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The Starling City Times: News and Media about Arrow


Grammaeryn
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I hope that was a mutual decision cause that sucks for KL.

Yeah, if it gives me more Nyssa, then good. But that's a bummer for Katrina, but I also don't think Tremaine is the most competent actress, especially compared to Katrina. So, might suck for the show I had no interest in watching as well.

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I also think they trotted out EBR instead of SA because I think SA would have refused to go or talk about this storyline. They are both protective of olicity but I don't think EBR minds if they trade it in for a little melodrama. That is the impression her other interviews have given me. I don't think SA likes the melodrama.

Plus this storyline is really making his character look bad. Even if the writers try to pin some of the fallout on FS. The majority of the audience & critics have already taken her side or mentioned just how poorly crafted this storyline is. Although it would have been fun to see SA squirm his way through interviews to sell the company line, I'm sorta glad I didn't have to witness it yet. This storyline must hurt him on so many levels.

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Judging by his social media, SA is way more excited about his appearance in LoT than 415. He hasn't even really mentioned or retweeted the CW's posts about Vixen. It's an interesting contrast to how excited he was about the Constatine episode.

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Judging by his social media, SA is way more excited about his appearance in LoT than 415. He hasn't even really mentioned or retweeted the CW's posts about Vixen. It's an interesting contrast to how excited he was about the Constatine episode.

He'll make another passive aggressive comment post-episode. :/
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Thx for the heads up on SA interviews. I hope he throws MG & co under the bus. How he was looking fwd to showing OQ as a father, but time constraints did not allow that or the writers had other priorities. Personally I would have no problem if he talked solely about LoT. It sucks that they are bringing in Vixen in this episode cuz it does her a disjustice. At least Constantine made sense to fix the writers mistakes before. Vixen should not be used to fix the writers errors this time. And why should SA be forced to promote another character if he doesn't want to. It's bad enough has to sell the crap the writers are writing on the show, it's not his job to explain away their tactical errors in character introductions.

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So SA reiterated that the kid storyline is his favorite ever on the show. The lying is like 90% of the storyline so far, so that would mean he's fine with the lying. I know he makes unhappy faces at cons, which is with fans, but he seems to tell a very different story to interviewers. Like pick a lane, dude. If you don't love it, it's fine that you can't say so, but don't say it's your fricking favorite ever.

I hope he throws MG & co under the bus.

He literally said it's "probably [his] favorite storyline, for a variety of reasons."

Edited by AyChihuahua
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What I really wanna know is where the hell did he get this idea that TV shows don't plant seeds for storylines over multiple seasons only to pick up the thread at a later date. Did he completely skip every sci-fi/genre show ever from the past, oh, I don't know, 40? 50 years?

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What I really wanna know is where the hell did he get this idea that TV shows don't plant seeds for storylines over multiple seasons only to pick up the thread at a later date. Did he completely skip every sci-fi/genre show ever from the past, oh, I don't know, 40? 50 years?

Nothing he said in that interview made him sound particularly smart, or at all insightful. Also, weirdly stubborn. He seems very Guggie-ish in that way. "Oh, you don't like it...well here's MORE, and Imma repeat that it's my FAVE EVER."

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My first thought was Buffy: The Vampire Slayer.

What now? You mean the show that teased the First Evil in S3 and then had the First Evil as the main villain in S7? Nah! 

 

Or that had dreamFaith tell Felicity "Little Miss Muffet, counting down from 730" at the end of S3, and then had Buffy die 730 days later? Nah!

 

Or that had Xander in a one-off become a soldier, which was then used as a plot point for why he had soldier knowledge in a couple other episodes? (And even referenced it a final time when he said he was forgetting that soldier knowledge?) Nah!

 

Seriously, he either barely watches tv or doesn't pay any attention to it. Which is fine, but then maybe he should not say his show is the first to do something that many other shows have done 10000000x better.

Edited by AyChihuahua
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So SA reiterated that the kid storyline is his favorite ever on the show. The lying is like 90% of the storyline so far, so that would mean he's fine with the lying. I know he makes unhappy faces at cons, which is with fans, but he seems to tell a very different story to interviewers. Like pick a lane, dude. If you don't love it, it's fine that you can't say so, but don't say it's your fricking favorite ever.

He literally said it's "probably [his] favorite storyline, for a variety of reasons."

This bothered me as well. Because I do believe it is his favorite storyline - if only for the dumb reason of being able to access his protective father-rage - so  I won't believe anything he said/will say about it elsewhere.

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My first thought was Buffy: The Vampire Slayer.

 

My first thought was Farscape Stargate StarTrek Buffy QuantumLeap OtherStarTrek Angel OtherStargate BattlestarGalactica Sliders LosInSpace YetAnotherStarTrek WestWing* DoctorWho OtherBattlestarGalactica LOST OH-MY-GOD-EVEN-SMALLVILLE-DID-IT.

 

But yeah.

 

* WestWing is a democratic utopian alternate universe, hence: sci-fi.

 

edit: I FORGOT THE X-FILES. LIKE. HAHAHAHA. EVERYTHING ON THAT FUCKING SHOW WAS A DANGLING THREAD FROM PREVIOUS SEASONS. LOL.

Edited by dtissagirl
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This bothered me as well. Because I do believe it is his favorite storyline - if only for the dumb reason of being able to access his protective father-rage - so  I won't believe anything he said/will say about it elsewhere.

Other than yelling "MY SON" a lot, how does it differ from protective brother rage we've seen 1000 times, protective son rage we've seen a couple times, protective bestie of MM rage we've seen a couple times, protective whatever/bf/fiance of Felicity rage we've seen quite a few times, protective other bestie of one of MM's murder victims Tommy rage we've see, or protective ONE TRUE LOVE of Laurel rage that was most of S1A.

 

Dumb forever.

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The irony is that if they had shown a couple of scenes of Oliver going to Central City and interacting with the kid -- so that the audience could connect with the kid --  yelling "MY SON" a lot would make more sense.

 

They want me to care for William, I need to see William. And hey, I don't actually wanna see William ever, but that's now how an audience connects to a fictional character. Even if the story here is about whatever innate paternal instincts Oliver has, it doesn't translate in a narrative unless it's WRITTEN.

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No one wanted to see the Oliver with his son scenes so they didn't show them.

 

But I do agree how is the show going to "show" that child parent love is different? I believe that there is this other thing you feel when you know this child-this little person is someone you need to protect. You would do anything for this little person. And it is different then other loves. But the show already did this story line last season with Thea. And this season they already had Felicity tell Oliver to look for another way with Dark-though that was about going undercover in HIVE. 

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I'm so glad that I have sworn off reading any articles or giving Arrow any sm/online attention until this crappy storytelling is over. I will not feed the monster of stupidity. Perhaps if you guys bring a good article to my attention, if not it's media silent on my end. 

 

It's probably his favorite storyline ever because he had a hand in bringing it to the screen. If there is any guarantee its that SA's ego is probably far bigger than his brains. His brain is hopefully telling him this is dumb. But his ego is telling him, I gave them an idea and they ran with it. Couple that with his fatherly pride/rage/over-protectiveness and its no wonder this is the best story ever. Ego & Pride generally always win out over Brains.

 

Honestly, there is nothing about this storyline that ARROW has done better than any show and that's lowering the bar to even include crappy shows. It's not fair to compare it to just the greats, this storyline wouldn't even pass in crappy level of shows. Perhaps they'll surprise me and make something good out of what remains, but I doubt it. Any who it is what it is...¯\_(ツ)_/¯ It will be over soon and at least it's nearly reached laughing at level for me.

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Other than yelling "MY SON" a lot, how does it differ from protective brother rage we've seen 1000 times, protective son rage we've seen a couple times, protective bestie of MM rage we've seen a couple times, protective whatever/bf/fiance of Felicity rage we've seen quite a few times, protective other bestie of one of MM's murder victims Tommy rage we've see, or protective ONE TRUE LOVE of Laurel rage that was most of S1A.

 

Dumb forever.

Hee, we're about to find out!

 

I think the structure of the season and the limits of Sweeps are especially hard for them, because they suck at planning. THey had to have the midseason cliffhanger, and the following episodes had to necessarily deal with the aftermath of that. Otherwise, with better planning, the story could have had more breathing room - if they had allowed it, and hadn't crammed so many storylines  in the span of 4 episodes.

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Seriously, he other barely watches tv or doesn't pay any attention to it. Which is fine, but then maybe he should not say his show is the first to do something that many other shows have done 10000000x better.

I understand that this is SA's show and it's his job to sell the storylines he's given to work with, but let's face it: the only thing Arrow has done that sets it apart from other shows is how quickly it realized L/O was a dead end and switched the main/endgame relationship to the couple that made sense and had actual chemistry.

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This is a great article...

 

One ‘Ship to Rule Them All: Oliver and Felicity From ‘Arrow
By: Billy Arrowsmith  February 19, 2016
http://fandom.wikia.com/articles/one-ship-to-rule-them-all-oliver-and-felicity-from-arrow

... Olicity has continued to be one of the strongest superhero romances in live-action today, never once wavering in its intensity (unless you count mind control or alternate timelines, obviously)...
*  *  *
TANGENT WARNING: Because it’s my article, and dammit this is America… Honestly, I don’t think Felicity gets enough credit for being the true lynchpin of the Arrowverse. “Arrow” may be the title, but Felicity is the most important character. Without her, the show does not work. Arrow was a boring mess of a show before Felicity, and it started to work because she made it fun. The snark and grounded attitude that allowed her to call the more serious characters out on their ridiculousness is now a template for the best shows DC is making. She’s why we have Cisco Ramon on The Flash, and Winn Schott on Supergirl. You can do Arrow without Oliver Queen… they tried that when he was left for dead by Ra’s al Ghul, but you can’t do Arrow without Felicity!
*  *  *
What makes Olicity so great, and sets them apart from so many other superhero romances, is that they’re true partners. Superhero romance, especially on television, tends to stick to a limited number of cheap drama tropes. The hero has a contrived reason why they can’t let their romantic interest know about their secret identity, usually because it would “put them in danger” for some reason. They’re both in love, but the love interest wants the hero to stop saving lives because it’s “too dangerous.” ...
*  *  *
Oliver and Felicity are so great because they work together and they’re both all-in. Felicity started working with Oliver long before they became a couple, because they both believe in sacrificing themselves to make the world a better place. That’s not to say that either one of them is okay with the other taking needless risks, but they understand that their lives are dangerous and that’s unavoidable. It’s the life they’ve chosen.
*  *  *
Oliver and Felicity are very different people, but the show doesn’t use that as a source for cheap tension. Like a real relationship, their differences are part of what makes them strong. They’re both completely realized adults who have separate interests and draw strength from each other, but aren’t co-dependent. They’re both incredibly supportive and understanding of each other, aware of each other’s flaws, and kindly assertive when they need to address a problem. I’m getting all melty. The point is, Oliver and Felicity deserve to win this tournament because they are an excellent model of how healthy adult relationships can function to make the two people in it even stronger.
Edited by tv echo
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TV Fanatic's round table discussion of 414 - enjoy (I think Jay is expressing MG's viewpoint, but I've noticed that Jay is anti-Felicity anyway)...

 

Arrow Round Table: All Hail the Ladies Smoak!
Modwild Carissa Pavlica at February 22, 2016 11:00 am
http://www.tvfanatic.com/2016/02/arrow-round-table-all-hail-the-ladies-smoak/

What did you think of Thea sussing out Oliver had a son with Samantha named William and then giving him advice?
Jay
: I love Thea. I wish her and Oliver had more moments like this, where we can see that they actually do have a relationship and Oliver does more than call her Speedy and stop her from killing people.
Caralynn: I loved it. So glad they gave Thea something to do other than struggle with bloodlust and make those weird animal-sounds when attacking somebody. The reveal scene between Thea and Oliver was wonderful.
Honestly, though, I still think it's ridiculous that he can't tell just Felicity. It's not like Felicity is a giant gossip who's going to spread William's identity around town. It's very contrived.
Meg: it was meh for me, only because I disagree with her. Any good sister would lay into her brother for keeping that from his fiancé. Thea sort of agreed with Oliver's logic for keeping it a secret. Words out buddy. Fess up!
Carissa: I hated it. I don't think Thea would have told Oliver it was a good idea to keep the secret from Felicity because there isn't a reason to keep it. Nobody would know he told her under any circumstances. It makes no sense in any world, on any earth. Worst secret ever.
*  *  *
We're coming up on Felicity finally learning the truth about William in the worst possible way. How do you expect her to react? Place your bets!

Jay: I really don't know. Oliver did what he had to do to know his son and be in his life. It's not Felicity's place to be angry with him over that, it's Samantha's life and her wishes. Of course she'll be upset, but if this is the catalyst that ends their relationship, I just don't understand where Felicity would be coming from.

Caralynn: For Felicity, a sore spot is Oliver keeping the truth from her. She'll be upset that Oliver didn't confide in her, that's for sure, but I think she'll quell her anger until after Oliver has rescued William. This may be the catalyst to their breakup in the flashforward. It probably is.

Meg: I think we will see a parallel to the Mama Smoak/Lance scene. She will be pissed and that's how they will break up.

Carissa: I agree with Caralynn. And I think Oliver will be too wrapped up to realize just how upset Felicity is. He'll think he's dodged a bullet, but she'll be very angry once the William kidnapping drama is over. At least I hope so. He doesn't deserve to get away with this.

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"It's not Felicity's place to be angry with him over that, it's Samantha's life and her wishes."

I'm can't. I'm done.

ETA: this statement hurts me so much English flies out of the window.

Edited by Password
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Jay is one of the reasons this storyline infuriates me because he's not the only one to think this. Acting like Felicity doesn't deserve to know about William and it's not her place to be mad? Has he ever had a relationship in his life? Probably not.

Ugh the rage. THE RAGE!!! Haha.

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As a rule, stepparents' income is included when determining child support. And Oliver has pretty much no income, so it would be adjusted WAY UP bc of Felicity, and then Felicity would have to PAY IT.

 

Anybody who says a spouse doesn't have the right to know the other spouse has an actual human child is an actual idiot. 

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It's not even that he supports the "Oliver had to lie to be in his son's life" bs, it's that "I don't understand where she would be coming from being upset" that tells me he is the actual target audience for this show.

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I highly recommend reading the entire article and not just the parts quoted...

 

'Arrow' S04E14: What needs to happen next after 'Code of Silence'
Laura Hurley  February 23, 2016 9:46 AM MST
http://www.examiner.com/article/arrow-s04e14-what-needs-to-happen-next-after-code-of-silence

Oliver needs to face consequences for how he’s handled the William situation. He’s been taking the path of least resistance ever since he found out about William, and his lies and omissions and poor judgment need to come back to bite him. He has developed a habit over the years of the series for blaming himself for everything, but this fiasco is his fault, and the narrative needs to treat it as such.
*  *  *

Samantha needs to be held responsible for her part in the fiasco. Oliver may have made the choice to see William and to lie to Felicity about his trips to Central City, but he never would have done so if Samantha hadn’t forced a ridiculous ultimatum on him. Besides, The Flash has shown that Central City gets press about the goings-on in Star City all the time. Samantha should not have let Oliver anywhere near her son. He’s a highly recognizable man who has recently survived an assassination attempt that crippled his fiancée and killed his driver. Oliver had no business being anywhere near his son in these circumstances, and Samantha had no business letting him.
 

Oliver and Felicity need to break up. As painful a truth as that is to type, Oliver and Felicity really do need to end their relationship for the time being. Oliver has betrayed her trust passively with every moment that he didn’t tell her that he was seeing William and actively with every lie that he told in order to go see William. He needs to really understand and feel what he’s done this time around, and losing Felicity is one of the few things that might be able to shock his system enough to make him learn. She doesn’t have to fall out of love with him or throw the ring in his face or wish that something awful would happen to him, but she does need to call off the engagement. Felicity deserves to choose to protect herself rather than try to heal him, and Oliver needs the rude awakening. Breaking up now doesn’t mean staying broken up forever, but both characters need for it to happen.
 

The writing for the culmination of the baby mama drama needs to have nuance. Stephen Amell is really a remarkable actor when he’s given solid material, and it will fall to him to salvage this storyline when the truth comes out. Oliver is not irredeemable for this latest misstep, and Amell is certainly capable of bringing shades to Oliver to invite some emotional empathy to his plight. The baby mama plot to this point has pretty much been a disaster; if the writing is done well for the conclusion, Amell might be able to turn it into a tragedy.

Edited by tv echo
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It's not even that he supports the "Oliver had to lie to be in his son's life" bs, it's that "I don't understand where she would be coming from being upset" that tells me he is the actual target audience for this show.

Anyone who doesn't question that a) Oliver *has* to keep this secret because Samantha said so, and b) believes that continuing to keep it from people Oliver knows would never put his son in danger is "protecting" William are this show's target audience. And sadly, there are a lot of those people.

Edited by apinknightmare
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Anyone who goes around saying "It's not Felicity's place" to know about Oliver's SON has never been in a healthy relationship. She was going to marry him, JFC. What the hell does marriage even mean to these people?

I'm willing to bet if the shoe were on the other foot, and it was Felicity that didn't tell Oliver she had a kid in the past and gave him/her up for adoption and he only finds out when said kid shows up on their doorstep, Jay's reaction would be very different.

Edited by lemotomato
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Plus it's not like he's been a father to that boy. Felicity would practically know the boy just as long as Oliver had if he would have told her to begin with. Such a stupid storyline and SA is being ridiculous for thinking this is his favorite. I like the guy but come on Stephen. You should know better than this!

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Some of the comments after SA's IGN interview are hilarious:

 

Nwokeofe
Feb 23 2016 0PM

I'm just glad they chose an actual African to play Vixen as opposed to an African-American.

solid_snake97
I'd prefer if she was white

Makes it easier for me to connect to her as an audience

someguy489
@solid_snake97 Then in that case I would prefer if she were obese and balding.

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Oh, Jay. Even Downton Abbey didn't think Edith should conceal a secret love child from her prospective husband back in the 1920s. Corpses dragged through halls, Thomas being gay, how many people the Bateses have or haven't murdered, sure, but the secret love child? Absolutely not. 

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They haven't been interacting that much lately... Curious...  :p

 

COME ONNNNNNNNNNNNNN <-- This is me every time I am given even the slightest bit of hope

I keep checking her FB to see if she has changed her header.

 

And no Monday IG pic either. Is it not a happy Monday KC??!!

 

LOL. It's pathetic.

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I keep checking her FB to see if she has changed her header.

 

And no Monday IG pic either. Is it not a happy Monday KC??!!

 

LOL. It's pathetic.

 

We can be pathetic together :)

If they suddenly go into a flurry of "I miss youuuu!" "Come hang out with meeee ::smoochies::" tweets, I'm going to blame you for bringing it up :p

Ruh-roh. I jinxed it O_O

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It's time to kill off a superhero
Superhero shows are way overdue to pull the trigger

BY JAMES HIBBERD, NATALIE ABRAMS

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/02/22/superheroes-death?xid=entertainment-weekly_socialflow_twitter

 

 

“There were brief discussions of: Do we kill Arsenal?” says Arrow boss Marc Guggenheim, whose fourth season opened with a flash-forward scene showing a tombstone for one yet-to-be-revealed character. ”[but it’s not like] we have to go to DC and get permission.”

...

“I don’t believe that superheroes shouldn’t die,” says Guggenheim. “I think it gives stakes to the stories and I think it humanizes them in a necessary way to make you care about these characters. They are living myths, but I like the fact that they’re mortal myths.”

 

COME ONNNNNNNNNNNNNNN


BTW the comment section for that article is delicious. 

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I'm also pretty sure they absolutely have to ask DC before killing comic superheroes. With Sara they probably didn't mind because she didn't have the actual name. And Kate Spencer was a name drop at best.

I'm sure they totally had to ask permission to kill Ra's and Amanda Waller.

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Why would DC care if ARROW kills off a superhero? It frees that superhero to be used in another project. Unless I'm being misled the only money makers for Arrow products are OQ & FS. Those are the only products that are sold out. I'm sure fans of Black Canary will continue to buy her stuff so long as the comics exists. They interchange Arrow's Canary & BC stuff, so they would probably appreciate the ability to have a clear out sale.

It would be interesting to see if Arrow has to pay a licensing fee every season for comic characters, then I could see DC caring who gets killed because it cuts into their profit margin. But if they gave the characters to Arrow, Im sure they trust the writers enough to do what is organic to the story.

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