Friends - General Discussion

[Crs97]

I think what bothers me most is that she gets rewarded with extra maternity leave, when really she should have been fired.  I guess if she didn’t get fired for Tag’s review (that no one should have ever believed was written by Tag) then all bets are off.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Yeah, she was kind of treated like a princess at that job, wasn't she?  I'm always for more maternity leave though, so eh.

Edited January 29, 2023 by Ms Blue Jay

[Danny Franks]

12 minutes ago, Crs97 said:

I think what bothers me most is that she gets rewarded with extra maternity leave, when really she should have been fired.  I guess if she didn’t get fired for Tag’s review (that no one should have ever believed was written by Tag) then all bets are off.

That was typical of most of their job related stories, really. None of them behaved professionally.

Chandler used to talk about doing no work, took absolutely nothing seriously and acted like he didn't even know what his job was. He had an affair with a subordinate then lied to everyone, including her, to ensure she stayed in her job.

Joey slept with all the female extras on Dool.

Ross slept with a student, changed student grades to suit himself, used museum facilities out of hours (including having sex in an exhibit).

Phoebe sexually assaulted one of her customers (possibly more than one, I can't recall).

The most annoying thing about Monica's job storylines was when she didn't just fire all the restaurant staff who were bullying her even though she was the boss. She had to fake hire Joey just to fire him, instead of firing one of the people who was committing genuinely fireable offences.

That, plus the nonsense over Rachel being fired for taking a job interview just confirmed that none of the Friends writers ever had to work in the real world at all.

[partofme]

36 minutes ago, Crs97 said:

I think what bothers me most is that she gets rewarded with extra maternity leave, when really she should have been fired.  I guess if she didn’t get fired for Tag’s review (that no one should have ever believed was written by Tag) then all bets are off.

Rachel should never have been hired in the first place after that interview where she kissed him and then came back and accidentally touched him.   There were a million times she should have been fired. 

[HawkeyeLo]

2 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

It's soooooooo dumb, I agree, but I do like

Rachel:  Wow, you look big.
Joey:  Thanks, I've been working out.  Hey, is it obvious that I'm wearing 6 sweaters?
Rachel:  Yeah.  But it's not obvious why.

I don't know, Rachel and Joey are pretty cute together in this (incredibly stupid) subplot.

Also, it has one of my favorite background reaction shots ever: when Chandler says, “The best reason to get married is pregnancy” and Rachel is like, OMG.
 

I could care less about the Joey storyline but I love the episode simply for that. I crack up every time.

[Ms Blue Jay]

LOL that is so good.

35 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

That was typical of most of their job related stories, really. None of them behaved professionally.

Chandler used to talk about doing no work, took absolutely nothing seriously and acted like he didn't even know what his job was. He had an affair with a subordinate then lied to everyone, including her, to ensure she stayed in her job.

Joey slept with all the female extras on Dool.

Ross slept with a student, changed student grades to suit himself, used museum facilities out of hours (including having sex in an exhibit).

Phoebe sexually assaulted one of her customers (possibly more than one, I can't recall).

The most annoying thing about Monica's job storylines was when she didn't just fire all the restaurant staff who were bullying her even though she was the boss. She had to fake hire Joey just to fire him, instead of firing one of the people who was committing genuinely fireable offences.

That, plus the nonsense over Rachel being fired for taking a job interview just confirmed that none of the Friends writers ever had to work in the real world at all.

Some of this stuff is extremely realistic, like professors trying to sleep with their students.  Chandler's workplace stuff was insanely realistic to me, especially his boss offering him more and more money to stay.  The movie "Office Space" depicted this type of cronyism and favouritism well too.  Workplaces aren't a meritocracy.  It's all politics.  I agree that the Phoebe stuff and the Monica stuff is beyond the pale but the rest, I think is so realistic.  We all know actors sleep with other actors, that's no surprise there.  And I have relatives in the fashion industry and there's always complaints that Rachel wouldn't be successful, but she would be.  She definitely would.  People expect the fashion industry to be like.......... what's a meritocracy anyways? Science?  Math?  I don't know.  But definitely not fashion.  Any art related industry like fashion or Hollywood is going to be extremely subjective and "hard work" and "experience" is not always going to be the great decider.

Edited January 29, 2023 by Ms Blue Jay

[voiceover]

“TOW the Girl Who Hits Joey” is one of my favorites, because it’s got one of my favorite scenes: at the end, when Chandler runs in to propose to Monica.

All seven had memorable moments: Rachel’s “Ohhhh…I can’t not watch this!”;  Phoebe’s “Sure, of course” reax to Rachel at Chandler’s “pregnancy” line;  Ross’s “Still…cheap shot!” and Joey agreeing; Chandler’s coda “…or you would’ve seen a big Chandler-shaped hole in that door”…though the topper was Monica’s “Two divorces and Joey?!?”, which is my favorite Monica line of the series.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Season 5 is just my favourite, I wore the DVD case out, so even the worst of it is like Citizen Kane compared to Season 10.

[Mr. Meatball Man]

@Ms Blue Jay

It's the Jay-Z effect. Think of how some popular, successful people are really shy and aren't charismatic outside of what they do. Rachel could be one of those people, especially because she's had several socially inept moments. 

Chandler has a line that I think about all the time: "Some of us have to get up early and go to work! He does not know that I am not some of us." 

I wish @Danny Franks had the opportunity to write a Friends episode. I wonder what characters he would focus on, what he would leave out. 

I would definitely scrap the plot where Phoebe becomes a creepy stalker in an attempt to get Sting tickets. Might be my number one choice if I ignore the last two seasons. "ROSS CAN GET ME THE TICKETS!" Shut the fuck up. Friends wasn't absurd enough to pull off something like this. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

Jay-Z is shy and not charismatic?  Haha. Sorry.  Not buying it. 😉

I just can't abide rewriting history about one of my favourite characters.  Jennifer Aniston can be kind of awkward sure, but I don't think Rachel was exactly written that way.  That "Gucci" moment was just bad writing in my opinion.

Quote

She is described as being the most popular girl in her high school and was a head cheerleader, as well as class president and prom queen. 

 

Edited January 30, 2023 by Ms Blue Jay

[Mr. Meatball Man]

8 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Jay-Z is shy and not charismatic?  Haha. Sorry.  Not buying it. 😉

I just can't abide rewriting history about one of my favourite characters.  Jennifer Aniston can be kind of awkward sure, but I don't think Rachel was exactly written that way.  That "Gucci" moment was just bad writing in my opinion.

 

You've never watched any of his interviews? His personality outside of the music is a lot more reserved and soft-spoken. You wouldn't think it's the same guy because he doesn't have that same charisma. A lot of times when he does interviews, he comes off like he's about to blink three times to indicate he's in trouble. 

There are other examples of Rachel being awkward that I can think of:

-Everything having to do with Joshua. Everything. TOW the Fake Party is probably her worst characterization in the entire series. 

-Her job interview with Ralph Lauren and everything afterwards.

-Her laughing on her first date with Ross, along with the slapping on her first date with Joey.

-Not shutting up when Ross catches her with Joey.

Hell, I was watching TOW with the Boob Job yesterday and not only did she not know there was a hardware store down the street, she admitted to not knowing how to use chopsticks. Rachel was surprisingly self-deprecating and lacked awareness of what was going on at times. It's not a bad thing. It honestly makes her more likable and realistic. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

I agree to disagree that the Gucci line was good writing. It was bad, and it made no sense.

[Katy M]

With Rachel they seem to go back and forth on how smart she's supposed to be.

On the not so bright side:

1. Gucky
2. Laughing at homo or erectus or whatever during Ross's speech.
3. Falling for Phoebe's line that there are cyborgs in Jane Eyre.  Especially after the teacher suggested feminism when she said the book was ahead of its time.
4. Not knowing how health insurance worked when she thought she could just check yes at the ER.
5. Writing a fake evaluation for Tag and then giving it to him, marked personal.

On the brighter side:

1. Managed to hold down jobs that look like they have a lot of responsibility even though she does stuff that one would think would get her fired.  She must be good.
2. Initiated a discussion about the Korean War.

[Ms Blue Jay]

I'm sure I've talked about the PIVOT episode before because it's either my 1 or 2 fave but a throwaway line I really like is upon Rachel arriving to help Ross move the couch:

Rachel:  I thought you said that there's an elevator in your building?
Ross:  Yes I did, but there isn't........

I can't seem to find it on YouTube, so I wonder if it's one of those deleted scenes on my DVDs.

Also Chandler's "Hey"  and everything comes after it is obviously magical.

 

[Mr. Meatball Man]

2 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I'm sure I've talked about the PIVOT episode before because it's either my 1 or 2 fave but a throwaway line I really like is upon Rachel arriving to help Ross move the couch:

Rachel:  I thought you said that there's an elevator in your building?
Ross:  Yes I did, but there isn't........

I can't seem to find it on YouTube, so I wonder if it's one of those deleted scenes on my DVDs.

Also Chandler's "Hey"  and everything comes after it is obviously magical.

 

 

I think that's a syndication cut because I have no memory of Rachel or Ross saying those lines. 

It makes me wonder what it would take for them to release the original versions of every episode as they aired on NBC and put them on Blu-Ray or streaming. Kevin S. Bright mentioned something about why that's not possible, but I forgot what he said. 

[Bort]

27 minutes ago, Mr. Meatball Man said:

It makes me wonder what it would take for them to release the original versions of every episode as they aired on NBC and put them on Blu-Ray or streaming. Kevin S. Bright mentioned something about why that's not possible, but I forgot what he said. 

What’s on HBO Max to stream is how it aired on NBC. The DVDs have extra scenes that didn’t air.

[Mr. Meatball Man]

16 hours ago, kariyaki said:

What’s on HBO Max to stream is how it aired on NBC. The DVDs have extra scenes that didn’t air.

Right, that's what I'm talking about. The DVD versions with the extra, unaired scenes. Those need to be re-released at some point.

I'm used to the Nick at Nite versions where the characters talk faster and scenes are cut down for Whopper commercials. 

[WendyCR72]

1 hour ago, Mr. Meatball Man said:

Right, that's what I'm talking about. The DVD versions with the extra, unaired scenes. Those need to be re-released at some point.

They won't be. When the Blu-Ray series was first released [the black box edition with the lenticular photo cover - which I have], it was announced that the extra footage - while okay for DVD - was not in good enough shape to be upconverted. So, only the broadcast versions as shown on NBC were suitable for Blu-Ray.

[Ms Blue Jay]

2 hours ago, Mr. Meatball Man said:

Right, that's what I'm talking about. The DVD versions with the extra, unaired scenes. Those need to be re-released at some point.

I'm used to the Nick at Nite versions where the characters talk faster and scenes are cut down for Whopper commercials. 

Some stupid reason about how the deleted scenes aren't in High Def or whatever.  I DON'T CARE..... ADD THEM BACK IN AND RELEASE EVERYTHING.  Who cares if the deleted scenes dip into worse quality than the rest!!!!!!  

[WendyCR72]

8 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Some stupid reason about how the deleted scenes aren't in High Def or whatever.  I DON'T CARE..... ADD THEM BACK IN AND RELEASE EVERYTHING.  Who cares if the deleted scenes dip into worse quality than the rest!!!!!!  

Well, also, if I recall, after those scenes were put on DVD, I believe some are now lost and/or destroyed. I recall hearing that or reading that some years back...

[Ms Blue Jay]

If that's the case then that's an incredibly stupid to way to treat clips of one of the greatest and most beloved shows of all time.

[WendyCR72]

1 minute ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

If that's the case then that's an incredibly stupid to way to treat clips of one of the greatest and most beloved shows of all time.

It happens. And since the material was not on the original episode, chances are, with it being "cutting room floor" material, it was probably figured that there was no reason to preserve it once it was put on the DVDs.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Paying the cast $144 million a year but being so careless with clips of the show just screams dumb to me.

Edited February 3, 2023 by Ms Blue Jay

[mojoween]

This must be something that has previously been edited out for time, because I know I don’t recall this.  Monica made pork pot stickers for Phoebe’s rehearsal, and didn’t tell her in person?  As if I didn’t already loathe Monica Wedding Planner enough.

[Katy M]

Anybody watch Ghosts?

"We were on a respite!!!!" is now a thing.  

[Mr. Meatball Man]

On 2/9/2023 at 3:08 PM, mojoween said:

This must be something that has previously been edited out for time, because I know I don’t recall this.  Monica made pork pot stickers for Phoebe’s rehearsal, and didn’t tell her in person?  As if I didn’t already loathe Monica Wedding Planner enough.

They always show that on Nick at Nite. But as I've stated multiple times before, Monica was horrible in that episode. 

Speaking of Monica, you know which line I always hated? "You're gonna do some feet flirting!" I don't know if the line itself is bad or the delivery is awkward, but it never worked for me. It sucks all the air out of the room whenever I hear it. At least Ross saves the scene when he asks Phoebe about the toe ring.

[mojoween]

7 hours ago, Mr. Meatball Man said:

"You're gonna do some feet flirting!"

Was that after she received the Arthur haircut?  Monica was never my favorite, but for some reason when she had that hair everything she did was annoying.  Like when she was pretending to make out with Kathy and took it too far.  Or when Rachel mentioned “Sophie’s Choice” and Monica replied “you know I never saw that.”  Her line delivery was grating.

[Mr. Meatball Man]

3 hours ago, mojoween said:

Was that after she received the Arthur haircut?  Monica was never my favorite, but for some reason when she had that hair everything she did was annoying.  Like when she was pretending to make out with Kathy and took it too far.  Or when Rachel mentioned “Sophie’s Choice” and Monica replied “you know I never saw that.”  Her line delivery was grating.

Yeah, her hair was really short in season four. I think Monica was at her best in the earlier seasons, when her voice was deeper and she was neurotic, but not to a ridiculous degree. They made her more insane over time, but I feel like that ruined her character. She couldn't handle that as well as Ross did. On top of that, her voice got higher and that made her delivery worse. Like when she says "Chandler has two copies of Annie!" I just feel like slapping her.

Honestly, Ross is the only character who benefitted from becoming more exaggerated. Everyone else just irritated me.

[bluegirl147]

On 2/12/2023 at 12:05 PM, Mr. Meatball Man said:

Honestly, Ross is the only character who benefitted from becoming more exaggerated. Everyone else just irritated me.

I think that might be because David Schwimmer was such a good actor.  It didn't feel like his portrayal was an exaggeration.  But with the others it was like they were acting like crazy Monica or crazy Joey.  With Ross it just seemed like a natural progression of his character.

[Irlandesa]

58 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

I think that might be because David Schwimmer was such a good actor. 

That's my thought as well.  I think his comedic chops are underrated because I feel he squeezed the comedy out of some lines that I normally do not think I'd find funny.

[mojoween]

I mean, who hasn’t set a timer and when it went off, looked around and said “I don’t even know that that’s for!”

[peacheslatour]

We just started watching this show again. We had not seen it since the first run. I forgot how horrible Rachel was, to go to London when Ross was getting married. Granted, Ross is a whiny, possessive rag but still.

[Crs97]

What I thought was interesting is that Monica and Ross are given relationships that could have worked - Monica had Pete and, surprisingly, Richard; Ross had Julie, Emily, and Mona.  Mike and David both made sense for Phoebe.  Did Joey, Chandler, or Rachel have relationships outside the group that you could imagine working out long term?

[WendyCR72]

2 minutes ago, Crs97 said:

What I thought was interesting is that Monica and Ross are given relationships that could have worked - Monica had Pete and, surprisingly, Richard; Ross had Julie, Emily, and Mona.  Mike and David both made sense for Phoebe.  Did Joey, Chandler, or Rachel have relationships outside the group that you could imagine working out long term?

If I could discount how Chandler/Kathy had begun, betraying Joey, maybe they could have? But then, Kathy ALSO cheated on Chandler, so...probably not.

As for Joey, I liked the little bit of depth he had with Kate, but I never saw it as a long-term deal.

[Ms Blue Jay]

11 minutes ago, Crs97 said:

What I thought was interesting is that Monica and Ross are given relationships that could have worked - Monica had Pete and, surprisingly, Richard; Ross had Julie, Emily, and Mona.  Mike and David both made sense for Phoebe.  Did Joey, Chandler, or Rachel have relationships outside the group that you could imagine working out long term?

Older women with younger men are always portrayed as a joke, so I pick Tag for Rachel.  I always want to see more of those types of relationships onscreen.

Joey?  Good question.  Not only did I hate Kate, but I hated Kate specifically for Joey.  Janice was pretty awful, too.  But I think that the acting behind those roles is really what weakened them. Joey had some good love interests on his own sitcom.  Those writers actually gave Joey good room to be an actual love interest and explore relationships.  

It's too bad that Kristin Davis's character didn't seem to like Joey back.  Everyone seemed to like Joey, it's weird that she didn't.  

Chandler ...... hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.  I think somebody's going to say Janice, but I don't know.  

Edited February 15, 2023 by Ms Blue Jay

[christie]

9 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Older women with younger men are always portrayed as a joke, so I pick Tag for Rachel.  I always want to see more of those types of relationships onscreen.

 

Oh God, I hated the Rachel/Tag storyline (not because he was younger (I'm all for women dating attractive, younger men) but because he was her subordinate whom she hired over the qualified woman 'cause she thought he was cute; the whole thing right from the beginning was awful). 

[andidante]

1 hour ago, Crs97 said:

What I thought was interesting is that Monica and Ross are given relationships that could have worked - Monica had Pete and, surprisingly, Richard; Ross had Julie, Emily, and Mona.  Mike and David both made sense for Phoebe.  Did Joey, Chandler, or Rachel have relationships outside the group that you could imagine working out long term?

I liked Monica with Pete and Richard. I thought Ross and Julie were adorable and I liked him with Emily before it all went to crap.

[partofme]

1 hour ago, Crs97 said:

What I thought was interesting is that Monica and Ross are given relationships that could have worked - Monica had Pete and, surprisingly, Richard; Ross had Julie, Emily, and Mona.  Mike and David both made sense for Phoebe.  Did Joey, Chandler, or Rachel have relationships outside the group that you could imagine working out long term?

I could have seen Rachel with Gavin.  I absolutely loved Ross and Emily, she made him tolerable to me.

[Mr. Meatball Man]

3 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Older women with younger men are always portrayed as a joke, so I pick Tag for Rachel.  I always want to see more of those types of relationships onscreen.

Joey?  Good question.  Not only did I hate Kate, but I hated Kate specifically for Joey.  Janice was pretty awful, too.  But I think that the acting behind those roles is really what weakened them. Joey had some good love interests on his own sitcom.  Those writers actually gave Joey good room to be an actual love interest and explore relationships.  

It's too bad that Kristin Davis's character didn't seem to like Joey back.  Everyone seemed to like Joey, it's weird that she didn't.  

Chandler ...... hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.  I think somebody's going to say Janice, but I don't know.  

I always thought Joey was screwed over when it came to relationships. Every time he was interested in a woman beyond sex, she either didn't like him back, turned into someone else, or couldn't commit. It's almost like the show admitting that Joey wasn't meant to have a real relationship, even though he believed he would go the distance if the right woman came along. 

I know Matt LeBlanc and Lisa Kudrow pitched the idea that Joey and Phoebe were having a hidden sexual relationship in the later seasons, but the writers didn't like it. I know this doesn't answer the original question, but Joey and Phoebe made too much sense to not at least give it a shot. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

8 minutes ago, Mr. Meatball Man said:

I always thought Joey was screwed over when it came to relationships. Every time he was interested in a woman beyond sex, she either didn't like him back, turned into someone else, or couldn't commit. It's almost like the show admitting that Joey wasn't meant to have a real relationship, even though he believed he would go the distance if the right woman came along. 

I know Matt LeBlanc and Lisa Kudrow pitched the idea that Joey and Phoebe were having a hidden sexual relationship in the later seasons, but the writers didn't like it. I know this doesn't answer the original question, but Joey and Phoebe made too much sense to not at least give it a shot. 

I pretty much agree with everything you're saying.  I don't LOVE the Phoebe Joey idea, but whatever, I guess it would make some fans happy.

It was weird how the show treated Joey.  He was not really give a chance to evolve whatsoever.  It was devolution if anything.  They kind of tried with the whole Rachel / Joey thing, but I'm on the side of those who feel that was an abomination towards humanity.

Edited February 16, 2023 by Ms Blue Jay

[Snow Apple]

I don't want Joey and Rachel to be end game and I hated it at the time, but now that it's years later, I look back and think they make a better couple than Ross and Rachel. Joey never looked down on or tried to control Rachel. I'm still glad they ended it. I just wish they also completely ended Ross/Rachel too. They seem to get along better as friends and co-parents.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Obviously I totally get that, because Joey was always a great friend to Rachel and very respectful of her.  It's just something about their chemistry (or lack of) just euugggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.  😄

[Llywela]

27 minutes ago, Snow Apple said:

I don't want Joey and Rachel to be end game and I hated it at the time, but now that it's years later, I look back and think they make a better couple than Ross and Rachel. Joey never looked down on or tried to control Rachel. I'm still glad they ended it. I just wish they also completely ended Ross/Rachel too. They seem to get along better as friends and co-parents.

Even at the time, I really enjoyed the build-up of Joey-Rachel. They got on so well and really seemed to get one another, in a way that Rachel and Ross never did. I think if the show had really committed to the relationship, it could have worked because the characters actually were compatible. But the writers were too scared of the die-hard Ross-Rachel shippers, I think, so pulled back on Joey-Rachel the moment it actually turned into a thing. The about-face was so abrupt, it still gives me whiplash even now when I rewatch. All the groundwork is laid, and then the rug gets pulled from under the whole thing, just so the reset button can be pressed and the door left open for Ross-Rachel once again.

[Guest]

Yeah, I thought Joey and Rachel were kind of weird together, but not as weird as the decision to end it as soon as it began.

Ross and Rachel post-breakup were way better than Ross and Rachel together.  I loved a lot of the stuff they did in the vein of "exes who are still friends and later have a child together", with plenty of awkwardness, humor, sometimes anger, and even sweetness. Then they ruined that, too.

[mojoween]

“Is there a phone here, where I can check my messages?”

”Yeah, do you want a quarter?”

Things that you can say out loud today and new adults would say “pardon?”

[peacheslatour]

Ross and Rachel deserved each other in the sense that I wouldn't wish either one of them on anybody else.

[Wildcard]

Quote

Ross and Rachel post-breakup were way better than Ross and Rachel together.  I loved a lot of the stuff they did in the vein of "exes who are still friends and later have a child together", with plenty of awkwardness, humor, sometimes anger, and even sweetness. Then they ruined that, too.

Agreed 100%. Some of my favorite moments are between Rachel and Ross when they are not a couple -  The practical jokes with Ben, the swings, locking Emma in the apartment, and the inappropriate song. 

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, Wildcard said:

Agreed 100%. Some of my favorite moments are between Rachel and Ross when they are not a couple -  The practical jokes with Ben, the swings, locking Emma in the apartment, and the inappropriate song. 

Ross's doomsday scenario based on Rachel's worries is one of the highlights of the whole series. And her response is perfect - it was a great example of neither of them "winning" but just both being allowed to be funny.

In fact, this deserves a visual aid because Ross's expressions and hand gestures are so great:

[mojoween]

I love the little board on the back of Joey’s door (that apparently used to be attached to the wall) and I just noticed that after that guy robbed Joey and Chandler, the board said “THANKS FOR ALL YOUR STUFF”.

[Quof]

Why have I just noticed (in "The One With All the Haste") that Joey and Chandler have 2 microwaves?