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11 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Wait, did Ross forget it's Dr. Green?  

No, he said Dr. Green.

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10 hours ago, tracyscott76 said:

Though she did convince Bonnie to shave her head again, and did everything she could think of to keep Ross and Julie from having sex. And basically slut shamed the woman at the baby goods store when she showed interest in Ross ("you missed a button", "horny bitch", etc.)

The thing with Bonnie was crappy, and in the middle of them both doing cruel things because their breakup was unfinished. The best thing Friends ever did was make that breakup final, with the whole eighteen page letter thing.

I'd give Rachel a pass for her hormonal possessiveness regarding the baby store woman, far more quickly than I'd give Ross a pass for freaking out over Joey potentially seeing Rachel's breast when she was breastfeeding in the hospital.

And, as I've just watched the first half of season three on rewatch, my irritation over Ross is at an all time high. He shows absolutely no joy for Rachel when she gets an interview, then a job, with Bloomingdales. He is completely hung up on Mark and the idea that he's just doing this to get into Rachel's pants. He's obsessed with his own feelings and insecurities, to the point that Monica has to tell him to stop being a prick.... And then he just carries on being one by sending loads of flowers and gifts to Rachel's office, topped off with a fucking barbershop quartet, all in what seems to be her first week on the job. And that's before the meal in the office that he plans, despite Rachel clearly not wanting it.

It's played for laughs, but a possessive, insecure boyfriend who forces himself into your professional life and tries to tell you who you can and can't be friends with really isn't a laughing matter.

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Hey, at least Monica made good use of that Quartet, so not a total waste.

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46 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

And then he just carries on being one by sending loads of flowers and gifts to Rachel's office, topped off with a fucking barbershop quartet, all in what seems to be her first week on the job.

Oh no-that was on her first DAY on the job!

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I actually don’t even feel like giving Rachel a lot of grief over the Bonnie thing because Rachel really didn’t have to try that hard to get Bonnie to shave her head. 

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3 minutes ago, kariyaki said:

I actually don’t even feel like giving Rachel a lot of grief over the Bonnie thing because Rachel really didn’t have to try that hard to get Bonnie to shave her head. 

And Bonnie did bring up the fact she was thinking of shaving it again...

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"Horny bitch" was such a funny scene, I'm sorry.  I'm laughing just thinking about it.  I hate when men use that word, but coming from a woman , like I'm laughing as I'm typing this LOL.

1 hour ago, Danny Franks said:

And, as I've just watched the first half of season three on rewatch, my irritation over Ross is at an all time high. He shows absolutely no joy for Rachel when she gets an interview, then a job, with Bloomingdales. He is completely hung up on Mark and the idea that he's just doing this to get into Rachel's pants. He's obsessed with his own feelings and insecurities, to the point that Monica has to tell him to stop being a prick.... And then he just carries on being one by sending loads of flowers and gifts to Rachel's office, topped off with a fucking barbershop quartet, all in what seems to be her first week on the job. And that's before the meal in the office that he plans, despite Rachel clearly not wanting it.

That's awful.  Mark WAS trying to get in Rachel's pants, LOL, BUT!!!!!!!!  Rachel was a very loyal girlfriend and the point was that Ross should have trusted her.  He was so awful here.

Edited by Ms Blue Jay
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2 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

That's awful.  Mark WAS trying to get in Rachel's pants, LOL,

At least he waited a respectable amount of time before asking her out.

R/R broke up in episode 16.

Mark didn't ask Rachel out until episode 19.

(of course Ross didn't even have the gall to ask Rachel out, the only reason they even got together was because Chandler let it slip)

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Yeah, but the entire friendship/coworker relationship is called into question from the beginning because he was attracted to Rachel the whole time.  So everything he did had an ulterior motive.  He was not a friend to Rachel he was just some guy that liked her.  I would respect him more if he was simply a nice person, but that's asking too much.  Ross (and Joey) were right that it seemed suspicious that he wanted to help a stranger's career out of the good of his heart.  If Rachel was ugly, he wouldn't have done it.  He's not that respectable to me.  Wasn't Rachel super duper broken hearted over Ross when he asked her out?

Edited by Ms Blue Jay
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But, didn't Mark have a girlfriend when Rachel first started?

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Yeah, one of his colleagues.  LOL.  I still think if Rachel was a man or not an attractive young woman he wouldn't have helped her.  

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My take on Mark, based on how the actor played him, is that he made the offer to Rachel in good faith and then developed feelings after they started working together. I never thought he made the offer to try to get in her pants. I liked that he and Rachel remained on good terms even after their date and I really liked that their mutual fondness was strong enough that she was delighted to see him after they'd lost touch and he was still a good guy, though this time he was opening a door for an old friend. And of course Ross took any character growth and chucked it out the window the second Rachel reminded him who Mark was.

I dislike that they wrote him as having feelings for Rachel because it let Ross feel some justification for his behavior. Ross was doing a ton of projection in the lead up to the break and I liked that he was completely wrong. Mark didn't make a move on Rachel and, at first, had his own girlfriend with whom he was apparently adorable. I've firmly believed that the season 3 build up to the break was legit brilliant and having Ross feel justified even a little cheapened that.

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3 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

My take on Mark, based on how the actor played him, is that he made the offer to Rachel in good faith and then developed feelings after they started working together. I never thought he made the offer to try to get in her pants. I liked that he and Rachel remained on good terms even after their date and I really liked that their mutual fondness was strong enough that she was delighted to see him after they'd lost touch and he was still a good guy, though this time he was opening a door for an old friend. And of course Ross took any character growth and chucked it out the window the second Rachel reminded him who Mark was.

I dislike that they wrote him as having feelings for Rachel because it let Ross feel some justification for his behavior. Ross was doing a ton of projection in the lead up to the break and I liked that he was completely wrong. Mark didn't make a move on Rachel and, at first, had his own girlfriend with whom he was apparently adorable. I've firmly believed that the season 3 build up to the break was legit brilliant and having Ross feel justified even a little cheapened that.

I agree that there was nothing in Mark's manner early on that suggested he particularly wanted to sleep with Rachel. At least, it didn't seem to be his motivating factor. He wasn't bothered by Ross's pathetic attempts to mark his territory, and he was genuinely friendly whenever he and Ross interacted.

It seemed to me like the show wanted to make it clear that Ross was freaking out irrationally and that his insecurities were causing him to sabotage himself in increasingly damaging ways. It was all on Ross. And look, as a guy who already lost a marriage because his wife fell for someone else, it's understandable that he'd be insecure and worried, but he never really made a concerted effort to get past those insecurities. As a story about a guy indulging in toxic behaviour and ruining a relationship he'd invested so much in, it was pretty well done.

The later retcon of Mark trying to seduce Rachel seemed like a way of giving Ross an out that he didn't deserve, to restore the parity between him and Rachel so they could be friends again.

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I think Ross was justified in thinking that Mark was behaving strangely.  But he was not justified in how he treated Rachel.   I also think it's really believable that a man would be attracted to Rachel.  

Edited by Ms Blue Jay
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1 minute ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I think Ross was justified in thinking that Mark was behaving strangely.  But he was not justified in how he treated Rachel.   I also think it's really believable that a man would be attracted to Rachel.  

Oh, I'm sure Mark was attracted to Rachel, and probably to Monica too, as they were together when he came over and introduced himself. But I do think he was just doing a nice thing, at the time. Would he have jumped at the chance to sleep with Rachel, if he was single and she was interested? I'm sure he would, and of course he tried to do just that later on.

But the acting and writing of Mark's character made it seem like Mark was just a nice, inoffensive guy and Ross was a paranoid lunatic.

I've never been a particular fan of the laddish trope in Friends when Ross, Chandler and Joey would agree that everything a guy does is about wanting to have sex. Especially those three guys, who actually have female friends that they aren't actively trying to have sex with.

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Does anyone else think "The One with the Yeti" is a classic episode? Joey carried that episode on his back. I think that might be Matt LeBlanc's funniest performance on the show. 

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Mark didn't ask Rachel out until episode 19.

Yeah, but he was there at Monica & Rachel's place the night R&R were on a break...not sure why Rachel called him to begin with, and him insisting on coming over probably wasn't the best thing either of them did that night.

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12 hours ago, chitowngirl said:
12 hours ago, kariyaki said:

I actually don’t even feel like giving Rachel a lot of grief over the Bonnie thing because Rachel really didn’t have to try that hard to get Bonnie to shave her head. 

And Bonnie did bring up the fact she was thinking of shaving it again...

Whether or not Bonnie was thinking of it or Rachel didn't have to try hard to convince her, it was still something Rachel intentionally did to make Bonnie theoretically less attractive to Ross.

And there was so much more to that whole thing than the head shaving. Rachel was flirting up a storm with Ross, despite him seeing someone else, and then seductively said that she'd be up in her room, heavily implying that if he joined her there, they would be getting back together, probably in a physical way. So Ross goes up there, Rachel's all happy to see him, he goes in for a kiss, and only then does Rachel say "oh by the way, if we're getting back together, you need to read this 18 page manifesto and agree with everything in it." Yeah, they needed to work that shit out, but that's a conversation that should have happened before Rachel gave him the bedroom eyes.

Yes, Ross is a grown man and makes his own choices, but it was still manipulative and gross, and Rachel shouldn't get a pass for it.

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6 hours ago, Hiyo said:

Yeah, but he was there at Monica & Rachel's place the night R&R were on a break...not sure why Rachel called him to begin with, and him insisting on coming over probably wasn't the best thing either of them did that night.

Admittedly yeah, Mark coming over that night pretty much without Rachel's consent wasn't the best thing to do. FYI, @Hiyo, Mark was the one who called Rachel in the first place.

47 minutes ago, tracyscott76 said:

Whether or not Bonnie was thinking of it or Rachel didn't have to try hard to convince her, it was still something Rachel intentionally did to make Bonnie theoretically less attractive to Ross.

I hated how all the Friends were skeeved out by Bonnie being bald. Hairless Christine Taylor is still very pretty! You would think that a bunch of twentysomething New Yorkers would've seen much worse things than a bald woman (and I am not trying to say that baldness is bad). Chandler mentioned in one episode there was a guy on the subway that eats his own face...

Edited by Kawaiiko
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12 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

It seemed to me like the show wanted to make it clear that Ross was freaking out irrationally and that his insecurities were causing him to sabotage himself in increasingly damaging ways. It was all on Ross. And look, as a guy who already lost a marriage because his wife fell for someone else, it's understandable that he'd be insecure and worried, but he never really made a concerted effort to get past those insecurities. As a story about a guy indulging in toxic behaviour and ruining a relationship he'd invested so much in, it was pretty well done.

You give the writers too much credit.  I don't think that was their intention at all.  I think we the audience saw things that way but I'm not so sure the writers did.  As mentioned above Ross's possessiveness was played for laughs.  I remember watching it when that episode first aired and not finding Ross's "romantic gestures"  funny at all.  I was sad he was ruining his and Rachel's relationship. 

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7 hours ago, ifionlyknew said:

You give the writers too much credit.  I don't think that was their intention at all.  I think we the audience saw things that way but I'm not so sure the writers did.  As mentioned above Ross's possessiveness was played for laughs.  I remember watching it when that episode first aired and not finding Ross's "romantic gestures"  funny at all.  I was sad he was ruining his and Rachel's relationship. 

I have the feeling that was their intention. Especially since in season four, when Ross was worried about Susan stealing Emily away from him, the girls pointed out Ross' obsessive behavior and jealousy as a character flaw. Rachel even mentioned that Ross was insanely jealous of Mark. The whole point of that episode was that Ross had to get over his past if he was going to move on with Emily. The episode even goes out of its way to say that Ross' insecurities started after Carol left him for Susan. I think @Danny Franks was right on the money. 

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This all reminds me of that hilarious blooper where suddenly David Schwimmer pauses acting and says "Poor Ross".  And Lisa Kudrow starts laughing hysterically and says "Haven't you seen this show?"

 

Edited by Ms Blue Jay
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10 hours ago, tracyscott76 said:

Yes, Ross is a grown man and makes his own choices, but it was still manipulative and gross, and Rachel shouldn't get a pass for it.

I certainly don't mean to give Rachel a pass for her own toxic behaviour and that run of episodes at the end of season three were probably her nadir, but I do think that, over the course of the show, Ross exhibited worse behaviour than Rachel when it came to their relationship.

Still, it all reiterates my view that they were horrible together, and the show leaning on it for almost the entirety of its run is one of the things that really hasn't aged well. Even when I was watching the show as it aired, I was rooting for Ross and Rachel to just not be together, or even interested in each other, any more. I was thrilled about Emily being added, then incredibly annoyed by the season four cliffhanger.

The idea that the other four friends would ever root for these two to revisit their tortuous romance has always been absurd to me. Imagine having to live through all that drama, hurt and recrimination, almost seeing your close friend group fracture, only to then somehow arrive on a stable footing again. Then imagine how you'd feel if you saw the two people responsible for all of that start to toy with the idea of doing it all over again.

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13 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

Still, it all reiterates my view that they were horrible together, and the show leaning on it for almost the entirety of its run is one of the things that really hasn't aged well. Even when I was watching the show as it aired, I was rooting for Ross and Rachel to just not be together, or even interested in each other, any more. I was thrilled about Emily being added, then incredibly annoyed by the season four cliffhanger.

The idea that the other four friends would ever root for these two to revisit their tortuous romance has always been absurd to me. Imagine having to live through all that drama, hurt and recrimination, almost seeing your close friend group fracture, only to then somehow arrive on a stable footing again. Then imagine how you'd feel if you saw the two people responsible for all of that start to toy with the idea of doing it all over again.

I agree with that. It's a shame, because there were times throughout the show where Ross and Rachel had these little interactions that weren't meant to indicate that they were getting back together, but just showed that two people with history who still generally care for each other are going to have these wistful, bittersweet moments from time to time. I thought a lot of those were well done, precisely because they weren't getting them back together. Then the show threw it all away at the end.

And as for the other four rooting for them, I can kind of understand the initial feeling of "oh yay, they'll work it out and everyone will be happy again", but given the circumstances of the first (and second "Fine by me!") break-up, there's no way they should have wanted their friends back together and likely hurting each other (and them) again.

Edited by tracyscott76 · Reason: Removing redundancy
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1 hour ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

This all reminds me of that hilarious blooper where suddenly David Schwimmer pauses acting and says "Poor Ross".  And Lisa Kudrow starts laughing hysterically and says "Haven't you seen this show?"

 

Lisa's laugh is so infectious, I love it.

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28 minutes ago, helenamonster said:

Lisa's laugh is so infectious, I love it.

She sounds like she's in pain when she's laughing and it makes it even funnier.

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16 hours ago, Kawaiiko said:

I hated how all the Friends were skeeved out by Bonnie being bald. Hairless Christine Taylor is still very pretty! You would think that a bunch of twentysomething New Yorkers would've seen much worse things than a bald woman (and I am not trying to say that baldness is bad). Chandler mentioned in one episode there was a guy on the subway that eats his own face...

Well - Rachel was fine with Phoebe fixing Ross up with her BALD friend.  And no one was interested in dating the guy who eats his own face 😄 

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6 hours ago, princelina said:

Well - Rachel was fine with Phoebe fixing Ross up with her BALD friend.  And no one was interested in dating the guy who eats his own face 😄 

I know. I was just using the guy who eats his face as an example of "They're in NY, they've seen worse than a bald woman!"

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One of these days I am going to look up who wrote “The One with the Male Nanny” and “The One with Ross’s Inappropriate Song” because Ross blurting “are you gay?!?” to Freddie Prinze Jr. and Rachel calling Phoebe a stupid hippie are two of the WORST lines.  I judge David and Jennifer for not fighting against saying them.

Also Phoebe punching Mike’s dad is so stupid.

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David Crane and Marta Kauffman wrote the former, Robert Carlock wrote the latter.

(This is just according to Wikipedia, so this might not be entirely right. They probably wrote the first draft... but I think the whole writers room would polish it up. I might be wrong.)

 

Edited by Kawaiiko
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On 4/6/2021 at 4:58 PM, Danny Franks said:

I'd give Rachel a pass for her hormonal possessiveness regarding the baby store woman, far more quickly than I'd give Ross a pass for freaking out over Joey potentially seeing Rachel's breast when she was breastfeeding in the hospital.

I get that, but there was definitely a degree of "No, you CAN'T have Ross!" present with her and the baby store woman.

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I think that Rachel was more surprised by the "brazenness" of the clerk who hit on Ross when he was clearly shopping for baby stuff with Rachel.  It was brazen.  I wouldn't have done it.

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1 hour ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I think that Rachel was more surprised by the "brazenness" of the clerk who hit on Ross when he was clearly shopping for baby stuff with Rachel.  It was brazen.  I wouldn't have done it.

But the clerk only started flirting with Ross after they told her they weren't a couple. And initially, it was just Ross and the clerk bonding over the dinosaur stuff he was buying, which Rachel pointed out was one of the reasons why they weren't a couple - so pretty much telegraphing that she had no interest in Ross and he was available.

Aaand then Rachel called the woman a whore and a slut when talking about her later. Brazen or not, she didn't deserve that.

Edited by tracyscott76
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It’s brazen because single is irrelevant, dating someone who’s about to have a baby with someone else is nuts. There’s so much potential baggage and issues there, I wouldn’t even think of hitting on a single dude buying stuff with his baby mama. I also give Mona a side eye for continuing to date Ross after she found out he’d knocked up Rachel.

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18 minutes ago, kariyaki said:

It’s brazen because single is irrelevant, dating someone who’s about to have a baby with someone else is nuts. There’s so much potential baggage and issues there, I wouldn’t even think of hitting on a single dude buying stuff with his baby mama. I also give Mona a side eye for continuing to date Ross after she found out he’d knocked up Rachel.

Yeah. With the population of NYC being 10 million or whatever, why are you using your job as a baby goods shop clerk to hit on new dads?  It's weird.  

Edited by Ms Blue Jay
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Because he was buying dinosaur stuff and she liked dinosaurs and thought he was nice? I mean, agree to disagree on how brazen it was, but it doesn't justify the nasty shit Rachel said about her, at times in her presence. Just because you want your baby's father to be available during your pregnancy (obviously understandable), doesn't mean you get to call women who flirt with him slut or whore or bitch.

Again, I like Rachel overall. It's just interesting to me how when the bad stuff Rachel does regarding her and Ross' relationship is brought up, there's always an excuse or justification.

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14 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Yeah. With the population of NYC being 10 million or whatever, why are you using your job as a baby goods shop clerk to hit on new dads?  It's weird.  

What's also weird is why she didn't cut out and run when she went to the apartment and Ross said something about a whip (OK, that in and of itself wasn't so bad once he explained it was because of her Indiana Jones joke earlier), and said he was just interested in normal sex, not S&M (or whatever).  And with Rachel calling her a horny bitch in the background, who wants to deal with all that crazy?

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36 minutes ago, Katy M said:

What's also weird is why she didn't cut out and run when she went to the apartment and Ross said something about a whip (OK, that in and of itself wasn't so bad once he explained it was because of her Indiana Jones joke earlier), and said he was just interested in normal sex, not S&M (or whatever).  And with Rachel calling her a horny bitch in the background, who wants to deal with all that crazy?

It's kind of a wonder sometimes how the six did as well as they did romantically, considering all of their...eccentricities. There probably should have been a lot more cutting and running XD 

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43 minutes ago, Katy M said:

What's also weird is why she didn't cut out and run when she went to the apartment and Ross said something about a whip (OK, that in and of itself wasn't so bad once he explained it was because of her Indiana Jones joke earlier), and said he was just interested in normal sex, not S&M (or whatever).  And with Rachel calling her a horny bitch in the background, who wants to deal with all that crazy?

It's a lot of obstacles to go through.... just to date....... Ross.

Rachel:  I'm not vanilla!  I got drunk, and married in Vegas!
Phoebe:  ...... to Ross.

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3 hours ago, kariyaki said:

I also give Mona a side eye for continuing to date Ross after she found out he’d knocked up Rachel.

As I recall, so did Ross eventually.

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On 4/6/2021 at 5:13 PM, Hiyo said:

Hey, at least Monica made good use of that Quartet, so not a total waste.

No one likes a butt munch.

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I love David Schwimmer’s delivery of his line when he says Emily destroyed and mailed back the roses he sent her, but it’s not a total loss because Monica can use them to make “POTPOURRI!”  He should have won an Emmy for his portrayal.

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23 minutes ago, Crs97 said:

I love David Schwimmer’s delivery of his line when he says Emily destroyed and mailed back the roses he sent her, but it’s not a total loss because Monica can use them to make “POTPOURRI!”  

I have always loved that line too! And these:

Ross: I think I'm gonna go wander out in the rain for a while.

Rachel: But it's not raining.

Ross: I can't catch a break!

12 hours ago, kiddo82 said:

No one likes a butt munch.

🎶"And you're also bad in BEEEEEEEEEEEEHD!"🎶

 

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On 4/8/2021 at 2:16 PM, mojoween said:

Also Phoebe punching Mike’s dad is so stupid.

That whole but of her meeting his parents was stupid - I always judged him after that for not dumping her immediately 😄 

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46 minutes ago, princelina said:

That whole but of her meeting his parents was stupid - I always judged him after that for not dumping her immediately 😄 

Awwwwwww I love that segment.

Phoebe in a British accent:  "Where does everyone summer?"

Mike's Dad:  "No.  No.  It's fine.  Why wouldn't you punch me in the stomach?"

Edited by Ms Blue Jay
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53 minutes ago, princelina said:

That whole but of her meeting his parents was stupid - I always judged him after that for not dumping her immediately 😄 

Though I did think her excited "I'm wearing pantyhose!" when Mike opened the door was pretty cute.

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I just remembered something. They make fun of Ross for marrying so many times but was Phoebe married a few times before Mike? There was the figure skater but did she marry a mystery guy in Vegas? When she said Ross and Rachel were only legally married in Vegas and the others told her they were married everywhere, she got this "on no" look on her face. 

Did that even happen or am I mixing up shows?

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36 minutes ago, Snow Apple said:

I just remembered something. They make fun of Ross for marrying so many times but was Phoebe married a few times before Mike? There was the figure skater but did she marry a mystery guy in Vegas? When she said Ross and Rachel were only legally married in Vegas and the others told her they were married everywhere, she got this "on no" look on her face. 

Did that even happen or am I mixing up shows?

No, you’re not mixing up shows. The “uh-oh” was never explained, whether it was her or someone she knew

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42 minutes ago, Snow Apple said:

I just remembered something. They make fun of Ross for marrying so many times but was Phoebe married a few times before Mike? There was the figure skater but did she marry a mystery guy in Vegas? When she said Ross and Rachel were only legally married in Vegas and the others told her they were married everywhere, she got this "on no" look on her face. 

Did that even happen or am I mixing up shows?

She did get an oh no look, but it's possible, I suppose, that she could just be worried because she was passing that info on to lots of people. If she got married in Vegas, she's probably still married and committing bigamy with Mike, because she just shrugged her shoulders and said oh well when corrected about it being everywhere.

 

On 4/9/2021 at 4:25 PM, princelina said:

That whole but of her meeting his parents was stupid - I always judged him after that for not dumping her immediately 😄 

Me, too.  She punched his father.  told his mother about their sex life.  Described a pimp spitting in her mouth.  Went to the bathroom (or maybe threw up) in a closet. And Mike judged his parents or being snobs?  I don't think they disliked her because she was from the wrong side of the tracks, but because she was insane and didn't know how to act like a normal person.

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