The Starling City Times: News and Media about Arrow

[BkWurm1]

1 scene over Felicitys majority of existence being fun and light aren't really the same to me. She didn't start the show being bogged down with drama like everyone else.

I like Kara, not really sure on Patty. With Patty, it probably has to do with them outright stating that she is suppose to be like Felicity 2.0 so I just see the writers trying to hard to make her into Police Felicity, it's like Barbie and all her different versions of careers.

Patty though is sooooo very different than Felicity.  Patty is always smiling and happy (at least on the surface).  Felicity is cheery and makes jokes, but she's not walking around with a grin on her face like Patty.  I do like Patty but she tries waay harder than Felicity. 

Edited December 30, 2015 by BkWurm1

[Primal Slayer]

I admit that their initial description of the character gave me a bias to the character, but just the kind of babbling that she goes on, I was burnt out on Felicity-esque clones/knockoffs. 

[lemotomato]

'Arrow' Star Stephen Amell Lands Lush LA Estate

 

a) I had no idea Zillow runs a sideblog and b) That's a really cozy, charming mansion. (I know it's all about staging, but still. It's a really cute house.) 

Edited December 30, 2015 by lemotomato

[dtissagirl]

 If they said they were introducing a Laurel-like character, I would probably want to hate her on principal. 

 

I'm now trying to imagine the pitch meeting for this.

 

Kreisberg: So, we need this new character for an upcoming arc, and we're thinking a fierce justice seeker obstinate woman, with a law enforcement background. We can sell her as "made from the same mold as Dinah Laurel Lance, always trying to save the world".

 

Rando executive: ARE YOU ON DRUGS RIGHT NOW?!

Edited December 30, 2015 by dtissagirl

[Morrigan2575]

I can see some points to the argument. Hollywood and Network/Studio executives aren't super creative types they tend to look for something that works and the replicate it. There's always trends in Hollywood.

There's also the fact that MG once commented that Felicity Smoak is the type of character Berlanti, AJK, and MG are used to and, love to write for.

Since 2 out 3 are involved with the other shows I can easily see them saying hey this worked once and we enjoy writing the type of dialogue/humor this character would envoke, let's make Kara and Patty be like Felicity.

Keep in mind I don't watch Supergirl and have only seen 1 episode with Patty. So I don't know if it's true, just commenting on the possibility.

It's actually not unusual for an EP to find a formula that works and replicate it in multiple shows. Joss Wheden did it in Buffy, Angel and Firefly.

Edited December 30, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[Delphi]

Ok? She has the perk of being the happy character in a show filled with only dramatic characters.

I think she did make them take a double take of "oh hey, we don't need every character to be so emo" but other then that I think they try to ride off of her popularity and it just doesn't work for me.

Okay, so rant warning. But I am getting pretty tired of people saying Felicity's popularity is in result of her being happy because firstly, she's not always happy, babbley and quippy sure, happy no, in four seasons she's not been always happy. Secondly, when she was introduced its not as if Arrow was such a depressing show, nothing had happened yet, there was drama mixed wit Ollie ditching Dig hijinks. And other solid, not depressing, character and action moments. Arrow didn't get really depressing until well after the first stretch of the first season.

What made Felicity popular was the clever writing for her. Effectively making her the audience surrogate. And the fact that Emily is a rather charming and talented actress. It's a trifecta. And I think it's pretty rude for people to dismiss her and say people just like her cause she's not emo.

(Edited to be more polite.)

Edited December 30, 2015 by Delphi

[Chaser]

Okay, so rant warning. But I am getting pretty tired of people saying Felicity's popularity is in result of her being happy because firstly, she's not always happy, babbley and quippy sure, happy no, in four seasons she's not been always happy. Secondly, when she was introduced its not as if Arrow was such a depressing show, nothing had happened yet, there was drama mixed wit Ollie ditching Dig hijinks. And other solid, not depressing, character and action moments. Arrow didn't get really depressing until well after the first stretch of the first season.

What made Felicity popular was the clever writing for her. Effectively making her the audience surrogate. And the fact that Emily is a rather charming and talented actress. It's a trifecta. And its pretty rude of you to dismiss her and say people just like her cause she's not emo.

Thank you. I was going to post something similar yesterday, but life got in the way.

 

Not directed at anyone in particular, just as a general problem I have with Felicity being reduced to "fun" and "quirky."

[way2interested]

It really was just a lightning in a bottle moment for them, and the business always tries to replicate success. Luckily, I think they got the hang of making the initially Felicity-like characters (Barry, Ray, Patty, Kara) characters in their own right once they realized what they have and what they should be writing. Kara's definitely less Felicity than I thought she would be.

[kismet]

I can see some points to the argument. Hollywood and Network/Studio executives aren't super creative types they tend to look for something that works and the replicate it. There's always trends in Hollywood.

There's also the fact that MG once commented that Felicity Smoak is the type of character Berlanti AJK and MG are used to and love to write for.

Since 2 out 3 are involved with the other shows i can easily see them saying hey this worked once and we enjoy writing the type of dialogue/humor this character would envoke, let's make Kara and Patty be lkke Felicity.

Keep in mind i don't watch Supergirl and have only seen 1 episode with Patty. So i don't know if it's true just commenting on the possibility.

It's actually not unusual for an EP to find a formula that works and replicate it in multiple shows. Joss Wheden did it in Buffy, Angel and Firefly.

Good points. TBH, a lot of what I see approachable and resonating with the audience from FS is a lot of the same characteristics Joey Potter had in Dawson's Creek. The hacking supergenius is unique to FS. But her relatable, approachable character that resonates is Joey like, which is why her role grew substantially on DC, like FSs role ison Arrow. By the middle of the shows run people were tuning in for Joey more so than Dawson. Not saying that will happen on Arrow, but not including OQ, I think FS is the character most people tune in to watch. The only major difference is JP started as a main role and FS was a guest bit, so in that regard her growth is exponential. But both Kara & Patty are being cast as mqjor roles so its more a JP situation than a FS situation. The problem is JP is an out of date pop-culture reference. While FS is fresh and new, which Hollywood executives, peopleand writers love to reference. Edited December 30, 2015 by kismet

[Primal Slayer]

Okay, so rant warning. But I am getting pretty tired of people saying Felicity's popularity is in result of her being happy because firstly, she's not always happy, babbley and quippy sure, happy no, in four seasons she's not been always happy. Secondly, when she was introduced its not as if Arrow was such a depressing show, nothing had happened yet, there was drama mixed wit Ollie ditching Dig hijinks. And other solid, not depressing, character and action moments. Arrow didn't get really depressing until well after the first stretch of the first season.

What made Felicity popular was the clever writing for her. Effectively making her the audience surrogate. And the fact that Emily is a rather charming and talented actress. It's a trifecta. And its pretty rude of you to dismiss her and say people just like her cause she's not emo.

She was a dramatically different character from everyone else around her. I never said that EBR didn't factor in, she can play that type well and if she was brought in and had to play a very dramatic Felicity, I don't think the outcome would've been the same. The amount of times Felicity was dramatic in S1-2 compared to others is not that much. In S3 when she was the most dramatic that she had been, there were a lot of reviews that didn't like it, EBR didn't like it, and I saw a lot that called for her to return closer to her quirky funny roots for S4. Now does that mean she can't have dramatic moments or anything besides being funny/quirky? no, does being funny/quirky not make her able to be a strong character? no. But the fact that she was different is what helped make her as popular as she is imo.

Edited December 30, 2015 by Primal Slayer

[FormerMod-a1]

A couple of reminders.

 

1) Stay on topic.  Articles and discussion of articles belong here.  More in-depth discussions of characters, episodes, etc belong elsehwere.

2) Stay civil - don't call each other out, or assign behaviours to each other.  You can disagree with points, but remember to keep it phrased like "I disagree because..."  and not "how can anyone think..." or "how dismissive of you all..."

 

No posts have been deleted, moved or edited at this point, but that will happen in the future if these same issues keep recurring.

[Morrigan2575]

Olicty was #1 on ET's Sexiest Small Screen Couples of 2015

http://www.etonline.com/media/video/the_6_sexiest_tv_couples_of_2015-178703/?viewFull=true

[EmilyBettFan]

EBR said she didn't like that they had Felicity cry that much. She never said she didn't like the dramatic aspects of her character.

[foreverevolving]

'Arrow' Star Stephen Amell Lands Lush LA Estate

 

a) I had no idea Zillow runs a sideblog and b) That's a really cozy, charming mansion. (I know it's all about staging, but still. It's a really cute house.) 

Didn't he buy another house in Santa Barbara at the beginning of the summer?

This house looks really super nice (I would love to live there), had it not I would have wondered if he's buying houses as an investment to renovate and than sale at profit.

[NumberCruncher]

The house Stephen bought earlier this year was in Palm Springs.

[EmeraldArcher]

Didn't he buy another house in Santa Barbara at the beginning of the summer?

This house looks really super nice (I would love to live there), had it not I would have wondered if he's buying houses as an investment to renovate and than sale at profit.

1. Wow, that house is beautiful!

2. The mom in me immediately noted all the needed child-proofing (fireplaces, multiple staircases, etc.) if Mavi is actually going to live there.

3. The Arrow fan in me cringed when I saw the home is located in LAUREL Canyon! Seriously, she is inescapable!

[wonderwall]

3. The Arrow fan in me cringed when I saw the home is located in LAUREL Canyon! Seriously, she is inescapable!

omfg me too lmfaoooooo

[tv echo]

An interesting read. Not sure if I agree fully, but interesting nonetheless. 

 

How Felicity Smoak Set the Stage for Supergirl

http://decider.com/2015/12/29/how-felicity-smoak-set-the-stage-for-supergirl/

 

This reminds me of that Robert Dougherty article, "The TV Superhero Descendants of Felicity Smoak" (Oct. 28, 2015) that was previously posted in this thread.

Edited December 31, 2015 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Laura Hurley update:

I mentioned on Twitter about a week ago that “Arrow: 15 most heartwarming moments of 2015″ was set to go up on Christmas Eve or Christmas. That’s being held until closer to New Year’s, but it will be going up.

http://laurawritesabout.tumblr.com/post/136214052876/a-quick-update

Edited December 31, 2015 by tv echo

[tv echo]

From Laura Hurley's tumblr postings...

 

anonymous asks:
You've mentioned that you don't enjoy the Laurel Lance character and were put off by her since the beginning. My question is, if you were an Arrow writer, how would you write LL? What background history would you have given her, how would you have made her BC? How would you have written her relationship with Oliver?
Dec 29, 2015 6:52 pm
http://laurawritesabout.tumblr.com/post/136216829253/youve-mentioned-that-you-dont-enjoy-the-laurel

 

anonymous asks:
I've not seen many people present Laurel as a gold-digger pre-Gambit, although I think I can see your point. Would you mind explaining your thought process behind this?
Dec 30, 2015 5:27 pm
http://laurawritesabout.tumblr.com/post/136282918961/ive-not-seen-many-people-present-laurel-as-a

Edited December 31, 2015 by tv echo

[Morrigan2575]

Ok seriously does Laura Hurley hang out here? Are we going to find out that one of the pretv posters is secretly Laura Hurley?

[Ceylon5]

...his stupid hair and smarmy smile even sucked all of the handsome out of him.

 

Haha, this cracked me up.

Edited December 31, 2015 by Ceylon5

[bethy]

Oh my word, I love the idea of Laurel as gold-digger. I think that's been my sub-conscious belief for awhile. It fits not only with the fact that Laurel's supposed to be an intelligent, independent woman, but also with KC's kind of cold, condescending mannerisms in her portrayal of the character.

Edited December 31, 2015 by bethy

[tv echo]

For Laurel fans...

 

ARROW: LAUREL LANCE DESERVES BETTER
by JAY RUYMANN  DECEMBER 31, 2015
http://untitledtv.com/arrow-laurel-lance-deserves-better-2/13106

[bijoux]

I was on that train for a while. Then I switched to her motivation being power, not money. My reasoning is that she wasn't so much about Oliver as she was about becoming Moira, the Next Generation. Again, like Laura Hurley, I would respect her more for putting up with Ollie if he was a means to an end.

[Morrigan2575]

Any argument that has to rely on comics to support it, is an automatic fail IMO. Sorry.

[hogwash]

I hate the Laurel is a gold-digger idea. Even with that horrible S03 flashback episode, it doesn't really gel with her work with CNRI or her dismissive attitude towards Oliver and Tommy. Plus, it's gross.

I wish these Laurel defenses would stop comparing what she went through to characters who have literally died. Especially when the deaths of all 3 of the usual comparisons (Oliver, Sara, and Tommy) were used to advance the Laurel character. Stop that.

EDIT: Obviously, there are other reasons Tommy, Oliver, and Sara (eh) died and numerous plots their deaths advanced.

Edited December 31, 2015 by hogwash

[dtissagirl]

Oh geez, that Laurel article gets it wrong in the first sentence.

On behalf of the Black Canary from the comic books, being "the love interest of Oliver Queen" is like the 47th thing you can say about who Dinah is and what she's done, not the very first. The actual problem Arrow created for Laurel was thinking of her as love interest ONLY, and when that didn't work, the character had nothing else going on. Cue 80 episodes of wtfkery.

[SonofaBiscuit]

From the Laurel article:

 

The sister that she lost for six years because she took off on a boat, sneaking around and sleeping with her boyfriend.

 

Geez, is that sentence confusing, or what?  I'm thinking that this was just written by a fan, right?  The article just wasn't as polished as I would expect from a professional writer.  Also, I noticed that I can pick any reaction to the article except for "Hate it."  Hmm...fishy. 

[BkWurm1]

They’ve lacked stories that make her more relatable to the fans, giving any and all to Felicity Smoak. Not even a writing Laurel a simple love story. The writers have taken stories from the comics and twisted them to benefit other characters, like Sara Lance, who didn’t exist in the comics, leaving out Laurel’s crucial involvement.

 

And here's the point where the true feelings of the writer come out.  Apparently it's all Felicity and Sara's fault, lol. 

Edited December 31, 2015 by BkWurm1

[hogwash]

I noticed that too. That piece would've made sense during or after season 2. But not now? After what they did to Sara in S03/S04 and how far Felicity/Oliver has gone?

[AyChihuahua]

And here's the point where the true feelings of the writer come out.  Apparently it's all Felicity and Sara's fault, lol. 

I guess I think that's more or less correct. Not that it's Felicity's or Sara's fault, bc they don't exist, but that the writers gave them Laurel's planned roles in the story. But it's not as if the writers did that for kicks...they gave the action stuff to Sara and the romance/fun stuff to Felicity bc Laurel had failed in both those roles. The writing for Laurel was totally terrible from the very beginning, KC was completely miscast, and had no chemistry with SA, so they gave her original roles to other characters who were working in those roles.

 

Some of these articles are written as if Laurel Lance is a real person, who also deserves better writing? Which is bizarre, because if she were a real person all the bad things about her would be on her, instead of on the writers/actress. It's kind of impossible for a fictional character to deserve better writing, because the writing is the character. I would say KC deserved better writing, but that's is a totally different topic (plus there are still major acting issues that ARE KC's fault, and chemistry issues that aren't anyone's fault but are pretty insoluble).

Edited December 31, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[lemotomato]

Anything written about LL and starts with "In the comics" is inevitably going to take a potshot at Felicity and/or Sara at some point. There must be a template somewhere.

 

Subject matter aside, the article is simply badly written. The author goes into detail about how much plot LL got dedicated to her, declares that she's a well-developed character and is now BC and fighting with GA and Speedy "where she belongs", and then he... complains about how Felicity is given more "relatable" storylines and something something about Sara? What? I have no idea what he thinks LL/BC "deserves". Better fan appreciation? If that's the case, then sorry, buddy. Characters and the actors that play them have to earn the viewers' attention. They don't get fawned over just because of their comic pedigree. 

Edited December 31, 2015 by lemotomato

[dtissagirl]

What's hilarious though, is that it's like the writing of the show breeds this kind of reaction to Laurel if you happen to like her. The show itself caters to this sort of "this is how to fan" all the time, with the "always trying to save the world", and the little kid saying she's so strong, and the refrigerator light line from Felicity. The show is always trying to change the audience's perception of Laurel, rather than writing a better Laurel. Weirdest character I've ever encountered.

[hogwash]

I hate this thinly veiled idea that Felicity and Sara are placeholders for Laurel. As if they can go away now that she has the name and costume. Freaking S03...

[way2interested]

Everyone had they're own bias when writing about Arrow, it seems to me. I've got to actually prepare myself for the kind of respond I expect to get from certain reviewers/writers because I usually already know what they are going to like or dislike. People who have a comic preference will find certain parts that I thought were alright but not great the best parts of the episode (for instance, many "best to TV moments" include this year's crossover as best of 2015, which I would have to politely disagree because of my own preferences for last year's crossover and for more character driven moments for established characters and less flashy mask work). Occasionally, people who love one part of the show will overlook the rest of the show to talk about that section rather than the other parts of the episode (which bothers me both ways, one time I found a review for 223 that completely ignored the "I love you" scene, one time I found a review for 313 that completely ignored Laurel's plot). 

 

So far, I've been able to recognize what I'm going to get in terms of analysis for which reviewer/writer, and I just recognize their own bias and try to find how their own bias may affect their interpretation and how it compares to my own bias/interpretation. It's kind of fun and interesting, really, because a lot of it is really clear from the get-go.

[Ann Mack]

That is one of the worst professionally written articles I have read lately. Beginning with "Laurel Lance: in the comics, she is the love interest of Oliver Queen/Green Arrow and DC Comic hero, Black Canary" automatically made this seem like it was written by someone who thinks Laurel deserves better simply because of the name they have given her in this adaptation of "Arrow", sorry that's not how it works and he should know better. Then this : In the pilot, Laurel was seen as a well-balanced attorney, dating Oliver’s best friend, Tommy, and she was happy… for five minutes. When Oliver came back, his return made Laurel revisit painful memories of the past and her sister’s death and season two saw her struggling to deal with the feelings she had, drowning her sorrows in booze and pills.: which apparently he thought should have equaled this "This story should have brought on tremendous empathy for this character who could not handle the turn of events in her life:" well maybe if this was acted in a way which made fans feel for her and not cringe when she appeared on screen trying to emote then maybe she would have received sympathy and empathy instead of fans wanting her to just go away! To me it seems apparent that the writer of this article is a big comic book (Black Canary) or Katie Cassidy fan and just can't come to grips with the fact that she is not the leading lady material or comic book hero material the show-runners/writers initially thought she might be.

 

Blaming Felicity or Sara for Laurel failings just makes it even more evident that he has no love for those 2 as he think they stole or were given things that belonged to Laurel. Instead of realizing the writers made the decision to basically hand Sara the items and outfit which should have gone to Laurel therefore solidifying that at this time and point of the season they did not think Laurel was ready to handle. I still don't think Laurel pulls it off well and that these same writers have diluted Oliver's fighting skills to make it seem like this BC is capable of being his equal when SHE IS NOT IMO! As far as love interest they screwed that pooch from the beginning with the whole sister swapping mess. Besides that Laurel and Oliver had no chemistry were as it just came naturally between Oliver and Felicity. I do not think the show would be getting as much buzz as it does now if they would have kept Laurel as the main love interest. Any who writers do have their biases as well as the audience I however can give no thumbs up, praise or high marks to that ridiculously article from my perspective as a fan of the show or of Oliver and Felicity.

Edited December 31, 2015 by Ann Mack

[Sakura12]

Top 6 Actresses Who Slay on Screen and in Real Life

http://ppcorn.com/us/2015/12/25/6-actresses-real-life-bamfs/

 

Katrina Law and Caity Lotz made their list. 

 

Number Five: Katrina Law as Nyssa Al-Ghul (Arrow). Katrina Law, also known for her role as Mira in Spartacus, plays the morally ambiguous Nyssa Al-Ghul in The CW’s Arrow. Nyssa Al-Ghul is the daughter of Ra’s Al-Ghul, the ex-lover of Sara Lance, and the almost-bride of Oliver ‘Al Sah-him’ Queen. Unlike most of her co-actors, Law is an actual archer in the art of the bow and arrow. This fact, added with her black belt in taekwondo, leads to Law doing almost all of her stunts herself.

 

Number Four: Caity Lotz as Canary (Arrow) and White Canary (Legends of Tomorrow). The actress behind Sara Lance may not be a black belt, but she’s been trained in so many forms of martial arts that she may as well be one. Caity Lotz is a practitioner of Parkour and Tricking. More than that, however, Lotz is also disciplined in various forms of martial arts. She has training in Muay Thai, Wushu, Taekwondo, and a Yellow belt in Filipino martial arts under the guidance of the legendary Dan Inosanto.

 

Except for CL they are all Asian. We don't want to be stereotyped as ninjas, but we all take Marital Arts. Lol.

[bijoux]

Then this : In the pilot, Laurel was seen as a well-balanced attorney, dating Oliver’s best friend, Tommy, and she was happy… for five minutes. When Oliver came back, his return made Laurel revisit painful memories of the past and her sister’s death

Wasn't Laurel an acknowledged workaholic who didn't really have a life beyond her job (and picking up her dad from bars, although I'm not sure whether that part was in the pilot). She most certainly was not dating Tommy in the pilot. Why aren't these pretty basic facts correct?

[Morrigan2575]

Lance wasn't drinking in the pilot or S1 (that i can recall). His drinking issues took place in the 5 years that Oliver/Sara were "dead".

Edited December 31, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[bijoux]

Thanks for clearing that up.

[tv echo]

Replying in the Laurel thread.

[tv echo]

This is kinda funny...

 

What would the Arrow characters' New Year's resolutions be?
Published 16 hours ago by Oliver C.
http://www.melty.com/what-would-the-arrow-characters-new-year-s-resolutions-be-a2891.html

[kismet]

For Laurel fans...

 

ARROW: LAUREL LANCE DESERVES BETTER

by JAY RUYMANN  DECEMBER 31, 2015

http://untitledtv.com/arrow-laurel-lance-deserves-better-2/13106

I don't necessarily agree with the majority of his arguments, explanations or reasonings... But I will say this LL does deserve better, her character has been written badly for about 3.5 seasons now. The only season her character got a decent amount of attention from a writing perspective was in s1a and perhaps some in s1b. Other than that her story and character have been an absolute mess and bringing the show down. Most of her other stuff is all an afterthought or completely mishandled from the writing, acting & directing depts. We might want better for her for different reasons. But the way I see it, if I'm gonna be stuck with a character on my show for whatever dumb reason, I just want that character to be a good or at least a better character. I'm ready to cut my losses and just let the character go, but its likely we are not that fortunate as an audience. :( Still hope springs eternal that this may be the year LL/BC finally departs SC.

[tangerine95]

I never get that argument of Laurel deserves better or Sara and Felicity are the reason she isn't getting it.Laurel is a failed character and its actually really strange she's still on the show imo considering the response they get to whatever they try to do with her.I don't think its smart to push a character that for whatever reason isn't working for a lot of people and the best thing they could have done other than write her out in season 1,is reduce her role as much as they did and replace her as LI.I know I wouldn't be watching the show if that didn't happen.

Edited January 1, 2016 by tangerine95

[Chaser]

Laurel Lance doesn't deserve better. Arrow deserves better than Laurel Lance.

[Primal Slayer]

Laurel Lance deserves to be great, give her better material writers, MAKE.IT.HAPPEN. 

[dtissagirl]

We deserve better than Laurel Lance,

[tv echo]

Another Laurel Hurley tumblr post (following up on above Laurel articles)...

 

theyarerealtome asks:
100% on board with your goldigger!Laurel. I've always wondered why the middle class Laurel hung out with Starling's billionaires, but with Laurel's driven personality, I can absolutely imagine her pushing to go to the Queen's private school (scholarship, rich grandparents, parent's scrimping?) and climbing up into Starling's elite. It would also add layers to Moira's approval of Oliver/Laurel, maybe she could see some of her ambitious, ruthless self in Laurel, despite her "do-gooder" appearance.
Jan 1, 2016 2:48 pm
http://laurawritesabout.tumblr.com/post/136403078426/100-on-board-with-your-goldiggerlaurel-ive

[tv echo]

New Year’s resolutions for 12 of TV’s biggest screwups
BY KAYLA HAWKINS AT 04:01 PM ON JAN 1, 2016
http://zap2it.com/2016/01/new-years-resolutions-for-tv-characters-2016/

Here’s a list of TV’s most self-destructive characters who might want to try their best to get it together in the next calendar year.
*  *  *
Oliver Queen, ‘Arrow’
Oliver needs to tell Felicity everything, especially about his son. Oliver shouldn’t even make this his New Year’s resolution — he needs to make it his first priority. Because if he keeps lying to Felicity, even though they’re planning to get married, he’s going to lose her forever. And no one wants to see a seriously depressed Oliver Queen again.