The Starling City Times: News and Media about Arrow

[kismet]

12 hours ago, lemotomato said:

Is this the first time he's allowed an opposing viewpoint? I wonder it's a bid to get more pagehits.

It might have worked, because that was a lot of clicks! First time I stuck through any GATV article beyond a screen or two. And first time I returned to GATV in years. Well worth it though to read @BkWurm1's well written responses. CONGRATULATIONS!! Thanks for representing a lot of my opinions.

That being said, these roundtables always make me wonder if we are all watching the same show. Because, I really found a disconnect between their viewing experience and my own.

[BkWurm1]

3 hours ago, kismet said:

That being said, these roundtables always make me wonder if we are all watching the same show. Because, I really found a disconnect between their viewing experience and my own.

No kidding!  

One of the things that cracked me up was a couple of them tossing out the idea of Felicity becoming the Canary.  To dismiss it, but even to mention it surprised me.  

It's also funny how after all of the other commentators praisee the season for how great it's been, they then start kind of casually admitting to all these things that aren't working:  the lair is too crowded, the new recruits underdeveloped and not clicking as characters, Curtis and Lance's storylines repeatative, Evelyn's betrayal light switched, Susan's role confusing, Church and the Human Target not used well enough, not really wanting a New Canary, Vigelante taking up space, and storylines being rushed.  They even admitted there are good reasons to return to Olicity, but it's all backhanded observations,  last second admissions, and between the lines acknowledgement while they seemed to still try and convince themselves that it's all going great!

I loved the line about not really liking any of the recruits but liking they existed, lol. 

[EmilyBettFan]

That site is a mess. They don't tell the truth right away about episodes, they wait. They should just review the episodes with the truth right away imo. They want to keep their relationship with Arrow (that I don't even know how they got since they are so vile towards so many fans.)

Also, they are the ones perpetuating Felicity as Black Canary. So this section of fans should stop saying it's her fans doing it. No it's not. It's the rest of them.

Edited January 25, 2017 by EmilyBettFan

[tv echo]

21 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

So GATV just posted its annual Midseason Roundtable discussion.  If you click on the link, you'll figure out pretty fast why I thought to mention it, lol. 

http://www.greenarrowtv.com/team-gatv-midseason-roundtable-arrow-season-5-so-far/

Nice job! I loved all of your responses.

[Belinea]

This is too funny... 

[kismet]

5 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

No kidding!  

One of the things that cracked me up was a couple of them tossing out the idea of Felicity becoming the Canary.  To dismiss it, but even to mention it surprised me.  

It's also funny how after all of the other commentators praisee the season for how great it's been, they then start kind of casually admitting to all these things that aren't working:  the lair is too crowded, the new recruits underdeveloped and not clicking as characters, Curtis and Lance's storylines repeatative, Evelyn's betrayal light switched, Susan's role confusing, Church and the Human Target not used well enough, not really wanting a New Canary, Vigelante taking up space, and storylines being rushed.  They even admitted there are good reasons to return to Olicity, but it's all backhanded observations,  last second admissions, and between the lines acknowledgement while they seemed to still try and convince themselves that it's all going great!

I loved the line about not really liking any of the recruits but liking they existed, lol. 

I picked up on the bolded part too. I may be bitter about the show, but at least I'm honest with myself and others about it. You can still love a show, but be critical about it. To me that is what makes good fans. If you praise everything when you really don't like it or it's not working, what's the value of your praise?

Surprisingly, I actually got the idea about liking recruits just not liking these ones. Recruits are a good idea, but like so much of Arrow these days the execution is bad. The writing is bad for them and the casting was just not good.

Edited January 25, 2017 by kismet

[wonderwall]

This is a great review

‘Arrow’ Recap: “Who Are You?” – I Know Why the Caged Bird Screams

http://collider.com/arrow-recap-who-are-you/?utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=collidersocial&utm_medium=social#images

Quote

Identity is one of the most important themes in superhero storytelling, and Arrow is at its best when it is embracing it in non-redundant ways. Sure, “Who Are You?”’s flashbacks gave us an iteration of this theme we have seen before, as Oliver wallows in self-pity and disgust over the person he has become. However, the present-day storyline had us seeing these characters processing information and making decisions in new ways, exposing new facets of their identities.

“Who Are You?” represented a quieter, more character and theme-driven narrative episode, the kind I haven’t seen Arrow make in a long while and one that gives me hope for the second half of the season. Here’s everything that went down in “Who Are You?”

[wonderwall]

Another good review

Arrow Season 5 Episode 10 Review: “Who Are You?”

http://www.tvovermind.com/the-cw/arrow/arrow-season-5-episode-10-review-oliver-felicity-black-siren-laurel

Quote

When the mid-season finale of Arrow aired back in December, I praised the episode, calling it one of the season’s best, but I also mentioned my reservations about Laurel’s return to the show. My concern here had nothing to do with Katie Cassidy as an actress or Laurel as a character but more about how Arrow, in the past, has cheapened the significance of death, and I did not want them to do this with Laurel, especially given how much of Season 5’s first half focused on Oliver and the team preserving her legacy. I should have had more faith in the Arrow writers, as tonight’s terrific episode not only confirms that Laurel is actually Black Siren, who first debuted on The Flash last season (although if you watched any of The CW’s promos for Arrow, this reveal had already been spoiled for you), but it also uses her reappearance to explore deeper issues that have been troubling Oliver, Felicity, and the rest of the team for much of this season.

[Chaser]

I read Andy B. (That guy that is creepy about KC) review. It's amusing. He did a bulletpoint for the most important highlights: Diggle, Talia, Tina, and Laurel. He didn't like Felicity from start to finish cause she hurt BS. LOLOLOLOL

[wonderwall]

19 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I read Andy B. (That guy that is creepy about KC) review. It's amusing. He did a bulletpoint for the most important highlights: Diggle, Talia, Tina, and Laurel. He didn't like Felicity from start to finish cause she hurt BS. LOLOLOLOL

That guy has lost it LMAO his review made me cackle

[BkWurm1]

27 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I read Andy B. (That guy that is creepy about KC) review. It's amusing. He did a bulletpoint for the most important highlights: Diggle, Talia, Tina, and Laurel. He didn't like Felicity from start to finish cause she hurt BS. LOLOLOLOL

Do you have a link?  It sounds hilariously bad.  

[wonderwall]

1 minute ago, BkWurm1 said:

Do you have a link?  It sounds hilariously bad.  

Don't drink anything while reading. Just. Trust me.

[insomniadreams88]

43 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I read Andy B. (That guy that is creepy about KC) review. It's amusing. He did a bulletpoint for the most important highlights: Diggle, Talia, Tina, and Laurel. He didn't like Felicity from start to finish cause she hurt BS. LOLOLOLOL

I just read that and wow. Okay. How dare Felicity punch the villain who spent the episode pretending to be their dead friend, screaming at all of them, trying to kill her and working for Prometheus. 

[Chaser]

My favorite part was his confused "it's like they just wanted Felicity to punch her." Yes. Writer meet meta.

[Mellowyellow]

What is the comic dudebro reaction to Tuna so far?

[BkWurm1]

This AndyB is open to it (would prefer E2 Laurel), but didn't like that they introduced Tina and decided to replace BC in the Black Siren episode.

I've heard both the "hell no" and the "sure sounds great" from other dudebro comics dudes.   Probably too soon tell.

Edited January 26, 2017 by BkWurm1

[EmilyBettFan]

That Andy dude is as deluded as most are when it comes to LL character.

The scenes where BS used her annoying screams towards Felicity could be said for the haters to cheer her on to take down Felicity.

Except Felicity is a good character and BS is a villain. So Felicity is justified in throwing a punch.

[tv echo]

Here's A.V. Club's review of 510 (graded it an "A-")...

Arrow picks up right where it left off as it ponders what makes a villain
By Alasdair Wilkins  Jan 26, 2017  
http://www.avclub.com/tvclub/arrow-picks-right-where-it-left-it-ponders-what-ma-249124

Quote

There’s a lot of ways to describe Arrow’s resurgence this season, and here’s one I haven’t trotted out previously: More so than at any point since season two, the show is comfortable in its own skin. On the one hand, this is a show where Laurel can show up, back from the dead, and spin some ridiculous story about her sister teleporting her onto the Waverider and fixing the embolism that really, really appeared to kill her—and Team Arrow doesn’t remember any of that because it hadn’t happened yet when they experienced it. This is a masterful bit of bullshit on the show’s part....

...  Sure, maybe that’s just how the universes work, but it’s much more logical to adopt Oliver’s perspective, as he argues the Laurel that became the Black Siren isn’t some inherently evil inversion of their Laurel but rather a product of differing circumstances. Arrow seizes on a nice bit of continuity from The Flash’s universe-hopping adventures by recalling that the other universe’s Oliver died when the Queen’s Gambit sank, already creating a darker existence for the other Laurel to endure. Maybe Black Siren was just working Oliver there, or maybe her story was true and her final claim that the good Laurel never existed was just so much bluster.
*  *  *
Tonight’s episode is significant because it’s the first time that Oliver and Felicity feel like equally important characters without romance defining the latter’s importance. And, for the record, there’s no issue with romance being important for either character. But if Arrow can build on its handling of Felicity tonight, there’s an opportunity to define her in a way that doesn’t ultimately reduce to Oliver’s sidekick, love interest, or former love interest. Yes, it required moving Diggle out of the picture to accomplish that, but it’s understandable that two characters designed as supporting players would struggle to match Oliver in narrative importance. But when it’s either just Felicity or just John, it’s easier for Oliver to share the spotlight. The climactic fight scene accomplishes that nicely, with Curtis, Oliver, and Felicity all working together in sequence to take down the Black Siren.
*  *  *
For a second there, I thought Oliver was talking about Felicity when he said somewhere out there was a woman who could live up to Laurel’s legacy. All things considered, I think I’m glad the show immediately introduced a character with a supersonic scream. And that’s not a knock on Felicity—she’s already got her own good thing without being incorporated into another character’s story.

Edited January 26, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Here's a less positive review of 510...

Arrow 5.10 Review – “Who Are You?”
January 25, 2017 | Posted by Michael Haigis
http://411mania.com/movies/arrow-5-10-review-who-are-you/

Quote

After a six week hiatus, Arrow returned tonight with an episode called “Who Are You?”; a title seemingly derived from the never ending onslaught of new characters that this show introduces on a weekly basis. Its part of the show’s soapy DNA. People die, and return, but don’t really return, well sort of return. Big villains lurk and little ones cycle through, a parade of pinch hitters. Likewise, allies present themselves at opportune moments, in reveals that are grandiose and momentous, only to disappear for long stretches of time.

In addition to Arrow’s substantial regular cast, these peripheral figures pass through at a breakneck pace. Fan service, and the size of a comic book universe in general, demand it. And, now, we are working with more than just one earth – so, double the number of potential characters for Oliver to either team up with (hard for him), or fist fight (seemingly easier.)
*  *  *
There’s not much more to this particular storyline. We are now at five inversions, if you are counting (at this point, Laurel 2.0 can be assumed good). The sixth comes when Felicity confronts her and allows her to escape. Number six. in forty minutes of screen time.

While all this is going on – and we’ll get back to this plot – Oliver (acting as Mayor) assigns his District Attorney to defend Diggle, who is almost certainly headed toward a conviction, or worse, for the treason he didn’t commit. This was, for me, the best storyline of the episode. Josh Segarra, as DA Adrian Chase, puts in solid work as a smug but trustworthy lawyer. In limited screen time, Chase develops a real rapport with Diggle, and the episode’s most purely triumphant moment comes when Chase outsmarts General Walker, the architect of Dig’s misery.
*  *  *
At the very end of the episode, we are introduced to yet another attractive woman blessed with the Canary Cry, ostensibly the heir to the Black Canary throne.
*  *  *
“Who Are You?” was entertaining. It was also mostly inane. As the show so often does, though, it had pinned its somewhat incoherent plotting to resonant emotional moments. Mr. Terrific and Wild Dog got the meaty one-on-one screen time tonight, with Curtis revealing to Rene that his husband left him, after light needling by Rene turned too pointed. Rick Gonzalez particularly is a breath of fresh air each week; especially against Amell’s brooding Oliver, Wild Dog’s vibrance and energy is a jolt. Seeing him shift from his “Wild” (excuse me) persona tonight, to exhibit sincere empathy for his teammate, was among the highlights of the episode.

Edited January 26, 2017 by tv echo

[Morrigan2575]

Wow, I totally had reviewers wrong. I really thought they'd raise a stink about Arrow retreading storylines and introducing another knock off character, etc.  

Hell I thought the phrase "dipping into the same well" would get used often. Just goes to show you, there's no predicting how people will react.

Edited January 26, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[tv echo]

EW's 510 recap/review (graded episode a "B")...

Arrow’ recap: 'Who Are You?’
SARA NETZLEY JANUARY 25, 2017 AT 11:31PM EST
http://ew.com/recap/arrow-season-5-episode-10/

Quote

... Prosecutors just don’t turn into defense attorneys for one case, particularly within the military system.

... Chase tells Diggle to hit him, which allows him to hold Dig to be prosecuted under Starling County jurisdiction… which he’ll do himself. NO! You cannot be Diggle’s defense attorney and his prosecutor! That’s not how this works! That’s not how any of this works!
*  *  *
Guys, I love evil Katie Cassidy. Evil Katie Cassidy is the best Katie Cassidy.
*  *  *
While Felicity (and every single person watching) is deeply suspicious of Fauxrel, Oliver lets her sing her sob story from behind bars: Earth-2 Oliver, the man she loved, died 10 years ago, and then her fresh start devolved into plum-colored lipstick, a nose ring, a black leather duster, and a vicious canary cry. “It was just one bad choice after another,” she says. “And I guess once you let the darkness inside, it never comes out.”

Oh, how Oliver wants to believe her. It’s his chance at redemption, to tweak this Laurel’s circumstances and make her a better person. To save her like he couldn’t save his Laurel.

Felcity, though, is pretty sure that Oliver’s being played....

So Felicity takes matters into her own hands. She lets Fauxrel needle her about Oliver — “Did he find someone else, or were you not tall enough? Do you have a sister? Because I hear he loves sisters” — while secretly planting tracking nanites on Fauxrel and letting her escape so they can locate Prometheus....

“Well, now that you’re killing again, I thought, ‘Why not put it to use?’” WHOA. Oliver promises they’ll get justice for Billy, “but first we need to take care of your ex who’s not even your ex,” Felicity snarks. This is the most honest, uncomfortable conversation we’ve seen these two have in ages, and I love it.
*  *  *
Ugh, but then we find out that Fauxrel’s locked up at Argus so Oliver can keep trying to find the Laurel inside of her. Felicity appreciates his newfound optimism, but we can’t really appreciate why he’s clinging to the hope of rehabilitating Fauxrel without a little bit of flashback time.
*  *  *
Finally, in the present, a maintenance crew is picking up the pieces of the destroyed Back Canary statue. “I think we can do better,” Oliver says. YA THINK? The blank eyes of that statue haunt my dreams.
*  *  *
Talia… Talia… Talia. That’s got a nice ring to it. Hmm. Wonder what her last name is?
*  *  *
All in all, this episode was a bit frustrating. Everyone — the rest of the team, the audience, the bacteria living in the soil of Mars — can see that there’s nothing to redeem in Fauxrel, and it’s difficult to watch our hero stubbornly cling to hope despite overwhelming evidence that the doubles are who the doubles are, no matter how hard you try to turn their poison into nectar.

Edited January 26, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Review: ‘Arrow’ Sparks Multiple Canary Mysteries With ‘Who Are You?’
Kevin Fitzpatrick   Jan. 25, 2017
http://screencrush.com/arrow-who-are-you-review-laurel/

Quote

As effective as I found the Arrow winter finale, “What We Leave Behind” never felt certain how to interact with its core mystery, let alone toss in another. We didn’t really learn anything about Prometheus (at least that would justify such a guarded identity), and the return of Laurel was tossed into the closing moments with such an afterthought that promos for “Who Are You?” didn’t bother to avoid spoiling her real identity. Granted, Laurel’s return only had so many possible answers, and “Who Are You?” was smart enough to uncover that ruse reasonably early into the hour; it just seemed like tonight’s premiere was equally uncertain what to do with it.

After all, for an otherwise emotionally-satisfying hour, there are a heap of new questions to address here. For one, this is taking place days – if not hours – after Billy’s death, right? Yet three days prior, Prometheus was in Central City breaking out* Earth-2 Laurel (of whom he’s somehow aware), and prepping her for an elaborate infiltration? For that matter, what exactly was the plan, here? I know Prometheus has an odd brand of theatrics, but what was Laurel’s actual task here, and did she, or did she not succeed?

*For the love of Grodd, The Flash has had three years to make sense of incarcerating metahumans in a rational way. Not only did the increasingly-magic Prometheus somehow get in and out of S.T.A.R. Labs unnoticed, but Laurel was apparently gone for THREE DAYS without anyone checking on her. Not to mention, they can very easily return her to authorities in her own universe!
*  *  *
It’s a long list of nitpicks, I know, but that’s the price when Laurel’s return serves primarily to exacerbate the emotional divide between Oliver and Felicity. In that regard, “Who Are You?” gave a strong showing for Emily Bett Rickards to take Felicity a little bit darker and more driven, especially in light of the fact that Oliver clearly prioritized a fake Laurel’s redemption over avenging Billy. There’s a powerlessness threaded there that pushes Felicity to take out her aggression physically, and it’s hard to deny the cheerworthy result of both she and Curtis getting to take down Laurel with their own contributions.

It’s a slight (if murky) victory for Oliver as well, in that he ultimately chooses Felicity over another bout with Prometheus, but still gets his chance to reach out to Laurel.
*  *  *
As I realized in late December, Oliver Queen is a wealthy, inexperienced politician with secret ties to Russia. Happy escapism, everybody!
*  *  *
- Okay, Prometheus has to be a Metahuman or magic, right? Black Siren completely owned everyone in her path, Oliver included, so it’s definitely suspect that she’d be afraid of someone with roughly equal skill.
-“Don’t you say her name!” It’s her name too, dingus.
*  *  *
- Cool, so Curtis will send his portable dampener to Cisco, and The Flash will never have to fight another Metahuman again, right? That’s how this works?
- Hey, there’s another Black Canary. Sure.

Edited January 26, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

jbuffyangel's review of 510 (as usual, includes some great animated gifs)...

THE SHIFT BEGINS: ARROW 5X10 REVIEW (WHO ARE YOU?) 
jbuffyangel  JANUARY 28, 2017 @ 20:40
http://jbuffyangel.tumblr.com/post/156513026323/the-shift-begins-arrow-5x10-review-who-are-you

Edited January 29, 2017 by tv echo
jbuffyangel updated her 510 article link

[manbearpig]

I haven't seen the episode yet, but from that gif it seems like Felicity's punch doesn't even hit Black Siren.

[bethy]

31 minutes ago, tv echo said:

That’s not how this works! That’s not how any of this works!

Haha! I had that same reaction a couple of times with the legal stuff. Um, I'm pretty sure a "writ from the President" doesn't automatically get prisoners transferred, General. 

Also, I'm not a fan of the way they had KC's hair swept over one shoulder the whole time. To me, it makes her face seem really narrow and like the left side of her head doesn't have any hair.

Edited January 26, 2017 by bethy

[dtissagirl]

7 minutes ago, manbearpig said:

I haven't seen the episode yet, but from that gif it seems like Felicity's punch doesn't even hit Black Siren.

To me it looked like the punch itself was aimed at a stunt person instead of KC, hence the awkward editing.

[tv echo]

Arrow 5×10 Review: ‘Who Are You?’
January 26, 2017  by ALYSSA BARBIERI
http://fangirlish.com/arrow-5x10-review/

Quote

“Who Are You?” appears to be the first episode where changes could be made following an overtly criticized first half of the season. Television is written well in advance so a good portion of this season – the first half of the season certainly – was written and some filmed well before the season five premiere. The producers then saw the backlash, which was conveyed through poor ratings, but it was too late for them to do anything about the part of the season that was already written and filmed.

But this episode really felt like one where the fandom’s concerns were addressed, where the absence of a certain fan-favorite couple interacting was corrected, and where there’s really a chance to do right by this show.
*  *  *
So it’s no suprrise that Oliver wasted no time in buying Black Siren’s sob story about being his Laurel that had been saved and finally shows up five months after her death into this exact moment. No, that’s not convenient at all. Still, Oliver elected to believe her. Why? Because of those blinders that Felicity pointed out. Oliver couldn’t save Laurel so he wanted so bad to believe that a miracle could bring her back to them. He wanted to believe in the good for once instead of the bad. Only the good wasn’t real. That wasn’t Laurel. And it almost got some of the people closest to him hurt.
*  *  *
But it was more about how the writers – maybe not intentionally – seemed to pit Felicity fans and Laurel fans against each other. They’re not stupid. They know the drama that has transpired as a result between those two fandoms. So to kind of put them against each other wasn’t cool. It was ridiculous.

If there’s one prominent thing missing from the Arrowverse it’s female friendships. There’s already so much pressure in this world where women are pitted against other women, where they’re judged for being different. Television serves to inspire. It should inspire and promote positive relationships between women. It’s something that I’ve been calling for on Arrow especially. We got a taste of it with Thea and Laurel, but it wasn’t enough.
*  *  *
There’s no denying that the relationship between Oliver and Felicity has been perhaps the biggest spark of this show. It was a game changer in every sense of the word. Especially when it comes to influencing Oliver’s journey to becoming Green Arrow. It’s essential.

When a relationship is the talk of the fandom – both for positive and negative reasons – it’s easy to get lost in that. The producers seemed to take an entirely different direction this season that appeared to be at least partially influenced by the cries of “Arrow has become Felicity & Friends” or “Arrow has become all about Olicity.” And it’s funny because these are probably the same people who love Barry and Iris on The Flash. And The Flash has been more about romance than Arrow has. So what’s the problem?
*  *  *
There’s no denying that there’s been an intentional decision to not have Oliver and Felicity interact like they have in the past, even when they weren’t a couple. They’ve basically breathed the same air in the same room and that’s it. There’s been but a couple of meaningful conversations; conversations that were a weekly occurrence. It’s like Arrow was trying to stay as far away from the romance as possible. And to do that they had to limit those Oliver and Felicity interactions because, as we know, Stephen Amell and Emily Bett Rickards breathe life into those characters and their relationship. Even when Oliver and Felicity aren’t together, it feels like they are because of what Stephen and Emily bring to their performances.

But things for Arrow season 5A weren’t pretty, particularly the ratings. The Olicity fandom has been its own source of advertisement for Arrow over the years. They’ve promoted the show when the network hasn’t. They’ve had tweeting parties, celebrated success, and brought a level of excitement to the fandom. But that hasn’t been present since the producers drove them away with the handling of the two characters’ relationship.
*  *  *
It was a brief introduction, but I’m already seriously digging this new Black Canary. She’s every bit as kickass as they’ve promised with superior physical skills. Not only that, but she’s got a Canary Cry of her own. There’s something about the way that, while she seems to be someone who is dark and a loner, she moves to defend the innocent and punish the guilty that feels so very Black Canary.

Arrow: How Olicity Has Defied Comic Canon
January 17, 2017 by ALYSSA BARBIERI
http://fangirlish.com/arrow-olicity-defied-comic-canon/

Quote

Look, I understand the desire to want faithful translations from book (or comic book in this case) to screen. But if it doesn’t succeed in bringing certain aspects to life (whether that has to do with backstory or a lack of chemistry with actors), then you have to find another route to success.
*  *  *
For Arrow, one of the huge talking points has been Oliver’s love life. The series started off with the intention of telling the love story of Oliver and Laurel. And it did. Only it wasn’t a happy love story. It was a love story that shed a lot of light on the toxicity of their past and why a romantic relationship between them could never work in the future.

But perhaps their greatest failure also led to their greatest success when Felicity Smoak walked into Oliver’s life (more like he walked into her cubicle.)

Immediately there’s was this palpable chemistry between the two that made you sit up a little straighter, made you pay attention because you didn’t want to miss something important that was happening. And while I never imagined at that moment that Arrow would tell their love story, there was no denying that it was there to be told.

Oliver and Felicity’s romance has been one of the most talked about aspects of Arrow, whether you’ve loved it or hated it. Obviously we’re on the side of loving it as we’ve put this comic canon aside and respected the fact that this is a TV show and not a comic book. It might be based on the Green Arrow comics, but it’s an entirely separate entity.
*  *  *
It was Stephen Amell and Emily Bett Rickards and their natural and undeniable chemistry that jumpstarted an epic love story that forever altered the course of the show for the better. It was through their romance that we got to see Oliver evolve from a vigilante crossing names off a list to the hero that Star City is proud to call its own. While it wasn’t Felicity alone that helped cultivate that evolvement, she was a huge part of that transformation. She was his light when he needed it. He wouldn’t have made it to this point without her.
*  *  *
Comic canon is what it is – it’s based in comics. But as we’ve seen since the pilot, Arrow isn’t the Green Arrow comics. Sure, it borrows characters and certain aspects. But it’s something entirely separate. To that degree, it’s not even subject to comic canon.

The funny thing is that Arrow is produced by those that are comic book enthusiasts. And if they can understand that the show isn’t the comics, and if they can understand the importance of letting the show exist as its own entity, then why can’t comic book purists?

While Olicity might be one of the most controversial aspects of the show – given the divide between the fanbases – there’s no denying that it has defied comic canon and everything that comes with it. This relationship was written and cultivated by men who have lived in and around comics all of their lives. It has charmed even them.

Edited January 26, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Arrow Review: Who Are You? (Season 5 Episode 10)
January 26, 2017   Lissete Lanuza Sáenz
http://telltaletv.com/2017/01/arrow-review-who-are-you-season-5-episode-10/

Quote

All in all, though, this was the best Arrow has been this season. Oliver’s willingness to believe Laurel was very much in character, as was Felicity’s ruse to get “Laurel’s” DNA.

Imagine that. Arrow characters behaving like the people we know and used to love.

What works in this episode, however, is not a surprise. It’s the same thing that’s always worked, the thing the show seemed to have lost sight of in their quest to appease the comic book fans or become more “edgy.”

Olicity works.

Felicity Smoak being the smartest person in the room works.

An Oliver Queen who is more heart than action works.

Diggle getting some focus and a story-line all on his own works.
*  *  *
But, and here’s the thing, if this is truly a return to what made the show a success in the first place, why did we need to take this detour? And how do I know that the show will stay on the right path?

We don’t. We have to take this on faith.

It just so happens that I’m running very low on that.
*  *  *
- Rory, when all the other newbies are just a memory, can you please stay? I like you.
- Emily Bett Rickards killed it this episode. KILLED IT. I’ve seen people give props to Stephen Amell for his acting, but I don’t know that enough people recognize the range that EBR has. She can legit do anything, and do it convincingly.
*  *  *
- YES, THEA, WHEN SOMEONE YOU LOVE COMES BACK TO LIFE, YOU GET ON A FREAKING PLANE.
- Even Wild Idiot wasn’t as annoying this episode.
- How come the BS cry didn’t affect Oliver and Felicity but Barry almost died? Oh, wait. Suspend disbelief. Gotcha.
*  *  *
- As much as the narrative made it logical, the whole pitting women against each other deal is overdone. DCTV has proven, time and time again, that they have no idea how to write two women who are not related in anything other than an antagonistic relationship.
*  *  *
- Oh, there’s a new BC. Am I supposed to cheer?
- Where’s reporter chick? Is Oliver still sleeping with her or am I supposed to believe the fiction that he never did?

Edited January 26, 2017 by tv echo

[BkWurm1]

Quote

Rick Gonzalez particularly is a breath of fresh air each week; especially against Amell’s brooding Oliver, Wild Dog’s vibrance and energy is a jolt.

What the???  I can understand that some like WD, but the part about him being a breath of fresh air next to brooding Oliver (when WD almost until this episode out brooded Oliver) or being vibrant or energetic is mind boggling to me.  I guess those words have a different meaning to some people.  

[EmilyBettFan]

9 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

What the???  I can understand that some like WD, but the part about him being a breath of fresh air next to brooding Oliver (when WD almost until this episode out brooded Oliver) or being vibrant or energetic is mind boggling to me.  I guess those words have a different meaning to some people.  

Blinders. Wild dog still sucks for me lol

[tv echo]

I will not say anything mean, I will not say anything mean...

ARROW: "WHO ARE YOU?" REVIEW
JESSE SCHEEDEN  25 JAN 2017
http://www.ign.com/articles/2017/01/26/arrow-who-are-you-review

Quote

More than anything, I was pleased to see Black Siren return because I like Earth-2 Laurel Lance more than Earth-1 Laurel Lance. Laurel often suffered from the same problem Iris West does on The Flash. She’s too bland compared to the rest of the main cast, and too rarely is she given anything interesting to do. Both characters have a harder edge on Earth-2 that makes them more enjoyable to watch. Cassidy again made the most of this darker, more vindictive version of her character. The faux-innocent routine early on worked especially well, as there was just enough stiffness to her performance to signal that something was amiss. The two prison cell interrogation scenes also worked nicely, with Laurel showing a bit of pathos in her reunion with Ollie and savoring the chance to turn the screws with Felicity.

Felicity has a harder edge of her own now that’s serving the character well. She arguably suffered the most from Prometheus’ recent attack, what with her ex-boyfriend being tricked into murdering her current boyfriend. Rather than simply take her rage out on Ollie, Felicity is channeling it into the hunt for Prometheus. Not that Felicity’s normally bubbly personality doesn’t have its charms, but this darker, more driven Felicity definitely fits the general tone of the show.
*  *  *
The problem is that the episode didn’t deliver a very satisfying answer when it came to the question of whether Earth-2 Laurel still has good left in her. When the pivotal moment came, she still tried to kill Ollie and Felicity. There’s little sense from the way this episode wrapped that the writers are trying to build a redemptive arc for Laurel. Instead, the plot abruptly shifted to this hunt for a new Black Canary, because for some reason there’s another random woman with sonic scream powers and a love of beating up thugs. The show is going to have an uphill battle in proving that introducing a new Black Canary is a better idea than having Black Siren take her place. Then again, maybe I’m just resentful about the show shifting over to Hub City and not including The Question.
*  *  *
The Diggle subplot was also enjoyable, mainly because it’s always such a joy to watch Josh Segarra do his thing as Adrian Chase. Chase has charisma to rival the likes of Damien Darhk, but of a slightly more subtle variety. It’s impossible to tell if he’s on the level or has a sinister agenda in mind. He still seems the most likely candidate to be Prometheus, but regardless, there’s definitely some big secret waiting to be revealed on the Chase front.

Edited January 27, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

‘Arrow’ Recap: And Black Canary’s Secret Is...
Robert Chan  January 26, 2017
https://www.yahoo.com/tv/arrow-recap-and-black-canarys-secret-is-121432221.html 

Quote

Felicity fans are going to love tonight’s Arrow. She has zero effs to give after the death of her boyfriend and, when Laurel’s reappearance sends Oliver into a tailspin, Felcity steps up like a boss. Keep the team in line? Check. Wrangle a self-pitying mayor/vigilante? Check. Knock out a supervillain with a wicked right hook? Check and double check.
*  *  *
The Boss
What do you get when you combine an emotionally vulnerable Oliver, an imprisoned Diggle, a gaggle of new recruits, and a boyfriend murdered by your ex? You get Turbo Felicity. You get a Felicity who doesn’t put up with Ollie’s crap when it’s obvious he’s getting played by the Laurel doppelganger. She directs the team to take her down; she releases her to track down the big boss, then when that plan fails, she straight up decks Black Siren and sends her to prison. Brains and brawn. *sigh* Is there anything she can’t do?

We’ll probably get original flavor Felicity soon enough, but this is the version we should have – most of the time, anyway. It’s the Felicity we deserve, but maybe not the one we need.
*  *  *
*1400 Brand Boulevard (where the team confronts Black Siren and Prometheus) is the address of a Chevy dealership in Los Angeles. Coincidence? Or does Stephen Amell have a secret fleet of Camaros somewhere?

*So … Prometheus broke Black Siren out of S.T.A.R. Labs and trained him to go deep cover just so Oliver could experience losing her again? He’s had some pretty convoluted plans before, but this might be the most complicated for the smallest return. Maybe this isn’t a vengeance thing. Maybe it’s Talia al Ghul who’s just running him through some weird League of Assassins training scenario?

*Line of the Night: “Hey — kept my wrists straight.” Bad. Ass.

Edited January 27, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

The Arrow Mid-Season Premiere: They Sure Didn’t Wait Long to Answer “Who Are You?”
Posted on January 26, 2017 by Kelly Konda 
https://weminoredinfilm.com/2017/01/26/the-arrow-mid-season-premiere-they-sure-didnt-wait-long-to-answer-who-are-you/

Quote

For those expecting the real Laurel Lance to return and take center stage, this episode had to be a disappointment. Moreover, for those expecting the series to at least start the process of transitioning the Earth-2 Laurel into being one of the good guys as well as the rightful heir to the title of Black Canary this episode likely registered as frustrating. It ended with the repeatedly unrepentant Laurel locked away and some woman we’ve never seen before presented to us as the possible new Black Canary, seeing as how she’s putting the Canary tech to good use and Oliver is newly determined to pick Laurel’s successor. The show has all the ingredients it needs to put Laurel Lance-Black Canary back together again, but it’s going a different direction, at least in the short term.
*  *  *
Yet I’m okay with that. Between Gossip Girl, Supernatural and Arrow, Katie Cassidy has consistently shown she’s better at playing villains or characters with a bit more of an edge to them. Long term, Black Siren likely is being set up on some kind of redemptive arc, but for now the writers and Cassidy herself appear to be having just too much fun playing her as a vixen, as supremely evident in all the taunts she kept hurling Felicity’s way in “Who Are You?.” The “this is why I behave the way I do” sob story she told Oliver might be true or at least partially true, but to think that the power of Oliver’s words/love would cure her soul in a single episode is kind of an insult to her as a character. She might become the Faith to Oliver’s Angel, or she might already be earmarked for a return stint to The Flash or mini-arc on Legends. Wherever she ends up, though, I hope they drop that damn nose ring.
*  *  *
To some, this might ring a tad hollow because we never spent enough time with Felicity’s boyfriend to truly understand him or his relationship with her and thus don’t completely connect with her obvious sense of loss. However, she was a badass in this episode, coldly logical in her planning and quick to toss multiple well-placed stings Oliver’s way. Felicity this season has been clearly re-set to a pre-season 4 version of herself and somewhat de-emphasized in the plotting, the producers way of saying they might have pushed her too far to the front of the show last year. However, “Who Are You?” gave us a version of Felicity who didn’t have to just be adorkable or mother hen to the new recruits nor did she have to be cycling through romantic melodrama with Oliver (as was too often the case last season). Instead, she kind of kicked ass, even if’s all keyed off the death of a character we never truly got to know.
*  *  *
3. Not a nitpick, more an observation: if Felicity offers you a glass of water you are now completely justified to suspect she’s up to something.
*  *  *
5. Season 5 appears to be pivoting toward a new arc in which the team trains a new Black Canary, but for the longest time I thought’s exactly what was happening with Evelyn. When exactly did Evelyn stop being Black Canary 2.0 and turn into Arrow’s version of Artemis?
6. Felicity punched Black Siren in the face, to which I’m sure half the internet applauded and the other half yelled for Black Siren to get back up and fight back.

[tv echo]

I disagree with the Felicity comments...

Arrow “Who Are You?” Review (Season 5, Episode 10)
Jessica Breaux  January 26, 2017
http://www.tvequals.com/2017/01/26/arrow-who-are-you-review-season-5-episode-10/

Quote

Sometimes, it’s quite difficult to see the good in people when you’re constantly confronted with the bad. It’s difficult to remain hopeful when experience has demonstrated time and time again that hope gets you hurt. But, as Andy reminds us in The Shawshank Redemption, hope is a good thing. Maybe the best of things. That’s the message Oliver was trying to convey to Felicity, and one he probably has to keep reminding himself too.
*  *  *
... Part of that is Oliver desperately trying to make amends for, in his mind, failing Laurel and leading to her demise. But a bigger part of it is Oliver desperately trying to find redemption for himself. Oliver has done some horrible things and made some epic mistakes. Most recently, he’s responsible for Billy’s death which has led Oliver to question his own relative goodness. Is he just a murderer masquerading as a hero? Is he really a good man who has just had one bad situation after another thrown at him? Is he light or has the darkness consumed him? These are questions he’s asking himself, and evil Black Canary’s appearance gives Oliver a chance to figure out whether he’s past saving.

If Oliver can “save” Laurel, then that means he isn’t beyond saving either. But what Oliver’s logic fails to factor in is choice. Yes. Circumstances have a great impact on our lives and the choices we make. Yes. Our nature also has a great impact on our lives and the choices we make. But the common denominator is choice, and that what Oliver’s logic fails to include. Evil Black Canary is who she is partially because of her situation, partially because of her nature, but mostly because of her own choices. The same is true of Oliver. He’s responsible for Billy’s death because he chose to confront Prometheus on his own despite having a team ready and willing to help him. He’s responsible for Billy’s death because he continually chooses not to listen to anyone’s counsel but his own. Oliver thinks that by saving evil Black Canary he can save himself, but the truth is, the only way for Oliver to save himself is to make better choices. Besides, evil Black Canary has already told Oliver that the Laurel he’s looking to find in her doesn’t exist and, to paraphrase Dr. Maya Angelou, when people tell you who they are, believe them.

Felicity didn’t have the same problem seeing through evil Black Canary. Ordinarily, I would applaud Felicity being on her game enough to recognize that Laurel suddenly returning from the dead wasn’t a good thing. Ordinarily, I would applaud Felicity being smart enough to surrepticiously obtain Laurel’s DNA so she could confirm her identity. Ordinarily, I would applaud Felicity slapping some sense into Oliver when he automatically trusts her with no questions asked. However, despite how please I was to see Felicity being smart again, she turned right around and ruined it by being stupid.

Every time Team Arrow goes out on a mission, it’s a dangerous situation. It’s important for everyone to follow orders and do their jobs so that everyone can come back home in one piece. That’s one of the reasons I don’t like Rene. He never follows orders, and his failure to do so has gotten people hurt. That’s why I have never been more frustrated by Felicity than when she went on a different channel to give Rene, Curtis, and Rory different orders after Oliver told them to hold position. Considering how frustrated I’ve been by Felicity for the last season and a half, that’s saying a lot. It wasn’t just a stupid thing to do. That was a dangerous thing to do, and it could’ve gotten Oliver and everyone else hurt and/or killed. There is one leader of Team Arrow, and that’s Oliver. It’s especially not someone who isn’t in the field and doesn’t have the total picture of what’s going on. Then, to add insult to injury, the narrative validated Felicity’s bad behavior by Oliver basically saying, ‘yeah, you released a dangerous sociopath out into the world, you put me and the rest of the team at risk, you almost cost two security guards their lives, but it’s cool because we almost got Prometheus.’ Um….what?!

It’s nothing new that Felicity stood up to Oliver. She’s never held her tongue when she believes Oliver is in the wrong, and that’s actually saved Oliver’s life on more than one occasion. However, she’s also always understood the dangers Oliver faced while he was out doing his thing. So whenever she’s had beef with him, she waited until he was safely back at HQ to give him the dressing down he deserved. For her to not only give the team orders contrary to Oliver’s, but to also go behind Oliver’s back to let evil Black Canary go was not only frustrating, it was out of character. I’m guessing this behavior was supposed to demonstrate how off Felicity is because of Billy’s death, but the narrative did not do a good job of showing that at all. Felicity just came off as overbearing and self-righteous.
*  *  *
All in all, this was a rather lackluster episode. The fight sequences were ok, but lacked any real intensity. ...  Next week’s episode finds Team Arrow looking to add another Black Canary to their ranks. Let’s hope she works out better than Evelyn....

Edited January 27, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Evil Laurel, Curtis' crisis, a new Canary (?!) and Felicity gets a KO in the latest Arrow
Trent Moore  Thu, Jan 26, 2017 7:00am
http://www.blastr.com/2017-1-26/evil-laurel-curtis-crisis-new-canary-and-felicity-gets-ko-latest-arrow

Quote

Felicity made some of her biggest power plays yet in this episode, taking a few pages out of Oliver's shady, one-man plan playbook. Yes, she's still distraught from Billy's death, but the fact that Felicity pulls all this off on her own is pretty brilliant. From the fake party to get her DNA to the fake jailbreak to plant a tracker on her, it was all exactly the type of stuff Oliver has been doing for five years now. She's come a long way, and seeing her embrace the conniving aspects of Oliver she has come to hate could be a slippery slope.
*  *  *
Oh yeah, and FELICITY'S PUNCH-OUT WAS AWESOME.
*  *  *
After the big set-up of what Laurel's Black Canary statue represents for the city as a whole, it was a shame to have it shattered by Black Siren during her final fight. Yes, they were going for some symbolism about that Laurel being gone and needed to try and move forward, but still — the lady deserves a statue. 
*  *  *
The closing scene of the episode introduces us to the new character Tina Boland (played by Juliana Harkavy), who we see use Canary Cry tech to take out some tool bags at a seedy bar. With Oliver looking to fill the Black Canary void on the team. Huh. 

[Chaser]

25 minutes ago, tv echo said:

I disagree with the Felicity comments...

Arrow “Who Are You?” Review (Season 5, Episode 10)
Jessica Breaux  January 26, 2017
http://www.tvequals.com/2017/01/26/arrow-who-are-you-review-season-5-episode-10/

What?

So it's acknowledged that Oliver is emotionally compromised but Felicity taking steps to make she he isn't taken down by that makes her self righteous and over bearing? 

She's right and he's wrong but that doesn't matter cause Oliver is Team leader?

[tv echo]

Arrow Season 5 Episode 10 Review: Who Are You?
Jim Dandy    Jan. 25, 2017
http://www.denofgeek.com/us/tv/arrow/261750/arrow-season-5-episode-10-review-who-are-you

Quote

The episode ends up being about Ollie’s attempts to maintain his optimism in the face of the real world – he struggles, constantly trying to give Earth-2 Laurel a benefit of the doubt she doesn’t deserve and constantly betrays, while Felicity plays Oliver’s “trust no one” role. This is a pretty welcome role reversal: the highlight of the show for me was in the "Invasion" episode, when Oliver finally came to terms with everyone he lost (and also in the "Invasion" episode of Legends of Tomorrow when he and Barry had that drink), so casting him as the optimist hoping against hope that he can fix the world is much more appealing to me. Also, Felicity throws a solid right hook.

Speaking of growth, Katie Cassidy’s come a long way since season 1. In many ways her evolution as an actor has mirrored the show’s – she started out overacting like it was her job, and it was. The show was heavy on the CW melodrama. It hadn’t developed its own voice yet. Here, though, she’s almost subtle and understated, and the show has avoided beating the viewer about the head and neck with its message all season. Even though she was called on to be glam and over the top as hell – and she vamped it up hardcore – there were still moments of quiet connection that made Oliver’s attempts at redeeming her feel justified, even if they were naïve.

Edited January 27, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

This Week’s Arrow Marks The Return Of Laurel Lance To Star City In “Who Are You?”
Verena Cote   January 26, 2017
http://www.4ye.co.uk/2017/01/this-weeks-arrow-marks-the-return-of-laurel-lance-to-star-city-in-who-are-you/

Quote

It further sets up Felicity’s journey to the dark side, as evident in her sometimes rash and reckless decisions. She no longer consults Oliver, and seems to value action over strategy. It’s exciting to see that side of her. We also couldn’t be happier to see that the quirky and funny Felicity we love is still there. For how long though? We wonder. The tension between her and Oliver is palpable, almost charged, which is something we are always here to witness.

Another interesting dynamic this episode introduced is between Adrian Chase and John Diggle. The former agreed to represent the convict, going above and beyond to secure that justice is served. We would love to see more of that storyline.
*  *  *
Two new players join the field in the form of Talia al Ghul in the Russia flashbacks and the yet to be introduced woman from Hub City in the present. Talia is one of DC’s most well-known characters and we can’t wait to see where Arrow is going with her. What is her involvement with Oliver? Will he learn more about the League of Assassins in Russia?

In comparison, our interest in the possible new Canary is minimal. Do we really need another one? Haven’t there been countless attempts at bringing back what was lost with the death of Sara Lance in season three? We thought we were done with all that after the barely believable attorney-turned-vigilante arc in season three and four. When Arrow tried to push yet another Black Canary down our throats in the form of Evelyn Sharp? We had enough. It’s time to let that whole identity go. We highly doubt replacing a significant character with several unspectacular ones will be worth it, or honor the Lance sister’s legacy.

Edited January 27, 2017 by tv echo

[dtissagirl]

21 minutes ago, Chaser said:

What?

So it's acknowledged that Oliver is emotionally compromised but Felicity taking steps to make she he isn't taken down by that makes her self righteous and over bearing? 

She's right and he's wrong but that doesn't matter cause Oliver is Team leader?

The boobs could have not listened to her and obeyed their team leader's orders, but they did, are they also self-righteous and over bearing?

Oh, wait, that only happens when you have a vagina.

[insomniadreams88]

And didn't Felicity say to move in if BS was turning on them? It's not like she told them, "Okay, as soon as BS shows up, attack!" 

[Velocity23]

 

[LeighAn]

1 hour ago, tv echo said:

Arrow Season 5 Episode 10 Review: Who Are You?
Jim Dandy    Jan. 25, 2017
http://www.denofgeek.com/us/tv/arrow/261750/arrow-season-5-episode-10-review-who-are-you

Haha I'm sorry but there was nothing about Black Siren that was subtle and understated.

[lemotomato]

I'm glad that it seems most reviewers liked Felicity being in charge and the punch.

[wonderwall]

Just now, lemotomato said:

I'm glad that it seems most reviewers liked Felicity being in charge and the punch.

Reviewers who didn't:

• Andy Behbahkt
• Natalie Abrams

LMAO 

[EmilyBettFan]

11 hours ago, wonderwall said:

Reviewers who didn't:

• Andy Behbahkt
• Natalie Abrams

LMAO 

LMFAO is right. Couldn't be more obvious.

[tv echo]

510 discussion starts at 1:07 mark (I'm kinda 'huh?' on Craig's love triangle comments)...

Agents of GEEK Podcast
Craig Wack & Tatiana Torres 01/26/2017
http://agentsofgeekpodcast.com/wordpress/

-- Craig thought that, although the story was "well-crafted" and "the action was nice," he didn't like the episode. Tatiana had "mixed feelings" about the episode. She couldn't love it "because Laurel was a large part of this episode, whether she's hashtag our Laurel or regular - I don't give a shit - too much Laurel." But Tatiana didn't necessarily not like it, but she felt like "there was something missing". Still, she didn't think it was the worst episode of Arrow. 

-- Craig said that he didn't think it was the worst episode, but "75% of it is because it's a Laurel episode... and so much of it is concentrated on that 11th hour element that they did with her." Craig then noted that "we got 4.89 seasons worth of, like, Laurel disliking Ollie or, you know, Ollie's various alter egos and doing things, like, out of spite to Ollie." 

-- Tatiana: "I don't understand why Laurel is supposed to be this great figure that we have remorse for or are sad for all the time. She was the worst! She was mean. She never listened to you. She used to take pot shots at you when you were going through shit because, like, Tommy died and somehow that was all your fault, even though clearly his father killed him and they were all awful before Ollie came back. Like, I don't - that is the one thing that I will never understand. Laurel was not a good person."

-- Craig: "Right. And the writers, from a character point of view, could never really knew what to do with her... First she started out as a defense attorney and that lasted all of the pilot. Then suddenly it's like, oh well, she's a - she's a prosecutor now. And then, you know, that really didn't go anywhere. So they, you know - okay, Tommy died so we're going to make her an addict. That'll maybe give her some depth... And they never really let Laurel have a win, you know, an out-and-out win.... Even when she became a hero, the running joke was... the bad guys always got the drop on her and then whoever happened to be driving the black van, you know, came in, you know, from off-screen to hit said person who had Laurel dead to rights with their shotgun, rifle, axe, whatever-the-hell it was. And the scene that totally sums up Laurel's experience on Arrow - and it was, I think, in season 3... in fact, it was the boxing glove arrow episode - she actually has a scene where she's driving a car, she's got Wild Cat next to her, and like bad guy du jour is in the back or something, and... for some reason bad guy gets in the front of the car. And she... spins the wheel and does this awesome 360 maneuver that throws the guy off the car. Then they cut away to him landing on the ground or Ollie jumping on him to beat on him or whatever. And then when they come back, you know, Laurel is so overcome by going in a tight circle, she passes out and runs into the only car that is on this road... And it's like 'what?' And she goes to the hospital and she goes to the bed that she would eventually die in, but it's just - it's just like they had this moment where she coulda done bad - something badass, she coulda like parked the car, but it's like nope, nope, she had to snatch defeat out of the jaws of victory and crash into a car."

-- Craig: "So this is what has shaded my watching of this episode. And even though it isn't actual Laurel, the whole thing - Ollie is holding onto the alien dream that he had where everything is great." Tatiana interjected that she had to give Oliver some credit because his life is "sucky right now" so he's grasping straws. 

-- Craig said that Oliver's "fighting so hard for the affections of a dead woman," but when Oliver broke up with Felicity, he was like, "oh okay, but are you still going to make coffee for me though?" Tatiana disagreed and said, "No, he was sad!" She mentioned the fake wedding last season. She thought that Oliver "has steeled himself off" when it comes to Felicity because "he already knows how much it has already hurt both of them." Craig felt like Oliver has just given up on that relationship with Felicity. Tatiana noted that Oliver seemed still to have feelings for Felicity at the beginning of the season, but she was dating the "random dude" at the time, so Oliver started flirting with the "lying reporter." Tatiana also noted that the reporter wasn't even in this episode at all, even though she was in that trailer: "You know, 'who you love,' and I was like, 'what the f**k?!'"

-- Craig pointed out that this was just like when Oliver went to get comfort from Lying Reporter right after he had killed Felicity's boyfriend and now, when her boyfriend's body was still warm, Oliver was going up to Black Siren and going, "Hey baby, what's up?" Tatiana disagreed and said it was more like Oliver seeing a chance at redemption.

-- Tatiana then wanted to focus on "how badass Felicity was." Craig noted that Felicity did break down a little in this episode, but Tatiana reminded him that her boyfriend had just died. Craig did like the "Hey, pumpkin" line and punch. Craig said that "Oliver was kinda mopey and lovesick and trying to figure out what he had from Black Siren," but Felicity "had her eyes on the prize and was like, 'yeah, I'm not believing a thing this chick says,'" so Felicity was focused on finding Prometheus because "after all, that's what we're here for." Tatiana liked that, when Oliver called out Felicity for going against his orders, she was like, "f**k this" and stood up for herself, and she took all these steps herself because it was the right thing to do. Tatiana: "There was no wishy-washiness to her, for the most part this week, and I really like that." Craig: "No, there was no indecision at all."

-- Tatiana thought that near the end of the episode, there was maybe "baby steps" toward making us think that "Olicity might happen again down the line, but... not any time soon." Tatiana mentioned a tweeter who said that, if Olicity happens again, "it must be with this Felicity." Tatiana said to remember when Olicity was together, Felicity became someone who was only "an agent of the relationship." Craig agreed: "She became as weepy as Barry." Tatiana agreed and said that, if they ever go back to Olicity, Felicity needs to be this badass Felicity and also Oliver can't go back to being dark, brooding, lying Oliver. Craig agreed and said Oliver can't go back to keeping secrets from Felicity. Tatiana said that they must both be adults, which "is not popular in the Berlanti-verse."

-- Craig was concerned that, since Oliver is keeping Black Siren "handy" at ARGUS prison, if there is a S6 or even farther down the road this season, if "this substitute Canary they're trying to find in Hub City next episode doesn't work out," there's that "Black Siren redemption story they're holding on in their back pocket." Tatiana: "Gosh, I hope not." Tatiana said that there's no redemption on Arrow - Malcolm wasn't redeemed, Diggle's brother wasn't redeemed - "When you're bad, you're f**kin' bad." Craig said that if it just keeps Oliver a little optimistic (like Felicity said), then he's okay with that, but if they keep going with the part where "Oliver keeps dreaming" of Laurel because they need reasons to keep bringing KC back on the show, then he's "not a huge fan of that idea" and he's "not a huge fan of the Black Siren redemption story" because she "has a completely different life experience... so any hope that she's even remotely close" to the Earth-1 Laurel Lance "is just infinitesimally possible."

-- Tatiana thought that Curtis was "a worse superhero than Laurel." Craig liked that Curtis was going to be a "tech hero rather than a beat-em-up hero." Tatiana noted that when Laurel lost, "she would just get mad and pretend she didn't lose," but when Curtis loses, he's like, "I'm the worst, I'm going to go cry for an hour." Both Tatiana and Craig liked the bonding between Curtis and Wild Dog.

-- What bothered Craig the most in this episode was the "Oliver-Felicity-Black Siren love triangle" and creating an 11th hour "relationship that wasn't there." He also noted that the only times we saw Laurel "carrying a torch" for Oliver were in flashbacks. Tatiana also was bothered by the ret-conning of Laurel and said that if anyone disagrees, they should go back and watch the last four seasons: "She's not nice and she's frequently outright mean and evil to Oliver, even when they're on the same f**king team. It's not until the last few episodes that she's like, 'oh, I'm going to work with Oliver, yeah!'" 

-- Craig noted that "it's not like we never spent any private time with Laurel, we did, but it was always to reinforce the fact that she is this - you know, grab bag of character flaws... oh, she's hanging out alone in her apartment... oh, she's taking a handful of pill and chasing them with wine... that's what we found out about Laurel in her private time.  Even though she had a big spat with Oliver, she's still, like, holding on to her little precious picture that she's allegedly carrying with her." Tatiana: "That's getting old in the show, by the way. We get it. He had the photo. I doubt it went with him from the island, everywhere, in every flashback. Stop it."

-- Regarding the ending scene with Tina, Craig: "I'm not exactly sold on, you know, suddenly there's this person with the exact same powers as Canary hanging out in Hub City... that we have never seen or heard before" Tatiana: "That was weird... But these seemed more like metahuman, like natural powers."

Arrow Review: Ollie Shows a Newfound Sentimental Side
BY CRAIG WACK · JANUARY 26, 2017
http://oohlo.com/2017/01/26/arrow-review-ollie-shows-a-newfound-sentimental-side/

Quote

This launches the episode’s central dramatic struggle which is a the return of a love triangle of sorts between Ollie, Felicity, and Ollie’s idealized version of Laurel — embodied in Black Siren.
*  *  *
Ollie talks to Siren and she gives him a song and dance about how even though she’s from a totally different universe, with a totally different life experience, there may be the possibility that a sliver of the Laurel he loved is inside her. While it may be true, Ollie, in his state of blindness caused by grief, guilt, remorse and love, accepts this story wholly, without question.

His attitude crushes Felicity in a number of ways. First, remember we’re mere hours removed from Oliver accidentally pumping a bunch of arrows into Felicity’s boyfriend, so she’s still a little sore over that. Second and most importantly, there’s still a lot of unspoken love between Oliver and Felicity, yet Oliver doesn’t appear to be remorseful or sentimental that it is gone.

This triangle is one of the most troubling aspects of the post-Laurel era of Arrow. Before her death, Laurel was just one of many girlfriends Ollie treated like hot garbage when he was a directionless playboy, and Laurel went out of her way to spite Ollie at every opportunity. Since then, she’s been built up as Oliver’s lost soulmate which is accurate according to the comics, but rings hollow from a show that once took pride in bucking comic canon, and spent so much time nurturing the Olicity love affair.
*  *  *
This episode, while well-crafted was also quite frustrating. The whole veneration of Laurel is vexing because Laurel/Black Canary was such a divisive character with the fans, and a character the writers of the show never really got firm hold of, so she became a grab bag of character flaws, without many personal success stories. If the return of a Laurel to Oliver’s life brings out this optimism that Felicity sees, then so much the better, especially with Diggle still in jail and Talia Al’Ghul introduced at the end of the hour. However, count me as skeptical that any major change in Oliver’s outlook is on the horizon.

Edited January 29, 2017 by tv echo

[ComicFan777]

Confused...when was Felicity "weepy as Barry" in S4?  My memory is hazy of S4 now, but did we even see her break down because of BMD or the breakup?  And what love triangle?  Laurel is his "lost soulmate"...I didn't see this at all...What show have I been watching?

Edited January 28, 2017 by ComicFan777

[dtissagirl]

Wow, dudes really watch tv weird.

[Chaser]

Generally they are making Laurel a hell of a lot more important to the show. Specifically to Oliver as I don't think anyone else has waxed poetry about her nearly as much. However, I don't think their romantic history was touched by that. In 5x08, he made it clear he was never the guy for her and had zero problems leaving her (his parents and sister but not Laurel). In 5x10, Laurel was always referred to as 'our Laurel' not 'his'. It was about his guilt over her death - that's in text. 

I think its being side eyed because after 5x05 they stopped writing Olicity directly but Laurel keeps getting mentioned.

[insomniadreams88]

They didn't even let Felicity break down when she thought she'd never walk again. We didn't get to see her POV about the breakup. She was not weepy in S4. 

And a love triangle? Wow I really am watching a different show than some people.