The Starling City Times: News and Media about Arrow

[tv echo]

Arrow Review: Ollie’s Misplaced Trust Almost Takes Him Down, Again
BY CRAIG WACK · FEBRUARY 23, 2017
http://oohlo.com/2017/02/23/arrow-review-ollies-misplaced-trust-almost-takes-him-down-again/

Quote

Oliver Queen’s life is a house of cards and it’s a real shame he’s too thick in the head most of the time to realize it.
*  *  *
Supposedly Ollie has a plan to keep Susan from revealing that he’s a murderer that involves trust and the power of love or something. It’s a far cry from the way, say, Kara had a plan to put a stop to her tormentor over on Supergirl this week.
*  *  *
Susan had enough evidence to expose Oliver’s secret during a time which such a reveal would get him thrown into a very dark hole for a very long time. Thea and Felicity really had no choice but to trash Susan’s professional reputation because a discredited Susan is not a threat, no matter how much incontrovertible evidence she might have.

Oliver can’t connect the dots that a woman who sleeps with a person she is covering might not have the best decision making skills or the highest journalistic ethics. It leads to a confrontation where he accuses Thea of being ruthless like their mother, which isn’t wrong necessarily, but in this situation it kept Oliver from going to prison for murder.
*  *  *
They continue to fill in the edges of the other characters. New Canary got a job on the police force she’ll stop going to once it becomes inconvenient for the writers. Curtis got a new suit that makes him an even bigger target than he was before, but he and Wild Dog are becoming an adorable tandem, so you can overlook Cutis’ sartorial missteps. It was also worth noting the show’s climactic action scene was an enormous gun battle (coming the week after the series’ meditation on gun control).

Edited February 24, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Arrow Review: The Sin-Eater (Season 5 Episode 14)
February 23, 2017  Lissete Lanuza Sáenz
http://www.telltaletv.com/2017/02/arrow-review-sin-eater-season-5-episode-14/

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Oliver is at his most idiotic, self-centered and hypocritical in this incredibly tone-deaf episode that squanders what could have been a great team-up of female villains and a chance to show that Arrow still remembers concepts like continuity and character development.

But, if they do, they don’t care. The show only cares about things from Oliver’s point of view, only tries to sanctify his choices, not anyone else’s. In a way, it’s always done that, but it was easier to swallow when we actually liked Oliver.

And hey – we’re talking about the man who opened this show by sleeping with his girlfriend’s sister. We liked him more then.
*  *  *
The villain of the episode – for it couldn’t possibly be Oliver – is Thea, who’s vilified for protecting her brother. It’s only fine for Oliver to break rules to protect Thea, not the other way around. I presume this has something to do with being a man.

But, and here’s the truth of it all – if we want to look at the situation rationally and separate from the show, then yes, what Thea (and Felicity) did is wrong. Yes, what Susan did was also wrong, but two wrongs don’t really make a right. Thea should feel sorry for what she did.
*  *  *
Arrow operates on a different level of morality – one where Oliver routinely makes decisions about who gets to live and die, where he walks away from killing an innocent man without showing remorse unless someone specifically calls him out on it and one where the law and the police are just tools at his disposal.
*  *  *
Looking at it through the prism of the same moral standards Arrow holds Oliver to, what Thea did was fine. More than fine, it was laudable.

But here’s another problem with Arrow – and it has too many this season to go into detail – it has never afforded any other character the time, the respect or the consideration they give Oliver Queen. And yes, this is his story, but if the show is going to populate it with real life people we’re supposed to care about, then they should at least be playing by the same rules.
*  *  *
- Will Felicity and Diggle ever acknowledge that they know each other?
*  *  *
- How much time has passed? Does Dinah 2.0 just get to say she wants to be a cop and that’s it? I want to be a cop. Wait, nothing happened.
*  *  *
- Felicity Smoak has been around for 100 episodes, and it kinda feels like she’s a big part of why the show has been around for as long as it has, as well. I wish this episode had celebrated her better.

Edited February 24, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Arrow’s “The Sin-Eater” Wastes Its Shot at Creating Its Own Gotham City Sirens
February 23, 2017 by Kelly Konda 
https://weminoredinfilm.com/2017/02/23/arrows-the-sin-eater-wastes-its-shot-at-creating-its-own-gotham-city-sirens/

Quote

... More than anything else, the episode was just disappointing for the way it squandered its own inherent potential for a Batman: The Animated Series-style story about three women coming close to taking down the hero. That could have been a lot of fun, borrowing a page from Legends of Tomorrow’s recent Legion of Doom-centric hour and focusing on the leadership structure and combative personalities within the new triad laying claim to the city. For example:

Who put Liza in charge? Do Liza and China White both think Cupid is a little crazy? If so, how do they manipulate her crazy to their purposes? Or do Liza and Cupid, both former cops, have an inherent distrust of China, a career criminal? If so, does she call them out on their hypocrisy. What are their goals beyond basic power and money, and is there any difference of opinion about those goals? Does the new Black Canary have any strange feelings about going up against them since she too was a cop who went a bit off the reservation before finding her way back to the force (and Team Arrow)?
*  *  *
... As an added bonus, we also witnessed Oliver continuing to be just the worst when it comes to keeping his secret, feebly hoping his charm could stop Susan from going public with the news and accidentally repeating one too many phrases as both mayor and Green Arrow in front of the Chief of Police.

... The episode was structured in such a way that we were meant to suspect Felicity was responsible for the hit job on Susan since such an overstep would fall right in line with Felicity’s continued boundary-pushing as she pursues her renewed hacktivism in secret. This would then naturally lead Oliver to finally have it out with Felicity over little she listened to his plea for her to better than him and not give into the darkness, so to speak.
*  *  *
But what’s this you say? Felicity barely had anything to do with it. In fact, it was all Thea. Speedy? Only appearing in 14 episodes this season, Speedy? Her?

... The episode ended with Oliver claiming to be concerned about what’s becoming of his little sister, but this felt either like a rehash of the bloodlust talks from last season or simply a repurposed version of what he should be saying to Felicity right now. Frankly, Thea has not been around enough this season to establish any kind of arc wherein this act of self-preservation on her part would signal some kind of pivot point. It’s just something new she did, and now Oliver’s worried if she’s okay, too self-righteous to realize just how screwed they all were before Thea fixed the problem (albeit by going a tad too far).
*  *  *
2. For a season which is supposed to feel like the culmination of everything that came before, season 5 has an oddly selective memory when it comes to the show’s history. First, there was the whole “wait, hasn’t there already been a Dinah Drake?” thing. Now, I keep waiting for someone, first Susan, now I guess the chief, to at least acknowledge the fact that the entire city was once told that Oliver was the Arrow. Roy Harper’s ensuing sacrifice notwithstanding, certainly that would have to factor into any case being built up against Oliver. At least a “Yeah, I know he was exonerated of those charges, but what if that was a ruse? Or what if the experience inspired him to become the Green Arrow?”
*  *  *
6. Oh, Arrow, you adorably silly comic book show. Of course no one who ever gets close to the Green Arrow recognizes that he’s clearly Oliver nor would anyone on the Star City PD be able to recognize their newest officer out in the field as Black Canary because, lookie, she has a mask.

7. So, the cops were just totally cool with Quentin being out there with a gun like he was still on the force? [Re-reads #6] Oh, yeah. Silly comic book show.

Edited February 24, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

"The Sin-Eater" – Arrow S05E14 Review
By Gislef   Feb. 23, 2017
http://www.tv.com/shows/arrow/community/post/the-sin-eater-arrow-s05e14-review-1487829848/

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Oh, speaking of Vigilante, he didn't show up this week. But there was lots and lots of gunfight, particularly in the final showdown. Which given last week's "Are we perpetuating the cycle of violence?" questioning, seemed kind of ironic this week.

Also, Curtis is now wearing a Kevlar-lined costume. And he doesn't seem to be at all bothered now that his husband left him. Curtis and Felicity must have a race going to see who can forget their loved one first. Wild Dog doesn't have much to do. Dinah gets sworn in as a police officer and Felicity hands her Laurel's Black Canary mask. And Quentin more or less gives Dinah his blessing to be Black Canary.
*  *  *
One of these days I'm going to have to write a column on the Smallville tabletop role-playing game and its seeming use by CW superhero writers. It basically has non-player characters as "levers" to provoke subplots between the main characters. It's not that they can't be well-rounded developed characters. But they're there to bring out the secrets and relationships between the characters. "The Sin-Eater" reminded me of it because it's almost a textbook example of the game. Our Female Furies are less villains in their own right than levers to show the ACU on Oliver's tail, which plays into his relationships with Thea, and Adrian, and Quentin, and Prometheus, and his personal values when it comes to his accidentally killing someone.

If you're familiar with tabletop role-playing games (think Dungeons & Dragons), Smallville is also unique because it doesn't use attributes and skills. It uses values (Truth, Love, Power) + Relationships. So if Clark is fighting a villain who is holding Lois hostage, he'd roll his Power or Love + Lois Relationship. So tonight, for instance, Felicity would use her Truth + Oliver Relationship to hack Susan's computer.

What if the villain isn't holding Lois (or Chloe, or that show's Oliver, or Tess) hostage? Then why is the storyteller doing a story about it? Get rid of that hostage that doesn't mean anyone to anybody, and toss in somebody Clark cares about!

Edited February 24, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Arrow 5×14 Review: ‘The Sin-Eater’
Feb. 23, 2017  by ALYSSA BARBIERI
http://fangirlish.com/arrow-5x14-review-sin-eater/

Quote

That’s my problem with Arrow this season. It’s lost all sense. Sure, it manages to weave together episodes, but the content within in terms of the characters’ reactions and behaviors makes no sense. Oliver not being on guard. Oliver blindly trusting this Susan woman that he barely knows. Felicity being silenced during important issues. And so much more.

I’ve always admired Arrow because it was one of the more intelligent comic book shows I’d come across. It was quick-witted, smart, believable in its own way, and there was sense in a world of superheroes that shouldn’t make sense. But Arrow has lost that this season. It feels like a parody sometimes.
*  *  *
Surely Arrow had to find a way to ruin this entire thing by having Oliver go off on Felicity and Thea about getting his current girlfriend fired. I’m sorry Oliver, but Felicity and Thea have both forgiven you for a hell of a lot of things and have always stuck by you. What the hell has this Susan woman ever done for you except sleep with you and investigate who you are?

... Then you had Oliver going off at Thea worst of all. Not only that, he was essentially defending Susan and making Thea out to be the villain. Aw, poor Susan was fired. Aw, you ruined my gf’s life. Aw, I’m not going to get any action in the foreseeable future. It was sickening. It was as if Oliver was choosing Susan over Thea.

But perhaps the one redeeming thing about this entire mess of a storyline was when we learned why Oliver was so mad at Thea for doing what she did to Susan. It wasn’t about how Thea’s choice would affect his relationship with Susan. It was about his concern for what Thea’s choice would do to Thea. So he says. So I wish to believe.
*  *  *
But Arrow perpetuated this insane idea that we should feel sorry for Susan. I knew that Arrow wanted me to feel that way, but I’m too damn smart to fall for that. Sure, bad things happened to her like losing her job and credibility (and hopefully put a nail in the coffin that is her ridiculous relationship with Oliver), but who’s to say she didn’t have it coming? Because she did. We do know what karma is, after all.
*  *  *
From the beginning there’s been this question when it’s come to Oliver and Susan’s relationship. He had been uncharacteristically trusting when it came to this stranger – a stranger who, it turns out, was a threat when it comes to the media. Oliver knows the media. He’s spent years staying out of it as the Green Arrow. And yet there were never any red flags when it came to this relationship.
*  *  *
The fact that this is the most I’ve disliked Oliver Queen in five years is worrisome — especially considering all of the terrible shit he’s done. Arrow, what have you done to your hero?
*  *  *
1. Arrow has made Oliver Queen really stupid. Like he was never the brightest crayon in the box when it comes to intelligence, but he wasn’t stupid. He was smart in his own way. He had a good understanding of when people were lying to him. He also had a good bullshit detector. Well, apparently entering season five has erased all of that and made Oliver not even care about someone asking him if he’s the Green Arrow. Huh.

2. I don’t feel sorry for Susan Williams even a tiny bit. This show seemed to do everything it could to make us feel sorry for her – to imply that she was the victim. But given what she’s done, including sleeping with Oliver to get information, how is she the victim? I’m sorry, but there’s a thing called karma. And Ms. Williams just met her.
*  *  *
4. Oliver and Felicity still don’t understand the concept of personal space. Nothing is forgiven just because you give me a tension-filled moment where Oliver and Felicity are an inch from each other and exposing that glorious height difference. But I’ll admit, that scene made me feel things. It reminded me of the magic that Arrow has, and the magic that these producers are wasting.

Edited February 24, 2017 by tv echo

[MariaHill]

15 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Who put Liza in charge? Do Liza and China White both think Cupid is a little crazy? If so, how do they manipulate her crazy to their purposes? Or do Liza and Cupid, both former cops, have an inherent distrust of China, a career criminal? If so, does she call them out on their hypocrisy. What are their goals beyond basic power and money, and is there any difference of opinion about those goals? Does the new Black Canary have any strange feelings about going up against them since she too was a cop who went a bit off the reservation before finding her way back to the force (and Team Arrow)?

The show is obviously never going to explore any of this, but I would read *all the fanfics* based on these questions. 

[tv echo]

Allison Brennan and Lavinia Kent analyze 'Arrow' episode 'The Sin-Eater': Kind of a clunky episode
Feb. 24, 2017
http://happyeverafter.usatoday.com/2017/02/24/allison-brennan-lavinia-kent-arrow-recap-sin-eater/

Quote

AB: ... When Oliver returns to Star City, Susan Williams, the slimy reporter, flat out asks him if he is the Green Arrow. First he says, with a totally blank face, “Yes.” I was stunned. Then she looks stunned, and he says, “You’re kidding, right? I’m kidding.” And she tells him she’s not. I liked that she asked him — because getting him on record one way or the other is necessary for her story — but then I wondered why now? Why not earlier? What’s her game plan?

LK: I admit I can’t figure out the Susan Williams/Oliver Queen thing. I can’t believe the affection is real, on either of their parts, but we’re not being given any other explanation. They are acting a bit like bumbling idiots and it doesn’t read true to me — at least, I hope it’s not true.
*  *  *
AB: We always knew, from episode one, that Susan was going down this path, and I still don’t buy Oliver falling for her. It just doesn’t make sense … at least to me. Maybe I’m wrong.
*  *  *
LK: ... Pike reveals that he has been sent a different copy of Billy Malone’s death certificate, showing that Malone was killed by an arrow resulting in the same type of wound that the victims of the Green Arrow have, and therefore the ACU is after the Green Arrow. (I am not sure why that makes Pike so sure it is the Green Arrow and not a copycat, and this in an episode where we have Cupid shooting people with arrows, but I’ll let that go.) Oliver tries to persuade Pike to back down, but Pike refuses unless Oliver can provide more evidence than he is willing to. Oliver decides to let the Green Arrow take a backseat for the moment.
*  *  *
AB: On the one hand, I think Susan deserved it — I was reading online commentary that she might really have genuine feelings for Oliver, but I don’t buy that. She was researching him possibly being the Green Arrow from the beginning. But at the same time, she was doing her job. She’s a reporter, trying to get information. Thea burned her, but it cost her her job and her reputation, which is what Oliver is objecting to. Thea destroyed her life. I think it was partly in payback for what Susan did to Thea at the beginning of the season, and what Thea learned from it. So while I agree with Oliver on the one hand, I completely understand why Thea did it — as payback and to protect her brother — and I think Oliver was a little hard on her.

LK: Yes, I found Oliver a little hypocritical. He has certainly made plenty of “not the best choices,” and I thought he was way too judgmental, particularly at the end of the episode when he revisits the issue and tells Thea she is acting like their mother. I think the writers are trying to lay the groundwork for the darkening of both Felicity and Thea, but it’s not ringing quite true to me this week. It all seemed a little rushed.
*  *  *
AB: Throughout this entire episode, I felt a sense of weariness. Maybe it was because Stephen Amell looked so exhausted. I kept thinking, is he sick in real life? Or are they trying to make him look overwhelmed? There was a feeling of many, many things going on and maybe his being tired was a reflection of that? But I didn’t like it. I felt that so many different things were going on … yet we made no progress in the Prometheus storyline, which really bugged me.
*  *  *
AB: One idea was that it was Tommy Merlyn, but then all the Prometheus’ mother stuff wouldn’t make sense at all. I’m with you … I WANT him to be someone we know, someone that all of the sudden ties everything together … but I fear it’s going to be ho-hum.
*  *  *
What I was frustrated with was the constant references to “sin.” Sin-eating, guilt, etc. Yes, it was the theme, but stop hitting me over the head! It was like when they were all talking about sharks that don’t swim drown in episode one or two that just drove me batty. I get it. I’m not an idiot. No more than three direct references to the theme, please, but even one would be sufficient. This is the “show, don’t tell” lesson they need! I didn’t count how many times they said “sin,” but I wouldn’t be surprised if it was over two dozen!

... This was a good action scene with the bad girls having their own team come in to help take down Team Arrow. And the bad girls are all great fighters, so they are fun to watch. But I felt like the filming could have been better — and I rarely say that about Arrow. I loved that so many different little fights were going on, to highlight our team’s strengths (especially Dinah in the Black Canary mask — she rocked!), but what would have been cool would be if we could have seen everything at once, like from above, to show a symmetry or how everything is happening at one time. The setting was totally cool (what’s not fabulous about a major fight scene in a cemetery?), but I thought they could have done more with it. I rarely am critical about a major action scene in Arrow because they do them so amazingly well. But this is one of the small problems.

Edited February 25, 2017 by tv echo

[Chaser]

Looks like Collider is interviewing JH today. Christina Radish sent out a tweet yesterday.

No replies, likes or RTs. Some tweeted her separately about interviewing EBR or WH. 

Edited February 25, 2017 by Chaser

[EmilyBettFan]

8 minutes ago, Chaser said:

Looks like Collider is interviewing JH today. Christina Radish sent out a tweet yesterday.

No replies, likes or RTs. Some tweeted her separately about interviewing EBR or WH. 

That's embarrassing. Plus it has been up for 20hrs. 

I really think they don't want Emily giving any interviews because they know that will eclipse anyone else in RTs and Likes. They just suck all around on promo. You want your site to get the most amount of hits? Demand to talk to the fan favorites. You know the actors who people actually want to hear from.

Edited February 25, 2017 by EmilyBettFan

[wonderwall]

15 minutes ago, Chaser said:

Looks like Collider is interviewing JH today. Christina Radish sent out a tweet yesterday.

No replies, likes or RTs. Some tweeted her separately about interviewing EBR or WH. 

as it should be. I for one won't be giving that interview any clicks :)

Edited February 25, 2017 by wonderwall

[Chaser]

At this point, I wonder if EBR asked not to do press. 

[lemotomato]

Her storyline hasn't really peaked yet, so she doesn't have much to talk about at this point. Last year they didn't interview her until right before 415, when her paralysis arc was basically over.

[Chaser]

We got on set interviews before that (granted that's luck of the draw).

I didn't realize we went so long for individual interviews.

[Primal Slayer]

1 hour ago, Chaser said:

Looks like Collider is interviewing JH today. Christina Radish sent out a tweet yesterday.

No replies, likes or RTs. Some tweeted her separately about interviewing EBR or WH. 

I would laugh but it looks like most of her posts are lucky to garner even 2 likes or a retweet. 

[Chaser]

I found the lack of replies/questions more interesting.

[Velocity23]

When the reporters are asking questions for certain actors they are interviewing there is always at least some interest and at least questions asked. 

[LeighAn]

People are super interested clearly. 

As for Emily, Stephen and David have given less interviews then in the past and there's been less promotion in general. And Emily has never done an extensive amount of promotion during the season. It just sticks out more because we get all these basics we don't care about getting interviews instead.

I really don't know why the network keep sending the newbies out to interviews but I guess they are hoping one will stick with audience eventually. 

[statsgirl]

I assume they're sending the newbies out because they've got upcoming storylines, like Rene and guns and his backstory, and they're hoping the audience will tune in for this new character.  For example for JH, how is Dinah different from previous Black Canaries?  How does she see her character fitting into the established Team Arrow?  What happened to her old lover, is he really dead?  Is he coming back from the dead in true Arrow fashion?

I'd personally rather hear interviews with EBR and DR and WH but really, what do they have to say that hasn't already been said?  Even Felicity's Dark Arc has been teased a ton by MG and WM and nothing much has happened yet, including the show forgetting her relationship with Billy and that she was shot and paralyzed last season.  Felicity, Diggle and Thea aren't really doing enough this season to fill interviews.

Edited February 26, 2017 by statsgirl

[Morrigan2575]

I'm assuming they're sending the noobs out because Media Interviews are a chore that most actors don't enjoy. 

[Chaser]

I'm not as annoyed at the lack of press from the core as I was at the beginning. I feel like there was more of a correlation between storyline and the press and now I think its just for general buzz. So the boobies out don't bug me anymore.

I'm actually a little curious about this interview. I want to know if she is going to try to do the KC thing with GA and BC and comics or if she is going to jump on the internet feedback (talk Diggle chemistry) and possibly female friendships.

[LeighAn]

Her last interview came off as both so I'm assuming the same will be true of this one.

I do think she will be trying to sell herself hard -she has that same thirsty vibe KC had- and ultimately what she says in the interview probably won't translate that well to what's on screen.

[EmilyBettFan]

But Wild dong has given lots of interviews. Not just one because of his stupid flashback episode.

[kismet]

8 hours ago, statsgirl said:

I assume they're sending the newbies out because they've got upcoming storylines, like Rene and guns and his backstory, and they're hoping the audience will tune in for this new character.  For example for JH, how is Dinah different from previous Black Canaries?  How does she see her character fitting into the established Team Arrow?  What happened to her old lover, is he really dead?  Is he coming back from the dead in true Arrow fashion?

I'd personally rather hear interviews with EBR and DR and WH but really, what do they have to say that hasn't already been said?  Even Felicity's Dark Arc has been teased a ton by MG and WM and nothing much has happened yet, including the show forgetting her relationship with Billy and that she was shot and paralyzed last season.  Felicity, Diggle and Thea aren't really doing enough this season to fill interviews.

I sometimes think we want interviews because it means that our fav characters will actually be getting a storyline or proper attention. It's a wishful hope/denial/naivety/wish. When the reality is what you said, the ones I want to hear from "aren't really doing enough this season to fill interviews". Even Oliver's storyline is meh, it's filling up screentime because of necessity not because of actual content.

Edited February 26, 2017 by kismet

[theOAfc]

11 hours ago, Chaser said:

I found the lack of replies/questions more interesting.

Apathy harms things more than vocal hate IMO.

[tv echo]

I think she meant to write "Susan Williams"...

Arrow 5x14 Review: "The Sin-Eater" (Absolution, or Absolutely Not)
Just About Write   Feb. 25, 2017
http://www.itsjustaboutwrite.com/2017/02/arrow-5x14-review-sin-eater-absolution.html

Quote

Villains aren't exactly new within Arrow, but to have three female villains in one episode is. These are complex women and are basically used in "The Sin-Eater" as a B-plot which — by the way — is not really connected to the theme of the episode at all. I wish that we would have dropped the whole Susan Wells/Oliver part of this episode and made the flashbacks more concise so we could have spent some time focusing on the trio of baddies. As it was, however, these women basically just drop bodies in the episode to get their hands on money. They get caught (kinda), escape, and then finally get caught by the SCPD. Or the ACU. I'm really not sure which, but the worst part is that it kind of doesn't matter anyway.
*  *  *
I really don't know why Annoying Reporter Chick is still here, nor why she's the apple of Oliver Queen's eye. I'm not even the biggest fan of Oliver/Felicity anymore (the show hasn't done a great job proving to me that they deserve to be back together), but I can't stand her. She tried to destroy Oliver's career, backstabbed Thea, and wouldn't bat an eye if publishing a story about Oliver Queen being the Green Arrow would give her more notoriety and prowess. At least, that's how I see her.

Susan (ugh, fine, I'll use her name) has proven that she's more dedicated to her craft than she is to the people she's doing stories about. And as you'll recall, Thea threatened the woman before. She warned Susan that if she messed with her or her brother, she would be taken down. Thea made good on her promise in the episode after Oliver confided that Susan asked if he was Green Arrow. Because Oliver is apparently blinded by... something for Susan, he doesn't handle her question well at all.
*  *  *
When Oliver confronts Thea later in the episode about this, he says it's something Moira Queen would have done. Honestly? That sounds like a praise to me. Yes, Moira was morally ambiguous. She was ruthless and she was intense. But she protected her family above everything else, and genuinely did what she thought was right (whether or not it was, notwithstanding). But I don't understand why Oliver is upset with Thea, and I'm really frustrated that Arrow made a woman apologize to a man for doing what she felt was right. It makes Thea look weak, and what she pulled was anything but that.

Thea was able to see something in Susan that Oliver cannot — namely, her ability to destroy him on every level and her willingness to do so. If Susan wasn't thinking of still using that evidence against Oliver, it would've been deleted from her laptop the moment they first got together, romantically. And if Oliver was smart, he would have realized that and thanked Thea for saving him instead of blaming her for ruining Susan's career. I'm not afraid of love interests in Arrow, but it seems wildly contradictory and self-righteous of Oliver to tell Thea that there's something wrong with her and he's worried about her because she chose to destroy someone's career — someone who would have easily done that to Oliver, given the chance.

And Susan kind of DOES admit to that in the episode, subtly. She has a sneaking suspicion that Oliver, or someone close to him, outed her. Because now if she tells the world that Oliver is the Green Arrow, no one will believe her. She's a discredited journalist. So, Susan, what you're saying is that you now can't do something you probably would have done if you weren't discredited? Cool. You're the worst.

Edited February 26, 2017 by tv echo

[BkWurm1]

8 hours ago, EmilyBettFan said:

But Wild dong has given lots of interviews. Not just one because of his stupid flashback episode.

Those kind of interviews were probably designed with the intent to drum up interest in the character.  For me something about the actor managed to put me off even beyond my dislike of the character so not so sure that was a smart move.  

[Chaser]

I feel like the new actors are in a no win situation with me. I already resent the new characters so the actors giving gung-ho interviews just turn me off. And I feel bad about that lol. I get them being super excited about the opportunity and they may really love with they are doing but I can't detach from the show so I'm annoyed. 

[BkWurm1]

Usually I can handle the interviews.  I might not care but it takes a special individual to be able to piss me in one.  KC managed to do it many, many times until it almost became endearing (almost) but I have no such good will with the guy playing Mad Dog.  I've avoided reading any more of his after the first two interviews made me want both the character and the actor gone.  They've fixed a lot of his characterization on the show but I'm less hopeful about any interviews, lol.    

[bijoux]

[kismet]

12 hours ago, tv echo said:

I think she meant to write "Susan Williams"...

I think Annoying Reporter Chick works for me. Love the Absolutely Not in the headline.

[kismet]

4 hours ago, bijoux said:

SO the writers couldn't even put in enough effort to make her password a little harder or at least change the file name? Gheez, throw the character a little effort. Cuz why even have FS hack it? I don't know why they bother some days. No need to make reporter chick seem uber dumb. They want us to like her, and then they make sure to put her down.

[BkWurm1]

3 minutes ago, kismet said:

SO the writers couldn't even put in enough effort to make her password a little harder or at least change the file name? Gheez, throw the character a little effort. Cuz why even have FS hack it? I don't know why they bother some days. No need to make reporter chick seem uber dumb. They want us to like her, and then they make sure to put her down.

But there's the question.  DO they really want us to like her??

[kismet]

1 hour ago, BkWurm1 said:

But there's the question.  DO they really want us to like her??

I think its split in the writers room. Because some scripts I think want us to like her and others want us to dislike her. Either way, its not improving their storylines.

[insomniadreams88]

1 hour ago, BkWurm1 said:

But there's the question.  DO they really want us to like her??

Sometimes I think they do. But instead they make us not like Oliver (even more) because of her. 

[statsgirl]

I wonder if we're supposed to feel sympathetic towards her because then Oliver doesn't look like such an idiot for dating her and sticking up for her against Thea and everyone else, but they need Susan to do certain things For Plot and that screws up any feelings of sympathy.

[apinknightmare]

I think the writers got so invested in making the audience think Susan was shady and wonder what was going on with her that they forgot they actually needed to write a pivot from shady reporter to woman in relationship with Oliver. In this last episode, I'm pretty sure we were supposed to believe that Susan was upset that Oliver was lying to her as his girlfriend because she has feelings for him, and not because she was upset about her story. And because this show doesn't do subtle, they had to spell out what Thea's actions meant for Susan, and what the result of her being fired was ("now I can't publish what I know, because no one will believe me!"), but wound up making it seem like the story was the only reason she was with him, since she had to bring it up as exposition for the audience. 

I actually didn't think he stuck up for her against Thea (thanks to the speech to Thea at the end about how he was mainly worried about the lengths she was willing to go to in order to keep Susan quiet - without that, yikes!). So...I think we're supposed to believe that Oliver knows that Susan cares about him and that's why he believes she isn't going to rat him out. But, the only reason I think that is because of Wendy's interview where  she mentioned that they were both going to have "genuine feelings." Like you wrote, it's one of those things where they need things to happen for plot, but because they ultimately don't mean anything outside of that, they can't be bothered to spend any time on it whatsoever. 

But really, the thing with Susan could've been fixed with just an addition of a line of dialogue, and a rearrangement of events (like, she should've pushed him about what she knew when she was confronting him about being the Green Arrow, and let him know that she cared about him and was angry that he's lying to her, etc.). It's too bad they're so...lazy and incompetent, I guess. 

Edited February 27, 2017 by apinknightmare

[tv echo]

On 2/25/2017 at 5:05 PM, Chaser said:

Looks like Collider is interviewing JH today. Christina Radish sent out a tweet yesterday.

No replies, likes or RTs. Some tweeted her separately about interviewing EBR or WH. 

Christina Radish's 2/24 tweet asking for JH questions appears to have disappeared. I wonder if the interview still took place...
https://twitter.com/ChristinaRadish 

ETA: Previous link to that 2/24 tweet - https://twitter.com/ChristinaRadish/status/835298442079436800

Edited February 27, 2017 by tv echo

[SmallScreenDiva]

1 hour ago, tv echo said:

Christina Radish's 2/24 tweet asking for JH questions appears to have disappeared. I wonder if the interview still took place...
https://twitter.com/ChristinaRadish

Thanks, @tv echo! I just went looking for it, too, but couldn't find it.

[tv echo]

Arrow Season Five: It’s Synergy…Mostly
Jessica Breaux  February 26, 2017
http://www.tvequals.com/2017/02/26/arrow-season-five-its-synergy-mostly/

Quote

Let’s start with something I like. I really appreciate the fact that the show has scaled back a bit with the threats. Oliver constantly facing down metahumans, psycho immortal assassins, and sorcerers stretched credulity a bit far. Damien Darhk especially was a massive misstep for the series for many reasons. ... With the exception of the 100th episode crossover, Arrow has mostly stuck with adversaries that are reasonable for Oliver to take on. Even though Oliver may be more highly trained than some of the villains we’ve seen thus far, that’s not been the case with all the villains. Knowing that Oliver is more evenly matched has made the fight sequences much more interesting to watch because the outcomes are much less predetermined....

The story is also more focused this season than it has been. One of Arrow’s problems is the fact that it was such a success for The CW. Why is that a problem? Because once The CW decided they wanted to be the television home for DC characters, they also decided to use Arrow’s success to springboard their other shows. ... However, as some of the other DC shows took off and The CW attempted to keep Arrow included in the larger DC universe, Arrow seemed to lose its voice....
*  *  *
But the Russia flashbacks also lead to what I consider one of the season’s weaker elements. Oliver’s brooding. To be clear, I don’t think there will ever be a time when Oliver isn’t a dark, brooding hero. That’s the very nature of this character. It would be weird for him not to brood. My primary issue with Oliver’s brooding is how repetitive it’s become....

The weakest element of this season for me has been rebuilding Team Arrow. Part of the reason the original Team Arrow clicked so well is that they were individually interesting characters. I care about what happens to John because the show spent time developing John as an individual and not just as a character in relation to Oliver. The same is true of Felicity. She’s an interesting character even without Oliver which is why her delving into darkness matters. I cannot say the same for Curtis, Rene, and Rory. Curtis has been developed somewhat, but that’s mostly building upon what we learned about him last season. The show hasn’t really spent any time developing any of the new team members they’ve introduced this season, and what they’ve shown us has only been moderately interesting at best. Rene is an unpleasant, arrogant, thick-headed jerk who perpetually puts the team at risk. I suppose he’s intended to be the maverick, but I find him more annoying than endearing. The last few episodes have tried to give him some depth and soften his edges somewhat, but it’s not really working for me. Rory has an interesting backstory, but the show barely touched on it before they decided to move on. I get that he’s supposed to be a religious type, but the fact that he so quickly got over Felicity being responsible for his entire family’s death is a bit much. Then there’s Evelyn. Remember her? She’s the Black Canary wannabe who betrayed Team Arrow in the worse kind of way and has just sort of disappeared. I honestly don’t understand why the team isn’t more concerned about it. She knows all of their secret identities. She knows the location of the Not So Secret Hideout. Also, I think she’s probably a bit crazy too. Or at least bent on vengeance. But then no one seems bothered by her betrayal, so I guess it’s all good. All of this is problematic because the primary focus of this season has the formation of Team Arrow 2.0. They’ve done a little better since the mid-season finale, but Team Arrow is still not gelling and that’s disappointing.

Edited February 27, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

These guys must be watching a different show than I am (but maybe they're watching the show that the EPs intended). One guy thinks that O/F should help restore Susan's credibility - right, so that she can then destroy their lives?...

Arrow Round Table: Did Thea Go Too Far?
Paul Dailly at February 27, 2017 11:00 am
https://www.tvfanatic.com/2017/02/arrow-round-table-did-thea-go-too-far/

Quote

TV Fanatics, Jim Garner, Kathleen Wiedel, Steve Ford and Robin Harry discuss the many returns, Thea's decision, and Oliver revealing the truth. 
*  *  *
Did Thea go too far?

Jim: Yes and no. She should have spoken to Oliver before taking any action and given him a chance to chime in on the solution. At the same time, I understood her rationale. I hope Oliver can help restore Susan's credibility somehow.

Kathleen: I agree with Jim. Thea really, really should have talked to Oliver before making a move, since it was, essentially, *Oliver's* life at stake should Susan have outed him as Green Arrow. Not to mention the fact that Susan was Oliver's girlfriend (no matter how much Thea disliked her).

On the other hand, Susan got off easier than some of the other people Team Arrow has gone up against... Bluntly, though, it really could have been handled better.

Steve: I don't think she went too far. Thea was doing what she thought was protecting her brother but did not take Oliver's feelings for Susan into account. Perhaps the way Thea went about it was wrong, but when it comes to protecting her family she did what she had to do.

Robin: I think it was an impractical and dumb move in general. How could it not occur to Thea that discrediting Susan at that moment, right after her confrontation, would only solidify her suspicions? Thea made things worse.

I don't really care about Susan's credibility or Oliver's romantic life, but this is just going to fuel an intrepid reporter's drive to prove what she knows. Nice job breaking it, hero.
*  *  *
Is Susan gone for good?

Jim: I hope not. This would be a pretty crappy way to end her story, and so abruptly. As mentioned above, I'm hoping Ollie and Felicity can figure out how to restore her reputation. They could use a journalist on Team Arrow!

Kathleen: Hah. Bad publicity has always been a problem with Team Arrow, hasn't it? If they could get Susan on their side, that would be quite a coup, wouldn't it? Though first off they'd need to fix the whole "destroyed reputation" thing.

Steve: I think she will be back one way or another. Now that her credibility is tarnished, could she end up taking up a guise to seek revenge? It's a stretch but is just a thought I had.

Robin: Well, in the Green Lantern comics, she marries the guy she thinks is the Green Lantern (it's his brother), so no, I don't think we've seen the last of Susan Williams. I'm pretty sure she'll cause a bit more trouble first.

Edited February 28, 2017 by tv echo

[apinknightmare]

39 minutes ago, tv echo said:

They could use a journalist on Team Arrow!

Sure, yes, this seems like a great idea!

[tv echo]

I just read an article where the writer speculated about what might happen after this season.  He wished that this season would end with Oliver having to leave Star City and start over elsewhere, specifically that he and Tinah together would relocate to a different city; thus, S6 would launch a new story and a new romance, "finally giving Arrow fans a true Green Arrow/Black Canary relationship."  

Excuse me, while I go vomit a little.

Edited February 28, 2017 by tv echo

[Morrigan2575]

Let me guess? Seattle? Oh and Tinah can openna Flower Shop called Sherwood Florist and then Ollie can embezzle money from the Flower shop and make out with Tinah's assistant...

[theOAfc]

1 hour ago, tv echo said:

I just read an article where the writer speculated about what might happen after this season.  He wished that this season would end with Oliver having to leave Star City and start over elsewhere, specifically that he and Tinah together would relocate to a different city; thus, S6 would launch a new story and a new romance, "finally giving Arrow fans a true Green Arrow/Black Canary relationship."  

Excuse me, while I go vomit a little.

And then they try to mock Olicity fans for liking a ship. These people...

[Cleanqueen]

http://ew.com/tv/2017/02/28/arrow-oliver-dinah-romance-stephen-amell/

[LeighAn]

8 hours ago, tv echo said:

I just read an article where the writer speculated about what might happen after this season.  He wished that this season would end with Oliver having to leave Star City and start over elsewhere, specifically that he and Tinah together would relocate to a different city; thus, S6 would launch a new story and a new romance, "finally giving Arrow fans a true Green Arrow/Black Canary relationship."  

Excuse me, while I go vomit a little.

But romance ruins the show! No one wants it I tell you!

[Primal Slayer]

7 hours ago, theOAfc said:

And then they try to mock Olicity fans for liking a ship. These people...

Does that  particular writer mock Olicity fans for liking a ship? 

[apinknightmare]

6 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Does that  particular writer mock Olicity fans for liking a ship? 

Nope. But he does have an article up about how ditching the romance is part of why season 5 is "making Arrow great again," so his comment his lulzy anyway. 

[MaisyDaisy]

The comments on that ew article are great. I always find it funny when people scream for comic canon, but wouldn't want the comic canon of Oliver marrying which ever BC only to repeatedly cheat on her and eventually divorce.

My fave comment was;

" I think some people would root for Oliver screwing a 100 pounds of rotting meat if it was stuffed in that overly buckled outfit. "

[Starfish35]

Well unfortunately that same commenter also suggested testing Dinah with Quentin, which....ewwww.  :(   Sorry.  I don't want Dinah with Oliver either, but putting Quentin with his daughter's replacement is absolutely not any better.