Criminal Minds Unpopular Opinions

[normasm]

I don't know specifically about schizophrenics, especially the type that Diana is, but, it seems to me that even on her good days, the overwhelming feeling for her would not be "OK, I'm ready to be Mom", but, "oh, god, what am I doing to my baby, I don't deserve to live." One doesn't just go from hearing self-destructive voices to being able to cater to a ten, eleven, twelve-year-old. I'm sure Diana tried her best to have her shit together, but, it was most likely impossible for the most part. The character of Spencer was constructed to be smart enough to intuit at a young age that she was trying her very best, and she was trying because she loved him.

[JMO]

Hmmm...we certainly  never got the impression anyone was there to take care of Spencer. I am sure Diana had her good days and at those times, she assumed the typical roles of parenthood. But outside of that, I think he was on his own a lot. I can see William paying all the bills as a way to alleviate his guilt about abandoning his child, but as for the day to day stuff? I doubt Diana was completely gone all the time. But Spencer was probably the epitome of a latchkey kid. His teachers probably took an interest in his academic life, but when Diana was not doing well, I get the impression Spencer was pretty much on his own. Granted he would have only been in that situation for two to three years until he graduated from high school and went off to university.

 

I'm also curious who took care of Diana when Spencer went away to Cal Tech (as he likely did when he was 13). And of course what sort of arrangement was made for him at Cal Tech? I can easily see him being there on a full ride merit scholarship, but there is the little issue of what to do with a young teenager living at school out of state. You would think there was some sort of adult care relationship set up for him.

I doubt anyone at the show has thought this through at all, and I doubt they have any inclination to do so in the future. But, like you, FA, I've always been curious.

So, I wonder if maybe Reid went away to school before he turned 18, and then came home to find his mother in an incompetent state. She would have been able to sign permissions for him until he was of age. Where I work,, we've had mothers who were conserved (someone else in charge of decisions and/or finances) for themselves, but were still the ones making major medical decisions for their children. They are different legal processes.

The other scenario I can see for Reid would be that he got his undergraduate degrees locally, and his doctorates at CalTech. That would have allowed him to live at home until he was 18.

[JMO]

I don't know specifically about schizophrenics, especially the type that Diana is, but, it seems to me that even on her good days, the overwhelming feeling for her would not be "OK, I'm ready to be Mom", but, "oh, god, what am I doing to my baby, I don't deserve to live." One doesn't just go from hearing self-destructive voices to being able to cater to a ten, eleven, twelve-year-old. I'm sure Diana tried her best to have her shit together, but, it was most likely impossible for the most part. The character of Spencer was constructed to be smart enough to intuit at a young age that she was trying her very best, and she was trying because she loved him.

I totally agree. And that last point, about Reid's understanding about her, is so crucial to who he is. He is probably the most empathetic character on the show, despite how he is sometimes written----the legacy of the love between the boy and his ill mother.

I've had a few schizophrenic mothers over the years. The most functional were able to raise their children, but only with the help of extended family. None of them were able to live independently.

Just recently saw a teen with her first overt break. Literally from one day to the next, her entire appearance changed, along with her demeanor. Such an evil disease, devastating the whole family. I'm praying she'll be one of the lucky ones who responds extraordinarily well to therapy.

[Saje]

JMO, I think you should write Spencer's history. If anyone can write it honestly and beautifully, you can. 

[MCatry]

Qwerty:

I just want to ad another piece for your puzzle.

In the episode 'In name and blood' (season 3, episode 2) Reid states

"Sometimes when a parent is unstable , especially if the other's one is out of the picture, you'll do anything to be the perfect child. They're never late for school. Even with the abductions, the disposal of the bodies, it is always timed perfectly so the kid will be on time for school. I don't think the killer would care. I think the kid would.'

Reid's first response to anyone inquiring about how he is doing is the classic 'I'm ok', and his general attitude is 'I don't need help' since that would make him 'weak', which is another wound from his childhood (from his flashbacks when high on dilaudid). Therefore, you've got someone who though being strong meant being able to deal with issues on his own. Then, you have him dealing with addiction alone, and the whole Maeve affair. I don't think he really asked for help. He sometimes fakes it, to let people around him think they are helping. He doesn't let anyone in more than a few millimiters.

And I don't miss JJ. In fact, I am dreading her return.

I think it is pretty obvious that five members in a team (and hopefully diminishing Garcia's time) gives the right exposure to all the characters. The show producers have been trying to fit seven characters in twenty minutes or less (the rest is, as we all know, the unsub-show) and that always resulted in at least two characters being neglected, missing in action, part of the decorations or something along those lines,

[rapgodminho]

On Ethan & Drinking. Spencer was 22 when he joined the BAU/FBI. Legal age to drink in America is 21 IIRC so it's confusing on how Ethan was already an alcoholic. It's possible he was a little bit older than Spencer though since we know Spencer was the only 12 year old in his graduating class. And that is assuming they even went to school together but I don't think that's a stretch to assume. It's possible they were in different classes though. It's likely that Ethan was drinking while underage which makes me wonder who was buying him alcohol and it makes me wonder if that did happen, did Spencer also participate in the underage drinking? And what else were they getting up to? It's all speculation and not really relevant but I just like to think about these things. I'm far too obsessed. 

 

I remember reading a really interesting review/recap/liveblog of Jones from season 2 where the author speculated that Ethan was referring to alcohol and not Dilaudud when he was talking to Reid, and it actually made a lot of sense. I can't remember the blog for the life of me but it was great. Anyone remember it?

 

(also my unpopular opinion is that I ship reid and ethan #sorrynotsorry)

[rapgodminho]

It's been so long since I read it (like five years) that I can't really remember what they were talking about specifically, but I'm 90% sure they were referring to subtext rather than references to actual dialogue? Specifically the scene with Ethan and Reid drinking in the bar + Ethan pointing to Reid's glass + Reid's lack of a glass when talking to Gideon at the end. And other stuff that made sense. The entire blog was really interesting, I'm going to have to find it as to not sound insane lol.

 

Additionally, we do know he can drink alcohol in some capacity, since we see him drinking with Elle in Aftermath and he barely flinches. After Hankel? Not so sure.

 

Edit: Good lord I just noticed how badly I screwed up the spelling of dilaudid. Whatever, I'm leaving it~

Edited October 30, 2015 by rapgodminho

[Saje]

He also has a glass of red wine at Rossi's house. Why are we talking about this? Sorry, not following.

[amensisterfriend]

I actually liked Seaver. Heaven help me. :) 

 

And I honestly don't think JJ 2.0 is any worse of a character than JJ 1.0. JJ 20 gets more screentime and has a less unique role within the team (not that the show ever bothered to give us much of a glimpse into the media liaison function anyway), but that's about it. 

Edited November 3, 2015 by amensisterfriend

[MCatry]

I actually liked Seaver. Heaven help me. :) 

 

And I honestly don't think JJ 2.0 is any worse of a character than JJ 1.0. JJ 20 gets more screentime and has a less unique role within the team (not that the show ever bothered to give us much of a glimpse into the media liaison function anyway), but that's about it.

I didn't dislike Seaver neither, but I had a problem with her being there in the first place, after years of canon telling us that you have to be a very specialised agent to even apply for the position, and that there were many agents trying to get that job. To add fuel to the fire they made two mistakes: the bad-taste joke 'sorry I asked', delivered to Reid, and trying to make her liked by using Prentiss to cheer on her side. But the actress was ok. Too bad she was fired in such a bad way.

And about JJ, as the media liason I think she had a well-defined work: we saw her dealing with police department chiefs, and sorting out files to deliver to the different profilers (we haven't seen them doing written assessments in years, so I guess that once JJ left that position, they don't write profiles for smaller cases anymore...). Since she read the cases, she decided which ones were minor (hence, delivered to individual profilers) and which ones were urgent. She obviously had to ask for Hotch's authorizations, but ultimately she decided which cases needed the whole team attention. That's why she was 'the' indicated to present the cases for the rest of the team. And once in a case, she was 'the oil' to deal with moody police agents.

Now, JJ 2.0 is a profiler. Apparently, now it only takes a test to get the position, and since she worked with a team of profilers, she knew all the answers. What about all the qualifications related to psychology, sociology and criminalistics? well, apparently a communications degree is fair enough, as long as you have previous experience hearing profilers talk about cases, and being well known by the boss.

She once said that her media liason job involved a lot of profiling. I disagree. One thing is to identify if one case is more urgent, creepier, bigger. Another one, is to analyse the behaviour of a criminal in order to stop him/her and catch him/her.

Still, lets say she is a profile now.

That lead as to a bigger problem: Garcia is now presenting the cases. She knows about the case before any other member of the team but Hotch, and sometimes, even Hotch. She prepares the presentation, talks endlessly, and then she solves the cases via miraculous 'hacker' abilities.

That fact alone is proof that the media liason was never needed at all. No one picks files to write written reports. No one deals with the press. No one extra is needed to deal with the local police. And Garcia prepares the presentations, since

A) doing presentations is a minor task for a profiler like JJ

B) JJ forgot how to do them.

Which other reason may justify that Garcia, of all the cast, has such a big role in the cases?

That leads to another obvious conclusion: the media liason position was not important at all, since they keep working as good as ever without it. Therefore, JJ 1.0 basically was hired just because, for years, until she moved on to be a profiler,

Strangely enough, I don't think that's the case. She had a key position, but the writers managed to erase it, mistakenly assuming that being a profiler was more flashy, and being a media liason was just close to being wallpaper.

So, I think JJ was well defined as an agent before. Now, she is just one more profiler in a room in which there are far too many already.

[Droogie]

I have a potentially very unpopular opinion:

I think the show would have been better if Mandy Patinkin had stayed. I think it would've been darker, more cerebral, more complex, stayed true. CBS was inclined, I understand, to bend over backward for him. He would've insisted on good writers, and he would've known canon. I also think it would've ended sooner and we would have been left wanting more. I am a fan of Joe Mantegna, but he is a "yes man," and he does not challenge status quo.

(I was watching The Talking Dead Sunday night, and listening to the guest stars talk about TWD. They said the writers weren't afraid to "go there," and they knew the characters and knew what the audience wanted. Season 1 CM writers were like that. It was so ridiculously good. If we weren't connoisseurs of the show, we might still happily bump along the bottom, but since we know from good, nothing less is acceptable.)

Edited November 4, 2015 by Droogie

[normasm]

So well said, Droogs

[amensisterfriend]

I have a potentially very unpopular opinion:

I think the show would have been better if Mandy Patinkin had stayed. I think it would've been darker, more cerebral, more complex, stayed true. CBS was inclined, I understand, to bend over backward for him. He would've insisted on good writers, and he would've known canon. I also think it would've ended sooner and we would have been left wanting more. I am a fan of Joe Mantegna, but he is a "yes man," and he does not challenge status quo.

 

Amen! And here's the thing: I like Rossi and agree that he'd be a lot more enjoyable to work with in real life, but I just don't think he's a fraction as interesting a character as Gideon. All those reasons people (very justifiably, I may add!) snark on Gideon--the propensity for melodrama, the blend of narcissistic arrogance and on-the-verge-of-a-breakdown* neuroses, the fact that he's too empathetic in some ways and insensitively oblivious in others, the way he obsesses too much about some things and seems to care too little for some other things that matter...all that made him a layered, compelling character, albeit sometimes an annoying one. He had potential as an individual to grow, regress, etc. and to add a far more interesting energy to the generally bland team dynamic. Plus, I really bought the cerebral Jason/MP as a renowned, too-brilliant-for-his-own-good profiler. By contrast, I kind of struggle to fully buy Rossi as a founding member of the BAU and acclaimed author. And this is coming from someone who's a big JM fan :)

 

And here's a very recently developed and extremely unpopular opinion: I've actually grown to enjoy Emily's super secret spy arc of S6. (*bows head in shame*) I mean, I'm fully cognizant of how ridiculous it is, but I've also grown to find it a heck of a lot more compelling and entertaining than most of the 'personal' storylines we get on this show, and I think it gave Paget a chance to give her best (or at least most interesting) performance of the series. Most importantly, of course, I really like "Lauren's" hair ;)   

 

Between that and my above admission that I enjoyed Seaver and thought she had potential---(though of course I totally agree that her reason for being part of the team was ridiculous---then again, it's not like most of these characters utilize whatever special niches, talents etc earned them a spot on the BAU in the first place; they're all just equally skilled at everything that happens to come up!)---I think I actually like S6. Not as much as S7, but maybe more than S5 and certainly more than S8 and S9. 

 

And now I may be too embarrassed to show my face here again :) 

 

 

*...they don't call them nervous breakdowns anymore! Yes, I've watched the early S1 episodes way, way too many times ;) 

Edited November 4, 2015 by amensisterfriend

[Droogie]

Amen! And here's the thing: I like Rossi and agree that he'd be a lot more enjoyable to work with in real life, but I just don't think he's a fraction as interesting a character as Gideon. All those reasons people (very justifiably, I may add!) snark on Gideon--the propensity for melodrama, the blend of narcissistic arrogance and on-the-verge-of-a-breakdown* neuroses, the fact that he's too empathetic in some ways and insensitively oblivious in others, the way he obsesses too much about some things and seems to care too little but some other things that matter...all that made him a layered, compelling character, albeit sometimes an annoying one. He had potential as an individual to grow, regress, etc. and to add a far more interesting energy to the generally bland team dynamic. Plus, I really bought the cerebral Jason/MP as a renowned, too-brilliant-for-his-own-good profiler. By contrast, I kind of struggle to fully buy Rossi as a founding member of the BAU and acclaimed author. And this is coming from someone who's a big JM fan :)

Hellz, yeah! The layering of the characters back then -- Reid is Jason's protege, Jason basically gets him killed, Reid chooses Hotch to receive the secret message when he is with Tobias. SO MUCH POTENTIAL. Potential for conflict, character development... My gosh! I think Reid would've bristled eventually under Gideon's tutelage. Gideon wouldn't want Reid to blossom on his own, may have tried to keep him down. I gather Reid was always supposed to be Gideon's "mini me," giving Gideon a "do over," so to speak. It would've been riveting. :::cries:::

[normasm]

Amen, I agree that Gideon was the soul of the show as conceived, and he would have continued to be. And everyone on the team was affected by him, and when he was gone, the show by definition had to change. The early writers/runners did the best they could with the hash MP left. 

 

Yes, Droogs, Reid would have chafed, I think, and it would have been to the good. In fact, the original crew might have pulled Reid out. One of the seminal moments of Season 2 was the end of Jones, where Gideon has tracked Reid down to the bar and eventually Reid says he missed the plane on purpose. Gideon begins this confession about The Job, how it's driven him from ecstasy to insanity, and Reid says he wondered if he could step away from the job. Gideon says,"And?"

 

And when Reid says, "I'll never miss another plane again," Gideon's face freezes and his smile fades. His eyes cant downwards, and I have always been left with the thought that he felt guilty that Reid couldn't leave, to save his soul.

[Droogie]

And when Reid says, "I'll never miss another plane again," Gideon's face freezes and his smile fades. His eyes cant downwards, and I have always been left with the thought that he felt guilty that Reid couldn't leave, to save his soul.

YES. Gideon realizes Reid is too far gone, is too invested, it's too late for Gideon to have his do-over... He took this young man and groomed him, and ultimately, the job got the better of him, rather than him triumphing over the job, as Gideon wanted.

I don't think Gideon banked on Reid's utter vulnerability; how impressionable he truly was. I also don't think he expected Reid's admiration of Hotch.

I think Reid would've bucked Gideon's instruction relative to Riley Jenkins, the doctor in Uncanny Valley, Strauss's inquisition about Hotch. I think they may have even come to blows about Maeve.

...although I don't think the drivel about Maeve would've ever even been a thing, nor do I think the show would've gone on that long, like I said.

[smoker]

 I kind of struggle to fully buy Rossi as a founding member of the BAU and acclaimed author. And this is coming from someone who's a big JM fan :)

 

 

I understand the feeling, I think if we went back a few decades we could see they were the freak and the affirmative action guy, so they threw them the awful/hard cases other agents couldn't use to look good. And those were the first steps of the BAU. About the career as a writer is the same thing, he was one of the first guys doing this job and he is not stupid so with his experience and a bit of effort... voilâ! a book!

 

I have to say I did like the character in season 3, he was different and an asshole which was fun to watch, I prefer Gideon but Rossi was good enough,

I hate grandpa Rossi.

I hate Amelia Porter, I hate he turned Hotch in a guy desperate for a quickie when every viewer knows that's a huge out of character scene.

And I hate every time one of his girlfriends/wives die (how many by now? 3, 4... named him O'Conell instead of Rossi already!) he got some kind of cheapy epiphany about true love when he is as much of a dog as Morgan was!

 

I think writers are creating some club with people who only have a relationship (aka put up with their partners crap) because they feel bored and lonely in their spare time, JJ, Morgan and Rossi. And that is a slap in the face of people who actually are doing a sacrifice to be themselves and it's disrespectful towards their couples.

 

ok, sorry for any mistake, I have to stop because my grammar works better with simpler thoughts and madness is not helping right now

Edited November 5, 2015 by smoker

[smoker]

Which scene was this? 

the final one when they are trying so hard getting their dicks wet they even stink

Edited November 5, 2015 by smoker

[rapgodminho]

My unpopular opinion is that I really don't like Seven Seconds (or at least I think it's that one), mainly because of one line of dialogue. Somewhat paraphrased: "The other day she was ready to ride her bike............WITHOUT TRAINING WHEELS."

 

It makes me giggle every time.

[rapgodminho]

Maybe we should make a whole list. I have some more too:

 

-There's an episode where someone asks Rossi(?) what's in a box he's holding or something. His response? "EVIL." Alright, Rossi.

 

-Some guy falls off something sometime in season 7 and goes "oh my god i think you broke my back" in the most deadpan and not-in-pain voice possible

 

-Pretty sure there's a scene in A Shade of Gray where the kid eats Doritos while ominous music plays

 

-Reid's voice gets annoyingly high pitched when he's chewing out the girls at Hotch's marathon, like I know MGG pitches his voice a little higher for Reid but that was ridiculous.

 

-Prentiss describing Rossi as an 'anal retentive neat freak' or something very similar, but puts the focus weirdly on the ANAL part. I didn't need to know that about Rossi thx Prentiss

 

-The Womb Raider in Profiling 101 shares their name with the porn parody of Tomb Raider

 

-Reid/MGG randomly declares himself//JJ (different people say two different things) 'borderline r*******' in the end scene of Empty Planet and nobody decided to cut it out/not use that take, so you can just hear him saying it really quietly in the background

 

Also at this point I would move this onto another thread but idk where to put it really. The Bullpen one?

[smoker]

I watched next episode promo

be warned I am about to spit some venom

 

did I miss the part when Hotch was in a Hug Therapy or something?? Who decided he was going to be a new huggy man to show how good he means? are they high or just r*******??!!

 

and why are they drinking some spirit drink in the middle of the bureau like it's New year party?? are they telling us they didn't visit JJ after she had her baby?? why are they making a party out of biology? yes, delivering a baby is natural in mammals not something Agent JJ just invented. Maybe the party is because supermom went back to work. well, let me tell you something, there are millions of superworkingmoms around the world and their first day after maternity leave is not a bath of glory (sadly)

[JMO]

and why are they drinking some spirit drink in the middle of the bureau like it's New year party?? are they telling us they didn't visit JJ after she had her baby?? why are they making a party out of biology? yes, delivering a baby is natural in mammals not something Agent JJ just invented. Maybe the party is because supermom went back to work. well, let me tell you something, there are millions of superworkingmoms around the world and their first day after maternity leave is not a bath of glory (sadly)

 

Where I work, the other departments are jealous because we always seem to be celebrating something.  We celebrate birthdays, engagements, weddings, retirements, baby announcements and yes, people coming back to work from leave, whether for illness or pregnancy.  And yes, there has been champagne involved---but only after the workday has ended.  If JJ had been a member of our department, she would have been welcomed back with a party, yes.

 

Would the BAU do that?  Without Garcia, no.  With Garcia?  All bets are off.

 

Not just for you, Smoker, but for anybody reading this:  If you find it sad that something isn't celebrated---celebrate it!

[smoker]

Where I work, the other departments are jealous because we always seem to be celebrating something.  We celebrate birthdays, engagements, weddings, retirements, baby announcements and yes, people coming back to work from leave, whether for illness or pregnancy.  And yes, there has been champagne involved---but only after the workday has ended.  If JJ had been a member of our department, she would have been welcomed back with a party, yes.

 

Would the BAU do that?  Without Garcia, no.  With Garcia?  All bets are off.

 

Not just for you, Smoker, but for anybody reading this:  If you find it sad that something isn't celebrated---celebrate it!

you got some good points there JMO,  in my work place we usually have a drink after work, in the work place of a friend of mine is more like you have said and other just do nothing, so I guess it depends on a lot of things (coworkers, workplace, timing...) but that's real life.

Edited November 7, 2015 by smoker

[smoker]

I'm feeling the need of explaining myself better about the welcoming scene,
my complaint about that it's the fact it's only the team celebrating, they are good and close friends so it's imposible they didn't pay her a visit after she had the baby. Drinks and warm greetings should be with all her coworkers not only the tiny team. Maybe we can see that in the whole episode.
And they didn't show any celebration after someone came back from a medical leave or whatever.
And you can say the same (only team members) about baby Jack meeting the team but not a party there, just Haley passing by... and what if I am biased because of all the Mary Sue soreness through the years? it's so weird that anything related to JJ bothers me? xP

Edited November 7, 2015 by smoker

[amensisterfriend]

So you know how at various points throughout the series the show will vaguely raise issues of impending budget cuts or restructuring and we're supposed to think 'oh no, those evil bureaucrats are threatening to disrupt our heroic team"?!  My very UO is that I've never thought the team needed to consist of more than about four people. That's been especially true after the first few seasons, at which point the show all but abandoned the pretense of each team member bringing different specialties, skills and areas of expertise to the case at hand. (Not to mention all having more or less the same personality---or lack thereof---and the same exact blandly, tepidly harmonious relationships with one another!)

 

If they all have identical and seemingly limitless skills, abilities, knowledge and perspectives, why in the world would you need more than just a few people? In far too many episodes, given members of the team contribute literally nothing other than lamely completing someone else's sentence while delivering the profile! Higher ups are generally depicted as callous, soulless bureaucrats on crime dramas, but, honestly, I really think that most people conducting a good faith evaluation of the AU would conclude that they have more staff and resources than they even pretend to need! And from a viewer's perspective, I've always thought that a smaller team would lead to better definition and development of the (now fewer) characters who remain and more differentiated, nuanced relationships with one another rather than everyone's characters and relationships being so maddeningly interchangeable. Then again, with the way these writers do characterization and intra-team relationships, maybe I'm giving them too much credit to think that a smaller team would result in an improvement :) Oh, well...at least terribly defined characters/team dynamics means we get to have fun fanwanking, right?!  

Edited November 7, 2015 by amensisterfriend

[smoker]

Rossi's daughter is there I think so maybe the party has nothing to do with JJ. 

we can dream :)

[SSAHotchner]

Where I work, the other departments are jealous because we always seem to be celebrating something.  We celebrate birthdays, engagements, weddings, retirements, baby announcements and yes, people coming back to work from leave, whether for illness or pregnancy.  And yes, there has been champagne involved---but only after the workday has ended.  If JJ had been a member of our department, she would have been welcomed back with a party, yes.

 

Would the BAU do that?  Without Garcia, no.  With Garcia?  All bets are off.

 

Not just for you, Smoker, but for anybody reading this:  If you find it sad that something isn't celebrated---celebrate it!

Haha, that makes me think of the Seinfeld episode where Elaine's workplace keeps having cake for every minor occasion. "Get well, get well soon. We wish you to get well!"

[ForeverAlone]

we can dream :)

 

Based on what we saw in the promo, Rossi's daughter was nowhere to be found, and it really did seem to be more about celebrating JJ's return to work. 

[ForeverAlone]

That is Rossi's daughter, but when you see the opening scenes of the promo and hear the words, it seems pretty clear that the drinks and celebration were for JJ's return to work. I didn't see Rossi's daughter in those scenes, and if I have to guess, she probably comes in during the party with whatever case they are going to be investigating this episode. 

[amensisterfriend]

Okay, so this weekend's mini-marathon has yielded a new one...please be gentle :) 

 

I really enjoy The Performer. I get why people dislike it, but it's entertaining and engaging to me in the same way that episodes like Empty Plant and Masterpiece are---I'm not sure if those episodes are intentionally a little over the top, but either way they have a certain energy and sense of fun (for me!) that we don't often get to see. The characters have nice little lines and moments in this one, and I enjoy the subtle jabs at the vampire fad, hilariously pretentious singers and their groupies, etc. 

 

Also, I don't hate The Fight. I totally should, but I don't! 

 

Maybe subsequent seasons have made even the worst of S1-S5 seem like classics to me by comparison?! 

Edited November 7, 2015 by amensisterfriend

[ForeverAlone]

I can generally like The Performeras a story, though that writer gets Reid nearly completely wrong in her characterization of him. Plus, just ignore that little time plot hole involving JJ.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

I really enjoy The Performer. I get why people dislike it, but it's entertaining and engaging to me in the same way that episodes like Empty Plant and Masterpiece are---I'm not sure if those episodes are intentionally a little over the top, but either way they have a certain energy and sense of fun (for me!) that we don't often get to see. The characters have nice little lines and moments in this one, and I enjoy the subtle jabs at the vampire fad, hilariously pretentious singers and their groupies, etc. 

 

For anyone who didn't already know it, Dante/Paul Davies was played by Gavin Rossdale, the lead singer of Bush and Gwen Stefani's ex husband. He also played a hilariously pretentious demon named Balthazar in the film Constantine.

 

I also like The Performer, or at least appreciate it. It makes me happy to think that Reid is unaware of the existence of Edward Cullen.

Edited November 7, 2015 by Cobalt Stargazer

[Bookish Jen]

For anyone who didn't already know it, Dante/Paul Davies was played by Gavin Rossdale, the lead singer of Bush and Gwen Stefani's ex husband. He also played a hilariously pretentious demon named Balthazar in the film Constantine.

 

I also like The Performer, or at least appreciate it. It makes me happy to think that Reid is unaware of the existence of Edward Cullen.

Yes, I, too, am relieved Spencer is blessedly unaware of Edward Cullen and that collection of shit-stained toilet paper called "Twilight."

 

One of the reasons why I kind of like The Performer is Dante sings one of my favorite songs, "Love Will Tear Us Apart" by Joy Division.

 

[normasm]

Yes, Booky! I immediately teared up when i first saw this episode, when he was singing that song. Oh. Joy Division. 

Edited November 11, 2015 by normasm

[Bookish Jen]

Yes, Booky! I immediately teared up when i first saw this episode, when he was singing that song. Oh. Joy Division. 

I know Joy Division eventually morphed into New Order, but we lost Ian Curtis way too soon.

 

But I have fond memories of dancing to "Love Will Tear Us Apart" at Mad Planet. Good times, good times.

[Bookish Jen]

I don't know if this is an unpopular opinion but it is mine. I prefer how Spencer dresses to how Matthew dresses. Matthew looks perfectly fine (hmm, that's putting it mildly); it's just he dresses like every other hipster in my neighborhood. Plus, Spencer's outfits better suit how I dress. My style might be best described as "slutty librarian."

 

Hmm, just now Derek Morgan stopped by and said, "Did someone say slutty?" To which I say, "Yes, I did say slutty; I also said librarian so shoo!"

[Western]

I'm at the point that I don't care if the show gets renewed. I'll keep watching (in the UK so my veiwing doens't help anyway) because I'm a masochist but its one of a few shows this year that I'm actually leaning towards 'end it now you've had many many seasons'.

I really don't like feeling that way about a show I only got into 3? years ago and binge watched to catch up.

 

[Danielg342]

Posted this in “Internal Affairs” but thought I'd repeat it here (edited for clarity):

I really think AJ Cook has gotten a lot better since she returned from maternity leave. Perhaps this is because JJ is more of a "take-charge" kind of character this year instead of the "soft and soothing" character the writers seem intent on shoehorning her into. If JJ became a snarky, abrasive character who's full of one-liners, takes no crap from anyone and keeps Hotch on his toes (because she'd likely be a maverick), I'd say she'd actually be a fun character to watch. It plays way more to Cook's strengths than to be the "warm, gentile" agent.

I mean, I know why JJ is tasked to be "warm and fuzzy"- it's her anatomy- but I hope the writers have now finally realized she's just not that character. She's far better as a snark queen who can put UnSubs in their place and keep Hotch on his toes.

All right, let the stoning begin.

[smoker]

stoning is not allowed here, you're that lucky hehe

But let's leave Hotch out of it, just in case...

[amensisterfriend]

I haven't even been watching the latest episodes due to lack of time and interest, but I do agree with you in general, Daniel, that JJ is by far most believable and interesting when they embrace the snarky ice queen mean girl who's friendly from a distance and knows how to make the right impression on the public at large but who's very slow to trust or truly care. But I'll add to the unpopularity that this was ALWAYS true for me, even back when she was supposedly JJ 1.0 (who, again, isn't all that different for me except for the fact that she had a more unique role within the team and was less of a ninja.)

Even in earlier seasons, the moments when JJ was all bitchy and impatient and eye roll-y even when her heart was in the right place are actually the only times she came to life for me. I know the writers were apparently going to for the 'open, warm, optimistic, compassionate small town sweetheart who's the heart of the group!' thing, but for me both the writing and (especially) the choice of actress were just all wrong for that, right from the beginning. AJ Cook just doesn't sell me on genuine sweetness and warmth, not with those facial expressions, line deliveries, constant eye rolls, etc. Not only is she a far less interesting fictional character when they try to force the super all-nurturing,sweet-as-sugar stuff, but it just never comes off as remotely believable to me. Let her be the slightly toned down Cordelia Chase of the group...that's honestly how I always fanwanked her anyway :) 

Edited December 4, 2015 by amensisterfriend

[JMO]

I haven't even been watching the latest episodes due to lack of time and interest, but I do agree with you in general, Daniel, that JJ is by far most believable and interesting when they embrace the snarky ice queen mean girl who's friendly from a distance and knows how to make the right impression on the public at large but who's very slow to trust or truly care. But I'll add to the unpopularity that this was ALWAYS true for me, even back when she was supposedly JJ 1.0 (who, again, isn't all that different for me except for the fact that she had a more unique role within the team and was less of a ninja.)

Even in earlier seasons, the moments when JJ was all bitchy and impatient and eye roll-y even when her heart was in the right place are actually the only times she came to life for me. I know the writers were apparently going to for the 'open, warm, optimistic, compassionate small town sweetheart who's the heart of the group!' thing, but for me both the writing and (especially) the choice of actress were just all wrong for that, right from the beginning. AJ Cook just doesn't sell me on genuine sweetness and warmth, not with those facial expressions, line deliveries, constant eye rolls, etc. Not only is she a far less interesting fictional character when they try to force the super all-nurturing,sweet-as-sugar stuff, but it just never comes off as remotely believable to me. Let her be the slightly toned down Cordelia Chase of the group...that's honestly how I always fanwanked her anyway :) 

 

I actually think you've got her pretty well down, Amen.  She was always aloof and professionally competent.  The few times she let her guard down---mostly with Garcia, Hotch and Reid--- were effective because they were rare, and even then, it was on her terms.  There have been soft moments, but they've been few and far between----which, in my opinion, only serves to make her just like many other, very real, women.  

 

To categorize her as either 'soft and fuzzy' or 'badass' is to limit her.  I think JJ has long had the potential to be a fascinating, complex, character. Disappointingly, that potential has gone completely unexplored.

[Danielg342]

That's true...1.0 was better like that too. Probably my favourite JJ scene was her mocking “Brad, the real FBI agent” because he “kicked criminal ass”. All three of them had such fun with that scene, but JJ was especially notable, I think.

Crap, why can't the writers realize she'd be so much better as “comic relief” (or, Rossi as a younger woman, an analogy that makes even more sense because JJ was inspired to join the FBI because she saw one of Rossi's lectures)?

[Bookish Jen]

Obviously, liking the original recipe JJ when her cooler veneer and mean girl vibe served her well as media liaison is not an unpopular opinion around here. I also admired JJ for how well she did choosing the cases for the BAU to focus on, which must take a steely resolve that I clearly lack.

 

Warm, sensitive and empathetic JJ just doesn't work, and that's okay. Not every woman is a nurturing type. To me, Spencer is more of a nurturer. He is the one who is truly warm, sensitive and empathetic. These qualities don't make him less of a man. But just as JJ has been ruined by MESSer and co, Spencer has also been ruined and turned into nothing but a pretty mannequin. Just pull his string and he'll mechanically spout a bunch of random facts. What a waste.

[smoker]

I haven't even been watching the latest episodes due to lack of time and interest, but I do agree with you in general, Daniel, that JJ is by far most believable and interesting when they embrace the snarky ice queen mean girl who's friendly from a distance and knows how to make the right impression on the public at large but who's very slow to trust or truly care. But I'll add to the unpopularity that this was ALWAYS true for me, even back when she was supposedly JJ 1.0 (who, again, isn't all that different for me except for the fact that she had a more unique role within the team and was less of a ninja.)

Even in earlier seasons, the moments when JJ was all bitchy and impatient and eye roll-y even when her heart was in the right place are actually the only times she came to life for me. I know the writers were apparently going to for the 'open, warm, optimistic, compassionate small town sweetheart who's the heart of the group!' thing, but for me both the writing and (especially) the choice of actress were just all wrong for that, right from the beginning. AJ Cook just doesn't sell me on genuine sweetness and warmth, not with those facial expressions, line deliveries, constant eye rolls, etc. Not only is she a far less interesting fictional character when they try to force the super all-nurturing,sweet-as-sugar stuff, but it just never comes off as remotely believable to me. Let her be the slightly toned down Cordelia Chase of the group...that's honestly how I always fanwanked her anyway :) 

Love it!!!

now we have a Cordelia Chase and an Elliot Ness!

I love these references, CSI used Jordan Catalano once and there are more but I can't remember them haha

I wish Reid grew up to be more like Gil Grissom :D

 

[Reghan]

Hey guys! This is my first post actually :)

 

I also just read this entire thread. 

 

Based on what I've read I see that many of you are not JJ/Garcia fans. Personally I love Garcia and I couldn't picture the show without her. She's a lot like Abby from NCIS. I feel like every show needs that happy character. That character that will do her best to make sure that the people she loves are happy. 

 

As far as JJ goes I've never had an issue with her. I think the change in her makes sense. It kind of started before she left. After "Penelope" when she shot her first unsub. I started noticing a change in her. 

 

Noone has mentioned Tara Lewis and I'm curious about your thoughts on her. I don't like her at all, I don't think she has any chemistry with the team.

 

As far as Prentiss coming back to the show, I think it would be awesome if she came back for an episode to ask for help on a case.

 

I heard someone is leaving the show and I'm not sure if this is an unpopular opinion or not, but I think it should be Rossi. It makes the most sense because he's older and I could see him retiring.

[JMO]

Welcome, Reghan!

[SparedTurkey]

I don't like the overwhelming need to put the blame on the actress for JJ's rise to stardom and subsequent decline of the show's quality. I don't care if people don't like the character or how she has changed - I don't particularly either. But I don't think it is fair to blame the actress who has nothing to do with writing or producing the show. Would she like the changes and more screen time? I imagine absolutely -if for no other reason than it would be more protection than being summarily fired for not being young enough. But blaming her for the decline of he quality of the show - when it has been 11 years and the writers have been there for a huge number of years and don't have any original stories? Not fair. Unless AJ Cook has been secretly writing and executive-producing the show for the last 6 years - not her fault.

 

Also there is a disproportionate level of vitriol aimed at JJ/AJ Cook that is not levelled at Morgan/Shemar (who has been doing the same thing since day 1) or Hotch/Thomas (who also directs the show on occasion) or Matthew Gubler(who has written episodes since season 5). Plus, Prentiss used to bust down doors with Morgan - not much of a difference.

 

I'm not saying people need to love JJ. I don't like Morgan, Garcia or Gideon. I preferred JJ before season 6. But I am saying the actress does not deserve the blame for the way the show is going/how her character has been written.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

I don't like the overwhelming need to put the blame on the actress for JJ's rise to stardom and subsequent decline of the show's quality. I don't care if people don't like the character or how she has changed - I don't particularly either. But I don't think it is fair to blame the actress who has nothing to do with writing or producing the show. Would she like the changes and more screen time? I imagine absolutely -if for no other reason than it would be more protection than being summarily fired for not being young enough. But blaming her for the decline of he quality of the show - when it has been 11 years and the writers have been there for a huge number of years and don't have any original stories? Not fair. Unless AJ Cook has been secretly writing and executive-producing the show for the last 6 years - not her fault.

 

Also there is a disproportionate level of vitriol aimed at JJ/AJ Cook that is not levelled at Morgan/Shemar (who has been doing the same thing since day 1) or Hotch/Thomas (who also directs the show on occasion) or Matthew Gubler(who has written episodes since season 5). Plus, Prentiss used to bust down doors with Morgan - not much of a difference.

 

I'm not saying people need to love JJ. I don't like Morgan, Garcia or Gideon. I preferred JJ before season 6. But I am saying the actress does not deserve the blame for the way the show is going/how her character has been written.

 

I'm sure I've said this before, but what the hell.

 

I can't speak for anyone else, but I personally don't blame AJ the actress/person for what's become of JJ, and by extension the show. I put the blame for that squarely on the shoulders of Erica Messer, and in conjunction with that the network for giving her such free reign. I think she's a terrible showrunner, and I think if they had fired her when it turned out that she's a terrible showrunner, the recurring theme of the show's decline in quality wouldn't be an axe to grind.

 

If it appears that AJ is getting some of the blame/blowback, IMO that's because she (and JJ) have been the only ones to really benefit from the fact that Erica sucks at her job. People (meaning me) don't like to see favorites so clearly being played, and while I'm sure that EM is a nice enough person and probably even thinks she's doing good work, the proof of the polar opposite is in our complaints.

 

As for Morgan, I think he's patronizing and condescending seventy to eighty percent of the time, but with that said, he isn't the one who became a profiler almost overnight without it ever being explained why he decided to do so when he'd said very firmly in the past that he liked the job he already had and had no interest in doing something else. Pointing out when something is inconsistent and/or makes no sense isn't 'unfair', and if Morgan had suddenly gone from being the media liaison to impersonating Jack Bauer* on a regular basis, I myself would certainly have something to say about it.

 

*I suppose you could argue that Morgan started out impersonating Jack Bauer, but tackling people and kicking down doors was a pre-existing condition for him, not something he picked up randomly. JJ? One minute she was dealing with the families of victims and local LEOs, and then the next she was drop-kicking people, or at least that's how it seemed to me. Characters can and should change, but it should make sense and it shouldn't give you a neck injury from the 180.

[JMO]

While I miss the BAU having a media liaison position, and thought JJ was very good at the job, I also don't begrudge the character becoming a profiler.  To me, it doesn't matter that she once said she didn't want the job.  Changing one's mind is not inconsistency.  It's the privilege of age and experience.

 

She might have had an advantage in the transformation.  I remember her telling Jordan that the job she was doing (case selection) required profiling skills.  (And, frankly, that job should probably have belonged to Hotch.)

 

I don't think the move to profiler was portrayed as happening overnight.  From the time JJ left it, the team was without a liaison.  But, from the time of Emily's 'death', it was also without a profiler.  I think we were meant to understand that, when JJ told Rossi, at the end of season 6, that she would return to the BAU, she was returning to take the profiler position.  If it had already been offered to her, then Rossi knew she'd already been undergoing training. It could have been happening both during her time away, and during however many months were supposed to have elapsed between seasons six and seven.  

 

All of that might have worked in the chronology of the already unrealistic milieu of our TV BAU---until, of course, (the awful) 200 put the whole timeline in disarray.  Now I don't know what we are supposed to make of it.

 

Anyway, I don't mind JJ as a profiler.  But I do think the writers missed a golden opportunity to show us her progression to confidence in the role, as she learned from her colleagues.  It would have offered so many opportunities for rich interaction among the various individuals, and maybe even a glimpse at the challenges to one's psyche of having to get inside the mind of a serial killer.  It could have been fascinating, especially as it happened to someone we already knew and cared about.

 

For Morgan, there was also a change in characterization, from jacket-and-tie cerebrality to door-kicker.  But it came early enough in the run of the show, that I think it came across more as the revelation of another aspect of his character than as a change.  More an 'unfolding of canon' than an inconsistency with it.  

 

Begging the question----at what point does character development transfer from the writers to the fans?  That is, at what point does it move from 'creating canon' to 'flying in the face of it'?  Do the writers lose the right to create new backstory?  Is backstory set in stone?  Can they add to backstory, as long as they don't change what's come before?  Or have the characters become etched to the point that the fans won't accept that?

 

 

[missmycat]

 

 or Matthew Gubler(who has written episodes since season 5).

I can't imagine where you got this erroneous information from.But, Matthew has never written a single episode of Criminal Minds. He has directed some of them before though.

Edited December 13, 2015 by missmycat