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The Starling City Times: News and Media about Arrow


Grammaeryn
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The reviewer is saying, though, that Felicity is hogging show time, and that's why Laurel got the spotlight - because she was gone.

Agreed. It wasn't meant to be a slam on Laurel, just the EPs/writers for daring to give airtime to characters that were actually working as opposed to one that was not and he's pressed about it. I find that whole line of thinking so silly because Laurel was being sidelined well before Olicity became a thing. There were several episodes in S2 where Laurel didn't even appear at all.

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I’m not sure what you’ve read in ANY Green Arrow story or iteration that gave you the impression that the Green Arrow as a hero requires the presence of Black Canary to be worthy of having his story told in a mainstream media like television, but that’s the most misguided misconception I’ve ever heard. To make such a foolish proclamation completely disregards everything Arrow has shown since the pilot. This is the story of the Green Arrow. If you didn’t come for that, you’re no better than the romance shippers many of you claim are ruining the show for wanting and enjoying….wait for it, a romance on a superhero show. You’re essentially a shipper yourself demanding that Green Arrow can’t exist without Black Canary. That’s called shipping, dear. Own it.

 

So much this!!!!

 

Also agree with Laurel never being Dinah from the comics. I never thought of her that way which is why I don't feel like they disrespected the comics by killing Laurel. She was never comic Black Canary. 

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KC is pretty much confirming all the rumors of unprofessional behavior and not getting along with the cast and crew imo.I always thought she was like that based on what I've seen tbh.I don't get why do it though.Does it really make her feel better to like tweets about the show being cancelled, pandering to tumblr, olicity killing it, Laurel and herself deserving better etc? I mean kinda dumb to cause drama like that while giving interviews saying how much she loves the show and everyone on it and how she agreed Laurel's story has come to an end.

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The reviewer is saying, though, that Felicity is hogging show time, and that's why Laurel got the spotlight - because she was gone.

 

Yes, that was clear to me.  I'm commenting only on Felicity's absence this episode, and why I was happy for it.  Don't care about his theory that Felicity gets more screentime at the expense of Laurel's, thus I'm ignoring it.

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I was bored, so I went to see what Emergency Awesome thought of the episode. He was actually pretty pragmatic about BC getting killed off, even pointing out to "all the people saying you can't have GA without BC" that not all the comics had GA with BC, and "this version of Laurel Lance was never the comic book version of BC." He also liked Laurel's last conversation with Oliver, and thought that the "love of my life" line was a "good hat tip to big comic book fans."

 

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(edited)

Craig Wack & Tatiana Torres discuss this week's Arrow beginning at 00:34:45...

 

Agents of GEEK Podcast Episode 23
Posted on 04/08/2016
http://agentsofgeekpodcast.com/wordpress/
 

-- Craig says, "Ding Dong, Laurel Lance is dead."  Tatiana says, "Oh, that's so callous, so callous... We all dislike Laurel, but she's dead. And let's all take a moment of silence... Okay, that's done!" Craig then says that the reason he's "so cavalier" about Laurel's death is because he doubts she's really dead, saying "they've left the door way too open and they're selling the fact that she's dead way too hard... It all just doesn't add up." Craig also notes the lack of social media reactions from other cast members as clues that she's not really dead.

 

-- Tatiana comments on the scene where Oliver shows Laurel's photo to the girl on the island and says that Laurel was "his home" before the boat crash, saying, "Fool, you were cheating on her before that boat crashed! ... He was boning her sister... in addition to boning other people! ... Don't act like she was this big love of your life. You treated her like garbage."

 

-- Craig then comments that Laurel's been carrying around a picture of herself and that, despite this "deep love for Tommy Merlyn that she's had in previous seasons," Laurel tells Oliver that he'll always be the love of her life.  Craig says that that's "completely contrary" to everything that's happened" on the show since Oliver returned from the island.  He was "boning her sister" and Laurel had "totally froze Oliver out".  He noted that for three seasons, Laurel has been "icy and combative with Oliver." Tatiana: "And now they're just BFFs again." Craig: "She blamed him for Sara's death. For the longest time, she blamed him for Tommy's death. ... They actually create this bit of detente over the last three or four episodes. And suddenly it's like, oh well, you know, you'll be my one true love for ever and always." Tatiana (gagging): "Vomit." 

 

-- Craig notes that Laurel asks Oliver for a promise, then the show cuts away to outside the room so that we don't hear what they say, and then all of a sudden the doctors are coming in with the crash cart. They're both still doubting Laurel's death, comparing it to Jon Snow's "death" on Game of Thrones (where he's been seen filming on set, despite everyone's saying Jon Snow's dead).  They won't believe she's dead unless and until they see her autopsy, esp. on a show that has time travel.

 

-- Craig notes reading comments indicating some discord between KC and other cast members. He also notes fan reactions falling into two camps: those like him and Tatiana who don't believe Laurel is really dead and therefore aren't fazed by it; and those who are anti-Felicity who are up in arms about Laurel's last words including shipping Olicity.

 

-- They then talk about Diggle, Felicity and Oliver feeling guilty about Laurel's death.  Tatiana then notes EK's promotion to series regular. That falls on the Laurel is dead side because they have extra money for another full cast member.

 

-- They then complain about The CW's "random breaks" because the next episode doesn't air for three weeks.  They're looking forward to something finally happening with the Genesis corn.

 

-- As for flashbacks, they note the set-up for Oliver going to Russia.  Craig: "The most significant thing to come out of the flashbacks is that we now know what next season's flashbacks are going to be." (They laugh)

 

-- Craig says that "it was really hard to have a strong emotional reaction" to Laurel's death because "they left the door way open" for her not to be dead.

Edited by tv echo
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(edited)

I was bored, so I went to see what Emergency Awesome thought of the episode. He was actually pretty pragmatic about BC getting killed off, even pointing out to "all the people saying you can't have GA without BC" that not all the comics had GA with BC, and "this version of Laurel Lance was never the comic book version of BC." He also liked Laurel's last conversation with Oliver, and thought that the "love of my life" line was a "good hat tip to big comic book fans."

 

Honest question: has this guy ever made a video panning something he truly really hated? The impression I have is he always spins positive, as if he's scared of hurting the creatives, and the studio, and the comic book houses' feelings.

Edited by dtissagirl
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Arrow “Eleven Fifty-Nine” Review (Season 4, Episode 18)
Jessica Breaux  April 8, 2016
http://www.tvequals.com/2016/04/08/arrow-eleven-fifty-nine-review-season-4-episode-18/

The truth about Andy came to light, and I can’t say I was in any way surprised. ... The truth is, sometimes we go through an event or series of events that is so traumatic that it breaks us into so many pieces we can never really be whole again. We can pick up the shattered parts and try to put them back together, but they’re never going to fit quite right and there will always be a few missing pieces. That’s what’s happened to Andy. He made some really bad choices that led him to Damien Darhk. After he hooked up with Darhk, he was shattered beyond repair.
 

... So in addition to that revelation, Dig also has to deal with the guilt of being part of the reason Laurel is dead. I’m not saying it’s entirely his fault because it’s not. But at the same time, Dig’s choices directly impacted Laurel’s situation. Aside from the very heavy emotional toll this is going to take on Dig, this is also an extremely bad situation for everyone tactically. ... Basically, Dig’s uncompromising faith in Andy has now put everyone in jeopardy. Mind you, I’m not judging Dig (that much), but his refusal to even entertain the idea that Andy wasn’t on the up and up was a bad decision that will have far reaching consequences.
*  *  *
I’ve actually been really disappointed with Laurel’s character ever since season two because she had such potential. I get that they wanted her to go through some things so that she could believably channel her grief and anger into Black Canary. That’s perfectly fine, but the journey they took getting there wasn’t fine. There wasn’t enough time spent with the transition, so when it happened, it didn’t feel earned. Thankfully, Laurel has been less whiney in the last handful of episodes and more like the Laurel from season one, and I’ve enjoyed her much more. The problem is, they spent two seasons making her almost unbearable so by this season I was really ready for her to just go sit down somewhere and be quiet. However, I do think the way she went out in this episode was heroic, so at least she got that. Plus, Team Arrow is falling apart and her death may be the thing that pulls them back together. It’s sad, but something needed to happen to get them back on track. But I must admit, I’m not entirely convinced we’re not going to see Laurel again. This show plays fast and loose with death all the time, so who knows what will happen. I do hope they allow Laurel to stay dead though. When you keep bringing people back from the dead (or having them be presumed dead) it lessens the impact of death and lowers the stakes for our heroes.
 

... I get that the island changed Oliver. Quite frankly, there’s no way it couldn’t have. But for Oliver to keep his head so firmly implanted up his rear end is getting old and Dig told him as much. Oliver has been wallowing in self-pity and self–righteousness long enough. It’s more than past time for him to grow up and stop trying to control everyone and everything. You can’t tell grown folks what to do, and if you respect them, you shouldn’t want to. You should be honest with them and allow them to make informed decisions. I’m just wondering how many different people are going to have to tell Oliver that he’s being an idiot before he gets it through his thick head. I’m also pretty much over the Malcolm/Thea drama. I always believed Thea was wrong to just toss aside Robert as her father and accept Malcolm because there’s more to fatherhood than biology. For Thea to keep going back and forth about her relationship with Malcolm is tiresome at this point. I’m well aware that it’s a complicated situation, but nothing Malcolm has done has been for Thea’s benefit and she’s suffered more at his hand than at anyone else’s. I’m really ready for her to just accept that Malcolm is a monster and the only person Malcolm loves is Malcolm. Then she needs to just move on...

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(edited)

USA Today reviewers thought that 418 was a great episode...

 

Allison Brennan and Lavinia Kent on ‘Arrow’ Eleven-Fifty-Nine: Dark and getting Darhker
By Allison Brennan and Lavinia Kent April 8, 2016 6:00 pm
http://happyeverafter.usatoday.com/2016/04/08/allison-brennan-lavinia-kent-arrow-eleven-fifty-nine/

LK: You sum up my feelings pretty well. I kept trying to out-think the writers. I was never sure that things were as straightforward as they seemed, which in some ways they were not. I kept waiting for that added twist, that sudden change at the last second. I wasn’t really surprised by who died. I did think it was the second-most-likely choice, and they certainly had enough clues within the episode. ... I did think it was a great episode — and it was certainly action-packed.
*  *  *
AB: So to recap: Wow. That’s all I got. (Ha!) This episode was so fluid, so fast-paced, so emotional, so dark … and it didn’t let up. It was, IMO, in the Top Five best episodes of the series....
*  *  *
AB: ... This episode was so dark, so violent, but it was absolutely necessary considering the ending. Felicity showed up at the very end and reminded me how much her light is necessary for carrying the show. Not THIS episode — I think it was intentional that the writers took the light (Felicity) from the show because there was nothing light about this show.

LK: I agree about Felicity. This episode shows how dark Oliver (and the team) can be without her. It was not by chance that in their confrontation John taunts Oliver that he drove Felicity away with his sense of self-righteousness. Without Felicity the atmosphere of the whole show is different — and even when she does show up at the end of the episode she doesn’t have her usual quip or joke — I admit for good reason. (And her beige coat and black shirt certainly don’t add any brightness.) ... Felicity’s absence was particularly felt in the Arrow Cave. There was no one to break up the tension between the team....
*  *  *
AB: I have to say here and now that, while I have had my ups and downs on how the writers have incorporated Laurel and the Black Canary into the show — maybe because I just never bought into her and Oliver’s relationship — I have grown to admire her. I think Laurel has grown the most this season. I loved seeing her in the courtroom. I loved her fight scenes with Thea. And I really enjoyed how her friendship with Thea evolved. There was something very natural and real to it. I also love Katie Cassidy, from her days as Ruby on Supernatural (no other actress did Ruby justice). So yes, I have been hard on Laurel, and I don’t take back anything I’ve said about some of her decisions, I still think that she was a strong support for the team.

LK: I also loved Cassidy as Ruby. I think that is some of why I was disappointed with Laurel. My expectations were just too high. That said, I also thought that she did grow and develop over the years and I liked her more all the time — except when I worried the writers were going to get her back with Oliver.
*  *  *
I do look forward to seeing the different versions of Laurel, and Arrow is definitely now a world where anything is possible. I do believe that the writers are not bringing her back as Black Canary, at least in the current timeline. You never know what they will decide to do with Legends. We might see her in an episode or two there.

Edited by tv echo
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(And her beige coat and black shirt certainly don’t add any brightness.)

 

Actually, her sweater was patterened and she had a coral manicure. I noticed, because it stood out in the sombre surroundings.

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No, Olicity Is Not Why ‘Arrow’ Killed Off You-Know-Who
by Samantha Vincenty April 8, 2016 2:14 PM
http://popcrush.com/arrow-death-reactions-eleven-fifty-nine-olicity/

Yes, Ollie and Dinah/Green Arrow and Black Canary are a couple in many major iterations of the DC franchise, and they seemed to be endgame at the beginning of the series. But their amorous reunion on the show was brief — and more importantly, Stephen Amell and Katie Cassidy’s romantic chemistry was tepid at best. They were never going to recreate the epic two-badasses-in-love pairing onscreen that’s canon on the page/lovingly captured with many a figurine. That said, the Arrow writers’ choice to have Laurel tell Ollie he was the “love of her life” was cringeworthy and unnecessary. It undermined a character arc and an actress who, in my opinion, grew in leaps and bounds over the past three seasons. That’s coming from someone who could barely stand her for at least the first 22 episodes, and screamed WHY NOT LAUREEEEL? at the sky when they tried to take Sara Lance from us in Season 3.
 

But no: Laurel was not, to paraphrase Forbes’ piece on the matter,”killed by Olicity.”
 

I count myself among those who’ve found several recent deaths on CW shows problematic. I despise “fridging,” the practice of offing a female character to further the male protagonist’s story, and may never forgive Supernatural for how they did Felicity Day’s Charlie dirty. And the urge to direct anger over a fave’s death toward the couple you think it’s “propping” is also super understandable. In this case, it’s also wrong.
*  *  *
Quentin Lance’s death or Thea’s death #2 would not have delivered the same emotional wallop. John Diggle, while a non-canon character invented for the show, has his own loyal fanbase and is the only other current male member of the team (though they seem to be grooming Felicity’s right-hand-man Curtis Holt to replace her, and DC fans have an inkling of where his terrific character’s likely headed). Felicity is divisive to say the least, but she’s also wildly popular. Laurel had deep connections to the Queen family, has grown close to Felicity and Diggle and was the bridge to Star City forces outside of Team Arrow, i.e. her father Captain Lance and the district attorney’s office. Her death has the farthest reaching implications story-wise, Olicity or no Olicity. Hate them if you will, but their (supposedly over) romantic storyline did not drive Laurel Lance off the show. A plot not going your way does not equal “jumping the shark.”

Edited by tv echo
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How Olicity Has Saved ‘Arrow’

http://fangirlish.com/how-olicity-has-saved-arrow/

...

Over the course of now four seasons we’ve watched as Oliver Queen has evolved from vigilante to hero facing bouts of adversity that had he been alone in the darkness would’ve spelled his end. But along the way Oliver developed two of the most important relationships in his life: his friendship with Diggle and his friendship-turned-true-love with Felicity.

 

The fact of the matter is that Felicity Smoak saved Oliver Queen from himself. First it was through her kindhearted nature as a member of the team, then it was through her loyal friendship, and finally a romance of epic proportions that has breathed sheer happiness into a man who has never believed he deserved it.

 

But the great thing about Oliver and Felicity’s relationship is that is wasn’t spawned overnight. It was a gradual, organic development that formed the strong foundation that defines their relationship to this day. But their love also transcends physical boundaries. Their relationship has never been about the physical intimacy but about the spiritual intimacy that has bonded these two from the start. Their relationship has been built upon a strong foundation of trust that has been heartfelt and inspiring to watch. Their mere presence around each other is enough to tame even the roughest of waters. It was that soul-to-soul connection that I, as well as thousands of fans, easily connected to.

...

 

 

Felicity is one of the 17 TV Characters Who Have Impeccable Style

http://www.tvfanatic.com/slideshows/draft-17-tv-characters-who-have-impeccable-style/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

 

 

CfnGJn5WcAA4zZl.jpg CfnGFVlW8AAqdTX.jpg

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FTW vs. WTF: The TV Week in Review (April 2 - 8)
By TV.com Staff  14 hours ago
http://www.tv.com/news/ftw-vs-wtf-the-tv-week-in-review-146015748624/

Arrow reveals that it's Laurel in the grave, but is she really dead? Does it really matter?
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After setting up the mystery of an impending death for some character in the season premiere, Arrow finally killed off the victim: Laurel Lance. "Eleven-Fifty-Nine" was a nonsensical episode, and Laurel's death was equally nonsensically executed, fine one moment and confessing her love to Oliver and making him swear some unknown promise and then seizing and dying. Did she and Oliver decide to fake her death and not tell anyone (for some reason we can't currently fathom)? Will she be resurrected via a Lazarus Pit, time travel, alternate Earth or some other weird method? If she is, then what's the point of killing off folks, show? If death has no meaning, don't tell us it ups the stakes only to undo it all in five weeks (or early next season).
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I don't knokw how much in the know some of these people are, like have they attended the Q&A with the producers after the screening? Because, if they're just going by what's been shown on screen, I can understand their point of view. The show has played fast and loose with death and its permanence multiple times. Maybe they just need to see how everything unfolds to accept it?

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The Grave was the season's big mystery. The death of a main player is what they have been selling all year. If it's a fake out then it basically voids the season.

 

Without the flash forwards, I could understand people doubting the death. But there are flash forwards, they have been working towards the death and with hindset Laurel has been the set up from the get-go.

 

But all these people in denial ... sigh

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I understand why people might think it's not permanent, but those people are missing pieces of the puzzle.

 

Last season the driving force was the mystery of who killed Sara, and then they reverted it, purely for external reasons, that were widely known months before the resurrection. The funny part, I guess, is this time it's the other way around -- they killed Laurel purely for external reasons [i.e. the network FINALLY let them], but there's no possible way to know that if one's not following the BTS stuff.

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I understand why critics and some are not believing Laurel/BC is dead. The show killed Sara last season and made the whole season about finding her murderer and avenging her. They also tied Sara's death to Laurel becoming BC. After all that, the writers brought Sara back to life this season and gave her a show. They also brought back Malcolm another major character. So, Arrow needs to gain back the trust of the people who doubt they can kill their main characters that some people love. 

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Eh, probably some reviewers just don't think MG trustworthy.  No longer willing to believe him  just cause he says so. Guy plays games. They want to wait and see for themselves what actually happens versus automatically take showrunners on faith

That's true, but it does kind of put MG and WM in an awkward position to respond. They would probably say that she's dead even if she were coming back, but they are approaching these answers in a different way than they did with trying to spin Oliver and Felicity "dying" in 309 and 409. They barely even pretended that they were dead, while with Laurel and with Sara they went to detail on their answers about their deaths, especially with Laurel's. 

 

Plus, with the context of the episode and the show, not even with the BTS stuff, Laurel coming back to life would still be a bit strange. The comparisons I've seen being made don't really match the situation with Laurel. Oliver's death and resurrection: He's the main character, he wasn't going to really die. Felicity's not real death: only 3 months passed (stated in 409 twice), she wasn't going to be in the grave. Thea's death and resurrection: She was never actually dead and no one even really acknowledged it as a death anyway. Roy's death and resurrection: established and finished in the very same episode. Sara's death and resurrection: Completely dead with no inkling of ever returning, which was their intent, until a year later when, because of BTS stuff, everyone already knew she was coming back any way. 

 

With Laurel, the show is going out of its way to sell this death, and I don't really know what else they can do to prove it, since they did come out and say that she is dead. I do admit that the unseen promise shot did not really do them any favors for trying to sell the death, but at this point they are doing their best to prove that she's dead. They did lose a lot of the audience's trust with bringing back dead characters, but at some point if people aren't even going to believe what is presented on screen, there's little more that they can do. 

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To be fair, they specifically showed Malcolm's body wasn't there in the season 1 finale, so I'm willing to give them that one. But they have had Sara raising from the dead multiple times, Thea being mostly dead and then leapfrogging from the pit last year, Slade raising Isabel from the dead, Roy's death fake out, Oliver coming back... They have reason to doubt if they look at what the show has served up so far. They're wrong but the assumptions and doubts are not surprising.


With Laurel, the show is going out of its way to sell this death, and I don't really know what else they can do to prove it

Just keep telling the story on the show. The assumptions will fade over time.

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Oliver's death is what really made death a joke. Sara would die and come back two more times to top Oliver getting stabbed with a sword, falling hundreds of feet down a mountain, then bleeding to death shirtless in the snow for several hours.

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This is why this death really needs to stick for Arrow. The show needs this, and not just for external reasons, but because of what has been established about the impermanence of death in the past. Despite all the pronouncements, all the interviews, a lot of people, including professional critics, are taking a wait-and-see approach. But I think the EPs have expected this, and that's why there will be all kinds of closures on the other shows, too.

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(edited)

Sara is the only one that was dead and buried that got resurrected. She's the exception, not the rule. We've seen the funerals/gravestones for Tommy, Moira, Shado, and Robert Queen, and they have stayed dead. From the flashfoward, it looks like we'll see Laurel's funeral and grave. Even not taking into account that the EPs are insisting that the death will stick, there's little reason to think that Laurel's death is a fakeout except for the persistent idea that she's the Black Canary and she can't be killed because... well, you know.

Edited by lemotomato
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Everyone knew that they weren't gonna kill Oliver. Just get him out of the way for a couple of episodes (like @lemotomato mentioned) so Laurel could become Black Canary and get on Team Arrow without Oliver's interference/approval. But his death was awesome but the aftermath and resolution got flubbed hard (barely any reactions from Team Arrow and penicillin tea). It doesn't help that they based S03 around Sara's death then announced several episodes before the finale that she was coming back (you had one job, Ray!). No one who died in S03 stayed dead except the bad guy. So, it's no surprise it's become a joke. Like Barry and pep talks (you can do it, me!). Got really make this one stick.

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It does make sense that it was supposed to be ambiguous and look like a typical Arrow "death" but this time it sticks. Though me and several others joked that it looked like Oliver offed her because the transition was so bizarre. We'll see. Hopefully, they have a better handle on it than usual.

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Sara is the only one that was dead and buried that got resurrected. She's the exception, not the rule. 

 

With Sara, coming back from the dead is kind of her thing.  Apparently no one made sure Malcolm was dead and Slade had Mirikuru in him. The other deaths have stuck, Shado, Moira and Tommy. 

 

As for the theories of Laurel being on the other shows, LoT has a Laurel, she's called Kendra, no show needs two useless characters. LoT needs a character to bring a different set of skills to the team. Flash seems to be introducing all the Speedsters and Laurel's not an older man to be Barry's one million and one father figure. 

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Very true. The execution was wonky in 418 but I get what they were trying to do after the 419 stills/blurb, and

the news that they're saving Oliver's promise to Laurel for next season

came out.

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Someone better at this than I should post pics of SA at the MTV awards. He looks very handsome. No hat of any kind.

 

https://twitter.com/hashtag/mtvmovieawards?f=images&vertical=default&src=hash

 

https://twitter.com/SAEBRfan/status/718979729064357888

 

i found this, article 'Arrow' Star Stephen Amell Reveals His Best On-Screen Kiss. I'm glad TMNT is making him do some press stuff that he normally wouldn't do.

 

Here's one image from the article, he is handsome, but not sure about that jacket.

 

 

1280_stephen_amell_mtv_movie_awards_2016

 

from the 2nd twitter link

 

CfpUP1jVIAAxMZ2.jpg

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There are a lot of good photos out but he definitely doesn't seem 100% comfortable, aside from the cuffs &velvet-ness of the jacket (which just just make me want to pat him), I like the whole look.

 

This tumblr account has some good pics, including below

 

tumblr_o5eaxfYFfW1utq3h1o7_540.jpg

 

tumblr_o5eaxfYFfW1utq3h1o5_540.jpg

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Hair looks good, he even kind of looks a bit younger (guessing makeup). Not thrilled with the outfit but that's not a big deal

Could be rest, too. I think they tend to get pretty tired towards the end of the season, and he seems particularly inclined to burn the candle at both ends with all his travel and conventions. A mistake, IMO, but then I'm not trying to build an empire.

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