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The Starling City Times: News and Media about Arrow

Grammaeryn

By Grammaeryn
in Arrow

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Morrigan2575
Morrigan2575

I always find it odd when people blame the writing for LLs failure. I'll give them that for Lauiver because of the whole cheating thing but, let's be honest if SA/KC had the chemistry that SA/EBR had,

lemotomato
lemotomato

Sorry, that argument rings really hollow when the show has had a history of killing off/mistreating other female characters without a peep of protest from those same "concerned" people. Moira Queen, S

ComicFan777
ComicFan777

I know that this is supposed to be Felicity's dark arc, but...Felicity desperately doing whatever she can to save people (damn the consequences down the road) doesn't make me think that she's losing w

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NumberCruncher

NumberCruncher

Here's a different link to the same Dec. 16, 2015 podcast.  AK was referring to Greg Berlanti's first time crying over a comic book (when Barry died in Crisis): "It was the first time he realized that comic books were basically just soap operas for boys."

I'll go a step further than that--comic books are basically fan fic for boys too (since I often see that used as a derogatory and/or sexist term to put down the show). I don't know what the big deal is if the producers do believe that the show has soap opera/fan fic elements--especially since there are plenty examples of some damn good storylines in both of those mediums.

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lemotomato

lemotomato

Charlie Schneider does youtube videos for Arrow. I enjoy them even though he's wrong 99% of the time when it comes to speculation. That's because his speculation usually is based on what happened in the comics. 

 

And according to him Black Canary can't die because Family Guy never killed Brian. Seems legit 

 

https://twitter.com/AwesomEmergency/status/706253332097028096

Now I'm curious about what predictions he made previously. But I'm too lazy to watch his videos and I feel like I've already had to put up with too many comic purists this week.

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Angel12d

Angel12d

(edited)

Charlie Schneider does youtube videos for Arrow. I enjoy them even though he's wrong 99% of the time when it comes to speculation. That's because his speculation usually is based on what happened in the comics. 

 

And according to him Black Canary can't die because Family Guy never killed Brian. Seems legit 

 

https://twitter.com/AwesomEmergency/status/706253332097028096

 

LOL. I mean, even though I'm not a fan of LL/BC I always thought they wouldn't kill off Laurel simply because of the comics. So that's a normal assumption, I guess. But I'm not sure if comparing her to Brian from Family Guy is the right way to argue his case. There's just no comparison? WTF. LOL. I needed a laugh.

Edited by Angel12d
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wonderwall

wonderwall

LOL. I mean, even though I'm not a fan of LL/BC I always thought they wouldn't kill off Laurel simply because of the comics. So that's a normal assumption, I guess. But I'm not sure if comparing her to Brian from Family Guy is the right way to argue his case. There's just no comparison? WTF. LOL. I needed a laugh.

 

You know people are reaching when they compare Laurel to a cartoon dog. It's pretty much an insult lol

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Sakura12

Sakura12

I used to watch his videos too, but his predictions were so far off (and he keeps making them) that I just gave up watching him. I don't understand his argument, comparing Laurel to a cartoon dog. People actually like Brian and he's a cartoon.

 

The Laurel dying spec has sure gotten around to everyone. Even John Campea was celebrating and he usually avoids spoilers. 

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wonderwall

wonderwall

Charlie made a video to go along with it. I find it funny because in the video he states:

  • Laurel's not in the grave because she's been growing stronger the past few episodes
  • Quentin is in the grave or Donna
  • Olicity is dead
  • Because Laurel isn't in the grave and Olicity is dead and that Laurel is becoming 'stronger', S5 will be more like the comics. Which I'm guessing means that the show is building back to Lauriver

Ahhh I can't wait till 4x18 :')

 

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wonderwall

wonderwall

You have to admire his unflagging enthusiasm despite being so very, very wrong so many, many times, LOL!

 

I just had to unfollow him on twitter :p He's been really snippy in regards to Olicity (and he definitely seemed happy that Olicity was dead in that video) and I don't like to see that on my timeline :p

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lemotomato

lemotomato

(edited)

Charlie made a video to go along with it. I find it funny because in the video he states:

  • Laurel's not in the grave because she's been growing stronger the past few episodes
  • Quentin is in the grave or Donna
  • Olicity is dead
  • Because Laurel isn't in the grave and Olicity is dead and that Laurel is becoming 'stronger', S5 will be more like the comics. Which I'm guessing means that the show is building back to Lauriver

Ahhh I can't wait till 4x18 :')

You forgot to mention his crowning "proof" that the death is Lance-- he's old. According to him, the only characters that were killed off and not brought back like Sara, were older, like Moira. He's sure the show would not permanently kill off any of its younger cast, conveniently ignoring Tommy.

 

I swear, why is it so hard to find a reviewer with a comics background that actually sounds like they watch the show and aren't just pulling random stuff out of their ass? Was John Campea the only one?

Edited by lemotomato
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SmallScreenDiva

SmallScreenDiva

I just had to unfollow him on twitter :p He's been really snippy in regards to Olicity (and he definitely seemed happy that Olicity was dead in that video) and I don't like to see that on my timeline :p

 

I follow very few people on Twitter. I usually follow only people I've actually interacted with, like you lovely posters on this board. Makes the experience so much better :) 

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SmallScreenDiva

SmallScreenDiva

You forgot to mention his crowning "proof" that the death is Lance-- he's old. According to him, the only characters that were killed off and not brought back like Sara, were older, like Moira. He's sure the show would not permanently kill off any of its younger cast, conveniently ignoring Tommy.

 

I swear, why is it so hard to find a reviewer with a comics background that actually sounds like they watch the show and aren't just pulling random stuff out of their ass? Was John Campea the only one?

 

I'm really hoping the big death would bring John Campea and his show back (but leave behind his wife and Kaori since they are both ridiculous, IMO). I may not have agreed with some of his opinions but at least he knew what he was talking about comics wise AND he understood how TV shows tell their stories.

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Ann Mack

Ann Mack

Well that was 8:58 minutes of a bunch of nothing. Seriously, some of these comic book loving watchers/talkers has to at some point realize this version of Arrow may NOT be willing to commit to the comic book standard story that is or has been told. I mean really "by season 5 they will be building more toward the comic book" is his justification as to why the show will destroy or dismantle "Olicity"? Right now they are the main reason the show gets buzz. So I guess that's his way of saying they can't kill Laurel because in the comics she is with Oliver. Again, I think on more than one occasion the show has shown they really don't care too much about putting the Green Arrow and Black Canary together. Oh well that grave reveal is going to either have folks celebrating (Laurel is dead), confused and pissed (Laurel is alive) or just straight up questioning WTF the show is doing  (if it isn't Laurel). But in regards to this guy if your job is having a show that does somewhat detailed discussions or whatever that was of Arrow I would hope your preparation and reasoning extends beyond "because comics"!

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

Ooooh, the dude with the 100% rate in wrong predictions thinks Laurel can't die. I approve of this.

I remember when he predicted that Felicity was going to move to the Flash in S1. I would love to see his track record because he's got to be well over 90% wrong
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Sakura12

Sakura12

(edited)

A show that hasn't followed the comics in 4 years is suddenly going to follow the comics? Yep that's logical. 

 

I don't remember people making that big of fuss that Green Arrow didn't end up with Black Canary on Smallville. Why does Arrow have to follow one of the comic storylines, the other being where Green Arrow and Black Canary are not together. Still don't understand why anyone would want them to be together on this show. 

Edited by Sakura12
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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

A show that hasn't followed the comics in 4 years is suddenly going to follow the comics? Yep that's logical. 

 

. I don't remember people making that big of fuss that Green Arrow didn't end up with Black Canary on Smallville. Why does Arrow have to follow one of the comic storylines, the other being where Green Arrow and Black Canary are not together. Still don't understand why anyone would want them to be together on this show. 

I had an argument about this once. The reviewer used Smallville ending with Lois/Clark as evidence that Arrow would end with Laurel/Oliver. I had to ask, um, you do know that on Smallville Oliver Queen didn't even, afaik, DATE Dinah Laurel Lance...yes? In fact he ended up married to the blonde tech nerd girl?

 

The reviewer did not enjoy my comments.

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Sakura12

Sakura12

(edited)

A paper book is not an excuse to want a man that cheated on someone multiple times getting one pregnant and another being her sister to be together.  I wouldn't wish that on anyone. Even Laurel. 

Edited by Sakura12
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lemotomato

lemotomato

(edited)

A show that hasn't followed the comics in 4 years is suddenly going to follow the comics? Yep that's logical. 

 

. I don't remember people making that big of fuss that Green Arrow didn't end up with Black Canary on Smallville. Why does Arrow have to follow one of the comic storylines, the other being where Green Arrow and Black Canary are not together. Still don't understand why anyone would want them to be together on this show. 

I've asked that many many times, and I've never gotten an answer that didn't boil down to "because comics" or "because such and such happened on season 1". As if lots of things that happened in season 1 weren't superseded in later seasons, like how Thea and Tommy were related, and Sara wasn't actually dead dead dead. But Oliver telling Laurel she knew him better than anyone else? That's carved in stone.

Edited by lemotomato
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SleepDeprived

SleepDeprived

I really can't wait until the grave reveal just so I can watch all the podcasts and read all the reviews/articles from sites I've avoided before. I feel like, if it all goes according to the popular spec, I might be in for a really good time come April. :)

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Chaser

Chaser

I wasn't heavily into the Smallville fandom, but I don't remember a vocal Because Comic section. Maybe it was because Clark and Lana were the show's pairing for the first 5/6 seasons (with the occasional Chlark tease) and they didn't really go with Clark and Lois until after KK left.

Maybe Chlollie was accepted because BC was never a real presence on the show.

KC also brought her own fanbase to Arrow. Idk. It's annoying though.

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TwistedandBored

TwistedandBored

(edited)

I really can't wait until the grave reveal just so I can watch all the podcasts and read all the reviews/articles from sites I've avoided before. I feel like, if it all goes according to the popular spec, I might be in for a really good time come April. :)

 

I did that twice and it was amazing. I sometimes wondered if they know video footages last for a long time. lol

 

 

ETA: I just wanted to say, Smallville didn't have Lois be on the show from the very first episode. Clark didn't cheat on her with her sister and other women. Also, Clark didn't treat Lois the same way Oliver treated Laurel. The two situations are completely different and are not even comparable. Add to the fact one is an iconic couple and the other toxic on again/off again couple. 

Edited by TwistedandBored
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calliope1975

calliope1975

A show that hasn't followed the comics in 4 years is suddenly going to follow the comics? Yep that's logical. 

 

Oliver Queen was created in 1941. So...which comics are we going by here? There have been a lot. If I want to experience the source material, I'd read the comics. When I watch an adaptation, I want the essence of the character kept. Sure, I love fun Easter eggs as much as the next comic fangirl, but I'd rather someone get the essence of Deadpool, or Wolverine, or Batman, or The Joker right. The rest of the story is a fun whipped topping with sprinkles. I can enjoy the universe without having The Killing Joke translated verbatim. 

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Primal Slayer

Primal Slayer

I wasn't heavily into the Smallville fandom, but I don't remember a vocal Because Comic section. Maybe it was because Clark and Lana were the show's pairing for the first 5/6 seasons (with the occasional Chlark tease) and they didn't really go with Clark and Lois until after KK left.

Maybe Chlollie was accepted because BC was never a real presence on the show.

KC also brought her own fanbase to Arrow. Idk. It's annoying though.

 

Smallville was a bit different since they didn't introduce his huge love interest at the beginning of the series, and he wasn't even Superman yet but once Lois came, there were plenty that were vocal about having them hook up but that fandom was divided on a lot things. There was the whole Chloe was the real Lois and that Lois was going to die and Chloe take her place, there was controversy over Kara having all of her powers before Clark. Basically it just seemed to be a lot more spread out.

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SmallScreenDiva

SmallScreenDiva

(edited)

I'm 1 minute and 13 seconds in in the Emergency Awesome video about the grave and I think he's already got something wrong. Charlie is talking about Quentin's hair and when he became bald and said they must not have liked the wig Q used. But I think Paul Blackthorne actually sported his real hair for two seasons and went with the bald/close cropped look after season 2, during the hiatus, and then just kept it. Right? I don't think he was using a wig then. 

Edited by SmallScreenDiva
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Chaser

Chaser

I'm assuming the explosion that 'killed' Ray at the end of S3.

Pretty sure you are right about Quentin's hair SmallScreenDiva.

I've yet to find a podcast that gets the details right on Arrow. It's a pet peeve of mine. If you are going to watch the show, watch it. Pay attention. Stop applying everything comics to the show.

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statsgirl

statsgirl

(edited)

I think it was a case of Paul Blackthorne shaved his head after season 2 and the EPs liked it and told him to keep it.

 

I completely forgot that Ray was supposed to have died. You can tell how important he is to me.

 

While I'm all for dancing at the rude awakenings, I'm also bracing myself for hearing how Felicity killed the show 

Charlie Schneider ‏@AwesomEmergency 5h5 hours ago

Charlie Schneider Retweeted •• Tim ••

You don't think Oliver & Felicity braiding each other's hair, riding horseback down the beach is a good show?!

Charlie Schneider added,
•• Tim •• @TMPCTD
@d3xm96 @AwesomEmergency When it happens, youll see how bad Arrow will get after that. Full on Olicity romance plots & no story, just watch

As opposed to the season 1 Oliver/Laurel/Tommy triangle, right?  There is so much hate for Felicity in those conversations.

Edited by statsgirl
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SmallScreenDiva

SmallScreenDiva

(edited)

I'm assuming the explosion that 'killed' Ray at the end of S3.

Pretty sure you are right about Quentin's hair SmallScreenDiva.

I've yet to find a podcast that gets the details right on Arrow. It's a pet peeve of mine. If you are going to watch the show, watch it. Pay attention. Stop applying everything comics to the show.

 

It's a pet peeve of mine, too. Not just podcasts but reviewers and recappers get details wrong all the time and it drives me nuts. I had to stop watching that video. Got the hair wrong, Ray's grave wrong, and wondered about whether Darhk knew about Quentin in the first 3 minutes. Wasn't that the whole point of the falling building? Malcolm confirmed Lance's betrayal to Darhk. Sigh.

Edited by SmallScreenDiva
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looptab

looptab

(edited)

It's a pet peeve of mine, too. Not just podcasts but reviewers and recappers get details wrong all the time and it drives me nuts. I had to stop watching that video. Got the hair wrong, Ray's grave wrong, and wondered about whether Darhk knew about Quentin. Wasn't that the whole point of the falling building? Malcolm confirmed Lance's betrayal to Darhk. Sigh.

Me three. And it's not even about the off speculations, but, if you take the time to make videos for it and talk about it publicly you should at least be accurate.

I think it was a case of Paul Blackthorne shaved his head after season 2 and the EPs liked it and told him to keep it.

I completely forgot that Ray was supposed to have died. You can tell how important he is to me.

While I'm all for dancing at the rude awakenings, I'm also bracing myself for hearing how Felicity killed the show

As opposed to the season 1 Oliver/Laurel/Tommy triangle, right? There is so much hate for Felicity in those conversations.

When I read these arguments my only conclusion is that people must have forgotten how awful that was, or how much they used to complain about it. Edited by looptab
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thegirlsleuth

thegirlsleuth

It's interesting to see how many commentators on the Awesome Emergency video are sure its Felicity's mom.  Do they really think that Felicity is going to wait in the limo to give Oliver a few minutes alone at her mother's grave?

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kismet

kismet

I've asked that many many times, and I've never gotten an answer that didn't boil down to "because comics" or "because such and such happened on season 1". As if lots of things that happened in season 1 weren't superseded in later seasons, like how Thea and Tommy were related, and Sara wasn't actually dead dead dead. But Oliver telling Laurel she knew him better than anyone else? That's carved in stone.

Well she did know him in her bones... that does seem pretty fundamental :)

 

I do wonder what April will bring for a lot of these reviewers & recappers.

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

(edited)

Smallville was a bit different since they didn't introduce his huge love interest at the beginning of the series, and he wasn't even Superman yet but once Lois came, there were plenty that were vocal about having them hook up but that fandom was divided on a lot things. There was the whole Chloe was the real Lois and that Lois was going to die and Chloe take her place, there was controversy over Kara having all of her powers before Clark. Basically it just seemed to be a lot more spread out.

Arrow is my Smallville do over. All the stuff I complained about in Smallville, they seem to be amending and going my way in Arrow. My old mantra was "on any other show". Arrow makes me feel retroactively vindicated. Knock on wood. ;)

Edited by BkWurm1
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

I can only quote portions, so you may want to read the entire articles...

 

'Arrow' S04E15: What worked in 'Taken'
Laura Hurley  March 5, 2016 1:33 AM MST
http://www.examiner.com/article/arrow-s04e15-what-worked-taken

Oliver also needed to experience blowback on the personal front. Unfortunately for fans of Olicity, that blowback had to be Oliver and Felicity breaking up. Oliver betrayed Felicity’s trust by lying to her, failed to actually apologize to her for the lying, and showed a lack of trust in her by leaving her out of the decisions he was making that would affect both of them for the rest of their lives. She had to end the engagement and he had to take the hit.
*  *  *
It was nice that Stephen Amell finally woke up in time for his monologue at the end of the episode. That the monologue apparently wore him out to the point that he couldn’t bring much spark to the rest of the scene was unfortunate, but at least Oliver’s tearful message to William proved that Amell hadn’t been replaced by a very handsome cyborg.
*  *  *
Thankfully, Felicity at no point in the episode took any crap from anyone. She pointed out all of the reasons why Oliver keeping his secret was dumb, she refused to absolve Oliver of making the choice to lie, and she didn’t try to make excuses for him. In fact, in her refusal to enable him or compromise herself, she proved why she has been the healthiest romantic match for the hero of the series. Felicity unfortunately didn’t get the chance to vocalize her point-of-view a la Thea with her smackdown of Malcolm or Laurel with her chat with Quentin, but Emily Bett Rickards did instill a sense of simmering frustration into Felicity’s actions, and her nuance earns her the MVP for “Taken.”

 

'Arrow' S04E15: What didn't work in 'Taken'
Laura Hurley  March 5, 2016 2:33 PM MST
http://www.examiner.com/article/arrow-s04e15-what-didn-t-work-taken

Oliver didn’t catch nearly enough flak for getting everybody into the mess of Damien Darhk kidnapping his secret kid. There were obviously more important things going on than anybody taking a break to pile on Oliver, but nobody aside from Felicity seemed all that critical of him. Samantha was only really upset about Oliver’s failures to get William back. Oliver needed to be held accountable, and he wasn’t.
*  *  *
Oliver wasn’t helped by the fact that he never apologized to Felicity. Even a slightly backhanded “I’m sorry that I had to lie to you” would have been better than flat-out avoiding having a real conversation with her for the entire hour. He didn’t have to sell it as genuine, but he did need to say something to apologize. The show may be set on the idea that Oliver had no choice but to side with Samantha and lie to Felicity, but Oliver did still lie, and he should have said that he was sorry.
*  *  *
Oliver is a better man than he’s been written recently, and the show hasn’t been as much fun when the hero hasn’t been somebody to root for. Arrow went too far in prioritizing the baby mama plot over Oliver’s characterization, and Season 4 has suffered for it. Hopefully, his development will be back on track now that the baby mama drama is over.
*  *  *
For perhaps the first time ever, Stephen Amell has made it into the “What didn’t work” portion of these reviews. To his credit, his performance in the final scene in which he said goodbye to William and was then too drained to react to Felicity was masterful…but it wasn’t earned by everything that had happened before. Amell didn’t bring the urgency to Oliver that was necessary to justify his emotional exhaustion. For most of the episode, he seemed more inconvenienced and irritated by the kidnapping than particularly invested. Shouting “My son!” a few times isn’t enough to sell urgency, and so what should have been a great scene at the end fell flat. It just didn’t match everything that came before in the episode.
Edited by tv echo
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