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The Starling City Times: News and Media about Arrow

Grammaeryn

By Grammaeryn
in Arrow

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Morrigan2575
Morrigan2575

I always find it odd when people blame the writing for LLs failure. I'll give them that for Lauiver because of the whole cheating thing but, let's be honest if SA/KC had the chemistry that SA/EBR had,

lemotomato
lemotomato

Sorry, that argument rings really hollow when the show has had a history of killing off/mistreating other female characters without a peep of protest from those same "concerned" people. Moira Queen, S

ComicFan777
ComicFan777

I know that this is supposed to be Felicity's dark arc, but...Felicity desperately doing whatever she can to save people (damn the consequences down the road) doesn't make me think that she's losing w

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Sunshine

Sunshine

I think the Oliver/ Tatsu & Oliver/Maseo relationships were my favorite relationships in S3.


Didn't Slade give him the Dragon tattoo back on The Amazo during The Promise?

Yes.

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Genki

Genki

(edited)

Didn't Slade give him the Dragon tattoo back on The Amazo during The Promise?

 

 Yes but he has Chinese characters on his torso, which is what I think was being referred to.

Edited by Genki
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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

(edited)

Yes but he has Chinese characters on his torso, which is what I think was being referred to.

He does? Huh, just confirms that I don't find SA/Oliver attractive, never paid enough attention to even notice those and I love tats Edited by Morrigan2575
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FurryFury

FurryFury

Hell I thought I was the only one. He's objectively handsome but he just lack the charisma that makes me attracted to an actor. It's not just about the looks for me, it's about the whole package. 

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Even though Arrow isn't mentioned in this article, it's related to older articles previously posted in this thread about the CW's aim with shows like Arrow and The Flash...

 

Inside the Office of The CW’s Mark Pedowitz
JUNE 4, 2015 | 09:00AM PT Geoff Berkshire
http://variety.com/2015/tv/awards/mark-pedowitz-office-cw-1201509849/

Then there’s the board with the current broadcast TV schedule, reinforcing his net’s sudden stability.  The CW’s most-watched season since 2008 produced dual sensations in “The Flash” and “Jane the Virgin.” As he notes, “I hope we put the final nail in the coffin (of the perception) that we’re a young girls’ network.”
Edited by tv echo
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

This is a really interesting article (recommend you read the whole thing)...

 

Where's the love? Why superhero TV shows are so reluctant to include romance.
Alice Walker   June 5, 2015
http://theweek.com/articles/558641/wheres-love-why-superhero-tv-shows-are-reluctant-include-romance

The welcome exception to this platonic epidemic is The CW. ­Arrow and The Flash have no shortage of romances that form the backbone of both episodes and story arcs — and the shows have repeatedly reaped the benefits in both viewership and critical acclaim. The main storyline of Arrow ‘s third season followed Oliver Queen as he struggled with his double identity. It's a compelling story in its own right — but the internal crisis mattered so much more because it affected whether he could be with Felicity Smoak. Without that relationship, the decision would affect just one character, halving its impact.

 

What makes The CW different than its superheroic rivals? It is actively targeting young adults between the ages of 18 and 34. In an interview with The Hollywood Reporter, network president Mark Pedowitz discussed how they planned to expand their audience reach: "We'll continue to service women 18-to-34, but the goal is to broaden it to an 18-to-34 adult audience." Superhero shows like Arrow and The Flash are their efforts to court more men — and the shows prove that including romance in their DNA retains female viewers without alienating male viewers in the slightest.

 

TV shows can, of course, be terrific without a central romance. But given the clear opportunities in the source material, the lack of superhero romance is strange — especially when moments arise that show clear missed opportunities for the kind of increased emotional investment that comes when you build well-developed couples. Romance also adds weight and urgency to the bread and butter of comic book shows: characters in mortal peril. These stories are built entirely around fighting and battles, and the stakes increase tenfold when there are personal repercussions for losing someone. When Tripp died in Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.'s midseason finale, the characters quickly moved on. How much more impact would have been felt if he and Simmons had been in love, as the series occasionally teased and ultimately ignored?

 

This reluctance to include romance seems to be based on misguided fears about alienating certain segments of the audience. In an interview with HitFix, Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. producer Jed Whedon spoke openly about the wide age range he wanted his show to reach. "The fourth-grader and his mom will both enjoy the show for different reasons, but they'll laugh at the same jokes,” he said. “And while she might be there for the emotional character stuff and he might be there for the gadgets, we're hoping they're both there."

 

There's also the antiquated but enduring notion that superheroes — and comics in general — are made solely for boys, who are turned off by anything resembling a love story. Unfortunately, this stereotype remains pervasive; in an email leaked by the Sony hack, Marvel CEO Ike Perlmutter clearly expresses his belief that female-lead superhero movies cannot be profitable. "[Supergirl] came out in 1984 and did $14 million total domestic with opening weekend of $5.5 million. Again, another disaster." Even now, superheroes are drawn using thick gender lines, and romance runs the risk of only appealing to women — a risk executives clearly do not want to take.

 

Of course, anyone who's paying attention knows how ludicrous these concerns really are. With any luck, TV executives will get a clue, and stop treating a real, adult romance as the one challenge a superhero won't tackle.

Edited by tv echo
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FurryFury

FurryFury

Lack of romance on superhero shows? I want to get whatever this author's smoking. The only comic book show that has proved it doesn't care about romance is Agents of SHIELD (and even it has managed to piss me off by teasing Fitz-Simmons at the end of season 2 and has just upgraded Skye's probable new love interest to regular). Agent Carter was all about Peggy and Steve - only without Steve, but the romantic part was still heavily present, Daredevil had the (absolutely unnecessary and thankfully brief) Matt and Claire romance and is obviously slowly building up Matt and Karen, both The Flash and Arrow have force-fed us big "epic" romances ever since their pilots (both were horrible imho, Arrow was lucky enough to get rid of it though), Supergirl will be definitely teasing Kara and Jimmy Olsen... I just don't understand this writer.

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kismet

kismet

Arrow: 12 Mind-Blowing Fan Theories You Won’t Believe

James Hunt   5 Jun, 2015

http://whatculture.com/tv/arrow-12-mind-blowing-fan-theories-you-wont-believe.php

Most of the theories we have already discussed here. Perhaps we were inspiration. My theory that OQ's son will be Green Arrow was top, so at least I'm not the only one that thinks it. :)

 

The only theory that I just can't stomach and that I don't think the writers will touch with 10ft pole is that Felicity is really Robert Queen's child. That is just too much over the incestual line considering they have established a O/F relationship. A few years back one of my guilty pleasures soap Passions did a similar storyline with a couple who we're not known to be siblings and then became possible siblings and it was just too much even for a crazy boundary crossing soap opera like Passions. I just can't imagine the writers really wanting to take the story there. Having the Isabel sex connection was one thing for shock value & great eew reactions. But it would just be beyond shock if they went the unsuspecting siblings in a relationship route for one of their main couples. Frankly, I feel like the writers have a little more class & intelligence to bring the storyline there. The other theories on her father (Jim Gordon, Stein, Darhk) were fine and would make for interesting story prospects.

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tarotx

tarotx

(edited)

No way Mama Smoak would encourage her daughter and Oliver if Robert was Felicity's dad. So even for this incest loving show it wouldn't be believable. Imo.

Edited by tarotx
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Delphi

Delphi

I also don't think that felicity's papa will be Stein. With their actual twenty year age gap, but I think Donna is actually supposed to be younger than Charlotte.

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ruby24

ruby24

(edited)

I love romance on shows, I'm just so over the idea of dragging out a will they/won't they story for entire seasons. I mean, in this case I'm indifferent to O/F as a whole, but if they had decided to put them together, which they obviously had at least by Season 2, was there any reason to drag that out for the entire third season? Never mind that it made everyone mopey- the only real reason I can see is that they seemed to want Felicity to be with someone else on the show first (Ray), before finally getting together with Oliver. I guess because she hadn't been with anyone yet, while Oliver slept with almost every woman he met until this year.

 

I just don't see why that was necessary. Same on The Flash, where the only real reason they saddled Iris with a stupid and pointless boyfriend all season long was so she'd have a reason not to get with Barry as long as possible.

 

I just don't see why things have to be prolonged for so long on these shows- frankly, ten episodes at most of will they/won't they crap seems like more than enough time to start feeling like forever. Maybe I've gotten so used to cable shows with their 10-13 episode seasons (I haven't watched network TV in a few years) that I've forgotten how LONG storylines like this have to drag on for. But it really feels like forever when you delay stuff for two whole seasons on a network show, because it translates to two years in real time, and it just gets irritating by the time it finally happens.

 

I also object to the idea that the tease is better than the relationship- I have never understood why you can't have people be good together as a couple. They can still be romantic and funny, work together as a pair, etc. Again, I don't quite know how that will work with O/F in particular (she's funny but he's not, so unless they figure out a way to lighten him up, I don't really know how it'll play). But on a lighter show like The Flash, you could definitely have couples that work as a solid pair, imo.

Edited by ruby24
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lemotomato

lemotomato

Not sure where to post about "Arrow" merch, but I just got my Oliver Queen Funko Pop! today and saw that there are some not-yet-announced figures listed on the back of the box: 5PcWlsc.jpg

Interesting decision on their part to make a Diggle figure, but in the Arrow suit rather than as himself. 

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statsgirl

statsgirl

Since there's still no Felicity, I can only imagine that having a costume is the cost of admission to the club.

 

I'm kind of worried that next season with Diggle getting his own costume, Felicity as part of Team Arrow/a hero will be marginalized even more.

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FurryFury

FurryFury

I can't agree that will-they-or-won't-they can't be done well. I was just watching Bates Motel (which I've been mentioning in the Small Talk thread) and it actually has a really great pairing of this type which works very well. Of course, that show has 10 episodes per season, not 22, and is well-written, unlike Arrow. But still, it's just a trope. Sometimes it can be pulled off well, sometimes it cannot. Depends on the writers, as usual.

 

Also, think about it - if these writers can't even write this part of relationship well do you really believe they can do the post-hook-up period justice? It will either be boring or quickly devolve into a horrible melodrama. No third option, most likely.

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ruby24

ruby24

I think it can work, but to a degree. Dragging it out for something like 45 episodes over two years is just insanely long to me now. Like I said, a period of a couple of months wets your appetite for it enough, an entire season is pushing it, two whole seasons feels like overkill. Especially when they have to do so many episodes, after a while it changes from longing to tedious.

 

The shorter cable seasons do kind of force things to happen, which is a good thing, imo.

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Chaser

Chaser

I skimmed that review and the only thing that stuck out to me is the gif of Laurel turning back and smiling at Tommy. I didn't remember that scene, but I had seen that gif...except it was in a Laurel and Oliver gifset and it was implied that she was looking at Oliver.  Am I remembering this wrong was there ever a similar shot of Oliver and Laurel?

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Starfish35

Starfish35

I'm enjoying her recaps. It's almost inspiring me to start a rewatch of my own . The one big thing that I keep getting struck by is how smart Oliver was early on. I miss smart Oliver.

(Sadly this is also a problem I'm having re-watching Flash episodes this summer.

Barry was kind of a CSI genius early on - sadly we lost that as the season went along.)

  • Love 7
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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

I skimmed that review and the only thing that stuck out to me is the gif of Laurel turning back and smiling at Tommy. I didn't remember that scene, but I had seen that gif...except it was in a Laurel and Oliver gifset and it was implied that she was looking at Oliver.  Am I remembering this wrong was there ever a similar shot of Oliver and Laurel?

Yes, at the nightclub, when Oliver says he doesn't want to be on an island anymore.  The episode before the one in which he ditches Digg to help Laurel, I believe.

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foreverevolving

foreverevolving

My biggest issue with her recaps is that she sometimes seems to always fail to take into consideration that the new info we now have was not known or decided upon when the episodes filmed/aired. like the Thea/Tommy thing.. at that point (of the episode airing, the ep's were months away from deciding to kill Tommy, and even more months away (I think even almost a year) from deciding to make Thea Malcolm's daughter. so yes now when we think about it there's an ick factor, but you can't let influence your review.. or at least make a comment about the changed view because of the new info, but..

But i may be reacting to that part because I was shipped Tommy and Thea together and wanted him to end up with her rather than with Laurel (I always felt he deserved so much better than her).

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catahoulamama

catahoulamama

My biggest issue with her recaps is that she sometimes seems to always fail to take into consideration that the new info we now have was not known or decided upon when the episodes filmed/aired. like the Thea/Tommy thing.. at that point (of the episode airing, the ep's were months away from deciding to kill Tommy, and even more months away (I think even almost a year) from deciding to make Thea Malcolm's daughter. so yes now when we think about it there's an ick factor, but you can't let influence your review.. or at least make a comment about the changed view because of the new info, but..

But i may be reacting to that part because I was shipped Tommy and Thea together and wanted him to end up with her rather than with Laurel (I always felt he deserved so much better than her).

If I'm not mistaken, I'm pretty sure the point of her recaps now of the previous seasons is to do it with the knowledge of what we know now at the end of S3. I don't think they're meant to be straight up recaps for new viewers and/or those not current through S3.

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foreverevolving

foreverevolving

I understand that, but at the same time (and maybe it's just me) she should have some reason and balance in those recaps... it's not like these characters were aware of the genetic connection so what ever flirting they did was done while being ignorant of it, and most specifically neither were the writers & ep's aware of it since they have yet to make that decision; so saying "icky" to that just seems... too emotional, she's using future knowledge to comment on something.. or, and this may be more accurate, she's using her hindsight 20/20 knowledge in a non balanced way and it throws the entire recap off course, in my opinion.

 

So yea, it's just a lack of balance that a "20/20" should give you is very much lacking, actually it's lacking in all of her recaps.

 

With that being said... the entire wedding theory thing she had going on (even though I was fine with the theory in and of itself) kind of made me a be meh to her writing. so it could be that it's coloring my view of her recaps.

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catahoulamama

catahoulamama

I haven't read her recaps, but had seen she was going back and doing a rewatch and recapping with current knowledge in mind. I thought maybe you thought they were meant to be legit "first time watching" type recaps, which is why I posted in the first place. 

 

The whole wedding theory hysteria turned me off of tumblr in general, so I totally get what you're saying.

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Great article by Laura Hurley (imo)...

 

Arrow Season 4: 5 Reasons Why The Comics Shouldn’t Matter
Laura Hurley   8 Jun 2015
http://whatculture.com/tv/arrow-season-4-5-reasons-why-the-comics-shouldnt-matter.php

Part of the fun of any television series is watching characters develop and grow as the narrative finds its footing. Characters are juggled as producers discover which click on screen and which storylines are compatible and which actors play best off of one another. Daryl Dixon on The Walking Dead took on a life of his own when his surly redneck ways meshed with the cast, Logan became de facto male lead on Veronica Mars thanks to chemistry with the protagonist, and both Diggle and Felicity on Arrow carved their niches by bringing qualities that Oliver never thought that he’d need in his life. Developments delight, and organic characterization can make a show.
*   *   *
Transference is even more impossible for Arrow. There are decades of material composed by a variety of writers adhering to a variety of canons within at least one reboot of the entire DC universe. Transference of every major storyline for the Green Arrow to Arrow is literally impossible.

 

It is therefore essential that everybody both behind the scenes and behind the screens remember that Arrow is an adaptation of source material. Divergences from DC lore have, can, and will happen. The Oliver Queen of Arrow is not the Ollie Queen of the comics. The Laurel Lance of Arrow is not the Dinah Laurel Lance of the comics. Archvillains Dark Archer and Slade Wilson and Ra’s al Ghul of Arrow are not the archvillains of the comics. Felicity Smoak was from a different series, and John Diggle didn’t even exist within the comics until recently. The only way to enjoy both mediums is to accept them as fundamentally separate.

 

5.  No Homework Required
4.  Character Destinies
3.  Focus on Oliver
2.  Plot Changes
1.  Adaptation

 

ETA:  If you like her writing, you may also wish to read her latest tumblr posts at http://laurawritesabout.tumblr.com/tagged/Arrow

Edited by tv echo
  • Love 2
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

I'm actually surprised to find a pro-Felicity article posted at TV Overmind (I agreed with most, though not all, of this article)...

 

Arrow’s Laurel/Felicity Divide: Why I Still Loved Felicity Smoak in Season 3
By Laura Schinner on Jun 8, 2015
http://www.tvovermind.com/arrow/arrow-season-3-laurel-lance-felicity-smoak-divide-why-i-still-loved-felicity-smoak-259436

 

ETA:  From what I've read, most of the writers at TV Overmind, like almost all of the writers at MoviePilot, tend to be pro-GA/BC and anti-Olicity, anti-Felicity except as supporting comic relief (though they might not say it outright).

Edited by tv echo
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tarotx

tarotx

(edited)

All I know is that over at TV Overmind, the discussion replies I post where I question Laurel as BC or S4 MVP and/or are pro Sara take forever to appear but nasty misogynistic and anti gay post seem to post immediately going by the time stamp listed as posted.

Edited by tarotx
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Chaser

Chaser

(edited)

TV Overmind have posted articles praising Laurel, Diggle and now Felicity. They sound like they are trying to make the rounds.

 

MoviePilot - I have seen Pro- and Anti- articles for everything. I think there are generally more Anti because peope use them to vent (they assume getting it 'published' gives it crediblity). The vast majority of the articles are nonsensical.

Edited by 10Eleven12
  • Love 1
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kismet

kismet

This is jbuffyangel's very lengthy and detailed review of S3 (agree or disagree, she puts a lot of work into her articles)...

 

ARROW SEASON 3 WRAP UP REVIEW

jbuffyangel   JUNE 08, 2015 @ 02:28

http://jbuffyangel.tumblr.com/post/121006323118/arrow-season-3-wrap-up-review

 

Wow, that was gif heavy post! It was taking forever to load on my phone, that I gave up and went to my laptop - where it still took forever. The pics were nice though, brought back some good highlights. Glad she's giving LL & RP their own metas. Felt like she was losing insight by the end & just giving up on analyzing. She did bring up some good points, glossed over a lot & has a far more optimistic view of the show. I can't seem to overlook some of the pitfalls the show & characters took for shear plot purposes this year as easily as she can.

 

I will give her credit, she is a very good spinner. She can spin almost anything to fit her theories & perspective. What I do appreciate though is that she owns her bias. You know where she's coming from and you know she's not gonna change her personal bias. And she states her bias in her piece. Its not objective and she never claims that it is objective, so reading it becomes more enjoyable because it purely listening to someone's opinion & not reading something trying to masquerade as hard hitting journalistic review. I do also like that her writing style feels very personal as well as if she is talking to you.

  • Love 4
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Chaser

Chaser

Flipping thru WhatCulture and I passed the Arrow: 10 Things You Didn't Know about Katie Cassidy article. The picture next to it is a one of Sara with the tagline 'she's a lot more than just a Canary.' You would like they would at least use a photo of KC in an article about KC.

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

(edited)

I'm actually surprised to find a pro-Felicity article posted at TV Overmind (I agreed with most, though not all, of this article)...

Arrow’s Laurel/Felicity Divide: Why I Still Loved Felicity Smoak in Season 3

By Laura Schinner on Jun 8, 2015http://www.tvovermind.com/arrow/arrow-season-3-laurel-lance-felicity-smoak-divide-why-i-still-loved-felicity-smoak-259436

ETA: From what I've read, most of the writers at TV Overmind, like almost all of the writers at MoviePilot, tend to be pro-GA/BC and anti-Olicity, anti-Felicity except as supporting comic relief (though they might not say it outright).

That reminds me, I intended to mention before that over on KSite in the comment section responding to the Season final review, Craig said he'd welcome it if someone would submit a Case For Felicity type piece. I thought about trying tackle it myself but I keep getting bogged down in specific responses to posters in the forums (Occasionally I like the challenge) and haven't even thought of where to start on something like that.

Craig Byrne May 26, 2015 at 10:35 am - Reply

I totally would post a “Defense of Felicity Smoak” post on the site if someone wanted to write one.

I know that goes against the whole “GreenArrowTV is biased/unprofessional/sexist” narrative, but it would be fair and more in tune with what I would like for the website to be – a place for ALL fan groups.

I also agree with you about the romance thing – the only time I’ve really, 100% felt there was something there… and there wasn’t a whole lot of screen time devoted to it, but I still felt it… was Nyssa/Sara. Do I think there’s love involved on the show? Absolutely. I think that’s more of a symptom of TV in general… with such breakneck schedules it’s hard to grow a TV romance organically and at the right speed. JUST my own opinion, though.

Edited by BkWurm1
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kismet

kismet

That reminds me, I intended to mention before that over on KSite in the comment section responding to the Season final review, Craig said he'd welcome it if someone would submit a Case For Felicity type piece. I thought about trying tackle it myself but I keep getting bogged down in specific responses to posters in the forums (Occasionally I like the challenge) and haven't even thought of where to start on something like that.

 

If it means anything, I think you would be a good person to write a response that is fair & balanced. You could pull from some of the posts you have made here as a place to start. There are actually a couple posters/members here that could make very strong cases for Felicity. I'd be willing to help out. I love that Oliver & Felicity ended the season together, and think they make an organic couple. However, sadly I tend to be more of an Oliver fan than Felicity fan and feel that might weaken my stance as I see most of the show from his perspective. I want Felicity to have the best opportunity to shine, not sure I'm the best person to be the primary author of it. Also I completely forgot my password & user name to that website, I guess I could try to find it.

  • Love 1
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olicityfan25

olicityfan25

You should totally do it. It is unfair that he did that piece for Laurel without having pieces on every other character. He doesn't get the fact that by him singling out Katie Cassidy/Laurel is why this whole mess started.

  • Love 3
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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

Here is an attempt to encourage The CW to increase/remember to include Felicity in its marketing. The aim is to encourage the creation of promotional material, interviews, news articles and photoshoots or whatever one can think of. Detailed (and I mean detailed) instructions on how to start bringing it "old school" at the link.

http://smoakandarrow.tumblr.com/post/121034063634/operation-olicity-the-old-school-edition

I put it here because at least part of the goal is to create things for the news and media to print. Maybe it should go elsewhere or somewhere else as well?

  • Love 1
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

It sounds like he's just trying to drive more traffic to his website and to maintain his site's partnership(?) with the CW.  There have been a lot of pieces written in defense of Felicity both here and elsewhere (for example, several fan site pieces, media articles like the above TV Overmind article, Laura Hurley's tumblr writings, etc.).  If he really wants to be 'fair and balanced' (the slogan for Fox News, btw), then he should write his own damn piece in defense of every character on Arrow.

 

I think of the old Merlin tv miniseries, where Merlin (played by Sam Neill) turns his back on the evil Queen Mab, telling her that everyone will forget about her and, in forgetting, she will no longer exist.  Everyone leaves, ignoring Mab's cries, and she fades away..

Edited by tv echo
  • Love 6
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