Laurel Lance: Black Canary, Black Siren.

[catrox14]

Wait, when did Laurel kill a cop?

[catrox14]

I could be wrong but what I think Catrox is referring to are the characters in the show, not how they're presented in the comics. Why woul "good doer" Laurel want to become Canary the Assassin or be like Arrow a vigilante/kikler turned hero?

That's correct Morrigan. I don't give a whit about what's going on in the comics. For me, those are completely separate things and what is canon in one does not always inform the other.  And clearly so far in the TV show Arrow, comics canon has already been put by the wayside many times if all that I read here about those differences is true.

 

So if BC is not a killer in the comics then they have already shunted that by making Sara who is Black Canary in the show a killer.

Edited September 3, 2014 by catrox14

[dtissagirl]

Wait, when did Laurel kill a cop?

 

In Blind Spot, the dirty cop pretending to be Brother Blood. She shot him to save Oliver.

[catrox14]

Ah did she kill him? I don't remember that at all.

[wonderwall]

Well she did shoot him five hundred billion times :p so I guess it's a safe bet to say he's dead

[dtissagirl]

Yep, he died. She thought it was Sebastian Blood when she shot him, but it turned out to be Officer Dirty Cop working for Blood. They never mentioned it again on the show.

 

To be fair, I honestly don't hold that against Laurel. She was being majorly gaslighted by Blood, and if she hadn't killed the dude he would have killed Oliver. I actually feel kinda bad because I think gaslighting someone is one of the most terrifying things you can do to a person, and Arrow managed to make me think it was funny because I can't relate to Laurel at all.

[wonderwall]

This show has a precedence for showing how badly a first kill affects a person. They're doing it with Roy, and they sort of did it with Sara and Oliver (after Oliver stressed that Sara shouldn't kill Ivo because it changes a person, thereby insinuating that it started to change Oliver from that innocent(ish) boy to the man that he became after the island). 

 

This show told me that the first kill is always the most important and holds the most weight and changes a person. I didn't see that with Laurel which is why I sort of hold it against her. It should've changed her. But no, she went back to normal and that made her look kind of like a sociopath to me. lol IDK I guess some people hold more weight to certain scenes than others. 

Edited September 3, 2014 by wonderwall

[catrox14]

Thanks for the reminders. I just did not remember that at all.

 

So, let's see, not only is Laurel a flip flopping flip flopper about who she's really in love with, flip-flops on whether she loves or hates her sister and is a drunk driver, a killer and a blackmailer. But the show never addresses any of those things in a meaningful way other than her going to AA. She didn't even have to do community service for the drunk driving because ..oh yeah her boss wiped it away.

 

OMG.  She's Gwen Cooper. /head desk

[wonderwall]

Even Felicity almost had a mini freak out when she thought she killed the Clock King before figuring out he was alive. 

 

Yep, it just seems to me that the writers nor the EPs give a crap about Laurel. Everything else is more important than her (Case in point, cutting out that 30 second scene that could've helped make Laurel look a teensy bit better in the finale). 

[catrox14]

I seriously think I understand completely the problem with Laurel, which is the same problem with Gwen Cooper on Torchwood.  They could never let Gwen just be a flawed character with issues and shitty behavior because she never suffered much consequence for her actions and was ultimately rewarded for her bad behavior.

 

And in that case, Russell T Davies was so enamored with the perky spunky Gwen Cooper being a hero that they couldn't let her do bad things and have her own those bad things.

 

I see a similar thing with Laurel. She does some bad things, doesn't really suffer, blames other people for her problems, and is somehow now being rewarded with Sara's jacket?  Before you know it, she'll be firing up a rocket launcher.  But at least in Gwen Cooper's case she did have some firearms training....

 

sorry but jeez come on show! Just let Laurel be a jerk and I can get on board with hating her for being a jerk.

Edited September 3, 2014 by catrox14

[apinknightmare]

Well she did shoot him five hundred billion times :p so I guess it's a safe bet to say he's dead

 

And strangely enough, of course the alcoholic/addict is the only person on this show who can actually hit her target when she's shooting a gun.

Edited September 3, 2014 by apinknightmare

[catrox14]

Was she already the addict when that happened? I ask because I could never really tell when Laurel was acting like an addict and when she wasn't.

[apinknightmare]

Was she already the addict when that happened? I ask because I could never really tell when Laurel was acting like an addict and when she wasn't.

 

Haha, yes. She lost her job because of it at the end of that episode.

[BkWurm1]

I could be wrong but what I think Catrox is referring to are the characters in the show, not how they're presented in the comics. Why woul "good doer" Laurel want to become Canary the Assassin or be like Arrow a vigilante/kikler turned hero?

 

Oh, I see what your saying now.  The Canary that Laurel knows and the Arrow that Laurel knows are both killers so her desire to emulate either of them is to also embrace the idea of being a killer. 

 

I really don't know how much killing BC did in the comics or not since she did at least one time swap places with someone in the LoA (which I would think would entail some wetwork) but yeah, what happened in the comics and who BC was or wasn't in the comics shouldn't be the driving factor in explaining why Laure would choose to take up the mask.

 

I've never been able to come up with a logical reason why she would turn her back on what she brings now to the team that the team can't do (access to all the lawyer and legal stuff) when there is no need for another fighter on the streets.  They have that covered. 

[Starfish35]

Yep, it just seems to me that the writers nor the EPs give a crap about Laurel. Everything else is more important than her (Case in point, cutting out that 30 second scene that could've helped make Laurel look a teensy bit better in the finale).

Didn't I see somewhere that actually most of the deleted scenes that have been released have been Laurel scenes? Which...if that's true, that kind of tells you something right there.

Edited September 3, 2014 by Starfish35

[catrox14]

Haha, yes. She lost her job because of it at the end of that episode.

Oh... okay I remember that scene but I seriously could not remember anything before that. To be fair,  I guess I have a "Blind Spot" about Laurel because I generally roll my eyes during her scenes....

[Morrigan2575]

Didn't I see somewhere that actually most of the deleted scenes that have been released have been Laurel scenes? Which...if that's true, that kind of tells you something right there.

Yes, most of the deleted scenes from S1 DVDs were Laurel related; either Laurel or O/L scenes. I don't know if that means most of the deleted scenes were Laurel related or just that they chose to put all the Laurel scenes on the DVD.

Edited September 3, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[writersblock51]

Laurel's moral compass needle spins around constantly, so I can see how the show could have her embrace the vigilante attitude without a single regret.  And when the audience voices their concerns and questions, the EPs will blink in the light and wonder what the fuss is about.  Because they're pretty sure they've been writing her story this way from Day 1, and we're finally seeing it all come to together.

 

Count me among the ones that don't care how the characters are in the comics compared to the show.  The pilot established things as Alternate Universe immediately for me. 

[foreverevolving]

 

OMG.  She's Gwen Cooper. /head desk

I disagree. she is not Gwen Cooper. she is even worse than Gwen Cooper.

Edited September 3, 2014 by foreverevolving

[statsgirl]

 

Well she did shoot him five hundred billion times :p so I guess it's a safe bet to say he's dead

See, Black Canary in her sights already.

 

 

I've never been able to come up with a logical reason why she would turn her back on what she brings now to the team that the team can't do (access to all the lawyer and legal stuff) when there is no need for another fighter on the streets.  They have that covered.

They're really grasping at straws for her character now. They want her because she's Dinah Laurel Lance, but they can't fit her.  Not to mention, the show would be better without her. 

 

I remember Willow Smith (Will Smith's daughter) saying in interview a couple of years ago when she'd recorded a song at age 12 that everyone 12 year old should record like that, with no sense that her life is different than all the other 12 year old girls out there.

 

That's what I meant referring to Hollywood royalty, the idea that special things come to you without having to work to get there . Gwyneth Paltrow's parents were established in Hollywood, I think Angelina Jolie made it more on her own efforts than her father's name (although it will be different for her kids)  but while David and Shaun Cassidy weren't that big, Jack Cassidy was pretty big and Shirley Jones was huge (Carousel, Oklahoma, Music Man, Elmer Gantry ... she was the go-to for the best roles.)  I'm sure Katie Cassidy's lawyers are the best, and I'd guess that she's had opportunities based on her name that another actress of the same calibre wouldn't have.

 

From the spoiler's thread:

There was no KC is episode 6 and 8 in previous season as well. Looks like they are keeping up with the tradition

.

That's what I mean, special status.  Would anyone else in the cast be written around so she/he could attend N.Y. Fashion Week?

[icandigit]

 

That's what I mean, special status.  Would anyone else in the cast be written around so she/he could attend N.Y. Fashion Week?

Shhh. Don't say anything they might change their minds. It is something  to look to forward to now every season. Lol.

Edited September 4, 2014 by icandigit

[Chaser]

Its the logic of Laurel as Black Canary that I find hard to understand. Yes, I'm worried about the motivation to become the Black Canary because I don't know if the writers can think of a why to do it without costing Sara her identity or her life (I just have flashbacks to Smallville: Lois Lanes introduction to the Daily Planet still makes me so angry and the way they just threw Chloe out of there). But say they fix the motivation problem, how to solve the fact that the Black Canary is supposed to be this bad ass martial artist and Laurel is close to or turning 30 with only self defense lessons to her name. Not even the best self defense lessons because she can't seem to get herself out of any situation with help. Even with training, she still has a full time job so how much training can she be getting in? It would take more then 5 years. And Oliver and Sara learned to fight in order to survive, as far as I could see Laurel would just be learning to defend herself. 

Edited September 4, 2014 by 10Eleven12

[TanyaKay]

Shhh. Don't say anything they might change their minds. It is something  to look to forward to now every season. Lol.

 

I totally agree, the Laurel Lance free episodes were wonderful. Still my two fav episodes. In fact the less we see of Laurel in an episode, the better it becomes by default. .

Edited September 4, 2014 by TanyaKay

[willpwr]

What if Laurel takes up the BC role because Sara becomes White Canary? I thought there was something mentioned about something terrible happening that causes Roy and Sara to get closer. CH mentioned that he and Oliver would be at odds at some point during the season. CL also mentioned that she wanted Sara to go evil because it would be fun. KC keeps talking about being a do-gooder. I can honestly picture Laurel deciding to take up the BC role because she thinks Sara's jacket has magical powers and she has a very high opinion of her fighting/self defense skills and eventually getting killed at the end of the season after she realizes that she can't have the life her sister leads and then Sara becomes BC again. Or Laurel doesn't die, realizes she's no match for Sara and becomes Manhunter.

[calliope1975]

For me, I just haven't seen any reasons for Laurel to take up any mantle, be it BC, Manhunter, or Power Girl, because the motivation isn't there. If they really go with "my sister's really cool and I want to be like her", well, I suppose that's a reason but I don't know if it's a good reason. Not one I particularly want to root for or support. 

 

And I don't think the reason has to be profound - I'm not sure what Felicity or Diggle's reasons are other than it's the right thing to do they want to make a difference using their preferred skill set. I just haven't seen the build up with Laurel to reach that conclusion. Not with her personality and the avenues to fight crime that she already has available to her. 

 

I'm afraid the writers are going to skip any logical motivation, rush everything (like they did with Roy), and expect the audience to accept it. I would love to be proven wrong.

[Chaser]

They have written themselves into a corner with Laurel. I don't think they can create an organic path to the Black Canary. Its sad, but its their own fault. They spent so much time writing Laurel the Love Interest and not enough time laying the groundwork for BC. 

 

Honestly, I think thats why KC has so much trouble explaining Laurel to the audience. They had a basic outline for Laurel but no real details. And then when the majority of the audience didn't take to the character or their established pairing, they had to throw what little they had for her out and start over. KC still sounds like she is speaking in board terms regarding Laurel. She isn't focusing on what is happening now in the show. 

[willpwr]

I don't know, I've always thought that an actor is responsible for their character, in finding their voice, motivation, etc and talking to the writers and producers about how they feel their character would behave, such as when SA remind the writers Oliver doesn't drink. A few of them have discussed their meetings with producers in regards to possible storylines such as JB talking them out of making Malcolm Oliver's dad because he and his partner felt it didn't make sense. I would imagine they've had these kind of discussions with KC as well.

[pootlus]

I think some shows, with exec producers who seem to actually take an interest in making a coherent plot/background for their characters and direct the writers thusly, probably make it much easier on the actors.

 

Arrow's EPs clearly make shit up as they go along and change stuff around - frequently after the actors have developed a backstory for their characters.  Now most of the actors on the show have been able to rise above it, KC hasn't.  It's not really her fault that she expected the EPs to have a plan in developing her character when they clearly didn't, but now she knows where it's at she really needs to be putting more effort in to make Laurel a) three-dimensional and b) appealing.

[TanyaKay]

I don't know, I've always thought that an actor is responsible for their character, in finding their voice, motivation, etc and talking to the writers and producers about how they feel their character would behave, such as when SA remind the writers Oliver doesn't drink. A few of them have discussed their meetings with producers in regards to possible storylines such as JB talking them out of making Malcolm Oliver's dad because he and his partner felt it didn't make sense. I would imagine they've had these kind of discussions with KC as well.

 

For that, Katie Cassidy has to be involved in her character and her story arc. The way I see it, she believes in phoning in her lines and that's it. She seems more interested in wearing 56 rings, getting facelifts in her mid twenties, pimping every freebie she gets on social media and dying her hair a different shade every season.

To top it all, she takes home a hefty check without much effort, why bother.

[wonderwall]

Based on her interviews KC is more interested in playing someone kickass than someone more nuanced and complex. That's part of the issue I suppose. 

[TanyaKay]

^^^

true that.

In that case, her true calling should be WWE and not prime time tv and acting.

[Chaser]

In that way I do feel bad for her, she probably thought she was playing a kick ass Black Canary and on her way to dethroning Nina Dobrev as the leading lady of the CW. If I remember correctly, she was much more enthused about the show at the beginning; doing interviews and SA and her were posting a lot on social media. However as the audience and critics cooled to her character, she focused more on her fashion and started dialing back on Arrow. Which I feel is the opposite of what she should have done; she should be focusing on Laurel. I think I would be able to appreciate KC more if she would be Team Laurel before Oliver/Laurel and Black Canary. That's something I've always like about actresses like EBR or Alison Mack, they are/were about their characters before anything else. 

Edited September 4, 2014 by 10Eleven12

[Morrigan2575]

I think some shows, with exec producers who seem to actually take an interest in making a coherent plot/background for their characters and direct the writers thusly, probably make it much easier on the actors.

 

Arrow's EPs clearly make shit up as they go along and change stuff around - frequently after the actors have developed a backstory for their characters.  Now most of the actors on the show have been able to rise above it, KC hasn't.  It's not really her fault that she expected the EPs to have a plan in developing her character when they clearly didn't, but now she knows where it's at she really needs to be putting more effort in to make Laurel a) three-dimensional and b) appealing.

I've come to the conclusion/opinion that one of KC's big problems is that she doesn't pay attention to the story the writers are telling.  Yes we know that the writers have changed directions, we know from recent cons that both CL and Manu were caught off guard by some developments in their characters (pertaining to romances) that left the characters actions rather disjointed.  However there is one thing that CL said that seems to have confirmed my beliefs.  At Dragon*Con CL mentioned you come up with back-story for your characters and then the writers put something in the script that's totally different and you just have to throw your preconceived concept out the window and go with what the writers put in the script.

 

If you look at KC's interviews from July 2012 (post pilot, pre 102 filming) and then look at her comments from May 2013 (post S1 finale) and her comments from May 2014 (post S2 finale) you'll see they're nearly identical in terms of who she thinks Laurel is and what she thinks of the O/L relationship.  In an October 2012 interview she's asked about what Laurel would think of Oliver if she found out he was the Hood, her answer she'd love him even more.  Asked in May 2014 what Laurel thinks of Oliver now that she knows he's the Arrow...she'd love him even more.

 

I think KC formed an impression of who her character is, what she'll become and the fact that O/L are OTP from the pilot and hasn't adapted her portrayal of the character to what's going on in the show.  That's why her answers are so different from everyone else.  In May 2014 she gives an interview saying O/L are soul-mates and OTP and a week later SA gives an interview and when asked if he thinks O/L are soul-mates his answer is I don't see a path forward from them beyond friendship.  We know at the time that the cast had all talked with the EPs about their characters in S3.

 

The other issue, IMO is that KC isn't a very strong actor, she has a limited range and Laurel is way outside of her range.  She's a one note actress, mostly playing snarky/bitchy characters.  She's not capable of adding warmth to her character or laying her performance with several emotions.  Look at the S2 finale, in her scenes with Slade EBR clearly portrays someone who is scared/frightened but at the same time you see and underlying courage/strength.  Same scene, Laurel is one emotion and only one emotion at any given time.  Again, these are JMO.

Edited September 4, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[writersblock51]

 

I think KC formed an impression of who her character is, what she'll become and the fact that O/L are OTP from the pilot and hasn't adapted her portrayal of the character to what's going on in the show.  That's why her answers are so different from everyone else.  In May 2014 she gives an interview saying O/L are soul-mates and OTP and a week later SA gives an interview and when asked if he thinks O/L are soul-mates his answer is I don't see a path forward from them beyond friendship.  We know at the time that the cast had all talked with the EPs about their characters in S3.

 

Morrigan2575, I couldn't agree more.  This - and the interviews you mentioned - give a lot of credence to this theory.   I think the character of Laurel would benefit in her scenes if KC figured out how to work with the changes in direction.  As you pointed out, these may require acting skills that are not her strengths, though. 

 

I do wonder if KC watches the entire episodes, any of the episodes, or just certain scenes (such as the ones she's in).  I konw that other members of the cast watch a lot of the show, sometimes together.  I'm curious if her viewing habits contribute to the disconnect.

 

In retrospect, I think the character of Laurel was hamstrung from the beginning.  Not an impossible role to play, however.  But she definitely had 'layers' that could have been far more interesting to watch develop. 

[blixie]

 

CL mentioned you come up with back-story for your characters and then the writers put something in the script that's totally different and you just have to throw your preconceived concept out the window and go with what the writers put in the script.

With due respect that is apples and oranges when you compare how Sara has been written and how Laurel has been written. Honestly I don't think CL is that great an actor I found her *painful* in the Lance family flashback, and if she went evil I think she'd do a terrible job. I think she's likable, and winning, but more importantly what she's been given just plays better to me as a fully formed character. I've seen her *coherent* backstory, I've been given her POV, to this day I don't think I've seen either from Laurel in two years. It's strange to spend way more time/care developing a supporting/guest character than your female lead. IMO KC's bigger problem is playing ONLY what is on the page, when what's on the page sucks. She hasn't recalibrated her performance to give it the layers and depth that aren't being given to her by the scripts. Hee I feel like in any given situation, KC first instinct is I should play this like a pissed off bitch, which is great when you are a vixen or demon or a spoiled princess, but less so when you are supposed to be a beloved comic book heroine.

 

As far as her being attached to the idea that L/O is OTP and Laurel is Black Canary, well I'm sure that was the bill of goods she was sold, for all I know they are STILL telling her that behind closed doors. I'm sure they're all your time will come! That isn't that different than what they've told the press: STAY TUNED Laurel will be awesome SOON we promise! Like Sleepy Hollow and Katrina I just can not believe these writers and producers give a single damn about making Laurel make sense, if they were really interested in the character and in people LIKING the character they wouldn't have made an incoherent mess of their stories. I can't blame KC for hanging Laurel's hat on the two things the producers gave her in the beginning because they've given her literally NOTHING else in the mean time. And if CC was any indication their next answer for Who IS Laurel Lance? Is, I'm my sister! Oof.

[TanyaKay]

I've come to the conclusion/opinion that one of KC's big problems is that she doesn't pay attention to the story the writers are telling.  Yes we know that the writers have changed directions, we know from recent cons that both CL and Manu were caught off guard by some developments in their characters (pertaining to romances) that left the characters actions rather disjointed.  However there is one thing that CL said that seems to have confirmed my beliefs.  At Dragon*Con CL mentioned you come up with back-story for your characters and then the writers put something in the script that's totally different and you just have to throw your preconceived concept out the window and go with what the writers put in the script.

 

If you look at KC's interviews from July 2012 (post pilot, pre 102 filming) and then look at her comments from May 2013 (post S1 finale) and her comments from May 2014 (post S2 finale) you'll see they're nearly identical in terms of who she thinks Laurel is and what she thinks of the O/L relationship.  In an October 2012 interview she's asked about what Laurel would think of Oliver if she found out he was the Hood, her answer she'd love him even more.  Asked in May 2014 what Laurel thinks of Oliver now that she knows he's the Arrow...she'd love him even more.

 

I think KC formed an impression of who her character is, what she'll become and the fact that O/L are OTP from the pilot and hasn't adapted her portrayal of the character to what's going on in the show.  That's why her answers are so different from everyone else.  In May 2014 she gives an interview saying O/L are soul-mates and OTP and a week later SA gives an interview and when asked if he thinks O/L are soul-mates his answer is I don't see a path forward from them beyond friendship.  We know at the time that the cast had all talked with the EPs about their characters in S3.

 

The other issue, IMO is that KC isn't a very strong actor, she has a limited range and Laurel is way outside of her range.  She's a one note actress, mostly playing snarky/bitchy characters.  She's not capable of adding warmth to her character or laying her performance with several emotions.  Look at the S2 finale, in her scenes with Slade EBR clearly portrays someone who is scared/frightened but at the same time you see and underlying courage/strength.  Same scene, Laurel is one emotion and only one emotion at any given time.  Again, these are JMO.

 

That is my biggest grouse against KC, that she could not care less about Laurel Lance.

She is always more invested in being/becoming the Green Arrow's love interest than a fully formed character on her own. She never really talks about the character she is playing (a lawyer with a multitude of issues), it is always about what she will become (kick ass crime fighter and Green Arrow's better half). If she cannot be interested in what she is doing, she cannot really expect other people to be interested in that.

[wingster55]

I don't see how her wanting to be Black Canary is a detriment to her investment in Laurel.

[wonderwall]

I think it's nice to see KC wanting Laurel to be BC, at least she has some motivation towards her character. But what's not so nice to see is the fact that KC wants to play BC because she's kickass and strong and no other reason. Laurel =/= BC just as Oliver =/= GA. Laurel becoming BC doesn't fix the issues Laurel has (wishy-washy, half baked, inconsistent etc.). I wish KC was more invested in LAUREL than BC. 

[wingster55]

She may view BC as an extension of Laurel. Her civilian identity is that of a lawyer but the show hasn't really portrayed that well imo. It does do action sequences really well...can't blame her for wanting a piece of that.

Plus it may fix issues. Give her more of a purpose, make her stronger etc.

[willpwr]

I think the detriment is that she's not fully invested in who Laurel is at the moment and is more interested in who she will become. She doesn't seem to have put any thought in how her character gets from point A to point B. I can't even say she's put any thought into BC because as she herself said, she's not going to do her research on BC until Laurel becomes BC so it seems that pretty much all she knows is that BC is a kickass superhero and that this is an "edgy and cool" show so she wants to be edgy and cool.

[wonderwall]

@wingster55, I don't blame her for wanting that either tbqh. I do like that she wants Laurel to be BC and is excited about it. But like you said, BC is an extension to Laurel. Laurel isn't a very great character as I've stated before, so if you plop in the BC extension, it doesn't really make Laurel a better character, it just makes her badass along with all those other terrible traits which could taint the BC image. 

 

It's like building a house with a terrible foundation, unfortunately. 

[statsgirl]

I'm afraid the writers are going to skip any logical motivation, rush everything (like they did with Roy), and expect the audience to accept it. I would love to be proven wrong.

They rushed making  Roy a full member of the team but they didn't rush his motivation. He was saving people in the Glades from early on and since the Hood saved him, he's been trying to make himself like him.

 

Laurel's best motivation was Tommy's death and they blew that.  KC could still do it, wanting to become like Sara so that she could not only prosecute criminals, she could wreak havoc on those who get off, but KC would have to play two notes for that.

 

Based on her interviews KC is more interested in playing someone kickass than someone more nuanced and complex. That's part of the issue I suppose. 

 

The other issue, IMO is that KC isn't a very strong actor, she has a limited range and Laurel is way outside of her range.  She's a one note actress, mostly playing snarky/bitchy characters.  She's not capable of adding warmth to her character or laying her performance with several emotions.  Look at the S2 finale, in her scenes with Slade EBR clearly portrays someone who is scared/frightened but at the same time you see and underlying courage/strength.  Same scene, Laurel is one emotion and only one emotion at any given time.  Again, these are JMO.

That may be why she wants to play Laurel kick-ass rather than conflicted, nuance prosecuting attorney and old friend of Oliver Queen.  It's easier and more in her current skill set.

 

 

As far as her being attached to the idea that L/O is OTP and Laurel is Black Canary, well I'm sure that was the bill of goods she was sold, for all I know they are STILL telling her that behind closed doors. I'm sure they're all your time will come! 

Maybe in terms of becoming the Black Canary but she can't still think she's going to be Oliver's OTP if she's been listening to any of the interviews coming out starting with SDCC.  It's Hollywood, it's PR, and if you don't know people lie all the time or spin things and then change their minds, you're going to drown.

 

I don't see how her wanting to be Black Canary is a detriment to her investment in Laurel.

Because in order for Laurel to become a believable Black Canary, she has to make Laurel the best she can possibly be.  And she's not, which is why there is such a problem now that Caity Lotz has done such a good job.  I know I've said it before but KC should have started working out when the series was green-lighted so that by season 3 she would physically have been believable as a future BC, and she should have been reading the comics to find out all she could have about how AK and MG saw the BC.  If your eye is only on the horizon, you're going to trip over a rock in the road right in front of you.

Edited September 4, 2014 by statsgirl

[Password]

With due respect that is apples and oranges when you compare how Sara has been written and how Laurel has been written. Honestly I don't think CL is that great an actor I found her *painful* in the Lance family flashback, and if she went evil I think she'd do a terrible job. I think she's likable, and winning, but more importantly what she's been given just plays better to me as a fully formed character. I've seen her *coherent* backstory, I've been given her POV, to this day I don't think I've seen either from Laurel in two years. It's strange to spend way more time/care developing a supporting/guest character than your female lead. IMO KC's bigger problem is playing ONLY what is on the page, when what's on the page sucks. She hasn't recalibrated her performance to give it the layers and depth that aren't being given to her by the scripts. Hee I feel like in any given situation, KC first instinct is I should play this like a pissed off bitch, which is great when you are a vixen or demon or a spoiled princess, but less so when you are supposed to be a beloved comic book heroine.

I agree, Sara was written fairly consistently in comparison to Laurel. I feel sorry for Laurel because her reactions aren't always what she might do, but what the plot dictates to her to do. I also agree that Caity's acting wasn't that fantastic but again, consistency and being badass covered for that.

However I do emphasise fairly because some of the things in season 2 made me go Sara whaaaaa. They haven't done a good job with Laurel at all, and it's a shame because the building blocks are there for her to be a great character.

I hope season 3 brings more consistency for her and they chop terrible lines from her repertoire. When she's independent of Oliver She's fine.

If they are whispering in KC's ear that Laurel and Oliver are otp then that is a darn shame.

[Orion]

I don't see how her wanting to be Black Canary is a detriment to her investment in Laurel.

 

Because she's so focused on wanting the Black Canary title that she is forgetting that Black Canary is alias. If they make her BC she is and always will be Laurel Lance first.  It doesn't matter what mask the characters put on, it's the person under the hood that matters, that is who people relate to and cheer for. No one looks at Oliver and only sees only the Arrow, well all see the guy who was stranded in hell for 5 years, who was tortured and broken but fought to get back to his family and to right his fathers wrongs. We look at Sara and see beyond the BC to the woman who was shipwrecked and forced to kill in order to survive and is haunted by it. We see Roy beyond Arsenal and his anger at people being hurt in the Glades, his desire to fight back against them and his transformation when the Arrow saves him. We see Diggle and his need to keep what happened to Andy from happening to another family.

 

With Laurel she's a flat canvas and KC keeps telling us about how great being the BC will be instead of adding color and spice to Laurel. How can I cheer for someone that is completely inconsistent from one scene to another? Who is rude and mean to just about every person she has encounter (Quentin, Dinah, Sara, Oliver, Tommy).  Someone who makes most situations about herself instead of the other person. 

 

We know SA went to the writers and voiced concerns about Oliver hooking up with every woman on the show. KC could absolutely have done that if she had a problem with how Laurel was being written. She could have layered her emotions to show someone conflicted or sympathetic. Instead she's hand waved problems with Laurel's story and continues to bring interviews back to I have the jacket and I'm working out.

 

It's not a race to see who gets to the character finish line first, it's all about the journey and Laurel/KC just hasn't interested me in her journey. I wish it was different, I'm all for fantastic female characters but it's not and I'm left 46 episode in with complete and utter frustration with that character.

[TanyaKay]

Looks like they are still trying to sell her as Canary.

 

http://comicbook.com/blog/2014/09/03/arrow-executive-producer-confirms-laurel-as-black-canary/

[Chaser]

I only read Laurel news because I worry about how it will affect the characters I care about it; that is sad.

Edited September 5, 2014 by 10Eleven12

[BkWurm1]

It still just says Canary so really, same old same old. 

[wonderwall]

That article was just quoting what TVline said. And TVline just made an assumption that Laurel was going to become BC. MG didn't say it, or else that quote would've been directly quoted. Just sayin'

[Morrigan2575]

That article was just quoting what TVline said. And TVline just made an assumption that Laurel was going to become BC. MG didn't say it, or else that quote would've been directly quoted. Just sayin'

Yeah and that's what I hate about bloggers, comicbook.com put the whole thing in quotes and titled the post that the EPs seemingly confirmed Laurel as BC but if you read the TV|Line article it's obvious that it wasn't a quote and it's even more obvious that TV|Line simply took information released at SDCC

Ted Grant would play an important part in Laurel's journey this year

and made their own assumptions, not saying they're wrong (I hope they are).

Edited September 5, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[Nanrad]

Overall, Laurel is an off putting character, but this parallel was very off putting to me: Laurel's reactions to seeing both Oliver and Sara for the first time. I understand that their actions had a domino effect (indirectly), but what kind of person reacts the way she did when two people who were thought to have died in a car crash come back from the dead? She didn't have welcome Oliver with open arms, but her initial reaction when they met face to face after five years, casted her in an unfavorable light. Even the way she got upset with Sara was a bit much. She had no idea what those two went through for two years to even think that such a reaction was okay. And I think I need to repeat for those who don't understand: since Laurel literally had no clue what happened to them while thought for dead, anything could've happened and having someone treat you like crap for a mistake that didn't equal the consequences is totally wrong. I understand that Laurel went through a lot of emotional pain as well as her parents separating, but again, the point is she had no idea what they'd experienced before they came home and her reaction, IMO, is even more disgusting upon further thought.