Laurel Lance: Black Canary, Black Siren.

[tessaray]

By holding on to BC for Laurel they missed more than one chance to make her an interesting or even compelling character. KC could have really rocked as Manhunter.  But she doesn't even need a comic persona, as a long time family friend and former girlfriend, she could have generated story as a QC lawyer or snarky voice of sanity working with her sister or Team Arrow.  

 

So now she's just a mess who could still be fixed, which is sad because I don't see any indication that they understand the actress or the character they've created - that is, the one I see onscreen (not the one in their heads).  Because that is all I have to go on.

Edited October 2, 2014 by tessaray

[Orion]

By holding on to BC for Laurel they missed more than one chance to make her an interesting or even compelling character. KC could have really rocked as Manhunter.  But she doesn't even need a comic persona, as a long time family friend and former girlfriend, she could have generated story as a QC lawyer or snarky voice of sanity working with her sister or Team Arrow.  .

 

ITA and that's for me the reason I don't think Laurel was ever going to be a successful character. Ignoring the character inconsistency, the writing, the actress and some of the acting choices she has made, Laurel was overburdened  with destiny. She was destined to be Oliver's love interest and destined to be the BC but the writers weren't willing to give her any of it. She therefore is a character in a holding pattern from the word go. The audience can't invest in her relationships because the story says they are destined to not work out because at the end of the day she is with Oliver. She can't be kick ass like the other women because she has to evolve into the BC so the audience can't invest in her fights knowing that she doesn't have the skills to win. The two things that should absolutely give her agency in the story do the exact opposite.  Everything about Laurel is just a place holder. Even her job as a lawyer was to give her something to do to help the Arrow until she can actually fight with him.

 

Oliver would suffer from the same problem but the writers gave him his destiny, being the Arrow,  from the start. He's allowed to own that agency in the story. The same with his relationship with Laurel. It is his choice not to try to win her back and when the plot demanded that he get her back he is the one who decided to go to her. He's the one moving the chest pieces on the board and Laurel is left to be a plot device.

 

When I think of Diggle and Felicity, the one person the writers created and the other person that they pretty much threw comic canon out the window for, one of the best things about them is that they are free of any story weight. The writers are free to create and build story based on what works on the show and what feels right for each of them. They didn't come with an already drawn map that said start here and end here forcing the writers to do things OOC to position them where they needed to end up. The fact that these two became fan favorites while Laurel withered can really illustrate why writing character driven story is so much more compelling.  

 

I think freeing Laurel from Lauriver was a good first step in fixing her. If they would allow themselves the freedom of freeing her from the BC weight I think they have a chance of making a truly interesting character. It might be to late for some viewers but for the vast majority turning Laurel into a character free to drive her own agency bus would make a world of difference.

[wonderwall]

I have to admit, KC did a really nice job buffing up this summer. 

 

http://instagram.com/p/tqrnMklS7W/?modal=true

 

If only I had that dedication :p 

[FurryFury]

I wonder if it made her a better actress. 

[apinknightmare]

I have to admit, KC did a really nice job buffing up this summer. 

 

http://instagram.com/p/tqrnMklS7W/?modal=true

 

If only I had that dedication :p 

 

She really did (and you'd probably have that dedication if you were paid to do it, too).

 

It's too bad I have less than zero interest in finding out what she's buffing up for, haha.

[Guest]

I have to admit, KC did a really nice job buffing up this summer. 

 

http://instagram.com/p/tqrnMklS7W/?modal=true

 

If only I had that dedication :p 

 

She looks really great! The trouble is, KC buffing up is not the problem. It's how/why her character gets there. 

 

Ha, I wish I had the dedication too. This did stop me from reaching for a second cupcake though which is something! LOL.

[wonderwall]

I wonder if it made her a better actress. 

Lmaoooooooooo! YOU MADE ME SPIt UP tHE WATER I WAS DRINKING. HOW DARE YOU. 

 

Honestly though, I dislike Laurel so much that I almost resent Dinah for birthing her. And Quentin for being an accomplice. Almost.

 

I have a problem. 

[ban1o]

Wow Katie Cassidy looks great! I am really impressed

[catrox14]

FurryFury, I legit LoL'd at your comment. 

 

No amount of getting buff will make me accept KC as any kind of canary (except maybe the one in the coalmine)...

Edited October 2, 2014 by catrox14

[wonderwall]

Ha, I wish I had the dedication too. This did stop me from reaching for a second cupcake though which is something! LOL.

Cupcakes will be my downfall. 

Edited October 2, 2014 by wonderwall

[ban1o]

Well whenever there is news about Laurel there are people here complaining about it so it evens out lol. :P 

[wonderwall]

Well whenever there is news about Laurel there are people here complaining about it so it evens out lol. :P 

Well technically KC working out isn't 'news' per se because she's been tweeting about it ALL summer! She looks good. No denying it. But I WISH that was Laurel's problem. :/ I hope KC got a good grasp of who her character is over the summer! I also hope the same for the EPs and writers! I feel like they would put more effort into writing Laurel if they were more passionate about her... which they really don't seem to be especially in comparison to how they feel about Felicity and Digg. 

[catrox14]

That's what these forums are for, to both heap praise upon and complain about characters we like and dislike. It's all fair game.

Edited October 2, 2014 by catrox14

[ban1o]

Well technically KC working out isn't 'news' per se because she's been tweeting about it ALL summer! She looks good. No denying it. But I WISH that was Laurel's problem. :/ I hope KC got a good grasp of who her character is over the summer! I also hope the same for the EPs and writers! I feel like they would put more effort into writing Laurel if they were more passionate about her... which they really don't seem to be especially in comparison to how they feel about Felicity and Digg. 

Yeah she's posted a lot of pictures hasn't she lol? I guess she's proud of her progress though. I know if I got that fit (which will never happen) I would probably brag about it on facebook lol. And yeah I hope the writers have a better grasp on what to do with her character. Who knows? We don't really have much on her storyline (not sure if that's becuase they are hiding it like Thea's or because her storyline sucks  lmao) . 

[wonderwall]

Yeah she's posted a lot of pictures hasn't she lol? I guess she's proud of her progress though. I know if I got that fit (which will never happen) I would probably brag about it on facebook lol. And yeah I hope the writers have a better grasp on what to do with her character. Who knows? We don't really have much on her storyline (not sure if that's becuase they are hiding it like Thea's or because her storyline sucks  lmao) . 

Who WOULDN'T be proud of it!? Like I said, she did a GREAT job buffing up :) And here I am eating cupcakes. I feel like such trash right now :p 

 

My feelings about Laurel is very conflicting. ON the one hand I want to like her. On the other hand, I want to see her die because I'm tired of her. There's no in between. My feelings for Laurel are as bipolar as Laurel is about how she feels about Oliver. 

Edited October 2, 2014 by wonderwall

[Sakura12]

Getting in shape wasn't ever Laurel's problem. So I don't see how it means anything. I take Krav Maga and am doing the Insanity workout, does that mean I should go be an actress?

 

I would rather she post about getting acting lessons or improving her knowledge about the character she's playing instead of repeating what she thinks the comics say. 

Edited October 2, 2014 by Sakura12

[wonderwall]

I would rather she post about getting acting lessons or improving her knowledge about the character she's playing instead of repeating what she thinks the comics say. 

You mean when she says "Um did you read the comics?" in answering about Laurel's direction on the show... which is ironic considering last I heard, she's never read the comics :p Oh that girl is a PR disaster right now. 

[Sakura12]

You mean when she says "Um did you read the comics?" in answering about Laurel's direction on the show... which is ironic considering last I heard, she's never read the comics :p Oh that girl is a PR disaster right now. 

 

That answer is what makes me want Geoff Johns to be like "Okay, Sara Lance can be the Black Canary on your show" to the Arrow writers. He already likes CL's portrayal of the BC, so a girl can still dream.

 

I do think a lot will be riding on KC and the writers this season to get people to like Laurel. If they fail yet again, I hope they can take the character failure and let her go.

Edited October 3, 2014 by Sakura12

[statsgirl]

 

Yeah she's posted a lot of pictures hasn't she lol? I guess she's proud of her progress though. 

KC looks very fit and she should be proud of all the work she's done.

I would feel better if that picture hadn't been taken at a moment to maximize the muscle detail.  She looks great and I don't think could do a pull-up like that but the purpose of that photo is p.r. to show that yes, now she can be the Black Canary.  It makes me feel kind of sad. 

 

 

ITA and that's for me the reason I don't think Laurel was ever going to be a successful character. Ignoring the character inconsistency, the writing, the actress and some of the acting choices she has made, Laurel was overburdened  with destiny. She was destined to be Oliver's love interest and destined to be the BC but the writers weren't willing to give her any of it. She therefore is a character in a holding pattern from the word go. The audience can't invest in her relationships because the story says they are destined to not work out because at the end of the day she is with Oliver. She can't be kick ass like the other women because she has to evolve into the BC so the audience can't invest in her fights knowing that she doesn't have the skills to win. The two things that should absolutely give her agency in the story do the exact opposite.  Everything about Laurel is just a place holder. Even her job as a lawyer was to give her something to do to help the Arrow until she can actually fight with him.

I agree.  Everyone from the comics has been burdened by destiny, but with Roy, Slade, Tommy and Thea/Mia, they had enough wiggle room to adapt the characters to fit into the context of the show.  With Laurel, the burden was too great. She was going to be Oliver's love interest and the BC, but the show is called Arrow and so Laurel had to be adapted to fit Oliver's story.

 

But, and there's a but, they could have done a better job with her story than they did.  Laurel fighting in Max's club didn't have to be so badly done, (And KC should have been  working out all along instead of just starting at the end of s2.)  When Tommy died, it would have been a wonderful prompt to set her on a vigilante path, or even any time she couldn't get justice for someone at CNRI.  They could have had her get in the way of a mugging and realize she needed more fighting skills, and then move her to teaching self-defense classes for women and girls because she is a good-doer and sees the need in the dangerous place that is the Glades.

 

It's a combination of burden, which they couldn't do much about, and lost opportunities, which they could.

[willpwr]

I think she looks amazing but that was never the issue. It's more that she has her character stuck in her S1 role, and her acting and the writing aren't on the same page as to what is described and what is actually shown. Laurel is cartoonish to me, from her reaction to Slade telling her Oliver's secret to the way she pounds her fists after "beating" people up. I remember having read an interview where KC said something about how she had no problem giving Sara dating advice because she knew it wouldn't work out and Oliver would go back to Laurel anyway, I mean really? Who says that? She has such a way of talking herself up by putting the other characters down, such as her "fling" comment about Felicity, also.

[Sakura12]

I still never get why instead of having Laurel start training to be the BC after Tommy's death they brought in an already highly trained BC with Sara. Did think everyone would hate a badass woman that fights for women, takes in an orphan and defends the people in the Glades? Then proceed to spend more time fleshing out her character over Laurel's, because that makes no sense. 

 

I know Sara was their new toy to play with but you'd think they'd want to work on the toy they already had. That just showed me they were bored with Laurel.

Edited October 3, 2014 by Sakura12

[wonderwall]

I still never get why instead of having Laurel start training to be the BC after Tommy's death they brought in an already highly trained BC with Sara. Did think everyone would hate a badass woman that fights for women, takes in an orphan and defends the people in the Glades? Then proceed to spend more time fleshing out her character over Laurel's, because that makes no sense. 

Like I said before, I think this terrible story of Laurel's is the product of a lack of passion for Laurel as a character. I mean that explains all the clunky lines (everyone gets these, but everything out of Laurel's mouth is clunky and cheesy and makes me want to roll my eyes), the lack of development, the amount of missteps they've had with her character... No passion = bad story. At least, that's been my experience. 

 

The same sort of goes for KC. I don't feel her passion for Laurel in her interviews or in her interpretation of her as I do with EBR and SA. 

[TanyaKay]

Laurel is cartoonish to me, from her reaction to Slade telling her Oliver's secret to the way she pounds her fists after "beating" people up. I remember having read an interview where KC said something about how she had no problem giving Sara dating advice because she knew it wouldn't work out and Oliver would go back to Laurel anyway, I mean really? Who says that? She has such a way of talking herself up by putting the other characters down, such as her "fling" comment about Felicity, also.

Dis she really say that about that god awful dating advice scene? I am laughing like crazy here.

She called Felicity comic relief multiple times and I think Emily threw perfect shade in response when she said in CBR interview that she is very glad that she is the one who brought humor to the show. That girl impresses me with every interview that she gives.

[wonderwall]

I remember having read an interview where KC said something about how she had no problem giving Sara dating advice because she knew it wouldn't work out and Oliver would go back to Laurel anyway, I mean really? Who says that? She has such a way of talking herself up by putting the other characters down, such as her "fling" comment about Felicity, also.

Wow, did she really say that about giving Oliver relationship advice? I don't remember it! Also those remarks just show her insecurities about her character being overshadowed by every single other character. Oh well, KC is right in feeling her role is being overshadowed, why? Because it is. I just wish she handles the questions about the other characters better. Which won't happen anytime soon so the point of this post is essentially moot.

[catrox14]

I don't really see how it's a lack of passion for the character when AK and MG do nothing but gush about Laurel. I think it's a problem of actor, writer, director not on the same page about what the character is about.

[wonderwall]

I don't really see how it's a lack of passion for the character when AK and MG do nothing but gush about Laurel. I think it's a problem of actor, writer, director not on the same page about what the character is about.

They don't really gush over Laurel as much as they do about KC, right? It's been a long while I've heard them gush about Laurel. A long long while. And I'm not talking about just the EPs. I'm talking about the writers (who saddle her with the worst lines that makes Laurel look bipolar "I know you like I know my own name") and KC as well.

 

And it's interesting because if AK and MG love and gush about Laurel, we probably would've heard more about her over all the cons, the iTunes sneak peak, the interviews, the tweets, etc. I see no passion at all. And if they really do gush about Laurel, I'd chalk it up to compensating over said lack of passion. 

[willpwr]

Yes, she said that, I'm trying to find the interview. The interviewer asked her what was the deal with her giving dating advice and that's how she replied. 

 

She was more diplomatic in the one with EW:

 

There’s been a bad breakup. Who would get Laurel’s spare room for the night?

Neither. [Laughs] I know that she was supportive for a minute, but she’s still secretly kind of like, “He’s with me.” I don’t think she wants to be involved.

 

I remember having read the other one and thinking she really needs media training. Well, TBH, I think that after almost every interview but that one stood out even more and I stopped looking up interviews after because I was just getting frustrated.

[writersblock51]

KC has been posting pics of her working out for months, so it's not a surprise and frankly, it's part of her job. So yay, you're doing you're job. And publicizing it.  I'd be more impressed if she was discussing (with or without pics as proof!) training in martial arts or choreographed fight scenes or working with weapons.  All the muscle pics show is that she's been lifting weights - which has very little to do with being able to pick up and run with the Black Canary mantle.  Pretty much just lipstick on a pig at this point for me.

 

I'd also love to hear - from her - that she's done some reading up on Dinah Lance (or Dinah Drake) in the comics and has a better sense of the long history of her & the Black Canary.  Because the show is not starting from scratch with Black Canary - like Oliver, there is enough comic history to use that is also expected.  Martial arts, black costume, strong personality and can go toe-to-toe with Oliver.  And merely slapping on the costume and "making a muscle" is not enough to convince me she can take over from Sara/CL.

 

 

Yes, she said that, I'm trying to find the interview. The interviewer asked her what was the deal with her giving dating advice and that's how she replied.

 

She was more diplomatic in the one with EW:

 

There’s been a bad breakup. Who would get Laurel’s spare room for the night?

Neither. [Laughs] I know that she was supportive for a minute, but she’s still secretly kind of like, “He’s with me.” I don’t think she wants to be involved.

 

When was this interview, though?  Pre S2? During S2?  Because if it's been since June, then I seriously have to wonder if KC even watches the show or pays attention to scenes that she's not in.  otherwise, her reaction could be suitable for an earlier time frame, such as between S1 and S2.

[KirkB]

Let me start by saying it's the EP's show and their characters and they're entitled to do whatever they want with them. That said, I think there is a pretty big disconnect between the EP's and at least a portion of the audience. Some of them seem to be under the impression that what the anti-Laurel crowd is bothered by is that she isn't wearing the fishnets and kicking ass. That they would quiet down if she would just become the Black Canary already. Somehow they are overlooking the fact this would put Laurel on screen more and aggravate the people who dislike her. Personally, I don't care what happens with Laurel (I would be bothered if something happened to just about every other character though, except maybe Roy), and unless the show becomes only her and Oliver I can continue pretty much ignoring her as I have been for the last two years.

[statsgirl]

I still never get why instead of having Laurel start training to be the BC after Tommy's death they brought in an already highly trained BC with Sara. Did think everyone would hate a badass woman that fights for women, takes in an orphan and defends the people in the Glades? Then proceed to spend more time fleshing out her character over Laurel's, because that makes no sense. 

Sometimes I think KC is her own worst enemy.  If she had looked like she does in this picture 18 months ago, and knew basic screen fighting and stunt skills (so they didn't have to throw in a stunt double for something as basic as taking down Max),  I wonder if the EPs wouldn't have made Sara Ravager and progressed KC into the role of Black Canary at the start of season 2.  Because with the way she looked in early s2 and her lack of stunt skills, most people would have had trouble seeing her as the future BC.

 

It might even have helped KC's media missteps, or at least not made them appear so glaring.  I think her expectation that it would all just be handed to her made problems for both herself and the writers.

Edited October 3, 2014 by statsgirl

[Sakura12]

Sara as Ravenger would've been interesting and led to some Oliver manpain without any relationship drama. It would've been even more interesting than the Huntress because you know Oliver would've done anything to try to save Sara's soul for her sake, his sake and for the Lance's. I don't what know what possessed them into thinking that making Sara a really awesome BC along with hiring a stunt capable actress was going to make us want Laurel to be handed the title without her actually earning it.

 

I know KC fans are going to be like we don't know what they are going to with her story yet. But the producers think that Sara handing Laurel her jacket was such a huge iconic moment and that shows me that they think that's all it takes to start Laurel's journey. Which is she wants to be Sara and with KC's manic grin in that scene I saw someone that wants the glory of being a hero instead of actually wanting to help people because it's the right thing to do. 

Edited October 3, 2014 by Sakura12

[dtissagirl]

I love it when KC posts gym pictures in the middle of the day in a working week. It means she's not on set! :)

[Morrigan2575]

She's been in Dallas for the past 2 weeks, she's missed most of 307 and some of 308 filming (so far, depends on when she flies back).  I've sen tweets from her fans towards the EPs about it.

[ostentatious]

The whole thing with the working out pics though...nobody ever said the problem with KC's physicality for the role was that she was too fat or flabby. I never thought she was too thin, personally. Her body didn't look thinner between seasons to me at all, but that could've been because in season two they kept shrouding her in huge coats, so maybe she was a lot thinner and they were trying to hide it.

The problem with her physically isn't the kind of problem you address with a run of the mill personal trainer like she has, whose job is to keep actresses as tiny as possible. She needed actual athletic training. Fighting. Cross training of all types. She really needed a lot of stability training in her hips and thighs. Think about how rock solid Caity looks through her hips and thighs. She is GROUNDED. You are not knocking that woman over. Katie, on the other hand, looks like she has balance problems, because her body type has a center of gravity that is too high. I feel her on this, I have the same problem.

To look like a fighter she needed a different type of training entirely. There was nothing wrong with her arms. She didn't need to tone them up. She didn't need this typical Hollywood training she went after. She needed to do the kind of training Caity and Stephen do. And that she didn't says to me that either TPTB didn't suggest it, which indicates they don't think her training matters, or that she ignored suggestions. Neither is good for her.

[fantique]

Re: Disposition towards Laurel in the upcoming season.

The disconnect between KC and the show plus the disconnect between TPTB and the viewers make me feel very pessimistic about it all. I just have little faith that either KC or the writers are aware of what bothers a huge sector of the viewership (from what I observed online, this forum and media coverage; I feel like 25% Hate her, 50-60% are completely indifferent towards her and the rest like her or don't genuinely like the character but are either KC fans or hang on to her because... comics). They seem to think the only 2 reasons anyone has to dislike her is Olicity or she's not the Canary yet. I would like them to fix it because she had potential. That's why it's a TV show and not a movie franchise. There is more opportunity for change and development. Do the comics say that Black Canary is a saint? From what I've looked up, no. Then why do they feel obligated to tell us the sun shines out of her bum? 

One of the problems as well (it's too late but I must lament this) is that completely horrendous backstory they gave her with Oliver which is not from the comics. Even if Sara was dead for good there was still too strong of an ick factor for me to ever get over it. They could have just had the typical good girl hates player until he shows human side, which would be after he gets back from the Island, and that would have been interesting with KC allowed to be snarky and hateful but coming around. 

Now that's all there and it happened, I feel like all they can do is relieve her of her Black Canary duty because "I wanna be my little sister who was marooned and trained with the LOA for years and is all badass now" is THE most pathetic excuse ever for becoming a vigilante. And after all the investment in Sara as character, if she dies and Laurel takes over as BC, everyone will say that she only died to legitimise Laurel and that's the mark of a weak character.

Verdict is I am open to ameliorations but not hopeful they will happen.

 

About KC beefing up, I agree that is the least of Laurel's problem. I want to hear about her discussing with the writers/EPs, thinking about how Sara being a new constant in her life impacts her acting WRT her family. I want to see her do more research on the show (not even the comics because there is too much discrepancy anyway), watch the previous seasons and actually pay attention to the others' stories and stop ignoring everyone else's importance. And if she's not that into it, then she should just quit. I agree that while her acting choices and instincts were not great the writing and characterisation was a much bigger problem than the acting for me at least. A more skilled/interested actress might have added charm but the character would still not hold upon inspection. It's like Damon on TVD, I like him when he's on the screen because Ian Somerhalder did something to make him fun and slightly over the top (also great bromance material which I always enjoy) but the character itself kind of sucks. If I think about the arc of the character I start to be irritated by him. He never learns from his mistakes and has the maturity of a 5 year old which is always a turn off for me. Those types of characters have too many self-created problems for me to truly sympathise.

Edited October 3, 2014 by fantique

[blixie]

 

he needed actual athletic training. Fighting. Cross training of all types.

And you know she didn't have this training because? Just from her twitter? She's doing pull ups that seems very cross fitish to me.  I mean in my experience no amount of training will alter her "body type", there is such a thing as genetics, which is why I've said many times I think she was just miscast. She's the wrong look, the wrong vibe for what they CLAIM they conceive the character to be, and no one working in the Arrow building has made any attempt to reconcile Dinah Laurel Lance comic book badass who is in now way a lawyer, with wishy washy super bitchy do gooding law abiding until she is blackmailing and randomly alcoholic Laurel, no one attempts to reconcile what the writers Tell us on screen/off with what the director/actress Show us on screen.

 

I don't hate KC, I think with good writing, backgrounding, and time Laurel could be a good character and possibly eventually a great Canary, I am open to that, but I'm incredibly skeptical of that happening because I think the writers and producers have no clue who Laurel Lance is, or should be, they have given me no indication they know what is wrong with Laurel or how they should fix it.

[scarynikki12]

I first noticed how thin Katie had gotten during the flashbacks leading up to Sara going on the ship.  They had her (Katie) wearing what looked like skinny jeans yet they were baggy on her frame.  I think she lost so much weight due to her fashion stuff and I'm sure her protein intake this past summer has increased to accommodate her training so it should balance out in terms of her general health.  It was jarring, though, during that episode when I realized just how thin she'd gotten.  That was one of the things I talked to my friend's boss at Comic Con and he'd been really concerned about her health since noticing the weight loss too but, once I explained the fashion stuff and my friend (who does amateur modeling and is skinnier than Katie) backed it up, he understood.  He still thinks she doesn't need to be that thin, which I agree with, but said he'd give her the benefit of the doubt and assume she follows a good diet to keep her healthy while maintaining the weight she desires.

 

I'm glad she took her training seriously but the story itself has not done Laurel any favors in terms of laying the foundation for the transition to becoming a vigilante, so Katie can only do so much.  I do agree that her training needs to include something that benefits her legs as well as her arms, unless the plan is to only show her fighting from the waist up, which may very well be the case.

[willpwr]

Q: Have you been secretly training in the hope it might happen?
A: No, I work out a lot in general, but just because I enjoy it and not because I'm training behind the scenes on some kick-ass stunts.

 

“It’s something I’ve been looking forward to,” Cassidy said over the phone last week while on a beach in Malibu, Calif. “I’ve definitely started preparing myself, as I know my character will turn into Black Canary at some point, but I don’t know when, exactly. Physically I’m trying to get in the best shape possible. I’m looking forward to the fight training.”

 

She's aware that there's a difference between fight training and her regular workouts. I have a feeling she'll do fight training when she reads the comics which is when/if she's BC. When she was promoting S1 I don't understand why she said she had fight and stunt training for Supernatural and lied about reading the comics. The following was from last year when she claimed to have fight training, yet this year she says she hasn't had fight training.

 

It’s a peach of a role and, as Katie says, ‘Laurel is lovely and I couldn’t be happier playing her. When I initially read the pilot, there were so many elements I was drawn to. I was infatuated with the depth [of Laurel’s character] – she’s gone through so much in her life. She’s driven and hard-working but you also see moments where she’s vulnerable and fragile and she has such a good heart. She’s an enormous amount of fun to play.’
This being an action series, however, Katie gets to flex her actual muscles alongside her emotional ones. ‘I have had fight training for the show,’ she says. ‘When I was on Supernatural I played a demon hunter and so I had to do a lot of fight scenes then, too. I do a lot of my own stunts, so I try to stay as fit as I possibly can.

[apinknightmare]

If only biceps could make Laurel a more interesting person...

[olicityfan25]

She is in shape but, her legs are stick thin. They should be working on her legs more. Not her arms.

[ostentatious]

And you know she didn't have this training because? Just from her twitter? She's doing pull ups that seems very cross fitish to me. I mean in my experience no amount of training will alter her "body type", there is such a thing as genetics, which is why I've said many times I think she was just miscast. She's the wrong look, the wrong vibe for what they CLAIM they conceive the character to be, and no one working in the Arrow building has made any attempt to reconcile Dinah Laurel Lance comic book badass who is in now way a lawyer, with wishy washy super bitchy do gooding law abiding until she is blackmailing and randomly alcoholic Laurel, no one attempts to reconcile what the writers Tell us on screen/off with what the director/actress Show us on screen.

I don't hate KC, I think with good writing, backgrounding, and time Laurel could be a good character and possibly eventually a great Canary, I am open to that, but I'm incredibly skeptical of that happening because I think the writers and producers have no clue who Laurel Lance is, or should be, they have given me no indication they know what is wrong with Laurel or how they should fix it.

OMG, blixie! Hey girl! This is ostentatious!

Not just from her Twitter, but from looking into her trainer's technique. He's a lose weight and tone up trainer. If she had any other trainer, I think she'd be talking about it, considering how much she talks about this guy, and has for the last year.

But yeah, the problem is that the role was misconceived, and she was doubly miscast. She isn't appropriate for the Moral Compass source of radiant goodness that the role was unfortunately conceived as originally, and she isn't appropriate for the character from the comics, either. The most enjoyable she has been was when she rightfully went off on Oliver and Sara for eyebanging one another across her dining room table. That is work the actress can do, and for once the character and the situation came together to ring true emotionally.

I just think that if she is going to bother with training, it would be more worthwhile to train so that she could be more convincing in fight scenes, not so that her arms look better. I think she has focused on what she thinks are are aesthetic improvements, but the problem is that she is now going to be compared to a woman who is both a dancer and a jock. It's about what I can believe her body can DO, not about what it looks like. Her movement, her way of occupying space.

I can like her, though. It will help enormously if the dynamic with Ted is funny and sexy. I would really like to see him as the kind of guy who will push her buttons and enjoy the response. Tommy got on with her because he would just roll over and cute her out of her bitchy moods. I would like to see Ted as the kind of guy who just provokes her harder. She needs shaking up and she needs a guy who isn't afraid of her.

And yeah, I agree that lower body work is needed. I have a hard time believing the show/network wants her at her thinnest. If they had, they would've costumed her more revealingly in S2 than in S1 instead of the other way around. I really felt they were trying to mask thinness in S2, if in fact she had lost that much weight then. They did not seem to want us to see her body in S2.

Edited October 3, 2014 by thecatbastet

[Velocity23]

I am wondering if KC is willing to work on her lower body? Could she perceive it as something that would interfere with her fashion/modelling business. I always wondered why she never invited EBR or Caity to take part on her fashion site. Those girls have more defined lower body.

[blixie]

Haha LOVE you ostentatious!

 

 

I just think that if she is going to bother with training, it would be more worthwhile to train so that she could be more convincing in fight scenes, not so that her arms look better.

I think years of Smidget's weak ass punches as inured me to that as an issue, though obvs the whole idea of Buffy was she didn't look like an ass kicker. In general I never really notice the stunt people being subbed in and that's their job, I don't hold it against any actor for saying EH fuck it that's what the stunt people are for, nor can I blame them for working their asses literally off, it's damn fucked up industry. What I blame are the executive producers for putting KC right next to someone who was clearly cast for her immediate believability as a bad ass fighter, and for her experience doing stunts/parkour.

 

Like in every respect I think they set Katie up to fail, if I were her I'd be going to my agent looking for a way out. The CW loves her still they'll just stick her on another show in a year and half.

 

One of biggest issues with Laurel is the same one I sometimes have with the show, she's not allowed to be FUN, and Katie played Ella Sims the FUNNEST, so yeah hopefully the Ted Grant storyline, will give her that chance, which I only ever saw flashes of with Tommy. I thought Katie's best work was with Colin and investigating and getting gaslit by Blood, so I know it's possible to watch Laurel and not roll my eyes.

[catrox14]

So Cassidy firmly believes she'll be the Black Canary. I swear to gods that will make me quit the show.

 

ETA: LOLWUT

 

When I was on Supernatural I played a demon hunter and so I had to do a lot of fight scenes then, too. I do a lot of my own stunts, so I try to stay as fit as I possibly ca

 

Does she even remember her parts? She wasn't a demon hunter. She was a demon!  

Edited October 3, 2014 by catrox14

[apinknightmare]

So Cassidy firmly believes she'll be the Black Canary. I swear to gods that will make me quit the show.

 

If this comment is regarding that interview - it's old, like mid-2013 old.

[catrox14]

If this comment is regarding that interview - it's old, like mid-2013 old.

 

Regardless if it's an old interview or not...my point stands. 

[apinknightmare]

Regardless if it's an old interview or not...my point stands. 

 

Well...okay.

[formerlyfreedom]

Folks, unless you have something new to add to the discussion, let's move on. It's the same thing over and over and over again, and it's giving the moderators vertigo.

 

Posts may be deleted.

[ostentatious]

Haha LOVE you ostentatious!

I think years of Smidget's weak ass punches as inured me to that as an issue, though obvs the whole idea of Buffy was she didn't look like an ass kicker. .. What I blame are the executive producers for putting KC right next to someone who was clearly cast for her immediate believability as a bad ass fighter, and for her experience doing stunts/parkour.

Like in every respect I think they set Katie up to fail, if I were her I'd be going to my agent looking for a way out.

Yeah, but Buffy had superpowers, so it didn't matter that she looked like she could barely lift a stake. I think that if Laurel is going to be BC they're going to have to give her superpowers too, to compete with Caity. And the fact that she has to compete with Caity is obviously 100% the fault of TPTB. Roy got a power boost that he will still be capitalizing upon, so there is precedent.

ITA that this has been a bad deal for her all around. It has to be depressing to be used to being identified by media and the audience as the favorite to finally getting a lead and finding yourself identified as the one who is dragging down the show.

She is good at a certain type of role, and I just don't see her as an actress who is ever going to be one half of a popular super couple. She doesn't have that feel to me. That isn't a bad thing. I just don't see her creating that kind of dynamic with another actor. But I do think she can be FUN. And Laurel is the anti-fun, which means that everything charismatic that she has the potential to bring to the table is ruthlessly suppressed by the show.

She is not. angelic. sweetheart. material. And from the characteristics stated but not shown of the do-gooder Laurel who bears no resemblance to the Dinah of comics, and the fact that the entire show was reconfigured to feature a character/actress who excels at being an angelic shining ray of goodness and inspiration and hope for the hero as the hero's love interest, I have to say that they were looking for tv Oliver Queen to have a very different sort of love interest than comics Oliver Queen has, and a very different sort of character than anything KC can or should be playing.

There are other ways to inspire the hero than telling him he's good and that you believe in him. Laurel/KC are more believable when they let him know he isn't good enough and doesn't measure up. Criticism is a perfectly valid way to get people up and off their butts. To quote every football coach ever, rub some dirt in it and get back in the game. Tommy responded to that approach from his love interest. He felt like the kind of guy who would spend his life trying to prove to Laurel that he's good enough, and he wasn't even a guy who had treated her badly. Oliver, though...he is clearly a guy who is only going to take that for so long, even though he actually bought that treatment of his own free will. Not everyone responds to tough love. Oliver does not. Psychologically there's something in him that responds to that from her, probably because it reminds him of his mom. Maybe he's just like his father - too bold! Maybe you're just like his mother! She's never satisfied! But Laurel, Felicity is like Raisa, she's warm and believes in him unreservedly, and that's what he wants. She IS satisfied. The tiniest quiet indication of her potential disappointment sends him scrambling like all of Laurel's righteous furies never could, because all fury does is gets his back up. Look at how he behaved when for the first time in the entire length of his acquaintance with Laurel her mask of perfection slipped. If these were real people, I would say that on some level, Oliver was satisfied with her finally being the one who failed instead of him.

They can tell me alllllll they want that pre-2007 Laurel Lance was a faith-having inspirational angel but nope, no way. She was and is a Type A. She was and is a person whose interpersonal power comes from wielding the sharp weapon of her disapproval, not the warm fuzzy hug of her approval. That is why Tommy was with her. That is what he liked. Oliver did not like it, which was why he staged passive-aggressive petty rebellions against her. I desperately hope Ted responds to her uptight disapproval by laughing his ass off and kissing her when he's still all sweaty from working out. Tommy and Oliver were both afraid of her. I don't think she wants that, but I also don't think she knows how to be any other way, so what is required is her to be herself, and the man in her life simply not be terrified of that.

Edited October 4, 2014 by thecatbastet

[dtissagirl]

I desperately hope Ted responds to her uptight disapproval by laughing his ass off and kissing her when he's still all sweaty from working out. Tommy and Oliver were both afraid of her. I don't think she wants that, but I also don't think she knows how to be any other way, so what is required is her to be herself, and the man in her life simply not be terrified of that.

If they play Laurel/Ted as a riff on Taming of the Shrew, I can see potential in myself finally warming up to Laurel via Ted's reactions/interest in her. Because Ted would be seeing her just as the *audience* does, and not as the show has been telling.