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The Starling City Times: News and Media about Arrow

Grammaeryn

By Grammaeryn
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Morrigan2575
Morrigan2575

I always find it odd when people blame the writing for LLs failure. I'll give them that for Lauiver because of the whole cheating thing but, let's be honest if SA/KC had the chemistry that SA/EBR had,

lemotomato
lemotomato

Sorry, that argument rings really hollow when the show has had a history of killing off/mistreating other female characters without a peep of protest from those same "concerned" people. Moira Queen, S

ComicFan777
ComicFan777

I know that this is supposed to be Felicity's dark arc, but...Felicity desperately doing whatever she can to save people (damn the consequences down the road) doesn't make me think that she's losing w

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lexicon

lexicon

Well his last bunch of tweets about Arrow have me going hmm...For those who haven't seen it, he asked whether Oliver was running for mayor because Felicity slept with all the mayors, which was not just offensive but blatantly wrong as well. 

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bijoux

bijoux

Shatner pretty much live tweets Arrow weekly.

Thank, I'll check out what he has to say about tonight's episode.

  

And he adores the Queen if I remember correctly

  

Whičh one?

Well his last bunch of tweets about Arrow have me going hmm...For those who haven't seen it, he asked whether Oliver was running for mayor because Felicity slept with all the mayors, which was not just offensive but blatantly wrong as well.

Sadly, this dampens my enthusiasm a great deal.
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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

Well his last bunch of tweets about Arrow have me going hmm...For those who haven't seen it, he asked whether Oliver was running for mayor because Felicity slept with all the mayors, which was not just offensive but blatantly wrong as well.

Considering that Shatner is a HUGE Felicity fan, and I mean HUGE, he even got into it with some Outlander fans over The Girl On Top competition. I don't think he was serious about that at all. In fact I swore he was taking a dig at the fans who keep saying Felicity slept with all her coworkers.
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Guest

Guest

Yeah, I remember that tweet. It was weird, I wasn't sure what he was saying because I thought he was a Felicity fan too. I guess we'll never know!

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bijoux

bijoux

Considering that Shatner is a HUGE Felicity fan, and I mean HUGE, he even got into it with some Outlander fans over The Girl On Top competition. I don't think he was serious about that at all. In fact I swore he was taking a dig at the fans who keep saying Felicity slept with all her coworkers.

That makes sense. Well, once I accept William Shatner is geeking out about Felicity. Hee.

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lexicon

lexicon

Considering that Shatner is a HUGE Felicity fan, and I mean HUGE, he even got into it with some Outlander fans over The Girl On Top competition. I don't think he was serious about that at all. In fact I swore he was taking a dig at the fans who keep saying Felicity slept with all her coworkers.

 

That actually makes me feel better because I could not understand what he was going for at all. 

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SmallScreenDiva

SmallScreenDiva

As a non-comics reader, I found this article really interesting...

 

Four seasons in, ‘Arrow’ picks and chooses from its comics past

BY ANDREW A. SMITH  10:11 AM ON NOV 4, 2015

http://zap2it.com/2015/11/arrow-season-4-constantine-damien-darhk-double-down-mr-terrific/

 

I thought the last sentence was interesting: "And if that isn’t enough to make “Green Arrow” required reading, it’s enough to make a TV show pretty entertaining."

 

I think it's probably better that Green Arrow is NOT required reading because of how the show has changed so much. It's probably more enjoyable to watch without the burden of comic canon. I'm speaking as somebody who came into the show knowing absolutely nothing about GA.

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tarotx

tarotx

(edited)

Except that Oliver and Dinah ended up separated(divorced?) and now there is a new start that has wiped GA&BC history. They don't even know each other. And DC has already been willing to have Green Arrow Oliver Queen end up married with child to someone other than the Black Canary. 

Edited by tarotx
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Vulture review of 405...

 

Arrow Recap: No Judgment
By Jenny Raftery  November 5, 2015 8:29 a.m
http://www.vulture.com/2015/11/arrow-recap-season-4-episode-5.html

Look, can Oliver sometimes be a judgmental prick? Sure, but Laurel has picked the wrong time to make this point, given her role in Sara’s killing spree. If there ever was a time for Oliver to be judgmental, it’s probably now. Moreover, Laurel’s knee-jerk reaction is wrapped up in what Oliver thinks of her decision-making, rather than in her responsibility to Sara’s victims. This scene encapsulates the unsatisfactory dynamic between Laurel and Oliver. They miscommunicate so easily and are so quick to anger that I’m left wondering if anything connects them to each other except their past. They genuinely don’t seem to trust or, at times, even like one another. This is not to say that Laurel has to like Oliver. In fact, having Laurel be an embittered thorn in Oliver’s side would be interesting to explore, but the show never quite takes it that far, which makes their friendship more confusing than complicated.

*  *  *

At the hospital, Thea confesses to Oliver that she understands Sara’s Lazarus Pit bloodlust more than he knows. Her own bloodlust hasn’t disappeared, but has been merely put at bay by Malcolm’s offering in Nanda Parbat. Laurel then arrives and when she innocently asks, “Is Thea okay?” Oliver is ready to bring that judgment Laurel had expected earlier. Laurel has some opinions of her own, too. She’s mad that Oliver never told her about the pit or that it could help Sara. Oliver points out the obvious: Thea was alive; Sara was very much dead. Laurel interprets this logic as a sign that Oliver doesn’t see her as an equal, and he never thinks about what she’s going through. That Laurel is making Thea’s injuries, brought upon by Laurel’s decision to raise her sister from the dead in secret, about a lack of respect for her is Laurel at her most Laurel.

*  *  *

... The other realm turns out to look like a trippy, hazy version of Nanda Parbat. I liked the revolving-door trick, but otherwise this sequence was underwhelming. It seemed rather low-stakes, and Oliver and Laurel rescued Sara’s soul without a sweat...

Edited by tv echo
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Robert Dougherty gave 405 a score of 6/10...

 

Arrow S4: E5 -- 'Haunted'

By Robert Dougherty November 05, 2015 08:55AM EST
http://www.themovienetwork.com/review/arrow-s4-e5-haunted

Thanks to Constantine, Haunted is really the first time viewers need to pay attention to island flashbacks instead of tuning them out. As flashback Oliver gets drawn into the visiting Constantine's quest and sets up a favor to be repaid later, it doesn't turn Haunted into a 14'th episode of Constantine as much as a lost episode of Lost. In revealing Lian Yu to be a hotbed of magical activity, all that is missing is a polar bear, a cave of light and a smoke monster -- and the fact it even has a tattoo origin story like one of Lost's most loathed episodes is another unsettling parallel.
*  *  *
... It all leads to a confrontation in the hospital that drew easy comparisons to the famed Oliver/Laurel hallway scene in Season 2, which was hyped as such even before the episode leaked online.
 

Unfortunately, the hype isn't warranted at all.
 

There are more than a few ways to dissect how this moment goes sideways and totally misses the real point. Chief among them is how Laurel insists Oliver should have told her there was a way to save Sara from the start after Thea was revived, and that he didn't because Oliver didn't see her as an equal. While there are legitimate ways to use this argument to point out hypocrisy in Oliver, in how he views Laurel and in how he might be dismissive of her and her family, this is in no way the right argument to do it.
 

Quite frankly, in between Oliver's Al Sah-him act, planning to die until the last half hour of Season 3, his sudden desire to live again and be with Felicity afterwards, and his five months of starting to live for the first time in a decade, it is rather fair to ask when Oliver would have had time to tell Laurel that Sara could be revived, and why he would think it was a good idea then or now. Even if Oliver not viewing Laurel as an equal is any part of why he didn't tell her about the Pit, it honestly and logically can't be the biggest part of it -- and if the show actually believes it is, then it has as much of a skewed and puzzling perspective as Laurel does.
 

The sad part is Oliver needs to be called out on stuff like this, although it would have been far more fitting in Season 3. This is just the most ill-advised and illogical way to do it, and only makes Laurel seem even worse in the process. To make it worse for her, Thea shows much more of a willingness to take responsibility instead of attacking others, as her own bloodlust and guilt makes her willing to let Sara kill her at one point -- but she still offers herself as bait and volunteers to travel to the other realm to save her later anyway. In contrast, Laurel only lets herself realize that maybe she made a mistake at the last possible second, and still claims only brief responsibility for her selfishness and poor thinking -- except while accusing Oliver of not caring what she's going through as a result of it.
 

But Laurel can't take responsibility because the show can't either -- because it needed to do this for the sole purpose of setting up Legends of Tomorrow and didn't care how, just like Laurel didn't care how Sara came back or what the damage would be. And for Laurel to admit she made a mistake, or for the show to admit she was in the wrong to do what she did and in how she did it, would be for the show to admit its own mistakes in so many things going back to Sara's original death. So for all the easy ways there are to come down on Laurel over the last few weeks, all she really is is the avatar for the show's own sins, and how it is guilty of everything she is and then some.

Edited by tv echo
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tv echo

tv echo

The Forbes reviewer mostly recapped what happened in 405 with almost zero analysis - but at least he's happy with S4 so far...

 

'Arrow' Season 4, Episode 5 Review: 'Haunted'
Erik Kain NOV 4, 2015 @ 09:08 PM
http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2015/11/04/arrow-season-4-episode-5-review-haunted/

All told, I’m still pretty happy so far with Season 4. Dhark is a tremendously powerful villain, though he feels extremely impersonal compared to the best villains in both Arrow and The Flash. What makes someone like Slade or Reverse Flash such great villains is how deep their hatred for the hero runs. Dhark seems detached from everything around him.

Nonetheless, I am clutching to hope....
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

The EW review is also mostly a recap of 405...

 

'Haunted'  Arrow Season 4, Ep. 5 | Aired Nov 04
Posted November 4 2015 — 9:00 PM EST
BY JONATHON DORNBUSH
http://www.ew.com/recap/arrow-season-4-episode-5

Oliver wastes no time in seeing through the spa-weekend lie, realizing the Lazarus Pit has been used to revive Sara. Laurel is angry that he’s judging her, but if Oliver is judging, it’s because she’s been meddling with forces she has little comprehension of. (Try getting stuck on and off an island for five years, Laurel, and then you’re allowed to raise the dead.)

*  *  *

... (ASIDE: Although the producers have not said Ryan will be back, I hope the door remains open to him on Arrow and The Flash to pop in when a bit of magic is needed. Constantine, for me, was always a deeply flawed show with the potential to be so much more. Ryan, given network limitations, embodied the character as best he could, and so it’s a joy to see him back, hopefully not for the last time. Even if just to see Thea’s crush on him help distract her from going out with any other terrible DJ’s. END ASIDE)...

*  *  * 

Oliver is also trying to make amends, inviting Laurel to his mayoral campaign speech despite his new manager’s protests against doing so. Oliver wants to be the friend he should have been all along, a telling step for how their dynamic will play out over the course of the season.

Edited by tv echo
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tv echo

tv echo

IGN had a mixed review but overall thought 405 "delivered a memorable team-up adventure"...

 

ARROW: "HAUNTED" REVIEW
JESSE SCHEDEEN  4 NOV 2015
http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/11/05/arrow-haunted-review?utm_source=IGN%20hub%20page&utm_medium=TV&utm_content=6&utm_campaign=Blogroll

What surprised and disappointed me with "Haunted" was how relatively little screen time Constantine actually had....
*  *  *
The same could be said for Felicity's subplot. This is something that's been bugging me for a couple weeks now. On its own merits, her story has been entertaining. Emily Bett Rickards and Echo Kellum have a great dynamic going as two amped-up geeks with communication problems... It's just that this season is starting to repeat one of the flaws of Season 3 in that this subplot could just as easily be taking place in a different show. There's very little tying the search for Ray to anything else going on in the series. There's just something about Ray's role on this show that keeps him isolated from everyone else.
 

The Constantine appearance notwithstanding, the real focus of this week's storyline was in exploring the relationship between Ollie and Laurel. Laurel's character arc has been handled pretty poorly so far this season. Her decision to resurrect Sara reeked of selfishness, and the way she tormented her father with the act last week was even worse. As if that weren't bad enough, Laurel became responsible for the deaths of several criminals this week because her soulless zombie sister decided to go on a killing spree. No one seemed overly concerned with holding her to account for that, though it's probably safe to assume Sara herself will be dealing with the fallout of her actions in much the same way Roy and Thea have grappled with being brainwashed to kill.
 

Laurel needs some damage control at this point, and this episode at least tried to deliver in that regard. The biggest moment in this regard came when Laurel called out Ollie for his hypocrisy. If he made a unilateral decision to save Thea using the Lazarus Pit, how can he judge her for doing the same with Sara? She almost had a point, except that Ollie acted out of an immediate sense of desperation and in response to a ticking clock. He chose to throw his own life away rather than allow Thea to become a victim of Ra's al Ghul's cruel game. Laurel simply couldn't cope with her sister's death, and chose to ignore the advice of everyone around her in order to reverse it. But despite all this, I think Laurel did come across a little better than she has in recent weeks. If nothing else, she was willing to travel into another plane of existence and risk her own soul to save Sara. That has to count for something.

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tv echo

tv echo

Den of Geek reviewer gave 405 a score of 3/5 (and didn't mention Laurel at all)...

 

Arrow: Haunted review
Mike Cecchini 11/4/2015 at 9:00PM
http://www.denofgeek.us/tv/arrow/250251/arrow-haunted-review

But it feels like we're spinning our wheels this week. There's barely enough actual story in "Haunted" to justify it beings its own episode. Instead, it's more of a vehicle to bring Matt Ryan in as John Constantine to help save the day. It's fine, and Ryan is expectedly electric and a welcome sight as Constantine, but we're at the quarter mark for the season and there's still not much happening other than getting Sara ready to go off to Legends of Tomorrow. This is a problem.
 

Perhaps more disturbing, what has always been Arrow's biggest strength, its large cast of core characters that you actually give a damn about, is somehow becoming a weakness. There are just far too many stories and emotional beats getting serviced every week, and it's making for some really talky, awkward scenes. I'm not sure how many of these will pay off in a satisfying way before this season ends, although I'll put good money on the revelations about Diggle's brother as the piece most likely to deliver before the end of the year.
*  *  *
- OK, not a DC thing, but "this is your overlord, Felicity Smoak" will pretty much make me laugh until the day I die.

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Sakura12

Sakura12

Thea  was the first to volunteer to go save Sara's soul, then Oliver, then Oliver asked Laurel. Laurel didn't even volunteer for that trip. On top of that it didn't look all that life threatening to do. 

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Ann Mack

Ann Mack

(edited)

Thea  was the first to volunteer to go save Sara's soul, then Oliver, then Oliver asked Laurel. Laurel didn't even volunteer for that trip. On top of that it didn't look all that life threatening to do. 

Was Laurel poorly acting that the trip (on the way there) was suppose to be causing her some discomfort? Constantine and Oliver were pretty much quiet but Laurel yelled out something I thought she Banshee screamed "Oliver"s name but I could be wrong.

 

That mind trip into another realm was just horrible and too damn rushed. Its like the writers, production, Oliver & Constantine, the special effect guys EVERYONE was just over this whole thing by the time it happened.

Edited by Ann Mack
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tv echo

tv echo

Collider gave 405 a mixed review...

 

‘Arrow’ Recap: “Haunted” – Constantine Conjures up a Crossover
BY DAVE TRUMBORE      12 HOURS AGO
http://collider.com/arrow-recap-haunted-season-4-episode-5/

... I can’t help but feel like they tried to do way too much with too little time. The result was an incredibly fun episode that moved at a crazy clip, but lacked any room to explore the true emotional depth the writers attempted to resolve.
*  *  *
Of course Oliver and the rest of the team figure out that Sara is back once they see her in the flesh, which leads to a blow-up between Oliver and the deceitful duo of Thea and Laurel. It’s tough to keep all the lies, double-crosses, betrayals and resurrections straight at this point, but essentially Oliver is mad at Laurel for not telling him she resurrected her dead sister, while Laurel is justifiably pissed at him for never trusting her as an equal. There are lots of emotions and accusations flying back and forth in this episode, along with a lot of blame and double-standards to go around; unfortunately, Laurel comes out looking the worst for all of it....
*  *  *
... Constantine takes Oliver and Laurel with him into the shadows of Sara’s mind. What unfolds is ... not the best fight ever. Oliver takes out a pair of assassins who were keeping Sara’s “soul” penned up in a facsimile of the Lazarus Pit while Constantine deals with a third through a combination of magic and swordsmanship. All it took to free Sara’s soul was for Laurel and Oliver to work together to, well, pull her out of the water… Not the greatest resolution, but I was here for Constantine anyway.
*  *  *
Here’s where I have a problem with tonight’s episode. You can have the fun and craziness that “Haunted” had in spades, or you can have deep, emotional resolutions between characters; you can’t have both because there’s simply not enough time. This episode tried to have it both ways and ended up short-changing the latter. The issues of trustworthiness between Oliver and Thea, or Oliver and Laurel run way deeper than a mere soul-saving and a hug can cure. I did like that “Haunted” spared a few quiet moments for Oliver and Felicity to talk about the people they’ve lost, with Oliver saying that although he wished he could see his parents and Tommy Merlyn again, the Lazarus Pit would only make things worse. Sadly, this brief moment was the only one that felt real in the episode.
*  *  *
Poor Oliver has to whisper every time he wants to shout at Laurel.
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tv echo

tv echo

Arrow, Ep. 4.05, “Haunted”
Randy Dankievitch  November 5, 2015
http://www.popoptiq.com/arrow-haunted-review/

... “Haunted” is a much better episode than it has any right to be, which can only be attributed to the presence of the magical, wise-cracking John Constantine.
 

Just look at every scene not featuring Constantine: outside of the barbs Damien Darhk tosses at Quentin, everything without Constantine is lifeless and silly as the rest of the season. This is led by Laurel, of course, whose character makes a strong point about Oliver’s hypocrisy as the Arrow, but has absolutely no way of backing it up. Her conversation with Ollie outside Thea’s hospital bed is one of the most frustrating exchanges I’ve ever watched on Arrow: while she’s right to point out Oliver treats others as his supporting characters and not ‘equals’, Laurel hasn’t exactly impressed when thinking or acting on her own, behavior we can trace back to the show’s earliest episodes. Arrow as a show has never placed Laurel on an equal intellectual level with Oliver (or physical: notice how her sister knocks her out with one punch twice in this episode), and it’s odd for them to have her point that out now, days after she resurrected her dead sister and allowed her to get loose and start murdering people around the city.
 

Now, I’m not trying to shame Laurel’s character: but from the pilot episode, the writing for Laurel’s been the most uneven of the show. Consider her alcoholism, the defining factor of her character in season two, and early in three: I had completely forgotten about that part of her life, until Quentin mentions she still goes to AA meetings. Wouldn’t we see her struggle with this life-long disease a little more, if it was really that important to her character? It’s inconsistencies like those that ultimately define Laurel’s character as a cipher for the show’s most bullshit turns, creating unnecessary conflict by compromising a character who should be viewed as more intelligent than Ollie: she’s the fucking district attorney of one of the most crime-ridden cities in the world, and doing a good enough job that she was still hired after spending half a season shitfaced at work. She is an intelligent woman, but Arrow never wants her to be – which makes it feel really weird when they point it out, when the show’s in full recovery mode after her latest engineered stunt (which she almost backs away from – she’s ready to kill her sister before Oliver steps in, again saving Laurel from her idiotic self. What a hero!).
*  *  *
... We’re spending so much time on Ray Palmer (Curtis uncovers a recording that says he’s still alive – surprise!) and Sara Lance, it feels like Arrow’s core stories are being lost in the mix...

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Yahoo gave 405 a positive review and thought that Constantine was worked into the show really well...

 

'Arrow' Recap: John Constantine Is the Godfather of Soul
Robert Chan  November 4, 2015
https://www.yahoo.com/tv/arrow-recap-haunted-john-constantine-matt-ryan-025527659.html

Objectively, what Laurel did — bringing her sister back from the dead — is dumb. Literally everyone she talked to told her it was a bad idea, then she did it and people started dying, and she still pretended like she was doing the right thing.
 

But from the perspective of her relationship with Oliver, she’s right: He got to bring his sister back. Why not hers? Everything sort of works out — Laurel and Ollie and Thea all apologize for keeping secrets, and Sara’s now presumably back to normal (aside from that pesky bloodlust) — but let’s not forget that it took a bunch of dead muggers and the lives of at least two girls whose only crime was looking kind of like Thea to make it happen.

Edited by tv echo
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tv echo

tv echo

io9 reviewer thought that Alex was the best character in 405 (this review is pretty funny)...

 

This Arrow Episode Is Filled with Magic, and John Constantine Is Just One Part of It
Esther Inglis-Arkell   11/05/15 10:00am
http://io9.com/this-arrow-episode-is-filled-with-magic-and-john-const-1740715003

Technically, the headline character for this episode is John Constantine, but the character that kicks off the episode’s emotional arc is Alex Davis, Ollie’s new political strategist. You know that game where you end every fortune cookie fortune with the words, “in bed”? This guy could end every line he says with, “you idiot.”
 

Oliver: “I don’t know why I need a political strategist.”
Alex: “After you win you still need to be able to govern . . . you idiot.”
 

Oliver: “What has you concerned, my lack of experience?”
Alex: “No, no we can spin that. I’m talking about . . . your personal Chappaquiddick . . . you idiot.”
 

Oliver: *understanding that he means Sara dying on the boat* “I don’t think people care about my friendship with Laurel Lance and an eight-year-old scandal.”
Alex: “You’re right, you idiot. I’m sorry, you idiot. I forgot how the electorate always cares about the issues and has zero appetite for scandal . . . you idiot.”
*  *  *
... The once fanatically loyal daughter is now utterly unrepentant that she neglected to tell her father that her sister’s reanimated corpse has escaped from her basement. The woman who demanded that no one ever go outside the law is now wearing a mask, choking her rampaging sister, and scolding, “You have got to stop this!” And the woman who once told Ollie to stay away from her is now shrieking about how Ollie doesn’t love her family enough.
 

Laurel! He banged fifty percent of your family! I’m willing to bet that he will bag your mom before this series ends. (Arrow Writers: Please do this. Doesn’t Alex Kingston deserve a fun day after all that hard work she did on Doctor Who?) How much more can he love your family? The man can hardly stay hydrated as it is!
*  *  *
First I like that in the soul purgatory world that Laurel, Ollie, and John go to, Laurel runs out of frame—only to run right back in from the other side like an old Nintendo character. And then tries it again, because she has less ability to use logic than an old Nintendo character. I also like that Sara is trapped in a Lazarus pit and Ollie and Laurel have to get her out together, like a mystical team-building exercise. And I like that getting a woman’s soul back from the underworld takes less than two minutes. Why drag it out?

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Starfish35

Starfish35

(edited)

Laurel runs out of frame—only to run right back in from the other side like an old Nintendo character. And then tries it again, because she has less ability to use logic than an old Nintendo character.

I am literally crying right now. This is hilarious. Please tell me the writers read these reviews.

It actually makes me feel better that a lot of these reviews are shredding the episode, or at least Laurel's part in it. I was afraid more of them would be like TVLine. It probably doesn't make sense, but it bothers me less when TV writers do dumb things when the critics don't let them get away with it.

Edited by Starfish35
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Chaser

Chaser

Maybe I'm not seeing a lot of the reviews but I'm surprised at how many I have read where the reviewers are like NOPE with Laurel. Whether it's totally befuddlement, humor, annoyance, etc.. they aren't here for it.

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

(edited)

I've read all the ones posted here and the AV Club review (which is normally pro-Laurel) and even they were calling the character out.  I'm sure a few will come out that are Yay! Laurel Rocks but so far I haven't seen it.  Which is surprising because I fully expected most reviewers to go the TV Line way and just repeat the CW/PR/EPs talking points of Laurel is fixed everything is great you all must love her now!

http://www.avclub.com/tvclub/green-arrow-meets-john-constantine-227968

 

Still, Constantine isn’t really the focus of “Haunted.” Laurel is, and that’s where the episode runs into trouble. What drives so much of the conflict between Laurel and Oliver is his inability to see her as an equal. On a meta level, what we’re really talking about here is the fact that Oliver tends to act like he’s the protagonist of a superhero TV show, which isn’t exactly surprising, all things considered.

 

Felicity, for instance, is the show’s breakout character, and she’s more than capable of leading her own ongoing (crossover-building) subplots and the occasional spotlight episode, but she’s still fundamentally the comic relief and emotional support for Oliver. Her feelings matter, but her wisecracks tend to matter more on an episode-by-episode basis. Thea, on the other hand, has been developed to the point where her emotional complexity rivals that of her br

 

Laurel, on the other hand … well. Her character can work in the right situations, and the last several episodes have established that Katie Cassidy is at her best when trading one-liners and being part of the vigilante team—when she’s a supporting character, in other words. Maybe there was a way for Laurel to be something more, but neither the creative team nor Cassidy ever hit upon a compelling way to deepen her character.

 

She just isn’t a strong enough character for her perspective—that she had to protect Sara, and Oliver would not have been the ally she needed—to read as anything as but petulance, and even little things like her repeatedly running after the sound of Sara’s shrieking soul plays as gullibility instead of heroic caring.

 

Edited by Morrigan2575
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NumberCruncher

NumberCruncher

I don't know how else they should have reacted to her because she came off looking really selfish in this episode without having to take any responsibility since Sara's restoration pretty much ended up completely on Oliver to fix. That's why I said over in the episode thread that I was perplexed as to why everyone thought this was supposed to be Laurel's redemption episode. Clearly most of the reviewers are simply reacting as similarly as the audience.

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

I don't know how else they should have reacted to her because she came off looking really selfish in this episode without having to take any responsibility since Sara's restoration pretty much ended up completely on Oliver to fix. That's why I said over in the episode thread that I was perplexed as to why everyone thought this was supposed to be Laurel's redemption episode. Clearly most of the reviewers are simply reacting as similarly as the audience.

it's two things, one being Matt M at TV Line's tweets about Laurel's redemption and the show addressing the issues and fixing the character and two, the fact that the EPs and text of the episode wants us to believe that everything in Laurel Land is now perfect.  She's mended her relationship with Oliver and now everyone wants to be her bestie.

 

I definitely think the EPs intended this to be the Laurel Lance redemption Episode 2015...to go along with all of the previous attempts to redeem the character (win the audience over).  It's an annual event :D

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

Yeah, these are some of the articles in my unscientific review that make me think the redemption tour was a fail.  The majority, like the large majority, of comments on the articles are also shredding Laurel.  AVclub has some particularly mean/funny comments.  

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Sakura12

Sakura12

I'm sure the EP's are shocked that this 100th "Please like Laurel" has failed. I honestly think like that one review said that the writers blackout when writing Laurel storylines and have no idea what they wrote and put it into production anyway. 

 

Because how can they not see how Laurel is coming across? First it was keeping Sara's death a secret and using her voice to trick her father (apparently we were supposed to love that and not be disgusted by it) then it was resurrecting Sara after everyone tells her it's a horrible idea and have her not tell anyone that Sara was on a murdering rampage for an entire week! (and we were supposed to see Laurel as a loving sister, not a delusional lunatic that doesn't listen to anyone because she doesn't want to be judged for being a delusional lunatic)

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Sakura12

Sakura12

From the reviews and what I've been reading, the supposed Laurel redemption arc has managed to turn even more people against her. haha

 

She has her devoted fans but even they have to be like WTF show?

 

Maybe that'll change next week with the sister's fighting together. But if Sara is still suffering from the bloodlust while Laurel gets off scot free I don't see that happening. 

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tv echo

tv echo

Questions and WTF moments from WhatCulture...

 

Arrow Season 4: 12 Questions We're Asking After 'Haunted'
Hello, John Constantine!
5 Nov 2015  James Hunt
http://whatculture.com/tv/arrow-season-4-12-questions-were-asking-after-haunted.php

 

Arrow Season 4: 15 WTF Moments From 'Haunted'
6 Nov 2015  Andrew Pollard
http://whatculture.com/tv/arrow-season-4-15-wtf-moments-from-haunted.php

11. Rumbled!
When Sara Lance was brought back from the dead a few episodes ago, the big question was how long would it take before Oliver found out about this doomed resurrection.
 

Many thought that this may be dragged out for a little while, and as such it was a bit of a shocker to see Ollie cast eyes upon Sara during the early goings of Haunted.
 

What’s even more WTF about this whole situation is that when Oliver questions Laurel about this, she gets pissed at him. Right, because that makes a load of sense…
 

And again, the poor writing of the Laurel Lance character continues.
*  *  *
9. Laurel Berates Oliver
With Thea in the hospital as a result of the crazed master assassin that Laurel brought back from the dead, Ollie again confronts Laurel about just what exactly she was thinking.
 

But again Laurel turns the tables and blames all of this on Oliver, calling him a hypocrite and citing the fact that he took Thea to the Lazarus Pit when she’d been attacked by Ra’s al Ghul. The thing is, as Ollie rightfully points out, Thea wasn’t dead and Sara was.
 

This whole thing again made Laurel Lance look stupid, and things got even worse when she pulls him up for not seeing her as an equal. If he doesn’t see her as his equal, that’s rightly so at this point!
*  *  *
7. Laurel Pulls a Gun
So the last two episodes have been about Laurel Lance justifying to anyone and everyone about why bringing Sara back from the dead was a good thing, even going as far as talking her dad out of shooting Sara and putting her out of her misery.
 

With that in mind, it was a massive WTF moment to then see Laurel pull a gun on her sister when Team Arrow try to take down Sara.
 

Supposedly Sara is the erratic and unhinged one, but this moment just made Laurel again look ridiculous.

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

JustAboutWrite's review is quite lengthy (I've only quoted portions, so you may want to read the whole article)...

 

Arrow 4x05 "Haunted" (Something's Made Your Eyes Go Cold)
6:00 PM 
http://www.itsjustaboutwrite.com/2015/11/arrow-4x05-haunted-somethings-made-your.html

Unfortunately, Arrow has decided to go a similar route with Laurel Lance. Once a confident and competent attorney, this woman's characterization has taken a downward turn over the years, following the same trajectory that Britta Perry's did. Laurel has become brash, insensitive, and judgmental. She talks about Oliver's judgement but Laurel can be just as judgy too, sometimes, and condescending.
 

You all know that I fight for female characters. I try to never be the kind of person who puts down a female character in order to prop another one up. So that's why I try my hardest to not compare Laurel and Felicity or Thea and Sara. Those four women are completely different with separate identities and wants and desires. But — I'm sure you knew this one was coming — I can't simply overlook characterization or writing flaws, either. I can't say that just because a character is a woman, she doesn't deserve criticism — that just because she's a woman and I'm a feminist, I have to like her. Because I did like Laurel Lance for a long time. I understood her and I did my best to understand her story and her strengths and weaknesses.
 

... But "Haunted" pretty much cemented the fact that Laurel's reckless and rash behavior will not only continue throughout this series, but will also be excused in some way, shape, or form. Laurel is an addict, and I think that alcohol and drugs are stumbling blocks for her just as much as self-righteousness is. Because you see, even though she apologizes to Thea in "Haunted" for bringing Sara back to life and, you know, essentially marking Thea for death in the process, it doesn't feel real. It doesn't feel like Laurel has learned a lesson. And really, in fact, it feels like if she had to do it all over again, she would have made the same decision (except maybe using different shackles for Sara).
*  *  *
The Arrow writers can write monologues or fights or reunions all they would like that involve Laurel. They can wax poetic about the importance of her being a part of Team Arrow and how she's growing. But I don't see that, from a writing perspective. All I see is a woman who keeps making similar mistakes and only learns fragments — crumbs, really — of lessons, then blames the rest of the world for her problems and gets angry at others. Laurel constantly acts and treats others like the world is out to get her and she's the only one making the right decisions. She justifies bad behavior and poor decision-making and only — ONLY — pauses long enough to think about the ramifications of her actions when they have heavy consequences. And even then, she still manages to try and place the blame on someone else. So really, Sara almost killing Thea? That's not HER fault... it's Oliver's. Because Oliver never told her about Thea's near-death, Lazarus Pit experience. And if he had — if he had treated Laurel like an equal and clued her into everything — then maybe she wouldn't have decided to bring Sara back from the dead and Thea wouldn't be in danger.
 

... Literally, that's basically what Laurel says in her hallway fight. But in "Haunted" it takes Laurel Lance far too long to realize that what she did was not smart, and even when she DOES realize it, she only takes the blame for part of the situation, framing the entire dilemma in a larger picture in which she's disrespected and makes poor decisions because of it.

Edited by tv echo
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

About that dead peacock feather...

 

Arrow Quietly Took A Shot At NBC During The Constantine Episode
BY ADAM HOLMES  16 HOURS AGO
http://www.cinemablend.com/television/Arrow-Quietly-Took-Shot-NBC-During-Constantine-Episode-97227.html

 

3 Big Reasons Constantine Needs To Come Back To Arrow
BY LAURA HURLEY  YESTERDAY
http://www.cinemablend.com/television/3-Big-Reasons-Constantine-Needs-Come-Back-Arrow-97057.html

 

Also, check out Laura Hurley's latest joke tweets (they're hilarious!)...

https://twitter.com/lah9891

Laura Hurley ‏@lah9891  23h23 hours ago
LL: "Do you like my suit and choker?"
SL: "You're not going by my old name, right?"
LL:"Right."
SL:"Then I love it!"
#laurawritesarrow
Laura Hurley ‏@lah9891  23h23 hours ago
OQ:"LAUREL IS THE BLACK CANARY?"
LL: "WTF?!"
OQ:"Annoying, right?"
LL:"..."
OQ: "I'm right."
#laurawritesarrow
Laura Hurley ‏@lah9891  23h23 hours ago
OQ:"I'm a lawyer!"
LL:"You didn't go to law school!"
OQ:"I've been to court a few times."
LL:"..."
OQ:"We're equals now."
#laurawritesarrow
Laura Hurley ‏@lah9891  23h23 hours ago
OQ: "And now the other sister!"
Constantine: "She already has a soul."
OQ:"..."
Constantine:"..."
OQ: "Are you sure?
#laurawritesarrow
Laura Hurley ‏@lah9891  24h24 hours ago
Constantine: "I'll give you a bonus exorcism!"
OQ: "Oh no. That's just her personality."
LL:"I don't need your judgment."
#laurawritesarrow
Laura Hurley ‏@lah9891  24h24 hours ago
OQ: "Hey, Barry, remember when I got all my skills & abilities by being struck by lightning?"
BA:"No?"
OQ: "Me neither."
#laurawritesflarrow
Edited by tv echo
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Guest

Guest

Perhaps it's just me, but nothing I saw on Arrow made me even remotely interested in watching anything to do with Constantine, although I did enjoy him on the show. Which is weird, I know.

 

Same. They should just keep him as a guest star every now and then for the DC TV universe. He can pop up on any of the shows.

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Sakura12

Sakura12

I will give them one thing Laurel's personality has been consistent throughout the the 4 seasons. She's the worst. 

 

Blaming everyone else for her problems is what she's always done. No wonder Oliver took Sara on a month long cruise. I would hate to think about being stuck in a confined space with Laurel for that long. "Why would you take us out during a storm, Oliver. These choppy waves are making my champagne spill everywhere. This is all your fault" 

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Here's one review that appears to be on Laurel's side and also brings up the possibility of a GA/BC romantic pairing...

 

Same Geek Channel: ‘Arrow’ Episode 4.05 “Haunted”
Posted on 6 November, 2015 by Joey L. Mills
http://geekdad.com/2015/11/sgc-arrow-4-05/

Laurel lost her sister once, in the shipwreck. Then Sara came back, and Laurel didn’t like it. Once Laurel put down the bottle, the two sisters were able to repair their relationship. The Sara died again. In the aftermath of Sara’s latest death, Laurel alienated her father. Now, Sara is up and ambulatory –sans soul– because Laurel decided that she wanted her sister back. To have Ollie standing in the hospital where Thea is in bed because of Sara’s attack is more than Laurel can take. She calls BS on Ollie and his lying and secret-keeping and “I’m a hero and you’re not so ha ha” attitude.
*  *  *
Ollie knows that Laurel is right. He hasn’t been the stand-up guy toward the Lance family that Ollie says he wants to be. When the political strategist that Thea hired to oversee Ollie’s mayoral campaign tells Ollie to distance himself from the Lance’s, Ollie is too quick to see the guy’s point, even if it looks like the kid is still working on his Bachelor’s degree. Thea talks some sense into Ollie and that’s when Ollie uses what has to be one of the last of his remaining lifelines to phone a friend.
*  *  *
So, death watchers, what say you? This episode was all about what a person would do for a fallen sibling. Could Thea be our mystery corpse? I know there has been backlash every time I bring it up, but we have another episode where Ollie and Laurel are being brought closer together by the writers and producers. Does Felicity get bumped so we have our Green Arrow/Black Canary romantic pairing? Are they bringing the two together just to rip them apart with another death of another member of the Lance family? If so, then which one? Laurel? Quentin? Sara, again? Could Curtis become addicted to energy drinks and have his cardiac episode in May?
Edited by tv echo
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kismet

kismet

Here's one review that appears to be on Laurel's side and also brings up the possibility of a GA/BC romantic pairing...

 

Same Geek Channel: ‘Arrow’ Episode 4.05 “Haunted”

Posted on 6 November, 2015 by Joey L. Mills

http://geekdad.com/2015/11/sgc-arrow-4-05/

I will give her credit on giving a valid reason Curtis could be in the grave. Those energy drinks are bad for your heart/health. The rest of the article just feels like her very personal interpretation, hopes and speculation. But to each their own I guess.

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Guest

Guest

(edited)
I know there has been backlash every time I bring it up, but we have another episode where Ollie and Laurel are being brought closer together by the writers and producers. Does Felicity get bumped so we have our Green Arrow/Black Canary romantic pairing?

 

You can spot a GA/BC fan a mile away when they call him 'Ollie.' Shudder.

 

What was the other episode where the writers/producers were bringing O/L closer together? This was the first one, IMO, and even then they don't seem all that close. I find it laughable that even fans of GA/BC acknowledge that they'd have to kill off Felicity to make that pairing a possibility, which basically makes Laurel a second choice. Much romance. 

Edited by Guest
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Here's the short bio for the author of that GeekDad review:

About Joey L. Mills
Joey is a published author, part-time volunteer, and full-time stay-at-home husband and father of three special needs kids. When he gets a minute to himself, Joey enjoys DC comics, World of Warcraft, and following the Path of the Beam toward the Dark Tower.

http://geekdad.com/author/joey-l-mills/

Edited by tv echo
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