The Starling City Times: News and Media about Arrow

[BkWurm1]

This season they have been doing more of a found costume for Rene and Curtis (and I guess the Rags for Rory, lol).  But if Felicity is giving her a costume, that sounds like something more formal, so I worry the buckles will be back.  

I guess I don't mind buckles as long as they are functional.  Laurel's looked like they'd all lock up together on her inside thighs if she started running.  

[Starfish35]

24 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Laurel's looked like they'd all lock up together on her inside thighs if she started running.  

Lol. They totally did.

Hopefully the costume designers are past their buckles phase.  And I doubt JH is having the kind of "fashion conscious" input that KC had.

[kismet]

Not to make it about body type and honestly I can't remember for sure, but I don't think JH has as big of a thigh gap as KC. So the buckles will have to be more strategically placed foe functionality. Hopefully they are over that many buckles.

I do think they will probably go more Sara on the legs with homage to fishnets with some imprinting or leggings with design.

I did prefer LL top a little more once the jacket was open, so maybe they'll do that. That way it can be a blend of both.

@BkWurm1- Do we know that 

Spoiler

FS is designing the outfit?

[Morrigan2575]

They need to go straight up Fishnets, no pants just totally make her look like a hooker...because comics

[AyChihuahua]

5 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

Lol. They totally did.

Hopefully the costume designers are past their buckles phase.  And I doubt JH is having the kind of "fashion conscious" input that KC had.

It was a terribly stupid costuming choice, but I THINK the purpose was to make her legs look like they had some bulk, aka muscle. KC has very, very slender legs.

I think JH will probably look good. IMO she has a fantastic figure. 

[JJ928]

I don't think JH is all that much more muscular than KC. I think she's a little shorter and her legs aren't as long, but I don't look at her and think, wow she's muscular. That said, it doesn't matter, Roy and Wild pup are nothing special bulk or height wise & we're still expected to believe they can match someone like Diggle lol. I think tina will have a similar costume to Laurel with minor differences. 

Edited February 21, 2017 by JJ928

[AyChihuahua]

2 minutes ago, JJ928 said:

I don't think JH is all that much more muscular than KC. I think she's a little shorter and her legs aren't as long, but I don't look at her and think, wow she's muscular. That said, it doesn't matter, Roy and Wild pup are nothing special bulk or height wise & we're still expected to believe they can match someone like Diggle lol. I think tina will have a similar costume to Laurel with minor differences. 

The problem wasn't that KC was slender (Willa is quite slender, too), it was that her legs were VERY VERY slender. Disproportionately so. She bulked up a lot on top but her bottom half was as slender as ever, so I think the costumer was trying to counter that.

There's so much suspension of disbelief required for all this. IRL if a guy built like Digg hit...nearly anyone, that person would be unconscious for quite some time. I'm mostly fine with it, but sometimes this show makes it difficult.

[Chaser]

I think JH has definition but isn't muscular. She seems tiny to me. I think buckles would make her look even smaller. If I had to guess, I would say they will go more Sara than Laurel with added classic BC costumed details. Remember guys, this is THE REAL BLACK CANARY.

[JJ928]

I think Tina will have some sort of buckles on the legs, maybe just not as much. I feel like the show likes to play with the idea of people wearing these costumes, that were handed down to them, which is gross. I can see them maybe adding some cleavage to her Laurel-esque BC suit. I actually had less issue w/Thea because at least the show gave her 5 months of intense training (in off screen ville) with a psychopath, so I could hand wave it. But Roy had like 2 weeks of training and a coma, WD has some military but has been shown to be useless in hand to hand, and Tina is a magical ninja cop with a sonic cry.

 As someone who never cared for Laurel, I'd rather have her back than these newbies. 

Edited February 21, 2017 by JJ928

[Chaser]

Thea worked better because we knew Malcolm. We saw his capabilities and we knew his background.

[wonderwall]

8 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

I'm curious to see what Dinah's costume looks like.  Is it going to be more like Sara's or Laurel's, or somewhere in between?

I wouldn't be surprised if they borrowed from both looks... There really is nothing else original about her so...

[tv echo]

The doomsday soothsaying has already begun...

3 Reasons Season 6 Of ARROW Will Be Its Last 
Feb.19.17 – by Mark Cook
http://lrmonline.com/news/opinion-top-3-reasons-arrow-season-6-will-be-its-last

Season 6 'Arrow' Last One? The Ratings Are Down Compared to Other CW DC Shows
Daniel Ketchum   Feb. 19, 2017
http://www.inquisitr.com/3997092/season-6-arrow-last-one-the-ratings-are-down-compared-to-other-cw-dc-shows/

And for you Laurel fans...

Arrow: How Laurel’s Mistreatment Disrespected Her Black Canary Legacy
By Mae Abdulbaki on February 16, 2017
http://theyoungfolks.com/television/arrow-how-laurels-mistreatment-disrespected-her-black-canary-legacy/97350

Edited February 21, 2017 by tv echo

[BkWurm1]

5 hours ago, kismet said:

 

I do think they will probably go more Sara on the legs with homage to fishnets with some imprinting or leggings with design.

I did prefer LL top a little more once the jacket was open, so maybe they'll do that. That way it can be a blend of both.

@BkWurm1- Do we know that 

  Hide contents

FS is designing the outfit?

I really know nothing, lol. Just guesses.  

[LeighAn]

I say give her fishnets. Like seriously go the full kit and caboodle. So she can be the realest real Canary. 

[thegirlsleuth]

I think they might choose to go full fishnets for the new costume since they are very focused on comic canon, in which case Juliana gets my sincerest sympathy.

[AyChihuahua]

2 minutes ago, thegirlsleuth said:

I think they might choose to go full fishnets for the new costume since they are very focused on comic canon, in which case Juliana gets my sincerest sympathy.

I can't see it, just bc it's Canada. They couldn't even stick to sleeveless. (If not for the cold issue I totally think they'd do it.)

[Starfish35]

No, they're not going to do full fishnets.  But my guess is they'll go back to some sort of fishnet pattern in the pants like Sara had.  If I had to guess, I think her costume will be closer to Sara's than Laurel's.  

[jay741982]

My comic nerd friend said they should at least do a scene for humor when we briefly see Dinah with the fishnets on and she looks at the team or whoever suggests it and says something like SERIOUSLY? Or trys on the Laurel look as BC and is basically like This is Hideous LOL

[Starfish35]

15 minutes ago, jay741982 said:

Or trys on the Laurel look as BC and is basically like This is Hideous LOL

That would be funny. :)

[strikera0]

I know we would never get anything like it, but I would love to see a scene where Felicity and Dinah come up with various different costume design sketches for the BC outfit. One of those sketches could include the fishnets and they shake their heads in unision over the hideousness of the outfit before they quickly move on to another design. 

[jay741982]

29 minutes ago, strikera0 said:

I know we would never get anything like it, but I would love to see a scene where Felicity and Dinah come up with various different costume design sketches for the BC outfit. One of those sketches could include the fishnets and they shake their heads in unision over the hideousness of the outfit before they quickly move on to another design. 

Yes something like what you described is what me and my friend were talking about the other day 

[Primal Slayer]

I think they will make sure that DDs costume is the most modern Canary-like costume yet. It'll be a good one. Probably just a minor step below Sara's.

[kismet]

14 hours ago, Chaser said:

Thea worked better because we knew Malcolm. We saw his capabilities and we knew his background.

Plus there was the secret drugs.

LL joined her local gym for a few nights of punch bag.

Definitely different levels of training and education.

[kismet]

7 hours ago, AyChihuahua said:

I can't see it, just bc it's Canada. They couldn't even stick to sleeveless. (If not for the cold issue I totally think they'd do it.)

Tan tights under the fishnets? They do it in the Ice Capades :)

[LeighAn]

6 hours ago, kismet said:

Tan tights under the fishnets? They do it in the Ice Capades :)

Perfect! Dear Marc and Bamford if you are reading this forum This is an exceptional idea, do it. So we know Tinah is the Blackest Canary realest of the real canon Canary. 

[tv echo]

Arrow Review: “Spectre of the Gun”
Nora Dominick   Feb. 21, 2017
http://emertainmentmonthly.com/index.php/arrow-review-spectre-of-the-gun/

Quote

In today’s political climate, television has become a welcomed way to not only escape our troubles, but to also engage in conversation. Arrow enters this arena with its latest episode that deals with Oliver using his powers as Mayor to put an end to the gun violence in Star City. While an important issue to discuss, Arrow felt like the wrong DCTV show to do so. Last time we checked, Arrow is about a masked vigilante who uses a bow and arrows to take down criminals. For the first several seasons, and even to this day, Green Arrow kills people in the pursuit of justice. Yes, he’s taken his kill count way down, but in the end this is a show about a man who plays God. So, should Oliver Queen/Green Arrow really be the one to talk?

... Somehow, we don’t quite see how this episode of Arrow will change the course of the show forever. Again, this is still a show about the Green Arrow and whether it’s morally right or morally wrong, Team Arrow will continue to kill people.

This episode could have been increasing better if Arrow became self-aware. While off-handedly mentioned, we would’ve liked to see an actual conversation where Team Arrow talks constructively about what they do night after night. Looking at Team Arrow, Wild Dog (Rick Gonzalez) runs around with guns. This episode would’ve benefited from Oliver having a moment where he talked about his own behavior before he began preaching to all of Star City. 
*  *  *
The flaws with Oliver’s actions in this episode, ultimately come down to the writing and story being told. Once again, Mayor Queen is preaching about background checks and getting a handle on the amount of guns running through Star City. It’s hard to believe that Oliver believes in this, considering who his superhero persona is. He returned to Star City to cross off names on a list. He did that by killing and maiming anyone he came into contact with. So, it’s hard to listen to Oliver preaching about gun control when we know what he does on a nightly basis. Again, Arrow may not have been the best choice of DCTV shows to use in order to insight a conversation about gun control.
*  *  *
Another storyline prominent in this episode is Diggle (David Ramsey) and Dinah’s (Juliana Harkavy) growing friendship. Since joining Team Arrow a few episodes ago, Dinah is already fitting in nicely. Although Arrow is using the character to essential re-invent Black Canary, Juliana Harkavy is doing so brilliantly. She’s simultaneously making her character her own while honoring the Black Canary legacy. This week, Diggle began to take Dinah under his wing as they laid the groundwork for a friendship. It’s a dynamic we hope Arrow continues to explore because we’re loving it. Ramsey and Harkavy have a great dynamic and we want it to grow as the season continues.
*  *  *
Our biggest issue with Arrow’s latest episode has to do with the lack of Felicity Smoak (Emily Bett Rickards). A vocal character throughout the entirety of the show, Felicity is all but silent this week. Oliver tries to stop the violence as Mayor and Rene and Curtis (Echo Kellum) engage in a healthy discussion, Felicity has no opinion and just asks that Rene and Curtis stop fighting. Now, unless Barry (Grant Gustin) screwed up the timeline again, Felicity is the biggest victim of gun violence on Arrow aside from Rene. Last season, Felicity was left paralyzed from the waist down when Damien Darhk (Neal McDonough) handed loaded assault rifles to his henchmen. If anyone were to have an opinion on gun control it should be Felicity.

Felicity not only doesn’t engage in the fight alongside Team Arrow, she doesn’t even have an opinion. She says she has no comment on the subject when Curtis asks her. This isn’t the Felicity we know. The Felicity we know has a comment about everything, it’s one of her best assets. Not only does she have no opinion, she tells Curtis and Rene to stop fighting about the subject because it won’t help. Again, totally out of character for a woman who wants nothing but to fight for justice. If anything Felicity would have a strong opinion on the subject because of what’s happened to her.

A better approach to Felicity’s character in this episode would’ve been to have her have PTSD or ultimately feel skittish about talking about the subject. We would’ve understood that storyline over her being utterly silent. Emily Bett Rickards is such a force to be reckoned with and not having her a valuable part of this episode truly degraded it. Felicity being an advocate for gun control would’ve allowed us to feel more attached to these characters fight for justice. Arrow should’ve given Rickards the means to play Felicity’s storyline as that of trauma, not being complacent.

Edited February 22, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Arrow Round Table: Best Flashbacks Yet?
Paul Dailly at February 21, 2017 3:00 pm.
https://www.tvfanatic.com/2017/02/arrow-round-table-best-flashbacks-yet/

Quote

Renee is becoming one of the best characters on the show. 

That was pretty much confirmed on Arrow Season 5 Episode 13 when we got some insight into his back story. 

TV Fanatics, Steve Ford, Jim Garner and Paul Dailly discuss all things, Renee, Oliver's new tactic and Felicity's opinion on guns. 
*  *  *
Why did Felicity not bother about the guns?

Steve: I do know a few people personally who are indifferent on this same topic. I've never pushed the subject to find out why they have no stance, so I just respect their opinion on not having an opinion, so I suppose I feel the same way toward Felicity.

Jim: I was glad at least one person wasn't acting like this was an after school special... The constant back and forth beating us over the head with "guns are bad" followed by "but we've got rights to guns" was driving me bonkers. I was expecting Blossom to show up at anymore to give us a moral wrap up.  

Paul: I just found it odd because she has been shot in the past. She never really addressed that or even acknowledged that it happened to her. 
*  *  *
Are Dinah and Diggle getting a little too close?

Steve: I didn't really get that impression, it seems to be more of close friendship development rather than anything potentially romantic. Diggle always tries to do right by his family and has high morals, so I do not foresee him developing those kinds of feelings for Dinah.

If anything, I could see Dinah developing feelings for Diggle and him rejecting her due to his commitment to his family. As it stands right now, though, I do not think we have anything to worry about between these two.

Jim: I agree with Steve, they have similar backgrounds, Diggle is happily married. Now that Dinah is back working we will see how things go.  

Paul: I like their dynamic, but I think it could stray from being platonic and I would not be on board with that. This is a superhero series, and I don't watch for relationship drama. 

Edited February 22, 2017 by tv echo

[LeighAn]

Totally contemplating wanting Diggle and Dinah to hook up just because of Pauls comment.

[apinknightmare]

At this point it's tough to say what is supposed to have potential romantic context (if there actually is any) with Dinah because she seems like she's hitting on anything that moves. And probably things that don't move, too. 

"Hey there, table..."

[Chaser]

We'll see if it's just a moo point.

[tv echo]

This guy has been anti-Olicity (and also anti-Felicity, I believe), so it's interesting to read his opinion on the New BC, although some of his comments are just laughably wrong (imo)...

Dear Arrow, Stop Trying To Make Black Canary Happen
BY CONNER SCHWERDTFEGER   Feb. 21, 2017
http://www.cinemablend.com/television/1627350/dear-arrow-stop-trying-to-make-black-canary-happen

Quote

That was an exciting development moving into Season 3, but that's not how it panned out. One of the biggest reasons why Laurel's Black Canary failed to gain the traction she deserved is the fact that the Olicity relationship drama eventually took up far too much of the show's time and attention during a critical transition period for Laurel's character. By the time Arrow finally committed to handing the leather jacket off to the older Lance sister, it had also reframed the show's central love story to center on Oliver and Felicity Smoak. This polarizing development sidelined Laurel's incarnation of Black Canary to a secondary position from which she never fully recovered, which ultimately made her death at the hands of Damien Darhk in Season 4 feel decidedly unearned.
*  *  *
While Dinah is an excellent addition to Team Arrow and is inherently likable, the fact of the matter is that Arrow took far too long to get to her. We've been through this process so many times and watched enough women don the Canary title that the emotional impact of Dinah taking over as the iconic hero has lost much of its power. At this point, she feels like a retcon to make up for past mistakes.
*  *  *
I will concede that I agree with the longstanding belief that you cannot have a Green Arrow story without Black Canary. She is a fundamental aspect of Oliver Queen's corner of the DC universe, and removing Black Canary from a Green Arrow tale is like removing Alfred from a Batman story, or Lois Lane from a Superman story. I'm not saying that Arrow should ignore the importance of Black Canary in this universe; what I am saying is that Arrow should've embraced the impact of Laurel's death, and allowed the legacy of the character to honorably end with her.

I honestly really like Dinah, but introducing her after everything we've seen from every other Canary genuinely feels like the show is just spinning its wheels and trying to undo Laurel's death. They made the decision to kill the real Black Canary; they now have to live with that.

Edited February 22, 2017 by tv echo

[apinknightmare]

17 minutes ago, tv echo said:

This polarizing development sidelined Laurel's incarnation of Black Canary to a secondary position from which she never fully recovered,

But she had whole episodes dedicated to her becoming Black Canary? Episodes where Felicity and Oliver weren't even together (and where the group thought Oliver was dead!), LOL.

[Happy Harpy]

22 minutes ago, tv echo said:

This guy has been anti-Olicity (and also anti-Felicity, I believe), so it's interesting to read his opinion on the New BC, although some of his comments are just laughably wrong (imo)...

Dear Arrow, Stop Trying To Make Black Canary Happen
BY CONNER SCHWERDTFEGER   Feb. 21, 2017
http://www.cinemablend.com/television/1627350/dear-arrow-stop-trying-to-make-black-canary-happen

LOL, I just saw that on my newsfeed and I laughed out loud at him trying so hard to sound unbiased while blaming Oliver/Felicity for Laurel's failure as a character. And, of course, glossing over the fact that Sara was literally fridged (or that the main character (fake) died) so that poor wittle Lauwel could be front and center, Instant!Masked and shoehorned into Team Arrow.

[Velocity23]

Poor Kate Spencer always gets forgotten when talking about the body count that led to Laurel getting her BC title. 

[dtissagirl]

1 hour ago, apinknightmare said:

But she had whole episodes dedicated to her becoming Black Canary? Episodes where Felicity and Oliver weren't even together (and where the group thought Oliver was dead!), LOL.

What I got from this guy is Laurel's ~rise to Black Canary~ meant nothing because she wasn't Oliver's love interest when it happened? LOL.
 

[kismet]

I agree they took too long to make BC happen. LL should have been in training since at least s2 (if not s1). And they should have had more intensive training than that local gym. Seriously, why wait until s3 to show LL training? SL should have been helping train her, perhaps connected to Tommys death or perhaps just as a sisterly thing of never wanting her to be vulnerable to physical attack.

And they never should have done Baby Canary last season. Let BC die, respect her death. Dont make her even more of a joke that an untrained child can replace her. And definitly dont hire that girl back, give her a different mask and then discard her as evil by midseason.

Lastly, if they wanted to bring a new one on, do a better job than how they did it. OQ fumbled to express why in a season of newbies we had to have a full blown search for nu-Canary. Just bring on TDD as fully functional badass and have her integrate into the team like SL did. Nobody went searching for SL to join TA. She just started saving females of SC of her own volition.

As for the romantic angle, going to remain neutral about that because I don't think the show has diffintively decided what to do with O/F. They seemed to substitute them directly into their planned O/L s4 plot - even though it made no sense. Part of me even thinks these rando s5 LI were designed for O/L. So who's to say what they had planned for O/L for s6? Maybe they'll give it to O/F, maybe O/T. 

[Guest]

I'm sorry but they messed up Laurel's rise to BC from the very beginning. She should've been proficient in martial arts or something before the Pilot. They could've said that she took up boxing or whatever to deal with the anger she felt over Oliver and Sara's betrayal/deaths. At least then they wouldn't have had to start from scratch.

Blaming Olicity when the problem was there before Olicity were even a thing is laughable. 

[theOAfc]

1 minute ago, Angel12d said:

I'm sorry but they messed up Laurel's rise to BC from the very beginning. She should've been proficient in martial arts or something before the Pilot. They could've said that she took up boxing or whatever to deal with the anger she felt over Oliver and Sara's betrayal/deaths. At least then they wouldn't have had to start from scratch.

Blaming Olicity when the problem was there before Olicity were even a thing is laughable. 

Its not just that they put a better BC in the show before she became one(Sara),its also how rushed her BC origin was, even though they had like 2,5 seasons to somehow make it a slow believable transformation. Its failure by all means,and it had nothing to do with Olicity.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, theOAfc said:

Its not just that they put a better BC in the show before she became one(Sara),its also how rushed her BC origin was, even though they had like 2,5 seasons to somehow make it a slow believable transformation. Its failure by all means,and it had nothing to do with Olicity.

That's also true. But they made a lot of missteps before Sara was even on the show. That's how badly they messed up. I can think of so many things Laurel should've been doing in s1 that hinted at her becoming BC and they did none of them. So to blame that failure on a ship makes me LOL.

Edited February 22, 2017 by Guest

[SmallScreenDiva]

In a way, Olicity did make Black Canary irrelevant on the show. IMO, Oliver's crime-fighting partner was always going to be his romantic partner, or vice-versa. Felicity fills both roles more than adequately. When the Arrow switched partners, there was no place for BC other than being another muscle on the team. Better writers might have found a way to integrate the character (in whatever incarnation) but we know that's not the case. 

[kismet]

I do agree Olicity helped to increase the problems of bringing BC to Arrow. But the biggest problems of her failures existed long before Olicity. It started with casting. And continued on throughout the seasons with significantly flawed storylines and arcs for LL from s1.

I do think they could have had a fully functional & effective BC while simultaneously having a fully functional Olicity. It was because the writers failed to write LL and BC well and that was independent of Olicity. Decent TV writers could have done it. It's not that hard to write for 2 female leads on the same crime fighting team. And they could exist in a world without a love triangle or romantic angst.

If fanfiction writers can do it, I don't understand why professional writers have such a difficult time.

[SmallScreenDiva]

21 minutes ago, kismet said:

I do agree Olicity helped to increase the problems of bringing BC to Arrow. But the biggest problems of her failures existed long before Olicity. It started with casting. And continued on throughout the seasons with significantly flawed storylines and arcs for LL from s1.

I do think they could have had a fully functional & effective BC while simultaneously having a fully functional Olicity. It was because the writers failed to write LL and BC well and that was independent of Olicity. Decent TV writers could have done it. It's not that hard to write for 2 female leads on the same crime fighting team. And they could exist in a world without a love triangle or romantic angst.

If fanfiction writers can do it, I don't understand why professional writers have such a difficult time.

Yes, KC was horribly miscast and that was certainly the beginning of it. But the flawed story lines, etc. were a result of, IMO, the loss of BC's original place on the show. They literally didn't know what to do with her. These writers were never going to have 2 leading ladies, which is what BC would have had to be. Because, as I mentioned in my original post, the formula called for Oliver's partner to be both for romance and crimefighting. And I don't think they wanted to split that role. 

[statsgirl]

58 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

In a way, Olicity did make Black Canary irrelevant on the show. IMO, Oliver's crime-fighting partner was always going to be his romantic partner, or vice-versa. Felicity fills both roles more than adequately. When the Arrow switched partners, there was no place for BC other than being another muscle on the team. Better writers might have found a way to integrate the character (in whatever incarnation) but we know that's not the case. 

ITA.  By 1x15, the show had a functioning and successful Team Arrow in Oliver/Diggle/Felicity.  The Black Canary wasn't really needed any more either a love interest or inspiration (both Diggle and Felicity filled the latter role).  At that point, a Black Canary would only have been needed as a place holder for comics fans or pure muscle.

Edited February 22, 2017 by statsgirl

[kismet]

It was the writers & TPTB choice to refuse to write for 2 female leads and change up the formula once it failed. Shame on the writers. In choosing to not split the role, they have damaged their show.

And frankly, if the show moves forward they will have to deal with FS and BC, so here's hoping they have a better plan. Because unless they make FS the BC (which I don't think will be popular with any group), they will always have to deal with 2 female leads. Because for BC to remain true to her comic legend, she needs to be more of a prominent fighter than just a newbie on TA. And that type of prominence will read as female lead to most audiences. So either remove one from the show or learn to write for both.

Clearly it looks like BC was intentionally brought back onto the show and is unlikely to leave for awhile since they just gave her a job & apt. And I can't see DC going through the trouble of allowing BC to come back to TV to be killed off again. Perhaps she might leave town, but Arrow has had a BC character or reference for almost every episode since s2. I truly believe both FS & BC are here to stay, so the writers need to expand their skills.

[Guest]

27 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

But the flawed story lines, etc. were a result of, IMO, the loss of BC's original place on the show. They literally didn't know what to do with her. These writers were never going to have 2 leading ladies, which is what BC would have had to be. Because, as I mentioned in my original post, the formula called for Oliver's partner to be both for romance and crimefighting. And I don't think they wanted to split that role. 

This doesn't bode well for Felicity in s6 then...

Unless the writers suddenly magically learn how to write for two women at the same time. LOL.

Edited February 22, 2017 by Guest

[Velocity23]

Lol why doesn't it bode well? 

[kismet]

1 minute ago, Velocity23 said:

Lol why doesn't it bode well? 

Because it looks like both FS & BC are going to be female leads in s6. Unless they magically decide to get rid of the BC, which they have never done in any season. Even with LL dead, she still was mentioned ad nausem in s5. And I don't see them getting rid of FS just yet.

And if given the choice between writing BC or FS well, I think the writers will choose BC this time. So either they learn to write 2 female leads well, or it doesn't bode well for 1 of them.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

Lol why doesn't it bode well? 

Because if what @SmallScreenDiva said is true and BC didn't work because they didn't know what to do with her (partly because her role was taken by Felicity and they couldn't have two female leads), what's going to happen with the new BC? Felicity still exists. So what's going to happen moving forward? 

And with how hard they're pushing this new BC and talking about how they can't make a GA show without her, it's not exactly a stretch to worry if Felicity's place on the show will slowly diminish. I'm not necessarily saying this is going to happen but it's okay to wonder about it.

Edited February 22, 2017 by Guest

[way2interested]

18 minutes ago, kismet said:

It was the writers & TPTB choice to refuse to write for 2 female leads and change up the formula once it failed. Shame on the writers. In choosing to not split the role, they have damaged their show.

And frankly, if the show moves forward they will have to deal with FS and BC, so here's hoping they have a better plan. Because unless they make FS the BC (which I don't think will be popular with any group), they will always have to deal with 2 female leads. Because for BC to remain true to her comic legend, she needs to be more of a prominent fighter than just a newbie on TA. And that type of prominence will read as female lead to most audiences. So either remove one from the show or learn to write for both.

Clearly it looks like BC was intentionally brought back onto the show and is unlikely to leave for awhile since they just gave her a job & apt. And I can't see DC going through the trouble of allowing BC to come back to TV to be killed off again. Perhaps she might leave town, but Arrow has had a BC character or reference for almost every episode since s2. I truly believe both FS & BC are here to stay, so the writers need to expand their skills.

I mean, there's "choosing" not to do it and then there's "not putting effort into things forced upon them." Don't get me wrong, there's still some fault on the writers for not writing better, but I'm at least giving them some leeway since it appears they wanted Laurel gone and they weren't allowed to drop her. It's a bit immature to not put enough effort to something on your own show, but it makes sense from a selfish viewpoint to not put effort into things that are forced upon you. Similar set-up (not so much of DC "allowing" as DC "demanding"), they are probably being forced to add the new BC, but again they may not want to put complete effort into basically new regulations they have instead of new ideas that came organically from their writers' room.

They're probably trying harder because it's a BC on more of their circumstances, but idk I can picture them just making Tinah a side character like Laurel in s4. I honestly don't think they care as much about BC as much as the interviews say they do. For all of them saying how important BC is, she really wasn't pretty much all of s4 (418 and 419 and a mention in 423 aside), post-313 for s3, a bunch of episodes in s2, and all of s1. I think at the end of it all she'll just end up more background, like she is now and like Laurel was. It's just basically replacing one woman with another because their bosses told them to.

Edited February 22, 2017 by way2interested

[Velocity23]

Yes ... FS and LL were also the female leads of of s3 and s4? I am sorry but this is the age old reasoning that Felicity/EBR is either leaving or dying keeps resurfacing with no real evidence. 

Edited February 22, 2017 by Velocity23