Everybody Loves Raymond - General Discussion

[Vixenstud]

Loved Peter Boyle (RIP) but never found Frank funny, thought he was an insensitive ass.

However, watched Frank's Tribute for the first time today and damn if it didn't leave me crying.

I felt for him when Marie told him why nobody liked him....but the tears came during the scene where Marie was crying over him not giving her a nice tribute like she gave him.  When he lovingly washed off her face cream then held her in his arms I lost it.  

Watched it again at work and same tears....the jackass!!

Edited November 26, 2019 by Vixenstud

[ByTor]

Funny how we all see scenes differently.  I always found that face cream scene extra cringeworthy.  It's probably the main reason that's one episode I never include on rewatches.

And speaking of episodes I never rewatch...Cruising with Marie!

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, ByTor said:

Funny how we all see scenes differently.  I always found that face cream scene extra cringeworthy.  It's probably the main reason that's one episode I never include on rewatches.

And speaking of episodes I never rewatch...Cruising with Marie!

There are a few I never rewatch that I will be like "Maybe I need to rewatch it and will find it's not so bad."  Invariably, I will find that no, they really were that bad.

But my favorites and annual tradition are by and large the Thanksgiving ones! I watched No Fat last night.  By the way, in No Fat, I don't think Raymond did anything wrong. I know the show kinda portrayed it that he did, but he wanted a traditional turkey dinner so he arranged for one to be delivered to his house after he ate Marie's "healthy" dinner. It wasn't really his fault the delivery man brought it over to the Barone's house.  If that hadn't happened, she wouldn't have known. 

Frank's line "It's the angel of mercy!" always makes me laugh.  

[ByTor]

7 minutes ago, deaja said:

By the way, in No Fat, I don't think Raymond did anything wrong.

If anybody did anything wrong it was Debra, when she said "especially Thanksgiving" about eating healthy.  Every time she says that, I say out loud "especially NOT Thanksgiving!"  That is the one day calories don't count and everybody gets a pass 🙂   And yes, Marie, butter makes me happy too!

[PennyPlain]

41 minutes ago, ByTor said:

If anybody did anything wrong it was Debra, when she said "especially Thanksgiving" about eating healthy.  Every time she says that, I say out loud "especially NOT Thanksgiving!" 

Same thing happens in the first season Thanksgiving episode when Debra cooks up a "nice striped bass".    I totally get that Thanksgiving can be a less than healthy meal but that's down to the sides and overeating, not the star of the show!  Turkey is a perfectly healthy choice - ok not deep fried of course but otherwise, nothing wrong with it!

That said I love all the holiday episodes with one exception, not to crazy about the Thanksgiving one where Pat kills the bird.  It has its moments but it just doesn't measure up the the other holiday ones.

Edited November 26, 2019 by PennyPlain

[PennyPlain]

51 minutes ago, deaja said:

I know the show kinda portrayed it that he did, but he wanted a traditional turkey dinner so he arranged for one to be delivered to his house after he ate Marie's "healthy" dinner. It wasn't really his fault the delivery man brought it over to the Barone's house.  If that hadn't happened, she wouldn't have known. 

Of course she would have known!  Marie patrols Debra's kitchen like she's a cop on the beat!  

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, PennyPlain said:

Of course she would have known!  Marie patrols Debra's kitchen like she's a cop on the beat!  

Haha... maybe. But that still wouldn't have made it Ray's fault to eat what he wanted in his own home. 🙂

[sd dude]

1 hour ago, Vixenstud said:

I felt for him when Marie told him why nobody liked him....but the tears came during the scene where Marie was crying over him not giving her a nice tribute like she gave him.  When he lovingly washed off her face cream then held her in his arms I lost it.

I don't get emotional over it, but I do appreciate the scene as the ONLY one I can think of in the entire series where Frank is gentle, tender and loving toward Marie.  There are other instances where his implied love for her is demonstrated but it is always expressed in an aggressive, sarcastic, or backhanded way - e.g. he breaks her glasses in anger when she claims they have a loveless marriage.

[PennyPlain]

8 minutes ago, deaja said:

But that still wouldn't have made it Ray's fault to eat what he wanted in his own home

Speaking of which I love the scene where Ray comes downstairs and Marie is eating a turkey leg in the kitchen.  "You know what makes me happy? Butter."

Edited November 26, 2019 by PennyPlain

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, PennyPlain said:

Speaking of which I love the scene where Ray comes downstairs and Marie is eating a turkey leg in the kitchen.  "You know what makes me happy? Butter."

"What's the point of living longer if you're miserable?"

"I ask myself that every day."

[sd dude]

17 hours ago, PennyPlain said:

21 hours ago, sd dude said:

Debra is lying in bed with her back to Ray.  Ray reaches out to touch her and she says, "No".  He keeps trying to put his hand on her and each time she says "No" in perfect time to match his movements without opening her eyes or turning to look at him.  Episode please?

I know the exact scene you mean and I'm pretty sure it's from the first season.  For some reason I keep thinking it the IQ test one - after Robert tells Ray and Debra that Ray was actually the one with the higher IQ and Debra does not handle it well.  But I could be totally wrong!

210 freakin' episodes, and TVLand plays the IQ test last night!  You were absolutely right, PennyPlain.  Good memory.  I'm sorry to say that the bit didn't seem as funny to me last night as it had in the past, but at least I don't need to lay awake at nights anymore wondering!  Many of the first few episodes are not among my favorites - feels like the supporting characters and the whole family dynamic had not yet formed into the seamless ensemble they would arrive at shortly.  That said, I recall seeing some interview with Rosenthal a while back where he claims this episode (the 4th ep of season 1) was the one where he knew they had a hit on their hands, based on the studio audience reaction to Debra dumping the ice cream in Ray's crotch.  Supposedly it was a much longer reaction than what aired in the final cut.

[ByTor]

8 minutes ago, sd dude said:

Many of the first few episodes are not among my favorites

Same.  I really hate the one where Debra's parents take the Barones out to the nice restaurant, and they all behave like boorish fools, but they call RAY out for being rude because he told them THEY were being rude.  They were!

[Vixenstud]

Just saw The Toaster....geez, I thought I obsessed over shit but Ray's got me beat!

He kept going on and on about it like a little bitch; putting the Christmas greeting with the Barone family on it was a cool addition but it wasn't the end all and be all.

[PennyPlain]

What I loved about the toaster story was that it reflected something that really happened to Phil Rosenthal.  To celebrate the success of ELR he gave engraved toasters to some friends and family and his parents traded theirs in - presumably without opening the box and seeing the engraving!  Apparently Rosenthals parents were way more the prototypes for Marie and Frank than Ray's own parents were.

Edited November 26, 2019 by PennyPlain

[Guest]

41 minutes ago, ByTor said:

Same.  I really hate the one where Debra's parents take the Barones out to the nice restaurant, and they all behave like boorish fools, but they call RAY out for being rude because he told them THEY were being rude.  They were!

The one thing I liked about that one in hindsight is that they were pretty consistent in how they wrote Ray. Over and over, we would see him try to be the peacekeeper, keep people from getting mad, and then it just lead to him losing it and creating a bigger scene than he was trying to avoid in the first place.  That episode, the T-ball episode, the Christmas picture episode - it was a recurring theme.

[ByTor]

19 minutes ago, deaja said:

the Christmas picture episode

My favorite thing from this episode...when he blurts out "Everyone get in your plaaaaace!!!" 🙂 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, ByTor said:

My favorite thing from this episode...when he blurts out "Everyone get in your plaaaaace!!!" 🙂 

I love the end where Robert makes fun of him for freaking out and then Ray tells Marie "Robert got you a hammock."

[2727]

The thing with the toaster is that Ray was so proud of himself for coming up with the idea. Everyone uses a toaster.

Everyone already HAS a toaster, Ray! The fact that it's personalized is, well, kind of dumb but also beside the point.

Maybe if it toasted in Cylon Centurion heads like Sheldon's on Big Bang Theory ...

[Guest]

20 minutes ago, 2727 said:

The thing with the toaster is that Ray was so proud of himself for coming up with the idea. Everyone uses a toaster.

Everyone already HAS a toaster, Ray! The fact that it's personalized is, well, kind of dumb but also beside the point.

Maybe if it toasted in Cylon Centurion heads like Sheldon's on Big Bang Theory ...

The most bizarre part was how everyone raved  over it like it was such a good gift. Everyone but Frank and Marie. 
 

I love the end where they cause a huge disturbance and Ray says “they do care!”

[catlover79]

13 hours ago, deaja said:

There are a few I never rewatch that I will be like "Maybe I need to rewatch it and will find it's not so bad."  Invariably, I will find that no, they really were that bad.

But my favorites and annual tradition are by and large the Thanksgiving ones! I watched No Fat last night.  By the way, in No Fat, I don't think Raymond did anything wrong. I know the show kinda portrayed it that he did, but he wanted a traditional turkey dinner so he arranged for one to be delivered to his house after he ate Marie's "healthy" dinner. It wasn't really his fault the delivery man brought it over to the Barone's house.  If that hadn't happened, she wouldn't have known. 

Frank's line "It's the angel of mercy!" always makes me laugh.  

Every time I see Marie proudly carrying in that tofurkey, I completely lose it!!! 😂

[VCRTracking]

On 11/26/2019 at 12:47 PM, deaja said:

The one thing I liked about that one in hindsight is that they were pretty consistent in how they wrote Ray. Over and over, we would see him try to be the peacekeeper, keep people from getting mad, and then it just lead to him losing it and creating a bigger scene than he was trying to avoid in the first place.  That episode, the T-ball episode, the Christmas picture episode - it was a recurring theme.

The T-ball episode is my fave, where he goes off on Brian(played by Dan Castellaneta). Such an awesme freak out:

Quote

WILL YOU SHUT UP ABOUT THE SNACK? ALL RIGHT. JUST SHUT UP ABOUT THE STUPID, FREAKING SNACK! HERE! YOU WANT THE SNACK! HERE! TAKE IT! TAKE ALL OF IT! HERE! ARE THESE HEALTHY ENOUGH FOR YOU? PLANTAINS! YOU COULDN'T JUST PUT BANANAS ON THE LIST, HUH? I ATE TWO OF THESE BEFORE I FOUND OUT YOU GOT TO COOK THEM! WHAT? YOU DON'T WANT TO SHARE T-BALL WITH ME? I DON'T WANT TO SHARE T-BALL WITH YOU, BRYAN. BY THE WAY, YOUR KID'S COSTING US THE GAME OUT THERE, OKAY? YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT! I'M KEEPING SCORE! BAD! I'M KEEPING SCORE, AND WE'RE LOSING BECAUSE YOUR KID'S OUT THERE EATING GRASSHOPPERS! OKAY? I DON'T THINK THAT'S AN APPROVED SNACK!

And right after Debra going from pissed at Bryan before the rant to being embarrassed and apologizing:

Quote

Debra: Sorry, Bryan.

Bryan(shaken): You don't have to do snacks anymore.(crosses off list)

Edited November 27, 2019 by VCRTracking

[Chai]

Im watching TVLand  and right now they have the episode where Marie drives their car right into Ray and Deb's living room. The disbelief on Debra  and delayed rage in Raymond never fails to crack me up! .  

[PennyPlain]

16 minutes ago, Chai said:

Im watching TVLand  and right now they have the episode where Marie drives their car right into Ray and Deb's living room

That was the first episode of ELR I ever saw,  Hooked me right in!

[readster]

12 hours ago, Chai said:

Im watching TVLand  and right now they have the episode where Marie drives their car right into Ray and Deb's living room. The disbelief on Debra  and delayed rage in Raymond never fails to crack me up! .  

The delayed exit of both Frank and Marie is also priceless and their looks. 

[Guest]

I know it’s obnoxious but when frank gets annoyed over their mirror breaking, I find it to be so funny.

[PennyPlain]

I can't remember exactly what Frank says  but it's something like "Say what you want about American made cars - beats a house." As he hold up a broken piece of drywall.

Edited December 2, 2019 by PennyPlain
Frank not Fran!

[ByTor]

On 11/29/2019 at 8:24 PM, Chai said:

Im watching TVLand  and right now they have the episode where Marie drives their car right into Ray and Deb's living room. The disbelief on Debra  and delayed rage in Raymond never fails to crack me up! .  

My favorite part is when a dog comes in the house and Allie asks if they can keep him and Ray says no, he'll just run away LOL!

[PennyPlain]

Just saw the episode with "traffic cop Timmy".  I like it but man Robert is a jerk.  Marie is nothing but nice and supportive to him the entire episode but who does he turn on?  Marie.  I get that Robert has baggage but jeeze louise (to quote Frank) there's a time and a place!

[jalady]

I just watched Robert and Amy's wedding episodes and something just occurred to me.  Aren't the families sitting on the wrong side of the church, etiquette wise?  I thought the groom's family usually sits on the right side (as you're walking up the aisle from the back) and the bride's on the left?  I have a vivid memory of where I sat at my uncle's wedding and that's how I always remember whose side sits where.  But the Barones and Robert's friends were all on the left side.  Was that just so the cameras got a good look at Marie when she made her speech?  Or is all that etiquette stuff out the window now, like the not wearing white before Memorial Day or after Labor Day fashion "rule"?  LOL

[Fellaway]

1 hour ago, jalady said:

I just watched Robert and Amy's wedding episodes and something just occurred to me.  Aren't the families sitting on the wrong side of the church, etiquette wise?  I thought the groom's family usually sits on the right side (as you're walking up the aisle from the back) and the bride's on the left?  I have a vivid memory of where I sat at my uncle's wedding and that's how I always remember whose side sits where.  But the Barones and Robert's friends were all on the left side.  Was that just so the cameras got a good look at Marie when she made her speech?  Or is all that etiquette stuff out the window now, like the not wearing white before Memorial Day or after Labor Day fashion "rule"?  LOL

That bugs me every time I see those eps.  I've tried to pass it off as being about camera angles for the major players, but, really, facing everything to the left of the screen with the families on the correct sides would've given them just as good of angles.

Ray's speech at the reception bugs me, too.  It comes off more to me as Ray Romano doing a comedy monologue than as Ray Barone toasting his brother.  I'm glad Robert finally married Amy and I love their dance at the end, but it's disappointing how little these eps are about Robert and Amy.  Fitting, for the show and characters, yes, but couldn't they have given this one to Robert (and his fans)?  Ah well.  I like the eps, but I kind of hate them, too.

[PennyPlain]

What I liked about that episode (aside from the awesome dance and Pat's smackdown of Marie) is how many of the Barone family friends were in the audience!  I loved that they had them there even if they didn't have any lines.  So often on shows they'll have a special event like a wedding and the room is filled with total strangers.  This is especially odd on shows like Two and A Half Men when they are always talking about how they have no friends.  Until there is a social gathering of course and then there are dozens of people around!  

[ByTor]

On 12/23/2019 at 10:04 AM, Fellaway said:

Ray's speech at the reception bugs me, too.  It comes off more to me as Ray Romano doing a comedy monologue than as Ray Barone toasting his brother.

I always thought that too, but to make myself feel better I try to think that he did that to add some levity over how awkward Marie made the wedding by pointing out all the other times she made situations awkward 🙂 

[Fellaway]

1 hour ago, ByTor said:

I always thought that too, but to make myself feel better I try to think that he did that to add some levity over how awkward Marie made the wedding by pointing out all the other times she made situations awkward 🙂 

I do agree on Ray's intent being to add levity to the situation, but I feel the humor should've sounded like Ray Barone up there and not Ray Romano, the stand-up comic.  It's my biggest quibble with Robert's wedding.  The rest didn't play out the way I would've preferred his wedding to be, but I can hand-wave it away as typical of this family.

Edited January 3, 2020 by Fellaway

[qtpye]

On 11/26/2019 at 1:30 PM, ByTor said:

Funny how we all see scenes differently.  I always found that face cream scene extra cringeworthy.  It's probably the main reason that's one episode I never include on rewatches.

And speaking of episodes I never rewatch...Cruising with Marie!

I never got that scene at all. I always thought that Frank hated Marie and probably felt like he trapped her (since she was already pregnant with Robert when they got married, but that was just as much on Frank as Marie). He probably would have happily left if anyone else could tolerate him. I always thought Marie trying to be the perfect housewife was trying to earn his love and failing. It was also probably why she leaned on Raymond so much. A lot, of mama's boys turn out that way because the mothers replaces the sons for unloving husbands.

On 11/26/2019 at 3:28 PM, PennyPlain said:

What I loved about the toaster story was that it reflected something that really happened to Phil Rosenthal.  To celebrate the success of ELR he gave engraved toasters to some friends and family and his parents traded theirs in - presumably without opening the box and seeing the engraving!  Apparently Rosenthals parents were way more the prototypes for Marie and Frank than Ray's own parents were.

In Curb Your Enthusiasm the first episode of the first season starts with Larry talking about how he hates spending time with Phil Rosenthal, because all he does is talk about his shows.

[qtpye]

This definition of a narcissistic mother is spot on for this show.

She affects him adversely in so many ways. But, the main one involves an abusive technique called Emotional Incest.

Emotional incest is when the mother transfers the position of her husband to her son. He is the embodiment of all the things she ever hoped for in a man. And he’s Hers! She turns him, as a child, into her partner.

“ It blurs the boundaries between adult and child in a way that is psychologically inappropriate. When a parent looks to their child for emotional support or treats them more like a partner than a child, it is considered emotional or “covert” incest. The outcome of this family structure often produces similar results — on a lesser scale — as sexual incest. “

Edited January 23, 2020 by qtpye

[PennyPlain]

I've just been watching the episode where Marie arranges for Stefania to come to New York to visit Robert.  Confusion.  Are Stefania and her father staying with the elder Barones?  I don't know if they ever make that clear but it seems logical to me.  

[ByTor]

2 hours ago, PennyPlain said:

I've just been watching the episode where Marie arranges for Stefania to come to New York to visit Robert.  Confusion.  Are Stefania and her father staying with the elder Barones?  I don't know if they ever make that clear but it seems logical to me.  

hmmm good question, I never thought about it.

[Guest]

22 hours ago, PennyPlain said:

I've just been watching the episode where Marie arranges for Stefania to come to New York to visit Robert.  Confusion.  Are Stefania and her father staying with the elder Barones?  I don't know if they ever make that clear but it seems logical to me.  

I kinda just assumed her father found a place he liked and told the owners "We're staying with you now." 

But I could be wrong.

[ehall1052]

On 12/23/2019 at 10:08 AM, PennyPlain said:

What I liked about that episode (aside from the awesome dance and Pat's smackdown of Marie) is how many of the Barone family friends were in the audience!  I loved that they had them there even if they didn't have any lines.  

I agree! Something that I like to do (when I have watched a program or movie many times over) is watch the expressions on the people in the background. It’s fun to see them engaged in the action even if they don’t have a speaking part. It makes the program more realistic, like it really happened.

[ByTor]

2 minutes ago, ehall1052 said:

Something that I like to do (when I have watched a program or movie many times over) is watch the expressions on the people in the background.

Me too!  And since I've seen ELR a million times, I definitely do that.  During Robert & Amy's wedding, my favorite facial expressions are from Linda and Gerard.  And I love Judy during the toast.

[ByTor]

On 1/24/2020 at 3:35 PM, deaja said:

I kinda just assumed her father found a place he liked and told the owners "We're staying with you now." 

That TOTALLY sounds like something Marco would have said.  I can almost hear the conversation now: "What happened to the owners???"  "They go away" 🙂 

 

[laurakaye]

On 11/26/2019 at 4:12 PM, deaja said:

I love the end where Robert makes fun of him for freaking out and then Ray tells Marie "Robert got you a hammock."

I just watched this one last night.  Ray's facial expressions are so good in this episode.

I've been trolling ELR re-runs so I can try and record my two all-time faves...the one where Amy and Robert give marriage counseling to Ray & Debra and Frank & Marie, and "Debra Makes Something Good."  Fun fact:  I once spent an embarrassing amount of time online trying to figure out how to spell "braciole."  And I still want to try and make it myself. 🙂

[FormerMod-a1]

Those are 2 of my favorite eps, as well.  In fact I've considered entering them for "the canon" in the Extra Hot Great podcast, but I just haven't had the time.

[PennyPlain]

1 hour ago, laurakaye said:

Fun fact:  I once spent an embarrassing amount of time online trying to figure out how to spell "braciole."  And I still want to try and make it myself. 🙂

I tried it a few years ago (without the currants I admit) and while it was good it wasn't what we were expecting.  But I guess since we were expecting something pretty damn wonderful that isn't too surprising!

[ByTor]

21 hours ago, laurakaye said:

I once spent an embarrassing amount of time online trying to figure out how to spell "braciole."  And I still want to try and make it myself.

They had me at "no" upon mention of golden raisins.  

[Beany Malone]

I'm a Johnny-Come-Lately to this show. A friend was downsizing and gave me the full series on DVD.  I can't believe I missed this show when it was in first run!  My only excuse is we were living in England until 2009 but I'm sure it must have been shown over there too.  Oh well anyway am enjoying this show very much.  If anyone else has the DVDs I'd recommend watching the bloopers and the scenes that ended up getting cut.   Very funny stuff!

[ByTor]

@Beany Malone, I was a late-comer, I didn't start watching until after the show ended.  I always thought it sounded stupid, but once I started watching it I was hooked!  

Watching Raybert now.  My favorite part...Natasha asking if her dating "Ray" is a problem, followed by Debra's deadpan, "No, there's no problem, I'm just surprised my husband has time to date."  🙂 

[laurakaye]

Just watched "Meant To Be" for probably the 50th time.  I may never take this one off my DVR.  Every single scene is perfectly played on everyone's part, especially Amy (Monica Horan), and yet I swear I see something new every time I watch it.

[Beany Malone]

Is "Meant to Be" the one where Robert chooses Amy over Stephania and Joanne (aka Cinnamon)?  If so I agree completely.  I love that Amy is NOT thrilled to be chosen and makes that very clear to Robert.  I also loved the little bits of business in the restaurant.  Robert with the hand wave "Cancel the spumoni" and the waitress coming by after Robert gets burned by the candle "who's burning fur".   Ray when Robert tells him the mark on his face was caused by the friendship ring he had given Amy, "Ironic".  It's all in the delivery.

 

[MadyGirl1987]

Watching the episode where Debra throws out the Muhammad Ali letter Ray got. It’s so stupid and contrived how the letter gets thrown out. Who in the world just throws a bunch of stuff from a drawer out without going through and making sure everything you’re tossing is trash or something nobody else might want? 

Edited April 2, 2020 by MadyGirl1987