Criminal Minds Unpopular Opinions

[BakerStreet]

Most modern searches look for variations on spelling.

[Danielg342]

On 01/03/2018 at 3:13 PM, BakerStreet said:

Most modern searches look for variations on spelling.

If you have a name like "Steven Smith" and ask to search a city like NYC for him, you are going to come across hundreds, if not thousands, of people. Now, if this was a Smith for whom you knew his workplace (or former workplace), you might be able to narrow it down to one individual, but if it's a "Steven Smith" who simply works as a cab driver or a police officer or a technician of some kind, you'll still get quite a few hits, potentially sending the BAU to the wrong house.

I'll grant that the show cuts a lot of corners when it comes to Garcia's searches, but many times those corners are those little bits of exposition that would allow for a definitive search- yet Garcia inexplicably gets it right every time.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

I am unsure if mine is an UO or not, but it is my opinion of what I don't like about Criminal Minds........

I realize that after 12.5 seasons and ~275 episodes that it is probably exceedingly difficult to keep things "new" and "fresh" and whatnot, but it seems like just about every general UnSub is motivated by the same thing(s), only separated by a few minor details that are written in a way to 'look' different, but in actuality, aren't at all.  Only the names, faces, and locations are the only things that truly change.  Now, yes, there is a rare time that motivations are truly unique and worth paying attention to, but like I said, it is a rarity.

Just about the only reason(s) to keep tuning in is to see what kind of personal interactions the team will have in the episodes, and/or what certain members may be dealing with in their personal lives, or what new non-UnSub concern the team in currently entrenched in.

Edited March 6, 2018 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[BlackberryJam]

On 3/4/2018 at 5:59 PM, Danielg342 said:

If you have a name like "Steven Smith" and ask to search a city like NYC for him, you are going to come across hundreds, if not thousands, of people. Now, if this was a Smith for whom you knew his workplace (or former workplace), you might be able to narrow it down to one individual, but if it's a "Steven Smith" who simply works as a cab driver or a police officer or a technician of some kind, you'll still get quite a few hits, potentially sending the BAU to the wrong house.

I'll grant that the show cuts a lot of corners when it comes to Garcia's searches, but many times those corners are those little bits of exposition that would allow for a definitive search- yet Garcia inexplicably gets it right every time.

The Penelope Garcia character is just full on ridiculous with her abilities. There are no databases out there which would tell her what white males age 25-35 work second shift jobs. Companies just don't have their shift assignments in an online, hack-able/searchable database. She'd be all kinds of fun if they didn't do the "Manic Pixie Dream Girl Goes Chubby" route with her all the time. I also love how she has multiple monitors in her office but only ever uses two of them, and usually it's just one. I'd like her to meet Elliot from Mr. Robot one day. Now that would be fun.

I also love the completely ridiculous no-it's-not-hypnosis-but-having-a-profiler-ask-you-questions interview technique suddenly producing memories from ten years ago. That is utterly giggle-worthy. 

This show is 64 kinds of campy fun. I mean, half the time I expect Joe Mantegna to wink at the camera. I wish they had more stunt casting for the local law enforcement people.  

Edited March 6, 2018 by BlackberryJam

[Mulva]

My UO:  I like Barnes.

[Annber03]

I wouldn't want to work with somebody like Barnes in real life, but I do like her on the show. The woman playing her is clearly having a lot of fun with the role. 

[Mulva]

I think Barnes had some good points.  Rossi is way over retirement age, and Prentiss did violate the law.  Now I want to see her crack down on Garcia's wardrobe.

[K42]

I really dislike Garcia. She too colourful for my taste. Everyone on the team is serious and professional and she's like this awkward flashy unicorn that sticks out like a sore thumb. They need to tone her down and/or make her more serious. 

I like Barnes

Rossi needs to have better lines. For some reason, I always cringe when he talks. He says the most cliche things

They need to bring back Blake

Erica Messy needs to get fired

I hate how JJ is a favourite. She's good but that's it. She doesn't deserve all the praise she's getting. 

Morgan should have left a long time ago. The actor made his character insufferable. He was always in a state of pissed off or playing the role of a vapid Johnny Bravo. He added nothing to the show but abs. 

Emily needs to become Emily again. Ever since she took on the role of Hotch, it's like she forgot how to be Prentiss. I miss the former awkward badass sexy spy she used to be. That being said, I don't mind her role as Unit Chief. 

 

I don't want Hotch to come back. TG and Hotch need to stay the hell away from what this show has become. I loved TG since his Dharma and Greg days but I'm glad he got fired. It's a disgrace to have him work on a case that involves a gross immature snake girl. No. Just No. Keep him and Paget out of the show if possible. They're too good for the trash this show has become. Season 13 is borderline disgusting. 

 

They reaaaaaaally need to stop giving every "Unit Chief" the line "Wheels up in X". Are you deliberately trying to piss of TG fans? Because it's working. Give the actors their own lines. Them using this line makes them come off as identity-less. Hotch never used the same phrases that Gideon did. Neither did Morgan. Enough already. 

The beginning of the show should have focused on Reid's PTSD and his mother. Seriously, did he magically recover? Also, what happened to his headaches?

 

I don't know what's going on with Spencer but I find myself liking him less and less. I don't know if it's because of his lack of lines/scenes or because the actor is constantly away. It's like he shows up for one scene then poof. He shows a glimpse of personality then leaves. Either keep the actor or fire him. 

Edited March 8, 2018 by KatsDivision

[normasm]

4 hours ago, Mulva said:

I think Barnes had some good points.  Rossi is way over retirement age, and Prentiss did violate the law.  Now I want to see her crack down on Garcia's wardrobe.

Prentiss violated protocol, not the law.

[Mislav]

On Thursday, March 08, 2018 at 3:53 PM, Mulva said:

I think Barnes had some good points.  Rossi is way over retirement age, and Prentiss did violate the law.  Now I want to see her crack down on Garcia's wardrobe.

Yeah, sure. And Reid is better off being a professor, and JJ would make a great unit chief. And surely no other character could have possibly criticized Garcia's ridiculous wardrobe. *cringe*

Edited March 10, 2018 by Mislav

[Danielg342]

On 08/03/2018 at 2:10 PM, normasm said:

Prentiss violated protocol, not the law.

Prentiss destroyed evidence, which is against the law. Of course, I find it ridiculous that anyone other than her- and maybe Reid- would know she did that, because she didn't tell anyone she deleted the interview (just that it wasn't useful) and you'd have to really dig into her phone to find out she deleted the video and there's no way Barnes would have done that.

[idiotwaltz]

9 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

Prentiss destroyed evidence, which is against the law. Of course, I find it ridiculous that anyone other than her- and maybe Reid- would know she did that, because she didn't tell anyone she deleted the interview (just that it wasn't useful) and you'd have to really dig into her phone to find out she deleted the video and there's no way Barnes would have done that.

Seriously, Prentiss, here’s a primer on destroying evidence: 

1. Destroy evidence.

2. Don’t tell anyone under any circumstances that you destroyed evidence. 

Unpopular opinion: I think Barnes is hot. 

[ReidFan]

This whole argument is moot because that interview would never have been admissible in court anyway. He was still waaaaaaaaaaaay under the influence of the drugs he'd been administered.

This whole 'plot hole' is just stupid. But if I play along anyway:

She told the Mexican cop she *didn't record it* not that she deleted it. The other BAU members that were with her (Rossi, Alvez) knew what he'd said in the cognitive because Prentiss told them that Reid just incriminates himself more. I don't recall if she actually played them the recording or if she just relayed the information, but they would've known/ figured it was recorded because she waved the phone around while telling them (which makes me think they never actually heard it either) . The only people who would know she recorded it for certain were Reid and Prentiss (and Reid was in no shape to have realised that anyway) and possibly Rossi and Alvez.

HOWEVER, they didn't do the thing with the phones in the safe box until Wheels Up. So it's entirely possible that the recording / deleting is known to Barnes because SHE is the mole (or the mole told her). However Scratch/Cat/mole/whoever was spying on their phones, if they cloned them or whathaveyou.  In fact, Barnes may even have a copy of the recording if Prentiss' phone was compromised too. Then Prentiss would be caught in a lie. In which case I'm wondering why Prentiss et al aren't wondering how Barnes knew about this interview. Reid said (in Annihilator) that there wasn't a single record of it (the recording) and then he realises that she deleted it. But if there was no mention of the recording in the files, how else would Barnes have known about it? If none of them ever mentioned it in their reports? If the Mexican cop had mentioned it, *that* would've been in those files. So, they had to have some sort of tap on Prentiss' phone.

and if I've figured this out, how come the BAU hasn't ?

Edited March 12, 2018 by ReidFan
typo

[idiotwaltz]

Whether or not evidence is admissible is up to a judge. Also, Emily lied to the local authorities, that’s called obstruction of justice. 

But fair enough, they couldn’t have advanced the prison arc and I’ve suspended disbelief for this show to a degree that would probably classify me as delusional. 

Another UO so I’m still on topic: I’ve hated all the season-long arcs this show has ever had. Foyet is the only one I can stand, and it took another 4-5 seasons before I looked back and thought, Hey, that’s actually not bad. (Btw that whole individual team member interview thing in 100, SVU did it back in 2002). This Barnes plotline is only supposed to be 3 episodes but it feels like an eternity already. I just want it to end, I don’t care what anyone’s motivation is. 

I still care about the characters, but I’m not really sure I care for the show anymore.

Edited March 12, 2018 by idiotwaltz

[ReidFan]

22 minutes ago, idiotwaltz said:

Whether or not evidence is admissible is up to a judge. Also, Emily lied to the local authorities, that’s called obstruction of justice. 

 

understood and I get that but the fact remains that no one but Emily* (and under-the-influence Reid and possibly Alvez and Rossi) knew that 1. she recorded it 2. she deleted it 3. she lied about it.

 

 

* oh, and we the audience LOL

Edited March 12, 2018 by ReidFan

[Unkempt]

On 3/8/2018 at 10:12 AM, KatsDivision said:

The beginning of the show should have focused on Reid's PTSD and his mother. Seriously, did he magically recover? Also, what happened to his headaches?

 

He took a Flintstone vitamin on Maeve's recommendation, and they went away.  This will always be a source of irritation to me.

[BakerStreet]

I think he still has them. 

[Danielg342]

7 hours ago, Unkempt said:

I think this fandom has been unnecessarily rough on anyone new to the show ever since Ashley Seaver.  The Seaver stuff was deserved (although it should NEVER have been aimed at the actress...she is just someone who accepted a job that was offered to her).  I admittedly was skeptical of JLH initially, but I ended up really liking her, and I wish she hadn't left.  I love Aisha Tyler and Adam Rodriguez.  I was warming up to Damon before they killed him off, and I honestly have no problem with Henney.

I always feel bad for anyone who comes in new to the show nowadays because they always face harsh criticism and fans begrudging them any screen time (if they're featured in a couple of scenes, suddenly they're hogging the entire episode).  I've also seen new characters auto-hated because many fans feel the newbies are being featured over their favorite character.  I mostly see complaints about "fill in name here" (Lewis, Simmons, Alvez) getting tons of screen time while Reid has nothing to do....nevermind that Reid got an entire half a season last year and MGG has reduced his time on set.

This is a tough fandom that never quite moved on from the terrible, unfair cast shakeup in season 6.  The show is never going to be what it was, we'll never have our golden cast and their amazing chemistry back (especially now that Gibson isn't welcome back) so I'm trying to be happy with what we have.  My only wish is that they'd leave the cast the hell alone for JUST ONE SEASON.  We don't need so many cast changes. 

I'm with you in that I'm more ambivalent towards new characters than most seem to be. I thought Walker was great for the limited time he was on, Simmons was the only one in "Beyond Borders" I actually liked (and he's still been good here), when Tara actually gets material to work with she really shines and Luke is pretty cool (and I still picture him eating a sub in every scene. Adam Rodriguez must have that "I'm hungry" look or something).

I also liked Jennifer Love Hewitt even though CM pretty much gave S10 to her, and Jeanne Tripplehorn was great when Blake had something to do, which was not much. Not fond of Ashley Seaver, but that's more to do with that I never connected with the character than having any hatred that she "replaced" JJ.

Having said that, what gets me is that the show really isn't spending a lot of time developing the new characters- or developing anyone, really. It's like these profilers are just a bunch of robots who fulfil the plot and don't seem to have any kind of life on their own, except when the show decides to dedicate some bookends to a character, which still don't shed much light on the character anyway. This leads to pining for the older characters- who actually have some development and for whom we have some idea of how they work together- over the newer ones.

Ultimately, though, the show's had too many cast changes, they have too many characters and they spend too much time with the UnSub or the Guest Star of the Week to really give anyone adequate development. I'm pretty sure if it happened, I'd like the newcomers a lot more.

[Bridget]

On 3/5/2018 at 6:23 PM, BlackberryJam said:

The Penelope Garcia character is just full on ridiculous with her abilities. There are no databases out there which would tell her what white males age 25-35 work second shift jobs. Companies just don't have their shift assignments in an online, hack-able/searchable database. She'd be all kinds of fun if they didn't do the "Manic Pixie Dream Girl Goes Chubby" route with her all the time. I also love how she has multiple monitors in her office but only ever uses two of them, and usually it's just one. I'd like her to meet Elliot from Mr. Robot one day. Now that would be fun.

I also love the completely ridiculous no-it's-not-hypnosis-but-having-a-profiler-ask-you-questions interview technique suddenly producing memories from ten years ago. That is utterly giggle-worthy. 

This show is 64 kinds of campy fun. I mean, half the time I expect Joe Mantegna to wink at the camera. I wish they had more stunt casting for the local law enforcement people.  

I want to know how she types on a keyboard while holding onto at least three different objects in her left hand! She doesn’t even have full use of the keyboard because her L hand only has two fingers that can even reach the keyboard.

I guess she doesn’t need the left side of her keyboard to spell things or run searches.

My takeaway: All case related info can only contain letters used from the R side of the keyboard.

[K42]

They really need to tone down Garcia's character. I wish they would make her more serious. I mean, she sees all these crimes on a daily basis and also gets shot in one episode yet somehow she hasn't been jaded one bit? I understand wanting to hold on to whatever innocence you have left but geez! Even Dorky Prentiss wasn't that obnoxious. 

I hated what they did to Nicholas Brendon when he was on Criminal Minds as much as I hated what they did to him on Buffy. It baffles me how he always gets dorky roles. He works really well with creepy/serious roles. Watch the episode called "The Pack" on Buffy and tell me he doesn't give you the creeps as a villain.

Beth was most awful girlfriend choice for Hotch. God, what were they thinking? Hotch needed someone who was "classically" sexy like that Unsub in the episode "Pleasure is my Business" in Season 4. That Stock Market conversation between him and the unsub in the elevator showcased a very classic "Hotch" type of conversation/flirtation. What he saw in Beth was just baffling. I swear, it's a hit or miss with CM writers. 

We need to know more about Reid's PTSD, his headaches and potential alzheimers. 

Where is Diana? And how is she doing with her new medications? Are they still working? Did she get used to them? Is she still mentally declining?

 

We need answers!

Edited April 3, 2018 by KatsDivision

[Unkempt]

My UO - I actually didn't mind Beth, LOL.  I guess it'd be more accurate to say that I really didn't care about Beth, but she didn't bother me.

I'd love to see Nicholas Brendan return, but he's been having some personal issues.  I really hope he's doing well, because I did like him on the show.

I think it's a given that Diana is mentally declining because that's really the only outcome with dementia.  Medications slow it down, but there really is no improvement, per se.

I'd really love to know about Reid's PTSD, too, but that doesn't seem to be an unpopular opinion, LOL.

[Annber03]

1 hour ago, Unkempt said:

My UO - I actually didn't mind Beth, LOL.  I guess it'd be more accurate to say that I really didn't care about Beth, but she didn't bother me.

She didn't bother me, either. I liked her. I've had no issue with any of the team members' significant others, really. 

I haven't yet gone back through this thread, so I don't know if this one's been expressed so far, but seeing the episode this morning reminded me: my UO is that I like "200". It's got issues storywise and whatnot, yes, but I dunno. I still like it. 

Edited April 4, 2018 by Annber03

[Danielg342]

6 hours ago, Annber03 said:

My UO is that I like "200". It's got issues storywise and whatnot, yes, but I dunno. I still like it.

I liked it too, actually. It was fast-paced and tense...never thought of the story issues until I came here.

[MMC]

On ‎2‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 6:09 PM, pumpkin said:

Haha fair enough :P

Maybe a more accurate thing to say would be an opinion I wish wasn't true and want to unpack further? Its true of most of the long running shows I've watched but CM held out quality wise for a pretty long time and had some team member shifts that were pretty smooth in the early seasons.  

I would agree with this I think theres definitely been a concept shift in the show, and the characters, while not necessarily ever super well defined, used to feel like we were sort've getting to know them nonlinearly like you would with a friend. I guess my main issue now is they feel a little bit more like characters then like people :/ maybe im just having trouble suspending my disbelief what with all the changes that have been thrown there way since their original conception so to speak. 

 My main issue with Reid is in the they've always been okay throwing challenges his way, like the drug problem and his moms mental illness and being reunited with his father, etc but recently they've just been like lets have every bad thing possible happen to him. Gideon dies in a practically throw away episode, (though I will admit i loved seeing young Gideon/Rossi flash backs!) Morgan and Hotch leave (which shouldve been a big deal for him even though the writers sortve didnt give him room to be upset about it since its a casting thing more then a writing choice) Mauve is murdered in front of him and then he goes to jail for a while, Idk I just feel like they've really been giving him a hard time with out bounce back. I also feel like something is missing in the writing they've been doing for him, whether it be his previous dorky cheerfulness or a lack of show case of his intelligence I cant really put my finger on it. 

I'm not sure what I wanted to see out of Garcia, I was v nervous for her character when Morgan left because she has a lot less of an outlet, and her love hate thing with Luke highlighted rather then filled that hole for me. 

I hear what you're saying about Emily... it would be cool to see a little more of that reconciliation addressed you know? Like if she could have a seen with Rossi about how she doesn't have to be Hotch. I also think part of it is that with all the new cast members plus a crime of the week or seasonal arch or whatever theres not a ton of room for her to take off her boss face and be Emily, confidant and friend the way she used to be. 

I liked JJ in early seasons, I'm not really sure when I started to have animosity to her. It's not that I don't think she could profile, that shes not smart enough, or even the shark jumping with her being a covert ops super agent. I think its possible just to write it off the changes to her as the character having become jaded after everything she's been through, but she used to have this odd combination of a kind of humility and a kind of fire. And even more then empathy I would say she had a thoughtful common sense like in the midst of something terrible she would be the one to say to the family member 'have a seat, let me get you some water.' this was something born of the original concept that each member of the team had something unique to offer, and with out these aspects she feels a lot more interchangeable and unlikeable to me, or at least closed off. I think there would've been a way to give her that agent status without loosing that humility and mindfulness towards others that made her unique and toned down her 'mean girl'-ness. 

Also, ****SPOILER**** i really don't see her as a unit leader 

Sorry to be responding rather late to this. JJ did not need to be given agent status because she already had it. But other than that I feel your assessment of the character  is rather spot on.

[Mislav]

"200" was a trainwreck.

 

 

Almost no actual profile work, in a 200th episode of a crime/mystery show about profilers and behavioral science.

 

 

JJ's backstory, as revealed in "200", made no sense. There's no way she'd be assigned to tracking down Osama Bin-Laden. I know that she wasn't a team leader or anything, but still.

 

 

Almost solely focused on JJ, with other characters not really amouting to anything. In 200th episode of the show, no less.

 

 

The team that JJ was a part of was ambushed in Afghanistan, she suffered a miscarriage as a result, and in over two years since she returned, there was not even a hint that she ever suffered such a traumatic experience-until the 200th episode came along.

 

 

It would have been pretty bad even as a "regular" episode-let alone 200th episode.

 

 

I do agree about Beth though-she was cute. I don't get the criticism.

 

 

Also, somebody brought up the unsub from "Pleasure is my Business" as a comparison; speaking of that, I never really cared much for Megan Kane, honestly. Her storyline just came off as cliche, one-sided and almost emotionally manipulative... and I hate that.

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎04‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 5:18 PM, Unkempt said:

My UO - I actually didn't mind Beth, LOL.  I guess it'd be more accurate to say that I really didn't care about Beth, but she didn't bother me.

I'd love to see Nicholas Brendan return, but he's been having some personal issues.  I really hope he's doing well, because I did like him on the show.

I think it's a given that Diana is mentally declining because that's really the only outcome with dementia.  Medications slow it down, but there really is no improvement, per se.

I'd really love to know about Reid's PTSD, too, but that doesn't seem to be an unpopular opinion, LOL.

Seconded, started watching CI because of all the Buffy alumni who turned up (MT especially impressive as the killer of Reid's girlfriend, Dawn goes EVIL!), love to see Nic back, he seems to be doing a lot better theses days. You wonder if he and Thomas Gibson were drinking buddies?

[Joe Hellandback]

Things I've learnt from watching Criminal Minds; 

1. The FBI can seemingly access every and all computer systems in the world and do so instantly without the need for a warrant from a judge that should be a legal requirement.  

2.  Every small town police department in America has it's own SWAT that it can deploy instantly upon FBI request.

3.  Furthermore that SWAT team will allow the BAU to accompany them into danger rather than tell them to sit to one side and wait.

4. Dr Reid can instantly differentiate between a real and fake rape statement, if he really can this would be an invaluable skill to every police force in the world (it would certainly save Olivia Benson no end of trouble). 

5. Small time police departments will always welcome teams of outside law enforcement with open arms/hero worship rather than resent them as a comment on them not being able to cope with the cases themselves.  

6.  An amazing number of serial killers will be incredibly intelligent, computer literate, well-funded and prepared. But can't shoot for toffee. 

7.  The BAU will never be held to account for the numerous mistakes they make during investigations even if they cause people's deaths. They will also hardly ever be expected to testify in court.

8. Criminal Profiling has a 100% success rate when in reality it has been largely discredited and police prefer geographical profiling instead;

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2010/sep/14/psychological-profile-behavioural-psychology

[Mislav]

1 hour ago, Joe Hellandback said:

Things I've learnt from watching Criminal Minds; 

1. The FBI can seemingly access every and all computer systems in the world and do so instantly without the need for a warrant from a judge that should be a legal requirement.  

2.  Every small town police department in America has it's own SWAT that it can deploy instantly upon FBI request.

3.  Furthermore that SWAT team will allow the BAU to accompany them into danger rather than tell them to sit to one side and wait.

4. Dr Reid can instantly differentiate between a real and fake rape statement, if he really can this would be an invaluable skill to every police force in the world (it would certainly save Olivia Benson no end of trouble). 

5. Small time police departments will always welcome teams of outside law enforcement with open arms/hero worship rather than resent them as a comment on them not being able to cope with the cases themselves.  

6.  An amazing number of serial killers will be incredibly intelligent, computer literate, well-funded and prepared. But can't shoot for toffee. 

7.  The BAU will never be held to account for the numerous mistakes they make during investigations even if they cause people's deaths. They will also hardly ever be expected to testify in court.

8. Criminal Profiling has a 100% success rate when in reality it has been largely discredited and police prefer geographical profiling instead;

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2010/sep/14/psychological-profile-behavioural-psychology

4) When did that ever happen? They only investigated serial rapists a few times, and none of those cases featured a false rape accusation. There was a false rape accusation in 8x19 "Pay It Forward", but Alex was the one to conclude that.

 

7) Again, when did that happen? Maybe in season two finale and season three premiere, with the whole double suicide (and, in latter case, murder/suicide) outcome, but none of those people were innocent civilians who just got caught up in the pursuit, it wasn't just a result of the BAU possibly making a mistake, and the team was sanctioned and investigated by Strauss over those deaths. Elle had murdered a serial rapist, and Hotchner fired her for that, though there was not enough evidence to prosecute her. The closest I can think of is Rossi tricking unsub into trying to shoot him in season ten, so he [Rossi] could gun him down. And didn't they testify in court in 3x19 "Tabula Rasa"?

[Joe Hellandback]

3 hours ago, Mislav said:

4) When did that ever happen? They only investigated serial rapists a few times, and none of those cases featured a false rape accusation. There was a false rape accusation in 8x19 "Pay It Forward", but Alex was the one to conclude that.

 

7) Again, when did that happen? Maybe in season two finale and season three premiere, with the whole double suicide (and, in latter case, murder/suicide) outcome, but none of those people were innocent civilians who just got caught up in the pursuit, it wasn't just a result of the BAU possibly making a mistake, and the team was sanctioned and investigated by Strauss over those deaths. Elle had murdered a serial rapist, and Hotchner fired her for that, though there was not enough evidence to prosecute her. The closest I can think of is Rossi tricking unsub into trying to shoot him in season ten, so he [Rossi] could gun him down. And didn't they testify in court in 3x19 "Tabula Rasa"?

I can't recall the name of the episode but it was where the vigilante was killing those he thought hypocritical including a newspaper editor murdered in her hot tub who campaigned against cannabis but had her own plants growing in her backyard. Reid looks at a rape statement and is able to conclude it is false within 30 seconds. 

A lot of the time the BAU actually point the investigation in the wrong direction and people get killed, we see it in real life like the DC Sniper the FBI comes into huge criticism but that never seems to happen on the show, they should be held more accountable. 

[JMO]

1 hour ago, Joe Hellandback said:

A lot of the time the BAU actually point the investigation in the wrong direction and people get killed, we see it in real life like the DC Sniper the FBI comes into huge criticism but that never seems to happen on the show, they should be held more accountable. 

It's true that the original profile delivered by the BAU is often unfinished, and sometimes completely off base.  But holding them accountable for the ensuing deaths?

There are definitely criticisms to be made of law enforcement for defects within the system---lack of sharing of information, too many layers of protocol, etc.  But that's a far cry from blaming law enforcement for a crime they were unable to stop for lack of interpreting the evidence correctly.  To my mind, it falls to magical thinking (or too much TV watching) to think that any part of law enforcement is an exact science, and especially not psychological profiling.  

Having said that, I have appreciated the few times (can't remember which cases) when Reid has said something like, "I should have known....."  To have the members of the team carry some guilt over getting the initial profile wrong creates the potential for some good drama.  Or, to have the press express the opinion that they should be held accountable.  

But, ultimately, the crime, and the responsibility for the deaths, belong to the killer.

[Mislav]

2 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said:

I can't recall the name of the episode but it was where the vigilante was killing those he thought hypocritical including a newspaper editor murdered in her hot tub who campaigned against cannabis but had her own plants growing in her backyard. Reid looks at a rape statement and is able to conclude it is false within 30 seconds. 

A lot of the time the BAU actually point the investigation in the wrong direction and people get killed, we see it in real life like the DC Sniper the FBI comes into huge criticism but that never seems to happen on the show, they should be held more accountable. 

That was the aforementioned 8x19 "Pay It Forward". And again, Alex was the one to conclude that; though I could be wrong, since it's been a while since I watched that episode. And I am not sure how long it took her, but she provided relatively convincing-albeit circumstantial-proof of that, because the statement was phrased in an odd, contradictory way.

[Danielg342]

On 07/04/2018 at 9:52 AM, Mislav said:

7) Again, when did that happen? Maybe in season two finale and season three premiere, with the whole double suicide (and, in latter case, murder/suicide) outcome, but none of those people were innocent civilians who just got caught up in the pursuit, it wasn't just a result of the BAU possibly making a mistake, and the team was sanctioned and investigated by Strauss over those deaths. Elle had murdered a serial rapist, and Hotchner fired her for that, though there was not enough evidence to prosecute her. The closest I can think of is Rossi tricking unsub into trying to shoot him in season ten, so he [Rossi] could gun him down. And didn't they testify in court in 3x19 "Tabula Rasa"?

• Garcia's searches are illegal. Not quasi-legal or borderline illegal but illegal. I know @Joe Hellandback already mentioned that Garcia often acts without a warrant and searches with ridiculous parameters at times, but I'll go further and state that Garcia has never faced repercussions for what she's done. I understand there's a need for expediency in that the show wouldn't be entertaining if we had to wait for search warrants, but there should also be the understanding that sometimes what Garcia is looking for she couldn't possibly find and/or would need a warrant to access, like health records. I would imagine that census data and maybe even employment information would be available to the FBI (as those are compiled by the government), and stuff that's in broadcast or online news reports or publicly available on social media would also be fair game, but that should be the extent of it.
• "Last Gasp" was full of procedural errors and protocol faux pas that would nullify any guilty verdict that would be given to the UnSub (if it even reached trial). First, it was an unauthorized investigation, because the team wasn't given clearance to pursue the investigation and even undertook it defying their superior's orders. Secondly, Rossi went into an interrogation inside a prison while being a civilian, i.e. not being an agent and having all the clearances that would entail. Third, Prentiss kicked down the door of a dwelling she did not have a warrant to enter, and thus collected evidence in that room illegally. Fourth, while Alvez and JJ were technically part of the BAU at the time, they can't just wave their badges at the hotel clerk and insist he co-operates with the investigation because of it. The BAU still requires a warrant for him to comply. Finally, not only did Garcia perform her rudimentary illegal search, she did so without having the authorization to even perform that search and performed that search in derelict of her duties (she was expressly told not to look into the UnSub beyond identity theft).
• "25 to Life" saw Derek Morgan confront a sitting Congressman and Presidential candidate in his private party without so much as a warrant, then proceed to arrest him for murder on the spot once he grabs the candidate's hand and "observes" the scar on the hand. Now, as I understand the scar could be considered "in plain view" but Morgan would not have been able to enter the party without a warrant, and while the episode tells us the scar was the same one the killer would have, in real life the candidate could easily offer the defence that the scar came from some other accident and there'd be no way for Morgan to prove otherwise without subpoenaing his health records.
• "Hashtag" saw Rossi apply handcuffs to an otherwise innocent civilian simply based on a supposition, only to release him later because they had no evidence to connect him to the crimes. This also saw the BAU bang down the door of another person, also without gathering any evidence that would prove he's connected to the crimes at all.
• Many of the "confessions" the BAU procure involve psychological bullying and other coercive tactics which courts have struck down as inadmissible. In particular, "The Last Word" featured a near perfect execution of the "Reid technique" (not related in any way to our favourite Doctor), which courts have struck down as psychological manipulation. Earlier seasons the show was better at gaining tangible evidence for the crime (thus not needing a confession) or set a pretty high bar for what constituted an "allowable" confession but later seasons (when they even have confessions) have lowered the bar considerably ("Lucky Strikes", where one person confesses to crimes in a haphazard manner right before their death was the worst).
• The vast majority of CM's episodes since S1 involve a take on the following formula:
  1. Episode begins with a murder, the "teaser" victim.
  2. The middle of the episode depicts another murder, the "tension-building" victim.
  3. The final act of the case involves the BAU arriving in the nick of time to stop the murder of the next target, the "final" victim.
  • In the Edward Allen Bernero era, the episodes usually used the "teaser" victim as the crime that compels the locals to call the BAU, with the "tension-building" victim being used as the victim the BAU tried to save but couldn't. They then use whatever knowledge gained from the "tension-building" victim to save the "final" victim, which almost always had a personal connection to the UnSub.
  • In the Erica Messer days, the "teaser" victim still often- but not always- plays the same role, but the "tension-building" victim is often a victim that is felled right underneath the BAU's noses without so much as the BAU even lifting a finger to try to save them. The BAU often simply use this victim to find clues in order to save the "final" victim, which, like the Bernero days, had a personal connection to the UnSub but is one which, increasingly in Messer's day, is a familial connection in some way.
  • Now, I'm not suggesting that the BAU should be held responsible for the murders that happen after they take over an investigation but, more often than not, when there is a high profile case or a high body count, there's always a review of the investigation. Many times, the police are held to account for their actions and are often criticized for their inaction- right now, following the arrest of Bruce McArthur, there are plenty within Toronto's gay village who are critical of police for not heeding warnings of a serial killer in their midst and for being so slow in their investigation. Similar complaints about police inaction can be seen in the cases of the Grim Sleeper, while the Richard Allen Davis case saw laws written up to prevent similar circumstances (in Davis' case, it's the "three strikes" law).
    
    This kind of review never happens in the CM world, unless it's to paint the reviewer (Strauss, Barnes) as some "bad guy" wanting to destroy the team. Reality would hold that every one of the BAU's cases would be under review, and that the team would likely face considerable public pressure to close cases quickly. In addition to this, the FBI would likely face lawsuits and a barrage of public complaints for each of the victims the BAU failed to save, especially in these more recent episodes where it's apparent that the BAU simply uses "tension-building" victim to build the profile for the "final" victim and doesn't lift a finger to stop the other murders from happening. Reality would likely dictate that the BAU would burn through Unit Chiefs and even team members a lot more than the show depicts because of all this stress. Yeah, I grant that in the vast majority of cases there really was "nothing the BAU could do" but, say that to someone who lost their loved one and they found out the investigators didn't even try to save their special someone.
    
    ...yeah.

I'm sure there's others but this post is long enough.

[Mislav]

10 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

• Garcia's searches are illegal. Not quasi-legal or borderline illegal but illegal. I know @Joe Hellandback already mentioned that Garcia often acts without a warrant and searches with ridiculous parameters at times, but I'll go further and state that Garcia has never faced repercussions for what she's done. I understand there's a need for expediency in that the show wouldn't be entertaining if we had to wait for search warrants, but there should also be the understanding that sometimes what Garcia is looking for she couldn't possibly find and/or would need a warrant to access, like health records. I would imagine that census data and maybe even employment information would be available to the FBI (as those are compiled by the government), and stuff that's in broadcast or online news reports or publicly available on social media would also be fair game, but that should be the extent of it.
• "Last Gasp" was full of procedural errors and protocol faux pas that would nullify any guilty verdict that would be given to the UnSub (if it even reached trial). First, it was an unauthorized investigation, because the team wasn't given clearance to pursue the investigation and even undertook it defying their superior's orders. Secondly, Rossi went into an interrogation inside a prison while being a civilian, i.e. not being an agent and having all the clearances that would entail. Third, Prentiss kicked down the door of a dwelling she did not have a warrant to enter, and thus collected evidence in that room illegally. Fourth, while Alvez and JJ were technically part of the BAU at the time, they can't just wave their badges at the hotel clerk and insist he co-operates with the investigation because of it. The BAU still requires a warrant for him to comply. Finally, not only did Garcia perform her rudimentary illegal search, she did so without having the authorization to even perform that search and performed that search in derelict of her duties (she was expressly told not to look into the UnSub beyond identity theft).
• "25 to Life" saw Derek Morgan confront a sitting Congressman and Presidential candidate in his private party without so much as a warrant, then proceed to arrest him for murder on the spot once he grabs the candidate's hand and "observes" the scar on the hand. Now, as I understand the scar could be considered "in plain view" but Morgan would not have been able to enter the party without a warrant, and while the episode tells us the scar was the same one the killer would have, in real life the candidate could easily offer the defence that the scar came from some other accident and there'd be no way for Morgan to prove otherwise without subpoenaing his health records.
• "Hashtag" saw Rossi apply handcuffs to an otherwise innocent civilian simply based on a supposition, only to release him later because they had no evidence to connect him to the crimes. This also saw the BAU bang down the door of another person, also without gathering any evidence that would prove he's connected to the crimes at all.
• Many of the "confessions" the BAU procure involve psychological bullying and other coercive tactics which courts have struck down as inadmissible. In particular, "The Last Word" featured a near perfect execution of the "Reid technique" (not related in any way to our favourite Doctor), which courts have struck down as psychological manipulation. Earlier seasons the show was better at gaining tangible evidence for the crime (thus not needing a confession) or set a pretty high bar for what constituted an "allowable" confession but later seasons (when they even have confessions) have lowered the bar considerably ("Lucky Strikes", where one person confesses to crimes in a haphazard manner right before their death was the worst).
• The vast majority of CM's episodes since S1 involve a take on the following formula:
  1. Episode begins with a murder, the "teaser" victim.
  2. The middle of the episode depicts another murder, the "tension-building" victim.
  3. The final act of the case involves the BAU arriving in the nick of time to stop the murder of the next target, the "final" victim.
  • In the Edward Allen Bernero era, the episodes usually used the "teaser" victim as the crime that compels the locals to call the BAU, with the "tension-building" victim being used as the victim the BAU tried to save but couldn't. They then use whatever knowledge gained from the "tension-building" victim to save the "final" victim, which almost always had a personal connection to the UnSub.
  • In the Erica Messer days, the "teaser" victim still often- but not always- plays the same role, but the "tension-building" victim is often a victim that is felled right underneath the BAU's noses without so much as the BAU even lifting a finger to try to save them. The BAU often simply use this victim to find clues in order to save the "final" victim, which, like the Bernero days, had a personal connection to the UnSub but is one which, increasingly in Messer's day, is a familial connection in some way.
  • Now, I'm not suggesting that the BAU should be held responsible for the murders that happen after they take over an investigation but, more often than not, when there is a high profile case or a high body count, there's always a review of the investigation. Many times, the police are held to account for their actions and are often criticized for their inaction- right now, following the arrest of Bruce McArthur, there are plenty within Toronto's gay village who are critical of police for not heeding warnings of a serial killer in their midst and for being so slow in their investigation. Similar complaints about police inaction can be seen in the cases of the Grim Sleeper, while the Richard Allen Davis case saw laws written up to prevent similar circumstances (in Davis' case, it's the "three strikes" law).
    
    This kind of review never happens in the CM world, unless it's to paint the reviewer (Strauss, Barnes) as some "bad guy" wanting to destroy the team. Reality would hold that every one of the BAU's cases would be under review, and that the team would likely face considerable public pressure to close cases quickly. In addition to this, the FBI would likely face lawsuits and a barrage of public complaints for each of the victims the BAU failed to save, especially in these more recent episodes where it's apparent that the BAU simply uses "tension-building" victim to build the profile for the "final" victim and doesn't lift a finger to stop the other murders from happening. Reality would likely dictate that the BAU would burn through Unit Chiefs and even team members a lot more than the show depicts because of all this stress. Yeah, I grant that in the vast majority of cases there really was "nothing the BAU could do" but, say that to someone who lost their loved one and they found out the investigators didn't even try to save their special someone.
    
    ...yeah.

I'm sure there's others but this post is long enough.

I am not arguing that everything they do is legal (I've complained about Garcia's hacking before), but none of those things caused innocent person's death, which seemed to be the main objection in the original post. Also, none of those things were mistakes [in a way that they led them in the wrong direction or ruined innocent person's life] because the team turned out to be in the right. [Except the time when Rossi handcuffed an unarmed suspect in "Hashtag".] Not to mention that, like you pointed out, there are agencies and experts in charge of reviewing the investigations-so why are they not doing their job here? Of course the writing is contrived in later seasons (including the current one), and it can get really annoying, but still, not all the fault is on the BAU. And lastly, is not like they have put an innocent person away or gotten an innocent party killed... yet. Of course it isn't realistic-but I care more about the cases themselves being realistic, which, sadly, is almost non-existent now. I'd rather not have Garcia do so many illegal searches or profilers tricking/manipulating an unsub into confessing, but I don't think that's the main problem, at least not currently. I mean, they also did some questionable things to protect Reid and get him out of prison in season twelve, but I didn't mind, because things could have worked out very differently (read: worse) if they hadn't. But, of course, I really wanted him out...

Edited April 9, 2018 by Mislav

[Danielg342]

2 hours ago, Mislav said:

None of those things were mistakes [in a way that they led them in the wrong direction or ruined innocent person's life] because the team turned out to be in the right. [Except the time when Rossi handcuffed an unarmed suspect in "Hashtag".]

@Joe Hellandback's original point was simply that the team never did get called out for their mistakes or faced tough questions about their results- there was nothing about impacting an innocent's life.

I'll grant that CM has many more problems now, but the show used to acknowledge the law and try to follow it (even if they actually didn't) whereas now the team acts with sheer contempt of it without repercussion, and that bothers me.

[THATNOTGEEK]

Okay, pick this for a series finale arc(s). 

 

Garcia is criminally charged, for virtually ignoring the right to privacy, and takes a guilty plea, striping her of the BAU but only in prison for a short amount of time then gets a new job. (final episode) 

Reid starts to suffer from schizophrenia, but before a full break, he names Tara in his position before leaving the BAU. (arc)

Prentiss reconciles a spark with Mark, (that English guy that Prentiss was dating in Tribute) and goes back to London, but before leaving she names JJ as the Unit Chief. (dealt with throughout season, but not full arc)

Rossi has retires from the BAU, to dedicate his time as a grandfather, (but in an episode later in whatever season) he's actually looking for Hotch, to make sure if he's okay, and to tell him about the ending of Peter Lewis. (1 episode at the beginning of the season, and 1 episode at the end [guess starring Thomas Gibson]) 

JJ names new members for the team and the new team answers a call to a mass serial killer. (near the end of the final episode) 

 

Why am I pitching all of this? Because any of this could be more well written episodes than the new seasons. Personally, of the new ones, 8, 10, and 12 were some of the best. Does anyone agree with any of this?

Edited June 16, 2018 by THATNOTGEEK

[Lefty31]

I never really "Hated" JJ. But she gets on my nerves. ALOT. Lately it seems like she thinks she better then Reid and other character that have been there longer and have been Profilers longer (like ROSSI). I didn't mind JJ before she became a profiler. Then she did and after her fight with Reid I was like Nah. I'm out. I don't hate her but I wouldn't mind seeing less of her each week. 

I can't say I'm mad about Morgan leaving. His relationship with Garcia in my eyes crossed a line. They are suppose to be professionals working for the FBI. The fact that they did all of this stuff in front of Victims, parents, Police officers and their coworkers makes me want to scream. How the hell did this continue for 11 freakin seasons? I don't understand. Honestly Garcia started to get on my nerves a lot after season 6 or 7. The one thing that really bothered me was her being so upset about having to shoot someone. I get it, I wouldn't want to shoot someone either. But you WITNESSED him trying to kill your friend and an FBI agent. Reid would have done it himself, except for the fact that he couldn't. First person you shoot is the hardest. Reid has said it himself. But I don't think Reid ever would have gone and tried to apologize for shooting someone to save his life or the life of one of his friends/teammates.

It really bothers me that Garcia states that she is a genius. Sure she is good at technology but that doesn't make you a genius. The only genius on the team is Spencer.  He has a high IQ  which DUH makes you a genius. There is a lot of things about Garcia that have been annoying me. First off, I don't think she dresses professionally at all. If I saw her I would NEVER see her or think of her as an FBI agent. She doesn't act or dress like one so why should anyone treat her like one.

Is anyone else tired of Reid's tragic stories. Jail, his mom being kidnapped, his mom's mental illness and then on top of that dementia/Alzheimers. Being shot 3 times. His girlfriend dying in front of him. His mentor dying. Emily "Dying". Being kidnapped and drugged. Being groomed as a child. Being bullied as a child. His father leaving. Having to institutionalize his mom at age 18. Being kidnapped a few times.  Now, he could be in danger again. At least Garcia is involved its about time something happened to her. She's been shot, thats about it. Sure she has been targeted a few times but  nothing HAPPENED to her. She was saved. BY REID. 

I'm tired really on how they treat Spencer as a character. I am NOT surprised that MGG misses multiple episodes per season since season 11. He has one foot out the door and I think he has for a long time. I don't think that the writers, show runners etc realize how incredibly important Spencer is. All I see on twitter when Reid is gone Is Where's Spencer? Because fans LOVE him. Legit a lot people who watch the show  are in love with Reid. I don't think that people would mind JJ/Garcia as much if Reid was treated with respect. 

Why is Reid NEVER on raids. You see him in the car but then all of a sudden he is gone. He's always left behind. Is he NOT an FBI agent or a member of the BAU?

ALSO SOMETHING I HAVE TO SAY 

PTSS? WTF is that. I have never once in my life heard of anyone calling it that. Therapist people who have PTSD have only called it that. PTSD is something that doesn't just go away either. So if Spencer has it and has had it since season 2 that should have been reflected. JJ having PTSD means she has had it since the event. It isn't something that doesn't just go away.  It annoys me to NO end when they call it PTSS. Its PTSD and that's what it has been for years. That's how it is in the DSM-5. Thats what they should call it.

 

Also I HATE it when they call Reid "Kid". He is now in his late 30's. Yes he is the youngest of the team but he's not a kid and they need to stop treating him as such.

Edited July 8, 2018 by Lefty31

[Danielg342]

1 hour ago, Lefty31 said:

I'm tired really on how they treat Spencer as a character. I am NOT surprised that MGG misses multiple episodes per season since season 11.

I am too. Lately, the only time Reid ever seems to appear is he's the central character in the episode- and doing just about everything. The S13 finale is a perfect example of that.

I do think, though, that it's a criticism that you could level about the writing for any character on CM, really. Other than Prentiss as team leader and Garcia as the Deus Ex Machina database expert, does anyone on the team really have a well-defined role? I find that the characters tend to only shine if it's their "turn" to get their own "very special episode". Otherwise, they're just robots who fulfill whatever the plot needs them to do. This just gets more noticeable with Reid because I think he's the only "likeable" character left- Matthew Gray Gubler, the professional that he is, seems to be the only one not mailing it in every week.

[Lefty31]

25 minutes ago, Danielg342 said:

I am too. Lately, the only time Reid ever seems to appear is he's the central character in the episode- and doing just about everything. The S13 finale is a perfect example of that.

I do think, though, that it's a criticism that you could level about the writing for any character on CM, really. Other than Prentiss as team leader and Garcia as the Deus Ex Machina database expert, does anyone on the team really have a well-defined role? I find that the characters tend to only shine if it's their "turn" to get their own "very special episode". Otherwise, they're just robots who fulfill whatever the plot needs them to do. This just gets more noticeable with Reid because I think he's the only "likeable" character left- Matthew Gray Gubler, the professional that he is, seems to be the only one not mailing it in every week.

I agree. They have so much potential with the characters but they fall flat every single time. I think we have had enough JJ centric episodes for a while. I feel like they just need to give her character a break. They could really change the way they write the episodes and it would bring in more fans. Maybe have 1 centric character episode per season or something like that. Utilize the team more. Because they feel the need to have certain characters be in the front  they are letting the other characters fall to the waste side and its infuriating 

But I have a serious question

Can someone PLEASE explain to me why Reid NEVER has a ear piece to hear his team like everyone else? He was seen wearing them until season 3 or 4 and then he stopped and can be seen wearing them in a handful of episodes. 

That is something that bothers me. I don't know why but it just seems like its something that every agent or officer should have for their safety. I don't know if Reid is wearing something else but it seems unlikely. Its like the show writers are trying TO hard to push these points about Reids characters that sometimes its too much. 

[JenJenBosco]

I have a few unpopular opinions:

I don't like when the actors make things happen with their characters, unless it goes against the character's normal behavior.  (Like Shemar and MGG not wanting to have Morgan and Reid interact after their goodbye on screen).  It doesn't make sense that Morgan wouldn't interact with Reid given their bond as best friends.

I really wish that character's who have been written off, stay written off.  This means that I wouldn't want Elle, Gideon, JJ, Prentiss, Blake, Callahan, Morgan or Hotch back.  -> I wish they had moved on from all of these characters instead of bringing them back.  JJ hasn't been the same since she originally left.  Prentiss has changed far too much, and I still get angry about her expecting everyone to forgive her right away to the point that she guilt tripped Reid, when he expressed his feelings.  I haven't found that it makes any sense for Morgan to come back, and it's awkward when he does.  I like all of these characters, but I definitely wish they had let things go when they wrote them off.

That said, given Hotch's ending, I wish that they would've written him to want to be a stay-at-home dad in season 5 (when Haley died) or season 9 (when he could have taken Strauss' job).  It would have made more sense than him suddenly giving up the job now.  

Also, along with that, I really don't like the idea that Prentiss would give up Interpol to work for the BAU, I don't like her as Unit Chief, and I wish that they had at least ASKED Reid if he wanted the job.  

In the first few seasons, I honestly didn't even notice Garcia or JJ, and I really would have preferred that it stayed that way.  The focus should be on the profilers, so now that JJ is one, I can understand her focus, although there is a bit too much, but I don't understand having any type of focus on Garcia.  We know far too much about her love life with Lynch, and we've seen far more in recent seasons, which brings me to another point.

I HATE the personal stories.  This show was never meant to be about the Profilers personal lives, it's supposed to be about the case.  I feel like if they wrote the stories better, I might enjoy it, but since they repeat stories (how many times did Derek and Savannah struggle with balance?) and they don't seem to make things even for every team member, I'd rather we just didn't have them at all.

That said, I also dislike Centric stories.  Why do we need a Hotch centric or JJ centric or Morgan centric, and as much as I love and miss Reid when he's gone, we don't need a Centric for him either.  The team screen time should be divided up equally, when they make it a centric, it's automatically tilted in that person's favor.  I feel like if they are dead set on centrics, then they should make it clear who gets what episode and it's split evenly (I.e. every character gets the same amount of episodes).  

I also wish they'd get rid of the team being targeted, it's totally unreal, and makes zero sense.  -> note on this, if they are going to do it, it should also be even as to who gets targeted, (ie,  Reid needs a break from being the target).

I never understood how anyone could support the Morgan/Garcia flirting where anyone else can hear them.  In private, it's okay, but when Morgan is around others on the phone, it makes me uncomfortable, so I can only imagine how it feels for everyone else.

I never really liked JJ or Garcia, they were just kind of there for me.  So, I disliked any focus on either of them, I also dislike Garcia calling herself a 'genius', as she isn't one.

I also don't like that the team (until recently) always called each other by last names, like even in 'the apprenticeship' Morgan is out at the baseball field with Reid, and calls him 'Reid' when it would make more sense to call him 'Spencer', like are you not friends?  Kind of doesn't seem like it.  

I'm sure I have more, but at the moment, I can't think of them.

[Annber03]

26 minutes ago, JenJenBosco said:

I don't like when the actors make things happen with their characters, unless it goes against the character's normal behavior.  (Like Shemar and MGG not wanting to have Morgan and Reid interact after their goodbye on screen).  It doesn't make sense that Morgan wouldn't interact with Reid given their bond as best friends.

Is that the actors' decision, or is it just more the writing and timing just hasn't worked somehow to get them to interact? 'Cause I can't imagine Moore and Gubler would not want their characters to see each other at some point.

Quote

I wish that they had at least ASKED Reid if he wanted the job.  

I don't really feel they would've needed to, simply because of the fact they knew already that he would've said no. I honestly don't think he has any interest in running the team-if he did, he would've said so at some point. Plus, given all he's been through lately with his time in jail and all, I imagine that's probably a factor in him not being leader, too. If he's being required to do a 100/30 day sort of thing as part of his reinstatement, then I'm guessing people aren't looking to him to take over a team anytime soon. 

That said, a discussion about that could've been interesting all the same, just to see Reid weighing the pros and cons of the idea in and of itself. I think Reid would be an excellent team leader if he ever did want the job, mind, but I would also understand why he wouldn't. 

Regarding the personal stories/centric-episodes, I feel like your stance on them is more popular than not, as that's a comment I've heard from many who watch these kinds of crime dramas (I've seen people say the same thing about "NCIS" and 'CSI" and shows like that as well). I feel I'm in the minority when I say I do like the personal stories on this show and learning more about the team's personal lives :p. Yes, the cases are interesting-there's been a few particularly memorable ones that have stuck with me-and yes, it's interesting to see what the team members are like on the job.

But I have to be invested in the characters first and foremost in order to stick with any show, and the reason these characters click with me is in large part because of what I learn about their lives outside the job. The compare/contrast between their lives outside of work and during work, and how they balance (or struggle to balance) both aspects is interesting to me, as is how their personal pasts/family lives/etc. affect how they do their job. If I wanted to simply learn how FBI agents do their jobs in and of itself, I could just go read or watch a true crime story, where I can get the accurate picture of how the whole thing works. 

Quote

I also wish they'd get rid of the team being targeted, it's totally unreal, and makes zero sense.  -> note on this, if they are going to do it, it should also be even as to who gets targeted, (ie,  Reid needs a break from being the target).

I will fully agree with you on this one. The team deals with plenty enough drama and danger just working a typical case as it is, it's fine to just leave it at that for now. The past six seasons alone have involved a character or the team at large being targeted to some degree, whether it was a season-long thing or something that happened over the course of a few episodes. That's a lot of personal vendettas happening there :p. These poor people deserve a damn break already!

And that's especially true if the show is looking to wind things down and wrap up for good in the near future, too. They should be at the point now where they're letting the characters all take a breather from the threats and targeted attacks, and let us see them working to move on from all they've been through in recent years, as well as perhaps looking forward to whatever they decide to do going forward, whether they stick with the FBI and the BAU in particular or go do something else entirely. Anyone who's still watching at this stage in the show's run doesn't need the drama of "Somebody's in danger!" to remain invested. 

[JenJenBosco]

3 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

Is that the actors' decision, or is it just more the writing and timing just hasn't worked somehow to get them to interact? 'Cause I can't imagine Moore and Gubler would not want their characters to see each other at some point.

I was under the impression that they loved the goodbye so much that they didn't think they could do a better one, and requested that they didn't interact on screen anymore.  Though I could be wrong.  

5 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

But I have to be invested in the characters first and foremost in order to stick with any show, and the reason these characters click with me is in large part because of what I learn about their lives outside the job. The compare/contrast between their lives outside of work and during work, and how they balance (or struggle to balance) both aspects is interesting to me, as is how their personal pasts/family lives/etc. affect how they do their job. If I wanted to simply learn how FBI agents do their jobs in and of itself, I could just go read or watch a true crime story, where I can get the accurate picture of how the whole thing works. 

I understand what you're saying here, at first, I really liked them, and it does help to invest in the characters more if we learn about their lives, but now, the stories never the touch the cases like they did before.  They're just bookends that are random to me.  I feel like if the stories were distributed to everyone more evenly it might help, but also, there seems to be this uh, repeat situation that bothers me to no end.   -> although if the story is related to something in the case, I like it.  It's just when it feels random, like Hotch and Rossi at that Jazz club after he broke up with Beth.  Or Morgan and Savannah having another issue with their jobs, which didn't contribute to the case.  Versus say, learning about Morgan's past to get him out of prison (in season 2) or his and Reid's bullying which expanded on Reid's connection with Owen in season 3.  You know what I'm saying?  If it connects, I like it, but lately, it feels like the personal stories are completely separated from the case.

[Annber03]

56 minutes ago, JenJenBosco said:

I was under the impression that they loved the goodbye so much that they didn't think they could do a better one, and requested that they didn't interact on screen anymore.  Though I could be wrong.  

Ah, I see. I hadn't heard about that theory-if that's the case, I kinda get that (the goodbye scene between Morgan and Reid was indeed lovely and sweet and always gets to me whenever I watch that episode), but at the same time, Morgan had an emotional and touching goodbye with Garcia, too, when he left, and yet he's still made a point to see her when he's popped back in. So I don't see where it'd have to be any different with Reid, really. Especially given Morgan made a point of giving his son "Spencer" as a middle name. I would think they'd want to meet up just so Reid could hear how the kid he was partially named after is doing :D. 

Quote

I understand what you're saying here, at first, I really liked them, and it does help to invest in the characters more if we learn about their lives, but now, the stories never the touch the cases like they did before.  They're just bookends that are random to me.  I feel like if the stories were distributed to everyone more evenly it might help, but also, there seems to be this uh, repeat situation that bothers me to no end.   -> although if the story is related to something in the case, I like it.  It's just when it feels random, like Hotch and Rossi at that Jazz club after he broke up with Beth.  Or Morgan and Savannah having another issue with their jobs, which didn't contribute to the case.  Versus say, learning about Morgan's past to get him out of prison (in season 2) or his and Reid's bullying which expanded on Reid's connection with Owen in season 3.  You know what I'm saying?  If it connects, I like it, but lately, it feels like the personal stories are completely separated from the case.

That makes sense, yeah, the repetition of the personal stories. I can go with that. I don't need them to necessarily be connected to the cases-it's interesting when they are, yeah, but it's nice to have that separation from time to time, too-but yeah, it would be nice to have a little more variety in the types of personal stories they tell. I know we've talked before about how nice it'd be to see the team doing stuff outside of work that didn't involve hanging out with each other or their families. Garcia's got her knitting group she's mentioned a time or two, it'd be fun to see a snippet of her at one of those gatherings. Or Reid at the chess park, or some other place he's found as a hangout away from the job and the team. Emily likes to go out dancing, so we could see a small scene of her there or talking to somebody she knows from there. Or other random things of that sort, that don't involve the typical relationship/family stuff we often see with them. I'd be cool with that. 

[JenJenBosco]

24 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

Ah, I see. I hadn't heard about that theory-if that's the case, I kinda get that (the goodbye scene between Morgan and Reid was indeed lovely and sweet and always gets to me whenever I watch that episode), but at the same time, Morgan had an emotional and touching goodbye with Garcia, too, when he left, and yet he's still made a point to see her when he's popped back in. So I don't see where it'd have to be any different with Reid, really. Especially given Morgan made a point of giving his son "Spencer" as a middle name. I would think they'd want to meet up just so Reid could hear how the kid he was partially named after is doing :D. 

That makes sense, yeah, the repetition of the personal stories. I can go with that. I don't need them to necessarily be connected to the cases-it's interesting when they are, yeah, but it's nice to have that separation from time to time, too-but yeah, it would be nice to have a little more variety in the types of personal stories they tell. I know we've talked before about how nice it'd be to see the team doing stuff outside of work that didn't involve hanging out with each other or their families. Garcia's got her knitting group she's mentioned a time or two, it'd be fun to see a snippet of her at one of those gatherings. Or Reid at the chess park, or some other place he's found as a hangout away from the job and the team. Emily likes to go out dancing, so we could see a small scene of her there or talking to somebody she knows from there. Or other random things of that sort, that don't involve the typical relationship/family stuff we often see with them. I'd be cool with that. 

I can see what you're saying.  Yeah, I thought I'd read it somewhere that the actors thought they wouldn't be able to top that scene -and I agree, it was a fantastic scene, however, as you pointed out, Morgan and Garcia had a nice scene, too, and yet, they still interact, and it's jarring that Morgan and Reid haven't had a scene, even when they are both in an episode.  Also, It'd be nice if we saw everyone's outside lives every once in awhile, the team as family stuff is a little old though, and a bit strange.  I would enjoy seeing Reid at the park with that kid he plays chess with, like we saw in the Uncanny Valley, and it's nice to see snippets like the beginning of the Fisher King, just in every episode, it feels a little forced.  Especially when they repeat things.

[Keywestclubkid]

wouldn't Garcia be a HR nightmare with the overly flirting?

[K42]

My problem with Garcia is that she never grew up. I liked her in the first 7 seasons but then she started to get on my nerves. I don't mind her flirting as much as I mind how immature she (and the actress) come off. I don't want this come off in a bad way but I'm kinda scared of Kristen's weight. Whenever she wears heels and walks or runs with them, she wobbles like there's no tomorrow! I kind a sense that her weight is pressing on her ability to walk properly. Heels are already difficult to walk in without being heavy. Being heavy and wearing them adds a lot more pressure to your feet because you're already trying to balance yourself while working with the extra heavy weight you have. It's more of a health concern I have with her. Personality wise, Garcia needs to toughen up. All those years in BAU and she still hasn't learned to poker face when being in a dangerous (ex. elevator) situation. She also needs to dressing more professionally. She needs to tone down her makeup and wardrobe. She literally hasn't changed since season 1. Everybody on the show grew except her. 

I'm glad Morgan's gone. I never liked him or his storylines. I always got the feeling like the actor can't really act. The only emotion he could portray well is anger. Even when he's talking normally, he has this brashness about him. Also, stop bringing him back. His scenes add nothing to the show and make for an awkward encounter. 

I like new Emily. She's like a unique Hotch 2.0. Except she's more of a badass with her spy background. I also wanna see her personal life explored more. I wanna know if she has another secret besides being a former spy. Paget is just fascinating to watch in any role you give her.

Gideon should have never been. I like his acting but after watching Hotch be the leader for so long, you realize that TG crushes Mandy in every possible way. Thomas Gibson made Hotchner the backbone of the show. He left a much bigger hole in the show than Mandy's Gideon ever did. 

I don't care about JJ. She's as important to me as Morgan was. Then again, I haven't liked AJ Cook since Tru Calling. One thing I HATE about her character is that she always comes out trauma like it never happened. I remember this ending scene where she's talking to the ghost of the former whatever haunting her after post kidnap story. She closes the file and yells "NO!" and poof, there goes her ptsd for the next seasons to come. We never see her struggling with what happened to her. Ever. 

The Writers need to give MGG the permission to write Reid. I feel like he can bring out something very interesting in Reid. Whenever he directs an episode, it has a bit of a dark" atmosphere. I feel like MGG is interested in a darker Reid. I'd like to see what his version of Reid will look like. 

Fire Erica Messy.

Bring other writers.
 

Edited August 15, 2018 by The Raw Category

[Hotchgirl18]

On 7/14/2018 at 3:43 PM, JenJenBosco said:

I have a few unpopular opinions:

I don't like when the actors make things happen with their characters, unless it goes against the character's normal behavior.  (Like Shemar and MGG not wanting to have Morgan and Reid interact after their goodbye on screen).  It doesn't make sense that Morgan wouldn't interact with Reid given their bond as best friends.

I really wish that character's who have been written off, stay written off.  This means that I wouldn't want Elle, Gideon, JJ, Prentiss, Blake, Callahan, Morgan or Hotch back.  -> I wish they had moved on from all of these characters instead of bringing them back.  JJ hasn't been the same since she originally left.  Prentiss has changed far too much, and I still get angry about her expecting everyone to forgive her right away to the point that she guilt tripped Reid, when he expressed his feelings.  I haven't found that it makes any sense for Morgan to come back, and it's awkward when he does.  I like all of these characters, but I definitely wish they had let things go when they wrote them off.

That said, given Hotch's ending, I wish that they would've written him to want to be a stay-at-home dad in season 5 (when Haley died) or season 9 (when he could have taken Strauss' job).  It would have made more sense than him suddenly giving up the job now.  

Also, along with that, I really don't like the idea that Prentiss would give up Interpol to work for the BAU, I don't like her as Unit Chief, and I wish that they had at least ASKED Reid if he wanted the job.  

In the first few seasons, I honestly didn't even notice Garcia or JJ, and I really would have preferred that it stayed that way.  The focus should be on the profilers, so now that JJ is one, I can understand her focus, although there is a bit too much, but I don't understand having any type of focus on Garcia.  We know far too much about her love life with Lynch, and we've seen far more in recent seasons, which brings me to another point.

I HATE the personal stories.  This show was never meant to be about the Profilers personal lives, it's supposed to be about the case.  I feel like if they wrote the stories better, I might enjoy it, but since they repeat stories (how many times did Derek and Savannah struggle with balance?) and they don't seem to make things even for every team member, I'd rather we just didn't have them at all.

That said, I also dislike Centric stories.  Why do we need a Hotch centric or JJ centric or Morgan centric, and as much as I love and miss Reid when he's gone, we don't need a Centric for him either.  The team screen time should be divided up equally, when they make it a centric, it's automatically tilted in that person's favor.  I feel like if they are dead set on centrics, then they should make it clear who gets what episode and it's split evenly (I.e. every character gets the same amount of episodes).  

I also wish they'd get rid of the team being targeted, it's totally unreal, and makes zero sense.  -> note on this, if they are going to do it, it should also be even as to who gets targeted, (ie,  Reid needs a break from being the target).

I never understood how anyone could support the Morgan/Garcia flirting where anyone else can hear them.  In private, it's okay, but when Morgan is around others on the phone, it makes me uncomfortable, so I can only imagine how it feels for everyone else.

I never really liked JJ or Garcia, they were just kind of there for me.  So, I disliked any focus on either of them, I also dislike Garcia calling herself a 'genius', as she isn't one.

I also don't like that the team (until recently) always called each other by last names, like even in 'the apprenticeship' Morgan is out at the baseball field with Reid, and calls him 'Reid' when it would make more sense to call him 'Spencer', like are you not friends?  Kind of doesn't seem like it.  

I'm sure I have more, but at the moment, I can't think of them.

Reid should've been unit chief. 

On 8/15/2018 at 5:37 AM, K42 said:

My problem with Garcia is that she never grew up. I liked her in the first 7 seasons but then she started to get on my nerves. I don't mind her flirting as much as I mind how immature she (and the actress) come off. I don't want this come off in a bad way but I'm kinda scared of Kristen's weight. Whenever she wears heels and walks or runs with them, she wobbles like there's no tomorrow! I kind a sense that her weight is pressing on her ability to walk properly. Heels are already difficult to walk in without being heavy. Being heavy and wearing them adds a lot more pressure to your feet because you're already trying to balance yourself while working with the extra heavy weight you have. It's more of a health concern I have with her. Personality wise, Garcia needs to toughen up. All those years in BAU and she still hasn't learned to poker face when being in a dangerous (ex. elevator) situation. She also needs to dressing more professionally. She needs to tone down her makeup and wardrobe. She literally hasn't changed since season 1. Everybody on the show grew except her. 

I'm glad Morgan's gone. I never liked him or his storylines. I always got the feeling like the actor can't really act. The only emotion he could portray well is anger. Even when he's talking normally, he has this brashness about him. Also, stop bringing him back. His scenes add nothing to the show and make for an awkward encounter. 

I like new Emily. She's like a unique Hotch 2.0. Except she's more of a badass with her spy background. I also wanna see her personal life explored more. I wanna know if she has another secret besides being a former spy. Paget is just fascinating to watch in any role you give her.

Gideon should have never been. I like his acting but after watching Hotch be the leader for so long, you realize that TG crushes Mandy in every possible way. Thomas Gibson made Hotchner the backbone of the show. He left a much bigger hole in the show than Mandy's Gideon ever did. 

I don't care about JJ. She's as important to me as Morgan was. Then again, I haven't liked AJ Cook since Tru Calling. One thing I HATE about her character is that she always comes out trauma like it never happened. I remember this ending scene where she's talking to the ghost of the former whatever haunting her after post kidnap story. She closes the file and yells "NO!" and poof, there goes her ptsd for the next seasons to come. We never see her struggling with what happened to her. Ever. 

The Writers need to give MGG the permission to write Reid. I feel like he can bring out something very interesting in Reid. Whenever he directs an episode, it has a bit of a dark" atmosphere. I feel like MGG is interested in a darker Reid. I'd like to see what his version of Reid will look like. 

Fire Erica Messy.

Bring other writers.
 

New Emily needs to die. 

Yes to darker Reid. 

Fire Messer. 

She needs to be usurped in the same way the character of Hotch was usurped. Someone pull a Prince Hans on her already (without the killing. Lol)!

[K42]

7 hours ago, Hotchgirl18 said:

Reid should've been unit chief. 

New Emily needs to die. 

Yes to darker Reid. 

Fire Messer. 

She needs to be usurped in the same way the character of Hotch was usurped. Someone pull a Prince Hans on her already (without the killing. Lol)!

I actually loved New Emily. She measures up to Hotch. She and Hotch could have also been the backbone of the show even though Thomas Gibson was able to do that on his own. I'll forever be bitter about what they did to TG. Sorry but some people are just too good to get fired. (Looking at you Kevin Spacey) I wish they separated TG the person from Hotchner. CM started going downhill ever since hotch left. (like House of Cards). It's such a shame. I still see #NoHotchNoWatch every Wed. That says a lot about TG's impact. 

And I was wondering, can someone actually email the people behind CM and make them hire a different writer than Erica. I see so many people complaining about her. How did she become the only writer on the show? She pisses everybody off. We need someone who isn't afraid to get into the actors head and psyche. As for Reid, he's too wishy washy to be a Unit Chief. One day he's aggressive, the next he shuts off, after that he turns into a sensitive dork, the next his headache is gone. I can't deal with that. That's why I think Emily is the only one fits. 

[Hotchgirl18]

11 hours ago, K42 said:

I actually loved New Emily. She measures up to Hotch. She and Hotch could have also been the backbone of the show even though Thomas Gibson was able to do that on his own. I'll forever be bitter about what they did to TG. Sorry but some people are just too good to get fired. (Looking at you Kevin Spacey) I wish they separated TG the person from Hotchner. CM started going downhill ever since hotch left. (like House of Cards). It's such a shame. I still see #NoHotchNoWatch every Wed. That says a lot about TG's impact. 

And I was wondering, can someone actually email the people behind CM and make them hire a different writer than Erica. I see so many people complaining about her. How did she become the only writer on the show? She pisses everybody off. We need someone who isn't afraid to get into the actors head and psyche. As for Reid, he's too wishy washy to be a Unit Chief. One day he's aggressive, the next he shuts off, after that he turns into a sensitive dork, the next his headache is gone. I can't deal with that. That's why I think Emily is the only one fits. 

In my opinion, she doesn't. Look at the two. Totally different. And only one works. There is no intensity. No fierceness or loyalty. Does she event WANT to be unit chief or give a rat's ass about catching the unsub? It's hard to tell. 

 

Reid being wishy washy is 100% on Erica Messer and her misandrist tendencies. 

 

We need a French Revolution storming of the Bastille or something I'm the writer's room and in that team..

[kathyk24]

I think I have the unpopular opinion to top them all. Reid is my least favorite character. I think he's boring and I though his 'romance" with Maeve was a joke. Reid needs someone to tell him when he's wrong. Reid never should have tried to care for his mother on his own especially since his job required travelling. I don't understand the hatred JJ gets I don't think she's a mean girl and I haven't noticed a change in her personality since she came back. I love Prentiss and think she's doing fine as Unit Chief.

[K42]

On 10/19/2018 at 3:49 AM, kathyk24 said:

I think I have the unpopular opinion to top them all. Reid is my least favorite character. I think he's boring and I though his 'romance" with Maeve was a joke. Reid needs someone to tell him when he's wrong. Reid never should have tried to care for his mother on his own especially since his job required travelling. I don't understand the hatred JJ gets I don't think she's a mean girl and I haven't noticed a change in her personality since she came back. I love Prentiss and think she's doing fine as Unit Chief.

*Explodes*