Friends - General Discussion

[Jax7917]

On 10/21/2019 at 12:19 PM, deaja said:

She also was pretty awful to Bonnie, in my opinion.

Yeah but that was more of a joke relationship . She was annoying when it came to Julie and Emily . In fact , the whole group was ridiculous about Emily . I don’t know how she came off as the bad guy . 

[Jax7917]

It’s a small thing , but the continuity with Chandler liking / not liking sports makes no sense . In the early seasons , they show him being very into sports and loves going to games , etc .. but in later seasons he pretends to know what’s going on In the games and pretends to be interested in sports .. just found it weird . 
 

also , rachels obsession with Joshua made no sense .. I know looks are subjective but the show made it like he was a dream boat and I thought they could have casted a better looking guy for how gorgeous she supposedly thought he was 

Edited October 23, 2019 by Jaclyn88

[Madding crowd]

He was Aniston’s boyfriend at the time so that is likely why he was cast. I thought he was good looking but had kind of a lame personality. 

[Mr. Meatball Man]

4 hours ago, Jaclyn88 said:

It’s a small thing , but the continuity with Chandler liking / not liking sports makes no sense . In the early seasons , they show him being very into sports and loves going to games , etc .. but in later seasons he pretends to know what’s going on In the games and pretends to be interested in sports .. just found it weird . 
 

also , rachels obsession with Joshua made no sense .. I know looks are subjective but the show made it like he was a dream boat and I thought they could have casted a better looking guy for how gorgeous she supposedly thought he was 

I think the whole thing with Chandler not liking sports in the later seasons was just the writers trying to make him more effeminate. That's how we got quotes like "Chandler has two copies of Annie!" and "Chandler gets pedicures." But you run the risk of it not making sense, like Rachel knowing who Paul O'Neill is but Chandler doesn't because he doesn't watch ESPN.

Also, this is unrelated, but Joey trying to write an adoption letter for Chandler and Monica is one of the worst plots ever done on the show. Two years before that, he officiated their wedding. Now, he's never heard of the word "thesaurus" and literally has the writing abilities of a child.

They really did a number on the characters' personalities in the later seasons. 

[blondiec0332]

7 hours ago, Mr. Meatball Man said:

They really did a number on the characters' personalities in the later seasons. 

I  think by that point the writers were writing plots instead of stories. A specific plot could be used on different shows but a story is part of a specific show.  I hope I'm explaining it well.

[Jax7917]

1 hour ago, blondiec0332 said:

I  think by that point the writers were writing plots instead of stories. A specific plot could be used on different shows but a story is part of a specific show.  I hope I'm explaining it well.

sitcoms tend to be more plotty than a continuing story, but I do see what you're saying,. Generally, the only stories that stay consistent for a little while are when it comes to main romantic relationships on a show. I think Friends did a good job of doing both.. but I do agree that in later seasons, the story lines weren't as well written and the characters were annoying.

[jalady]

20 hours ago, Jaclyn88 said:

also , rachels obsession with Joshua made no sense .. I know looks are subjective but the show made it like he was a dream boat and I thought they could have casted a better looking guy for how gorgeous she supposedly thought he was 

Preach!

18 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

He was Aniston’s boyfriend at the time so that is likely why he was cast. I thought he was good looking but had kind of a lame personality. 

Well, then they could have made Rachel think he was really nice or really smart or really anything except gorgeous, LOL.

[voiceover]

Here's a little burp of trivia that occurred to me while watching "TOW the Birth Mother" tonight:

The first Big News/Big Surprise of the Chandler/Monica relationship was Monica proposing to Chandler.

After that, it was always Chandler: breaking the bad news about the fertility tests, announcing that he'd talked Erica into changing her mind, telling Monica that their offer on the house had been accepted.  

I'm sure I'm not the first one to make this connection, since I feel dumb that it took me all these years.  I suppose they've stuck in my mind like this (not coming together) because the first three are three of my favorite moments.  The last I include here because the pattern stuck.

[Crs97]

I thought the first big surprise was their being in bed the morning of Ross’ wedding.  Otherwise, interesting pattern I never noticed before.

Edited October 26, 2019 by Crs97

[Chas411]

Onto season 8 of my rewatch and loving pregnant Rachel but HATING the Joey/Rachel storyline which has just started. I swore I’d get through it all but this is tough. While the beginning of the plot was the only part that made sense as I could see how Joey would end up falling for Rachel I still am so uncomfortable through it all. I can’t handle Matt Le Blancs SERIOUS acting voice.

Still better than season 9 though when they had to completely dumb Rachel down to try justify her sudden feelings.

[slf]

It always seemed to me that Ross was more into Rachel, and more often, than she was into him unless he was involved with someone else. And I think that was owed to not really getting past their breakup; she seemed to struggle with seeing him do better with other women than he did with her and maybe figured that when Ross finally worked thru his issues it would be "their time".

[Jax7917]

6 hours ago, slf said:

It always seemed to me that Ross was more into Rachel, and more often, than she was into him unless he was involved with someone else. And I think that was owed to not really getting past their breakup; she seemed to struggle with seeing him do better with other women than he did with her and maybe figured that when Ross finally worked thru his issues it would be "their time".

I actually always thought the opposite . Ross only seemed into Rachel before he had her and seemed to be more of a high school obsession that resurfaced once he was single again and she joined their group . But once he met Emily and from then on , she always seemed way more into him than he was her . He only randomly wanted her again during the last episode 

[slf]

2 hours ago, Jaclyn88 said:

I actually always thought the opposite . Ross only seemed into Rachel before he had her and seemed to be more of a high school obsession that resurfaced once he was single again and she joined their group . But once he met Emily and from then on , she always seemed way more into him than he was her . He only randomly wanted her again during the last episode 

I mean, he said her name at the altar (and I don't buy the 'he had just seen her' excuse because she was not the last person he saw before he looked at Emily, a, and b, that makes zero sense), kept referring to her as his wife despite being married to Emily, he wanted to try to make the Vegas marriage work and I don't believe it was just because he didn't want another divorce, admitting that they both figured that if they got married it would be the one that stuck, etc. I think there were times when they were into other people or super annoyed with each other, but overall I'd say they were always into each other but Ross moreso. Like, there's being jealous when your ex moves on and then there's repeatedly referring to them as your spouse. 

Edited October 28, 2019 by slf

[Chas411]

I don’t know I think that Rachel was just as into Ross. As I said above I’m doing my Season 8 rewatch and by the end of that season I think it’s pretty clear Rachel is into Ross. Especially in the last few episodes. I think if Ross had actually come out and said he still loved her or vice versa then they would have reunited pretty promptly. I just think that as always both were too stubborn to make the first move or commitment to working on things.

Looking back while the Joey Love for Rachel is still depressing to watch in season 8 it’s still easy to see how he ended up falling for her (I don’t think it was love, I think he thought it was but was ultimately a massive crush). Her reciprocating his feelings in season 9 though make ZERO sense. It just didn’t fit at all and I hate how unlikeable she is during that time. I also hate how they dumbed her down in order to make them seem like a good match.

[Nordly Beaumont]

"Quick like a cat! Quick like a cat!" Chandler said it - but when? Why? Goin' crazy here! Help me!!

[Bort]

11 minutes ago, Nordly Beaumont said:

"Quick like a cat! Quick like a cat!" Chandler said it - but when? Why? Goin' crazy here! Help me!!

It’s from the hug and roll episode when Chandler was trying to yank his arm out from under Janice. 

[Nordly Beaumont]

18 minutes ago, kariyaki said:

It’s from the hug and roll episode when Chandler was trying to yank his arm out from under Janice. 

Yes!! Oh, thank you - I'll be able to sleep tonight now!

[Rescue Mama]

On 10/15/2019 at 5:48 PM, helenamonster said:

I'M NOT CRYING YOU'RE CRYING

Crying why?  What am I missing?

[Jax7917]

I was just watching the London episodes, and I thought Emily was so wrong about postponing the wedding because the venue she wanted was getting knocked down.  Half the people at the wedding flew to London, took time off, spent all that money on the flight... and she wanted to cancel it and said "oh, people will understand. It's our wedding and it needs to be perfect." Um, I would have flipped out if I was a guest and I wouldn't come back. And then Monica made it seem like Ross was wrong for being considerate of other people. 

[blondiec0332]

48 minutes ago, Jaclyn88 said:

I was just watching the London episodes, and I thought Emily was so wrong about postponing the wedding because the venue she wanted was getting knocked down.  Half the people at the wedding flew to London, took time off, spent all that money on the flight... and she wanted to cancel it and said "oh, people will understand. It's our wedding and it needs to be perfect."

I was never an Emily fan. Even if there wasn't a Ross/Rachel history I still wouldn't have liked her.  I'm sure the writers did it intentionally but she never fit in with the group. I found her snobby and lacking a sense of humor. Contrast her to Julie who I found nice and easily fit in with the group.  

Edited November 1, 2019 by blondiec0332

[Jax7917]

2 hours ago, blondiec0332 said:

I was never an Emily fan. Even if there wasn't a Ross/Rachel history I still wouldn't have liked her.  I'm sure the writers did it intentionally but she never fit in with the group. I found her snobby and lacking a sense of humor. Contrast her to Julie who I found nice and easily fit in with the group.  

I didn't care for her much, but their first couple of episodes together where they were just dating, Ross looked happier than he ever did with Rachel. He seemed much more relaxed with her and less angsty/crazy. I read that Emily's character was supposed to last longer on the show but she didn't want to move to the US permanently. Something along those lines. They gave Ross some good relationships, but they never gave Rachel anything you can take seriously. Her relationships were all jokes besides Ross. 

[blondiec0332]

Just now, Jaclyn88 said:

They gave Ross some good relationships, but they never gave Rachel anything you can take seriously. Her relationships were all jokes besides Ross. 

I agree with that. The only guy she dated for any length of time other than Ross was Tag.  

[Jax7917]

8 hours ago, blondiec0332 said:

I agree with that. The only guy she dated for any length of time other than Ross was Tag.  

Also , she was obsessed with Joshua until she actually got him . Once they started dating , she wasn’t really interested . 
They should have given her another relationship . The show lasted 10 seasons , it’s not like it was only 4 seasons . They could’ve given her someone more serious . Even ross’ relationship with Elizabeth was more serious than any of Rachel’s 

[Chas411]

Just watched the episode where Rachel kisses Gavin and really think Rachel was a jerk. As usual Rosss overreaction made her come off as the more innocent one but given she was living with him and they had a 4 month old who they were raising together while experiencing fuzzy feelings for each other I think it was lame that she was so into Gavin without considering Ross until after they’d kissed.

The whole episode frustrates me from Rachel’s behaviour to Ross reaction to Rachel going back to Joey. Just ugh. 

Also I didn’t think Ross hiding the message from her was the worst thing ever. I think her giving out her number was bad form anyway. She didn’t get called on any of that though while Ross got the blame for all of it. 

and then started the whole Rachel/Joey saga..

Edited November 3, 2019 by Chas411

[Bort]

55 minutes ago, Chas411 said:

I didn’t think Ross hiding the message from her was the worst thing ever.

It goes back to the controlling problems Ross had. He did the same thing in the prom video episode. Took a phone message from a guy, then didn't give it to Rachel (he put it in the cabinet above the fridge). I bet it was still up there until Monica and Chandler moved out.

[slf]

On 10/8/2019 at 2:39 PM, MadyGirl1987 said:

Seriously, her career was just a guide on what not to do in the workplace. Especially Tag(whole thing about hiring someone she wanted to be with is just ick.), spreading rumors about an affair with Ralph Lauren and spreading rumors her boss wanted to buy her baby. Any of those would have been cause for firing or at the least disciplinary action.

Honestly, I'm not sure how any of them remained employed. Ross flipping out over a sandwich and getting caught naked in a display with his girlfriend, Chandler not firing the woman he was supposed to then going out with her and telling people she was nuts...did Monica do inappropriate things? Phoebe seemed okay at her massage job but was a nightmare as a coffeehouse singer. Joey actually seemed to have a pretty plausable career trajectory on the show considering he was a bad actor and a dimwit.

I love the actor who played Ross' lawyer when he was trying to get divorced from Rachel. "Of course you did", lmao.

[Chas411]

“Why don’t you tell me what happened” - his deadpan line delivery was excellent. 

Edited November 6, 2019 by Chas411

[Nordly Beaumont]

That was Ron Glass from Barney Miller. He always had great delivery!

[Bort]

2 hours ago, slf said:

did Monica do inappropriate things?

Monica actually did get fired for accidentally taking a kickback.

[chitowngirl]

And Phoebe got fired for “whorish” behavior.

[Madding crowd]

Then there was the time Phoebe slipped her client a little something so he would be out for awhile and she could attend Emma’s first birthday party.

[Crs97]

I love Ron Glass!  I hated Rachel that entire storyline, from storming into Ross’ class to yell at him in front of his students all the way to lying on the annulment firm that Ross was gay and a heroin/crack addict and then admit she was the one who pushed for them to get married in the first place.  She was the worst.

It is ironic that Monica was fired for not knowing company policy on her first day while the rest kept their jobs for so long.

[Mr. Meatball Man]

Are there any episodes where you guys only care about one plot, and not the other two? 

TOW They're Going to Party is always the first episode that comes to my mind. I love the Ross/Chandler/Joey plot. It might be one of my favorites in the whole series because it's not really about anything, just them trying to party and enjoy themselves. But the other two plots bring the episode down. I never cared about Rachel's plot, and the Monica/Phoebe one is slightly better but it's not that interesting either. 

[WendyCR72]

13 minutes ago, Mr. Meatball Man said:

Are there any episodes where you guys only care about one plot, and not the other two? 

TOW They're Going to Party is always the first episode that comes to my mind. I love the Ross/Chandler/Joey plot. It might be one of my favorites in the whole series because it's not really about anything, just them trying to party and enjoy themselves. But the other two plots bring the episode down. I never cared about Rachel's plot, and the Monica/Phoebe one is slightly better but it's not that interesting either. 

TOW The Embryos, ironically titled, was one where I only cared about the game/bet/switching of apartments! Couldn't care less about Frank and Alice's embryos and whether Phoebe would be pregnant or not (though I knew she would be since Lisa Kudrow was in real life!).

[slf]

23 hours ago, Crs97 said:

I love Ron Glass!  I hated Rachel that entire storyline, from storming into Ross’ class to yell at him in front of his students all the way to lying on the annulment firm that Ross was gay and a heroin/crack addict and then admit she was the one who pushed for them to get married in the first place.  She was the worst.

I had no problem with any of that and not just because Ross is my least favorite of the core six. He lied about them being married. That's a pretty big damn thing to lie about. Rachel having suggested they get married while blitzed isn't the same. 

[Bort]

2 minutes ago, slf said:

I had no problem with any of that and not just because Ross is my least favorite of the core six. He lied about them being married. That's a pretty big damn thing to lie about. Rachel having suggested they get married while blitzed isn't the same. 

For months! To the point that Ross ended up being married to Rachel longer than he was married to Emily.

[Crs97]

So that makes it okay to falsify a legal document stating Ross is a drug user?  She should have had charges brought against her, for that and for being so incredibly stupid to think she didn’t have to sign anything for an annulment to go through! 

[WendyCR72]

9 hours ago, Crs97 said:

So that makes it okay to falsify a legal document stating Ross is a drug user?  She should have had charges brought against her, for that and for being so incredibly stupid to think she didn’t have to sign anything for an annulment to go through! 

Just more fodder that these two were toxic together. Monica could become annoying at times, but I'll take her and Chandler's relationship any day of the week and twice on Sundays over what Ross and Rachel became. Still say they probably split again maybe a month after Rachel got off the plane.

Ross and Rachel should have just remained friends and co-parented together. But that's only my take.

[slf]

10 hours ago, Crs97 said:

So that makes it okay to falsify a legal document stating Ross is a drug user?  She should have had charges brought against her, for that and for being so incredibly stupid to think she didn’t have to sign anything for an annulment to go through! 

Yes, it does. Because that was nothing, just justifiable anger on her part. There would have been no consequences for Ross other than what they wanted: the annulment. The idea that Rachel should have had charges brought against her is ludicrous. As is the idea that Ross was some kind of victim in this situation: one where he lied, claimed to have gotten an annulment he did not thus forcing a woman to stay in a legally-binding marriage she did not want to be in, then repeatedly attempted to manipulate their relationship back into being a romantic one. Ross was unhinged in that arc. It's played for laughs but it's creepy af and easily one of the most inexcusable things Ross ever did. And while I doubt you could bring charges in that situation, if charges should have been brought against one of them then it should have been Ross.

[Crs97]

Not ludicrous.  She committed perjury.

[slf]

7 minutes ago, Crs97 said:

Not ludicrous.  She committed perjury.

If Rachel filled out any forms during her marriage to Ross and put that she was single rather than married she committed a crime then, too. Whose fault would that be? If Rachel had wanted to she probably would have been able to get a restraining order against Ross had she tried, based on the things he did.

Ross' actions during that story were like the first half of an episode of Forensic Files.

Edited November 10, 2019 by slf

[Crs97]

2 hours ago, slf said:

If Rachel filled out any forms during her marriage to Ross and put that she was single rather than married she committed a crime then, too.

That isn’t how the legal system works.  She truly believed she was single, and most forms aren’t sworn statements.  When she completed the legal document for the annulment, she knew she was lying.  Judges don’t like having their time wasted, and they especially hate being lied to.  When you lie under oath, that’s perjury.

Ross is awful and their relationship was toxic, but this idea that only Ross is to blame is simply not true.  She was  just as awful!

[slf]

2 hours ago, Crs97 said:

That isn’t how the legal system works.  She truly believed she was single, and most forms aren’t sworn statements.  When she completed the legal document for the annulment, she knew she was lying.  Judges don’t like having their time wasted, and they especially hate being lied to.  When you lie under oath, that’s perjury.

Ross is awful and their relationship was toxic, but this idea that only Ross is to blame is simply not true.  She was  just as awful!

I should clarify I was being sarcastic. The idea that in that whole bordeline psycho mess it was Rachel telling obvious and ridiculous lies in the annulment papers that was the truly offensive action and not, y'know, the man disregarding the woman's feelings and desires and forcing her to remain married to him. Like, he forced her to stay married to him by exploiting her trust and lying to her for months. Why did I just call that "borderline psycho"? That is literally insane and quite possibly the most pathetic thing any character on that show ever did.

Ross was absolutely to blame for that mess and Rachel was in no way just as awful. The show portrayed Ross as completely off the rails, having every character mock him, call him nuts, and even had his divorce lawyer tell him to get some therapy. Ross' actions were intentionally written as bonkers and inexcusable.

If some guy did that to either of my sisters I'd tell them to hire a good lawyer, file for a restraining order, and buy some bear mace and a home security system.

[Crs97]

Agree to disagree that she has no responsibility for the mess they created.

Moving on, one of the episodes that consistently makes me laugh is the Holiday Armadillo.  Joey walking in as Superman was so random and hilarious, and I can totally picture him telling Ben Superman saved the Maccabees.  I would have loved to be in the writing room as they debated costumes.

[Nordly Beaumont]

I've reluctantly accepted that we are barreling into the holiday season and now I'm all excited to watch the Thanksgiving episodes. Part of me wants to go ahead and watch them now, but I'm going to try to be strong and wait until it's really Thanksgiving!

[LexieLily]

https://slate.com/culture/2019/11/friends-reunion-special-hbo-max-unscripted.html

[voiceover]

So, in a random fit of... randomness...I just typed in "Matthew and Courteney" and, et voila!  Gossip pages reporting today that Matthew has "always been in love" with her.

Oh maaaaaaannnnnn!!!  **I knew it!!!***  Somewhere in the archived pages of this site are my spec posts that this was true.  Never have been an "IRL shipper" (characters, sure), but watching him with her all those years just made me wonder.  Esp when he dated -- but never married -- after the show was over.

I was slightly abashed by my own theory but now feel ridiculously vindicated.  And also a little bit like I'm 14 again.

[Chas411]

Just finished season 9 and started season 10. I find Rachel so unbelievably I likeable in these episodes. She’s so rude to both Ross at the conference in Barbados despite only being there because of him. 
 

While Joey at least considers and wants to clear things with Ross after they kiss she couldn’t give a shit. “We haven’t dated in like six years” - you just had a baby, lived together and considered getting back together this year though. 

She just comes off as selfish and dumb throughout the whole thing which I didn’t think she was before. Her laughing at the homo erecto joke is so embarrassing and was clearly just lack of imagination from the writers in trying to tell the audience that Joey/Rachel were compatible.

Also she’s such a rude bitch to Charlie it’s just annoying. I know this was a typical trait with Rachel whenever she was threatened by new girls but I think because I bought her love for Ross more I was able to blow by her treatment of Julie and to a lesser extent Emily. With Charlie though she’s just meaner and nastier. 

The writing during this storyline really Took a hit. I can’t understand how anyone thought it was a good idea. 

[Mr. Meatball Man]

The whole Joey/Rachel thing was a mess after season eight. I really liked Joey falling in love with her because it showed a new side of him and allowed him to be more than just the idiot. Plus, it made sense that Joey would have those deep feelings for her because they were already close friends.

I wasn't even opposed to Rachel falling for Joey, or the idea of it. By season nine, Ross and Rachel was played out and they didn't even trust each other. But the way Rachel fell for him was ridiculous. She was never really into him, it was just a crush.

Then they have an entire episode about how Ross handles it. Nevermind giving us an episode about what brings Joey and Rachel together, but it's about how Ross is dealing with the whole thing. The only good thing that came out of this was the final scene where Ross finally accepts it, and even states that he hasn't been with Rachel for years. It's about as honest, realistic, and self-aware as Friends can be. 

Then one episode later, Joey and Rachel break up because they're no longer attracted to each other, and it's never brought up again other than a joke in one episode. Then they turn Joey into someone who needs a helmet to eat soup, and Rachel magically falls in love with Ross again, who magically falls in love with her again. 

[Bort]

34 minutes ago, Mr. Meatball Man said:

Then they have an entire episode about how Ross handles it.

I kind of love that episode.

.