).

From the bits I saw and the discussion here, I think there was plenty to loathe about Carol and her behavior regardless of whether or not she was bumping uglies with Jack (Be's widower, can't be sure that was his name) while Be was still alive. 

From the minute we learned that Carol, who was "Be's best friend," hung around with Be and her husband ALL THE TIME, my hink-o-meter was bleeping red alert. Then we find out that Perfect Mother and Fabulous Hostess in the Family Mansion (Be)? Had bipolar disease and periods of depression. Sorry, but that whole "once it was a paradise" fairy tale narrative was so fucked up, who knows what the truth was? Yes I'm sure the house once looked nice, and often was the scene of large gatherings. But whatever the hell was going on in there wasn't, IMO, truthfully disclosed to us and the truth may never be known. 

Maybe if I'd had the stomach to watch the whole episode more would have been revealed. I thank all of you here who took one for the team and posted so intelligently about it!

Edited July 21, 2020 by Jeeves

[enoughcats]

Was Carol triplets?  

Mild mannered music teacher (how many boys in your class willingly took piano lessons?) who taught two boys and became BFF with their Mother? And then their Father was added to the happy trio?  And she's no so old that her son was grown up and out of the picture.

Hoarder and waster of money and resources.  And all that goes with it. 

The woman who had watched enough previous episodes of Hoarders to know where Dorothy and the Doc were coming from, what they'd say, and how she could respond to not-answer their questions and take over the conversations and shut them down. And this woman who (I think) had watched the show enough, knew how to give them the happy ending, reconciliation, etc. that the producers wanted, (and ran with), oh, what a lovely person.

She even had two body languages: the humped over troll (who I thought was a homeless woman wandering through the yard around the half hour mark) and the woman who looked Dorothy and the Doc straight in the eye as an equal and who shut down conversations. 

Unresolved:  why did she want the third floor to be off limits? Vehemently so.

Where did the money go? Or was his fireman's pension meager? The other two houses? Did the family get Mary a car? (My husband recognized that MG model immediately in the first photo, and they aren't worth that much on the very, very used car market.) (The first wife had a great sense of color and the MG color was to highlight her hair, and was definitely an aftermarket paint job, to flatter her?)

Where was her son through the episode? Was there a third family son? Seemed as if there were three young boys in one of the photos. 

[AZChristian]

We were REALLY tired of Dorothy trying to give "poor Carol" a sense of "her feelings mattered" during the whole thing.  

Dave was a doormat.  Carol was a bulldozer.  She moved in TWO DAYS after Be's death to take care of Dave.  I watch a lot of Dateline.  I wonder whether Be really did commit suicide.  Yes, I think Carol was THAT diabolical. I think there were indications of her forging documents and diverting Dave's funds.  She bought all that stuff to say to the family, "Your mother is dead.  This is MY house now, and I'll do what I please with it."

RIP, Dave and Be.  Good riddance, Carol.

Edited July 21, 2020 by AZChristian
Corrected Dave's name.

[sempervivum]

The husband was actually 'Dave'; interesting that he came across as such a nonentity that nobody remembers his name.

I began to doubt the veracity of this storyline when the afterwords said that Carol and Dave had moved back in to the house (albeit briefly). Who would allow those 2 decrepit old wrecks to live in a gigantic house that they can't even afford to pay utilities on?

I wonder if the family didn't just want the house cleaned up for free and strung the showrunners along until that was accomplished. If you didn't watch the very last minute you'd think it was a big 'success story' (at least by Hoarders standards).

Carol will still get all the profits from selling the house, though, unless the trust is only in Dave's name (ie, covered by probate law). Interesting rundown of this topic; State law on disinheriting a spouse

[NYCFree]

1 hour ago, sempervivum said:

Carol will still get all the profits from selling the house, though, unless the trust is only in Dave's name (ie, covered by probate law). Interesting rundown of this topic; State law on disinheriting a spouse

I don’t have the show any longer, so I can’t go back and check, but I think one of the follow up screens noted that the house was deeded over to Kevin when Carol didn’t move back in. Perhaps she signed away any interest in the house in return for the family not pursuing criminal charges for the missing money.

Edited July 21, 2020 by NYCFree

[sempervivum]

11 minutes ago, NYCFree said:

Perhaps she signed away any interest in the house in return for the family not pursuing criminal charges for the missing money.

Could be, although I don't know that one spouse moving mutually-owned money to a private account, even without the other party's knowledge,  would be considered 'criminal'? Shady, for sure, but if it was from a joint account, it was equally her money. Since they weren't divorcing, she couldn't be charged with concealing assets, IMO ( and NAL-not a lawyer!)

[CrazyInAlabama]

My guess is BFF Bea was doing the husband, and doing her best to hurt the wife, and ended up with the home and another person's family after the wife died.     You don't move in right after a person dies, when you're all just friends.   

I hate how they let hoarders like Carol, get away with hoarding a house, and bullying the rest of the family with their hoard of rat poop covered stuff, and not let people clean it out.    The show just pretends to care about the family or the hoards, they just care about ratings, and getting paid for showing how bizarre people can live.   

They show this repeatedly on the original network (A&E), then it pops up on associated networks over the years, and every time the producers and network make money.      THey have even kept filming when people threatened crew and clean up people, so I don't believe they even care about their own people.   They didn't even stop for long when a crew member fell right through the floor on one episode.   

 

Edited July 25, 2020 by CrazyInAlabama

[JudyObscure]

2 hours ago, enoughcats said:

She even had two body languages: the humped over troll (who I thought was a homeless woman wandering through the yard around the half hour mark) and the woman who looked Dorothy and the Doc straight in the eye as an equal and who shut down conversations. 

Even her boobs seemed to come and go.

Yes, jointly owned accounts can be closed by either party and a new account opened in his or her name only.

I'll bet it was Kevin's wife who contacted the show and talked everyone into doing it all.  No one was as interested in the money as she was so I'm not surprised she ended up with the house.  

I wasn't surprised that Carol was over at the house "within 48 hours," because that's what good friends do after a sudden death.  When my mother died her best friend was there for my father and I'll always be grateful to her.  He proposed to her about a year later and I was sorry she turned him down. 

Carol as a Dateline murderer, hmmm?  I can picture it.  Maybe poisoned with her own meds and then hung up by Carol?

It's funny that they spent two whole hours on one hoarder and we have more questions than after a regular show covering two people.

 

[LittleIggy]

Moving into the house within 48 hours after the death isn’t something I would consider normal or considerate.

[FormerMod-a1]

When Kevin's wife (wish I remembered her name) confronted Carol, she mentioned two other hoarded up houses and 2 storage units.  Carol is a severe hoarder. There is no changing her, not this late into her life.  And along with that, she is a master manipulator.  I wonder if she hoarded up those 2 other houses before or after marrying Dave.  Was she escaping one hoard when she moved in?

[enoughcats]

A hoarder murdered an animal control officer and Robin Zasio testified for the defense.  This happened in 2012 in Sacramento (and showed up when I was googling Carol and missouri) 

Corey was found guilty of first degree murder with two special circumstance

Quote

 

The hoarder died in San Quentin six months after entering the prison

Edited July 21, 2020 by enoughcats
the rest of that story

[enoughcats]

A summary with some of Carol's pithy comments

However I must point out that when she said "I don't give a rat's ass"  she, in point of fact, did have at least one rat's ass to give.

[AZChristian]

1 hour ago, JudyObscure said:

Yes, jointly owned accounts can be closed by either party and a new account opened in his or her name only.

Depends on the state and the bank.  Some jointly owned accounts can only be closed if there's a zero balance (which, obviously, is not that hard to do).  I got the feeling that Carol was all sorts of sneaky . . . and can't for the life of me figure out why Dave let her get away with her shenanigans.

[sempervivum]

2 hours ago, aquarian1 said:

When Kevin's wife (wish I remembered her name)

Missy!

[FormerMod-a1]

Thank you!

[OoogleEyes]

Wow! That was a lot. I don't know,  but that had to be one of the largest hoards we've seen. It looked like it was spread out for miles in that big yard. 

[CrazyInAlabama]

 

4 hours ago, enoughcats said:

A hoarder murdered an animal control officer and Robin Zasio testified for the defense.  This happened in 2012 in Sacramento (and showed up when I was googling Carol and missouri) 

So Zasio said in court it was devastating to have the house foreclosed on, and hoarder evicted after not paying for over three years, and he abandoned his animals too?     My guess the hoarder thought he could sneak back in, and stay there, because it would take years to evict him again.    Another example of hoarders controlling others, and being allowed to ruin other people's lives.    My heart goes out to the Animal Control officer's mother.    How disgusting that she was told the news of her son's murderer's death by a news reporter calling her for comments.   

So Carol threatened to slap one of the cleaners, and the show continued to film?     Anything for ratings.   It's only a matter of time until one of the cleaners or someone else gets hurt or worse by some hoarder.    

 

Edited July 21, 2020 by CrazyInAlabama

[JudyObscure]

1 hour ago, AZChristian said:

Depends on the state and the bank.  Some jointly owned accounts can only be closed if there's a zero balance (which, obviously, is not that hard to do).  I got the feeling that Carol was all sorts of sneaky . . . and can't for the life of me figure out why Dave let her get away with her shenanigans.

You don't even really have to officially close the account, just write a check for everything that's in it and use that check to open a new account in your name only.

 

5 hours ago, AZChristian said:

We were REALLY tired of Dorothy trying to give "poor Carol" a sense of "her feelings mattered" during the whole thing.  

Dorothy got on my nerves for the first time, too.  Not just for coddling Carol but after Missy told Carol off, accusing Carol of just being friends with Be because she was plotting to take over, and naming all the second mortgages, extra houses, etc.  I expected her to encourage Carol to defend herself but she just praised Missy for "getting all that out."  Does that really make for better family relations to say every bad thought you've ever had about a person?  

[auntjess]

4 hours ago, NYCFree said:

I don’t have the show any longer, so I can’t go back and check, but I think one of the follow up screens noted that the house was deeded over to Kevin when Carol didn’t move back in. Perhaps she signed away any interest in the house in return for the family not pursuing criminal charges for the missing money.

Edited 3 hours ago by NYCFree

Watching now.  The screen says "Because Carol refused aftercare, the deed to the house was signed over to Kevin. He and Missy hoped to keep the house in the family.
Carol is living with her son, and the family has cut off all contact with her.
(Dave died 9/9/19)
Unfortunately, debt and repairs on the home are too expensive, and it will be sold.

I came here, because as I watched, I hated Carol so much, and had no patience for 2 hours of her.  Was there a reason why Kevin got all?  
 

[yaytv]

I started this episode  on On Demand but omg. WHY was carol allowed back in the house if she’d walked out? Was her name on the house too? If so, whose dumb idea was that??

as soon as she started in on the “oh it’s all my fault, that’s what everyone  will say, boo hoo hoo” to Dr Dave, I got so annoyed. She was CLEARLY manipulating everyone with that “it’s all my fault, I just don’t know what to do” nonsense and a so called shrink fell for it. 
 

I also think it was in pretty poor taste that the show described how Be killed herself (by not editing out that part of the talking heads portion) AND that the camera then cut to a step ladder in the basement (where Be was found). It just seemed very out of line and I thought the general rule of thumb for suicides was to not really bring up the method used in case it encourages people?? Or is that old fashioned?

[CrazyInAlabama]

Anything for ratings, and if showing graphic details about a suicide bring in ratings, then they'll show it.  I feel so sorry for the woman's children having that on TV.   

[Claire85]

Wow. Carol is a sociopath. I totally agree with Missy that Carol targeted that family and insinuated herself in. No emotions. 
 

As much as I love Dorothy, she was not the right person for this one. She’s too sweet. They needed someone like Matt, who did not put up with Sandra’s nonsense. 

[AZChristian]

2 hours ago, auntjess said:

I came here, because as I watched, I hated Carol so much, and had no patience for 2 hours of her.  Was there a reason why Kevin got all?  

My assumption is that Kevin, as the oldest child, was going to be the executor of Dave's estate.  It's easier if everything is already in joint ownership or sole custody of the executor.

Went through that last year when my brother died and I was in sole legal charge of the hoard he left.  I threw away a bunch, donated a bunch, gave away a bunch, and sold a little bit.  Whatever was left after his final expenses were paid (including hauling stuff to the dump) was divided evenly among his four adult kids.  As the only person legally empowered, I was grateful to not have to deal with a committee of people with varying opinions.

[JudyObscure]

I think they should have made it clearer just who owned the house.  Usually husband and wife are both on the deed of the house they share and if one dies the other is automatically sole owner of the house.  I can't think of a single case I know of where one of the children got the house rather than the living spouse.  Carol doesn't get the house because she isn't doing aftercare?  Who made that condition? I know Carol had recently moved out but she was still married to Dave wasn't she?  This is the most bewildering thing to me.

[AZChristian]

4 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

I think they should have made it clearer just who owned the house.  Usually husband and wife are both on the deed of the house they share and if one dies the other is automatically sole owner of the house.  I can't think of a single case I know of where one of the children got the house rather than the living spouse.  Carol doesn't get the house because she isn't doing aftercare?  Who made that condition? I know Carol had recently moved out but she was still married to Dave wasn't she?  This is the most bewildering thing to me.

Several things I've seen about the episode refer to the fact that "Carol has hoarded her husband's home."  Sounds like she was never on the deed.  Maybe it was signed over to his son just in case Dave died intestate and the state law would have required that all or part of it would go to Carol.

[tljgator]

8 hours ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

My guess is BFF Bea was doing the husband, and doing her best to hurt the wife, and ended up with the home and another person's family after the wife died.     You don't move in right after a person dies, when you're all just friends.

Yep. There was way too much guilt flying around for it not to be so, I think. Also not sure she really wanted the "family" tossed in, so much as the house and the money and the status and whatnot. There's a long-ago story there that's probably more interesting than this turned out to be.

My bigger problem watching was how much she sounded like my grandfather in the early to mid stages of his demensia / Alzheimer's. Repeating the same things over and over (catch-phrase type things), lashing out (out of nowhere) when confronted with things (especially uncomfortable or behavioral things), suddenly cussing up a storm out of nowhere (when he never did so before - not sure about her, obviously), belligerent, getting lost in minutia. At one point the therapist even said he suspected that was an issue for her, but then he dropped it and it never came up again. Feh.

In any case, agree with all the above...why let her be there at all if she doesn't intend to stay -- kick her out and clean it up. Mary was the best of the lot, by a long shot -- hope she gets her car. 

[LittleIggy]

8 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

You don't even really have to officially close the account, just write a check for everything that's in it and use that check to open a new account in your name only.

 

Dorothy got on my nerves for the first time, too.  Not just for coddling Carol but after Missy told Carol off, accusing Carol of just being friends with Be because she was plotting to take over, and naming all the second mortgages, extra houses, etc.  I expected her to encourage Carol to defend herself but she just praised Missy for "getting all that out."  Does that really make for better family relations to say every bad thought you've ever had about a person?  

I was cheering for Missy when she unloaded on the old witch. She had every right to, IMO. Why shouldn’t she get it all out? 

[CrazyInAlabama]

On 7/21/2020 at 11:42 PM, LittleIggy said:

I was cheering for Missy when she unloaded on the old witch. She had every right to, IMO. Why shouldn’t she get it all out? 

Yes, Missy was telling the truth, and it should have been done when Carol moved into the house two days after the woman committed suicide.   I'm guessing Carol didn't just leave, but moved on to one of her other properties, or another man she could bleed dry.    I'm sick of the shrinks and organizers, on this show coddling the hoarders, and telling family and friends they conned into helping with the show to keep filming.    I admire the relatives and friends that walk away, and stay gone.     This show changes nothing about the hoarder, except making them feel important, and reaffirming that they're the center of the universe, and control everything.     I wish more people would leave, and stay gone, and cut off the hoarders.    The only person a hoarder cares about is the hoard, and that a big F.U. to the rest of the world.   

When I read about Zasio's testimony for the hoarder who murdered a man, that did it for me.    Who has this show actually helped?    The answer is only one or two, who weren't hoarders, but did clean up.    I can only think of one case, a young man who was in a hoard with his father, and that issue wasn't hoarding, but the father's drinking problem.   The fact that children, and animals live in these hoards, but very little is done to help them is disgusting.     It's all about the ratings, and keeping the filming going.   

Edited July 23, 2020 by CrazyInAlabama

[Minivanessa]

11 hours ago, AZChristian said:

Several things I've seen about the episode refer to the fact that "Carol has hoarded her husband's home."  Sounds like she was never on the deed.  Maybe it was signed over to his son just in case Dave died intestate and the state law would have required that all or part of it would go to Carol.

Good points. If her name wasn't on the deed, Carol may have simply signed a quitclaim deed in favor of Kevin. Long ago a relative died intestate, possessing nothing much besides a mortgaged family home and leaving very little insurance. His three adult children signed quitclaim deeds to the house, in favor of his widow. Their names weren't on the deed; the QC deeds simply conveyed any interest they may have had under intestacy laws, to their stepmother. Kept the title to the property clean. 

I didn't watch the whole episode and don't know how many details were disclosed. It sounds like the house was heavily mortgaged. So good old Dave, either with or without Carol as a co-owner, signed off on mortgages on the place. I assume that was necessitated by Carol's spending on all the treasures she jammed into the fairytale mansion. 

[JudyObscure]

7 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

I was cheering for Missy when she unloaded on the old witch. She had every right to, IMO. Why shouldn’t she get it all out? 

Because there is no proof to her accusations yet she said them on national TV and everyone seems to believe them.  Most of what Missy said was gossip, "Someone said she was seen driving Be's Lincoln."  Nothing to do with the house, or Carol and Dave's finances, was any of Missy's business.

Missy accused Carol of befriending Be in order to get the things she had.  It must have been a very long term plan.  The boys were little when Carol made friends with the family and judging from the pictures Be was in her 60's when she died  unexpectedly.  The boys were grown and Kevin said his first child was on the way.  Carol had been their friend for many years.

Missy claims that Carol moved in within 48 hours of Be's death.  Carol says Dave was having a hard time dealing with the death.  It's perfectly plausible that he couldn't sleep alone in the big house and asked Carol to stay over.  The black screen of justice, clearly anti-Carol throughout the show, says "JUST 18 months later carol and Dave married."  Why the just?  That's a reasonable period of time. 

I think Missy is the master manipulator here, not Carol.  Carol clearly didn't want the show to come. knew how she would be portrayed, and was on the defensive throughout, so it was probably Missy who contacted them and once A&E saw the house I expect they brought the persuasion of every producer to get Carol to agree.  Missy and Kevin had tried to clean out the house themselves and couldn't do it so calling the show saved them a lot of work and money.

Kevin says the kids refused to go to the wedding and quit going around after the marriage.  How selfish and immature.  It sounds like a typical case of grown kids acting like babies, wanting their widowed parent to sit alone, grieving for mommy forever.  Dave's family was clearly  hostile to Carol from the start.

Missy says Carol "refinanced the house and got a second mortgage."  So, clearly Carol was on the deed as joint owner.  Yet the family and the show always referred to it as "Dave's house" or "the family home." 

At one point, shortly before A&E came, Dave and Carol must have argued. Carol moved out and Dave went to stay with Kevin, but that would have had zero effect on the ownership of the house.  Abandonment counts in a divorce case but not in property ownership.  After Dave's death Carol would have been full owner.

So.  Missy and Kevin get the house cleaned out for free and have a two hour show on their side. 

Final screen: "Because Carol refused aftercare, the deed to the house was signed over to Kevin."

They must have gone to court with some sort of  incompetency claim. 

Winner Missy.

[enoughcats]

4 hours ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

 It's all about the ratings, and keeping the filming going.   

Heaven help me, but I sat through the ads.  At first I was impressed by the variety of ads from sources that they hadn't had as advertisers in previous seasons. 

Then, came the part where I would put a foot note to "it's all about the ratings", because it isn't.  A&E have OTHER shows that they had glossy, well photographed ads for.  Some were ...ironic isn't the right word.

One was for people making many many dollars buying the contents of abandoned storage units ...why, they even had found a box of money!!!  There were two others, at least, that could have inspired Hoarders as well as the return of Intervention with lots of pictures of folks really appearing to be down on their luck and barely aware. (Might have the wrong title, but drugged out folks wasn't the title).  

I had a bad feeling that A&E was using Hoarders as a portal to get fans to watch some of their other stuff, but not exactly inspirational stuff.  

Next week, I record and fast forward. 

 

[yaytv]

14 hours ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

Anything for ratings, and if showing graphic details about a suicide bring in ratings, then they'll show it.  I feel so sorry for the woman's children having that on TV.   

True, but it sucks 😞 I'm not sure I'll finish this episode especially knowing how it ended. The last several minutes of Dale's episode did get to me until I saw that he went back into the hoarded house because the other one had no utilities or heat 😞 Theblack screen said that he was using aftercare money for therapy and at least hasn't acquired new stuff, and is supposedly focusing on getting rid of stuff. I hope that's still the case. 

And now we're onto Linda's episode (I just play them one after another on the A&E app while I work, as disgusting white noise). Not gonna lie, I'm really over the "WORST HOUSE EVER OMG" editing that they're doing lately. EVERY hoard has been "the worst ever" for like 9 seasons now and if the onscreen graphics ask, "Can this house be saved????" I'm absolutely going to be like, "god no, just bulldoze it now and salt the earth, then sell the land to HUD so at least someone will benefit from it. Charge the hoarder with trespassing if they complain." (Yes, I know, I'm horrible. But between this show and dealing with hoarding family members--and my own worries about my own potential for hoarding--I'm just out of patience, you know?)

[sempervivum]

3 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Kevin says the kids refused to go to the wedding and quit going around after the marriage.

I thought one of them said that when they tried to visit, Carol stood in the doorway and made it clear she didn't want them in the house.

 

3 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Missy says Carol "refinanced the house and got a second mortgage."  So, clearly Carol was on the deed as joint owner.  Yet the family and the show always referred to it as "Dave's house" or "the family home." 

At one point, shortly before A&E came, Dave and Carol must have argued. Carol moved out and Dave went to stay with Kevin, but that would have had zero effect on the ownership of the house.  Abandonment counts in a divorce case but not in property ownership.  After Dave's death Carol would have been full owner.

Carol could have easily talked Dave into signing the paperwork for a 2nd mortgage, it was clear he would do whatever she told him to.

Since the house was bought long before she married Dave, unless he made a special point of changing the title, it's very likely the ownership legally would have been Dave's alone.  My husband had to go to a lawyer to get my name added to the title.

Also, my recollection was that Carol had moved out 2 years ago/had been living with her son for 2 years, although I agree that would have no effect on ownership.

 

[JudyObscure]

Both statements came out of the show, one of the sons, Dave Jr. I think, said they quit going over and Missy, who I do not trust said, that they couldn't get past the door. Even if Mary's telling the truth there's  no telling how many years passed between those things.

37 minutes ago, sempervivum said:

Carol could have easily talked Dave into signing the paperwork for a 2nd mortgage, it was clear he would do whatever she told him to.

Since the house was bought long before she married Dave, unless he made a special point of changing the title, it's very likely the ownership legally would have been Dave's alone.  My husband had to go to a lawyer to get my name added to the title.

 We added my grown son to our deed just by going to the court house Title office and adding his name.  He didn't even have to sign and doesn't know he's third owner.  I don't doubt Carol talked Dave into the second mortgage but I think she would have also  talked Dave into adding her name to the deed. Wives talk their husbands into things, it's not a crime.   I actually think every married woman is entitled to part ownership of the house she lives in, maybe not legally but morally.  What I don't think is that granddaughters are entitled to automatic free access to their grandfather's house as Mary seemed to believe, and sons and daughters-in-law aren't automatically  entitled to inherit anything  at all, unless their parent dies without a spouse and no will. 

The fact that Missy always wanted that house and ended up with it seems really shady to me.  I'd love to hear from the third son who took no part in all this.

Edited July 22, 2020 by JudyObscure

[AZChristian]

17 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

I don't doubt Carol talked Dave into the second mortgage but I think she would have also  talked Dave into adding her name to the deed.

But if she talked him into the second mortgage on a house that she DIDN'T co-own, and then ran up a lot of other bills, creditors would go after his estate (collateral) for the balance, not someone who had no legal/financial connection to the house.  Win/win for Carol.  She gets to spend the money on all that crap, but Dave's family has to pay it back.  If she had died first, he still would have been stuck with all the bills.  

Something else that made me suspect Carol of all kinds of fraud was the fact that the step-granddaughter said that CAROL had sold the car that was supposedly promised to her by Be.  No reason for Carol's name to be on that title, so I wonder if she forged Dave's signature on the title so she could sell it.  

I still maintain that Dave was a doormat.  He has a LOT of responsibility for what happened.  Thank goodness that his son and DIL took him in after the filth got so bad in Dave's house that it endangered his health.