All Episodes Talk

[Ms Blue Jay]

I'm seeing this episode in a whole new light now: "A Tsar is Born" the Antiques Roadshow episode.  Obviously, F, N, and M connecting over the show is cute, and Frasier and Niles gliding into the camera frame is funny, but this is one of Frasier and Niles's worst episodes.

The way Frasier treats Roz, judging her for doing online dating and absolutely ruining her chances with a gorgeous man.  He doesn't even feel 1% guilt.  As the Bidwell's man runs away from Roz and Roz chases after him, Frasier doesn't even blink or shrug, just goes back to being a snob with Niles over their imagined Romanov connection.

Then cheating Martin out of $25,000 with their own greed and delusion over the supposed connection and thoughts that they could get more than he could.   Oh, they are just so awful here.  I forgot that they actually used their own money to pay him $30,000, which, okay fine, but it is still just so stupid.  Like when they both spent thousands of dollars on that Dinner with Geniuses.

I'm getting whiplash watching "The Dog that Rocks the Cradle" now, because Frasier is being like the sweetest friend to Roz in this episode.

Edited February 25, 2023 by Ms Blue Jay

[aghst]

Some "superfans" talk about their hopes and expectations for the reboot.

Read in The Guardian: https://apple.news/AaVFFkGnZR12BtOJtshUMoQ

 

Didn't know about Grammar's politics.  Hmm.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Regan is so out of Frasier's league.  I love how Martin "catches" her in the hallway like a fish.  LOL.  And it would be so nice for Niles to be mooning over someone besides Daphne for once (in Poppy).  But of course, Frasier and Niles had to ruin it.

[Annber03]

16 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

And it would be so nice for Niles to be mooning over someone besides Daphne for once (in Poppy).  But of course, Frasier and Niles had to ruin it.

The burgeoning relationship between Niles and Poppy was intriguing, yeah. I liked how he brought out another side of her. Now I'm wondering what would've happened if things had progressed with her - he may never have met Mel, and it could've altered how and when he and Daphne got together, if at all.

Hm. That idea would be really fun to explore further now....

[Ms Blue Jay]

6 hours ago, Annber03 said:

The burgeoning relationship between Niles and Poppy was intriguing, yeah. I liked how he brought out another side of her. Now I'm wondering what would've happened if things had progressed with her - he may never have met Mel, and it could've altered how and when he and Daphne got together, if at all.

Hm. That idea would be really fun to explore further now....

All good points.  I know Poppy could be annoying, but I vastly prefer her over Mel.  I like Katie Finneran's performance of Poppy because she was so different than any other character Katie has played.  You could tell she has range.  It was sweet how she acted around Niles too.

Edited February 28, 2023 by Ms Blue Jay

[Ms Blue Jay]

So it was actually Frasier who pushed and pushed and pushed Niles to ask out Mel - and then of course, Frasier doesn't like her.  Funny.

How pathetic is it that I'm excited that "Back Talk" is the next episode 😄

Edited March 1, 2023 by Ms Blue Jay

[rubaco]

Lilith will appear in the reboot. 

https://www.etonline.com/bebe-neuwirth-returning-as-ex-wife-lilith-for-frasier-reboot-everything-we-know-about-the-sequel

[Ms Blue Jay]

So, "RDWRER" came on TV today.  Weirdest thing.  I have been skipping it all these years.  I think I got it mixed up with "Travels with Martin" and figured I didn't want to see it again.  LOL.  Well, nope, it's a totally different episode.

It wasn't bad!  I even laughed a time or two.  (Eddie putting up his paws when Martin had to put his hands up - LOL).  It feels so different from other "Frasier" episodes.  It's so wild!  It was almost like discovering a new episode.

Frasier was on for so long they doubled up on plots.  2 episodes riding in a Winnebago?  LOL.  Several in a cabin.  And so on.

Edited March 2, 2023 by Ms Blue Jay

[chessiegal]

16 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Frasier was on for so long they doubled up on plots. 

Including lifting plots from Shakespeare. As my husband says, there are only so many stories to tell.

[Ms Blue Jay]

14 minutes ago, chessiegal said:

Including lifting plots from Shakespeare. As my husband says, there are only so many stories to tell.

And Hitchcock, among many others I am sure.  "Sliding Doors" was another one.

[smartymarty]

Reviewer describes reboot as "the new series takes place in Boston, the cast will mostly comprise of all new characters who Frasier meets while navigating a new city."

https://www.primetimer.com/news/frasier-sequel-bebe-neuwirth-david-hyde-pierce-jane-leeves

Does she not know that Frasier was a spinoff from Cheers, set in Boston? The city is not new to Frasier (unless she means it's changed a lot??).

[Ms Blue Jay]

Well the writer does say he'll be BACK in Boston.

[Bort]

2 hours ago, smartymarty said:

Does she not know that Frasier was a spinoff from Cheers, set in Boston? The city is not new to Frasier (unless she means it's changed a lot??).

That might be it. Frasier hasn’t lived in Boston since the early 90s, I guarantee it’s changed a lot. I lived in Seattle in the late 90s and when I went back 20 years later, it was so, so different.

[Irlandesa]

I wonder if Bebe is a regular or if she's just in an episode or two. 

One thing I don't think they need to think much about is having to explain where Daphne and Niles are.  If they live in Seattle, I don't think it'll be an issue that we never see them.  There's no need for a falling out or any such nonsense. 

I do hope we'll eventually see Niles at least in a recurring fashion.

[smartymarty]

1 hour ago, Irlandesa said:

One thing I don't think they need to think much about is having to explain where Daphne and Niles are.  If they live in Seattle, I don't think it'll be an issue that we never see them.  There's no need for a falling out or any such nonsense. 

I do hope we'll eventually see Niles at least in a recurring fashion.

If the show is not good, we may see them in one episode as a favor to Grammar to get viewers.

[peacheslatour]

17 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

And Hitchcock, among many others I am sure.  "Sliding Doors" was another one.

And French farce, Ski Lodge is a good example. Lol, they even had a French guy named "Guy".

[Ms Blue Jay]

19 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

And French farce, Ski Lodge is a good example. Lol, they even had a French guy named "Guy".

Frasier and Niles bring up playwright Noel Coward a lot, too.

And Frasier goes to see "The Man who came to Dinner".  The plot of that movie from 1942/play from 1939 is basically the plot of Frasier.

[Egg McMuffin]

Bebe Neuwirth isn’t a regular on the new series.

[Nellise]

9 hours ago, kariyaki said:

That might be it. Frasier hasn’t lived in Boston since the early 90s, I guarantee it’s changed a lot. I lived in Seattle in the late 90s and when I went back 20 years later, it was so, so different.

I lived in Boston around 2000. I went to show someone on a map where I lived (near Fenway Park) and there were about 10 new buildings just on my block that hadn't been there.

[tessaray]

3 hours ago, Egg McMuffin said:

Bebe Neuwirth isn’t a regular on the new series.

As long as she shows up a couple of times, I'll be happy. 

[tessaray]

15 hours ago, smartymarty said:

Reviewer describes reboot as "the new series takes place in Boston, the cast will mostly comprise of all new characters who Frasier meets while navigating a new city."

https://www.primetimer.com/news/frasier-sequel-bebe-neuwirth-david-hyde-pierce-jane-leeves

Does she not know that Frasier was a spinoff from Cheers, set in Boston? The city is not new to Frasier (unless she means it's changed a lot??).

I wonder if they meant new career?

Frasier went to Boston on a regular basis to visit Freddie, so the changes shouldn't be a complete shock.

[andromeda331]

11 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

And French farce, Ski Lodge is a good example. Lol, they even had a French guy named "Guy".

I love that episode! It was so funny. Everyone chasing everyone else. Niles had two people after him. Poor Frasier when he realized no one was chasing him.

[smartymarty]

18 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

And Frasier goes to see "The Man who came to Dinner".  The plot of that movie from 1942/play from 1939 is basically the plot of Frasier.

That play/movie is based on Alexander Woollcott, a theater critic and member of the Algonquin Round Table. My favorite Woollcott quote is "His huff arrived and he departed in it."

[Ms Blue Jay]

Watching the classic episode "Something about Dr. Mary" and screaming laughing at this part:

Martin:  "Boy, that Dr. Mary sure goes on and on."

Frasier:  "For the last time...  she is not a doctor!  No matter how many times she refers to herself as one.

A cat can have kittens in the oven
but that don't make 'em biscuits!

Dear...God, now I'm quoting Grandpa Willie."

Edited March 3, 2023 by Ms Blue Jay

[Ms Blue Jay]

I think I found a plot inconsistency.  "Whine Club"
Frasier says they have Martin's friend Stanley Wojadubakowski to thank for introducing Martin to his mother, but didn't Martin and Hester meet at a crime scene?

 

Here's how Martin describes it in Season 2:

Martin:
Hester was a psychiatrist, so every now and again the department would have her run up a profile on a suspect. I remember the first time I met her. It was over the chalk outline of a murder victim. She drew a little smile on the head of the outline, and I drew a pair of eyes, and before you knew it we were laughing like a couple of kids.

Edited March 3, 2023 by Ms Blue Jay

[Ms Blue Jay]

Mel is visiting for brunch and wants to lock Eddie out on the balcony!

Martin (aside):  I'll tell you who I'D like to lock out on the balcony.

Roz (Deadpan):  Oh please.  Let it be me.

 

Daphne gets so freaking drunk in this episode I forgot 😄😄😄

Edited March 3, 2023 by Ms Blue Jay

[Mabinogia]

41 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Roz (Deadpan):  Oh please.  Let it be me.

Peri Gilpin's delivery (on all her lines) is just perfect. 

[Annber03]

2 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Mel is visiting for brunch and wants to lock Eddie out on the balcony!

Martin (aside):  I'll tell you who I'D like to lock out on the balcony.

Roz (Deadpan):  Oh please.  Let it be me.

"Did you say 'a brunch with Mel' or 'a brunch from hell'?" 

 

Quote

Daphne gets so freaking drunk in this episode I forgot 😄😄😄

"With 'er head tucked underneath her arm, she waaaaaaaaalks the bloody tower!"

And then the way she point blank tells Niles that she doesn't like Mel :p. Niles' reaction to that is priceless. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

8 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

"Did you say 'a brunch with Mel' or 'a brunch from hell'?" 

I swear I had a feeling somebody would quote that line 😁

[andromeda331]

9 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I think I found a plot inconsistency.  "Whine Club"
Frasier says they have Martin's friend Stanley Wojadubakowski to thank for introducing Martin to his mother, but didn't Martin and Hester meet at a crime scene?

 

Here's how Martin describes it in Season 2:

Martin:
Hester was a psychiatrist, so every now and again the department would have her run up a profile on a suspect. I remember the first time I met her. It was over the chalk outline of a murder victim. She drew a little smile on the head of the outline, and I drew a pair of eyes, and before you knew it we were laughing like a couple of kids.

I love that description of how they met. It sounds so cute. 

[ljenkins782]

On 2/17/2023 at 11:32 AM, jird said:

I am always entertained how they pretend that Daphne and Roz wear the same size. Like the episode where Roz asks Daphne if she can borrow a push-up bra, when Roz is clearly several bra sizes larger than Daphne.

Yes!! Jane Leeves is several inches taller with a willowy frame, Roz is shorter and curvier, there's no way she was squeezing into any of Daphne's clothes.

[Mabinogia]

I just watched one of my all time favorite eps. It's the one where Niles says he's finally going to ask Daphne out, but when the time comes he chokes and says he's in love with Phyliss. 

Daphne comes over the night of the "date" and helps Niles set up. She describes her perfect date, the "me too" moments, the being in sync with each other, etc and then, as she makes dinner (because he hasn't, because there isn't really a date planned) and he goes and helps, all those little moments happen. They chop veg in sync and start singing together (I love that scene soooo much), they discover things they have in common. He is charmed by her take on all the veg (though we don't like to think about the carrots, not while brutally slaughtering them lol), and then, when they whole Phyliss thing falls apart, Niles asks if Daphne would like to stay for dinner. 

It is so beautiful because they had their perfect first date, but it's heartbreaking as well because he knows it's not a real date and she doesn't even realize it is a date. 

I will say, I am rarely ever a fan of a will they won't they couple, but I think Frasier handled Niles and Daphne's very long, very slow burn very well. 

[Annber03]

I love that episode so much :). That ending is so touching and slightly bittersweet, for the reasons you note :). I also love how they get to bond a little more over things, and the "Heart & Soul" singalong...just too precious and adorable. 

I also get a kick out of seeing the actress who plays Phyllis on here, because she's popped up on a couple other shows I watch, so every time I see her I'm like, 'Hey, it's DaPhyllis!" LOL. 

3 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

I will say, I am rarely ever a fan of a will they won't they couple, but I think Frasier handled Niles and Daphne's very long, very slow burn very well. 

They really did. I think it helped that the reasons they couldn't get together were realistic and believable ones, and not just stuff randomly tossed in to create obstacles. They were both from such different worlds and had their own issues and growth to do, so it made sense it would take a while before they finally got together as a result. Despite it being seven years, it didn't feel like it dragged. Or at least, it doesn't when you're watching the reruns. I don't know, maybe for people who had been following the show from day one when it originally aired, maybe it did feel that way to them at times? 

[Ms Blue Jay]

I have a hard time understanding how people will watch Abbott Elementary and get so upset about the "Will they Won't they" dynamic on that show, say it's taking too long, just "Decide already", etc.  It feels like just yesterday that show started.  To me it feels like nothing.  With Frasier people had to wait 7 years.

I had no stakes in the Daphne/Niles drama so I don't think I cared.  I certainly don't remember caring.  What I do remember feeling passionate about is not liking how they wrote Daphne once Jane Leeves got pregnant.  It felt so hypocritical; Jane Leeves was a size zero and she was treated as this goddess on the show.  So it's like when Jane gained some weight the writers thought, we have no idea how to write a woman like this.  And they went insane.  It's just another display of how badly this show wrote women in my opinion.  That whole subplot just ruined the whole Niles and Daphne FINALLY getting together thing.

Elaine Benes did not have this problem on Seinfeld and Julia Louis Dreyfus was pregnant on the show TWICE.  It just makes me upset.

Edited March 6, 2023 by Ms Blue Jay

[Irlandesa]

10 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I have a hard time understanding how people will watch Abbott Elementary and get so upset about the "Will they Won't they" dynamic on that show, say it's taking too long, just "Decide already", etc.  It feels like just yesterday that show started.  To me it feels like nothing.  With Frasier people had to wait 7 years.

I think the situations are different.  The characters on that show are unmarried, on the same level professionally and have shown mutual interest. So the whole "we're just friends" bit feels tired.  Plus, from the episodes I've seen, they seem to put more focus on it than Frasier did.

Daphne and Niles were separated because of a marriage and the fact that it was one-sided.  Once Daphne also had feelings for Niles, things moved quickly even though there was another marriage.

[andidante]

7 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

 

Elaine Benes did not have this problem on Seinfeld and Julia Louis Dreyfus was pregnant on the show TWICE.  It just makes me upset.

Also Patricia Heaton was pregnant twice on Everybody Loves Raymond and they managed just fine without any drama. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

1 hour ago, andidante said:

Also Patricia Heaton was pregnant twice on Everybody Loves Raymond and they managed just fine without any drama. 

Thank you!  And I know there are more examples, but it's hard for me to come up with them, because the showrunners did such a good job.

On King of Queens, Leah Remini gave birth to a child in the last few seasons of the show.  On Sex and the City, SJP did as well.  They shortened one season for that purpose.  The season wasn't great, but at least they didn't claim that she had a weight problem.  There's a show called Happy Together where the main actress was pregnant like immediately, like just a few episodes in.  Unfortunately the show was cancelled after 1 season, but it shows you how much things have changed since the 90s.

8 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I think the situations are different.  The characters on that show are unmarried, on the same level professionally and have shown mutual interest. So the whole "we're just friends" bit feels tired.  Plus, from the episodes I've seen, they seem to put more focus on it than Frasier did.

I don't think that dating your coworker is the most casual situation.  If it doesn't work out, it could be bad professionally.  My opinion.  At the very least, it is a distraction from your job and not the easiest minefield to get into.

Edited March 6, 2023 by Ms Blue Jay

[TheLastKidPicked]

On 3/1/2023 at 6:19 PM, Ms Blue Jay said:

So, "RDWRER" came on TV today. 

 

John Mahoney does an amazing job of showing childlike excitement and it plays well against his buttoned down sons. 

A perfect example was when another motorist honked and yelled,  "Pick a lane, Roadwarrior!" 

Martin:  "See!  He gets it!"

 

 

[peacheslatour]

Quote

I had no stakes in the Daphne/Niles drama so I don't think I cared. 

I never cared either. It was funny, the way he mooned over her but I thought that other than dancing well together, they had no discernible chemistry.

[ljenkins782]

12 hours ago, andidante said:

Also Patricia Heaton was pregnant twice on Everybody Loves Raymond and they managed just fine without any drama. 

Julie Bowen was pregnant with twins at the start of Modern Family. They did the usual big shirt/holding stuff, etc. In both of those cases, you can tell they're pregnant if you know, but if you didn't know, they mostly just look cute and soft in the face. I wonder if Jane Leaves just carried differently in a way that was harder to hide? 

Either way, it was a terrible choice to handle it that way, but given that they'd just done such a major thing as getting them together after 7 years, I guess they didn't think they could simply write her out entirely for a spell. If she'd been pregnant a few seasons earlier, they could've stuck her behind a laundry basket in a few scenes and not really given her too much to do.

Quote

 

John Mahoney does an amazing job of showing childlike excitement and it plays well against his buttoned down sons. 

A perfect example was when another motorist honked and yelled,  "Pick a lane, Roadwarrior!" 

Martin:  "See!  He gets it!"

 

It was fascinating to learn that the real John Mahoney was more like Niles than DHP was, like into fine wine and opera, because John sold that beer drinking, ex-cop thing so well. And Travels with Martin and RWDWR showed that he was entertaining in the car, lol.

Quote

I never cared either. It was funny, the way he mooned over her but I thought that other than dancing well together, they had no discernible chemistry.

Same here. His infatuation with her was one thing, but I never really bought the return feelings from her. 

[Egg McMuffin]

My favorite “hide the pregnancy” story is from Cheers, where Shelley Long was pregnant and Diane spent an entire episode stuck under the floor in a heating duct, shouting out her lines and participating in the A story as if she is there in person. Too funny.

[Bort]

The Nanny had Lauren Lane, who played CC, pregnant at some point in the series and there was no hiding it either, as it was like Leeves where she was full blown final trimester right in the middle of the season but they totally ignored it on The Nanny. No weight gain comments, no nothing. With the exception of one scene where CC comes in and complains about how obvious it is that Elaine on Seinfeld is pregnant and that the giant purses and potted plants hide nothing, all the while carrying a giant purse and a potted plant.

[Ms Blue Jay]

3 hours ago, ljenkins782 said:

Julie Bowen was pregnant with twins at the start of Modern Family.

I didn't even know that and I watched the whole show twice.  That's an awesome fact, thank you. (Frankly it isn't our business.  Which adds to the many reasons why I was annoyed this show made it our business so unmistakeably.)  

2 hours ago, kariyaki said:

The Nanny had Lauren Lane, who played CC, pregnant at some point in the series and there was no hiding it either, as it was like Leeves where she was full blown final trimester right in the middle of the season but they totally ignored it on The Nanny. No weight gain comments, no nothing. With the exception of one scene where CC comes in and complains about how obvious it is that Elaine on Seinfeld is pregnant and that the giant purses and potted plants hide nothing, all the while carrying a giant purse and a potted plant.

I'm a big fan of the show The Exes, and they made this kind of comment about Patricia Heaton because their own actor was super pregnant at the time.  I kind of hate that type of joke, but whatever.  I assume "The Nanny"'s joke came off as more clever.

I kind of think shows shouldn't look down on their audiences so much.  If people notice a bigger stomach, so what?  We see them on male actors all of the time!  If it's the actress's choice that's one thing but if it's because producers and directors are just so TERRIFIED of a female actor having extra pounds on her body or her face that they feel the need for an insane explanation for it, that's what pisses me off.

Edited March 7, 2023 by Ms Blue Jay

[andromeda331]

3 hours ago, kariyaki said:

The Nanny had Lauren Lane, who played CC, pregnant at some point in the series and there was no hiding it either, as it was like Leeves where she was full blown final trimester right in the middle of the season but they totally ignored it on The Nanny. No weight gain comments, no nothing. With the exception of one scene where CC comes in and complains about how obvious it is that Elaine on Seinfeld is pregnant and that the giant purses and potted plants hide nothing, all the while carrying a giant purse and a potted plant.

I like how they handle it on the Nanny too. They did have a sign Baby for one of their musicals. It didn't feel like a joke but announcing the pregnancy.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Simon:  Don't worry Roz, I know where I can get my hands on some very nice Armani suits.

Martin:  Well you could just take one from Frasier's closet.

Roz (pissed off):  What do you think he was TALKING about?!

😄

I do like the two episodes that deal with Niles's and Daphne's respective weddings, but you can see the writers setting up Jane Leeves's pregnancy with really lowbrow fat and eating jokes.  Martin says Daphne's getting fat and needs to stop eating so much, and Roz insults Daphne's baker aunt by talking about how large she is.  Does it not seem totally out of character for Martin to say something so nasty to Daphne especially?

Donny going from hotel room to hotel room with his foot exposed asking if he has a boil or a blister does not help the gross accusations.

Edited March 9, 2023 by Ms Blue Jay

[Ms Blue Jay]

Ah, Season 8, my least favourite season.  You can tell the writing is starting to get very clunky.  As if Martin would walk through Frasier's apartment yelling, "Fine, but I'm attending this wedding reception under protest only" and reminding Niles "Don't forget Niles to wear that watch Mel gave you."  🙄

At least this episode has some good lines like Frasier's "I am Wounded" and Niles's "Damn that Mel."

I actually find Simon pretty amusing.  It's Daphne's mother that I dislike.  There's really little entertainment value she provides, except for that episode where she hangs out with the artist in  Niles's apartment when Daphne is trying to throw a dinner party.

 

Edited March 10, 2023 by Ms Blue Jay

[Ms Blue Jay]

Anyone remember Martin trying to rile up Daphne about Mel so that Daphne will massage him harder?  After Martin tries to rile her up, his big grin and look of anticipation on his face for the massage always makes me laugh 😄

LOL,

After Niles calls out one of Mel's friends for being a drunk, everyone makes all these comments about Niles having courage.

Wife:  Thank you for giving me my husband back.

😄

Edited March 10, 2023 by Ms Blue Jay

[Lois Sandborne]

I've been catching up with a really great Frasier podcast. One of the hosts loves Frasier and has rewatched many times, and the other is watching for the first time. They have a fun running bit where the Frasier expert asks the newbie some question about what will happen. But in the episode I just listened to about "To Tell the Truth" (the one where we meet Donny), the newbie asks the expert if he thought Frasier would've eventually been honest in the deposition about Niles's feelings for Daphne if they had never dug up Maris's deep, dark secret about where her money came from.

I do think after all the torture and back-and-forth about his precious morals, Frasier would've eventually sucked it up and said he wasn't aware of Niles being in love with Daphne. Frasier lied all the time, lol. And for all his talk about principles, he sold those out too on occasion, like in the episode where they stole that author's manuscript. The whole being under oath thing I don't think would ultimately have been enough to keep him from protecting his brother. (I'm saying this as a lawyer haha.)

[TheLastKidPicked]

5 hours ago, Lois Sandborne said:

(I'm saying this as a lawyer haha.)

 

Frasier:  You're dating a prostitute. 

Niles:  Now Frasier, I don't like lawyers any more than you do. . .

 

Edited March 15, 2023 by TheLastKidPicked

[Mabinogia]

6 hours ago, Lois Sandborne said:

I do think after all the torture and back-and-forth about his precious morals, Frasier would've eventually sucked it up and said he wasn't aware of Niles being in love with Daphne.

I don't think Frasier is quite as moral as he likes to think he is. I also think that is a good thing. The world isn't black and white and moral decisions aren't either. Frasier's loyalty should lie with his brother and yes, Niles was in love with Daphne almost from the start, but he truly did try to make it work with Maris for far longer than he probably should have. Of course I'm biased as I think Niles was deserving of bucket loads of hazard pay for being with Maris as long as he was.