Criminal Minds Unpopular Opinions

[Mom x 3]

On 6/17/2017 at 3:45 AM, In My Zone said:

The only thing I need to return is Hotch. And Blake. I'm sick of watching this show without Hotch. Don't get me wrong, I love Emily to death but TG was really something..

Agreed.  I loved Blake.  I loved that she was super intelligent and her relationship with Spencer.  

[Hotchgirl18]

I loved Blake. My favorite female agent. 

[normasm]

Looks like none of us will get what we want, which, for the most part, is NO additions to the cast

[ReidFan]

sigh.

i just don't understand why they can't see what is so bloody plainly obvious to us.

[roamyn]

Not all of us want Hot h back.  He's ok, but I could care less.  He was a boring, cold character most of the time (granted I'm only up to S5).

Like so many others, he's gone, he's never coming back (most likely), let's be thankful the show is still on.

[Hotchgirl18]

I won't get what I want. ? 

[Old Dog]

10 minutes ago, roamyn said:

Not all of us want Hot h back.  He's ok, but I could care less.  He was a boring, cold character most of the time (granted I'm only up to S5).

Like so many others, he's gone, he's never coming back (most likely), let's be thankful the show is still on.

If you're only up to S5 I'm staggered you think of Hotch like that! In the early seasons he showed the whole range of human emotion from funny, compassionate, caring, rebellious, brave, harrowed etc, etc. In later seasons they failed to show him so favourably. I still miss him although obviously things have moved on. I dislike Prentiss as Unit Chief - it just doesn't sit well and PB often over acts. We finally had two great episodes at the end of Season 12 - let's hope they keep the momentum going and maintain that level. They need to as the show generally over recent seasons hasn't been strong enough to hold interest for the episodes without Reid and it seems he may miss a number of episodes in Season 13.

[Hotchgirl18]

I'm staggered too! And I don't like prentiss either. As far as I'm concerned, the team has no leader. 

[Nothingsurprisesme]

3 hours ago, Old Dog said:

If you're only up to S5 I'm staggered you think of Hotch like that! In the early seasons he showed the whole range of human emotion from funny, compassionate, caring, rebellious, brave, harrowed etc, etc. In later seasons they failed to show him so favourably. I still miss him although obviously things have moved on. I dislike Prentiss as Unit Chief - it just doesn't sit well and PB often over acts. We finally had two great episodes at the end of Season 12 - let's hope they keep the momentum going and maintain that level. They need to as the show generally over recent seasons hasn't been strong enough to hold interest for the episodes without Reid and it seems he may miss a number of episodes in Season 13.

I am actually enjoying Emily as Unit Chief.  If anything, it's toned down her character from "super/can do anything" agent (same as JJ).  Like her much better now.  Funny how we all see these characters so differently.

Why are people saying that MGG will miss several episodes in CM13?  Has this been stated somewhere or are people assuming because it's happened in the past?

[Old Dog]

He's had October off for the last two seasons and missed episodes so safe to assume that pattern will continue. I doubt he was on set much last season because all the prison scenes were shot in a block over a short period and then inserted into the episodes. It feels like he really wants to move on and do other things but is holding on for his many fans. I bet he misses more episodes this season than last, especially as they won't give him much focus after Reid's big storyline in S12, and I'm just not interested in the show without him as the writing, with a few exceptions, has been very lacklustre.

[MrWhyt]

15 minutes ago, Old Dog said:

 It feels like he really wants to move on and do other things but is holding on for his many fans.

Don't underestimate the lure of a steady paycheck.

[Old Dog]

6 minutes ago, MrWhyt said:

Don't underestimate the lure of a steady paycheck.

I doubt Matthew worries too much about money - he comes from a very wealthy background.

[ReidFan]

yeah, he's more about the 'entertaining' and the artistry. Doubt very much the *money* means that much to him....

[Old Dog]

My unpopular opinion is that, in my opinion, in recent years Paget Brewster has a distinct tendency to over act. The Season 13 premiere did little to change my opinion, although to be fair she was quite believable when she "died!

[Hotchgirl18]

57 minutes ago, Old Dog said:

My unpopular opinion is that, in my opinion, in recent years Paget Brewster has a distinct tendency to over act. The Season 13 premiere did little to change my opinion, although to be fair she was quite believable when she "died!

Amen on the overacting.  

[Hotchgirl18]

Actually, it should've been Emily Prentiss who died. I cannot STAND what she has become. 

[Lucky Thirteen]

While everyone is settling for the whole 'Hotch is never coming back', I think he needs to return even if it's just as a guest star. He was a major character throughout the series. It's annoying how they decided to sweep his character under the rug and move on. It's absurd and an insult to his fanbase. 

Edited September 28, 2017 by Lucky Thirteen

[ReidFan]

and it's out of the hands of Erica Messer and staff.

[Hotchgirl18]

41 minutes ago, Lucky Thirteen said:

While everyone is settling for the whole 'Hotch is never coming back', I think he needs to return even if it's just as a guest star. He was a major character throughout the series. It's annoying how they decided to sweep his character under the rug and move on. It's absurd and an insult to his fanbase. 

I think so too.  I won't move on. I'm still gonna keep him alive no matter what anyone says. Emily can take her motivational and crappy leadership and shove it.

26 minutes ago, ReidFan said:

and it's out of the hands of Erica Messer and staff.

Erica probably wanted him gone as much as the ABC did.

[normasm]

Guys, it's unpopular but TG is not coming back. He was fired. Whether or not you agree with it, and I know you don't, it is a fete accompli and has been for over a year. If you don't believe the fact of this, then you will continue to be frustrated. If you don't like the show without Hotch, there's a remedy.

Just understand: if it can no longer happen (and it can't), it won't.

[Hotchgirl18]

Hmmmm. Apparently Luke and Reid are starting to get along. Like Reid and Morgan. And Luke is growing on me. And Luke is essentially replacement for Morgan. Maybe we need an exact replication of Hotch? 

[Aethera]

Guys, please stop arguing about Thomas Gibson in every....single...thread.  I don't care which side of it you're on, but many of you have a lot of trouble being civil to each other, and it leads to continuous arguments. We're not forbidding the subject, we're not taking a side, but stop trying to convince each other of the right way to handle it, stop asserting your right to mourn, stop crusading in one direction or the other, just stop. Civil discussion is absolutely fine, but that seems hard to come by. Be civil, and respect everyone's right to their own opinion, no matter how much it upsets you or makes your eyes roll or frustrates you or makes you want to eat an entire container of chocolate chip ice cream - learn to walk away from the thread if you can't respond without being rude, defensive, condescending, etc. This hill is absolutely not worth dying on. We're done with mod notes and PMs. Going forward, we'll be suspending people who can't follow the rules. 

[smoker]

unpopular opinion

I loathe the "wheels up" scene in episode 13x01.

I throw up a little bit in my mouth while watching it and I still can taste it when I think about it.

[Hotchgirl18]

1 hour ago, smoker said:

unpopular opinion

I loathe the "wheels up" scene in episode 13x01.

I throw up a little bit in my mouth while watching it and I still can taste it when I think about it.

It was very cheesy. So, is this Criminal Minds or a louis giglio sermon?

[smoker]

1 hour ago, Hotchgirl18 said:

It was very cheesy. So, is this Criminal Minds or a louis giglio sermon?

Don't know Louis Giglio, but it was pretty cheesy and really weird, awful... xD

Edited September 30, 2017 by smoker

[Hotchgirl18]

1 hour ago, smoker said:

Don't know Louis Giglio, but it was pretty cheesy and really weird, awful... xD

Louis Giglio is a feel good type pastor.

[smoker]

the show suffers from poor creativity, horrible writing and it has been decadent for years, no matter who was part of the cast five years ago or nowadays.

[Guest]

I moved quite a few posts here, which is where you talk about all the seasons as a whole.

[Willowsmom]

Reid needs to grow up. He needs to get that hair under control and stop the vulnerable intern BS. His image reflects badly on the BAU and FBI as a whole.

[AsYouWish]

It's hard for me to comment on Reid overall since I've only seen the first season, but I don't really see long hair or emotional vulnerability as reflecting poorly on the individual or the organization of which he's a part. I'd imagine the FBI has about a million other, far more egregious things to concern itself with, like employees who are unethical, incompetent, and so on. 

[ForeverAlone]

The FBI does have grooming standards, and Reid has very  much drifted outside of those standards. Granted, he's been doing it for years with his long hair, but combine his uncombed hair with face scraggle, he has really drifted away from the grooming standards. I wouldn't care, except I find Matthew so beautiful with short hair, and I haven't been able to enjoy him visually for a couple seasons now. 

[Hotchgirl18]

5 minutes ago, ForeverAlone said:

The FBI does have grooming standards, and Reid has very  much drifted outside of those standards. Granted, he's been doing it for years with his long hair, but combine his uncombed hair with face scraggle, he has really drifted away from the grooming standards. I wouldn't care, except I find Matthew so beautiful with short hair, and I haven't been able to enjoy him visually for a couple seasons now. 

I love the new scruffy Reid.

[AsYouWish]

I am still constantly watching and really loving this show. My mom still loves it too, and the fact that it's a source of bonding between us now makes me love it even more.

A few more unpopular opinions I've developed now that I'm on S8:

Part of me ships Reid with a very unmarried JJ now. I don't know how or why that happened. I know most disagree and understand why, but it can't be helped!

Seasons 4 and 5 are my two very favorite seasons. I think loving S5 this much seems to be unpopular...? I just adore every bit of it and like that both the drama and the lighter moments seemed more pronounced this season.

I don't see nearly as drastic a change in JJ as most do. I also have a headcanon based off a few scenes that she's very self-doubting and insecure, which helps me sympathize with her.

I'll make this even more unpopular by admitting that to me JJ is a lot more consistently depicted than Prentiss. I know Emily is a very popular character, but I saw her as all over the place. Like someone else said a while back in this thread, they tried to make her a socially awkward, geeky dork, a badass superwoman, an emo goth-y type, and everything in between, and it seems to switch depending on the episode. I like the actress so miss her a bit now that I'm on S8 (though as much as I try to avoid spoilers, I know she eventually comes back!), but I never felt like I had a strong grasp of the character.

Weighing in on the eternal question of the series: Reid's hair ;) I'm in the group who prefers it shorter and more tame (I don't even know if that's the popular or unpopular opinion by now), but I love it regardless.

By the way, my lovely mother wants me to "marry Reid." Aside from the tiny stumbling block of him being a fictional character rather than a real person, I broke the news that thousands of members of the online fandom had already called dibs. "Well, Hotch would make a wonderful husband too," she conceded. I'll let you guys know when we set the date ;) 

Edited December 27, 2017 by AsYouWish

[Annber03]

1 hour ago, AsYouWish said:

A few more unpopular opinions I've developed now that I'm on S8:

Part of me ships Reid with a very unmarried JJ now. I don't know how or why that happened. I know most disagree and understand why, but it can't be helped!

I like Reid/JJ, too. I do like Will-I think he's a good guy, I like him and JJ together, and I especially like that they've lasted as long as they have. 

But yeah, if we're talking about possible relationships between the team members themselves, Reid and JJ together would make a lot of sense to me. 

Quote

Seasons 4 and 5 are my two very favorite seasons. I think loving S5 this much seems to be unpopular...? I just adore every bit of it and like that both the drama and the lighter moments seemed more pronounced this season.

I like season 5 :). I thought the show was doing some interesting things with Morgan taking over as unit chief for a time, I like the way the show handled the Foyet arc, what is probably my favorite MGG-directed episode is in that season and "Our Darkest Hour" was the very first CM episode I ever saw, so, yeah. Lots to appreciate about season 5. 

And I definitely love season 4 as well. Lots of really good storylines and episodes there, too, including one of my all-time favorites ("Memoriam"). 

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I don't see nearly as drastic a change in JJ as most do. I also have a headcanon based off a few scenes that she's very self-doubting and insecure, which helps me sympathize with her.

Definitely agreed on this. I've seen some of that, too. And I think the fact that she does project such a tough, confident demeanor only further proves that, because it's a good way to try and mask all of those doubts and insecurities. 

Quote

I'll make this even more unpopular by admitting that to me JJ is a lot more consistently depicted than Prentiss. I know Emily is a very popular character, but I saw her as all over the place. Like someone else said a while back in this thread, they tried to make her a socially awkward, geeky dork, a badass superwoman, an emo goth-y type, and everything in between, and it seems to switch depending on the episode. I like the actress so miss her a bit now that I'm on S8 (though as much as I try to avoid spoilers, I know she eventually comes back!), but I never felt like I had a strong grasp of the character.

You make an interesting point about Emily being a whole gaggle full of different traits. The fact that she is so chameleon-like and has so many varied facets is one of my favorite things about her (if nothing else, it would fit with her character's history of moving around and needing to put on new personas and whatnot), but I can definitely see your point about that leading to her characterization possibly being all over the place, too. I think the socially awkward, geeky, goth-y aspects make sense together, but yeah, it does seem a bit odd to go from that to practically being a spy and an undercover agent/assassin type. 

Quote

Weighing in on the eternal question of the series: Reid's hair ;) I'm in the group who prefers it shorter and more tame (I don't even know if that's the popular or unpopular opinion by now), but I love it regardless.

From what I've seen, you seem to be in the majority on that opinion. I think I'm in the minority for liking his hair longer and messier (another reason I like season 5-I thought Reid's look that season was a good one :D). The messy hair, while clearly not FBI standard, fits well with his character, I think. And he just looks good with long hair. It frames his face well, I think. 

I do like his shorter hair, too, though, don't get me wrong. I just tend to prefer it more like it is in, say, the first part of season 4, or season 7. The way it looked in season 6 was a little too short for me. It makes me think of MGG in model mode more than it makes me think of Reid. 

Quote

By the way, my lovely mother wants me to "marry Reid." Aside from the tiny stumbling block of him being a fictional character rather than a real person, I broke the news that thousands of members of the online fandom had already called dibs. "Well, Hotch would make a wonderful husband too," she conceded. I'll let you guys know when we set the date ;) 

Ha, my mom and I were just talking about similar things the other day :D. She was watching with me and she was like, "You can marry Reid, I'll take Rossi."* :D. But yeah, your "dibs" comment-seriously, if the show ever does decide to try again at giving Reid a girlfriend that actually lasts, there's certainly no shortage of us viewers out there who'd happily volunteer for that role :p. 

*(Though I will say that when watching the "Wheels Up" episode, she kept commenting on how good Reid looked throughout.)

Edited December 27, 2017 by Annber03

[pumpkin]

my UO is that this show peaked seasons ago! They used to have fairly believable (if underwritten) FBI agents doing their jobs, solving a fascinating (if over the top) crime of the week using with fast paced profiler lingo and the occasional cute personal moment between the core cast members. 

Now Hotch is gone, Morgan is gone, Reid has been through the wringer and is almost unrecognizable, Garcia is super over the top and its not so cute, JJ traded in her humble head and compassion to become the token perfect blonde ice queen, Prentiss is so busy being Hotch that its like shes not even back (and yes shes always been an inconsistent enigma but she had a sparkle and I miss the sparkle), I'm luke-warm towards all the new characters, and everyone is always in everyones business! (Rossi is okay :) they sometimes do a cheesy old timer thing with him but I still like him at least he's consistent)

The show used to have a lot more subtly and a lot more showing not telling, now it feels like the writers don't really know what to do with/how to write for half of them. I really only watch the newer episodes because I've seen the old ones too many times!    

one more UO: like are we out of 'normal' serial killers? the crimes of the week have gotten pretty gimmicky 

[JMO]

1 hour ago, pumpkin said:

my UO is that this show peaked seasons ago! They used to have fairly believable (if underwritten) FBI agents doing their jobs, solving a fascinating (if over the top) crime of the week using with fast paced profiler lingo and the occasional cute personal moment between the core cast members. 

Now Hotch is gone, Morgan is gone, Reid has been through the wringer and is almost unrecognizable, Garcia is super over the top and its not so cute, JJ traded in her humble head and compassion to become the token perfect blonde ice queen, Prentiss is so busy being Hotch that its like shes not even back (and yes shes always been an inconsistent enigma but she had a sparkle and I miss the sparkle), I'm luke-warm towards all the new characters, and everyone is always in everyones business! (Rossi is okay :) they sometimes do a cheesy old timer thing with him but I still like him at least he's consistent)

The show used to have a lot more subtly and a lot more showing not telling, now it feels like the writers don't really know what to do with/how to write for half of them. I really only watch the newer episodes because I've seen the old ones too many times!    

one more UO: like are we out of 'normal' serial killers? the crimes of the week have gotten pretty gimmicky 

A quick perusal of this thread will tell you that it's hardly an unpopular opinion to think that the show peaked seasons ago.  I suspect that is true of any long-running show.  It takes a few seasons to hit its stride, stays there for a few, and then the creative people start moving on, the vision is lost  changed, and there is an effort made to keep things fresh by being 'different'.  I don't watch enough TV to know if any shows have been successful in reinvigorating the basic tenet, but I agree that CM has not been.

After that, I can't really agree.  Reid is grown up Reid, written (usually) with an appropriately earned wisdom and maturity, albeit with far less aftermath to last year's ordeal than that ordeal warranted.  Garcia has toned down since Morgan left, although not as much, or as consistently, as I would have liked.  I think Paget had some trouble finding Emily's footing when she returned as unit chief, but I see her taking the reins in her own way, now.  While I do think the actress was struggling to find the right note, I like to fanwank that Emily was struggling because she held Hotch up as her role model, but is, herself, a much more emotional and emotionally-driven individual.  I think she, and Paget, have been finding a way to reconcile the two in an authentic way, and I think the last few episodes are evidence of success.  I've never shared in the JJ hate.  I would agree if you'd said that the show missed a huge opportunity for us to watch her grow into her role as a profiler.  But I also realize she'd been profiling along with the team for years before actually taking on the title.  Smart people can do things like that, and she's never been portrayed as anything but smart.  I do think we've seen a return to the emphasis on her empathy for a few seasons running now.  

With two team members gone, it was inevitable that more would be recruited.  Since they'd retired the liaison position, I would have chosen to add only one more profiler.  Of the three on this season, I enjoy Luke the most, but realize that Tara brings a specific, and helpful, skill set to the table.  My personal favorite of all of them was Kate Callahan, both because of her personality (which would have brought some needed lightness without all the sexual innuendo, as between Garcia and Morgan) and because I think her background in human trafficking was perfect for a team built around capturing serial killers.  

[MMC]

1 hour ago, pumpkin said:

my UO is that this show peaked seasons ago! They used to have fairly believable (if underwritten) FBI agents doing their jobs, solving a fascinating (if over the top) crime of the week using with fast paced profiler lingo and the occasional cute personal moment between the core cast members. 

Now Hotch is gone, Morgan is gone, Reid has been through the wringer and is almost unrecognizable, Garcia is super over the top and its not so cute, JJ traded in her humble head and compassion to become the token perfect blonde ice queen, Prentiss is so busy being Hotch that its like shes not even back (and yes shes always been an inconsistent enigma but she had a sparkle and I miss the sparkle), I'm luke-warm towards all the new characters, and everyone is always in everyones business! (Rossi is okay :) they sometimes do a cheesy old timer thing with him but I still like him at least he's consistent)

The show used to have a lot more subtly and a lot more showing not telling, now it feels like the writers don't really know what to do with/how to write for half of them. I really only watch the newer episodes because I've seen the old ones too many times!    

one more UO: like are we out of 'normal' serial killers? the crimes of the week have gotten pretty gimmicky 

Your opinion is probably not as unpopular as you may think. My own personal thoughts are that TPTB probably should have brought in a new show runner a long with some new writers. I know a lot of people don't agree with me but I am convinced that EM never completely understood the original concept of the show as well as the characters themselves. Sadly I don't see them doing it this late in the game. And with both Hotch and Morgan being gone they really needed to up the ante when it came to the writing of this show to help make up for it somewhat. But from what I have been hearing it doesn't really sound like that is happening. 

Once upon a time CM was the only show on television I'd consider "must see TV". The fact is the show changed the way I started viewing other crime dramas such as Law and Order. I would watch a rerun from long ago and there'd be a particular scene I had seen a few times before, but this time it suddenly hit me that what they had been doing in that scene was profiling.

[Unkempt]

I'd say it's actually popular opinion to say the show peaked several seasons ago.  My opinion is that the events of season 6 kind of ruined the show, or at least damaged it for good.  It's definitely never been the same.

[pumpkin]

1 hour ago, JMO said:

A quick perusal of this thread will tell you that it's hardly an unpopular opinion to think that the show peaked seasons ago.  I suspect that is true of any long-running show.  

Haha fair enough :P

Maybe a more accurate thing to say would be an opinion I wish wasn't true and want to unpack further? Its true of most of the long running shows I've watched but CM held out quality wise for a pretty long time and had some team member shifts that were pretty smooth in the early seasons.  

1 hour ago, MMC said:

My own personal thoughts are that TPTB probably should have brought in a new show runner a long with some new writers. I know a lot of people don't agree with me but I am convinced that EM never completely understood the original concept of the show as well as the characters themselves. Sadly I don't see them doing it this late in the game. 

I would agree with this I think theres definitely been a concept shift in the show, and the characters, while not necessarily ever super well defined, used to feel like we were sort've getting to know them nonlinearly like you would with a friend. I guess my main issue now is they feel a little bit more like characters then like people :/ maybe im just having trouble suspending my disbelief what with all the changes that have been thrown there way since their original conception so to speak. 

1 hour ago, JMO said:

Reid is grown up Reid, written (usually) with an appropriately earned wisdom and maturity, albeit with far less aftermath to last year's ordeal than that ordeal warranted.  Garcia has toned down since Morgan left, although not as much, or as consistently, as I would have liked.  I think Paget had some trouble finding Emily's footing when she returned as unit chief, but I see her taking the reins in her own way, now.  While I do think the actress was struggling to find the right note, I like to fanwank that Emily was struggling because she held Hotch up as her role model, but is, herself, a much more emotional and emotionally-driven individual.  I think she, and Paget, have been finding a way to reconcile the two in an authentic way, and I think the last few episodes are evidence of success.  I've never shared in the JJ hate.  I would agree if you'd said that the show missed a huge opportunity for us to watch her grow into her role as a profiler.  But I also realize she'd been profiling along with the team for years before actually taking on the title.  Smart people can do things like that, and she's never been portrayed as anything but smart.  I do think we've seen a return to the emphasis on her empathy for a few seasons running now.  

 My main issue with Reid is in the they've always been okay throwing challenges his way, like the drug problem and his moms mental illness and being reunited with his father, etc but recently they've just been like lets have every bad thing possible happen to him. Gideon dies in a practically throw away episode, (though I will admit i loved seeing young Gideon/Rossi flash backs!) Morgan and Hotch leave (which shouldve been a big deal for him even though the writers sortve didnt give him room to be upset about it since its a casting thing more then a writing choice) Mauve is murdered in front of him and then he goes to jail for a while, Idk I just feel like they've really been giving him a hard time with out bounce back. I also feel like something is missing in the writing they've been doing for him, whether it be his previous dorky cheerfulness or a lack of show case of his intelligence I cant really put my finger on it. 

I'm not sure what I wanted to see out of Garcia, I was v nervous for her character when Morgan left because she has a lot less of an outlet, and her love hate thing with Luke highlighted rather then filled that hole for me. 

I hear what you're saying about Emily... it would be cool to see a little more of that reconciliation addressed you know? Like if she could have a seen with Rossi about how she doesn't have to be Hotch. I also think part of it is that with all the new cast members plus a crime of the week or seasonal arch or whatever theres not a ton of room for her to take off her boss face and be Emily, confidant and friend the way she used to be. 

I liked JJ in early seasons, I'm not really sure when I started to have animosity to her. It's not that I don't think she could profile, that shes not smart enough, or even the shark jumping with her being a covert ops super agent. I think its possible just to write it off the changes to her as the character having become jaded after everything she's been through, but she used to have this odd combination of a kind of humility and a kind of fire. And even more then empathy I would say she had a thoughtful common sense like in the midst of something terrible she would be the one to say to the family member 'have a seat, let me get you some water.' this was something born of the original concept that each member of the team had something unique to offer, and with out these aspects she feels a lot more interchangeable and unlikeable to me, or at least closed off. I think there would've been a way to give her that agent status without loosing that humility and mindfulness towards others that made her unique and toned down her 'mean girl'-ness. 

Also, ****SPOILER**** i really don't see her as a unit leader 

Edited February 18, 2018 by pumpkin

[JMO]

So, this may be an unpopular opinion, but I actually don't mind the challenges being thrown Reid's way.  To my mind, the character is a classic tragic hero, facing one dire situation after another, without being vanquished.  I do think they could write (and MGG could play) him as being a little less pathetic than they do (the lost boy facies, etc), and would enjoy them all focusing on his strengths a bit more.  While Reid has reacted to the losses of Gideon and Morgan (and, inexplicably, not Hotch), I don't see the moving on of any of those characters as being specific to Reid, so, apart from Gideon's murder, I don't consider them to be part of his tragic arc.

I think JJ has been portrayed as an extremely private person since the beginning of the show.  I like to think that stems from the small town fallout of having had a sister who committed suicide.  So, while I agree with you that she tends to keep her distance, I think it's entirely in character.  But I do agree that it was unnecessary for her to lose her empathy once she became a profiler, and I'm glad she's found it again.  I like to think that she was intimidated by her new role, and put up a tough exterior until she could accommodate to it.  

As I've been writing these replies, I've come to realize that it's the back stories I've created for them in my mind that help me continue to like these characters, and not necessarily what we see on screen.  Is that true for anyone else?

[normasm]

Yes, definitely, JMO, the undercurrents of the characters is what has kept me hooked on CM, and, in contrast, has made me gasp in alarm sometimes when writers and season arcs take those characters off course and threaten their integrity. Yes, they are just characters in a TV show, but they have been a staple in my life, and I like them to be plausibly growing, yet true to their original selves.

[Danielg342]

6 hours ago, JMO said:

As I've been writing these replies, I've come to realize that it's the back stories I've created for them in my mind that help me continue to like these characters, and not necessarily what we see on screen.  Is that true for anyone else?

I think it's probably why I haven't enjoyed these characters in such a long time. I go with what I see and don't extrapolate from what I don't- I fully expect the writer (or the actor) to properly establish a character trait or a story angle...I'm not going to do it for them. While I grant that, sometimes, in writing ambiguity and other things open for interpretation can be a good thing, doing it too much has a detriment to the show. At some point, I expect a payoff.

6 hours ago, pumpkin said:

My main issue with Reid is in the they've always been okay throwing challenges his way, like the drug problem and his moms mental illness and being reunited with his father, etc but recently they've just been like lets have every bad thing possible happen to him. Gideon dies in a practically throw away episode, (though I will admit i loved seeing young Gideon/Rossi flash backs!) Morgan and Hotch leave (which shouldve been a big deal for him even though the writers sortve didnt give him room to be upset about it since its a casting thing more then a writing choice) Mauve is murdered in front of him and then he goes to jail for a while, Idk I just feel like they've really been giving him a hard time with out bounce back. I also feel like something is missing in the writing they've been doing for him, whether it be his previous dorky cheerfulness or a lack of show case of his intelligence I cant really put my finger on it.

I can't disagree with you on this one- I think the amount of things they do with Reid is ridiculous. I boil it down to the fact that the show views Reid as "the girl"- in other words, the vulnerable, innocent, precocious one who serves as the team's "heart" and is often the one that they are most protective of (a role that Hollywood would usually reserve for women before the politically-correct 2010s). I understand that Garcia tends to serve this role too, but because Garcia is actually a woman and these days the Internet tends to howl if anything even remotely harmful is done to a woman on-screen, it leaves the writers little choice but to pile on the peril on to Reid.

Which I find disgusting in its own way. It's like the writers decided that "since we don't have an actual woman to abuse, let's abuse this guy who'd be a woman if this were any other decade!" So the writers do their worst to Reid, like throwing him in jail, beating him up, insinuating rape, taking his heart and stomping all over it, torturing him, etc. because Reid can provide the "shock value" of all those things happening to a woman without actually needing a woman for the role.

I shouldn't have to explain how wrong it is to be exploitative of Reid in that fashion, and I won't go into a screed about how bad the double standard is with regards to that exploitation and the resulting reaction to it.

What I will say is that I like to think audiences are savvy enough that we should be able to discern when it makes sense for the story to put any character- of any gender- in any kind of peril, including the worst possible abuses, and I think it's high time that the writers realize they can trouble the other characters for a change.

At this stage, I don't care how great Matthew Gray Gubler is at crying- I've had enough. Reid is almost forty...I think he's had enough drama in his life. Let's give him some happiness and let's give the other characters- who really need things to sink their teeth into- some real drama for a change.

[Blackbird999999lol]

11 hours ago, pumpkin said:

my UO is that this show peaked seasons ago! They used to have fairly believable (if underwritten) FBI agents doing their jobs, solving a fascinating (if over the top) crime of the week using with fast paced profiler lingo and the occasional cute personal moment between the core cast members. 

Now Hotch is gone, Morgan is gone, Reid has been through the wringer and is almost unrecognizable, Garcia is super over the top and its not so cute, JJ traded in her humble head and compassion to become the token perfect blonde ice queen, Prentiss is so busy being Hotch that its like shes not even back (and yes shes always been an inconsistent enigma but she had a sparkle and I miss the sparkle), I'm luke-warm towards all the new characters, and everyone is always in everyones business! (Rossi is okay :) they sometimes do a cheesy old timer thing with him but I still like him at least he's consistent)

The show used to have a lot more subtly and a lot more showing not telling, now it feels like the writers don't really know what to do with/how to write for half of them. I really only watch the newer episodes because I've seen the old ones too many times!    

one more UO: like are we out of 'normal' serial killers? the crimes of the week have gotten pretty gimmicky 

"Prentiss is so busy being Hotch that its like shes not even back ." THIS. She's back... and i'm still missing Prentiss terribly.

I don't see how JJ has become the "token perfect blonde ice queen". Ice queen? She's the heart of the team. JJ brings warmness to the show. We both agree on one thing: she's perfect :)

[BlackberryJam]

I’m relatively new to the show and came to this forum expecting to see more like minds, but apparently, my opinions are unpopular.

I find the show hilariously funny. The torture scenes aside, which are just silly, I get a giggle whenever someone says “We need to deliver the profile” as if they are about to bestow a gift of great value. The profile is always useless to those whom it is delivered. The only people who use the profile are the profilers themselves. The profile never helps local law enforcement solve their own crimes. Other than exposition for the audience, every profile delivery is useless to the character listeners. But they deliver it so earnestly.

Hotch and Rossi are Bert and Ernie. 

I wanted Gideon to have a Six Fingered Man episode.

I despise how they apply Garcia’s lipstick outside the her lip line to make her look even more ridiculous. 

I love stunt casting for the serial killers.

I’d like JJ much more if she weren’t wearing eleven pounds of makeup which is supposed to look like no makeup at all.

Prentiss is fun and so was Blake.

Kate/JLH’s ‘tough’ scenes made me giggle.

Morgan was such a cliche but Shemar Moore worked hard to sell those “I’ve been where you are, man” scenes. I wanted to put a gold star by his name and give him a lollipop.

I started watching the show because of MGG’s amusing tweets, so I have a soft spot for him.

This show is drinking game gold and that’s why I find it so ridiculously fun. I kind of what it to continue forever with even more hilarious reasons why people become serial killers. “My waiter failed to refill my water glass twice, now I am compelled to drown all waiters!”

[Annber03]

1 hour ago, BlackberryJam said:

Hotch and Rossi are Bert and Ernie. 

Okay, this thought entertains me greatly :D. 

[Danielg342]

2 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

I’m relatively new to the show and came to this forum expecting to see more like minds, but apparently, my opinions are unpopular.

I find the show hilariously funny. The torture scenes aside, which are just silly, I get a giggle whenever someone says “We need to deliver the profile” as if they are about to bestow a gift of great value. The profile is always useless to those whom it is delivered. The only people who use the profile are the profilers themselves. The profile never helps local law enforcement solve their own crimes. Other than exposition for the audience, every profile delivery is useless to the character listeners. But they deliver it so earnestly.

Hotch and Rossi are Bert and Ernie. 

I wanted Gideon to have a Six Fingered Man episode.

I despise how they apply Garcia’s lipstick outside the her lip line to make her look even more ridiculous. 

I love stunt casting for the serial killers.

I’d like JJ much more if she weren’t wearing eleven pounds of makeup which is supposed to look like no makeup at all.

Prentiss is fun and so was Blake.

Kate/JLH’s ‘tough’ scenes made me giggle.

Morgan was such a cliche but Shemar Moore worked hard to sell those “I’ve been where you are, man” scenes. I wanted to put a gold star by his name and give him a lollipop.

I started watching the show because of MGG’s amusing tweets, so I have a soft spot for him.

This show is drinking game gold and that’s why I find it so ridiculously fun. I kind of what it to continue forever with even more hilarious reasons why people become serial killers. “My waiter failed to refill my water glass twice, now I am compelled to drown all waiters!”

[Danielg342]

To expand on my previous post (I was at work, couldn't write much), @BlackberryJam, it's, uh, funny you mention how hilarious the show is when I miss the days this show was actually more of a "dramedy" than what it is now. There was a time- in S1 especially- where the writers would mix in jokes and humourous asides seamlessly, almost the way The Orville does now and I truly miss that aspect of the show. It's sad that now the characters seem so less real than when they started out- then the team were actual people, but now they just feel like robots.

Your observations are extremely spot on- I would agree with most. I especially enjoyed Hotch and Rossi being compared to Bert and Ernie- the two of them had that chemistry and the writers wasted it. I also wish Gideon could have faced off against the Six-Fingered Man again, though there's hope- Christopher Guest is still alive.

(Except for the whole Gideon is dead thing...but Miracle Max is still a thing, right?)

[BlackberryJam]

1 hour ago, Danielg342 said:

To expand on my previous post (I was at work, couldn't write much), @BlackberryJam, it's, uh, funny you mention how hilarious the show is when I miss the days this show was actually more of a "dramedy" than what it is now. There was a time- in S1 especially- where the writers would mix in jokes and humourous asides seamlessly, almost the way The Orville does now and I truly miss that aspect of the show. It's sad that now the characters seem so less real than when they started out- then the team were actual people, but now they just feel like robots.

Your observations are extremely spot on- I would agree with most. I especially enjoyed Hotch and Rossi being compared to Bert and Ernie- the two of them had that chemistry and the writers wasted it. I also wish Gideon could have faced off against the Six-Fingered Man again, though there's hope- Christopher Guest is still alive.

(Except for the whole Gideon is dead thing...but Miracle Max is still a thing, right?)

I don't know if I could ever see them as even remotely realistic. If this were a show say like the first season of Murder One in which we followed the team tracking one serial killer over the course of a season, then it might be slightly like watching real people. As it is, it's just so unbelievable and silly and a ridiculous amount of fun.

Everything from the overwrought quotes bookending an episode to the overly dramatic "talk down" of the "UnSub." By the way, one of my favorite drinking game aspects is when they refer to the killer as the "UnSub" AFTER they have figured out who it is. 

Reid: Garcia has narrowed down the suspect list using databases that do not exist and finding records on line which are only on non-internet systems or still in paper files. It looks like our UnSub is Chesterbertling Snergfordenmcshire and Garcia has send his address to Hotch and Morgan without using any sort of email, messaging or other client or app that would allow her to do so.

Ten minutes later.

Morgan: We're right outside the UnSub's house

Only how is Chesterbertling Snergfordenmcshire an Unknown Subject if they know his name and are parked outside his house?

A drink for every use of the term UnSub, two drinks for every time the term UnSub is explained and a shot for each time the known and named suspect is called the UnSub. Drinking game GOLD!

[Nordly Beaumont]

On 2/21/2018 at 8:37 PM, BlackberryJam said:

Chesterbertling Snergfordenmcshire

Don't forget to drink when someone calls Garcia and gives her such a name, and she knows how to spell it correctly!

[Danielg342]

23 hours ago, Nordly Beaumont said:

Don't forget to drink when someone calls Garcia and gives her such a name, and she knows how to spell it correctly!

Add another one if it's a name that doesn't have an "obvious" spelling, like Jeffrey or Stephen.