The Starling City Times: News and Media about Arrow

[Mrs. de Winter]

59 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

I'm thinking scapegoat,  especially since we don't know where she's moved on to.

I feel like I read WM has another show in development - and I think it is with GB and another network.  Although it was announced late last year so it may be DOA.  She has worked with GB on several shows, so perhaps she wants to focus more on developing new shows and writing and it was amicable and she is moving to something that will be announced soon.  

Part of it could also be financial in that they can no longer support two show runners.  It would also be a somewhat lower risk way for Beth to get hands on experience - if the show goes off air next year it will be more from age than anything else.   

[BkWurm1]

1 hour ago, Mrs. de Winter said:

I feel like I read WM has another show in development - and I think it is with GB and another network.  Although it was announced late last year so it may be DOA.  She has worked with GB on several shows, so perhaps she wants to focus more on developing new shows and writing and it was amicable and she is moving to something that will be announced soon.  

Part of it could also be financial in that they can no longer support two show runners.  It would also be a somewhat lower risk way for Beth to get hands on experience - if the show goes off air next year it will be more from age than anything else.   

I recall something about another show as well.  Whether she happily is leaving for that or not, I hope she does ok.  I really feel like 4a was as good as it was because of her initial influence.  It went off the rails but MG's influence was clearly all over a lot of those choices like insisting Oliver had no choice but to lie to Felicity.  Same thing with season five, so many of the really bad things we could trace to outside influence and interference.  This year we know MG has been really stretched thin but still the most stupid stuff has come out of his mouth.  It has his pattern of gotcha all over it. 

So yeah, I'm ready to try something new but I have a hard time placing the blame for season 6 solely on WM's shoulders since the biggest issues have been the overlying plot and relentless drive to an endpoint that doesn't make sense and of course the brilliant idea to not really use Cayden James or set up Diaz.  If that was her choice, then I see where she'd get the flack but both really feel like crap she'd have gotten stuck with before the season ever started.  

[Mary0360]

5 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I recall something about another show as well.  Whether she happily is leaving for that or not, I hope she does ok.  I really feel like 4a was as good as it was because of her initial influence.  It went off the rails but MG's influence was clearly all over a lot of those choices like insisting Oliver had no choice but to lie to Felicity.  Same thing with season five, so many of the really bad things we could trace to outside influence and interference.  This year we know MG has been really stretched thin but still the most stupid stuff has come out of his mouth.  It has his pattern of gotcha all over it. 

So yeah, I'm ready to try something new but I have a hard time placing the blame for season 6 solely on WM's shoulders since the biggest issues have been the overlying plot and relentless drive to an endpoint that doesn't make sense and of course the brilliant idea to not really use Cayden James or set up Diaz.  If that was her choice, then I see where she'd get the flack but both really feel like crap she'd have gotten stuck with before the season ever started.  

Yeah I definitely think blame should be spread to more then just Wendy. I think the problem lies in the fact that they write to reach tent poles in the season rather then write for the characters, more often then not.  I think many people up to possibly Berlanti himself, probably have a hand in that. 

 

Here's hoping Beth might be able to let episodes and characters breath more and write less to plot points being met, but since she has been heavily involved since season one she could also be more of the same. But I guess time will tell. 

[TrueMyth]

I'm excited for what Beth might bring. But I am conflicted because I'd normally abbreviate her as BS according to my normal conventions, but I already use BS for Black Siren because I refuse to call her "Laurel."  Maybe I'll need to just call her "Siren."

[lemotomato]

If there's anything I learned from season 4B and the casting decisions in season 5 and 6, it's that showrunners have far less power when the show is controlled by several entities. In Arrow's case, the writers and EPs have to write the show catering to the demands of not just the CW, but also WB and DC. I hope that Beth as showrunner changes things positively, but as to how extensive those changes will be... I don't know.

[SleepDeprived]

I was about to go to sleep when I randomly remembered that Beth was the "writer on set" during 3x20 and I think it was said that she gave some input, as well, to Emily and Stephen while they were filming what eventually became the most-watched Arrow scene on Youtube ever (that ended up on porn sites, too. Lol). From what I can remember, Beth was on "bra duty" that night. Heh. Is it safe to assume that some scenes of S7 might finally take full advantage of the 9pm time slot?

[BkWurm1]

1 hour ago, TrueMyth said:

I'm excited for what Beth might bring. But I am conflicted because I'd normally abbreviate her as BS according to my normal conventions, but I already use BS for Black Siren because I refuse to call her "Laurel."  Maybe I'll need to just call her "Siren."

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I think you already have your solution.  Keep the BS and just use Beth.  Four letters isn't so much a chore to write. 

[Chaser]

8 hours ago, lemotomato said:

If there's anything I learned from season 4B and the casting decisions in season 5 and 6, it's that showrunners have far less power when the show is controlled by several entities. In Arrow's case, the writers and EPs have to write the show catering to the demands of not just the CW, but also WB and DC. I hope that Beth as showrunner changes things positively, but as to how extensive those changes will be... I don't know.

This is when I start wondering about the break up of duties. Who comes up with the overall season arc? Who writes the outlines? 

[Primal Slayer]

Probably a collab between showrunner/Berlanti and then taken to the network for approval who then will request "we want to see this and this"

[KenyaJ]

9 hours ago, SleepDeprived said:

From what I can remember, Beth was on "bra duty" that night.

I never heard that before. Now Emily talking about how her "boobs were everywhere"  (at 2:26) makes me laugh even harder.  ?

Edited April 18, 2018 by KenyaJ

[BkWurm1]

To this day I still have never heard any other actors ever describe filming a sex scene as fun.  I love that both she and SA were like that.  I have to think that letting them be a part in planning it out had to have helped make them feel in control and less vulnerable than many actors must feel.  

[tv echo]

Only some nonspoilery portions are quoted below (spoilery portions are quoted in the Spoilers thread)...

Katie Cassidy Revisits Her Early Arrow Days ('I Took Life So Seriously'), Ponders Redemption for 'Evil' Laurel
By Matt Webb Mitovich / April 18 2018, 12:57 PM PDT
http://tvline.com/2018/04/18/arrow-season-6-interview-katie-cassidy-laurel-earth-two-redemption/

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TVLINE | Now we get to see Laurel’s wheels turning. One scene that stuck with me was when she was holed up in the cabin with Quentin (played by Paul Blackthorne), sitting on the couch, and then at one point you almost “flip a switch” and snark, “Thea’s right, Daddy” — and you realize she was playing him the whole time.
Right, right, right. I know what you’re talking about. The thing that I think is interesting about this character is I do feel like there is room for redemption in some aspect. However, we don’t know what her life has been like on Earth-Two; we know bits and pieces, and that’s what I think is interesting about playing this character, how we keep finding out more and more information.

I’ve built a backstory off of script analysis and character breakdown, and while it doesn’t always match up, that’s part of the fun of it, just creating and being able to play — and these writers and producers certainly have been willing to do that with me. This is the stuff I thrive off of. I just love strong female characters in general, not necessarily because, “She’s evil” or “Oh, because she’s good.” Yes, of course it’s fun to play evil, but it’s simply fun to play any different characters.
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TVLINE | Every time we start to think, “Hmm, maybe Quentin was right, maybe he’s getting to her,” the rug gets pulled right out from under us. That said, do you think that maybe there is a half of a half of a seed of something good inside this Laurel, that can be cultivated?
As I said before, I do think there’s room for redemption — although maybe, personally, I’m just too forgiving of a person. If someone killed [someone else], you can’t forgive that kind of stuff here on our Earth, but definitely I think there’s room for redemption. I think she has a lot of explaining to do and understanding, and yet…. She’s kind of a wild animal. It’s almost like inside of her there’s this wild animal in a cage that wants to come out, and she wants to let it out, but also I think that she’s sort of torn internally, because I don’t think she was born this way. I think things happened to her that made her this way.
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TVLINE | How would you describe Laurel’s dynamic with Diaz (Kirk Acevedo) ever since they formed this alliance of sorts at his weird little dojo?
He keeps her on her toes. He makes her surprise herself, doing things she didn’t necessarily expect. I think that there’s a magnetic sort of, like, fire between them. What that reads as, I think time will tell.
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TVLINE | Has it been difficult to be so mean to Paul [Blackthorne]?
Yes, but it’s also been so much fun. And I think that he quite enjoys watching the difference in my character. [Laughs] The scene where she comes in and is like [in dainty voice] “Hiiii, I’m Laurel Lance!”? So much fun.

You know what it is? Looking back, from when we started the pilot to the end of Season 4, I took it so seriously — as you should, obviously, in continuing to be a professional. But I think also just life I took so seriously, and I was just…. I mean, I’m very dedicated, and I gave everything I had, but it’s fun when Black Siren makes jokes about that Laurel. It’s kind of like making fun of myself, and that’s been a blast

Edited April 19, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Fundamentals - Arrow Music Notes 6x18
Austencello   April 18, 2018
https://austencello.tumblr.com/post/173079073949/fundamentals-arrow-music-notes-6x18

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10 hours earlier, Felicity parent-trapped John and Oliver together trying to get them to work together again.  As John arrives, the brass chords play from “Trust and Verify”(1x11).  This track was the main theme during their painful fight in the previous episode.  After they throw jabs at each other, the strings from that theme return as Oliver tells John that he has earned a reprieve after listening to his advice for 6 years.  A theme that emphasized growing trust now accompanies a tear in their relationship.
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Oliver hears a noise that resembles banging on a pipe (a repeating indication something is off) and turns around to see Felicity in front of him.  This Felicity tells him that they need space as high electronics play.  These are the same sounds used in the background of the piano melody in “Someone you Love” (3x12 - “I don’t want to be a woman you love”) and “Let Each Other Go” (4x16 - giving back the ring after the fake wedding) evoking those same memories and feelings when she walks away from Oliver as she declares that Oliver showed William the man he really is and leaves, Oliver’s worst nightmare coming true.
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The banging increases (this pipe sound matches the Vertigo music in 3x01 “Greatest Fear” and several fighting tracks from Season 1 like “Damaged”) as does the dissonant high strings to reveal Adrian Chase, supposedly alive and well to the shock of Oliver.  As Chase shoots Oliver, his glissando strings “Prometheus” (5x01) begin.  These come back against the Arrow horn as they fight.  Chase continues to taunt Oliver that he will come back for Felicity and William and Oliver is left in the same dilemma as 5x23 whether to kill Chase.  This time he does and when he breaks Chase’s neck, the music from 1x01 plays “City in Ruins.”  This is the electronic motif when he says “no-one can know my secret” and kills his kidnappers in the exact same neck hold (the same happened in 5x01.)
*  *  *
Oliver gets into the elevator on the way to meet the council only to enter the Queen mansion.  The strings, hints of hammered dulcimer and flute play the music from the pilot when he entered the Queen mansion and sees Thea.  Now he sees a room full of memory for his family before he turns and sees pre-Gambit Laurel.  As he interacts with this version of Laurel asking about his upcoming trip, “Loss and Regrets” (1x01) plays.  This is the theme for Oliver and Laurel since their first encounter when he gets back from the Island, with Laurel declaring she wished he would rot in hell longer than 5 years for what he had done.  Oliver will always have a deep regret for how he destroyed the Lance family in choosing Sara to leave with him and cheating on Laurel.  Throughout the whole scene, a high pitched dissonance note plays to remind that this is not reality but another hallucination.
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Several different Arrow string patterns play as Felicity discovers that Oliver has gone to the precinct and runs to stop him.  Meanwhile guitar harmonics play as Quentin tries to stop Oliver dressed in his old Hood costume. Felicity enters the precinct to see the aftermath of the fight shown at the beginning of the episode.  High distorted electronics with a few interspersed low bass notes and percussion emphasize the danger that both Felicity and Oliver are in.  As Oliver believes that Felicity is still a hallucination, brass and higher electronics alternate as Felicity in the reality conflicts with what he has been seeing.  Chase tries to convince him not to listen and give up his fight with a percussive repeating note and the crazy distorted notes continue as Oliver admits he does not know if she is real.  Felicity touches him and asks him to listen to his heart, as the Olicity theme “The One I Love” (2x23) plays in the strings, bringing him back to reality in time for them to escape to the Arrow strings.

Edited April 19, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Go to link for details and how to enter contest...

Arrow Contest: Win Felicity Smoak’s Necklace
April 19, 2018 Emma Loggins
https://www.fanbolt.com/91644/arrow-contest-win-felicity-smoaks-necklace/

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Are you a fan of CW’s Arrow? If so, we have just the contest for you! Peggy Li reached out to us wanting to host a contest for our readers – and we’re thrilled to be giving away this beautiful triangle necklace that was worn on the series on Emily Bett Rickards’ Felicity Smoak!

Necklaces like this are perfect for layering for a day at work or a night out! And there’s even a 1-triangle version which was featured on Riverdale that we’re also giving away here! You can enter the contest directly below and also, check out these beauties here on Peggy Li’s site!

(Note this wasn’t the exact necklace that Emily wore on the show – but it is the same design!)
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Edited April 19, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

'Arrow': Can Oliver and Diggle's Friendship Be Fixed After Their Latest Fight? 
April 18, 2018  Meredith Jacobs
http://www.buddytv.com/articles/arrow/arrow-can-oliver-and-diggles-f-68378.aspx

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What started out as a fight about who's the Green Arrow (which Oliver called "out of character" for his friend) led to cruel words and punches, ending with Diggle deciding that if he's going to figure out what the best version of himself is, it can't be with Oliver. That conclusion is fine. Diggle leaving the team isn't the problem. Everything leading up to it is, and that's why Arrow has its work cut out to get the series' best bromance back on track. 
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The problem is that in "Brothers in Arms," it was all too easy to only see and take Oliver's side of the fight. Even Diggle didn't know why he was so angry at first, until Lyla suggested that he maybe felt that some of the things that had happened recently (the team split, Rene in the hospital, Diaz) wouldn't have if he'd still been wearing the hood.

What followed was Diggle blaming Oliver for things that weren't even his fault: for not saving the Vigilante (when they instead went after a bomb that would've destroyed the entire city), for Diaz in control (when he showed up while Diggle was the Green Arrow and John bought drugs from him), for putting the newbies under surveillance (when Rene had betrayed him) and even for Rene being in the hospital (when Rene went after Oliver with an axe.) 

Later, Diggle said that he hadn't questioned the chain of command even when his heart told him there was a better way, but that's on him, not on Oliver. We didn't see Diggle push back in a significant way about any of the decisions he brought up from this season that had to have contributed to this happening now. All of this could even be walked back and forgiven pretty easily (because this is, after all, a TV show and logic need not always apply), but that wasn't all of it.
*  *  *
If these two men can't even talk civilly or agree to work together to go after Diaz (or even discuss intel), neither is putting the city first -- and that was even part of Diggle's argument, that Oliver's not doing this 100% for the city. At that moment, Diggle wasn't thinking of the city but about his feelings regarding Oliver's leadership. 
*  *  *
Yes, Oliver and Diggle's bromance can easily be back to what it was, whether it's by the end of the season or next year because this is a TV show. They can forget about lines that were crossed, words that were said and punches that were thrown. And they should, because Oliver and Diggle is one of the best relationships on Arrow.
*  *  *
While it was easy to see how the two would reconcile the other times, that's not necessarily the case here, and that's because of the question mark surrounding Diggle's thought process and what he feels he needs to do right now. He has a problem with Oliver's leadership, but Oliver's the Green Arrow. This is Arrow. He's going to be the leader. And frankly, it's not Oliver or his leadership that has driven people away this season; it's everyone else's feelings and problems.

Edited April 19, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

This review is for 618 (despite the error in the headline)...

Arrow S06 E17: Drug-induced visions, talking off the ledge, and a simpler focus for Arrow S07?
APRIL 19, 2018, BY RICHARD NEAL, 
http://cw33.com/2018/04/19/arrow-s06-e17-drug-induced-visions-talking-off-the-ledge-and-a-simpler-focus-for-arrow-s07/

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Hello, Team Arrow! It's Richard from Zeus Comics!
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Lots of back and forth during the drug-induced visions, including Earth One Laurel Lance, Team Outsiders with an oddly masked Wilddog, and an injured Raisa. Despite the nature of fantasy conversations sucking up time for actual plot movement, this was one of Arrow's strongest episodes this season.
*  *  *
With Oliver about to get lost in a firefight with Diaz and the force, Felicity talks him off the ledge in a touching and endearing moment. Oliver decides his best course of action is to disband any remaining portions of Team Arrow and Overwatch and take the Green Arrow back to a simpler focus. Is this setting the stage for Season 07 next year?
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Diaz' eliminates loose threads, but does that include William and Felicity? It's a new Arrow, The Dragon!

Edited April 19, 2018 by tv echo

[BkWurm1]

I'm disappointed (and disturbed) by the number of positive headlines about the episode but I appreciated this review even while they seem to like KA.  (They renamed the episode Paper Dragon.)  

https://hiddenremote.com/2018/04/20/arrow-season-6-episode-19/
 

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Still, for all the added texture this installment gave to this season’s antagonists, it didn’t succeed in making Diaz a more interesting villain.

In fact, “The Dragon” actually made Diaz less interesting. Previously, all the character had going for him was Kirk Acevedo’s nuanced performance and the mystery of his motivations. As opposed to most of Arrow’s Big Bads, Diaz didn’t come to town with any connection to Oliver Queen. He just wanted Star City as his own. Not knowing why he was doing what he was doing gave the character some mystique.  Unfortunately, his reasons for pursuing that ambition are surprisingly pat. He’s basically the Arrowverse version of Tony Montana, only with less emotionally complexity. And with that reveal, Diaz feels like a paper dragon and all the time dedicated to him feels wasted.

***

So with all of his cards on the table, Diaz stands revealed as a pretty boring character. He was abused as a child and that trauma turned him into an adult who is fixated on controlling everything. His desire to become the kingpin of Star City is just an attempt to create a world where he is all-powerful. And while he has been fairly successful so far, his reckless and obsessive behavior in this episode suggests that motivating compulsion will be his undoing. Meh. Using pop psychology trope to give a villain backstory feels incredibly lazy, especially when Arrow has previously produced multilayered villains like Deathstroke, Damien Darhk, and Prometheus.

If Diaz’s core motivation had just a bit more textured, I would’ve really liked this episode. If he wanted to make a world where no child had to endure what he did, I could feel sympathy for him. Or if he was a Killmonger like class warrior who wanted to rid the world of feckless elites, I could empathize with him. Hell, if he gave an “I’m in the empire business” style megalomaniacal monolog, I could’ve admired his swagger and single-mindedness. Now I just want Oliver to put him out of his misery as quickly as possible.

***

On the heroic side of town, Felicity told Oliver she was terrified of losing him now that he shut her out and he effectively blew her off.

***

And while extremely brief, the parts of the episode dealing with Oliver and company were very interesting. Clearly, Felicity decision to stand by her man no matter what is weighing on her. And she’s right to be worried. Oliver’s inability to see to acknowledging that operating alone makes him more vulnerable not less is a serious problem.

 

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I also found this analysis of BS's reactions interesting.  

 

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Watching Black Siren go from being somewhat impressed by Diaz to regarding him as another Zoom was interesting. It was also compelling to see that character outside of Team Arrow and all of their attachments to the ghost of Laurel. While “The Dragon” stopped short of suggesting that she was a good person underneath it all, it did suggest that’s she’s smarter than she appears. She recognizes Diaz’s addiction to his rage will ultimately be self-destructive. That piece of information might lead to forming an alliance with Team Arrow, for reasons self-preservation if nothing else.

Edited April 20, 2018 by BkWurm1

[tv echo]

EW reviewer gave 619 a grade of B-...

Arrow recap: 'The Dragon'
CHANCELLOR AGARD April 19, 2018 AT 10:20 PM EDT
http://ew.com/recap/arrow-season-6-episode-19/

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Oliver is almost nowhere to be found in tonight’s episode, “The Dragon.” Instead, the episode’s titular villain takes center stage in an hour that’s supposed to flesh him out a bit and get us to care about his villainy. I’m not entirely sure if the episode succeeds in that regard because, at the end of the day, the main point of it is to also introduce a new evil criminal organization for the final stretch of episodes.
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However, Diaz won’t be satisfied. As the episode ends, he visits the guy who bullied him when he was an orphan and sets him on fire. Thus, he has slayed the one responsible for creating the Dragon in the first place. This needlessly vengeful move worries Laurel, and you get the sense that she’s starting to wonder if she made the right decision by hooking up with Diaz professionally and romantically. From our point of view, whatever sympathy we were supposed to feel for Diaz is obliterated as this latest murder reminds us he’s just a monster.
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Meanwhile, Felicity, who was fired from Team Arrow last week, doubles down on Helix in order to distract herself from how worried she is about Oliver in the field on his own. On the one hand, this leads her and Curtis to bury the hatchet and start working together again, but on the other hand, this plan doesn’t work because she can’t escape how scared and powerless she feels. Emily Bett Rickards gave a heartbreaking performance, especially when Felicity thinks Oliver died in an explosion while out in the field.

Obviously, Oliver didn’t die, as Felicity discovers when she rushes back to his apartment to see if he’s there. Oliver selfishly ignores her concerns about him being out there alone and makes her the same promise he made William: He’ll always come home. Unlike Diaz, Felicity isn’t able to kill her dragon (a.k.a. conquer her fear) and must instead sit uneasily with it as Oliver, well, is Oliver.

Edited April 20, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

A.V. Club reviewer gave 619 a grade of B (and compared it to 520-Underneath?!)...

Arrow continues to course-correct with some Diaz dragon drama
Allison Shoemaker   April 20, 2018
https://tv.avclub.com/arrow-continues-to-course-correct-with-some-diaz-dragon-1825408790

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The 20th episode of Arrow’s fifth season, “Underneath,” did something a little unusual. Adrian Chase detonated an EMP, trapping Felicity and Oliver in the bunker; the EMP also deactivated the implant in Felicity’s spine, taking away her ability to walk. There was a storyline going on outside the bunker, too, as we watched the rest of Team Arrow try to get into the bunker to rescue their friends. All that was good, but it wasn’t the reason “Underneath” worked. As Alasdair Wilkins wrote at the time:

"'Underneath' strikes just the right balance between taut, self-contained thriller and character piece, with Oliver and Felicity’s ever worsening situation forcing them to confront uncomfortable truths without ever feeling too contrived."
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To be perfectly clear, “The Dragon” isn’t working at the same level as “Underneath.” We know these characters a lot less well than we know Oliver and Felicity—and that includes Not-Laurel, since Arrow seems terribly disinterested in actually giving her a personality beyond that of someone who looks like but is definitely not Laurel. But the unusual thing that “Underneath” did is something that “The Dragon,” the 19th episode of Arrow’s sixth season, also does: It slows the hell down with a story that’s languidly paced by its very nature, and uses the opportunity to focus on the people who populate its world.

In the case of “Underneath,” the results were pretty great. Here, it’s a mixed bag, but nevertheless, a story that’s inconsistent but cares about the emotional lives of its characters is preferable to one that’s simply checking boxes, as so much of this season has been. It also makes perfectly clear that, whatever the struggles with the development of Ricardo Diaz as a villain, none of them should be laid at Kirk Acevedo’s feet. Given the time and space to use that air of quiet menace to his advantage, he’s incredibly watchable, and for the first time since that his odd, off-putting reveal as the Arrow Big Bad to end all Big Bads, I believed that Diaz was worth all the fuss. By episode’s end, that power would be undermined, but still. Let’s chalk this one up as a win.

Another win: a sub-plot that’s clear, straightforward, only a little bit frustrating, and which also calls back to “Underneath.” Whether it was due to shooting schedules, budget concerns, or just because it was written this way, the B-story of “The Dragon” is incredibly precise: What happens when Felicity, now off Team Arrow, tries to get back to work with Curtis? They’re awkward, then get down to business. It’s not the business of science that matters so much here, as the business of being people who care about and confide in each other, as Felicity eventually does. This gradual move past complicated social bullshit mirrors that of Oliver and Felicity’s in “Underneath,” but more importantly, it echoes the issues at play in that earlier story. Felicity doesn’t trust Oliver to take care of himself, not entirely, just as Oliver didn’t trust Felicity enough to take her lead.

(Of course, Felicity is right to worry, though Oliver was wrong; setting aside that there is only one Oliver up against a whole city’s worth of villains, Arrow has also argued from the very beginning that Oliver Queen needs people around him. But that’s a conversation for another time.)
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... That said, as much as I enjoy the sneering, campy Katie Cassidy, it’s nice to see her in a story that’s more subdued and simple, reacting to her adventure with Diaz and what she learns about him. Her final moments also feel like the beginning of an end-game for the season, as we now know that this Laurel finds the idea of burning one’s childhood tormentor alive to be in poor taste. There’s no reason for that reaction to be feigned, leaving at least one confirmed moment of honesty in a season full of stuff we’re designed to doubt.
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Of course, the final moments weaken the foundation as a whole. It’s totally possible that that’s the intention here, that we’re meant to see Diaz as a person who can be careful, logical, calculating, and brutal for years before wasting his time and energy murdering his childhood bully for no reason other than revenge and being “not a loser.” If somehow that act leads to his undoing, I’ll gladly take back every complaint I have about this otherwise well-handled piece of character study. ..

Edited April 20, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

IGN reviewer would've preferred having no members of Team Arrow in 619 and also doesn't seem to realize that BS has her own sadistic streak - see bolded language below (eyerolls galore while reading this review)...

ARROW: "THE DRAGON" REVIEW
BY JESSE SCHEEDEN   19 APR 2018
http://www.ign.com/articles/2018/04/20/arrow-the-dragon-review

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“The Dragon” certainly had the novelty factor going for it. This is the rare Arrow episode to feature almost no scenes with Oliver Queen. Instead, Ricardo Diaz hogged the spotlight as we got a better feel for what he wants, what motivates him and who he was before becoming “The Dragon.” In fact, other than a few brief scenes featuring Felicity and Curtis, this episode was very laser-focused on Diaz and Laurel.
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All of this further illustrates how Arrow has improved so dramatically because it’s found a better sense of focus. No longer is the show being tugged between all these characters and competing subplots. These last few episodes have worked so well because they’ve tended to pick one story and stuck to it. We can only hope that lesson sinks in and continues to inform the approach for Season 7.

Above all, “The Dragon” illustrates what sets Diaz apart from every Arrow villain that’s come before. He doesn’t care one bit about Oliver Queen or the Green Arrow. They were just a nuisance to be rid of. Diaz is, in many ways, a very simple and straightforward character. He craves the power and respect he was denied as a child. But that simplicity is also what makes him work. After all this time, it’s a welcome change of pace to have a villain who’s neither motivated by a hatred of the Green Arrow nor by a desire to destroy Star City.
*  *  *
Kirk Acevedo certainly had no trouble in dominating the screen in the absence of the majority of the main cast. There’s a gravity and a sense of danger to his performance, particularly now that this even darker side is coming to the forefront. Even Laurel seemed to benefit from a little distance from Star City. I’ve noted in past reviews how tired I am of the constant back-and-forth as far as her allegiances are concerned. I enjoy Laurel more as an outright villain who has just enough decency remaining to cringe when Diaz’s sadistic streak rears itself. The two make for an entertaining pair.
*  *  *
If anything, I would have rather this episode had ignored Team Arrow entirely. The Felicity/Curtis subplot didn’t really add much. That last scene in particular felt like it came out of nowhere with the abrupt shift away from Diaz to Felicity freaking out about Ollie’s whereabouts. I’d rather that time had been devoted to fleshing out more of Diaz’s past. A flashback establishing where he learned his martial arts skills or how he began his rise to power would have been nice.
*  *  *
It's heartening to see that Arrow's recent resurgence isn't just a brief fluke. "The Dragon" continued the tighter, more focused approach that's benefited the series so much in recent weeks. It added new layers to Ricardo Diaz and proved that Arrow can function just fine without its main cast of heroes. Still, the show needs to work quickly to establish a clear endgame for Season 6.

Edited April 20, 2018 by tv echo

[Featherhat]

Ugh I was hoping for a critical drumming so we never have to go through this nonsense again but sigh. They continue to double down on the noobs even though it's been a terribly received storyline so I doubt it would have made a difference anyway. 

[BkWurm1]

12 minutes ago, tv echo said:

This gradual move past complicated social bullshit mirrors that of Oliver and Felicity’s in “Underneath,” but more importantly, it echoes the issues at play in that earlier story. Felicity doesn’t trust Oliver to take care of himself, not entirely, just as Oliver didn’t trust Felicity enough to take her lead.

As annoyed as I was with Oliver in this episode, I honestly don't think it's about a lack of trust on his part and it sure isn't on Felicity's.  She trusts Oliver's skill level but she knows he's not invincible. And whatever reasons are pushing Oliver to go it alone seem to be him retreating not from her but from anyone while out in the field.  Firing Watchtower was just a side effect of him deciding he must be a crap leader.  I think pushing Felicity aside probably had more to do with him not wanting to risk pushing her away like everyone else.  Still monumentally stupid and even selfish but not about trust.  

Edited April 20, 2018 by BkWurm1

[tv echo]

THE LATEST ARROW TAKES A DEEP DIVE INTO THE FASCINATING PSYCHE OF RICARDO DIAZ
Trent Moore April 19, 2018
http://www.syfy.com/syfywire/the-latest-arrow-takes-a-deep-dive-into-the-fascinating-psyche-of-ricardo-diaz

Quote

The reason for it all, though, is simple. Diaz is simply trying to prove he’s not still that loser kid who gets beat up at night when the nun’s aren’t looking. He’s spent his entire life trying to process and move past that trauma, and he’s sees the only way out as trying to find respect in the eyes of others, even if he has to take it by force. It was arguably one of the better episodes of the season, a fact made even stranger by the fact that Oliver, Felicity and the gang were barely in it at all. Kirk Acevedo has had to carry Diaz on sheer charm up to this point (luckily the guy has buckets of it), but now we finally know what makes this guy tick.
*  *  *
*That theme of powerlessness also carried over into the story of Felicity this week,  as she grappled with a sense of helplessness after seeing a news report about an explosion with the Green Arrow nearby. With Oliver taking his mission back to basics, she’s now on the outside looking in while he’s in the field. It was a compelling story, and makes sense, but seemed to be shortchanged a bit by the focus on Diaz’s story. It’s wrapped up with Oliver promising to come home, much like he’d done in the past with William. Compelling stuff, but still rushed.
*  *  *
*After working both sides the past several weeks, it’s looking more and more like Black Siren might fall on Diaz’s side when push eventually comes to shove. She also has some legit chemistry with Diaz, which was a bit surprising.

[BkWurm1]

1 minute ago, tv echo said:

Kirk Acevedo has had to carry Diaz on sheer charm up to this point (luckily the guy has buckets of it), but now we finally know what makes this guy tick.

He has buckets of something, but charm?  Do they know what charm means?

[tv echo]

More eyerolls from me...

Arrow: Scars Last Forever
By Matt Ross, April 19th, 2018
https://www.dccomics.com/blog/2018/04/19/arrow-scars-last-forever

Quote

For starters, I’ve been a fan of Kirk Acevedo’s work as an actor for a long time. He’s always done a good job at making me believe in his roles and characters. While I was super pumped when I saw he would be in Arrow, I had some reservations. Not because of him, but more so how the show would or could use him. He’s portrayed some intense characters before and since Arrow isn’t on some premium channel, where you can unleash a bit more, I didn’t know how wild things could get.

Then I watched tonight and realized what he and Arrow can do together.
*  *  *
The best way to describe tonight was that it was a slow burn that eventually got to the point where it just absolutely ignited—literally.
*  *  *
I enjoyed the idea of having Laurel tag along with him this episode, too. It was a good way to illustrate just how nuts Diaz is. Look, Laurel is bad, I have no doubt about it. She’s done some terrible things, but when you see her reactions to Diaz’s behavior, it kind of makes you even more repulsed by him. I really think the escalation of his madness tonight was the combo of Laurel’s reactions, Acevedo’s acting and the pacing and writing of the episode.
*  *  *
I’ll be honest. I had to turn away at the end there. That was intense and pretty shocking. It makes me wonder, though…why didn’t Diaz take that guy out long ago? Why now? It kind of feels like that moment was a “rebirth” of sorts for Diaz—like he was set “free” from his childhood pain. It’s scary to think where he’ll go now…

Edited April 20, 2018 by tv echo

[apinknightmare]

3 minutes ago, tv echo said:

She’s done some terrible things, but when you see her reactions to Diaz’s behavior, it kind of makes you even more repulsed by him. I really think the escalation of his madness tonight was the combo of Laurel’s reactions, Acevedo’s acting and the pacing and writing of the episode.

It's so lulzy to me that they're selling BS having some sort of a line in an episode where she helped blow a guy up and canary cried a table leg into some guy's chest. 

[tv echo]

Arrow Episode Guide: Season 6, Episode 19 - The Dragon
Starman   April 19, 2018
http://www.mygeekygeekyways.com/2018/04/arrow-episode-guide-season-6-episode-19.html

Quote

So, Quentin isn't going to question Black Siren disappearing for several days? Granting that he's probably got his hands full running the city in the wake of Ollie's impeachment, you'd think this is something he'd be trying to stay up on.

You'd also think it's also something Dinah would be doing, particularly since she doesn't have her job as a cop keeping her busy anymore.

The fight scene in which Black Siren attacks the FBI agents has got to be one of the worst in the show's history. Ignoring the poor lighting and odd camera angles (presumably used to hide the face of Katie Cassidy's stunt double), we clearly see the stunt men playing the agents discharge their guns inches away from Black Siren without hitting her!
*  *  *
The final scene, in which Black Siren is apparently meant to be disturbed by Diaz setting his childhood bully on fire - does not ring true at all. And for once it's not because of Katie Cassidy's inability to show any emotions beyond annoyance and dull surprise. It's because it does not make a lick of sense for Black Siren - who has worked for three obsessive sociopaths without complaint before Diaz and spent the better part of this episode complaining about not being allowed to kill for the hell of it - suddenly having reservations about setting a man on fire.

Edited April 20, 2018 by tv echo

[ladylaw99]

I know everyone has their own opinion on these episodes but whatever these critics are smoking I would have appreciated some last night and maybe I would understand what was so compelling about this episode because I don't get it!!!  

[tv echo]

Oh no, Laura, not you too!...

Could Arrow Redeem Black Siren In Season 6?
BY LAURA HURLEY    APRIL 19, 2018
https://www.cinemablend.com/television/2406001/could-arrow-redeem-black-siren-in-season-6

Quote

Perhaps no character on Arrow has had a more bizarre arc than Dinah Laurel Lance. The Earth-1 version of the character was a lawyer who became Black Canary after a few boxing lessons, then was killed by none other than Damien Darhk. Actress Katie Cassidy stuck around, however, thanks to the Earth-2 Laurel known as the villainous Black Siren. Black Siren is still around in Star City, and she's currently teamed up with Ricardo Diaz as he escalates his reign of terror on the innocent people of the city.
*  *  *
Interestingly, the case can be made after "The Dragon" that either Black Siren only needs one big push to go straight again or that she's past the point of no return. She did show some hesitation as Diaz escalated his brutality, and I suppose it speaks well to her that she draws a line at burning people alive. Black Siren isn't quite as dark and vicious as Ricardo Diaz.
*  *  *
Or maybe Black Siren will live and die as a villain. I've actually preferred Katie Cassidy as Black Siren than Black Canary, partially because we already had a proto-Black Canary in Sara and partially because Cassidy just seems to have a lot of fun with the role. We'll have to wait and see what happens.

Edited April 20, 2018 by tv echo

[ladylaw99]

@tv echo you should be compensated for having to read these reviews.

As always thanks

[Cleanqueen]

I viewed BS's disgust as more of her being afraid that the man she sleeps with would literally burn a man alive...it's one thing to be evil yourself but it's another to see it truly manifesting in someone else

[tv echo]

Arrow, ‘The Dragon’: What Happens When Villains Disappear for Days at a Time Finally Explained
BY CRAIG WACK · APRIL 20, 2018
http://oohlo.com/2018/04/20/arrow-the-dragon-what-happens-when-villains-disappear-for-days-at-a-time-finally-explained/

Quote

We’re entering the home stretch of the season, Arrow should be building to an explosive crescendo, but to this point, the show’s current big bad is so ill-defined they needed to devote an entire episode to what is essentially an origin story. Problem is, the episode taught us nothing we didn’t already assume. Here’s everything you need to know about the latest episode of Arrow:
*  *  *
What’s the scoop:  We pick up Diaz and Black Siren (wearing her traveling wig) in Bludhaven, waiting to set up a meeting with a crime organization called The Quadrant (motto, we’re one better than a triad). Not-Laurel is wondering why they don’t just storm the place because she wants new places to lean on things and crack wise. Diaz preaches patience. Through flashbacks, we learn that Diaz was an orphan, and bullied by an older boy in the orphanage. I assume this is where he learned determination and patience, but it’s hard to tell exactly. Once they meet up with a junior mobster whose daddy has a seat at the table, Diaz is sent on a series of menial tasks which Diaz accepts with Siren taunting, asking why he lets them treat him like a dog.
*  *  *
Sex and the Olicity:  Ollie has been reduced to a cameo in this episode. Curtis gets a news alert about shots fired and an explosion across town. There’s news tape of Ollie on the scene, but no word if he got out in time. This sends Felicity into a panic spiral. She rushes to their apartment and nervously tries to locate Oliver on her tablet. The search is fruitless at first, before Ollie all but strolls in from the kitchen with a chicken leg, asking what all the hubbub is about. Seeing Oliver, Felicity pretty much experiences every emotion at once. While happy to see him again, she also makes it clear that she does not want to feel that helpless again. Ollie tells Felicity the same promise he told William: His love for her will always mean he will come home. So, don’t expect Ollie to come home from a mission at some point between now and the end of the season.
*  *  *
What about the action: Not much in the way of huge action set pieces. Sure there was some gangster style gunplay (Remember when this show tried to take a stand about guns? Good times, good times.). We got to see Not-Laurel in action acting as Diaz’s backup after the junior gangster tries to double-cross Diaz. Thanks to a bulletproof vest (which did no good on cops in the scene before) and dumb luck Diaz survives the murder attempt, kidnaps the junior gangster, and finds out where The Quadrant’s clubhouse is. Diaz straps a bomb to the gangster and sends him through the door to create enough of an opening to crash the meeting. There are a lot of threats, speechifiying, and promises of big money to be made, before Diaz finally loses patience, shoots the senior gangster and triumphantly takes a seat at the table. Why did Diaz go through all this? Sure, it helps his plans in Star City, but for him it’s more about the pink ring he won, which makes him crime lord, a somebody, instead of the bullied boy who no one loved. The first thing Daiz does with this new station in life is track down his childhood tormentor, who is a working class schlub, then take him to the top of a tall building and burn him alive.
*  *  *
Last impressions: Diaz’s character needed some fleshing out, so the effort to do that is appreciated. However the results fell flat. Before this episode, I assumed his was a criminal who was really good at what he does. After this episode, Diaz is a criminal willing to grind and do the dirty work to be really good at what he does. There’s still not even a murky idea about what Diaz’s endgame is or why he is carrying a grudge against Oliver. How Black Siren fits into all of this is still unclear. She questioned Diaz every step of the way, but still gladly went along with everything he did. Once again you are getting the feeling that the writers still don’t know what to do with her. The most important piece of the episode feels like that promise Ollie made to Felicity. That sounds like foreshadowing to me and just the kind of scenario where Felicity gets all the folks angry at Ollie to band together to save his bacon, and by extension, the bacon of Star City.

Edited April 20, 2018 by tv echo

[Guest]

Quote

and proved that Arrow can function just fine without its main cast of heroes.

Uh, no it can't. 

I swear I watched a different episode to these people. 

[apinknightmare]

3 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

Uh, no it can't. 

I swear I watched a different episode to these people. 

The somewhat comforting thing is that the comment section - on EW and AV Club and SpoilerTV seems to be heavily rooted in favor of it being too little too late, and Diaz being a pretty weak character. 

[tv echo]

Arrow recap: All for a seat at the table
by Leah Smith   April 20, 2018
https://fansided.com/2018/04/20/arrow-recap-season-6-episode-19-dragon/

Quote

The good news is that the writers avoided connecting Diaz’s backstory to Oliver’s past. Unfortunately, the driving force behind all of Diaz’s actions is that he was bullied as a child and is seeking respect through gaining power.
*  *  *
Oliver, showing that he knows nothing about what Felicity really brings to Team Arrow, says there is not much difference between now and when she was Overwatch. He promised that he would always find a way to come home and she should not worry. Hopefully, in the next couple episodes, Oliver will be reminded that Felicity is a key reason to why Green Arrow has survived this long.

Edited April 20, 2018 by tv echo

[Chaser]

I think this is the first season where Oliver was smarter at the beginning. 

[tv echo]

Arrowverse Recaps: Supergirl 3x14, The Flash 4x18, Arrow 6x19
V Donovan    04/19/2018
https://popwrapped.com/arrowverse-recaps-supergirl-3x14-the-flash-4x18-arrow-6x19

Quote

Despite the title, this episode was pretty bad. Instead of focusing on lone wolf Oliver, it focused on Diaz and his activities. Perhaps an episode like this would have been cool last season because Adrian Chase was a pretty interesting villain, but this season, with a villain as boring as Diaz, it just did not float my boat. ... As revenge, he douses Jesse with lighter fluid and lights him up. Laurel is clearly uncomfortable with this but really makes no effort to stop the murder. 
*  *  *
Luckily, Diaz and Laurel weren't the only Arrow characters we saw this episode. In between Diaz's adventures, we saw Felicity and Curtis back to work on Helix. It's a little awkward given the OTA/NTA drama, but they talk it out a little, and Curtis is supportive when Felicity admits her worries for Oliver and his new solo attitude. Her worries are not eased as she watches the news and sees that the Green Arrow was at the scene of an explosion and is missing. When she can't reach Oliver, she hurries home in a panic, but Oliver is there and totally okay. Felicity can't help but express her stresses and feelings of helplessness to Oliver, but Oliver simply assures her that he'll always come back to her. This would be a nice sentiment if it were actually possible. He can't control things. He may not be able to always come back. I'm actually angry that Felicity and William are accepting this BS line from him. 

And that is the end of the episode. Pretty boring, eh? Yeah. The fact that Oliver didn't show up until the last ten minutes was a bad decision because Diaz and Laurel and their random mission could not hold my attention at all. I mean, what even is the Quadrant? Should we be worried about this? How come we've never heard of them? Are they really benefitting Diaz that much? 

Edited April 20, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

IIRC, these reviewers have historically been anti-Olicity/Felicity...

Arrow season 6, episode 19 review: The Dragon
by Michael Patterson  April 19, 2018
https://bamsmackpow.com/2018/04/19/arrow-season-6-episode-19-review-the-dragon/

Quote

-This was, without a doubt, one of the strongest episodes of the season. It actually felt less like Arrow and more like a darker spinoff, and it was such a refreshing change compared to what we’re used to.
*  *  *
-It was also nice to see the dynamic between Diaz and Black Siren. For being Star City’s crime power couple, they had very little scenes up until this point.

-Both Kirk Acevedo and Katie Cassidy absolutely killed it in this episode. Can they lead every episode from now on?
*  *  *
-Oliver Queen was in this episode for barely two minutes. I wasn’t sure if they could ever pull off an episode without him leading, but Diaz and Siren nailed it.

-We’re definitely getting a redemption arc for Black Siren. She was repulsed, shocked and actually had to look away during some Diaz’s violent moments.

ARROW: Here's Our Review Of Season 6 Episode 19 'The Dragon'
Ali Harris | 4/19/2018
https://www.comicbookmovie.com/tv/dc/arrow/arrow-heres-our-review-of-season-6-episode-19-the-dragon-a159808

Quote

In terms of acting, Kirk Acevedo was really good this episode, matter of fact anything I've said previously about him has pretty much been proven wrong here. I'm glad that Kirk had the freedom to act in the way that Ricardo Diaz is meant to be displayed. However, my issue with his character in this episode and just this season overall is that he simply isn't intimidating. Yes, I understand that he went crazy killing some Quadrant members, along with the son of a former member of the Quadrant but having him simply kill a few dudes in an episode just isn't good enough. While I did enjoy Acevedo's acting in this episode, he often sounds like he has a frog in his mouth and honestly that's not the fault of the actor considering he's doing what he's told. Maybe it's the fact that he allows Black Siren to speak to him with disrespect or even just from other people in general, it just reduces the level of intimidation for the character. 
*  *  *
Moving on to the side story of this episode which honestly was the most pointless thing the writers could've included. Felicity and Curtis working together for the whole Helix project wasn't needed at all and felt so out of pace, for me it didn't ruin the whole episode but there definitely were times when I thought it was so stupid. They could've just filled the rest of the episode with Oliver as Green Arrow or something as simple as developing the relationship between Oliver and William. The inclusion of Felicity and Curtis was not only unnecessary but brought down the quality of this episode which in itself wasn't too great, or at least not as good as last weeks episode. Also, this episode just showed how much this season has screwed up in terms of good character development when Curtis says he'd try not to take satisfaction from the fact that Oliver is all alone when Felicity confided in him about her issue with Oliver "firing her". 
*  *  *
I found it interesting that Black Siren was basically hesitating at the sight of Ricardo torturing Eric Cartier Jr or burning Jesse alive, as well as the fact that she continually questioned Ricardo's plan and his over-confidence. Perhaps the writers are still going with the redemption arc for her character this season and I wouldn't mind seeing that be complete by the end of the season. I do think that next episode will feature Black Siren essentially betraying Ricardo Diaz as episode 20 is titled 'Shifting Allegiances' so perhaps she changes sides and even potentially helps Oliver in that fight that's shown in the promo trailer for next weeks episode between Oliver and Diaz.

Edited April 20, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Back to sanity...

‘ARROW’ 6×19 REVIEW: WHAT THE HELL WAS THAT?
Posted on April 20, 2018 By Alyssa Barbieri
http://fangirlish.com/arrow-6x19-review-what-the-hell-was-that/

Quote

I mean, I knew this episode (“The Dragon”) was going to be bad. Especially when an episode is focused mostly on a boring, spineless, in-no-way-threatening villain like Diaz. But I wasn’t prepared for this level of bad. The level of bad where it’s not even entertaining in the slightest. God save me from this boring ass episode of television.
*  *  *
Honestly, I don’t know if I’ve ever been more bored by an episode of Arrow. And there have been some real duds. I was more focused on the NFL Schedule Release Show than this mess of an episode where Arrow forgot about its own hero. But this episode was so boring that it had me falling asleep. And I can say that that has never happened to me.
*  *  *
Diaz is completely undeserving of this hour of television. He’s easily the worst Big Bad that Arrow has ever had on this show. He’s not terrifying or threatening in the slightest and there’s no legitimate reason as to why he required an entire episode of backstory. I have no desire to learn about Diaz’s backstory nor his current story. The whole Dragon logo behind the Arrow title card was vomit-inducing, to say the least.

Not to mention this show is trying to convince us — or maybe themselves — that Diaz is a Big Bad worthy of Oliver Queen, which is laughable to the point of cardiac arrest. Diaz is a punk. Oliver is a skilled badass. Are you trying to compare the two on a level playing field? Are you trying to tell us that this should something other than an overwhelming win on Oliver’s front? Are you questioning my intelligence with this?
*  *  *
Since I despised every part of this episode except for Felicity and Oliver at the end, I’m going to spend this review talking about what I would like to see from this show moving forward. And by forward, I mean season 7 when Beth Schwartz takes over showrunner duties (and this show finally finds a pulse again):
*  *  *
Arrow has thrown the term “back to basics” around a lot, but they don’t seem to know what that really means. Season 5 was a blown experiment as they failed to pinpoint what the actual “back to basics” was. This season, they’ve channeled “back to basics” as meaning lone-wolf Oliver, which interestingly only really lasted three episodes in the series. So anytime this show wants to reunite Oliver with his team (mainly Felicity and Diggle), I’ll be all the more happier for it.

When you talk “back to basics” what you’re talking about is a return to something in the past that was productive and successful. When I think about productive and successful seasons I think back to season 2 almost immediately. That second season, to this day, remains my favorite because of how brilliantly it executed the balance of character and plot while delivering an intimidating Big Bad and a sense of high stakes that genuinely had me concerned but oh so holding onto the edge of my seat.

So when I’m talking “back to basics,” I’m talking about that balance. That balance of characters and plot, where you don’t force the characters into situations that are unlike them and call it in-character. But, perhaps most importantly, the thing that made season 2 so damn amazing was the team of Oliver, Diggle, and Felicity, who became the beating heart of this show and reminded us that while, yes, this was a show about a superhero, it was also a show about the person under that hood. Season 2 managed to take these situations and develop its characters and put them in situations where they were allowed to grow. It didn’t push them aside for something shiny and new.

I’d love to see Arrow return to its former glory, where Team Arrow (Oliver, Diggle, Felicity, Roy) are at the forefront. Honestly, take the Newbies away. They’re not contributing anything to the story, at this point. Or force them off screen or to some eight-episode web series. Arrow was so good because it managed to, in between these missions, allow these characters to just exist and be themselves giving us brilliant moments that are still gif-worthy. Not to mention, we were promised Felicity story not pertaining to romance and the best this show could do was thrust Curtis upon her when this should have been her storyline.
*  *  *
There have been too many times on this show in the past couple of seasons where these characters — characters fans know like the back of their hand to this point, mind you — have been completely out-of-character. And it’s without purpose. No lesson learned. It’s merely done to serve a plot point that they wanted to execute. No matter that this character would never do that or say that or even think like that. If they want drama, then it must be okay. Damn these characters’ morals and beliefs if it means we get to have shouting matches with great acting or angst that’s been done too many times.
*  *  *
-GET OFF YOUR DAMN HIGH HORSE CURTIS
-DO NOT APOLOGIZE TO CURTIS FELICITY.
-Felicity is too good for this world. This show doesn’t deserve her.
-WHY IS THIS WHOLE EPISODE ABOUT THE DRAGON GUY? THIS IS ARROW, AGAIN THIS SHOW FORGOT THAT.
-THAT DRAGON LOGO BEHIND THE ARROW TITLE CARD? WTF IS THIS SHIT?!
*  *  *
-“I’m dying here.” -Where Felicity accurately describes my feelings about this stupid episode.
-Dragon is such a worthless villain. You expect me to believe this guy can match-up with Oliver Queen? Oliver Queen, who took down Ra’s al Ghul, Damien Darhk and Slade Wilson? THAT IS CUTE.
-I have zero interest in any part of Dragon’s story.
-What is that weird shit going on between Diaz and Black Siren?
-OLIVER QUEEN APPEARED 53 MINUTES INTO THIS EPISODE ON HIS OWN SHOW.
-How do you spell bullshit? A-R-R-O-W.
-“Felicity, I will always come back.” AKA the only worthwhile scene in this entire episode.
-I’m laughing because The CW put that Olicity kiss in the promo for this awful episode as a last-ditch effort to get some viewers. Pretty sure it lost them before the 53-minute mark.
-Next week’s episode promo shows Oliver vs. Diaz. If the result is anything other than Oliver easily and handedly defeating Diaz than this show will have officially jumped the shark.
-Is it season 7 yet?

Edited April 20, 2018 by tv echo

[GHScorpiosRule]

18 minutes ago, tv echo said:

I mean, I knew this episode (“The Dragon”) was going to be bad. Especially when an episode is focused mostly on a boring, spineless, in-no-way-threatening villain like Diaz.

THIS!

19 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Diaz is completely undeserving of this hour of television. He’s easily the worst Big Bad that Arrow has ever had on this show. He’s not terrifying or threatening in the slightest and there’s no legitimate reason as to why he required an entire episode of backstory. I have no desire to learn about Diaz’s backstory nor his current story. The whole Dragon logo behind the Arrow title card was vomit-inducing, to say the least.

AND THIS!

19 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Not to mention this show is trying to convince us — or maybe themselves — that Diaz is a Big Bad worthy of Oliver Queen, which is laughable to the point of cardiac arrest. Diaz is a punk. Oliver is a skilled badass. Are you trying to compare the two on a level playing field? Are you trying to tell us that this should something other than an overwhelming win on Oliver’s front? Are you questioning my intelligence with this?

PREACH!

20 minutes ago, tv echo said:

When you talk “back to basics” what you’re talking about is a return to something in the past that was productive and successful. When I think about productive and successful seasons I think back to season 2 almost immediately. That second season, to this day, remains my favorite because of how brilliantly it executed the balance of character and plot while delivering an intimidating Big Bad and a sense of high stakes that genuinely had me concerned but oh so holding onto the edge of my seat.

TESTIFY!!!!

Hell, I shoulda quoted the whole post, but these have me doing the handwave.

[Lady Calypso]

Wendy Mericle didn't get totally screwed by her showrunning duties. She has signed an overall deal with ABC Studios.

Quote

Under the multi-year pact, Mericle, a sought-after drama writer, will develop new projects for broadcast, cable, and streaming services.

“Wendy is one of the most talented storytellers working in television and we’re thrilled to have her on the ABC Studios team,” said ABC Studios president Patrick Moran.

This marks Mericle’s return to ABC Studios where she earned her first producing stripes on the studio’s ABC dramedy Desperate Housewives. Mericle worked on the series for the 2011-12 season, rising from executive story editor to co-producer. Mericle went on to join the CW DC drama series Arrow, from Berlanti Prods. and Warner Bros. TV, right after the pilot in 2012. She quickly advanced through the ranks, starting as co-producer and becoming executive producer/co-showrunner at the beginning of Season 4.

[tv echo]

Arrow: Black Siren’s Redemption Arc Has Failed
By Matt Morrison  April 20, 2018
https://screenrant.com/arrow-black-siren-redemption-failed/

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Despite the wishes of many fans, the sixth season of Arrow has failed to redeem Black Siren. The series hasn’t been able to develop the evil doppelganger of Laurel Lance into a proper character, in addition to struggling to produce a storyline that would allow her to make amends for her many misdeeds.
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When Season 6 of Arrow started, Katie Cassidy claimed in one interview that the new season would explore Black Siren’s backstory and “what her relationship was like with [her version of] Oliver.” Unfortunately, this did not come to pass. The only new details regarding Black Siren’s past on Earth-2 involved her father dying on her thirteenth birthday and the revelation that she had never gone to college, earned a degree or even held a real job in her entire life.
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A larger and more disturbing problem has been the efforts of Quentin Lance to try and force redemption upon Black Siren over the course of Season 6, claiming that there has to be some good in her because his daughter was good. This insistence came shortly after it was revealed that Black Siren went through her teen years without a father. It diminishes Black Siren’s agency as a character to suggest that all of her issues ultimately come down to her just needing a daddy.
*  *  *
Ignoring that, the plain truth is that Black Siren has not shown any honest signs of wanting to redeem herself or being worthy of a second chance. The past two years have seen her gleefully commit numerous acts of terrorism, theft, destruction and murder. She claimed to have been forced into helping Zoom and Prometheus, yet she went back to helping Prometheus despite being offered a shot at freedom. The sixth season has seen her ally herself with Cayden James and Ricardo Diaz – two ordinary humans who could hardly force Black Siren to obey them. She’s even become romantically involved with Diaz.

The failure of Arrow to sell Black Siren’s redemption arc peaked in “The Dragon.” The episode concluded with Black Siren looking disturbed as Ricardo Diaz killed the bully who tormented him as a child by burning him alive. This reluctance might have been more convincing had Black Siren not spent most of the episode (and indeed the season) complaining about not being allowed to kill wantonly. It didn’t help matters that she was party to a far more grisly murder – turning a man into a suicide bomber after slowly torturing him – earlier in the episode. Hopefully the Arrow season finale,

Spoiler

which will include the return of Sara Lance, will see White Canary giving Black Siren the beating she so richly deserves and reminding Quentin what a daughter’s love is really like.

 

Edited April 20, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Natalie wrote the Arrow capsule recap this week (instead of Chance Agard), as should be obvious when you read it...

Superhero Insider: Supergirl returns as Black Lightning ends
CHANCELLOR AGARD and NATALIE ABRAMS April 20, 2018 AT 02:06 PM EDT
http://ew.com/tv/2018/04/20/superhero-insider-supergirl-returns-black-lightning-ends/

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Sure, Arrow wanted us to feel some sense of sympathy for Ricardo Diaz by setting an entire episode around the parallels between his troubled childhood as an orphan and his current quest to finally belong by joining the Quadrant, but the hour was also a stark reminder of just how dangerous he is. He killed so many Quadrant thugs without blinking an eye, with the hour culminating in him burning his childhood tormentor alive. Seriously. Even Black Siren was traumatized by his tactics, which hopefully — if anything can be gained from this mostly Arrow-less Arrow hour — it’s the catalyst for her road to redemption. —N.A.

Related: Read our recap here, and find out about Arrow‘s new showrunner here.

Entertainment Weekly - Superhero Insider: Black Lightning Finale And The Return Of Supergirl
April 20, 2018   Kyle Anderson and Natalie Abrams
https://soundcloud.com/ewradio/superhero-insider-black-lightning-finale-and-the-return-of-supergirl

-- Arrow 619: Kyle "hesitated" to call Diaz this season's Big Bad "because he's not that big and not that bad." He wondered if it was "weird" to have the villain's backstory this late in the season and to do it in a way that's supposed to make us feel sympathy for him. Natalie noted that Diaz was still "slaughtering" people, so much so that even Black Siren was going, "yo, dude, you're going too far," especially when he set that guy on fire. Kyle said that the show "played her hesitation really well." He said that Diaz was a "savage" villain.

-- Natalie said that Diaz "going that dark, I think, may push Black Siren back to the light. That might be the good thing here."

-- Natalie thought that, because they did Diaz's backstory so late in the season, Diaz might carry over to next season. Kyle agreed, saying that we may only now just be meeting the "true Big Bad for Season 7."

-- Kyle and Natalie both liked the subplot with Felicity and Curtis finally working on Helix Dynamics. Kyle said that, although he's kinda been a "defender of the team wars," he'd forgotten how much he missed "this version of this show" where they worked well together.

-- Regarding the ending scene where it seemed like Oliver might be dead, Natalie said that the show is still called Arrow. Then Kyle said that he learned a new TV term this week - "schmuck's bait" - where something would permanently alter a show, but you'd have to be a schmuck to believe it (like, the show killing Oliver).

-- Natalie pointed out that this one scene was the only scene in which Oliver appeared in this episode. She thought that Oliver's promise to always come back to Felicity sounded like "the cop who's about to retire or the rookie whose wife is pregnant." Kyle wondered if it was possible that SA was going to leave the show after this season. Natalie said that she's previously suggested that, in the last season of the show (not necessarily S7), she'd like to see the season start with a flashforward of Oliver dying and then have the season show how he gets to that point. 

-- Kyle would like at least 8 seasons of Arrow because he likes shows to have even-numbered seasons, not odd-numbered seasons.

-- Natalie then mentioned spoilers about upcoming new episodes.

Edited April 20, 2018 by tv echo

[lemotomato]

The next time we say stuff like “why would the writers do XYZ? the audience isn’t stupid!” we should do well to keep in mind the audience includes Natalie and Kyle, and that, yes some viewers are that stupid.

[BkWurm1]

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While I did enjoy Acevedo's acting in this episode, he often sounds like he has a frog in his mouth and honestly that's not the fault of the actor considering he's doing what he's told. 

How Kirk speaks when playing DDDiaz is probably the one thing I can promise he DID have total control over.  It's hilarious they'd try to shift blame on the character's more glaring flaw.    

[tv echo]

"More human and likable" - really??! ...

TV Review: ‘Arrow: The Dragon’ (Season 6 Episode 19)
 APRIL 20TH, 2018 BY NICHOLAS GRAFF
http://sciencefiction.com/2018/04/20/tv-review-arrow-dragon-season-6-episode-19/

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Last night’s episode was something somewhat different for the show, and I actually applaud them for the change of pace. The whole episode more or less centered around Ricardo Diaz and his scheme to get into the opulent Crime Gang “The Quadrant,” essentially making the man (and his henchwoman, Black Siren) the protagonists of the episode. It made him seem more human and likable, but still doing an excellent job of reminding us that he is still the villain and needs to be stopped before his reign of terror continues to hurt more people in Star City.
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-When will Laurel realize Diaz is a lunatic, and at what point has she killed too many people for us to ever believe she can really be brought back to the good side? I still feel like they want to redeem her, but damn, she’s done so much bad.

-After making that insane promise to Felicity, I am even more firmly in the camp that Oliver is going to “die” at the end of this season. Maybe this is why Roy will come back in Season 7? To take Oliver’s place temporarily until Oliver returns?

-Knowing how Diaz treats his prisoners/ victims, I’m wondering if Quentin will get captured again by the man, meaning that will be Laurel’s breaking point, watching Diaz torture the only person she seems to really care about, and that will force her to finally switch sides. Otherwise, I don’t see it happening.

Definitely a fun episode, lots of great action, I really liked the bit of doing the dragon symbol behind “Arrow” instead of the arrowhead. Besides that, I like it when the show experiments nowadays, especially since they have so little to lose by experimentation, and having an episode not focus on Oliver and company was actually kind of refreshing. It  allowed Kirk Acevedo and Katie Cassidy to really shine in this episode. They’re nearing the end of the 6th season, ratings and fan love is not what it once was so why not have a little fun and shake up the system?

Edited April 20, 2018 by tv echo

[insomniadreams88]

1 minute ago, tv echo said:

"More human and likable" - really??!...

TV Review: ‘Arrow: The Dragon’ (Season 6 Episode 19)
 APRIL 20TH, 2018 BY NICHOLAS GRAFF
http://sciencefiction.com/2018/04/20/tv-review-arrow-dragon-season-6-episode-19/

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-When will Laurel realize Diaz is a lunatic, and at what point has she killed too many people for us to ever believe she can really be brought back to the good side?

Brought back? We've never seen Black Siren on the good side. 

[tv echo]

Arrow Review: The Dragon (Season 6 Episode 19)
April 20, 2018   Brianna Martinez
https://www.telltaletv.com/2018/04/arrow-review-the-dragon-season-6-episode-19/

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Arrow Season 6 Episode 19, “The Dragon,” puts the villains first and suffers for it in an underwhelming hour that is disappointingly light on the core characters.

Shifting focus to the villains this late in the game in an effort to lay the foundation for any kind of connection feels like a major misstep in the villains’ story.

Paired with the fact that the Quadrant, some sort of mafia society, seems to materialize with a sense of powerlessness after being overtaken by one person by the end of the hour, the story is off-putting and adds no depth to the danger that Star City faces (more so than usual). At this point, it’s not entirely clear why this is all happening.
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Curtis’ smug attitude and Felicity’s need to apologize doesn’t make sense in the grand scheme of things considering what Curtis, Rene, and Dinah put Felicity, Oliver, and Diggle through the moment they deemed their former mentors not trustworthy and the wrong kind of heroes.

If anything, Curtis should be the one apologizing for messing with Diggle’s arm and the newbies’ choices at the cabin on Arrow Season 6 Episode 14.
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It’s heartbreaking to see her tell Oliver how she’s not handling this team break-up very well.

Felicity: Out here…I’m helpless out here.
Oliver: You aren’t helpless anywhere. Ever.

Their open conversation is one of those moments that really exemplifies how their dynamic works.

It’s that support I’ve mentioned countless times before that adds to the strength of their relationship. When Oliver’s unsure and spiraling, Felicity grounds him.

This time, it’s Oliver’s turn to ground her and promises her that he will always come back to her and William. Granted, it’s not an assurance that he can really make considering his line of work, but it’s still heartwarming to watch.
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-I’m sensing attempts at a redemption for Black Siren, and it doesn’t really make sense with how they have been acting. But I guess time will tell.
-But really, the newbies have to be the ones apologizing for their petulant behavior and mistakes.
-Aside from those episodes back on Arrow Season 3, this is the least we’ve seen of Oliver in an episode and at this point in the season that doesn’t seem like a wise move.

Edited April 20, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Reading the bolded part below made me think of how, in 6x04, Black Siren killed that building security guard who pleaded for his life, saying that he had "two little girls," but she broke his neck anyway...

How 'Arrow' Finally Made Ricardo Diaz into a Real Threat 
Friday, April 20, 2018  Vanessa Frith
http://www.buddytv.com/articles/arrow/how-arrow-finally-made-ricardo-68455.aspx

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Like they say on Supernatural, however, "everybody's got a sob story, but not everybody becomes a killer." Diaz's childhood certainly tugs at your heartstrings -- abandonment, abuse and desperation pull you in -- but his final scene reminds you that he is, indeed, the enemy. Jesse is the flip side of the Dragon -- a monster in youth, innocent in adulthood. The very idea that Ricardo would burn him alive -- and leave another set of children fatherless in the process -- reminds us he's not one to be trifled with. Clearly willing to do whatever it takes, Diaz is as formidable as any of the Green Arrow's former foes. We just didn't know it till now. 

Edited April 20, 2018 by tv echo

[lemotomato]

This review was too funny not to share: