Clock Tower Theater: Fanfic, Fan Music Videos and Art

[Morrigan2575]

I owe someone a list of authors I like but this week has been crazy and I haven't had the chance to sit down and pull a lousy together, sorry.

In the meantime, anyone else notice an odd trend in Olicity fanfic lately? I don't know if it's the same writer or same set of writers but I keep coming across an Iris/Tommy pairings. Nothing wrong with it just odd since Tommy is dead and Iris has two canonical love interests on her own show.

[lemotomato]

I've only seen two authors write Tommy/Iris, and yeah, it's a pretty crackship pairing if there ever was one. Personally, I can't picture Tommy with anyone but Laurel or Oliver in fanfic. (I have an inexplicable aversion to Tommy/Felicity in particular.)

[Guest]

I quite like Tommy/Felicity as flirty friends that drive Oliver crazy. No heat behind it, just friendly teasing. That's how I imagine they'd be if Tommy had lived. But yeah, Tommy/Iris is pretty random, at least to me because I don't really watch The Flash. I suppose if you're invested in both shows maybe? I don't know.

[TrueMyth]

I went to the little details lj comm to ask for specific stuff, I tried to remember my very rudimentary junior high Arabic course, and then I discarded most of a chapter because I didn't think it worked and rewrote it. So, no thank you. I remember reading some advice on writing, and I wish I could remember where it was from - go to the line or paragraph or sentence which you are most proud of. Then delete it. Because if you think it's so amazing, it must somehow jar with the rest of your writing (I'm not explaining this very well, but it certainly worked for me). I've been doing this so much lately.

 

Ooo, do you mean this LJ community?  Thanks so much for mentioning it.  I had no idea it existed.  I tend to think of LJ as dead space these days, as so many of my fandom friends have moved over to Tumblr.  Are there any other active Arrow communities out there?

 

I've heard that writing advice described as "kill your darlings," attributed to William Faulkner and elaborated on by Steven King.  I should really read his writing book some day.

 

Like you, I'm also enjoying this burst of inspiration from Arrow.  I have four fanficiton ideas right now!  Eep.  Now to move at least a few of them through the process before school starts back up again.

[dtissagirl]

OMG. @TrueMyth, I just realized I know you from the VMars LJ fandom! I'm dtissagirl on LJ. Actually I'm dtissagirl everywhere but here, hee. I should change that sometime.

[TrueMyth]

OMG. @TrueMyth, I just realized I know you from the VMars LJ fandom! I'm dtissagirl on LJ. Actually I'm dtissagirl everywhere but here, hee. I should change that sometime.

Hey!  Long time no-fandom-blather!  Nice to know you again.  I've noticed a fair number of the Veronica Mars fandom are fairly deep into Arrow these days.  I've always thought fandom intersections would be an interesting study for media analysis.

[dtissagirl]

Nice to see you back! :)

 

And yes, it's been pretty interesting meeting Arrow fans now that I knew on LJ like, a decade ago. Or read Arrow fic now from people I used to read on the regular in previous fandoms. Mostly from Veronica Mars, yes, but I recognize a few names on AO3 from my Buffy and Stargate days.

 

Funnily enough, my previous fandom was Smallville. Well, Chloe/Ollie. I couldn't care less for anything else. [#SorryNotSorry] But I've seen very very few authors from that little corner of fandom move on to Arrow. And I know a bunch of them are watching the show.

 

I guess it might be weird to write a different Oliver when so much of fic-writing is getting into the character's head? I don't write fic, but I do fanart sometimes, and I usually use lyrics to go with it -- I just cannot connect certain songs to Arrow because they're coded in my head as "Smallville Oliver".

[arjumand]

Ooo, do you mean this LJ community?  Thanks so much for mentioning it.  I had no idea it existed.  I tend to think of LJ as dead space these days, as so many of my fandom friends have moved over to Tumblr.  Are there any other active Arrow communities out there?

 

I've heard that writing advice described as "kill your darlings," attributed to William Faulkner and elaborated on by Steven King.  I should really read his writing book some day.

 

Like you, I'm also enjoying this burst of inspiration from Arrow.  I have four fanficiton ideas right now!  Eep.  Now to move at least a few of them through the process before school starts back up again.

 

Yes, that's the lj community I meant - it is truly amazing, and I go to it whenever I'm stuck on a detail which might seem insignificant but which won't leave me alone. It's true, lj does seem dead right now. I even stopped posting my fic there when I started getting more of a response on ffn and AO3, as both of those sites are easier to post to than lj. Another community which is still active is http://fanficrants.livejournal.com/ - well, it's relatively active. I too think lj is done for, which is sad.

 

I might have read the advice in the Stephen King book, then - not being American, I haven't read much Faulkner, but King used to be one of my favourite authors (did I stress 'used to be' enough? Because that's in the past).

 

Another good book about writing is Starve Better, by Nick Mamatas. One thing he points out is how writers nowadays (he didn't mean fanfic writers, but I've seen the trend there) tend to start a story like a tv episode, with a cold open, etc. I've noticed the tendency to include things like "Three weeks later", in italics, above a paragraph, and that's where, if I'm marking someone's work, I get out the green/purple pen (no, we're not allowed to use red anymore, because apparently it's upsetting - someone tell Coca cola and Santa Claus: red is bad) and make some pointed comments. You want a time-skip - write it in. TV is all about show, don't tell - the parts of last season's Arrow I don't like are the ones where the characters talk us to death (this also made me fall out of love with Supernatural - the number of times Dean was turned into the idiot who needed extra exposition because they thought the audience wouldn't get it: we got it! Sometimes, there was not much to get!), but when you write you can have lots of talking and lots of thinking. Another thing I'm seeing is something I'm already tired of on tv, let alone finding it in fic - start with something super dramatic and weird - cut to title card: 78 hours earlier! Ugh. And then we have to go through chapters and chapters to get to and explain that opening moment.

 

I looked for Arrow communities on lj, but couldn't find active ones, and I'm finding it difficult to get to grips with tumblr, to be honest.

[BkWurm1]

Was that the one in which there was something like a 7-year time jump in between Felicity marrying R'as al Ghul Oliver and the story resuming? Because that's when I just went 'game over, man'. To me, it's a cop out when you introduce some massive crazy universe altering concept, and then you do a "seven years later . . ." You need to commit to your universe. To be honest, those people weren't Felicity and Oliver, at least not what they are on the show

 

Or was that one the one where Ra's Ollie Guhl experiences his first fatal wound and has to take a dip into the LP and he comes out messed up....he thinks of himself as Oliver Queen and doesn't think he or Felicity should be in the LoA and she basically works really hard to bring back the LoA guy because that is the man she is in love with and then he thanks her afterward.  Shudder.   In this one they also have little children being trained to be assassins.

 

 

 

 

Funnily enough, my previous fandom was Smallville. Well, Chloe/Ollie. I couldn't care less for anything else. [#SorryNotSorry] But I've seen very very few authors from that little corner of fandom move on to Arrow. And I know a bunch of them are watching the show.

 

I guess it might be weird to write a different Oliver when so much of fic-writing is getting into the character's head? I don't write fic, but I do fanart sometimes, and I usually use lyrics to go with it -- I just cannot connect certain songs to Arrow because they're coded in my head as "Smallville Oliver".

I started thinking that most Smallville writers weren't even watching.   My pairing on Smallville will always be Chlark with a shallow appreciation of Chlollie (I'll occasionally read but I won't write) but most of the writers I know just wouldn't start watching Arrow.  Once burned twice shy.  

 

 Smallville Oliver might as well be a totally different character with a different name.  Very little in common between the two interpretations.  

 

It's never going to happen but I would love to graph all the fans (particularly those not fond of Olicity) past fandoms and who they favored.   I'm making a few educated guesses but I long for real data.       

 

I might have read the advice in the Stephen King book, then -

 

A year back I took a fiction writing class where Stephen King's book on writing was assigned reading.   It had some specifics but almost better than any advice on actual writing was advice on incorporating it into your normal life (and how to do that)

 

Along with the kill your darlings advice, we were told to plan on ruthless cutting of huge sections.  Anything holding back the story - even if they are wonderful and took tons of time and effort.  The teacher had just published a historical novel that in part followed his characters as they crossed the prairies and headed for Oregon.  100 pages and three months research was reduced to one sentence on their crossing.  I still struggle with brevity issues. 

 

.   

 Another thing I'm seeing is something I'm already tired of on tv, let alone finding it in fic - start with something super dramatic and weird - cut to title card: 78 hours earlier! Ugh. And then we have to go through chapters and chapters to get to and explain that opening moment.

 

I blame misguided understandings of the advice to start your story as far along as possible.  Hey if starting just as things are happening is good, they seem to think, how much better it would be to start after things have happened and then start over.   I remember it being kind of a new thing when Battlestar Galactica began airing and hearing complaints not too long into the first season about that trick being abused.  At one time in tv and books I swear it happened very rarely, maybe saved for only big event episodes, but now it's almost like this formula has replaced strictly linear stuff as the norm.    

[arjumand]

Or was that one the one where Ra's Ollie Guhl experiences his first fatal wound and has to take a dip into the LP and he comes out messed up....he thinks of himself as Oliver Queen and doesn't think he or Felicity should be in the LoA and she basically works really hard to bring back the LoA guy because that is the man she is in love with and then he thanks her afterward.  Shudder.   In this one they also have little children being trained to be assassins.

 

That's the one I meant. I'm permanently on the Oliver/Felicity ship, but they have to be recognisable, at least. Otherwise, why write about them? And I've decided I hate kid tropes.

 

I blame misguided understandings of the advice to start your story as far along as possible.  Hey if starting just as things are happening is good, they seem to think, how much better it would be to start after things have happened and then start over.   I remember it being kind of a new thing when Battlestar Galactica began airing and hearing complaints not too long into the first season about that trick being abused.  At one time in tv and books I swear it happened very rarely, maybe saved for only big event episodes, but now it's almost like this formula has replaced strictly linear stuff as the norm.

 

Yes, I remember BSG abusing that - I blame LOST, myself. To me, the nadir was a show called The Event - I switched off 5 minutes into the second episode, when I realised that it was going to be full of flashbacks, flashforwards, etc (9 months earlier! 2 years later! 2 minutes earlier! In the same episode. WTF, show.)

Good thing Arrow came along later, and I was over my flashback PTSD - though the Season 3 flashbacks were as dull as hell.

 

But again - none of these things fit well into storytelling. They are good devices for movies and tv, if used sparingly, but to be avoided in writing, unless you're James Joyce (in which case, mazel tov! I never finished Ulysses or Finnegan's Wake! Portrait of the Artist was fun, though).

 

But, more often than not, the problems with the latest crop of Arrow fic aren't that rarefied - it's just that Oliver isn't Oliver, but Some Guy, who either speaks like a Mills and Boon hero circa 1978 ("You are mine, do you hear me? MINE!"), or like someone who always speaks like the narrated intro - very formal, no contractions, etc. Felicity just endlessly repeats lines from the show, and not in a conscious "remember when you said this to me? you jerk!" way, but in a way that it's clear the author wants Felicity to babble as she does in the show, but can't think of anything for her to say. I half don't blame them, it's not easy - but if you choose to write her, make her recognizable. Or give her laryngitis.

Edited June 27, 2015 by arjumand

[tv echo]

This is touching and so well done...
Oliver Queen | A Hero Journey "I'm Happy"
Published on Jun 23, 2015, by shachar06

 

Oh this is cute and clever..
The Wedding Planner: The Olicity Edition
Published on Jun 24, 2015, by Bri Clark

[TrueMyth]

Another community which is still active is http://fanficrants.livejournal.com/ - well, it's relatively active. I too think lj is done for, which is sad.

 

Another good book about writing is Starve Better, by Nick Mamatas. One thing he points out is how writers nowadays (he didn't mean fanfic writers, but I've seen the trend there) tend to start a story like a tv episode, with a cold open, etc. I've noticed the tendency to include things like "Three weeks later", in italics, above a paragraph, and that's where, if I'm marking someone's work, I get out the green/purple pen (no, we're not allowed to use red anymore, because apparently it's upsetting - someone tell Coca cola and Santa Claus: red is bad) and make some pointed comments. You want a time-skip - write it in.

 

I looked for Arrow communities on lj, but couldn't find active ones, and I'm finding it difficult to get to grips with tumblr, to be honest.

I try to strike a balance between being aware of common fanfic (and general audience writing) tropes that may pop up in my work and writing what feels good to me.  Tropes are tropes for a reason; there is a reason they are not called "cliches."  It makes a lot of sense to me that fanfiction would be even more prone to writing for T.V.  One trick I do like is imagining my story being shot by a good cinematographer and really digging into a description the way a T.V. or movie might focus on, or pan over a character or setting.  As long as the prose isn't too "purple" and the description does double duty to set up future plot, it seems fair game to me.

 

I can't say I've run across the time jump/ in-media-res issue in fics, but I think I know what you're talking about.  When I read some of the Twilight books (hey, I'm not holding Stephen King against you!  Also, I must speak the literary language of the young!), I actually thought it was very powerful when Bella passes out and then the next several chapters are just headed with the month and then... blank pages.  Of course, I thought (wow!  She's slipped into a coma!  How bold!)... only to find out, no, her life was just pretty boring and she was depressed.  That sucked.

 

I love green ink, but I feel you on the backlash about red pens.  The key is to target corrections to a few things that will improve the writing without "bleeding" all over the page, unless you know the writer can handle that level of feedback.

 

Yeah, I've had trouble making any deep fandom connections on Tumblr.  I think it's a combination of no community spaces (and honestly horrible commenting features) and the emphasis on the visual medium which discourages conversation.  Still, if you are inclined, feel free to follow me, and I shall follow back!  I'm the same username there.

Edited June 27, 2015 by TrueMyth

[kismet]

I must say I like Jump Ins or the ## hrs later/earlier, especially on tv in certain genres. I do feel that they need to be well written & used sparingly. You can't have every episode be a jump-in. I also think they should be used to make the story more interesting and not to just troubleshoot a pre-existing problems with the story. Sometimes, when poorly crafted that appears to be what they are used for.

 

The reason I like jump-ins is the same reason I like spoilers. I am guilty of skipping ahead and reading later chapters in books & fan fics just to see if I can figure it out. I like to figure out the puzzle of how we got to certain points of the story. That to me is more important sometimes than what the plot might be. Which is why I'm not a huge fan of plotty for plot purposes. I am guilty of skipping ahead and reading later chapters in books & fan fics just to see if I can figure it out.stories. Because most decisions people make are character based. Understanding the layers of decisions & events help you understand the character & the overall story. Plot for plot purposes or twists is to me not as rewarding without good characterization. Which is why Arrow s3 was just abysmal at points. Its why good books/tv/fic hold up to rereading. 

 

However, in fan fiction, I find myself jumping ahead to skim later chapters a lot now to see if the fic is even worth beginning or continuing. Every author is allowed a few weak chapters or a shaky beginning. But if the fic is still struggling many chapters later with mistakes I can't stomach then I disengage. I also sometimes find the jump-ins not as successful in fan fiction because the authors have not fully mapped their story or their characters' journey. So they might have thought they were heading somewhere but the story took them somewhere else & now their jump in is just out of place.

[dtissagirl]

I'm not really fond of writing [fic or pro] that starts in media res, because I think that works better for live action. But every so often an author will prove me wrong. Jim Butcher starts a couple of the Dresden books that way, and because they're written in 1st person POV, it works as a nice artifice, because Harry Dresden gets to explain the chain of events that got him to an opening line like "the building was on fire, and it wasn't my fault".
 
It's also why I think one of the best live action properties ever to start in media res is Iron Man 3. The first thing we see is the Iron Man suits exploding, while Tony's narrating, and then the twist is they jump back in time to way before the first movie, which is not something anyone was expecting, really, but that Swiss conference set up a chain of events that was key to the story. And then it turns out Tony WAS telling the whole story to Bruce, so the reminiscing makes sense -- it's an actual memory.
 
TV more often than not does in media res for an entirely different reason -- they use the climax of the episode as the opening scene to hook up the audience so they won't change the channel -- so one problem I always have is that I can predict the entirety of the events 5 minutes before they happen, because I know where the story's going [to use IM3 as a contrast, the exploding Marks are nowhere near the climax of the story].
 
Edit: I don't know with you guys are familiar with movies' Classical Narrative Structure: http://www.criticalcommons.org/Members/jbutler/commentaries/classical-narrative-structure-exposition-climax-resolution

But it's something that might be useful to study if you wanna write in media res fics.

Edited June 27, 2015 by dancingnancy

[AyChihuahua]

Bkwurm and arjumand, that's the one.  Haaaaated it.  Cause yeah, they're both going to have fun being evil and raising their kids as evil until Oliver decides to run a sword through Felicity.  Obviously I wouldn't have even skimmed it except I had no idea it was going to be so ridiculous.  I'm on the record as being strongly against the storyline of a superhero joining a group of evil murderers, but at least in the show he joined planning and eventually succeeded in taking it down, and Felicity didn't go ahead and join up to be evil, too, and intentionally raise sociopath children.    

[AyChihuahua]

I feel like a lot of fanfic writers romanticized the LOA even more than the show did.  Ra's was a bad villain in the sense that he was poorly written and poorly acted, but yeah, he pretty much murdered Thea and lots of other innocent people, and wanted his own daughter raped.  He tortured and drugged Oliver and killed (as far as he knew) Team Arrow.  I wanted him chopped up and fed to pigs.  But even people here thought Oliver was "hot" in the LOA uniform, which, really?  They're evil murderers.  And Oliver Queen is a budding superhero, not just some tough guy like Nikita, who can be more gray.  Re Ra's telling him he could mold the LOA in his image, to the extent Oliver bought that, that was an excellent example of his season-long stupidity.  The LOA was never going to go straight, and Oliver buying that for even a second pissed me off.  I also feel pretty strongly that Oliver would have eventually intentionally screwed up a mission and gotten himself killed if he couldn't otherwise get out of the LOA.  He certainly would not raise his children to be assassins.

 

Also agree on the Bratva fics and upcoming storyline.  That's why they can't present a realistic Bratva, because: gang rape.  Human trafficking is mostly gang rape of women and children.  The show can't go there with him, so they'll have to do a massively romanticized version of Bratva, too.

Edited June 27, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[apinknightmare]

I found LoA Oliver hot, no shame. Not sure how that's any worse than thinking he was hot in his Hood days, back when he was actually out murdering people. 

[arjumand]

I found LoA Oliver hot, no shame. Not sure how that's any worse than thinking he was hot in his Hood days, back when he was actually out murdering people. 

 

Oh, I'll freely admit to finding Oliver in assassin gear hot, no question about it.

 

However, I don't agree that being an assassin is the same as Oliver in the early days. I know people keep mentioning all the henchmen and minions he took out in those early days, but I'm sorry, I don't get it - they knew who they were working for, and they had no problem with innocents getting caught in the crossfire, so why should I care about them? For example - when Oliver was kidnapped along with Helena, I'm supposed to be sorry for all the goons who weren't Tahmoh Penikett? The ones who were going to stand by cracking jokes, while their boss murdered two people? Nope, sorry. They made their choice.

 

Even at his most damaged and broken, Oliver never showed the sociopathy of someone like R'as al Ghul, or one of his assassins. Or even Nyssa, for that matter. The show has romanticised her so much that we forget she poisoned Laurel and kidnapped her mom, and was prepared to kill her in cold blood, just to get her girlfriend back. If she was a guy, that would be an episode of Stalker, or Criminal Minds. So I don't get how in fic, he becomes someone who has no problem massacring innocents as an assassin, or actually being in the Russian Mafia, not just faking it like he did with Leonov.

 

I've said this elsewhere, that's it's possible for me to find Oliver in assassin gear hot like burning, while hating everything the costume stands for - we're talking about Stephen Amell, after all, whose only bad look on the show is the cargo shorts and buttoned up shirt from season 1 on the island.

 

ETA  So I've been trawling through new Arrow fics to try and recommend something so that it doesn't sound like I'm just a cynical misanthrope (I am) who hates fun (the experience is making me remember when we snidely used to call ffn 'the Pit of Voles', and Ao3 was the pinnacle of awesome - oh, how have the mighty fallen).

 

I love this writer - hannasus: she has a couple of short fics which really capture the characters and I like the way she writes. She has an ongoing fic (2 chapters in, but she updates regularly) which I'm not that sure of, because I don't usually like fics where Oliver hasn't been on the island, but I'm still enjoying it.

Edited June 28, 2015 by arjumand

[apinknightmare]

However, I don't agree that being an assassin is the same as Oliver in the early days. I know people keep mentioning all the henchmen and minions he took out in those early days, but I'm sorry, I don't get it - they knew who they were working for, and they had no problem with innocents getting caught in the crossfire, so why should I care about them? 

 

I don't think that being an assassin is the same either. But my point is that Oliver wasn't an assassin with the LoA - he was pretending. So, thinking that he looks hot in a uniform for a group of murderers he was pretending to be in isn't any worse than thinking he was hot when he was actually out murdering people - regardless of who those people worked for. 

[arjumand]

I don't think that being an assassin is the same either. But my point is that Oliver wasn't an assassin with the LoA - he was pretending. So, thinking that he looks hot in a uniform for a group of murderers he was pretending to be in isn't any worse than thinking he was hot when he was actually out murdering people - regardless of who those people worked for. 

 

Oh, I get it now - I misunderstood you, sorry.

[apinknightmare]

Oh, I get it now - I misunderstood you, sorry.

 

No worries. I'm not sure I was all that clear. :) 

 

To keep this on topic - I like hannasus too - great rec!

Edited June 28, 2015 by apinknightmare

[statsgirl]

Something LoA but a bit different which I don't think has been mentioned here,  Exile, by a_windsor.  She describes it as "Nyssa and Sara fake her death at the end of 3x01 and send the Canary into hiding. Season 3 Fix-it Fic." but it's got  adventure, plotting, complex relationships, an ending I wish would have happened, and a more  believable Ra's than the show gave us.  Kickass women everywhere, the kind that should be on TV and comics, and the first time I've actually liked Laurel as opposed to finding her tolerable.  If you hated how Sara died and Nyssa kneeled to Malcolm, this is for you.

 

Has anyone recced TrueMyth's  All This Aggravation here yet?  The smutty missing scenes that should have been in The Dodger but they're still in character, reading it is like an extended strawberries in cream dessert. 

[TrueMyth]

Thanks very much for the sweet words, statsgirl.  I can't believe you cracked my secret, as I was totally taking a bite of strawberry birthday cake as I read your comment.  I know that smut isn't for everyone, but it was a great way to get my creative juices flowing.  Now I feel like I'm just holding on the reigns of my muses as I divide my free time between several different ideas.

[arjumand]

Thanks very much for the sweet words, statsgirl.  I can't believe you cracked my secret, as I was totally taking a bite of strawberry birthday cake as I read your comment.  I know that smut isn't for everyone, but it was a great way to get my creative juices flowing.  Now I feel like I'm just holding on the reigns of my muses as I divide my free time between several different ideas.

 

I loved it, too, TrueMyth - I'd actually already read it, but I didn't make the connection. And I love smut, and it seems I can't fade to black in any of my stories either. I was actually pretty annoyed at the showrunners for not even giving us one kiss during the finale, and saying there was nowhere to put it organically. Really? But there was space for several mind numbing speeches, two of which quoted the narrated intro? JFC.

 

It didn't occur to me that you'd be truemyth on Ao3 too, cos I've got many different identities online, none of them (I hope) traceable to offline me. Arjumand is my forums handle, along with medusa on io9. But with my fanfic writing, I had to become someone else. With my work and where I live, I can't afford to be doxed as writer of smutty fanfic.

 

Writing smut is liberating, isn't it? I'm in the middle of plotting the last chapter of a long work, and it's really messing with my head. I might write the last (smut-filled) part first, and then maybe the plot point I'm missing will come to me.

Edited June 29, 2015 by arjumand

[kismet]

Thank you to all the people that recommended ash818 LEGACY Series. I have only complete part 1 and am in process of part 2, but it is amazing!!

 

Also a special shout-out THANK YOU to statsgirl for encouraging my to read FOR BLUE SKIES & FOR DARKER DAYS. That story is absolutely beautiful and now I eagerly await updates. It tells so many of the sides of the battle with cancer with such authenticity & grace. It is a must read. The chemo protocol (RCHOP) that Felicity undergoes, has to be one of the most brutal protocols in real life. It just destroys the body. I'm glad the author is doing justice to the struggles that patients & families undergo. I also appreciate that she does not dumb down the medicine or science. Its a just a poignant story! And her characterizations of the ARROW characters is spot-on.

[TrueMyth]

I loved it, too, TrueMyth - I'd actually already read it, but I didn't make the connection. And I love smut, and it seems I can't fade to black in any of my stories either. I was actually pretty annoyed at the showrunners for not even giving us one kiss during the finale, and saying there was nowhere to put it organically. Really? But there was space for several mind numbing speeches, two of which quoted the narrated intro? JFC.

 

It didn't occur to me that you'd be truemyth on Ao3 too, cos I've got many different identities online, none of them (I hope) traceable to offline me. Arjumand is my forums handle, along with medusa on io9. But with my fanfic writing, I had to become someone else. With my work and where I live, I can't afford to be doxed as writer of smutty fanfic.

 

Writing smut is liberating, isn't it? I'm in the middle of plotting the last chapter of a long work, and it's really messing with my head. I might write the last (smut-filled) part first, and then maybe the plot point I'm missing will come to me.

Thanks, arjumand!  Yeah, I thought Felicity's rescue of Oliver would have been the perfect spot for a kiss narratively, but now we know there were practical issues with Emily twenty feet away in only half the suit.  I don't know, seems like they could have done it.  Her pep talk would have been a good spot for at least a peck.

 

I've run with TrueMyth since my AOL days (so old!).  I don't talk about fanfiction under my real name, but I do have fandom friends become "real life" friends on FaceBook.  I once read about an English teacher who had published several romance novels (with sexy times) under a pseudonym, but most of her students and parents knew.  Eh, I won't lie and say I'm totally sanguine at the idea of someone from my professional life finding my fanfiction and identifying me... but I have enough of a screen up that it would mean they were actually LOOKING for Arrow, X-files, or Veronica Mars fanfic.  In the end, I'd like to think it would give us more to talk about!

 

Good luck on your last chapter!  I hope the smut flows freely!

[jay741982]

Ive found an Olicity vid on YouTube to the song " I would do anything for love( but I won't do that!). Not everyone would agree but I think it's a great Oliver POV song

[Luckylyn]

I made a new video focusing on Oliver.

 

[AyChihuahua]

Ash818's Legacy series (she also has a bunch of connected one-shots) is literally the best fanfic in any fandom I have ever read. The plotting is FANTASTIC; Oliver, Felicity, Roy, Digg, etc., are all totally in-character even as older versions of themselves, and their son Jonathan (the new Arrow) is awesome, hilarious, badass, and so much a less-damaged version of his dad.  She even came up with a much more believable way for Thea to have ended up in the League's sights, without the nonsensical Malcolm shenanigans of S3.    

[Guest]

I feel like the only person who can't get to grips with Ash818's Legacy series. I think it's because it's a future fic. I like reading about Oliver and Felicity now. There's no denying it's well written though, from the first couple of chapters I read. 

 

I re-read through an older favorite of mine called 'the old familiar sting' by confidentialityspice, which is about the fallout of Felicity getting seriously hurt and it is so moving. I always tear up reading it. That takes some effort! Also, it's written by Veritas who makes all those wonderful Olicity and Arrow fanvids. She's really talented. 

Edited June 29, 2015 by Guest

[Genki]

I feel like the only person who can't get to grips with Ash818's Legacy series. I think it's because it's a future fic. I like reading about Oliver and Felicity now. There's no denying it's well written though, from the first couple of chapters I read. 

 

Fair enough I loath OC and this fic is my exception if I like a fic in-spite of the OC, do I start to skim their chapters dialogues etc, but I resent it, it not what I started reading fanfic for.

 

If I had one teeny-tiny criticism about Legacy it it that I want more Oliver and Felicity...it feels so much in Character how there future selves would be especially with their children and I love it, but I would like to hear more of the story alluded to about the kids growing up and form Oliver's or Felicity's POV.

Edited June 29, 2015 by Genki

[dtissagirl]

I feel like the only person who can't get to grips with Ash818's Legacy series. I think it's because it's a future fic. I like reading about Oliver and Felicity now. There's no denying it's well written though, from the first couple of chapters I read.

 

I read the first story, but didn't think it was anything extraordinary. Future fic THAT many years in the future is not my thing. Plus, it didn't help that the kid is named Jonathan, and that's the name of Chloe and Ollie's kid on Smallville, and I just noped noped noped forever, and used a script to replace every instance of "Jonathan" / "Jonny" with something else so I could actively read it.

 

My fanfic crazy, let me show you it.

[Morrigan2575]

I feel like the only person who can't get to grips with Ash818's Legacy series. I think it's because it's a future fic. I like reading about Oliver and Felicity now. There's no denying it's well written though, from the first couple of chapters I read.

Never mind thinking of the wrong fic. Never read this story, not really interested future fics

Edited June 29, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[apinknightmare]

I feel like the only person who can't get to grips with Ash818's Legacy series. I think it's because it's a future fic. I like reading about Oliver and Felicity now. There's no denying it's well written though, from the first couple of chapters I read. 

 

I liked it - I think she's a very good writer (although I did find myself skipping through some of the more lengthy portions). It's the first future fic I'd ever read, and the fact that O/F were still in it kind of distracted me from the main plot, because they'd give each other a little look or have a moment, and I'd find myself wishing I was reading that story, and sad that I'd missed out on it, haha. 

[Chaser]

I liked it - I think she's a very good writer (although I did find myself skipping through some of the more lengthy portions). It's the first future fic I'd ever read, and the fact that O/F were still in it kind of distracted me from the main plot, because they'd give each other a little look or have a moment, and I'd find myself wishing I was reading that story, and sad that I'd missed out on it, haha. 

That was my problem with it as well. I had to stop reading it because I realized I kept skimming the chapters for the characters I could picture. Oliver/Felicity/Diggle/Lyla. I didn't skim for Laurel, but I have to say that that is probably the most realistic Laurel and Team relationship I have seen in fic. IIRC, it was friendly but they weren't close.

[Guest]

Fair enough I loath OC and this fic is my exception if I like a fic in-spite of the OC, do I start to skim their chapters dialogues etc, but I resent it, it not what I started reading fanfic for.

 

If I had one teeny-tiny criticism about Legacy it it that I want more Oliver and Felicity...it feels so much in Character how there future selves would be especially with their children and I love it, but I would like to hear more of the story alluded to about the kids growing up and form Oliver's or Felicity's POV.

 

I think it's partly because it's OC and I want more of Oliver and Felicity. Also I can't seem to get invested in fics set twenty years in the future. I think I might have been more interested if I'd seen O/F have a family from the beginning and read about their kids growing up. But again, that's just me!

 

 

I read the first story, but didn't think it was anything extraordinary. Future fic THAT many years in the future is not my thing. 

 

I don't mind some set maybe a year or two in the future but yeah, it's the 20 plus years that I can't get to grips with. Nothing to do with the author or skill set, just personal preference I guess.

 

 

I liked it - I think she's a very good writer (although I did find myself skipping through some of the more lengthy portions). It's the first future fic I'd ever read, and the fact that O/F were still in it kind of distracted me from the main plot, because they'd give each other a little look or have a moment, and I'd find myself wishing I was reading that story, and sad that I'd missed out on it, haha. 

 

Agree. She's a good writer. It's just my personal preference for fanfic. And when I start to skim portions of a fic waiting for characters I love and not OC's, that's when I lose interest. But I can see why many people enjoy it.

[dtissagirl]

Oh, yes, I think she's a pretty good writer, and I liked her original characters -- I tend to dislike OCs in 99.999999% of fics -- but I'm just not into decades-from-now future fic. Personal preference as well.

[statsgirl]

OCs tend to be Mary Sues too much of the time, either snagging the hero/heroine for themselves or being the one to finally push them together after years of UST.  Or one dimensional villains,too often by bad writers.

 

I also avoid AUs, especially high school or (horrors) kindergarten ones.

 

But for whatever reason, many of the AUs in this fandom are seriously amazing.  MachaWicket's Velocity and a number of fic by dettoits fic are just a few examples.  Thatmasquedgirl has a whole page of really well written first meets in various universes.  I like those for the same reason I like ash818's future fic which is far enough in the future that the show isn't going to make make them out-of-canon, or Jossed as they say in the Whedon-verse.  I like re-reading good fic sometimes even years later and while it's fun to read fic speculating on what's coming up, if the show changes direction or worse, if it comes up with a better storyline (rare, but does still happen).  Then I can't go back and enjoy the fic even if it is well-written.

 

After a winter hiatus of some really good fic about what Oliver will do when he comes back from fighting Ra's, it was even harder to watch the show as Oliver pushed Felicity away for plot! so he could join up with MM and she could sleep with Ray.

 

Although, because there are exceptions to everything, I like ChronicOlidity's fic even when it's no longer canon-consitent because much of the time it's better than the show.

Edited June 29, 2015 by statsgirl

[AyChihuahua]

Nearly every fic I read re what would happen when Oliver returned from the duel was better than what the show did.  It was amazing how easy it was to make that story engrossing...the actual show chose basically the ONE shitty version.

[dtissagirl]

OCs tend to be Mary Sues too much of the time, either snagging the hero/heroine for themselves or being the one to finally push them together after years of UST.  Or one dimensional villains,too often by bad writers.

 

I have a friend who writes just the greatest OCs in her Smallville fics; and MachaSWicket created some fabulous OCs in her Veronica Mars' fics. What those two authors have in common is their OCs are supporting characters. They're part of the world building, not the main characters of the story. These are the kind of OC that I live for in fic. Legacies, otoh is a super well written story about an OC. That's not what I want from my fic.

[arjumand]

I have a friend who writes just the greatest OCs in her Smallville fics; and MachaSWicket created some fabulous OCs in her Veronica Mars' fics. What those two authors have in common is their OCs are supporting characters. They're part of the world building, not the main characters of the story. These are the kind of OC that I live for in fic. Legacies, otoh is a super well written story about an OC. That's not what I want from my fic.

 

I agree - I was thinking about that earlier, and you put it so much better than I could. While it's a great fic, I got into reading (and writing) Arrow fanfic, because of Oliver, and eventually, Felicity.

 

And while I do love some AUs, I'm wary of non-island AUs - basically, I believe Oliver needs to have gone through the crucible of the island to become the character we know and love. Remember that scene when Felicity gives him the other notebook, asking if she can trust him, and he glibly says "I've got one of those faces"? That's old Ollie come out for a second, and ugh. I do not want that. I love how Felicity's face fell and Oliver immediately realized what he'd done - Emily and Stephen sold that moment really well.

 

I love Velocity, mainly because I also love Speed, and watch it at least once a year. MachaWicket does something with the material she has, and that's why this AU works so well - other writers who explicitly do AUs of movies are not nearly as successful, because it isn't just a matter of shoving the characters in there.

 

But I still enjoy AUs more if the Oliver in them has gone through the island or equivalent.

[tv echo]

I made a new video focusing on Oliver.

The song is spot on... really good job.  Thanks.

Edited June 30, 2015 by tv echo

[romantic idiot]

Have you guys seen this? Quite nice, I thought...

[Menrva]

 

 

*And those of my students who feel the need to share with me that Fifty Shades of Grey is their favourite book of all time - George Orwell, James Joyce, Jane Austen, Charlotte Bronte, Virginia Woolf - there's so much rolling in graves going on that there's some strange seismic activity being measured, I'm sure. Fuck me.

I whole heartedly agree with all of the above. I appreciate all the recommended fics because while I have little time to read lately, I've been disillusioned by my current reading list. Tried reading Outlander, finished it and ran out of steam about 1/3 into the second book. And I love historical time-travel romance! I was so relieved to find Jenny Trout's hilarious recaps of 50SoG so I didn't have to slog through it myself. Tried to read Twilight and never got past the first chapter. Bleh. I'm re-reading A Wrinkle in Time because it's my favorite book of all time.

[romantic idiot]

I couldn't get through the first Outlander. Just did not appeal at all. But if you are looking for well written fiction, might I strongly suggest Ilona Andrews, Patricia Briggs, Benedict Jacka, Jim Butcher, Nalini Singh and Richelle Mead in the Urban Fantasy space? And Kelley Armstrong's new series (Cainesville) is looking good and Michelle Sagara and Anne Bishop's latest series in Classic Fantasy are my current favourites. 

 

Back on  topic, I've mentioned previously that I tend to avoid fan fiction because it adds too many plot points to keep straight, so I wanted to ask regular readers how you keep it separate from canon? Some amount of OOC-isation and divergent plots must creep into the fan fiction you read, no matter how well policed, and then isn't it difficult to separate your feelings about Laurel in fan fiction, say, than Laurel as seen on screen?

 

ETA: Last rec, I promise but if angst is appealing then Rob thurman is a must. Very Supernatural.

Edited July 1, 2015 by romantic idiot

[apinknightmare]

I don't have a problem differentiating between fan fiction and canon, honestly. All the romantic, in-depth character stuff that I've loved always happens in fanfic, not the show. I do, however, have difficulty remembering which plot points happened in which fics sometimes. 

[Carrie Ann]

I've mentioned previously that I tend to avoid fan fiction because it adds too many plot points to keep straight, so I wanted to ask regular readers how you keep it separate from canon? Some amount of OOC-isation and divergent plots must creep into the fan fiction you read, no matter how well policed, and then isn't it difficult to separate your feelings about Laurel in fan fiction, say, than Laurel as seen on screen?

 

I don't think this is a problem for me either, but I do think it can happen sometimes, especially with problematic characters. I sometimes see these defenses of characters that don't cite anything I've ever seen onscreen, and I think a lot of it comes from "corrective" fic, where people speed along the growth process, or provide a backstory that washes away some of the badness, etc. 

 

With Arrow, I haven't personally seen as much of the "fanon" phenomenon when it comes to the characters. I don't think there are many widely-held fanon truths that fill in blanks or solve problems or whatever, so I don't think it bleeds into canon as much. Anyone else have examples of this? 

 

With Laurel, since you offered her as an example: to be honest, at least with Olicity fic writers, if they don't leave her out altogether (hi, this is me), my experience has been that they often try to "fix" any issues they might have with her on-screen by making her more likable or fit in better with the rest of the Arrow-verse. I have almost never come across stories in which she's a "villain" or even a negative force. I'm sure they exist, but it's not a common theme amongst the best-received works, I don't think. So, again, at least as far as I can tell, if anything, FF would more likely make you more sympathetic toward Laurel than less, but most likely, it doesn't really affect your feelings about her. It really has no bearing on mine, anyway.

Edited July 1, 2015 by Carrie Ann

[dtissagirl]

Back on topic, I've mentioned previously that I tend to avoid fan fiction because it adds too many plot points to keep straight, so I wanted to ask regular readers how you keep it separate from canon? Some amount of OOC-isation and divergent plots must creep into the fan fiction you read, no matter how well policed, and then isn't it difficult to separate your feelings about Laurel in fan fiction, say, than Laurel as seen on screen?

I've been reading fic for a really long time, and one thing I've noticed is that I don't really get fic and canon mixed up if it's live action. I'm a very visual person, so it's like my brain understands exactly what I've watched [canon], and what I've read [fic].

Things get murkier for me if it's fanfic based on books. Which I don't read much, but I had a funny moment last week: I've been reading this super long Veronica Mars fic series, that is based on the VM books released after the movie came out. And for a second there I could NOT separare fic from books, and had to remind myself that no, Veronica doesn't have a kid.

I deal with characters I dislike by not reading fic that features them predominantly. Using Laurel as example. I'm good if Laurel is a minor character, but if I realize the story is too much about her, I just stop reading. Same if I consider something too OOC to keep reading. But sometimes I can deal with a little OOC-ness, especially in fic that diverges from canon at an earlier point, like, say, the S1 Arrow finale. Since I know what came next in canon, I can deal with moderate OOCness if it serves the plot of the fic. But it's really a case by case thing.

Edited July 1, 2015 by dancingnancy

[TrueMyth]

I couldn't get through the first Outlander. Just did not appeal at all. But if you are looking for well written fiction, might I strongly suggest Ilona Andrews, Patricia Briggs, Benedict Jacka, Jim Butcher, Nalini Singh and Richelle Mead in the Urban Fantasy space? And Kelley Armstrong's new series (Cainesville) is looking good and Michelle Sagara and Anne Bishop's latest series in Classic Fantasy are my current favourites. 

 

Back on  topic, I've mentioned previously that I tend to avoid fan fiction because it adds too many plot points to keep straight, so I wanted to ask regular readers how you keep it separate from canon? Some amount of OOC-isation and divergent plots must creep into the fan fiction you read, no matter how well policed, and then isn't it difficult to separate your feelings about Laurel in fan fiction, say, than Laurel as seen on screen?

Seconding Ilona Andrews for urban fantasy romance with awesome female protagonists.  If you like smutty genre books and are unaware of Vaginal Fantasy, I highly recommend it.  It's a genre romance book club run by Felicia Day for over two years now.  They've discussed many, many books, and their forums on GoodReads are great for discussion of others.

 

As for fanfic, I'll third the 'no.'  I only tend to read finished multi-chapters or one-shots, so I rarely have more than one fanfic I'm reading at once.  That means I only have a couple versions of the characters living in my head.  Many AU fics are VERY AU.  I'm not going to confuse MachaSWicket's "Speed" AU for anything in show canon, for example.  If it does follow show canon closely, it's still no more difficult to parse than say the movie version of a book.  Even plotting to write future season "what ifs?" are really more like extended, detailed speculation.  Do you read detailed speculation, like the sort jbuffyangel posts?  Do you have trouble sorting out her readings from what you saw on the screen?

 

As for my opinion of characters bleeding into my fanfic experience, that's mostly my choice.  I don't care much for Laurel, so I tend not to read fics which include her, even though many authors who us her are quite fair-minded, as Carrie Ann said.  That said, I might enjoy reading something from Laurel's PoV that really helped me understand Laurel better.  That fic might make me like show Laurel better, but I still think I'd be able to keep the plot points separate.

[Menrva]

 

As for my opinion of characters bleeding into my fanfic experience, that's mostly my choice.  I don't care much for Laurel, so I tend not to read fics which include her, even though many authors who us her are quite fair-minded, as Carrie Ann said.  That said, I might enjoy reading something from Laurel's PoV that really helped me understand Laurel better.  That fic might make me like show Laurel better, but I still think I'd be able to keep the plot points separate.

Thanks for all the great recommendations!

 

I don't think it's a secret that I'm not a Laurel fan, but I did get an idea for a Laurel-centric story that I thought was pretty fair to her portrayal in the show (not the comics) despite my dislike for her and centered around the concept of what Laurel might do if something threatened to compromise her secret identity as BC and the lengths she would go to protect that. However, I'm not really a writer. I've written exactly one fic and while I'm pleased with it, it's not going to win any literary prizes.

 

It's really sad that fan fiction is more compelling than the actual writers.