All Episodes Talk: Better Things

[Liamsmom617]

5 hours ago, HoneyBeach said:

First time poster, long time lurker.  I had to post to say I am not a violent person, but it was all I could do not to slap that brat's face through the tv! My own teen daughter would never speak to me like this because she knows I'm her mother, not her friend. And IF anything close to this situation ever happened between us, I would not be paying her bills or fixing her chili. Even if I was home crying and praying to God she was ok, I would not let her walk all over me. She's my only child and I love her more than anything, but NO!

OMG, me too! I’m a social worker and generally a “nice person” and fairly easygoing Mom, but I was  texting my friend (who also watches)  during the show, “I fucking HATE this kid!” I will say I thought the birthday card was kind of sweet, and was impressed that Frankie (assuming that was really the voice of the actress who plays her) lwas really the actresses Voice can sings pretty well. But Jesus Christ what an entitled little cunt!

Edited May 17, 2019 by Liamsmom617

[Jeanne222]

I'll bet this is the same kind of family that pays to get these children in top colleges pretending to be scholars and trophy winners!

I'm not really sure of the point Sam is trying to make?  Is this real life in California?

[Marci]

On 5/17/2019 at 3:38 PM, pasdetrois said:

They are self-satisfied and smug about their group entitlement. 

You know, maybe you have found the answer as to why this show is portraying everything about this family in an absurd, unrealistic way.  Maybe this is just another show trying to shove the current political climate down our throats, insinuating white people are all entitled and stupid. 

[txhorns79]

9 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

But Frankie's got a lot of safety nets. Her friends' parents are not only willing to have somebody else's kid move in with them for no particular reason but when they go away on vacation they enlist grandma to come and stay with her? It doesn't occur to them to tell her she needs to leave either. Sam continues to trail after her begging even though as her shrink pointed out, she's perfectly safe. There's literally no reason to worry about her getting into trouble. She's still enjoying all the benefits Sam provides like money and tutors and a phone etc. (And a bathtub when she feels gross.)

Yeah, Frankie has the ability to live in a cloistered fantasyland where she can just leave her mother's house for a couple of weeks, for no real reason, be taken in by caring people and have a mother who takes all the crap that Frankie throws in her face, and seemingly comes back for more.  If this show existed in any kind of reality, I think Frankie's friends parents would have told her she needed to go home a long time ago, and Sam would have reigned down hell on her for the way she was acting.  

And what was up with Max and her friends just hanging out in Max's room in their underwear in the middle of the day?  Is this actually a thing that teenage girls do now?

I will say I actually did sympathize with Sam's reaction when her friend invited his boyfriend to their lunch without telling her.  That was a jerk move, IMO.    

[For Cereals]

2 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

Yeah, Frankie has the ability to live in a cloistered fantasyland where she can just leave her mother's house for a couple of weeks, for no real reason, be taken in by caring people and have a mother who takes all the crap that Frankie throws in her face, and seemingly comes back for more.  If this show existed in any kind of reality, I think Frankie's friends parents would have told her she needed to go home a long time ago, and Sam would have reigned down hell on her for the way she was acting.  

And what was up with Max and her friends just hanging out in Max's room in their underwear in the middle of the day?  Is this actually a thing that teenage girls do now?

I will say I actually did sympathize with Sam's reaction when her friend invited his boyfriend to their lunch without telling her.  That was a jerk move, IMO.    

So much all of this.  In a normal world, there would be no participating in a concert, no phones, no hanging with friends, no making special meals, no choice about staying or not staying...none of this would be tolerated.

The underwear party was weird.

[sistermagpie]

2 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

And what was up with Max and her friends just hanging out in Max's room in their underwear in the middle of the day?  Is this actually a thing that teenage girls do now?

I know! Also I still haven't gotten my questions about where all these kids come from. I know I can't just project my own life onto other people but it still seems like Max is in high school and that's why she's got all her same friends hanging around with her as if none of them went to college. Really, none of these people left home?

It was funny when the doctor told her to focus on the two kids she still had at home because one of those kids isn't supposed to be at home, sleeping with people in her bedroom so Sam can worry about whether she's going to get pregnant or not. She's probably buying her condoms.

2 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I will say I actually did sympathize with Sam's reaction when her friend invited his boyfriend to their lunch without telling her.  That was a jerk move, IMO.    

It totally was. It amazes me when people are clueless that way. I did like how when we met the guy he really did seem like Sam seemed to think of him as. He just seemed really ordinary and kind of awkward. Not in a bad way. I wouldn't hold it against him. But it wasn't like when he appeared you could tell right away what her friend saw in him.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Rich: You want me to stay single forever, just for you.
Sam: [Evan]'s 24. 
Rich: You're shtupping your therapist.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I felt for both Sam and Rich when they were having lunch. I know people are capable of multitasking and I'm fine with it if it's quick, but when you are supposed to be having lunch with your BFF, (1) don't spend the entire time making videos and sending them to your boyfriend (2) listen to your friend when she is complaining that she hasn't spoken to her teen child in over a week (3) DO NOT INVITE YOUR BOYFRIEND WITHOUT TELLING YOUR BFF AHEAD OF TIME.

I've been in a similar situation where I was supposed to meet a friend for coffee/drinks/dinner and then they showed up with their boyfriend/girlfriend/spouse. And it's not that I don't like the other person either. It's just a different dynamic if you think you're going to have one on one time with your friend versus more of a group vibe. You're not joined at the hip, so just let me know beforehand. Maybe I'll bring Mr. EB if you're going to bring your significant other! It's not a huge deal, but if you want to walk about something personal or more private, that can kind of kill it.

But I also see Rich's complaint - Sam wants him all to herself. I'm not saying she's a bad friend because she hs been shown to be very kind and generous with her friends, but I do think that she has the expectation that Rich will drop anything for her whenever she needs him.

Once again, Frankie is a pill. She just left without telling her MOTHER where she was going and has not contacted her for eight days. She is a 14 year old minor so no, that is not acceptable behavior. I know that Sam is in a tough spot because she can't make Frankie come home and she doesn't want to drive her away even more. Her only legal recourse would be to report her as a runway but even if she does that, her options are limited. She can find out where Frankie is and the police can take her home, but that will only cause more resentment and Frankie will leave the next chance she gets.

But what really gets me is Frankie's ridiculous sense of entitlement. She is acting like a brat. She refuses to tell her mom where she is, she didn't tell her why she was mad enough to leave in the first place, and then when Sam showed up at the restaurant, Frankie was rude as fuck.

And somehow Frankie manages to be polite and helpful and even help with the dishes when she's at Obsidian's house, but she is a rude, lazy brat who doesn't lift a finger to help when she's at her mom's house. And then she texts her little sister to magnanimously grant her permission to enter her bedroom - but only to fetch her homework binder. She acts like everyone in her family is there to do her bidding.

11 hours ago, Jeanne222 said:

I'm not really sure of the point Sam is trying to make?  Is this real life in California?

I can't speak for every family in California, but I grew up here, as did Mr. EB, and I can tell you that neither of us grew up like that (nor did our friends). Mr. EB's younger cousins did not grow up like that either. I'm sure that for some people, this is real life but definitely not the people I am/was friends with. I know people who were very well off growing up in California, but none of them were as blatantly rude and disrespectful as Frankie is to Sam. It's just mind boggling to me how she mouths off to her mother. I never would have dared to speak to my parents like that! The hilarious thing is that my parents thought I was such a problem child because I would complain that my curfew was too early (10pm on the weekends) and I ditched a few days in high school. If only they knew how easy they had it with me compared to someone like Frankie!

[sistermagpie]

4 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

And somehow Frankie manages to be polite and helpful and even help with the dishes when she's at Obsidian's house, but she is a rude, lazy brat who doesn't lift a finger to help when she's at her mom's house. And then she texts her little sister to magnanimously grant her permission to enter her bedroom - but only to fetch her homework binder. She acts like everyone in her family is there to do her bidding.

When Duke was reading that and looking angry I thought she was going to go into her room and do whatever she wanted. Certainly I wouldn't be fetching her homework binder for her or anything else!

That's the thing with Sam--I get her not wanting to be a big heavy and call the police or whatever, but it's hard for me to relate to somebody who would react to this by begging--exactly what Frankie insulted her for at the restaurant. She's got all these people giving her reports and feeling sorry for her while just gently tiptoeing around Frankie being an asshole. But presumably this is what Frankie is going for. If Sam acted like I would in that situation--ignoring her completely and enjoying her non-presence--Frankie would probably not get the reassurance she needs or whatever it is she needs.

I thought her card was obnoxious too, frankly. Just her showing off again how cool she was.

[Ottis]

Wasn’t the underwear party a photo shoot?

I don’t know what PA is trying to say with this show. It has a core of real issues, and then it blows them up into things I don’t recognize. 

[txhorns79]

5 hours ago, Ottis said:

Wasn’t the underwear party a photo shoot?

Was it?  Max was in her underwear too, so I was guessing not?

[Kenz]

I enjoyed the first season of this show. This season is way too over the top. I think Pamela Adlon believes she is the cutest, quirkiest actress/director/producer on tv. Her portrayal of a clueless, indulgent mother leaves me cold. If you wanted to convince someone not to have children, suggest that they watch this show. I've never been around such selfish, bratty kids as the two oldest two girls are. They all need to go to a therapist because that is a very dysfunctional household. I won't be watching the next season.

Edited May 19, 2019 by Kenz

[ElectricBoogaloo]

15 hours ago, Ottis said:

Wasn’t the underwear party a photo shoot?

10 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

Was it?  Max was in her underwear too, so I was guessing not?

They were all just hanging out in Max's bedroom so I assumed they were her friends (apparently none of them left the LA area for college since we saw several of them in the previous episode when Sam yelled at those kids in the kitchen).

[possibilities]

I like Duke. I wondered how she got the card and balloon on her own, though, and I was disappointed that we didn't see Sam find it. It's like the show is only interested in showing Sam wallowing masochistically in the ways her children abuse her patience.

Edited May 19, 2019 by possibilities

[TVbitch]

I can't blame the kids for being selfish entitled brats. My two nieces are the same... worse even. I never spend time with them cuz they are insufferable. My brother is beside himself about how difficult they are, and how they don't act like adults even though they are now in their early 20's. Everytime he complains, I remind him that he was basically a crap parent and he created this situation and it isn't going to fix itself just cuz they aged into adults. Sad but true. 

[scrb]

At one point the little one tells Sam not to talk to grandma a certain way.

So maybe the two older one model their behavior after the blatant disdain Sam displays towards Phil, no matter how awful Phil is.

Yeah Sam is a doormat to her daughters but maybe that’s why she’s generally loved?

I’d forgotten about the plane crash dream but I can be bothered to go back and see what happened and why that ghost has been around the whole season.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

S3.E12 inside the episode

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Inside S3: writing and directing

[chocolatine]

I didn't realize until a few weeks ago that Season 3 was airing, and I finally caught up over the weekend. 

I've said it before, but I can't believe Sam's laissez-faire attitude with her daughters. I hope for the sake of humanity that Pamela Adlon is a little more competent as a parent, but something tells me that she isn't and she's actually proud of herself because of it.

As a teenager, if I had even said "Mom, Mom, Mom" in the tone of voice that Frankie uses to get Sam's attention, I would have been in trouble, to say nothing of the more egregious things she does. Oh, and in my senior year of high school, the one time I thought out loud about possibly not going to college, I was told in no uncertain terms that if I chose to do that, I would be completely on my own financially. These girls never experience the consequences of their actions, not one iota.

As for the comments that say that the girls treat Sam the same way Sam treats Phyl, I disagree. Sam may have a sharp tongue (as does Phyl), but she provides for Phyl financially and has her living nearby so she can keep an eye on her. I can only imagine that if, 30 years from now, the girls get a call that their mom is sick/demented/unable to live independently, Max would whine about how that would affect her, and Frankie would be like "Sam who? I don't know anyone named Sam" and hang up.  The only daughter I see possibly stepping up is Duke, and only if she doesn't become a selfish brat like her sisters when she hits her teens.

[MJS]

Simply beautiful episode. It broke my heart and uplifted me at the same time. 

What i I see in Frankie is deep pain, about something she can’t face or talk about. She wants to be happy, wants to love her mom, but she struggling with something really deep. 

Sure she's being a pill, but she’s working through something and is still just a kid. I don’t see Sam and being permissive in this episode, but giving Frankie space to figure something out. She's not promising Frankie the sun and moon if she’d just come home. She’s not bending over backwards to appease her. She reached out once and kept a plate warm for her. She didn’t even immediately say yes to the bathtub request. She’s letting Frankie know she’s being hurt. But she’s also mom, the safe landing place, the person you can hurt because they will always love you. 

Frankie is going to school, getting good marks, not on the street. She’s trying to connect. She’s being awful at times, but we forgive people in pain when they are less than perfect. 

But Frankie made it clear that this was about her, not about Sam. She may not be doing right as a ideal,kid, but anyone can see that’s something very deep is going on. 

Its also clear to me that her girls love her- they each remembered her birthday and made is sweet for her. They acknowledged the pain Frankie is causing her and witnessed how much she still loves Frankie no matter what. Sure they could be better, but I see real unconditional love that flows back and forth. 

Edited June 8, 2019 by MJS

[sistermagpie]

51 minutes ago, MJS said:

What i I see in Frankie is deep pain, about something she can’t face or talk about. She wants to be happy, wants to love her mom, but she struggling with something really deep. 

Or she lives in such a shallow pool that everything seems deep.

I assume Sam's handling Frankie exactly the right way, personally. But since everyone in Frankie's life (besides Dad) treats her with exactly this attitude (that she's in deep pain and going through something deep and is a really deep person) I can't help but think it would be amusing if somebody switched it up and told her as hard as it was, she had to just accept she was ordinary . It's not like she stood out amongst the other kids at the poetry thing. (Except they had SJ issues.) And nobody on the show sees her behavior as out of line at all.

[MJS]

8 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

Or she lives in such a shallow pool that everything seems deep.

I assume Sam's handling Frankie exactly the right way, personally. But since everyone in Frankie's life (besides Dad) treats her with exactly this attitude (that she's in deep pain and going through something deep and is a really deep person) I can't help but think it would be amusing if somebody switched it up and told her as hard as it was, she had to just accept she was ordinary . It's not like she stood out amongst the other kids at the poetry thing. (Except they had SJ issues.) And nobody on the show sees her behavior as out of line at all.

She’s a teen- most of their deep pain is actually pretty shallow in the larger context. I remember high school- everything felt so big- the highs, the lows were monumental. But it’s deep to them and they are just learning to use their coping skills.

However, I suspect it has to do with the gender identity issues they touched on in earlier season and may actually be something just that deep  

[sistermagpie]

3 hours ago, MJS said:

She’s a teen- most of their deep pain is actually pretty shallow in the larger context. I remember high school- everything felt so big- the highs, the lows were monumental. But it’s deep to them and they are just learning to use their coping skills.

Yes, I assume that's the idea, that the best way for her to learn coping skills is for everyone to keep accepting her behavior until she tires herself out and I guess to me it seems like facing reasonable reactions to your behavior is part of learning coping skills.

Personally, I'd find it just as believable if she didn't have a more easily defined and sympathetic reveal as questioning her gender. There also seems to be a pattern of Frankie being angry at her father's rejection and possibly pushing her mother away to see if she would abandon her too. Which is why it seems like Sam's constant acceptance is the right way to go. No matter how much of an asshole Frankie is to Sam specifically, Sam's still there, unlike Dad. Duke seems to be the daughter who's dealing with this in the most head-on way.

[EtheltoTillie]

On 6/7/2019 at 10:13 PM, MJS said:

Simply beautiful episode. It broke my heart and uplifted me at the same time. 

What i I see in Frankie is deep pain, about something she can’t face or talk about. She wants to be happy, wants to love her mom, but she struggling with something really deep. 

Sure she's being a pill, but she’s working through something and is still just a kid. I don’t see Sam and being permissive in this episode, but giving Frankie space to figure something out. She's not promising Frankie the sun and moon if she’d just come home. She’s not bending over backwards to appease her. She reached out once and kept a plate warm for her. She didn’t even immediately say yes to the bathtub request. She’s letting Frankie know she’s being hurt. But she’s also mom, the safe landing place, the person you can hurt because they will always love you. 

Frankie is going to school, getting good marks, not on the street. She’s trying to connect. She’s being awful at times, but we forgive people in pain when they are less than perfect. 

But Frankie made it clear that this was about her, not about Sam. She may not be doing right as a ideal,kid, but anyone can see that’s something very deep is going on. 

Its also clear to me that her girls love her- they each remembered her birthday and made is sweet for her. They acknowledged the pain Frankie is causing her and witnessed how much she still loves Frankie no matter what. Sure they could be better, but I see real unconditional love that flows back and forth. 

I’m looking back at old posts to see if everyone was hate watching earlier. That’s what seems to be going on now. I see what you see in this show. It’s a loving circle. 

[aemom]

I liked this show at the beginning, but Frankie and Max are just so awful that I just can't watch anymore.  I made it through the first three seasons, and then had to pull the plug.

I wanted to know what happens to Phil and I like a lot of the relationships, but my God, my kids would never dream of behaving a quarter as badly as Frankie and Max do.  It's not because they are afraid of me, it's because of how I raised them - that we are all a family, that we all contribute to the well being of our family by helping out with chores, etc. and we speak to each other with decency.

Sam just lets these kids walk all over her and keeps coming back for more.  It's too much for me.

[MJS]

On 4/20/2022 at 7:30 AM, EtheltoTillie said:

I’m looking back at old posts to see if everyone was hate watching earlier. That’s what seems to be going on now. I see what you see in this show. It’s a loving circle. 

Thanks for your comment. I’m so over reading comments from people hate watching shows! I love this show- everyone is flawed but I see such deep love between all of them and it’s an incredible unconditional love. The love Sam has for her kids, mom, brother, friends. The love the girls have for each other and family.  It’s such an honest love that can tolerate imperfection and they seem to actually be interested in each other as people. 
 

I'd rather have their relationships than what passes for superficial acceptance in so many families. But I stay away from these forums these days- the intense negativity spoils this show I adore, unfortunately. Difference of opinions are interesting, but posters who seem to enjoy hating on a show so gleefully aren’t fun to read. 

Edited April 23, 2022 by MJS

[EtheltoTillie]

1 hour ago, MJS said:

Thanks for your comment. I’m so over reading comments from people hate watching shows! I love this show- everyone is flawed but I see such deep love between all of them and it’s an incredible unconditional love. The love Sam has for her kids, mom, brother, friends. The love the girls have for each other and family.  It’s such an honest love that can tolerate imperfection and they seem to actually be interested in each other as people. 
 

I'd rather have their relationships than what passes for superficial acceptance in so many families. But I stay away from these forums these days- the intense negativity spoils this show I adore, unfortunately. Difference of opinions are interesting, but posters who seem to enjoy hating on a show so gleefully aren’t fun to read. 

Yes, I see all that too.  Very nice observation.  It's funny what people expect of the kids' behavior.  I don't get it. 

[possibilities]

Adlon was on The Daily Show this week. Trevor apparently LOOOOVES the show. She described her idea of the show as her 2nd chance to do things better-- like how you feel after something happens and on the way home you're thinking to yourself that "I wish I'd said THIS instead!" SO she puts things from her life into the show, but makes herself look better than she was when it really happened.

I genuinely don't get it. For those who think this is normal or exemplary behavior, all I can say is that clearly different people put up with or love different things. 

But for those who like the show, you're not alone and you might enjoy the interview, which is probably available on the Comedy Central website.

 

[sistermagpie]

On 4/23/2022 at 9:35 AM, EtheltoTillie said:

Yes, I see all that too.  Very nice observation.  It's funny what people expect of the kids' behavior.  I don't get it. 

People often do claim that they would never have gotten away with stuff that they probably did get away with (honestly, there are very few kids on TV that imo represent superficial acceptance). It's like every earlier decade was the 19th century and no one talked back until just now. There's plenty of times where the kids are nice to each other and to Phyl and Sam too.

But is it really hard to get what people sometimes expect of the kids on this show? Frankie moved out of the house and refused to even answer texts from her mother and, iirc, yelled at her while she was puking. Max quit college possibly weeks into her first semester with a cover story she wasn't being challenged and the idea of actually challenging herself by studying art at college instead of taking pictures with her friends doesn't seem to occur to anybody. 

I know teenagers can be terrible--I know I was--so I don't mind them being terrible, but having some expectations and limits put on them wouldn't kill them. You can accept a kid while still raising your level of minimum respect. I'm not going to make up some incredible emotional pain to justify every time a wealthy, privileged teenager yells at her mom for not making her lunch fast enough or whatever.

[gingerella]

On 4/24/2022 at 5:58 PM, possibilities said:

SO she puts things from her life into the show, but makes herself look better than she was when it really happened.

Considering on the show Sam pretty much fucks up everything in one way or another, Adlon's real life must be a total shitshow! 😅

[SunnyBeBe]

There’s something about Adlon that reminds me of Kyle Richards.  Lol. She’s funnier, but they have a lot of similarities.