Jump to content
Forums forums
PRIMETIMER
mstaken

Criminal Minds Unpopular Opinions

Recommended Posts

17 hours ago, Annber03 said:

We know, of course, that Hotch and JJ both had valid reasons to help protect Emily in that situation, but even so, I can see where that kind of major lie can shake somebody's trust regardless. It affected Reid's ability to trust JJ.

And here comes my U.O. #5 !

You know, I wanted to wait a while for this one. I wanted to think it through again before I typed it, not because I'm not sure of it (quite the opposite !) but because I want to get it 100% right, without missing one single thought. But since you unexpectedly brought it up, I'm just gonna jump on the opportunity. Let's talk about it !

In 07x02, I think Spencer acted like a real BRAT towards JJ, and I really didn't care for his little tantrum act. He may be the youngest member of the team but he's not a kid. And if my memory's correct, in season 7 he actually turned 30. Which means he was more than old enough to understand a few things. So what part of "We had  to lie to protect Emily" did he not get exactly ? He acted as if JJ meant to hurt him personally when in reality, it wasn't about him at all, just like Hotch had to tell Morgan. It was a matter of life and death, and Hotch made an important decision in order to keep one of their own alive. Of course they had the right to feel hurt, they grieved for 7 long months. But why take it out on JJ ? What was she supposed to do ? Break Hotch's trust and put their mutual friend in danger just to make poor fragile Reid feel better ? Didn't he understand that the more people are in on such secret, the less safe the victim/potential victim is ? 

So I'm sorry no, I guess I really don't see why and how that lie affected Reid's ability to trust JJ. Despite the negative things I say about her sometimes, we all know JJ loves Reid, and It's not like she goes around lying to him every chance she gets. She did it one time folks, ONE time, and for a very serious matter at that. I mean what could be more serious than the life and death of someone you care about ? The fact that she was able to keep that secret for so long to make sure their friend and partner stayed alive, that to me says she's more than trustworthy. And I'm not even a fan of hers by a long shot, but if I was a member of that team, I'd much, much rather put my life in her hands than in Reid's.

They all have this ridiculous tendency to cuddle Reid way too much in that team, so I was soooo glad no one took the time to hold his hand for once. Except for Hotch and JJ, they all mourned the loss of E and were shocked to see her alive, not just Reid. But after the initial anger reaction, Morgan realized that the most important thing was that E was there and he moved on. Even Garcia was actually (oh surprise !) very mature about the whole thing. She was shocked too but she understood the reason behind the lie and was grateful to have her friend and teammate back.

Reid on the other hand, acted as if knowing the truth was far more important than Emily's life. Which, quite frankly, wasn't a good look on him in my eyes. He should've been ashamed of his reaction afterwards, not JJ. As far as I'm concerned, JJ did nothing wrong. I actually cheered on her that day because she gave as good as she got and she didn't back down. No, scratch that, she was still far too gentle. If it was me in her place, best friend or not, Oy...

Because the whole thing was set in motion for her, Emily's the one who owed him a sincere apology. Which she offered. After that, they should've just let bratty Reid alone in his corner to pout for days, even weeks, months if he wanted to. Until he got tired of his own attitude and decided to get over himself and man up. Or not.

Edited by SSA Emily Prentiss
  • Like 8

Share this post


Link to post

I see it so much differently from you, SSAP.  JJ didn't lie to Reid one time.  In order to keep the information from him, JJ had to lie to Reid every single day, for seven months.  While I can't quite see him crying on her shoulder weekly, I can accept that he sought out the comfort of his best friend, to help assuage what he thought was their mutual grief.  To find out that she'd not been grieving Emily at all (but had, one can hope, been grieving the anticipated loss of her best friendship), yet had allowed him to suffer it, was the true betrayal, not the keeping secret of a single ( albeit monumental) fact.  The second slap in the face, and it looked to me as though Morgan felt it too, was the implication that those team members couldn't be trusted to keep the knowledge of Emily's status a secret.  Where's the proof that says it was necessary to keep it from the team, in order to assure Emily's safety?  It seems to me that JJ lost Reid's trust because she'd first demonstrated her lack of trust in him.  Even if it came as an order from above, it infiltrated their relationship, and only JJ had knowledge, and thereby control, of that.

Of all of them, I think Emily is the only innocent.  She was severely injured at the time the plan was hatched, and had no part in making it.  For all we know, she might have been in the dark about whether her other teammates were aware of her status, until the very end.  It was nice that she reached out to Reid, but I think she was the least responsible for doing so.

And then there was that infernal pasta party....

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post

Both Reid and JJ were annoying in 7x02. 

I get why Reid (and Morgan) were upset. Reid was making sarcastic little comments while paired up with JJ. Even though he had a right to be upset, he should have put it aside while working the case.

Then JJ also got fed up and starting taking digs at Reid while in the field.

Then we got the argument between Reid and JJ at the police station, which JJ brought up. That was not the place for them to air out their frustrations. Reid tried to avoid JJ but JJ kept going and started this argument.

Both were in the wrong in this episode. Yes, Reid had a right to be upset, but the snarky comments should have been put aside while he was working a case. And while I get JJ getting frustrated at getting the cold shoulder and snarky remarks from Reid, she didn't need to add her own snarkiness, and she definitely didn't need to bring up the issue at the local police station where a bunch of law enforcement officers could hear two FBI agents arguing. Them getting overheard would not only make them look bad, but would very likely make Hotch and the BAU look bad as well. On top of arguing, JJ basically called out Reid's profiling skills and then Reid threw the Dilaudid issue in JJ's face. Both were just very unprofessional in this episode. 

 

jmo, I agree with your reasoning of Reid being upset and JJ lying to him. And you also bring up a good point about the team feeling upset because it was like they couldn't be trusted. Like I said, Reid and the others had every right to be upset, but there's a time and a place to express and show that emotion.  We know Morgan was upset but I think he was a bit better at not making a very big scene in front of others. I know he and Hotch kind of got into it in episode 9 of that season, but I think they were more isolated than Reid and JJ were (I could be wrong though). Now, with that being said, Morgan has also let his anger get the best of him at inappropriate times, like when he got mad at Hotch and Kate in the season 3 finale

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post

I agree with you on their behavior in the episode, jls. They were both written as petulant, which seemed out of character for each. I would have welcomed a serious conversation, and one that involved Hotch as well. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

Yeah, Hotch definitely should have been more stern with both of them. But I think season 7 was when a lot of new writers came in and they lost the feel of a lot of the characters. Had JJ and Reid been going at it in season 2 or something, I think we would have gotten Hotch being more stern with them as opposed to "if you want to be mad at someone, be mad at me"

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

On 05/01/2019 at 7:18 PM, mythoughtis said:

 I never saw Hotch perform any parenting while Haley was alive. Never once did he call to see how Jack fared while he was gone or ever seem to remember Jack existed once he left the house.  

Thats not true at all. Theres a multitude of little scenes wherein he makes a call, talks with a teammate and indeed some home scenes.  The problem with the latter is that he usually got called away from home, many times while 'doing the parenting stuff'. 

Hotch  never  showed any personality beyond a stone face or a glare. His girlfriend Beth was totally wrong for him.  

Totally disagree on this.  Completely aside from Beth, Hotch showed all sorts of personality. The difference is that it was very subtle, which in a way made it all the more powerful.  Again, theres a multitude of examples of this but to throw out some very simple ones - reminising with Haley about the pirate hat, 'physics magic' with Reid, 'gas' with JJ's new baby, even the little fist bump with Reid on the jet.  Theres lots there. 

 

Edited by Lalaland
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
On 06/01/2019 at 8:13 PM, JMO said:

 

 I see it so much differently from you, SSAP. 

 

- Good JMO ! Life (and this board) would be so boring if we all saw things the same way all the time.

 

 

 

JJ didn't lie to Reid one time.  In order to keep the information from him, JJ had to lie to Reid every single day, for seven months. 

 

- Fair enough, I'll grant you that she lied many times. But since for me the gravity of the matter for which she lied more than made up for the lie itself, I still see it as ONE lie.  

 

 

 

While I can't quite see him crying on her shoulder weekly, I can accept that he sought out the comfort of his best friend, to help assuage what he thought was their mutual grief.  To find out that she'd not been grieving Emily at all (but had, one can hope, been grieving the anticipated loss of her best friendship), yet had allowed him to suffer it, was the true betrayal, not the keeping secret of a single ( albeit monumental) fact. 

 

- Yes, and somehow I very much doubt it was a day at the park for JJ. I can't even pretend to know her that well (I would think her BFF Reid however knows her well enough to not imagine her having fun while watching him in pain), but unless I am to believe she's the world's ultimate cold-hearted *bish* , which I don't think I do despite her very cold exterior, I'm fairly sure it must've been torture for her too. A different kind of torture than Reid's, but a torture nonetheless.

 

 

 

The second slap in the face, and it looked to me as though Morgan felt it too, was the implication that those team members couldn't be trusted to keep the knowledge of Emily's status a secret.  It seems to me that JJ lost Reid's trust because she'd first demonstrated her lack of trust in him.  Even if it came as an order from above, it infiltrated their relationship, and only JJ had knowledge, and thereby control, of that.

 

- Slap in the face, yes probably. But in a situation like that, it's not so much about wether or not those team members can be trusted as it is about acting in the best interest of the targeted person. And the less people are in on the secret, the greater the chance is for that person to stay alive. Just like in the Witness Protection Program. I'm sure Hotch and JJ believed all 4 of them could be trusted (although personally I'm not too sure about Miss Penelope-I Can't Keep A Secret To Save My Own Life-Garcia, but that's for another debate). But he also knew that no one's perfect and anything can slip out accidently. He just couldn't take that risk.

 

 

 

Where's the proof that says it was necessary to keep it from the team, in order to assure Emily's safety?

 

- Well unless Reid needed to see Emily die a second time and for good, I'd say the simple fact that she was beaten and stabbed to "death" by someone who wanted her dead and was still very much alive is about as much proof as he needed to know that if her mortal ennemi had had even the slightest hint that she was indeed alive, he would've done anything to get the truth out of the people who were closest to her and more likely to know her wherabouts. So not only was Hotch protecting Emily, he was also protecting her teammates by extension. And even if Doyle didn't resort to violence to make them talk, I can imagine all kinds of other tricky ways he could've used to get to the same result.    Nah, Hotch did the right thing, and so did JJ.

 

 

 

Of all of them, I think Emily is the only innocent.  She was severely injured at the time the plan was hatched, and had no part in making it.  

 

- Well if Emily was innocent, then so was JJ. They may have hatched the plan while she was still unconscious, but when she woke up and  they told her what they did, she could've stopped it at any moment. Does she not have a will of her own ? And a mouth ? She could've said : "No, I can't do that to them. I can't let them grieve for me like that for no reason. They have to know I'm alive." But she didn't. So why are JJ and Hotch (mostly JJ, because the fandom -not you, obviously- has decided to put the blame almost entirely on her shoulders) more guilty than her ?                                     Now it's very important to notice that I said Emily "could have" stopped itnot "should have". It must have been a real tough choice for her : protecting her life or risk it by letting her friends know  she was alive. Hmmmm very tough. And just like I'm sure JJ and Hotch didn't have fun making it, I'm quite certain it was hell for E too. But if she could have stopped it and didn't, yet I don't blame her at all for that, I sure as heck ain't gonna blame JJ.

 

 

 

For all we know, she might have been in the dark about whether her other teammates were aware of her status, until the very end. 

 

- Maybe. But I doubt so. Wouldn't she have contacted them even once during those 7 months ?

 

 

 

It was nice that she reached out to Reid, but I think she was the least responsible for doing so.

 

- Why did Reid grieve for 7 months ? Because he thought "Emily" had died.  And why was he so angry and hurt when she turned out to be alive ? Because he realized that Hotch and JJ only faked "Emily's" death. And why did they do that ? To protect "Emily". So seeing as the whole unfortunate experience revolved around Emily, and because of that ONLY, even though she did nothing wrong than to deal with a horrible situation the best way she could, I think she did have a responsibility to reach out to Reid.

 

 

 

And then there was that infernal pasta party....

 

- Eh, if the alternative would have been to endure a whole arc, or even just a second episode, dedicated to "The Many Ways Spencer Reid Was Affected By Emily Prentiss' Death And Return" when the actual person who was the most affected by those events, meaning Emily herself, was barely granted 2 minutes in one episode to express a reaction to her own trauma, then by all means, I'd gladly take more of that infernal pasta party for 10,000 please !

 

 

FlickeringJampackedChafer-small.gif

Edited by SSA Emily Prentiss
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
On 1/6/2019 at 7:07 PM, jls1792 said:

Both Reid and JJ were annoying in 7x02. 

I get why Reid (and Morgan) were upset. Reid was making sarcastic little comments while paired up with JJ. Even though he had a right to be upset, he should have put it aside while working the case.

Then JJ also got fed up and starting taking digs at Reid while in the field.

Then we got the argument between Reid and JJ at the police station, which JJ brought up. That was not the place for them to air out their frustrations. Reid tried to avoid JJ but JJ kept going and started this argument.

Both were in the wrong in this episode. Yes, Reid had a right to be upset, but the snarky comments should have been put aside while he was working a case. And while I get JJ getting frustrated at getting the cold shoulder and snarky remarks from Reid, she didn't need to add her own snarkiness, and she definitely didn't need to bring up the issue at the local police station where a bunch of law enforcement officers could hear two FBI agents arguing. Them getting overheard would not only make them look bad, but would very likely make Hotch and the BAU look bad as well. On top of arguing, JJ basically called out Reid's profiling skills and then Reid threw the Dilaudid issue in JJ's face. Both were just very unprofessional in this episode. 

 

jmo, I agree with your reasoning of Reid being upset and JJ lying to him. And you also bring up a good point about the team feeling upset because it was like they couldn't be trusted. Like I said, Reid and the others had every right to be upset, but there's a time and a place to express and show that emotion.  We know Morgan was upset but I think he was a bit better at not making a very big scene in front of others. I know he and Hotch kind of got into it in episode 9 of that season, but I think they were more isolated than Reid and JJ were (I could be wrong though). Now, with that being said, Morgan has also let his anger get the best of him at inappropriate times, like when he got mad at Hotch and Kate in the season 3 finale

Well, JJ is a snob. I'm hoping the last season ends with her death. 

Share this post


Link to post
8 hours ago, Hotchgirl18 said:

Well, JJ is a snob. I'm hoping the last season ends with her death. 

I can see the show ending with JJ's death. It's a loss the team wouldn't ever be able to come to terms with.  I hate the term "life goes on". For those in deep pain and despair life doesn't go on. There's no way the team could "go on" and there's no way the show could continue after JJ's death.

I'd love to see an episode where the team is grieving for her, they help her husband raise her children, they tell them about what their mom was like and honoring her memory and then just end the whole shit.

Edited by Blackbird999999lol
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
13 hours ago, Blackbird999999lol said:

There's no way in hell Erica MESSer would ever kill off her precious Kung-Fu Ninja Barbie. But I can very much  see her making the show's last episode all about Saint Mary Sue aka Super JJ Of Quantico. Nope, I wouldn't put it past her at all. After all, this character has already been dominating the screentime for years, so what's one more episode, right ?           

In case I'm right, I do hope I get a heads up first though. Just so I don't make the mistake of watching it like I watched "200" when I learned that Paget was guest starring.

 

Edited by SSA Emily Prentiss
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
On 7/1/2019 at 12:28 AM, SSA Emily Prentiss said:

And here comes my U.O. #5 !

You know, I wanted to wait a while for this one. I wanted to think it through again before I typed it, not because I'm not sure of it (quite the opposite !) but because I want to get it 100% right, without missing one single thought. But since you unexpectedly brought it up, I'm just gonna jump on the opportunity. Let's talk about it !

In 07x02, I think Spencer acted like a real BRAT towards JJ, and I really didn't care for his little tantrum act. He may be the youngest member of the team but he's not a kid. And if my memory's correct, in season 7 he actually turned 30. Which means he was more than old enough to understand a few things. So what part of "We had  to lie to protect Emily" did he not get exactly ? He acted as if JJ meant to hurt him personally when in reality, it wasn't about him at all, just like Hotch had to tell Morgan. It was a matter of life and death, and Hotch made an important decision in order to keep one of their own alive. Of course they had the right to feel hurt, they grieved for 7 long months. But why take it out on JJ ? What was she supposed to do ? Break Hotch's trust and put their mutual friend in danger just to make poor fragile Reid feel better ? Didn't he understand that the more people are in on such secret, the less safe the victim/potential victim is ? 

So I'm sorry no, I guess I really don't see why and how that lie affected Reid's ability to trust JJ. Despite the negative things I say about her sometimes, we all know JJ loves Reid, and It's not like she goes around lying to him every chance she gets. She did it one time folks, ONE time, and for a very serious matter at that. I mean what could be more serious than the life and death of someone you care about ? The fact that she was able to keep that secret for so long to make sure their friend and partner stayed alive, that to me says she's more than trustworthy. And I'm not even a fan of hers by a long shot, but if I was a member of that team, I'd much, much rather put my life in her hands than in Reid's.

They all have this ridiculous tendency to cuddle Reid way too much in that team, so I was soooo glad no one took the time to hold his hand for once. Except for Hotch and JJ, they all mourned the loss of E and were shocked to see her alive, not just Reid. But after the initial anger reaction, Morgan realized that the most important thing was that E was there and he moved on. Even Garcia was actually (oh surprise !) very mature about the whole thing. She was shocked too but she understood the reason behind the lie and was grateful to have her friend and teammate back.

Reid on the other hand, acted as if knowing the truth was far more important than Emily's life. Which, quite frankly, wasn't a good look on him in my eyes. He should've been ashamed of his reaction afterwards, not JJ. As far as I'm concerned, JJ did nothing wrong. I actually cheered on her that day because she gave as good as she got and she didn't back down. No, scratch that, she was still far too gentle. If it was me in her place, best friend or not, Oy...

Because the whole thing was set in motion for her, Emily's the one who owed him a sincere apology. Which she offered. After that, they should've just let bratty Reid alone in his corner to pout for days, even weeks, months if he wanted to. Until he got tired of his own attitude and decided to get over himself and man up. Or not.

 

I love this subject, this one and "marriage in the BAU" are great and endless discussions.

Sooo "But why take it out on JJ ?"

Weeell, I do have an answer and it's this chat:


"JJ: You know what I think it is? You're mad that Hotch and I controlled our micro expressions at the hospital, and you weren't able to detect our deception.

 Reid: You think this is about my profiling skills? Jennifer, listen, the only reason you were able to manage my perceptions is because I trusted you."

Read more: https://www.springfieldspringfield.co.uk/view_episode_scripts.php?tv-show=criminal-minds&episode=s07e02

 

Anyway, Reid behaves petulantly before and after he calls her off, for all the reasons you have already pointed out.

Obviously, Hotch was the unit chief at the time and sometimes he had to made strategic choices, it was his duty and responsibility, period. And every time a team member had a problem with that it sounded ridiculous and childish. I won't deny Hotch failed in pointing those attitudes several times in Bernero's age, but their immaturity has been disgusting in late seasons. I consider this (as many other issues) a writing problem or a "Messer" problem... 

 

And sorry for any grammar mistake.

Edited by smoker
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

Reid will always be my favorite character from CM, and was the only character with whom I could really identify. I agree the writing did him no favors after the first few seasons, but I don't think the writing did anyone any favors after the first few seasons. I didn't care for the seasons where JJ went from media liaison to super agent essentially overnight, but I don't blame A J Cook for taking the opportunity that was handed her to have a more prominent role. I was happy when Shemar Moore left the show and wish he'd done it sooner; the scenes between Derek and Garcia were painfully unprofessional on too many occasions and gave me vicarious embarrassment. 

I'm glad the show will get a final season; 10 episodes seems about right to have one major arc and wrap up everything. I don't want any team members killed off, and am not expecting them to pull some lame scenario where the team is disbanded at the end of the season. I'd rather get the feeling that life is going on as expected; maybe a couple of profilers move to other teams, maybe Rossi retires, and maybe a few stay where they are. I just don't think it's necessary to do some big dramatic finale. 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
7 hours ago, BookWoman56 said:

I was happy when Shemar Moore left the show and wish he'd done it sooner; the scenes between Derek and Garcia were painfully unprofessional on too many occasions and gave me vicarious embarrassment. 

 

7 hours ago, BookWoman56 said:

 

I hear you. I stopped watching after season 7 and only came back in season 12. So it would've been even harder for me to stomach that horrendous Morgan/Garcia pair again after I had a 4 year break from them.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
11 hours ago, smoker said:

I am glad to know he has grown up, it's about time.

Gotta admit, when the prison arc ended, it's when I started paying some attention to that "boy". Before that, he was just "the kid who is too cuddled by his teammates" to me.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
On 27/12/2018 at 12:36 PM, SSA Emily Prentiss said:

And my list of U.Os continues. I know this one may cause people to wonder if I'm not insane, but whatever, it's been a while since I've wanted to get this off my chest. Here it is :

3. I know many people think that JJ is the epitome of empathy, but I disagree wholeheartedly. I don't think JJ and the word "empathy" should ever be placed in the same sentence. Well except if it's to say something like : "JJ can't express sincere empathy to save her life." That's about it.

I have very rarely, if ever, bought into her so called empathy towards the victims or even her own co-workers. I bought it in spades with Elle, with Reid, with Emily, with stoic Hotch. I even bought it with arrogant, full of himself, narcissist playa Morgan and over the top, self-centered, juvenile drama queen Garcia (two characters I barely tolerate). But JJ ? Nah. Never. And the more they shove her perfect sanctity to my face, the more I keep thinking : "Fake! Fake! Fake!"                Yes I'm sorry but to me, Jennifer Saint Mary Sue Super Ninja Wannabe Kung Fu Barbie Jareau always seems to be sporting a mask. Which makes her appear cold most of the times. Sometimes when I look at her, I can't help but wonder : "If I pricked her really hard with a needle, would there be any blood ?"

If the actress really wants her portrayal of empathy to be believable, she should really buy some clues from her acting partners. Espacially from PB and MGG.

 

Also, she's written like Perfect Snowhite, but there's something very irritating about this character that screams "Look at how superior I am. I don't even belong on the same planet as the rest of you mortals. I'm only tolerating your presence because... well, you know... I am that good of a person."  Ughh !

 

 

 

Emily-concerned-crop.png

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

* Garcia has no business being part of a crime fighting team. I also don't understand what is so special about what she does either. Most of the time it seems all she is doing is narrowing down addresses and where someone spent some money. Hardly a genius crime fighter. 

* The ep where Garcia was all upset about the criminal getting the death sentence was ridiculous. Given all the crimes she has seen I would have hoped she learned something. I guess not. 

* Garcia crushing on Derek were always very gross and unprofessional. The team has to wait a few minutes for Garcia and Derek to talk shit before getting on with finding the killer. 

* For a show called Criminal Minds these people often don't come across as masterminds. There are a couple of exceptions but for the most part they are all pretty ordinary and probably would do better in Police uniform walking a beat. 

* The show has gone on for way too long. 

* JJ professing her love for Reid was a weak angle even for the situation and the two are mismatched anyway. I don't think Reid can handle games like that one. He would find it hard enough to deal with a woman liking him who was straight up honest to his face rather than what JJ did and then denying it later. 

Share this post


Link to post
21 hours ago, Morlock said:

* Garcia has no business being part of a crime fighting team. I also don't understand what is so special about what she does either. Most of the time it seems all she is doing is narrowing down addresses and where someone spent some money. Hardly a genius crime fighter. 

Eh, she's actually kinda the opposite in that she finds out stuff that really should not be possible. I highly doubt there is some master data repository that contains left-handed dog owners who had some kind of menial job 20 years ago, and yet Garcia will just type those things into a quasi-DB-query and BAM! Names spit out. But hey, it's TV; there are lots of shortcuts like that to keep things moving (e.g. all of CSI :)).

I have a weakness for the techie support staff who pull together info, but I prefer grownups like Mouse from Chicago PD. I don't get the fetishistic child-like girls thing with Abby from NCIS and Garcia - somehow I think the rationale goes "We need something light and pure and good to offset the demons of their job! Let's give the whole team a Manic Pixie Dream Girl!"

Just... no.

21 hours ago, Morlock said:

* The ep where Garcia was all upset about the criminal getting the death sentence was ridiculous. Given all the crimes she has seen I would have hoped she learned something. I guess not. 

Ugh! It's the MPDG thing - Garcia just gets more and more childish when faced with "bad stuff" to the point where she practically devolves into baby talk. Like that time when she had to "dig up dirt" on an entire small town and she practically had a breakdown over finding out people's dirty laundry. Not the serial killer stuff, just that the mayor had an affair or Bob the accountant had been embezzling for years! Ooooh! She can't stand it! It's soooo horrible! Bitch, those aren't your friends and family who betrayed you personally; they're total strangers with mildly assholish histories. Relax.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

43 minutes ago, CoyoteBlue said:

Eh, she's actually kinda the opposite in that she finds out stuff that really should not be possible. I highly doubt there is some master data repository that contains left-handed dog owners who had some kind of menial job 20 years ago, and yet Garcia will just type those things into a quasi-DB-query and BAM! Names spit out. But hey, it's TV; there are lots of shortcuts like that to keep things moving (e.g. all of CSI :)).

I have a weakness for the techie support staff who pull together info, but I prefer grownups like Mouse from Chicago PD. I don't get the fetishistic child-like girls thing with Abby from NCIS and Garcia - somehow I think the rationale goes "We need something light and pure and good to offset the demons of their job! Let's give the whole team a Manic Pixie Dream Girl!"

Just... no.

Ugh! It's the MPDG thing - Garcia just gets more and more childish when faced with "bad stuff" to the point where she practically devolves into baby talk. Like that time when she had to "dig up dirt" on an entire small town and she practically had a breakdown over finding out people's dirty laundry. Not the serial killer stuff, just that the mayor had an affair or Bob the accountant had been embezzling for years! Ooooh! She can't stand it! It's soooo horrible! Bitch, those aren't your friends and family who betrayed you personally; they're total strangers with mildly assholish histories. Relax.

You said it better than me but that is what I was getting at. It's like she googles left handed dog owner clubs in such and such area. And from there she will just begin narrowing down possible suspects with the help of the crime team. 

Yep that too! She has been doing this for a while now and she still responds to it all as a rookie. Does she get no support or training to deal with this stuff or did they really just throw her down in the chair and leave her there?

Share this post


Link to post

Even though I know what Abby looks like from the cast pics I've seen, I've never actually watched NCIS, so I can't tell what that character acts like. However, after watching Garcia for 10 whole seasons, I simply find it hard to believe that there is any other character on any other show who could be as ridiculous as her. Nope, that just can't exist. And I'm not even talking about her non sensical outfits, I could deal with that (though the cat ears at work are a really tough pill to swallow for me). My first favorite female TV character was Mary Frances "Frankie" Frame on soap opera Another World, and she wore the most hideous outfits ever seen on a Daytime heroïne, and she was an excentric character too, yet I loved her to pieces. 

It's Garcia's general immaturity and juvenile attitude and reactions that I find more mind boggling and out of place for a show like CM. How she got admitted in the FBI in the first place is a mystery to me. And what's even more... intriguing (for lack of a better word) is that she hasn't grown one bit after 14 years. She was a 20+ year old immature brat when she started at the BAU, and now, after 14 years of witnessing human beings' misery and suffering, she's a 40+ year old immature brat. Can you believe it ?

I'd lie if I said I've never liked Garcia at any moment of the show. There are moments when I find her very endearing. But overall, Penelope Garcia is the epitome of ridiculousness.

As for Morgan & Garcia, they were the epitome of gross.

  • Like 1
  • Laugh 1

Share this post


Link to post
On 3/6/2019 at 10:54 AM, SSA Emily Prentiss said:

Even though I know what Abby looks like from the cast pics I've seen, I've never actually watched NCIS, so I can't tell what that character acts like. However, after watching Garcia for 10 whole seasons, I simply find it hard to believe that there is any other character on any other show who could be as ridiculous as her. Nope, that just can't exist. And I'm not even talking about her non sensical outfits, I could deal with that (though the cat ears at work are a really tough pill to swallow for me). My first favorite female TV character was Mary Frances "Frankie" Frame on soap opera Another World, and she wore the most hideous outfits ever seen on a Daytime heroïne, and she was an excentric character too, yet I loved her to pieces. 

It's Garcia's general immaturity and juvenile attitude and reactions that I find more mind boggling and out of place for a show like CM. How she got admitted in the FBI in the first place is a mystery to me. And what's even more... intriguing (for lack of a better word) is that she hasn't grown one bit after 14 years. She was a 20+ year old immature brat when she started at the BAU, and now, after 14 years of witnessing human beings' misery and suffering, she's a 40+ year old immature brat. Can you believe it ?

I'd lie if I said I've never liked Garcia at any moment of the show. There are moments when I find her very endearing. But overall, Penelope Garcia is the epitome of ridiculousness.

As for Morgan & Garcia, they were the epitome of gross.

Abby was realistic in comparison to Garcia and quite professional. She had her quirks but wasn't annoying and didn't flirt at all let alone do it in a 8 year old girl kind of way. 

I know I will cop some flak for this but the things Garcia wears are not flattering for her overweight body. She is going for some kind of babydoll/vintage pin up look and it does not work on her. The shoes she wears are ridiculous as well. 

I think she was admitted to the FBI because she was a hacker who got busted! She hasn't grown up which is something that effected the Abby character as well. They both are like little girls in their own way. Although Abby wasn't a brat. 

Where Garcia really lost me was the ep where she got all upset about a killer getting the death sentence. She went to visit him and from memory I think he rejected her visit. Like you say she has witnessed so much suffering and she cares about the killer? She also hasn't developed any resilience to all the crimes she has dealt with. She is still like a rookie the way she responds. 

Her and Morgan were gross too, I agree. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

At this point I have several UOs about the show. 

First, I don't mind at all that it's ending. It's more than run its course, and these actors need to move on to other roles. I haven't watched enough of the last few seasons to have a good sense of how the two newest profilers fit into the team, but in the episodes I have seen, they all seemed to work together reasonably well. It's just that the writers are scraping the bottom of the barrel and have been for several seasons. The whole "Reid gets set up and goes to prison" storyline was ludicrous from the start. 

I don't mind that Morgan and Hotch have both left. I never particularly liked Morgan and hated the interaction between him and Garcia, so good riddance and wish it had happened several seasons before it did. As for Hotch, for a long time prior to his departure, it felt as if he was there only to tell the team to get ready to get on plane. I don't care that TG was fired or if he was goaded into a physically violent response to someone else. At any workplace, kicking another employee is grounds for termination, no matter what the provocation. I know there have probably been other actors on other shows who did much worse and kept their jobs, but that's generally when a show is centered around one lead role and the show would crash and burn without that lead role. With CM, it was clear as soon as Gideon left that there really was no one person in the cast who couldn't be replaced if necessary. 

With Garcia, to me it's not whether she's wearing vintage or baby-doll clothing, or whether she's overweight. My objection is to the fact that so often her clothes look unprofessional and very casual, with a lot of cleavage, in a setting that is known for insisting on/strongly encouraging very conservative attire. I could more easily believe in a 15-year-old IT genius wearing jeans and a hoodie than I can believe that the FBI would be okay with someone showing up to work looking like she's headed for a nightclub. If she wants to dress that way out of the office, fine; nothing inherently wrong with her dressing the way she wants to. However, my biggest issue with her is twofold: She's been with the BAU for umpteen years now and still freaks out over crime scene photos, which, seriously, if she can't handle those images, she needs to find another job. Secondly, why is it necessary to spend so much time telling everyone how fucking brilliant she was to find this critical piece of data, instead of just giving the team the data? The audience has already heard the team request that she track down all males in the target city who are age 30-40, left-handed, drive a truck, hate their mothers, and used to work part-time at a local store that has since gone out of business. So she doesn't need to spell out all the steps she took to find this data, especially when anybody with half a brain knows there's no way that info would be digitized anyway. And yet, every single time, it's like she's essentially screaming, "Wow, look what I did with my magic computer. You guys would be so fucked without me!" all while the team needs the damn info asap so they can rescue the next victim before the unsub decides to do the kill. 

Finally, my lack of interest in most of the last few seasons has little to do with the new cast members and a lot to do with the team having just gotten too big. The writers couldn't really give any one team member adequate screen time, unless it happened to be one of those "character ABC-centric" episodes, which tended to reduce the rest of the cast to more or less just stage props. But that wasn't a new problem; even back in seasons 4-6 or so, there'd be episodes where one character, such as Reid, would be given a couple of lines in the beginning of the episode and then disappear. So I just don't think the writers were really adept at dealing with an ensemble cast, and perhaps would have done better with a show where there were only one or two major leads and everybody else was just a minor player. 

  • Like 4
  • Laugh 1

Share this post


Link to post
20 hours ago, BookWoman56 said:

I don't mind that Morgan and Hotch have both left. I never particularly liked Morgan and hated the interaction between him and Garcia, so good riddance and wish it had happened several seasons before it did. As for Hotch, for a long time prior to his departure, it felt as if he was there only to tell the team to get ready to get on plane. I don't care that TG was fired or if he was goaded into a physically violent response to someone else. At any workplace, kicking another employee is grounds for termination, no matter what the provocation. I know there have probably been other actors on other shows who did much worse and kept their jobs, but that's generally when a show is centered around one lead role and the show would crash and burn without that lead role. With CM, it was clear as soon as Gideon left that there really was no one person in the cast who couldn't be replaced if necessary. 

One could argue that the show which was already in poor health prior to Morgan and Hotch leaving, has had its impending death hastened somewhat by their absense. The rapid and significant decline in viewship over the last few seasons and the unwaning popularity of both characters (and actors), including the calls for the return of both (however unlikely that might be) for the final season, would seem to suggest they were pretty important to the series, irreplaceable even?. I have said this many many times.  The writing was so bad in the last few seasons of Hotch and Morgan, that had it not been for the solid team of actors pulling it through, though visibly struggling at times, then I believe this show would have folded 4 seasons back.

I agree with your comment about the last few seasons had Hotch nothing more than window dressing.  Pretty shameful treatment of a pinacle character and a subject of much frustration, I can tell you.  It certainly seemed like the writers at that time just did not know what to do with the character, not so much the rest either.  Shameful.

As for the Morgan interactions with Garcia, again, thats on the writers. 

Its much easier to write fluffy garbage like that or write a scene that has nothing more than blowing up things, than to actually come up with proper dialogue.  The writers for the last 4/5 seasons have been way below par and how any of them got a gig on a show like CM, is questionable to say the least. 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...

Customize font-size