The Starling City Times: News and Media about Arrow

[Guest]

Laurel and Oliver back together and (presumably) the center of the show would be too much stupid for me handle. They're already prone to being boneheaded, mind-boggling and asinine as individual characters far removed from each other. I can't even begin to imagine what their brand of stupid would look like combined/concentrated. 

 

I doubt they would go to back to Laurel/Oliver. They probably learned their lesson with Sara. Enough characters/relationships have been sacrificed so Laurel could take her ~rightful~ place. 

 

It would basically turn into the Lauriver show because they'd spend time/scenes on their romance on top of scenes with them working together out in the field. So much O/L. Yikes. I'd switch off my TV so fast. LMAO. 

[hogwash]

Yeah, I wouldn't watch a Lauriver show either. Sara was better equipped as the Canary but the Sara/Oliver show in 2B bored me. I don't see how Laurel/Oliver would work any better.

 

That comment sounded meaner than I wanted. I just meant that the show gets a lot mileage of Oliver making self-sacrificing and careless decisions when he's emotionally compromised while Laurel can be...dense... There were better ways to resurrect Sara but Laurel ignoring all advice and warnings and doing whatever she wanted was pretty in-character. So that dynamic with the plot-driven nature of the show??? YikesX1000.

[tarotx]

I loved all of season 2 but I can see why if your favorite character(s) was marginalized it would be disappointing. The large chunk of the current audience seems very pro OTA (with a smaller but present Second group wanting a more comic character centric team). When there isn't the team pattern it feels off. Even for me as a very pro Sara fan. I personally think less people would worry about Olicity (the Laureliver fans aside) if the action Scenes were more focused on Oliver kicking ass.

I actually think the team spirit that is what is missing in the flashbacks too. The Flashbacks consisted of a group we grew to enjoy watching interact and then they slowly killed them off and began a new. The s3 new location made the flashbacks feel less was at stake (until the very end) and the new group dynamic was pleasant but not really engaging on a full time basis. This year has a group with no charisma or charm. At this point I wish Oliver was alone on the island.

Oh right this is the media thread....

Edited December 16, 2015 by tarotx

[Velocity23]

Awww the famous story how Emily got hired on that podcast.

[Traveller]

Did they see this as a good or a bad thing? Or are they talking about a show starring only Hawkgirl, but now that it's a whole bunch of legends, they see it differently?

Mostly in a negative light that it would be one step back towards Arrow which a much darker tone.

[Guest]

Awww the famous story how Emily got hired on that podcast.

 

It's always so nice to hear. I'm not the biggest fan of AK but "Arrow wasn't Arrow until Felicity found out." Yasssss. My thoughts exactly. 

[NumberCruncher]

It's comments like that which make me wonder why people are always so hard on AK. To be completely honest, I've always suspected he was a bigger Felicity fanboy than most people think which is why it made me sad that he was shuffled off to The Flash. AK was also the one who gave the interview at 2014 Comic Con where he talked and talked about the mad chemistry that Stephen and Emily had from the start. I think he was the main driver in why they chose to put Oliver and Felicity together on the show. Of course he loves Laurel/BC, but he's always shown himself to be a big believer in Olicity even despite the non-canon nature of the relationship.

[dtissagirl]

Transcript I just saw on Tumblr:

 

 

http://eloquence-of-felicities.tumblr.com/post/135325150467/special-agent-rana-olicitysizzles-took-the-time

 

I love this story, because it tells me that they were planning on making Felicity's role way bigger from the get go.

[NumberCruncher]

So much for "pandering to fans". ;)

[dtissagirl]

It's comments like that which make me wonder why people are always so hard on AK.

 

I never thought he was anti-O/F, but I do find his writing way too juvenile and male-fantasy oriented for my tastes.

[Primal Slayer]

If only they learned to write more happy in general for everyone back then who wasn't Felicity. 

[NumberCruncher]

I never thought he was anti-O/F, but I do find his writing way too juvenile and male-fantasy oriented for my tastes.

I've not really had issue with his writing on Arrow...The Flash is a completely different story. He made Felicity a caricature of herself over on that show. The reason I posted what I did is that I've often seen people use AK as the main cheerleader for having the show put Oliver and Laurel back together as a couple because he loves Laurel/BC so much. I've never really believed that to be true. My point was that while he does love Laurel, that never meant that he loved Felicity any less, nor does it mean that he was going to be a comic canon diehard in the Green Arrow/Black Canary love affair.

Edited December 16, 2015 by NumberCruncher

[apinknightmare]

If only they learned to write more happy in general for everyone back then who wasn't Felicity.

I don't think it was an issue of needing to learn how to do it, I think it was that they wanted everyone to be bogged down in angst and unhappiness, and then realized they needed at least one character to lighten things up.

Edited December 16, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Chaser]

Does anyone know why they decided to split the showrunners like they did? AK to The Flash, MG staying with Arrow and who is going to LOT? 

[dtissagirl]

Does anyone know why they decided to split the showrunners like they did? AK to The Flash, MG staying with Arrow and who is going to LOT? 

 

They hired Phil Klemmer specially for LoT. And I think the reason Kreisberg moved over to Flash is simply because Guggenheim is not involved in that show. So Arrow got him. I don't know WHY he isn't involved in Flash, though.

Edited December 16, 2015 by dtissagirl

[way2interested]

 

http://eloquence-of-felicities.tumblr.com/post/135325150467/special-agent-rana-olicitysizzles-took-the-time

 

I love this story, because it tells me that they were planning on making Felicity's role way bigger from the get go.

 

I will never get tired of this story, no matter how often they say it or how much they muddle or over-exaggerate the details. It gets me closer and closer to figuring out the mindset of the writers for s1 and why they made the choices that they did.

 

 

Does anyone know why they decided to split the showrunners like they did? AK to The Flash, MG staying with Arrow and who is going to LOT? 

No idea, it could be like someone mentioned earlier, that AK just matches the tone of what they wanted Flash to be better than MG. I'm actually sure it was a mutual agreement between MG, AK, and GB with who was going to do what. For LoT, MG and AK are both still showrunners for LoT, but I think Phil Klemmer is going to take over most of the actual showrunner work, since he did most of the press for it.

 

Edited because dtissagirl beat me to it!

Edited December 16, 2015 by way2interested

[Starfish35]

TVLine revisits their Who's In The Grave predictions:

http://tvline.com/2015/12/16/arrow-felicity-dead-grave-theories-season-4/

[Velocity23]

Tim Goodman's Best Network Shows of 2015

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/lists/tim-goodmans-best-network-shows-848969/item/jane-virgin-tgnetworkseries2015-848971

 

[Chaser]

Tim Goodman's Best Network Shows of 2015

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/lists/tim-goodmans-best-network-shows-848969/item/jane-virgin-tgnetworkseries2015-848971

 

I miss the old Arrow suit.

[lemotomato]

It's comments like that which make me wonder why people are always so hard on AK. To be completely honest, I've always suspected he was a bigger Felicity fanboy than most people think which is why it made me sad that he was shuffled off to The Flash. AK was also the one who gave the interview at 2014 Comic Con where he talked and talked about the mad chemistry that Stephen and Emily had from the start. I think he was the main driver in why they chose to put Oliver and Felicity together on the show. Of course he loves Laurel/BC, but he's always shown himself to be a big believer in Olicity even despite the non-canon nature of the relationship.

I don't doubt that AK saw the chemistry and potential in Oliver/Felicity. But based on what I've read about the relationships on Flash, I do think that if AK were still on Arrow, Felicity would've just been another notch on Oliver's bedpost with Laurel/Oliver as endgame no matter what. He might be pro-Olicity to a certain extent, but not in a meaningful, show centerpiece relationship kind of way. I don't think it's a coincidence that the Laurel/Oliver teases and Oliver's parade of new love interests ended when AK left for Flash, so I'm grateful he doesn't have much to do with Arrow anymore. Edited December 16, 2015 by lemotomato

[bijoux]

Mostly in a negative light that it would be one step back towards Arrow which a much darker tone.

Am I reading this wrong or is he putting down both Arrow and LoT at the expense of The Flash?

[Velocity23]

 

Arrow is up 3% from last season in people 18-49, currently averaging a 1.04 rating. Also of note, this is the only show on CW on the plus side this season. In total viewers, it's averaging 2.68 million viewers and bumping up 52% in total viewers within one week on the DVR. It might not be as big as The Flash, but it's the second most watched show and it's a reliable performer.

 

http://www.tvfanatic.com/slideshows/the-cw-at-midseason-what-will-get-renewed/

[kismet]

Does anyone know why they decided to split the showrunners like they did? AK to The Flash, MG staying with Arrow and who is going to LOT? 

Like others have said I think AKs tones and interests better match the goals of FLASH & Supergirl. He just has more of that lighter upbeat after-school special feel to his work. And I have to agree with others, I tend to find a lot of his scripts and characterizations juvenile. As for what Olicity might have looked like under AK - I don't think it would have been as adult a relationship as it is now. I imagine it would have been a cross between how we saw RP/FS all TMI juvenile innuendos with a little bit of Iris/Eddie this is totally a ship stall pseudo-stable placeholder relationship.

 

MG I think is just more of a darker ARROW type of guy. I think his interest in LoT is that he can go balls to the wall crazy with plot twists, gotchas and takebacks. He can basically do anything he wants with LoT show. There is no real canon. The parameters and consequences of time-travel can change on a whim. It's like they let a child loose in a toy story with a blank check. So I can imagine he is over the moon that he can make legends in his own time, that to me fits his ego perfectly.

Edited December 16, 2015 by kismet

[TwistedandBored]

The Arrow writers might struggle writing romance storylines but they are soo much better than The Flash and Supergirl writers. Honestly, Supergirl is giving me flashbacks to The Tomorrow People on how early it's jumping on the romantic relationships and triangles. 

[way2interested]

Replying in Mind Your Surroundings

[Traveller]

Am I reading this wrong or is he putting down both Arrow and LoT at the expense of The Flash?

Well, it appeared that he though that creating a darker show (The Hawk Show) would be a step backwards from Flash towards Arrow. So, he certainly thinks that the Flash is a step ahead from Arrow since it has a more lighter tone, which I think he wants in a comic show. So, they created LoT instead of a show just about the Hawks.

[BkWurm1]

 

 

Did they see this as a good or a bad thing? Or are they talking about a show starring only Hawkgirl, but now that it's a whole bunch of legends, they see it differently?

I thought he was just referring to originally planning on only bringing in Hawkgirl on LoT and then changing their minds and adding Hawkman, not that they ever planned a show with only Hawkgirl. 

[bijoux]

Thanks for clarifying, guys.

[Morrigan2575]

I thought he was just referring to originally planning on only bringing in Hawkgirl on LoT and then changing their minds and adding Hawkman, not that they ever planned a show with only Hawkgirl.

Correct

[Traveller]

As far as I can remember, he was talking about a show only about Hawkgirl and then both the Hawks and the flashbacks would deal with both their previous past lives.

Around 38:41 time mark of the podcast.

Edited December 17, 2015 by Traveller

[Morrigan2575]

That doesn't make sense with what we know of the history involved with the Spinoff (LoT). Unless he was talking about that rumored spinoff that was talked about right after LoT was announced? There was a rumor that Hawkgirl was getting her own spinoff from LoT.

Of course there was also that Firestorm spin-off rumor and soft/backdoor pilot. So maybe it's one of those kitchen sinks deals? After CW rejected ATOM, Berlanti started throwing everything at CW. Firestorm spin-off? No. OK how about a Hawkgirl Spinoff? No. Oookkkkayyy how about a team spin-off? Maybe, tell me more.

Edited December 17, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[Traveller]

I think the rumor was wrong. Andrew explicitly states that originally the spinoff was clearly going to be about just Hawkgirl and then the Hawks with their past lives but then they realised that it won't ever be bigger than the Flash.

[hogwash]

Sara being apart of LOT is what makes me really think it was kitchen sink deal. Backlash/hate S03 was getting around the same time probably made it look like she had a guaranteed fanbase/interest a new show would need. More than Ray or Ronnie had anyway. 

Edited December 17, 2015 by hogwash

[Morrigan2575]

I think the rumor was wrong. Andrew explicitly states that originally the spinoff was clearly going to be about just Hawkgirl and then the Hawks with their past lives but then they realised that it won't ever be bigger than the Flash.

What spin-off? LOT? Because that was originally an ATOM spinoff, had been since August 2014. So they may have gone from ATOM to Hawkgirl to Hawkgirl/Hawkman to LoT but if AJK is trying to shovel some shit about Hawkgirl always being the plan well he's full of it.

[tv echo]

This article is very timely (considering the current discussion in the Felicity thread)...

 

‘Arrow’: Why John Diggle and Felicity Smoak Don’t Need Costumes to be Heroes
BY GREGORY ROGERS IN WORLD — DEC 17, 2015
http://voiceobserver.com/2015/12/17/8216-arrow-8217-why-john-diggle-and-felicity-smoak-don-t.html

Heroes aren’t measured by their wardrobe or their nicknames. They’re measured by their actions, morals, and the hope they inspire amongst others. A hero is someone who has put others ahead of themselves for no other reason than because it’s the right thing to do. They believe that they can make a difference for those in the world that might need some extra help. Helping the helpless, making sacrifices and inspiring hope are all components in creating the persona of a hero.
 

But in a world that seems more obsessed with the visual appeal of a superhero than the moral appeal, some of the real heroes – who aren’t costumed – go underappreciated. Case in point, Arrow’s John Diggle (David Ramsey) and Felicity Smoak (Emily Bett Rickards), who proved long ago that they could stand toe-to-toe alongside Oliver Queen in the hero department despite their lack of threads.

 

There are so many costumes on Arrow now that I swear if I had a drink for every new costume I’d be stumbling through this post.

Edited December 17, 2015 by tv echo

[Primal Slayer]

Except it makes sense for Diggle to wear a mask if he is fighting bad guys directly.

[TwistedandBored]

Except it makes sense for Diggle to wear a mask if he is fighting bad guys directly.

 

I agree but I liked the Ski Mask Diggle used to wear on the field better than his current Magneto Helmet.  

[tv echo]

Arrow: 5 Reasons Why Felicity Is Not Going To Die
Laura Hurley  18 Dec 2015
http://whatculture.com/tv/arrow-5-reasons-why-felicity-is-not-going-to-die.php

Felicity Smoak is arguably the female lead of Arrow, but she is also the member of Team Arrow about whom the least personal information has been revealed. She has had the fewest plots just about her. Emily Bett Rickards has turned Felicity into one of the most nuanced characters of the show, but she’s had little help from the writers.
 

Her father has yet to be explored. Her past is still mostly a blank slate. Her life outside of Team Arrow activities is a big question mark. Most of the big deaths of Arrow had come to some degree of closure; there’s still so much story left to Felicity that her death in Season 4 would be a complete waste from a narrative point of view. The writers have had their missteps, but they wouldn’t kill off a major character who still has such a wealth of story potential.
*  *  *
Team Arrow 2.0 managed decently over the summer without Oliver, but they needed Felicity’s help via international wifi to function. Felicity disarms bombs and coordinates missions and finds locations. The fancy cell phone in the midseason finale was useless for anything other than making calls because Felicity wasn’t around to figure out how to use it against Damien Darhk. Team Arrow can survive without some of the muscle; Team Arrow would implode without Felicity, and nobody else on the show has her level of skills or investment to replace her.
*  *  *
Felicity may be the necessary member of Team Arrow, but Oliver is the star of the show. It’s his story that has been explored in past and present. It’s his development and relationships that really matter, and no relationship has been more instrumental to his development into the Green Arrow than that with his lady love Felicity.
*  *  *
Frankly, killing off Felicity would run the risk of alienating a decent chunk of the audience, perhaps to the point of abandoning the show. Between her popularity as a lighter character, the popularity of Olicity, and the wide frustration with Oliver’s love interests being killed off and/or evil, Arrow needs her alive. Audiences have responded well to Emily Bett Rickards and Felicity Smoak, and they would certainly not respond well to her murder. Felicity isn’t going anywhere unless Rickards wants out, and Arrow will be better for it.

Edited December 18, 2015 by tv echo

[tarotx]

It's getting frustrating deciding which one of you is really Laura Hurley. Come out come out who ever you are....

[tv echo]

8 Reasons Felicity Isn't Dead On 'Arrow,' So Everyone Just Calm Down
ALICE WALKER   a day ago
http://www.bustle.com/articles/130424-8-reasons-felicity-isnt-dead-on-arrow-so-everyone-just-calm-down

... Then Felicity was shot on Arrow, leaving many to speculate (read: lose their minds) that she is the person in the mystery grave from the flash-forward we saw in the season premiere.
 

I understand the concern. After all, Felicity is a national treasure at this point, but I am here to tell you that Felicity is not dead on Arrow. I not only want this to be true, but the facts support it. So here it is plain as day, the many reasons why Felicity will be alive and well once Season 4 returns.
*  *  *
3. Future-Oliver Isn't Sad Enough

When we see Oliver at the grave he is sad, yes. But not "I just lost the love of my life and the light of my world" sad. Also, I'm pretty sure Barry would be way more cut up if they were at Felicity's grave, but he seems more concerned for Oliver than anything else.
*  *  *
7. Olicity

Not to take anything away from the friendship, family, and action on the show, but I really don't see how Arrow could survive without the beating heart that is Olicity. Killing Felicity doesn't make sense for the current plot, and it certainly wouldn't help with ratings or fan feedback.

Edited December 19, 2015 by tv echo

[kismet]

The "killing" of FS is working for this hiatus in the same way the "killing" of OQ worked last year. Everybody knows its not going to stick. Yet everybody still feels the need to write articles about it and read articles about it. It is generating buzz for the show in the most easiest of ways. Plus link it to the possible grave and you have a secondary set of buzzy articles or click bait. Can you imagine anybody else of the cast getting pulled out of a limo bleeding to death that would have generated this much buzz? We all have our favorites, but it is undeniable that the only other character besides OQ that can generate article buzz like this is FS. Which is why she is going nowhere. Makes me wonder what they have in store for OQ &/or FS over hiatus next year.

[jay741982]

The "killing" of FS is working for this hiatus in the same way the "killing" of OQ worked last year. Everybody knows its not going to stick. Yet everybody still feels the need to write articles about it and read articles about it. It is generating buzz for the show in the most easiest of ways. Plus link it to the possible grave and you have a secondary set of buzzy articles or click bait. Can you imagine anybody else of the cast getting pulled out of a limo bleeding to death that would have generated this much buzz? We all have our favorites, but it is undeniable that the only other character besides OQ that can generate article buzz like this is FS. Which is why she is going nowhere. Makes me wonder what they have in store for OQ &/or FS over hiatus next year.

Oliver and Felicity both "disappear" or "Die" Probably lol or they switch it up and Dig takes a turn provided he don't die this season

[kismet]

Oliver and Felicity both "disappear" or "Die" Probably lol or they switch it up and Dig takes a turn provided he don't die this season

I don't think Dig would generate as much buzz. I love DR & Dig, but he is not as buzzworthy. I feel like his helmet only trended because it was absolutely awful. But perhaps Dig "dies" trying to find a missing Olicity... boom we've killed Dig at least one & everyone can still talk about a missing Olicity ~ buzzy everywhere.

Edited December 18, 2015 by kismet

[NumberCruncher]

They just need to stop altogether with the MSF fake-out death thing. It's seriously beyond old at this point.

[jay741982]

I don't think Dig would generate as much buzz. I love DR & Dig, but he is not as buzzworthy. I feel like his helmet only trended because it was absolutely awful. But perhaps Dig "dies" trying to find a missing Olicity... boom we've killed Dig at least one & everyone can still talk about a missing Olicity ~ buzzy everywhere.

I kinda like the idea of Oliver and Felicity go missing and Dig and Thea set out to find them.

They just need to stop altogether with the MSF fake-out death thing. It's seriously beyond old at this point.

Yeah I don't want the fake-out death happening every season either

[Starfish35]

Out of curiosity, I just checked the TVLine "who's going to die" poll numbers. Laurel is almost up with Lance now, at 20.82% to his 21.12%. Felicity's still in third, but far back at 12%.

[way2interested]

I kinda like the idea of Oliver and Felicity go missing and Dig and Thea set out to find them.

Yeah I don't want the fake-out death happening every season either

 

Yep, I think they've run the fake-out death plot line to the ground as of now, but it's them following a pattern they've set out for themselves. S1 and 2 both had dramatic villain reveals, s3 and 4 both had their mains appear to die. Once we get to s5 they'll have to find some other sort of dramatic ending for 509 to parallel for 609. And please oh please I would love this idea, make it so!

[Guest]

In light of the 'Felicity's not dead' articles, can you imagine if Felicity did die though?

First she gets shot and (probably) ends up in a wheelchair. Meets her evil dad. Finds out her fiancé is lying to her about having a child. Then gets killed. Haha that would just be the meanest thing ever. Talk about torturing the audience who are actually Felicity fans.

 

I still think it's Lance but I have to admit to intermittently being worried about Diggle. DON'T YOU BE KILLING MY DIGGLE. 

Edited December 19, 2015 by Guest

[Primal Slayer]

I think Diggle is safest, he is the only full time minority character, they aren't going to get rid him. 

[Guest]

That's what I usually think but then sometimes, just sometimes, I have this feeling of dread where Diggle's concerned, especially as its likely they'll wrap up his storyline with his brother this season.

 

But he's also the only other male on the team so that's another thing in his favor. As I said, most of the time I don't worry about him at all.