The Starling City Times: News and Media about Arrow

[tv echo]

Review: 'Arrow' and 'Flash' Close 'Legends of Yesterday' Crossover With a Time-Turning Twist
Kevin Fitzpatrick | 13 hours ago
http://screencrush.com/arrow-legends-of-yesterday-crossover-review/

... No more Felicity on fire, please and thank you.
*  *  *
Not only that, but the temporal aspect also made it a bit difficult to grasp any real through-line of Oliver and Felicity’s argument in either scenario. Crossover necessitates speedy resolution as is, something we saw yesterday in Barry’s immediate decision to call for Oliver’s help, and the same applied with Felicity immediately confronting Oliver for keeping his son from her … about an hour after he found out. Not that Oliver himself couldn’t have waited a few days to take care of Savage first, but the whole scenario felt a bit contrived, if only to revert Oliver to secret-keeping and build a breakup strategy into the relationship with Felicity. TV is always going to tug at a happy couple’s threads, but “Yesterday” never really presented a compelling argument for Oliver to keep Felicity in the dark in either case, a decision made all the weirder by his refusal to heed Barry’s vision of an alternate past.

[AyChihuahua]

Huh. For once I agree with her. I mean, I'm not raging about it. But it absolutely is "TV drama bullshit". And this is a little petty, I admit, but it's kind of nice to see her for once not being all "the writers have a perfect plan and it's all going to be great."

That was totally the best part.  Her sunshine-y "always trust the writers!" has made me want to vomit for months.

[Belinea]

Just as a general question: Did anyone in the reviews like the child subplot? Anyone? Sometimes I wonder if the writers and producers are aware of which storylines might be unpopular with most viewers and just don't care or if they actually think that people might be into it. I just never know what to think: ignorant or stupid ... which is it?

Edited December 3, 2015 by Belinea

[jb0495]

Just as a general question: Did anyone in the reviews like the child subplot? Anyone? Sometimes I wonder if the writers and producers are aware of which storylines might be unpopular with most viewers and just don't care or if they actually think that people might be into it. I just never know what to think: ignorant or stupid ... which is it?

.

I actually LOVED Oliver's interaction with William. SA was great portraying Oliver as a dad. I just wish it hadn't been portrayed until an Olicity baby was around-with glasses, a six pack & Bratva tattoo ;)

[TwistedandBored]

It seems both fans and critics are not impressed with this years crossover episodes. I mean it kinda of makes sense why CW and Company cancelled that crossover event. Honestly, this was such a huge letdown.

 

I don't think any fandom is happy. Olicity fans, Felicity fans, Oliver fans, Iris fans, WA fans, Laurel/BC fans, Arrow fans, and Flash fans are all in some ways hating these two episodes. I would understand if this two episodes were used as a true spinoff episodes for LOT characters but most of those characters were nowhere to be seen except for the Hawks and VS. 

[AyChihuahua]

Just as a general question: Did anyone in the reviews like the child subplot? Anyone? Sometimes I wonder if the writers and producers are aware of which storylines might be unpopular with most viewers and just don't care or if they actually think that people might be into it. I just never know what to think: ignorant or stupid ... which is it?

All the reviews I've seen have hated it.  Lots thought the whole episode was meh, but all hate the kid crap.  Both pro-Olicity reviewers, for ruining Olicity, and anti-Olicity reviewers, for more bullshit melodramatic angst.

[Starfish35]

Arrow's Big, Improbable 'Olicity' Fight: 10 Ways It Hit Below the Belt

http://tvline.com/2015/12/03/arrow-season-4-oliver-felicity-breakup/

[AyChihuahua]

Arrow's Big, Improbable 'Olicity' Fight: 10 Ways It Hit Below the Belt

http://tvline.com/2015/12/03/arrow-season-4-oliver-felicity-breakup/

I tweeted that to the writers.  It's mean, and I really don't care.  They SUCK.

[Starfish35]

Lol I hope they're reading all the terrible reviews.

[AyChihuahua]

Lol I hope they're reading all the terrible reviews.

Oh, even if they aren't I bet the network is.

[Belinea]

I really wonder...Do they care? I mean MG seemed pretty passiv-aggressive in his tweet or was it just my opinion of it? Sometimes those statements afterwards makes me think that they truly thought the storyline would go over better...

Edited December 3, 2015 by Belinea

[Princess Vanellope]

MG wrote the turd sandwich, so it doesn't surprise me that he was defensive. Honestly, I don't think they care. Just look at the Wedding from Hell last year. However, I think the network cares. Bad press can't be good for generating revenue. I absolutely could be wrong though.

[catrox14]

Oh, even if they aren't I bet the network is.

 

And IMO the network doesn't care as along as the ratings are good.  Bad press is better than no press as they say. 

[lexicon]

I'd like to think somebody cares but at this point I'm just not sure

[apinknightmare]

I don't think bad reviews of one episode worry any of them very much. It may make TPTB wonder if the audience's tolerance for the story they've got unfolding is as high as they were anticipating. As long as the ratings stay up and the negativity doesn't continue throughout the next arc of episodes, they probably won't care much. If we get to the middle of the season with dropping numbers and bad reviews, then they'll take note. I don't think that'll happen, though. 

[AyChihuahua]

They care to the extent it affects the bottom line.  So ratings, basically.  But I'm sure it sucks for pretty much every review to point out the ugly-ass turd you laid, so I hope MG is miserable and alone today.  And I'm betting the network is calling them, plus I am totally on-board that they cancelled the screening bc they knew how pissed people would be.

[Chaser]

I wish they would have keep the screening. The entertainment from the Q&A would have been amazing.

 

I think they anticipated some type of negative reaction. It's Oliver hiding his kid from Felicity. There was no way that was going to go over well. I don't know if they realized just how bad is was going to be on twitter. It was brutal last night.

[Password]

I'm not on Twitter. What happened? No one praised the beauty of Ollie emerging once more?

[NumberCruncher]

Of course they don't care about the anger from last night or the overwhelmingly negative reviews. All they care about are the ratings, which thanks to The Flash viewers (and most definitely not Arrow's shitty writing), were the best of the season. I'm sure they'll just chalk it up to angry shippers because, you know, shippers can't differentiate between good storytelling vs. wretchedly bad storytelling and move on to their next really bad idea.

[AyChihuahua]

Of course they don't care about the anger from last night or the overwhelmingly negative reviews. All they care about are the ratings, which thanks to The Flash viewers (and most definitely not Arrow's shitty writing), were the best of the season. I'm sure they'll just chalk it up to angry shippers because, you know, shippers can't differentiate between good storytelling vs. wretchedly bad storytelling and move on to their next really bad idea.

Oh yeah, the ratings for THIS episode were always going to be great.  The crossovers always do well, plus the viewers didn't know about the turd sandwich ahead of time.  I do think next episode will go closer to normal (with probably some leftover bump), and 4.10, too, because people will want to see the cliffhanger resolution.  It's after that the the O/F angst and melodrama will start pushing viewers away.  Again, the dudebro viewers hate it bc they hate the soapy melodrama, and the O/F people hate it because, you know, it sucks ass.

[NumberCruncher]

Again, the dudebro viewers hate it bc they hate the soapy melodrama, and the O/F people hate it because, you know, it sucks ass.

Well at least the writers have finally found a way to bring all fans into agreement so there's that.

[Password]

I was about to suggest an episode 1-7 (+1 from The Flash) rewatch to season 4.

But now I feel too ill to attempt it. Agh. Tainted.

[AyChihuahua]

http://www.pajiba.com/tv_reviews/crossover-plot-makes-flash-arrow-bit-players-on-own-shows.php

 

There's a gif in this review of Laurel's hair getting stuck in her mouth when she's about to Bark Collar Vidal Sassoon.  

 

Also, in the top pic both hawkpeople look like mouthbreathers.

Edited December 4, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[jay741982]

I'm not on Twitter. What happened? No one praised the beauty of Ollie emerging once more?

I follow quite a few fans who love the Show and they HATED that episode. "Bullshit unneeded Tv Drama!" "Fuck Oliver" a few pointed out how Felicity agonized and was worried sick that he would grow to hate her if she told him about Moira hiding Thea's true father from him and Thea yet did it and he hides this from her! I saw a few who said they will hate to see Felicity hurt but he deserves that pain etc etc

[Primal Slayer]

And Laurel handled her hair like a champ! If only they actually used the Canary Cry like it should've been used in that scene.

[statsgirl]

Arrow's Big, Improbable 'Olicity' Fight: 10 Ways It Hit Below the Belt

http://tvline.com/2015/12/03/arrow-season-4-oliver-felicity-breakup/

You know it was bad when Matt Mitovich says it's too much like a soap opera for him.

[arjumand]

You know it was bad when Matt Mitovich says it's too much like a soap opera for him.

 

That's really what I'm most annoyed about - if the writers wanted Oliver and Felicity to fight, fine, whatever. But why about this? Why make our superhero show into a soap, complete with secret baby drama?

Maybe I'm prejudiced, because I'm of the KIDS RUIN EVERYTHING mindset, but this is just the worst.

[tv echo]

This article questions why even bother to introduce Oliver's son (all speculation)...

 

'Arrow': The Big Problem with Oliver's Son
Thursday, December 03, 2015 Derek Stauffer
http://www.buddytv.com/articles/arrow/arrow-the-big-problem-with-oli-58242.aspx

The only conceivable reason to bring William back now is if he is the person that is in the grave shown in the season 4 premiere. It would be the mother of cop outs but it would explain why William was brought into the story now or why William was even conceived as a character. It's not as if Samantha and William are joining Arrow as regulars so we won't get the regular influence of Oliver as a father. At best it will happen off-screen and being implied by a change in Oliver's demeanor.
*  *  *
... Samantha's demands for Oliver being a part of William's life just make no sense. It's not the fact that she doesn't want Oliver's life mixing with theirs, on that point Samantha is absolutely right. It's too much to throw onto her son at once and Oliver lives a crazy life. There's no reason for Samantha forbidding Oliver to tell Felicity or anyone else about William.
 

Oliver is not asking Samantha for the world as she claims. He's just asking Samantha to meet his son, that he didn't even know existed. Samantha's insane demand is not something that any normal human being would say because Samantha doesn't act like a normal human. Samantha and William aren't characters, especially Samantha. We have no reason to care about either one of them, except in the abstract sense. They both exist to add complications to the plot. Complications to the plot that are directly related to the Olicity storyline.
*  *  *
... Arrow season 4 has been very good on correcting that front. Oliver and Felicity have fought with one another, but it always made sense. They've been open about their feelings and addressed their issues up front with one another. Oliver, Felicity and Arrow, as a whole, all learned from their season 3 mistakes. Thanks to Samantha and her weird stipulation, we are right back to where we were in season 3. Oliver is needlessly lying to Felicity and the secret will come out in the most horrible way possible. Does Samantha have Oliver's apartment bugged? Why can't he just tell Felicity the truth? If Oliver loves Felicity, and he does, why is Samantha's feelings more important that Felicity.

Edited December 4, 2015 by tv echo

[tv echo]

This reviewer gave 408 a rating of 8.8(!)...

 

Arrow Review: "Legends of Yesterday" (Episode 4.08)
By Mark Rozeman  |  December 3, 2015  |  1:22pm
http://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2015/12/arrow-review-legends-of-yesterday.html

While it’s all well and good that the episode boasts a highly personal narrative in the midst of what could easily have served as a bloated backdoor pilot, Samantha’s demands can’t help but feel like little more than a blatantly contrived means of throwing further bumps into Oliver and Felicity’s relationship. And, indeed, that’s exactly what it does. After learning about William, Felicity is enraged—not because Oliver has an illegitimate child but because he didn’t feel as though she could be trusted with that info. This appears to be the last straw, and the two break up.
*  *  *
... Oliver agrees to keep William’s parentage a secret from everyone in exchange for visiting rights; Oliver and Felicity remain together, though Felicity’s final look all but confirms she knows that something is up...

[tv echo]

This reviewer liked both halves of the Flash/Arrow crossover event...

 

Arrow Season 4: 23 WTF Moments From ‘Legends Of Yesterday’
Andrew Pollard   3 DEC 2015
http://whatculture.com/tv/arrow-season-4-23-wtf-moments-from-legends-of-yesterday.php

The first episode, Legends of Today, was one of the very best episodes of either Arrow or The Flash to date, which in itself is no mean feat. Fortunately, Legends of Yesterday continued the high standard and gave viewers yet another fantastic outing for the Emerald Archer, Scarlet Speedster, and Co.
*  *  *
If feels that barely an episode goes by without Laurel Lance/Black Canary doing nothing of note or simply just being awful. In fairness, Laurel’s effort in the first part of this crossover, Legends of Today, was stunning to watch because… well, because she wasn’t in that episode at all.

With Oliver deciding to take Black Canary, Speedy and Diggle into battle with him against Vandal Savage this time, Canary appears out of the back of a van like something out of a bad A-Team episode.
 

What follows is a Canary Cry that just felt “meh” and had you again asking WTF is the point of Black Canary in this show. Seriously, there is no character in any comic book-based show that is written worse than Canary right now.

Edited December 4, 2015 by tv echo

[dtissagirl]

Samantha's insane demand is not something that any normal human being would say because Samantha doesn't act like a normal human. Samantha and William aren't characters, especially Samantha. We have no reason to care about either one of them, except in the abstract sense. They both exist to add complications to the plot. Complications to the plot that are directly related to the Olicity storyline.

 

This, forever. Thanks, BuddyTV writer, you're cool.

[tv echo]

Same Geek Channel: ‘The Flash’/’Arrow’ Crossover Event Recap
Posted on 4 December, 2015 by Joey L. Mills
http://geekdad.com/2015/12/sgc-flasharrow-crossover/

... What happens-but-gets-changed is that Ollie finds out that the boy–William–that he thought was his son actually is Ollie’s son and in spite of Barry’s best effort to cover for Ollie, Felicity finds out. Ollie promises Samantha to keep the fact that William is Ollie’s son a secret, even from Felicity. Felicity gives Ollie the chance to come clean, but Ollie lies to her face, then makes some lame excuse about needing to process all this alone for a minute, leading Felicity to break off their relationship.
*  *  *
... Barry tells Ollie that yes, William is Ollie’s son, and that while William does need his father in his life, Ollie can’t keep that a secret from Felicity.
*  *  *
I’ll admit, at times this week I’ve wondered how much longer I want to stick with these shows when the heroes are killing without remorse. I like these shows. I like the writing. I like the actors. But at what point does it become an issue of, “You know, they’ve lost what it means for these guys to be heroes. Now it’s just people I like who are supposed to be the good guys killing the people I like who are supposed to be the bad guys, just because that is what’s easiest at the time. And there’s no ramifications for all that killing. The only one disturbed by it is me, and I’m done.”
*  *  *
... Ollie promises, again, not to tell Felicity about William and is rewarded with action figure play time with his son. When they get back to Star City, Felicity gives Ollie every chance to come clean with her about what had him so preoccupied in Central City. Still, Ollie keeps his secret to himself, and since Felicity doesn’t know any better this time, all is right between them. For now.
*  *  *
How can the EPs say they want to bring the stakes back and make the grave the final resting place for any of these characters while bringing back a character from the dead or from the presumption of death every other episode?

[tv echo]

Laura Hurley will also be posting a "What Didn't Work" section on 408 later today...

 

'Arrow' S04E08: What worked in 'Legends of Yesterday'
Laura Hurley  December 3, 2015 11:16 AM MST
http://www.examiner.com/article/arrow-s04e08-what-worked-legends-of-yesterday

The performances of most of the principal actors in “Legends of Yesterday” were on point. Cisco had a rather thankless role of a lovelorn underdog who was never going to get the girl, but Carlos Valdes did what he could to hold onto some dignity for poor Cisco. Felicity’s big emotional moments rang somewhat hollow thanks to the narrative rush to squeeze two timelines into one episode, but Emily Bett Rickards was excellent. She toed the line between overbearing and understanding in just the right way for Felicity in “Legends of Yesterday,” and the fight between Oliver and Felicity would not have been nearly as gutting if she’d phoned her performance in. The writing wasn't great, but the acting was good.
 

Grant Gustin has really come into his own as Barry Allen, and he wears lighthearted maturity much better than he wore youthful arrogance. He shone particularly in the second half after time travel came into play and he became the only character who really understood the stakes of messing with timelines.
 

Stephen Amell, however, was the MVP for “Legends of Yesterday.” He totally sold the panicky edge to Oliver throughout the entire first timeline of the episode as the baby mama drama unfolded, and it’s only thanks to the performance that added some nuance to an clumsy plot that Oliver remained the sympathetic party up until almost the very end.

[tv echo]

ARROW’S “LEGENDS OF YESTERDAY” (S4, EP8): RUN BARRY, RUN
Posted on December 3, 2015 by Kelly Konda
http://weminoredinfilm.com/2015/12/03/arrows-legends-of-yesterday-s4-ep8-run-barry-run/

... the end result is something which felt more like a movie with two somewhat distinct halves and less like two episodes of television. That’s really just my way of saying that I don’t completely know how to judge the effectiveness of the episodes. I just know that for what they were they were both a lot of fun, although I don’t know if an Arrow episode has ever looked any campier.
*  *  *
... Carter and Kendra – go train or something. Compare wing sizes. I don’t know. I have an illegitimate son to go stalk and an ex-girlfriend to confront. I sure hope that she doesn’t tell me that the only way I can be a part of my son’s life is if I keep it a total secret from everyone I know, almost as if she sensed I was in a committed, loving relationship which needed a somewhat artificial obstacle thrown at it because some force larger than us worried we were becoming boring.”
*  *  *
... The difference here is that Oliver is not the one who did the time traveling, but he knows through Barry that Felicity will pretty much break up with him if he lies to her about his son. So, he uses that knowledge to commit himself to doing a better job of making sure she doesn’t find out.
*  *  *
We all knew that Oliver’s son was going to come back into the picture at some point.  I just didn’t expect them to manufacture this into a situation in which Oliver would have to choose between Felicity or his son through rather convoluted “Feliicity wants me to be completely honest with her” but “My baby momma wants me to lie to everyone” means.  Still, that scene with Oliver playing with his son, happily picking up the Captain Cold action figure and being the bad guy to his son’s Flash, goes on the Stephen Amell highlight reel.
*  *  *
The sooner those Hawkgirl and Hawkman costumes leave our screens the better.
*  *  *.
Let’s briefly get serious and ask if the CW should follow the example of the Gods of Egypt producers and issue an apology for largely whitewashing two-thirds of its significant Egyptian characters. After that, let’s get real and remember that this is the CW, and we shouldn’t be taking Arrow and Flash so seriously.
*  *  *
No matter how hard they try, Black Canary’s sonic choker-enhanced scream will always look silly.

Edited December 4, 2015 by tv echo

[tv echo]

ARROW: "LEGENDS OF YESTERDAY" REVIEW
BY JESSE SCHEDEEN   2 DEC 2015
http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/12/03/arrow-legends-of-yesterday-review

Like "Legends of Today," there was a subplot that played out over the course of this episode that was largely removed from the rest of the conflict. Unlike the Harrison Wells subplot on The Flash, however, Ollie's struggle fit much more naturally into the bigger picture. The whole point is that he was too distracted by the discovery of the son he never knew he had to properly prepare for one of the most important fights of his life. Stephen Amell delivered a great performance throughout this story. We've seen plenty of Ollie the dark vigilante over the years. This season has also showcased a happier, more cheerful Ollie. But this was a side of Ollie we rarely see - confused, emotionally adrift and utterly alone. Amell was great about conveying the character's desperation and longing to embrace this new part of his life.
 

This is another area where the time travel element really helped. Ollie refusing to let Felicity in on his new secret caused an abrupt implosion of their relationship. While sudden, that breakup was certainly justified given the circumstances. Barry travelling back in time allowed everyone the chance to undo their mistakes and embrace a second chance. Yet we saw Ollie stumble down the exact same path Barry warned him to avoid. He's still keeping this secret from the one person in his life that deserves total honesty. Perhaps it won't destroy their relationship as quickly as it did in "the darkest timeline," but it's clear that it's something that could drive a wedge between Ollie and Felicity all the same. That's a sobering thought as the show bids farewell to its guest stars and resumes focus on its ongoing storylines.

[tv echo]

I agree with most (but not all) of this meta analysis...

 

Olicity Fans, Long Time No See: Time for A Dose of Random Fandom Tea
POSTED 4 HOURS AGO
http://stilettoroyalty.tumblr.com/post/134521878549/olicity-fans-long-time-no-see-time-for-a-dose-of

For starters, it’s incredibly disconcerting to see the amount of people justifying the actions of the mother of Oliver’s child....
*  *  *
... What this mother is doing and asking of Oliver is manipulative. Period. Asking Oliver to be a friend to this child until he gets to know him, is perfectly fine. Dictating that Oliver isn’t to tell the press? Perfectly fine. Dictating that Oliver isn’t to tell his loved ones crosses a line into something more. At that point Samantha became a woman scorned, not a mother. And who could blame her? Moira treated her horribly. Is it fair to say Oliver treated her horribly? I don’t think so. He seemed genuinely ready to take responsibility for his actions if his fling with her resulted in parenthood.
 

As I listened to her list off all of Oliver’s past transgressions, including knocking up a young girl, I realized she still held resentment. Oliver wasn’t alone having unprotected sex. She was a victim of Moira’s poor choices in an effort to protect her son ten years ago. But now, she’s the Moira of this story. She’s the mother protecting her son in a very selfish and misguided manner.This child is 10, I’m sure he’s asked about his father before. Samantha seems still hurt by Oliver’s then inability to value her more. Again, I get it. But she can’t be Oliver’s scorned fling right now. She has to be William’s mother. A court would tell her the same thing. She lied to this man about a kid because of something Moira did, not Oliver. There’s nothing noble about that. Moira didn’t have to be in her son’s life. He could have had a father growing up at least in some form. So one of the first things I’d like this fandom to do is to stop acting as if her demands came from a rational place or that they were in defense of her child. No, Loves. That’s only half the picture. This is very much about the residual issues that linger over how she was treated. Although I will say that I agreed with Oliver to do whatever he had to to get to know his son. That was a big issue for me when they teased this plot. What type of father was Oliver going to be? Because if he was going to be a deadbeat dad, no thanks. I’m still weary of how they write this for Oliver.
*  *  *
... But the fact is, it happened. Oliver found out a tremendous, life-altering secret and didn’t share it with the love of his life. A woman that he has asked to share his life with him, his home, his heart, and that he wants to have as his wife someday. Please stop sugar-coating the significance of that betrayal.
*  *  *
... Once he struck that bargain, he stripped Felicity of her agency in their relationship. From the moment he agreed to do this, he essentially agreed to live a double life. What is he going to tell Felicity each time he visits Central City to see William? He’ll have to lie to her each time. So I’m confused how ANYONE is excusing that or laying that at Felicity’s feet as being unreasonable?

[KenyaJ]

... Carter and Kendra – go train or something. Compare wing sizes. I don’t know. I have an illegitimate son to go stalk and an ex-girlfriend to confront. I sure hope that she doesn’t tell me that the only way I can be a part of my son’s life is if I keep it a total secret from everyone I know, almost as if she sensed I was in a committed, loving relationship which needed a somewhat artificial obstacle thrown at it because some force larger than us worried we were becoming boring."

 

This is such utter perfection that I want to lie to it and then ask it to marry me.

[AyChihuahua]

I'm sincerely loving that every reviewer I've seen hates the BM storyline.  LOVING IT.

This is such utter perfection that I want to lie to it and then ask it to marry me.

Hee, and also, remember that it's only okay if you're afraid you'll otherwise lose it.

Edited December 4, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[Starfish35]

I am so much loving the snark. :) I hope Berlanti, MG, et al. are reading every single one of these articles.

[dtissagirl]

I'm actually waiting for the first rando vanity press article praising this storyline as the greatest thing ever, bc it'll be the one Guggie will retweet.

[AyChihuahua]

I'm actually waiting for the first rando vanity press article praising this storyline as the greatest thing ever, bc it'll be the one Guggie will retweet.

A fair number of reviewers have been fine with the episode in general, but all have been negative about the BM, and I will be quite surprised if any at all mainstream reviewer say anything positive about BM.  After all, BM is just not something you want all over your television screen. 

Edited December 4, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[KenyaJ]

What I love the most is that all these reviewers have cut to the point and expressly stated that this storyline serves no purpose other than creating contrived, unnecessary relationship angst for Oliver and Felicity. I mean, honestly, did the writers think the audience and critics wouldn't see right through this bullshit?

[wonderwall]

What I love the most is that all these reviewers have cut to the point and expressly stated that this storyline serves no purpose other than creating contrived, unnecessary relationship angst for Oliver and Felicity. I mean, honestly, did the writers think the audience and critics wouldn't see right through this bullshit?

 

I like how these articles aren't about how Oliver/Felicity are a bad couple. They think they're a good couple, they just don't like the drama. So that makes me feel better for future seasons. Hopefully the writers learn that just because O/F are in a relationship, it doesn't mean they have to ALWAYS go through ridiculous drama.

[Starfish35]

Alan Sepinwall's short review of 408...

Review: 'Arrow' - 'Legends of Yesterday': Hawkman, Hawkgirl, and baby mama drama

By Alan Sepinwall | Wednesday, Dec 2, 2015 9:03 PM

http://www.hitfix.com/whats-alan-watching/review-arrow-legends-of-yesterday-hawkman-hawkgirl-and-baby-mama-drama

I liked that Sepinwall replied in the comments to someone who was complaining about Olicity and saying they wished they'd done a Xander and Buffy with them:

But if they did that, guess who Oliver's primary love interest would be, with all the increased screen time that comes along with that: Laurel.

So be glad Rickards so impressed the creators that they promoted her above Cassidy in importance to the series.

[KenyaJ]

I like how these articles aren't about how Oliver/Felicity are a bad couple. They think they're a good couple, they just don't like the drama. So that makes me feel better for future seasons. Hopefully the writers learn that just because O/F are in a relationship, it doesn't mean they have to ALWAYS go through ridiculous drama.

 

I know the writers were already writing BabyMamaDrama before the season premiered, so there was no way to gauge audience response before going down that road. But I wonder if they started having "oh shit" moments when so many reviews mentioned how nice it was to have Olicity as a happy, stable thing in the background of each episode and when even former naysayers said they didn't mind the way Olicity was being handled?

[wonderwall]

I know the writers were already writing BabyMamaDrama before the season premiered, so there was no way to gauge audience response before going down that road. But I wonder if they started having "oh shit" moments when so many reviews mentioned how nice it was to have Olicity as a happy, stable thing in the background of each episode and when even former naysayers said they didn't mind the way Olicity was being handled?

 

I honestly think/hope they're scrambling in the writers room to fix their fuck up and be more careful in terms of their relationship (I think they're writing episode 15/16 now?)

[AyChihuahua]

I honestly think/hope they're scrambling in the writers room to fix their fuck up and be more careful in terms of their relationship (I think they're writing episode 15/16 now?)

I think there's a decent chance that they'll get them back together more quickly than they planned, and possibly tone down any recriminations in unfilmed/unedited episodes.  I also think it's a little less likely that Oliver will do anything with BM, although I bet they planned something.  BUT, the problem is the lying with resulting entirely justified breakup are already written and filmed and probably edited and everything else.  They're done.  Oliver is a lying sack of shit, that's just not fixable with where they are with the current episodes.

[bijoux]

I honestly think/hope they're scrambling in the writers room to fix their fuck up and be more careful in terms of their relationship (I think they're writing episode 15/16 now?)

Here's hoping.

[wonderwall]

Here's hoping.

 

Bad news here though is that they won't fix said fuck up until maybe episode 17... So.....................

[kes0704]

SA has said before that he doesn't mind if people hate Oliver or love him, he just doesn't want to see apathy because that means as an audience we no longer care what happens to the character.

I think that the people involved in the show have seriously miscalculated how the audience would respond to this storyline. I don't think they ever thought the people would be as angry and disgusted as they are right now. They have essentially destroyed an element of the show that was loved in Olicity, torn it apart and tainted it forever for a lot of people. I have zero sympathy for Oliver and now consider him to be too stupid to care about.

To quote the writers of the show "you don't trust me, you never will" if you thought I needed something so contrived to maintain my level of interest and keep watching. Felicity deserves better, I deserve better and Oliver deserves a punch in the face.

Edited December 4, 2015 by kes0704