superman1204 June 12, 2014 Share June 12, 2014 (edited) While everyone up thread did a pretty good job of picking apart this episode, there is still one thing that bothers me. If Amy was trying to hurt Karma, why did she have to sleep with Lima to do it? The previous seven episodes, showed us that the girls are super close, so why not have Amy's actions reflect that, instead of going with a generic attempt to steal her friend's boyfriend/crush/fuck-toy. They could have: a) Had Amy say something that emotionally destroyed Karma, because she knows Karma so well, she would know exactly what button to push if she wanted to make Karma fall apart without actually doing anything. b) Had Amy get drunk, fight with her mother, basically self destruct, while Karma was watching. I was thinking a repeat of the bridal shower except instead of amusing it would be painful to watch. My thought is that if Amy wanted to hurt Karma, all she has to do is self destruct and let Karma beat herself up over it, because despite all the stupid shit Karma has done, she clearly cares about Amy more than anyone else. c) Had the two girls simply exchange looks that suggest that there friendship is over and left it at that. Because half of what has made the show so good is the performances of the leads, particularly Rita. Also having a little subtlety in a season finale might actually be considered new and fresh, at least for MTV. Basically anything that focused on the two girls, not the two girls' relationship to Liam, would have been an improvement and less of a weird tonal shift. Also a final scene that showed how upset/hurt/angry Amy was and at the same time emphasized how close the two girls had been, would have had more emotional impact than the actual ending, IMHO. And one last thing, Amy is impulsive and tends to act out, since when does that make her a vindictive bitch who tries to steal someone's boyfriend? Edited June 12, 2014 by superman1204 Link to comment
wayne67 June 12, 2014 Share June 12, 2014 This is the problem that happens to story lines that truncate their middles in order to skip to the dramatic conclusion of their plot, it leaves audience confused and feeling cheated. Not just the Amy sleeps with Liam for some inexplicable reason while drunk but also the Lauren getting dumped by Tommy for whatever pills she's taking. I'm hoping it means they'll circle back in season 2 and show a flash back to the middle parts now that they know they have more 20 seconds to instill a crazy dramatic cliff hanger that will keep fans talking for the year hiatus and tune in to see what happens next. Not that I necessarily agree with that writing choice, much like I hate how promos or shows start off with a character trying to kill another character, life being in danger and then get a 12 hours earlier subtitle thing forcing you to watch to find out what the hell is going on. Though I'm still way more curious to see what pills would cause Tommy to break up with her than about Liam and his sex life drama. Here's my head canon for how Amy and Liam jumped from Amy drunk and seeing Liam to being in bed together. Amy sees Liam standing there drunk outside her house after she has a heartbreaking talk with Karma essentially saying she is simply not into her and also by the by she completely had a life altering monumental event happen to her a WEEK AGO and never bothered to tell her. Namely losing her virginity to the most popular guy at school Liam Booker (which I still don't understand at all) after lying and manipulating the entire school for popularity points to get his approval and affection. Amy goes over to Liam in a rage and hits him with her handbag (a belt buckly handbag borrowed from her Grandma including her flask) as she was originally planning on going to the local playground where Karma and her first meet and become besties and getting thoroughly trashed to numb the pain as the waitress cut her off earlier. "hey, why are you hitting me " Liam slurs "This is all your fault, Karma and me were inseperable, we did everything together, she was mine and all I've heard for the last month is Liam Booker this and Liam Booker that and I'm so sick of your stupid face and your stupid name. How could you sleep with her? She's my girlfriend! " Amy screams through tears. "Shane told me that Karma was faking being a lesbian this entire time, so you were her fake girlfriend and when I thought you were girlfriends, she said we could have a threesome and then she lied about you being okay with us dating so we both got screwed here." Amy slaps him furious and heart broken. Liam being no stranger to girls slapping him usually after calling him a douche bag for leading them on when he took great pains to be upfront and honest about his intentions from the start is not surprised about being blamed. It always seemed to be his fault no matter what he did, he didn't get women, maybe he should take up Shane on his long standing offer to try gay sex, maybe that would be less complicated. "Why does she want you, you're not that great, she could have me, I've known her for years, I know everything about her and you didn't even want her until you thought she was a lesbian. God I hate you" and in a quiet whisper "and her too" "I'm not having a great night either you know, your best friend has been lying to me for weeks now, I've fallen in love with her thinking she was great, honest, adventurous, in an open relationship with a girl which seemed so cool. I should have realised when that threesome got so weird and now I can't believe anything she's ever said to me and I told her things I haven't even told Shane my best friend and I thought we had connected and fuck it I need more alcohol." Amy seeing it from Liam's point of view realises they have something in common they are both in love with Karma and completely lost as to what to do about it, that and they are probably 5 minutes away from getting caught illegally drinking outside her house by her mother, grandmother or possibly even the police.Time to have a drunk cry fest in her room and hopefully not have to deal with the aftermath of dealing with Karma post lesbian confession. Amy passes Liam the flask, rethinking the wisdom of drinking alone in a park in the dark "Here, I'm going to my room, good night" "Do you think I could crash in your room, Shane is still with Pablo and I think he's going to be busy all night and my parents will kill me if they find out I've been drinking again. " "I don't think that's a good idea" "But I'll sleep on the floor and now i know porn has lied to me all this time about lesbians and you're a real lesbian and Karma was faking it and oh god my head hurts. Shit I need a shower to sober up." 'Fine whatever if you try anything Lauren will smack you over the head with a tennis racquet she's just across the hall" Amy sneaks Liam upstairs so he can use the shower, its fairly easy as everyone is still downstairs getting thoroughly drunk and eating cake . It was a good cake, lovely frosting. She puts on her singlet and boxer shorts while Liam takes a shower feeling ready for this day to be over, with her mom's wedding to husband 4 and Karma telling her that her love wasn't reciprocated and Liam taking her virginity. This day could not end soon enough for her liking. She falls asleep but wakes when Liam walks in in boxers toweling off, it's weird seeing him in his underwear they never got that far in their faux threesome, it reminds her of her crush on the lifeguard who saved her life when she was 12 who looked so strong and capable and then some point she just got over it. Liam looked good but she didn't feel anything for him, other than a mild curiosity about why she felt a little something for him when they kissed but nothing when she kissed Oliver. Her head started to hurt just thinking about it and her stomach wasn't feeling great she went off to the bathroom to be sick. When she got back Liam was lying in his boxers shifting around uncomfortably. "So what was it like?" "What?" "Having sex with Karma" Amy couldn't help herself she wanted to know "Um it was good, I thought it meant something, wrapped in our own little bubble of love in the art studio but apparently I was her secret toy boy the entire time kind of depressing. People suck" "Couldn't agree more, I've been her best friend for years and she called me a sex addict practically to the entire school" "karma is a bitch" "that's the second time I've heard that joke today" "Sorry, I know she's your best friend and all and there's a girl code or something but I'm curious Shane says that you just realised you were into Karma when you kissed and then he said something about you thinking i kiss like a butterfly or something" Amy shifts away into the dark "I don't know I thought I was a lesbian but then it seemed to only work for Karma and then when I tried to kiss Jasmine and Oliver it didn't feel much like anything, you're the only one other than Karma that got a reaction and I think it's only because Karma talked about how awesome you were . I don't know it was better than I expected, though I have no idea what that means either." "So you might be bi then? bi chicks are hot too" "I have no idea any more, it's all so confusing and it's not like I've ever had sex with a guy or a girl so all i have to go on are kisses at the moment and the results of my kissing experiments have been all over the map . " "Well as Shane once told me 'if you're ever want to try out being with a guy ever let me know' " "Um thanks I guess but aren't you and Karma dating" "Well no, for starters we never went on a date and Karma has basically kept me a secret the entire time to everyone. Anyway I'm done with her after finding out about how she lied, I cant stand liars I get enough of that as is" "i'm so going to regret this in the morning but if you want you can come into the bed and we could practise some kissing maybe that'll get our minds off Karma" and things progress quickly from there. eww I think I just wrote hetero fan fic, though I'm not sure if it counts since it appears to be canon that Liam and Amy are going to have sex. Just my interpretation of what potentially could have happened off screen to make this drunken sex more realistic. Link to comment
dohe June 12, 2014 Share June 12, 2014 While everyone up thread did a pretty good job of picking apart this episode, there is still one thing that bothers me. If Amy was trying to hurt Karma, why did she have to sleep with Lima to do it? The previous seven episodes, showed us that the girls are super close, so why not have Amy's actions reflect that, instead of going with a generic attempt to steal her friend's boyfriend/crush/fuck-toy. They could have: a) Had Amy say something that emotionally destroyed Karma, because she knows Karma so well, she would know exactly what button to push if she wanted to make Karma fall apart without actually doing anything. b) Had Amy get drunk, fight with her mother, basically self destruct, while Karma was watching. I was thinking a repeat of the bridal shower except instead of amusing it would be painful to watch. My thought is that if Amy wanted to hurt Karma, all she has to do is self destruct and let Karma beat herself up over it, because despite all the stupid shit Karma has done, she clearly cares about Amy more than anyone else. c) Had the two girls simply exchange looks that suggest that there friendship is over and left it at that. Because half of what has made the show so good is the performances of the leads, particularly Rita. Also having a little subtlety in a season finale might actually be consider new and fresh, at least for MTV. Basically anything that focused on the two girls, not the two girls' relationship to Liam, would have been an improvement and less of a weird tonal shift. Also a final scene that showed how upset/hurt/angry Amy was and at the same time emphasized how close the two girls had been, would have had more emotional impact than the actual ending, IMHO. And one last thing, Amy is impulsive and tends to act out, since when does that make her a vindictive bitch who tries to steal someone's boyfriend? Great points. Those sequences would have made an impact and it would have been an organic impact not just a here we go again impact. Link to comment
JaM June 12, 2014 Share June 12, 2014 (edited) @superman1204 Problem with this theory - Karma was already gone, she left once Liam broke up with her. If they wanted to go the way that Amy sleeps with somebody on that wedding, Liam was the only viable option - caterers were not teenagers but adults, no sane adult would sleep with drunk teenage girl.. Amy had no chance to meet any lesbian on that wedding (in the end, all those were family friends), while even if she called Jasmine, it would take some time for her to get there.. plus, her purpose was already revealed, I don't believe they will bring her back in season 2. I have read Ellen's review and I agree there were other options to end the season with. Yet, what we all don't know, is the master-plan Carter had the whole time for this series. Problem with TV shows is that they don't know how long they will air, you shoot one season and hope numbers are great so you get second one or third one.. This is the reason why sometimes series end up with controversial endings - their authors didn't got a chance to finish the story as they wanted. Carter made a risk with Faking it, he believed he would get more seasons to finish this story. That was the reason why he ended things like he did. Yes, it is somehow unfair to fans, if the show would be not renewed, but from long term perspective, this season had clearly set goal - Amy coming out to Karma. Speeding up this story would just make it shallow. I understand a lot of lesbian fans are angry for such ending, personally I would like to see Amy end up happy, she was nicest person during the whole season, but bad things always happen to good people, especially if they let them. I just hope Carter will get enough of time to finish this properly. Nothing would be worse than ending this story somewhere in the middle, so all fans would have to guess how it could have end one day... Really hope I will see Amy and Karma happy (together as a couple) in the last episode of the series. Edited June 12, 2014 by maraleia to capitalize the word I- this is always the case FYI Link to comment
Shan June 12, 2014 Share June 12, 2014 Well, I guess if the show had been cancelled they could always have spent a bit of money to film a short coda for the DVD set which would have been the "supermarket" or "grocery store" ending set years later, which could have been a relatively dark way to end the show with once best friends having fallen out and barely acknowledging each other in a chance encounter in the future. Link to comment
Misty79 June 12, 2014 Share June 12, 2014 Well I'm joining this thread pretty late but I just wanted to say, as painful as the misstep in the last episode was, I am ever so thankful for the character of Amy. Not just because she's probably queer, but because she's one of the most interesting, nuanced characters I've come across in a teen show in a very long time. I presume Rita Volk has a lot to do with this based on a few interviews I've seen, where she came across as a very bright person. But the writers deserve their due too. Whatever her sexuality turns out to be I'd happily watch any old show with Amy in it. Link to comment
LoneHaranguer June 12, 2014 Share June 12, 2014 Seriously, if I'm Amy and I see Liam up against that fence, my first thought is going to be "you asshole". If I notice Karma's not with him, my second thought will be "where's Karma?" If I notice Liam seems upset, my next thought will be "OMG, something happened to Karma! We had this stupid fight and now Karma got hit by a bus and it's ALL MY FAULT!" If Liam tells me they fought (although he doesn't seem like talking), I'm probably going to think "she couldn't deny her feelings any longer! I have to be with her!" before Liam gives me all the details, if I let him. I think the first thing Liam would say would be an apology to Amy, leading into telling her that he broke up with Karma, and some bonding over their mutual dislike over how Karma's been acting. Amy was drunk enough for Liam to offer help getting inside, which Amy would accept. I really wish the bedroom scene had made it clear what followed was (an impulsive) Amy's idea. 1 Link to comment
DAngelus June 12, 2014 Share June 12, 2014 (edited) I understand a lot of lesbian fans are angry for such ending Presuming that those angry at the ending are "lesbian fans" is offensive in its assumptions, condescending (it implies that fans' reactions are a function of our gender/sexuality, and if it weren't for those biases we'd be "calm enough" to give Carter and his "plan" a chance), and in at least one case I can think of, willfully ignorant of information you've already been given. (dohe has stated that he is a gay man, for example.) Please don't do this. As for Carter and his endlessly-excused "plan": to paraphase something dohe wrote, creators can tell any story they want. But that doesn't make it a good story, nor does it mean that one part is logically following from another. Covington pitched this show as a story about Karma and Amy, their real friendship, their fake relationship (hence the title of the show), and whatever the future may hold for them. But he is slowly and surely turning this into The Hottie Doucheface Show, with Liam popping the girls' cherries like they were bubble wrap, one after the other, being a consistent asshole and facing zero consequences for it, getting to leave Karma in tears without one word being said back to him, and getting Amy's virginity as a special bonus gift. (The fact that Sulkin's inability to do an American accent has crippled what few acting skills he might have isn't helping things, either.) The borderline offensive and homophobic premise (girls fake lesbianism for popularity! Gee, treating an oppressed minority like a commodity to be appropriated, I haven't been this entertained since Soul Man where C. Thomas Howell took "black pills" to get that scholarship to Harvard!) would only be redeemable if we got a homo-positive storyline out of it…instead we get "Karma is STRAIGHT, Amy might be gay but she's gonna ride a lot of dick (Covington has said that this won't be the end of Amy's involvement with men), and no woman could ever resist Liam, because, hey, have you seen Gregg Sulkin?" Fuck that. And "Stick around, I have a plan" is no response to "Fuck that", because a good showrunner's plan would involve keeping the audience from ever reaching the "Fuck that" place. Which is where I am, which is why I'm not coming back. There's too much TV out there to waste time on this. JMO. And I'm so tired of the "well, Amy's impulsive, so it's not impossible she'd do this" defense. "Not impossible" is a pretty low bar to excuse crappy writing. It's not impossible that Amy would make a pass at Lauren, it's not impossible that she would slit her wrists, it's not impossible that she'd grab Farrah's keys and run away (despite apparently not having her driver's license)…hell, it's "not impossible" that she would spontaneously combust. All of those are nowhere as offensive as "self-identified lesbian teen throws herself at her best friend's boyfriend", and all of them (bar perhaps the spontaneous combustion) are more likely. Hey, Amy's relatives are all over the house, right? And Liam's wearing his catering outfit…do you think people might just wonder why Amy is taking a cater waiter upstairs? Nah, let's skip past the practical difficulties of sneaking a boy upstairs and things like that…every lesbo must get boned! Edited June 12, 2014 by DAngelus 2 Link to comment
theshepherd June 12, 2014 Share June 12, 2014 (edited) Hey, Amy's relatives are all over the house, right? And Liam's wearing his catering outfit…do you think people might just wonder why Amy is taking a cater waiter upstairs? Nah, let's skip past the practical difficulties of sneaking a boy upstairs and things like that…every lesbo must get boned! This so much! The fact that anyone is still defending this is so confusing to me! There is just another way. No disrespect to the (well written) fan fiction earlier but how about just no. Just no. Let Amy not spiral out of control, why can't she just be rational and hurt. I know it's not the most entertaining outcome but this was so obviously done to sucker you in to see what happens next. I really want the joke to be on him when no one does, alas the draw of two pretty girls in a ship will always win us over...no matter how trite it is. Edited June 13, 2014 by theshepherd Link to comment
wayne67 June 12, 2014 Share June 12, 2014 I find it fascinating how many people seem willing to give up on a show they liked based on a 20 second season finale they don't agree with. If only I could have given up on all those shows who went through an entire sophomore season slump as easily. Or Glee and it's complete downturn from about season 2 and its multiple character assassinations as of late in season whatever its up to that I'm still watching for some reason I can't even justify to myself. As to how Liam got past the relatives, I have two thoughts on that, the adults were drinking and eating cake and therefore didn't care about the activities of teenagers (which is the only way I can excuse how they both got so drunk at a party filled with adults). Secondly depending on the way Amy took him upstairs, they could have merely assumed she was taking the cater waiter looking guy to the upstairs bathroom since the downstairs one was occupied by a vomiting drunk uncle or whatever. It's not like Amy expressed any interest in any boys previous to this episode so as far as her relatives are concerned it's unlikely their first thought is Amy is off to go have a drunken one night stand with a boy let's stop her. My biggest logistic problem with this scenario is where did the boys get the cater waiter outfits that fit them so well from exactly? Off the back of the catering truck, did they look up the caterer for Amy's wedding on such short notice and find a exact duplicate of the outfit? These are the questions that keep me up at night, how the hell do I sneak into a place with free alcohol and snag me a good looking suit in the process. Not just because she's probably queer, but because she's one of the most interesting, nuanced characters I've come across in a teen show in a very long time. I presume Rita Volk has a lot to do with this based on a few interviews I've seen, where she came across as a very bright person. But the writers deserve their due too.Whatever her sexuality turns out to be I'd happily watch any old show with Amy in it. Thank you Misty79 it's nice to see someone can appreciate the character beyond what her sexuality is at the time. Amy is awesome and entertaining and likeable which is a lot more than I can say about most protagonists in today's tv shows, who are often tedious and abusive or simply stupid as 2 short planks. And "Stick around, I have a plan" is no response to "Fuck that", because a good showrunner's plan would involve keeping the audience from ever reaching the "Fuck that" place. Which is where I am, which is why I'm not coming back. There's too much TV out there to waste time on this. JMO. If showrunners managed to offend noone it'd be an epic achievement, people's enjoyment of the same show is vastly different and some people will love a character for a quality others find insufferable. Game of Thrones is an excellent example of that, some people hate Dany as a princess who gets everything her way and others love her for her take charge attitude and her moralistic viewpoint in freeing slaves when other rulers are burning or flaying people alive. As for a showrunner having to run past plots through their audience prior to airing. I doubt that would ever happen in regards to a specific segment of audience. Then again I guess since you won't be watching season 2 there's probably no real point in discussing the merits of seeing the end of a story before rushing to judgement about its value. JMO of course YMMV 2 Link to comment
LoneHaranguer June 12, 2014 Share June 12, 2014 Secondly depending on the way Amy took him upstairs, they could have merely assumed she was taking the cater waiter looking guy to the upstairs bathroom since the downstairs one was occupied by a vomiting drunk uncle or whatever. Very likely they would have figured the "waiter" was helping her get upstairs. Assuming it was a reputable catering company, nobody would have seen any impropriety in that. Link to comment
theshepherd June 13, 2014 Share June 13, 2014 I find it fascinating how many people seem willing to give up on a show they liked based on a 20 second season finale they don't agree with. If only I could have given up on all those shows who went through an entire sophomore season slump as easily. Or Glee and it's complete downturn from about season 2 and its multiple character assassinations as of late in season whatever its up to that I'm still watching for some reason I can't even justify to myself. What I don't understand is how you can have such optimism and be actively watch Glee? I still don't get how people think this is about 'Amy' and her sexuality and where the writer is taking it? This is not about Amy, or Karma nor Liam. This is about the trope. The same old sliding scale sexuality that all females must have when navigating the confusing waters of sexuality. They must always slip-slide onto a penis. That's it. It's not about his vision - it's about false promises of something new. This is NOT new. It's old. It's so old, it's molded and nearly decaying. I'm not giving up on this show, this show gave up when it rested on it's laurels instead of being innovative. The reason why I cannot continue myself is because the show has nothing new to offer me. I won't sit through another Glee, eating up crumbs until I'm full. Maybe it's because I'm gay, maybe I'm a little ticked off that on TV my sexuality is always realized after riding the baloney pony. When that is not the case all the time. Maybe I'm just sick of seeing the girl get the girl after a season of angst and confusion. I think this show would have been much more entertaining if one of them was already out and the other played along since they were already so close.That way none of this even had to occur. I wish please stop with 'it's for the drama' schpill, it's played out. Just saying. And lastly, fandom. That's what keeps people coming back for more. To see what happens next, well me personally I don't tolerate someone who belittles me in real life. When I've had enough of your 'antics' I either distance myself or cut you out completely. The same goes for this show. I don't play games - you're in or you're out. Faking it, is out. And I guess maybe Amy? Don't ask Rita or Carter - they haven't worked out the details yet. They kind of remind me of the scarecrow from the Wizard of Oz. "OZ is thatta' way!", they say while pointing in opposite directions. 1 Link to comment
wayne67 June 13, 2014 Share June 13, 2014 (edited) What I don't understand is how you can have such optimism and be actively watch Glee? I don't know either, the show is a complete train wreck but it occasionally has an amusing moment of 'this is so terrible it's actually kind of funny in a dark stupid way' and other times its because they do a sometimes entertaining cover of a popular song, or an interesting mash up. Its been years though since they've had any decent character arcs for any of the characters side or main but I guess I keep a sliver of hope that maybe it'll go back to being actually interesting instead of ironic trainwreck interesting. I guess when it comes to this show its provided 155 minutes of entertainment and about 5 minutes of character wtfery (shane outing 'lesbians' against their will, Shane unveilling someone else's medication habits in front of that person, Amy having sex with Liam even though they've barely interacted the entire season and she'd be understandably pissed hearing his name after Karma's apparent constant mentioning of him and basing most of her actions on his approval so having sex with him was a total 0 to 180 moment character and action wise. There was also Karma calling her best friend a sex addict to the school reporter and offering up Amy without her permission in some stupid threesome idea ). However the show has been 95% pure comedic gold in unusually poignant character moments and Amy being an adorable protagonist so I'm willing to give it some slack for now. If Season 2 devolves into some weird hetero/lesbian 3 way polygon of dysfunction with Liam and Amy both love/hating Karma (with all of them having sex but the girls) I'll probably check out and then I'll probably write some angry rants about wasted potential and tired old tropes. Love triangles are so played out. I want some more wacky hijinks with adults included. Amy's mom finding out about the Liam sex and flipping out, Karma's mom finding out about her lying about her sexuality in some twisted attempt to be 'cool'. Amy's Grandma being amusingly drunk and bitter for 5 minutes. Fleshing out more of these characters lives a bit, Shane's college ex's, Amy's father and 2? stepfathers, Lauren and her mother, Karma and her brother. Thank you theshepherd for so many entertaining euphemisms for male/female intercourse. Now I have to find a way to include baloney pony into a sentence at work for amusement factor. Edited June 13, 2014 by wayne67 1 Link to comment
ybrik June 13, 2014 Share June 13, 2014 When it comes to shows we can have all have our blindspots. Hell I went through six seasons of Smallville believing that it would eventually stop being all about Lana (what the hell is it with characters with names starting with L that seem to be really annoying on shows I like? Lana, Laurel, Liam) and would finally start real character growth. Of course by season 7 I was all fuck it. I do wonder who will find out about them first. I kind of hope it is Farrah because I can see this being the one person outside of Karma who Amy would least want to know. Hopefully it would lead to them having a real conversation. Man this thread keeps going and going. I doubt there will be another episode thread this long for this show again. Honestly I hope I am wrong. Link to comment
LoneHaranguer June 13, 2014 Share June 13, 2014 I do wonder who will find out about them first. I kind of hope it is Farrah because I can see this being the one person outside of Karma who Amy would least want to know. Do you mean as in Farrah walks in on Liam and Amy, or that Liam gets to check off "lesbian" on his scorecard and Farrah finds out what happened later? There's still time for Liam to turn out to be too drunk to perform. Link to comment
superman1204 June 13, 2014 Share June 13, 2014 Do you mean as in Farrah walks in on Liam and Amy, or that Liam gets to check off "lesbian" on his scorecard and Farrah finds out what happened later? There's still time for Liam to turn out to be too drunk to perform. I am hoping for something along those lines. Either Liam is too drunk for Little Liam to get the job done, Amy has some revelation about what a shitty thing she is doing maybe after seeing the stars on her ceiling, or that Amy is a straight lesbian and tells Liam to get the fuck off her because she isn't turned on. Not that any of those things would fix how they ended the season, but it might make me less annoyed going into season 2. Link to comment
LoneHaranguer June 13, 2014 Share June 13, 2014 Not that any of those things would fix how they ended the season, but it might make me less annoyed going into season 2. It could be humorous if Nana starts to open the wrong door while looking for the bathroom and doesn't see anything, but it's enough to derail things. I can fanwank all of the way to them being in the room together, but not to that final scene, so I hope there's a reasonable (in-character) explanation forthcoming next season. Link to comment
possibilities June 13, 2014 Share June 13, 2014 I'm sure we can all come up with a lot of ways to backtrack from what the show set up with the final scene. Amy was naked, Liam was lying on top of her, her nails are digging into his back. Okay... so the alcohol got the best of her and she puked all over herself and he helped her upstairs and cleaned her up and got her into bed. Then, being drunk himself, he stumbled and fell on top of her by accident. Then someone walked in and Amy dug her nails into his back because she was startled. But seriously, the scenarios get more and more far-fetched and tortured, because it's clear both from the episode and from Covington's interview statements, what they wanted us all to think was happening when they shot it. And nothing will undo that. I would rather they backtrack from it, even if it's clearly a retcon due to external pressure, but the fact remains that they thought it was a great idea to provoke the audience with offensive cliches and they are untrustworthy, uninspired hacks. 1 Link to comment
KN2Blue June 14, 2014 Share June 14, 2014 I'm pretty late to the party and at this point everything that needs to be said has already been said so I won't repeat any of the excellent arguments about why that ending was so offensive. I'd just like to add that I also thought it was very bad storytelling and completely took me out of the narrative and I'm less likely to trust the show going forward. Maybe it's me but it just doesn't seem plausible that Amy would sleep with Liam just because she was drunk, upset or wanted to hurt Karma. Frankly, if that was the direction the show wanted to take, I think there could have been some foreshadowing earlier in the season that Amy had it in her to act so irresponsibly toward her friendship with Karma. But no, for the first seven episodes, she was totally under Karma's thrall and kept doing things she was uncomfortable with in order to please her. And now I'm supposed to believe that the first opportunity she has, she's going to sleep with Karma's boyfriend? It doesn't ring true to me and there's nothing I hate more in a show than when characters behave in a manner that seems inconsistent to the character. Amy has never shown any interest in Liam. Even during the threesome, it didn't come across like she was interested in him, so I just can't see them jumping into bed together. I know TV shows like to make it seem like everyone is just a couple of drinks away from sleeping with other characters, but in real life people can and are often a little more judicious. The scene just came out of nowhere and the fact that we didn't see any of the lead-up to the actual sex scene just made it so much more ridiculous and clearly a plot contrivance so next season we can have the shadow of that action hanging over the Amy/Karma relationship. Frankly if Carter Covington wanted to write Amy as still exploring her sexual identity, there was that other guy she could very well have slept with (I forget his name and I don't feel like looking it up). Yes it may not have increased any of the tension between Amy and Karma, but it would have been more realistic since he's appeared a couple of times and Amy (in an offhand way), has been shown to be somewhat compatible with him or interested in treating him as a backup alternative. I would rather she'd called him up and had a fling with him, instead of the Liam scene. Instead, next season we're probably going to see the drama ramped up between the two, and I'm in no mood to sit through fake drama just for the sake of a show. This more than anything else is why I may not return to the show. I'm probably more tolerant of the lesbian sleeps with a guy storyline than I am of bad storytelling so this is close to being a deal breaker. I may watch one or two episodes next season, but right now this show seems to be headed toward my "time to chuck it list." 1 Link to comment
wayne67 June 14, 2014 Share June 14, 2014 My ideal scenario would probaby be Karma alone because she's been a fairly terrible friend to Amy for basically the entirety of the show and judging solely by her actions this season I'd like her to find some motivation in life other getting other peoples attention. Liam to hook up with Shane while remaining straight, solely because that's never been done as far as I can recall except possibly Tony and his misadventure with Maxxie (though that was a one off) . As far as Amy I'd have her move on from the whole Karma thing and explore something with Jasmine ? the coffee date girl and see if that goes anywhere. I doubt any of that will happen Amy and Karma will probably bounce back in and out of love with each other while Liam plays the third wheel in their melodrama. I know I was saying before that I was optimistic about where season 2 would head but from interviews about future direction it's looking way more iffy that it'll continue to be of the same quality. Sophomore slump perhaps. On the upside I did like how the show in season 1 explored the unintended consequences of romantic entanglements even when that wasn't the original goal. Amy with disappointing Oliver repeatedly, kissing Jasmine randomly, the whole debacle with Liam. Liam with his previouslies via the mini riot, his trepidation over the intended lesbian threesome, he was excited about the idea but then logistics came into play and it all seemed scary. (I know lots of people hate Liam and I don't really get it to be honest however he's mostly boring as far as I'm concerned until he hooks up with Shane or is shown to be dancing badly in a gay scene with his shirt off) Shane with his trying to be a better person and not involve Pablo in his sex life, Shane outing Lauren's pill popping breaking up her and Tommy. I think it was a nice cross section of romantic and sexual disasters across the board. If season 2 is bad I'll probably just rewatch season 1 repeatedly and pretend season 2 never happened :p Link to comment
Shan June 14, 2014 Share June 14, 2014 I remember reading somewhere that Carter Covington said Joss Whedon inspired him to write. One thing that I'm forever grateful to Joss for was that every season of Buffy wrapped itself up by the end of the season instead of a cliffhanger carried over to next year. I wish more shows did this. Maybe in this show's case it might have been better if before the season break, they had one more episode (or at least planned episode 8 to be the day after) showing at least some of the fallout and resolution (especially in case they hadn't been renewed). Link to comment
bravelittletoaster June 14, 2014 Share June 14, 2014 And Shane having owned his sexuality since fourth grade (and Pablo being "out and proud" since first grade) when Amy/Karma are portrayed as "confused/struggling/just starting out" is more indication of the show's sexism/disrespect for lesbianism/women, I'd argue. But JMO. I didn't know I was a lesbian until I was 23 and fell in love with a friend. I didn't realize I was disappointing all of womankind by being such a late-bloomer, though. Lawd. Everyone's journey is different, it takes all kinds of make a world, etc. I certainly don't have an issue with Amy not having figured all this out by 16. Link to comment
theshepherd June 14, 2014 Share June 14, 2014 (edited) I didn't know I was a lesbian until I was 23 and fell in love with a friend. I didn't realize I was disappointing all of womankind by being such a late-bloomer, though. Lawd. Everyone's journey is different, it takes all kinds of make a world, etc. I certainly don't have an issue with Amy not having figured all this out by 16. The thing is, no one is trying to say you're not a REAL lesbian. Nobody is attacking you for saying you didn't know until later in life. It happens. We understand. People say it's common again that's fair. Our complaint is not an attempt to devalue you or your journey. What we are saying is that our journey, those of us who discovered who we are earlier on in life or without a man is rarely ever seen or shown. I think everyone is taking the show to heart, some one way and some the other. I'm not the nasty sort that says you're faking it (Ha.) or you're bi or that you are not a REAL lesbian. That's ludicrous. You know who you are and I think that is the most beautiful part. The end of the journey and yes everyone has a different one. However, yours seems to be the one that always takes center stage. I respect yours and apparently so does the media, but mine....mine doesn't seem to matter and i'm sorry but it really grinds my gears. This isn't about Karmy, or this show that will in 2 years or less be nothing more but a blip in the history of pop culture. My anger is at the fact that the theme in Hollywood is to show your story as the ONLY story when that is simply not true. I kissed a girl and knew - I just knew and my life changed. My parents hated it (another common theme), I was lost at times, I've had my set backs. And now everyone is saying well if Amy just came out the show would be BORING. Again I respect everyone's journey but mine isn't boring as Hollywood would have you think, I've had my share of drama. Your path just happened to include men. Mine didn't. I don't want other lesbians warring with one another when the real culprit is standing by. Divided we fall ladies. Divided we fall. Edited June 15, 2014 by theshepherd 3 Link to comment
JaM June 15, 2014 Share June 15, 2014 (edited) That is kinda strange if you ask me. Life is not black or white. It is colorful. Carter C made this story based on his own experience as a teenager, therefore it is really up to him how he wants to tell it. You can criticize him for choices he made, yet this story is not complete. It's like judging the book based on first chapter. Throwing it away sometimes means you miss the really good parts in later chapters. Demanding first chapter to close the story makes no sense. Edited June 15, 2014 by JaM Link to comment
theshepherd June 15, 2014 Share June 15, 2014 I never said life was white and black. I said that we all have our journey - nothing about that suggests that I think anybody's path is either A or B. Those aren't my words. The thing about it is this story was never pitched as a coming out story. This story is about their friendship. This show would have been just as interesting exploring how they as friends move forward. Amy being out would not damper that at all. Jeesh. Link to comment
dohe June 15, 2014 Share June 15, 2014 The thing is, no one is trying to say you're not a REAL lesbian. Nobody is attacking you for saying you didn't know until later in life. It happens. We understand. People say it's common again that's fair. Our complaint is not an attempt to devalue you or your journey. What we are saying is that our journey, those of us who discovered who we are earlier on in life or without a man is rarely ever seen or shown. I think everyone is taking the show to heart, some one way and some the other. I'm not the nasty sort that says you're faking it (Ha.) or you're bi or that you are not a REAL lesbian. That's ludicrous. You know who you are and I think that is the most beautiful part. The end of the journey and yes everyone has a different one. However, yours seems to be the one that always takes center stage. I respect yours and apparently so does the media, but mine....mine doesn't seem to matter and i'm sorry but it really grinds my gears. This isn't about Karmy, or this show that will in 2 years or less be nothing more but a blip in the history of pop culture. My anger is at the fact that the theme in Hollywood is to show your story as the ONLY story when that is simply not true. I kissed a girl and knew - I just knew and my life changed. My parents hated it (another common theme), I was lost at times, I've had my set backs. And now everyone is saying well if Amy just came out the show would be BORING. Again I respect everyone's journey but mine isn't boring as Hollywood would have you think, I've had my share of drama. Your path just happened to include men. Mine didn't. I don't want other lesbians warring with one another when the real culprit is standing by. Divided we fall ladies. Divided we fall. What a fantastic post! You could not have said it better. The big picture is critical and, while some lesbians slept with men when they were younger, going by media representation you would think that is practically the only way lesbians live their journey. Meanwhile, us gay men are fixed in our sexual identity from the get go. In real life, I know plenty of lesbians - actually far and away the majority of my lesbian friends - who have never slept with a man and plenty of gay men who slept with women when they were young. That is why I am a bit confused when I read, for example, AfterEllen writers, defending Tea on Skins and Amy on Faking It, by going we all have journeys and it is about time mine was represented. It is not their story that has been pretty much ignored. It is the equivalent of a straight woman going "I am glad my journey of a meet cute with a hunk who fell in love with me" was finally represented by the media as if they are the persons ignored by media representation. 1 Link to comment
aradia22 June 15, 2014 Share June 15, 2014 On the one hand, I found the episode to be just as boring as the other episodes have been lately. There's no sparkle, no energy. Really, Ghost and Paula Abdul? It works on Glee. It doesn't work with all the faux-earnestness here. There were little moments that were nice but really it just seemed like a bunch of things rehashed from better stories. On the plus side, yay, Pablo is back! It seems like Lauren will get more depth in season 2! I think the acting of the three main leads has been slipping and I'd like to see more of the parents (or you know, school) in season 2 to ground things outside of the romance. Oh, and I loved the last 2 minutes or so. It was the only thing that really had some genuine life to it. It's like the episode finally got excited that it was airing when it was time for that cliffhanger. I won't pretend it wasn't obvious only because shows like this thrive on changing partners and there weren't a lot of options. If they wanted to shock me, it would have been Amy and Lauren falling into that bed. 1 Link to comment
superman1204 June 18, 2014 Share June 18, 2014 I've been seeing people say that Amy sleeping with Liam was realist, not so much in this forum but in the comment sections of articles on the finale, but in no way would I call that finale scene realistic. Am I just naïve? I get that many people, often women, sleep around after when they have a falling out with a significant other, but having hate sex with your best friend's ex? That seems really extreme. Maybe if Amy had a history of volatile, overly-sexual relationships with both men and women, then maybe, or if Karma and Amy were more rivals or frenemies and Amy was a typical mean girl, again maybe. Either way, I feel like Amy would have some serous issues if she actually hooked up with Liam in the real world. I like to think that someone doesn't go from being sexually confused , with feelings for a friend, to angrily hate fucking someone, without a major, long term downward spiral. Oh, and before anyone says that the show is meant to be an exaggeration of the real world, I always felt that applied more to the setting and the larger events (i.e. the protest) than to the actually characters. The writers did a good job of taking characters who were basically caricatures and developing so they felt like real people, not the other way around. Also Karma and Amy's relationship felt like the one thing that was meant to feel real in the over the top liberal wonderland they lived in. 2 Link to comment
ybrik June 18, 2014 Share June 18, 2014 I would go further with that and say the show's whole perspective on sex seems unrealistic to me. Maybe I am showing my age but the attitudes about sex seem more like people in first or second year in college and not 15-16 years old in high school. There is a casualness to it that seems completely opposite from what I remembered being in high school. Link to comment
superman1204 June 19, 2014 Share June 19, 2014 I would go further with that and say the show's whole perspective on sex seems unrealistic to me. Maybe I am showing my age but the attitudes about sex seem more like people in first or second year in college and not 15-16 years old in high school. There is a casualness to it that seems completely opposite from what I remembered being in high school. I definitely agree with you. IMO, the only realistic depiction of sex was Lauren's sexting plotline. Instead of being sexy or interesting to watch, it showed Lauren's insecurity, which I think characterizes most high school sexy experiences in one way or other. As for Liam and Shane, most high school guys might like to think they are that good at sex, but I would be shocked to see a high school guy who could consistently pickup sexual partners. it just seemed unreal to me that if Amy was as drunk as I'm projecting she was at that time from how she was acting, she would not feel at all wanting to have sex. With anyone. She would be stumbling around, probably falling, possibly getting sick, etc. But the way the show showed it, with her being all drunk and messed up to her getting thrown onto a bed all sexy and in soft lighting and looking not that smashed. Yeah from my experience with really drunk people, they are at best annoying and at worst complete train wrecks. Considering how upset Amy was, she definitely should have fallen into the train wreck category. Maybe this is just my distain for the final scene talking, but I wish they had made Amy and Liam's drunkenness more realistic, for several reasons. First, I really don't think drunk revenge sex should be romanticized. Second, at least the scene would have felt true to reality, if not true to the rest of the show. Third, if they made the scene look like the most awkward, unsexy, disaster of a sexual encounter, I might have actually bought that Amy was doing it because she was emotionally hurt, instead of deciding that Amy's character randomly became a terrible person because the plot required it to happen. Lastly, I think just about any change would be an improvement to the final scene. 1 Link to comment
bravelittletoaster July 1, 2014 Share July 1, 2014 What we are saying is that our journey, those of us who discovered who we are earlier on in life or without a man is rarely ever seen or shown. I understand that now [you've voiced the frustration in a way that is clearer for me than I was getting before in the thread], but isn't that more a beef with Hollywood in general than this particular show? I understand wanting to see yourself reflected in the media without necessarily demanding that this particular show do it. I don't mean to be glib, but it's not Carter's job to tell your [or anyone else's] story besides the one he's telling. Now it is absolutely his job not to trash a minority to which he [specifically] doesn't belong, but personally I don't think he's done that here. I get wanting to see your story told, and that's one of the reasons I am particularly enamored of all the choices we have in lesbian characters on tv very recently. I'm as attached to Amy's journey as I am because it rings so true to me, so I can imagine the converse and being frustrated when it doesn't for you. But I also believe [and have for a while] that we're just going to have to tell our own stories more if we want to see them reflected in media. Which is true of any minority [look at how much Shonda Rhimes has done for African American presence in significant roles on network television]. As a Glee survivor and white hot hater of Ryan Murphy, I've been pleasantly surprised all season at how much this gay guy "gets it." Now, obviously, many of us disagree on that point at the end of the season. And I don't think it was the best narrative choice either, but I don't think it was the deal-breaker it has been for some. As a side note that I'm reminded of by this discussion: There's an Atlantic article on OITNB that's causing a bit of a furor this week because the author complains that the show doesn't do a good job of representing the plight of male prisoners. Most of the rebuttal of course has pointed out that it's ridiculous to expect a show about female prisoners to do that. What I think he's really trying to argue [very badly and incoherently] is that male prisoners represent the majority of the prison population, and yet we don't have a prestige tv show doing a nuanced humanizing take on them and that's unfortunate. THAT is a valid point. Criticizing OITNB for not doing that is completely specious. They're not obligated to reflect that other experience, obviously, because it's not the story they're telling. Again I think it's valid to want to see your story and to be frustrated that no one seems to want to tell it, but I don't think Faking It is obligated to do so, nonetheless. Link to comment
Cranberry July 2, 2014 Author Share July 2, 2014 I'm still not angry about the finale, still just mildly disappointed, but interestingly, it killed my excitement about the show. For the eight weeks it was airing, I checked the Tumblr tag every day, sought out interviews and articles, read Carter Covington's tweets, posted here... and then that finale happened, I read the post-finale interviews and learned what we were in for in the first few eps of season two, and I just wasn't excited anymore. I'm still going to watch, but it feels like the magic is gone, if that makes sense. Link to comment
bravelittletoaster July 2, 2014 Share July 2, 2014 I'm kind of in the same boat, but some of that may be due to OITNB season 2 landing and hijacking all my spare brain cells. But I agree that while I'm not angry per se in re: the finale, it's kind of killed my hard on for the show a bit. Link to comment
superman1204 July 2, 2014 Share July 2, 2014 I understand that now [you've voiced the frustration in a way that is clearer for me than I was getting before in the thread], but isn't that more a beef with Hollywood in general than this particular show? I understand wanting to see yourself reflected in the media without necessarily demanding that this particular show do it. I don't mean to be glib, but it's not Carter's job to tell your [or anyone else's] story besides the one he's telling. Now it is absolutely his job not to trash a minority to which he [specifically] doesn't belong, but personally I don't think he's done that here. I completely agree with what you are saying, Carter has the story he wants to tell and it's his right to tell the story in whatever way he sees fit. That being said, I think the reason so many people are upset is not that they felt the show should tell their story, but instead the show lead us to believe that the story being told was of one of a girl who realizes she is a lesbian early in life and does so without being with a guy first. For example, Amy kissed Oliver and Liam and both times she acted like there was nothing wrong with the kiss, but they didn't give her the same emotional and sexual spark she felt when she kissed Karma, which lead many of us to believe Amy was a lesbian and that she had little to no attraction to men. Since that story is not commonly told and the show stuck to that story for the entire season, with the exception of the final scene, I can see why people were upset when the final scene completely changed that aspect of the show. Now, the show has either made a significant change in direction, with Amy being bisexual, or the show has reinforce the unrealistic trope that its not uncommon for lesbians sleep with men. Either way the show isn't ground breaking or a superior depiction of lesbians, it just another cheap teen drama. If the show had at least indicated that Amy was bisexual or considering being with a man, then people might not have been as invested as they were but they probably would not have taken the final scene as a giant middle finger. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that people are upset because the writers threw a plot twist at us. The writers could have done just about anything with the plot and I think people would have been okay. The problem is that the final scene undermined Amy's character and the narrative and themes that had been developed around her, and the show had lead us to believe that those elements of the show would be important. To compare it to OITNB, the show doesn't have an obligation to show the plight of men in prison because that's not the story they are telling, like you said, but the show has developed a reputation as being a nuanced depiction of woman in prison and it would be understandable if people were upset if the writers introduced a character or other element in the show that completely undermined that depiction. Shows shouldn't be expect to tell a certain story, but quiet often shows that depict socially important issues are expected to tell those stories well and failing to do so can come off as disrespectful to people who actually experience those issues. Sorry if my response was way too long or confusing. I tried. Also I wasn't trying to put words in anyone's mouth so if I missed the point anyone was trying to make, feel free to correct me. Link to comment
Dorne July 3, 2014 Share July 3, 2014 (edited) theshepherdI feel like I've been kind of queerbaited. (…) And now people are calling lesbians who are against this show - biphobic. Funny, I'm a bisexual woman in a LTR with a man and I don't think anyone being upset about the Amy-Liam hook up is biphobic at all. I can totally see how a lot of people would feel queerbaited. They didn't label her but Amy has always seemed like a lesbian to me, she was not grossed out by kissing boys but she wasn't excited either. I can totally see how a lesbian person would feel queerbaited. And her reaction to Liam kissing her didn't contradict that notion at all, at least not to me. I saw it as left over excitement from kissing Karma and the prospect of having sex with her. The threeway was all about Karma for her, Liam was a means to an end. And like previous posters have said having her sleep with him seemed unrealistic to me “I'm mad my best friend rejected my romantic advances, I'm gonna lose my virginity to the boy she lost her virginity to recently!”. They should have had her hook up with a random girl or better, have her go a spiral of picking up random women on bars next season trying to get over Karma. I would love to have a bi person on this show (was hoping for Karma or Lauren), or they could introduce a new character as Amy's girlfriend etc. But to have a seemingly lesbian character sleep with a boy was just lazy, awful and predictable. I can relate to being disappointed with your representation on TV – bisexuals are often portrayed in open relationships or sleeping around, being unable to commit to a monogamous relationship or having threeways (not that's nothing wrong with that way of living, it's just doesn't represent every bi person). Not every person of a certain sexuality is the same and yet we get the same portrail over and over again. A big portion of us is just not represented. I also don't like how women are so often depicted as confused about their sexuality either – although I know a lot of people men and women take some time to figure it out. I was maybe confused when puberty hit, but by the age of sixteen I was pretty sure about my sexuality and have being out for 10 years now. Yet non straight women seem to be almost always depicted the same way. Edited July 3, 2014 by Dorne Link to comment
bravelittletoaster July 3, 2014 Share July 3, 2014 It just actually never even occurred to me seeing Amy sleep with Liam that it changed her sexuality or meant something different about it than I'd already believed. I thought Amy was gay, and I still think she's gay, not bi. She just wanted to burn her life down, and that was a pretty efficient way of doing it. Unfortunately it was also a pretty good way to burn the show down, apparently. Amy's an overly emotional hothead [and I relate to that], but Carter probably should have known better. 2 Link to comment
possibilities July 3, 2014 Share July 3, 2014 The part of this that I find most bizarre is that the showrunner wouldn't know this is the reaction he'd get. Why would you tell a cliche story in the first place, knowing it will alienate the bulk of your audience? And why would you not know that's what you were doing? I would understand if this was CBS, and run by the people who make 2 1/2 men or something. But this show was pitched from the very beginning as being directed by people who supposedly understood the culture and were going to avoid that crap. It's so extremely executed that I almost think Covington's a deliberate troll at this point. I just don't see how this could have happened entirely naively. Oh well. There's always realty to console us and provide more interesting situations, when TV fails? Link to comment
SJiles July 6, 2014 Share July 6, 2014 (edited) I think people are making a big deal out of this. Amy herself hasn't identify herself as a lesbian so why are people labeling her. She does not know for sure what her sexual orientation is so I don't think it is a stretch for her to sleep with a man. While I do think that she was wrong to sleep with Liam and I do agree that there were probably better ways to create drama I don't think it ruin the show. Edited July 8, 2014 by maraleia changed term to sexual orientation per standards of correct terminology Link to comment
galax-arena July 11, 2014 Share July 11, 2014 (edited) What I think he's really trying to argue [very badly and incoherently] is that male prisoners represent the majority of the prison population, and yet we don't have a prestige tv show doing a nuanced humanizing take on them and that's unfortunate. THAT is a valid point. It wasn't, though. Men have already had their own acclaimed prison shows. The author can just watch Oz or Prison Break if that's what he's after. I understand that now [you've voiced the frustration in a way that is clearer for me than I was getting before in the thread], but isn't that more a beef with Hollywood in general than this particular show? But the individual parts make up the whole. People can always, always, always find a way to rationalize why something is justified on an individual level. "But that's the story they're choosing to tell...." Well, yeah, obviously. Clearly they're choosing to tell that story because, well, that's what's on screen. But do we think it's a coincidence that these writers often make story choices that happen to jibe with the privileged/majority/stereotyped position? Note, I'm speaking more generally here because this is a line of reasoning that always comes up when it comes to issues like sexuality and gender and race and all that fun stuff. I didn't think that that guy's article on OITNB was ridiculous because "that's not the story the showrunners are telling", I thought it was ridiculous because men absolutely dominate the TV/movie landscape, and this writer guy's coming for one of the few shows that is incredibly woman-centric (and, as stated above, ignoring the shows out there that HAVE focused on men in prison)? GTFO, writer guy. I feel like saying that it's not really this show's responsibility or that show's responsibility to do [The Thing] because the real problem is Hollywood as a whole, is a bit like the bystander effect. I realize the analogy isn't anywhere close to perfect, but there's still this sense of abdication of responsibility because there are a lot of other shows with the same problem. Of course, Carter Covington has the right to tell whatever story he wants, but other people have the right to criticize his choices. Edited July 11, 2014 by galax-arena 2 Link to comment
R2213 August 9, 2014 Share August 9, 2014 My take on where Faking It is going. I know I'm late to this discussion but I figured I would chime in. Everybody is upset about Karmy not being a couple, and Amy sleeping with Liam. I can understand why. With the show being based around Amy's feelings for Karma, why not have the happy ending? I know. However, I can understand where Carter is going. First of all, you have to think about it. If Karma would have returned Amy's feelings, where do you go from there? Basically, there is no need for a second season and you might as well combine all 8 episodes into a long movie. There is still obviously a lot more of the story to tell. I do believe there is no question that Amy is a lesbian. We may see her experiment a little more in S2 as she continues to find herself, but it is clear that she does not feel much of an attraction to men. She kissed Oliver and felt absolutely nothing. Remember the part when Shane was shocked because he said he would jump Oliver. We also see in the beginning that Amy just doesn't seem motivated to meet boys. Karma on the other hand is a little more complicated. You can see from the beginning that she is totally boy crazy. She talks about boys non-stop. She also develops great chemistry with Liam from the start. As for her relationship with Amy, I do believe she felt something after the kids at the threesome. She would not have said Whoa and looked at Amy with passion in her eyes. I think she was in a bit of shock. I also think about the dancing scene at the wedding. She would not have ditched Liam under the table to focus on Amy when the Paula Abdul song came on if she didn't feel something. Why? It's real simple. If I was under the table with my girlfriend, I would not ditch her to go dance with my best friend. That's so obvious. The rejection wasn't as complicated as everyone thinks. I don't think Karma has completely acknowledged to herself that she has these kind of feelings for Amy because she's never liked another girl before. She has always been interested in boys and this is a little scary to her. I don't believe Karma will ever be a lesbian, but I could see her having a romantic relationship with Amy. Does that classify her as bisexual? I don't think so. I think Karma is just about as straight as you can get on the spectrum, but I think she has a deep emotional bond with Amy. Karma is definitely not in the middle. I don't believe Karma would date any other girls except for Amy. I believe if Karma doesn't end up with Amy, she will end up marrying a man. I know the drunk sex between Amy and Liam was a killer for everyone. I can see two different scenarios playing out. One would be a dream sequence where it didn't really happen, or it is a case of drunk and angry sex where Amy and Liam are both upset with Karma. They are simply finding comfort in each other. For all the Karmy fans, by no means do I think this makes Amy straight or bi. S2 will be interesting. In the end, I believe everyone will get what they want, but Karma has to do some soul searching. We don't know what's gonna happen when Karma finds out about Amy and Liam's one night stand. I also think a new character will be introduced. It will be another woman for Amy to date. There are still a lot of issues to be worked out. If Karma and Amy end up together it could be amazing, but if it goes wrong, Amy could end up getting really hurt. It could ruin a lifelong friendship. I'm sure Karma was weighing all these issues out. I still believe she likes Liam as well, and it would be easier for her to try and repair the relationship with him. We have a lot to look forward to in S2! 2 Link to comment
mjgchick August 11, 2014 Share August 11, 2014 I think Karma is just about as straight as you can get on the spectrum, but I think she has a deep emotional bond with Amy. Karma is definitely not in the middle. I don't believe Karma would date any other girls except for Amy. I believe if Karma doesn't end up with Amy, she will end up marrying a man. Like Paige with Alex on Degrassi. I could never see her with another woman not Alex and I feel the same way about Karma's feelings for Amy. Link to comment
R2213 August 11, 2014 Share August 11, 2014 Paige and Alex from Degrassi was exactly who I was thinking about when I thought about where Faking It was going. Paige never dated any other women after she split with Alex, but the relationship ultimately ruined their friendship. I also believe Karma is in the same situation with Amy. Karma has feelings for her, but would not date any other women. Link to comment
RachelKM September 3, 2014 Share September 3, 2014 (edited) I'm very late to the party. I just watched the entire season last night. I had hear about the premise, found it weird, and then promptly forgot it existed until my DVR over recorded after Finding Carter and the first 2 minutes intrigued me with the dialogue. And let me say, R2213, I agree with your post regarding Karma and Amy's respective feelings and positions. Maybe it is because I mainlined the show and didn't have time to stew with it and/or invest in shipping (though it is rare that I strongly ship anyway and it is almost never my reason for watching a show), but the ending, while not my favorite thing that happened in the series,didn't throw me as much as it seems to have done for the rest of the board. To me, it looked like two emotionally crushed people who had feelings for Karma acting out both in anger at and want of Karma. And as screwed up as it was, they both chose the Karma adjacent person available with whom to do it. I think Amy thinks Liam is attractive enough as guys go and she found kissing him pleasant rather than repulsive, so it doesn't shatter me to think that, while in total emotional upheaval and simultaneously reaching and lashing out, she would choose him in light of his Karma association.* And I think it was similar for Liam. Obviously it is not much of a deviation for Liam to have sex with any girl, but Amy would be different. I disliked Liam in the first two episode when it was clear that the primary attraction for him when trying to sleep with Karma was the "seducing the lesbian fantasy" crap that reduces women to a combination sex-object/merit badge. I do, however, think somewhere around the time he couldn't bring himself to sleep with Karma while she was in a relationship was a turning point in his thinking and his admission that he sort of wanted to be the basis of the breakup was evidence of his investment. And, yes he was sneaking around at first and only in it for the thrill, but once he started to really get to know Karma, he seemed to value her as a person and Karma used that to argue for them getting back together. And he made his feelings about lies pretty clear and at that point Karma was lying to him and Amy. So while, obviously it's easier to feel for Amy as we have a lot of her perspective, I think it sells Liam short to reduce him to the interloper, douchebag who took advantage of the vulnerable drunk lesbian. Sure, he didn't lose his best friend and love at the same time and he hasn't known Karma since kindergarten, but I don't think his position in that last scene was actually that different from Amy's. He was drunk, angry, hurt, and lonely. The best case scenario, short of an out and out retcon, would be that we'd pick up exactly where we left and they'd stop before actually having sex and realize that what they are doing is destructive and will make neither of them feel better. But since that doesn't seem to be the likely approach by the writers, I'd settle for an honest conversation between them post facto about what they were really doing. Since they are teens, I'd actually be ok with them having to sort it for a while. But I would like to see it acknowledged that neither of them was really in bed with the other in that moment, but rather just acting on raw feelings and hurt, especially Amy. *I realize the broader implications in the context of media representations and I don't love it. But in the context of these specific characters and this specific story, I'm willing to take a wait and see approach regarding the aftermath and fall out before I start rioting (4 months late since I was so slow to catch on to this show). Edited September 3, 2014 by RachelKM Link to comment
dohe September 4, 2014 Share September 4, 2014 (edited) Reasoning is always offered every time a show with a lesbian character inevitably gets to that sequence where she has sex with a guy. It is the equivalent of how I used to have to listen to how the latest example of a gay male whose existence was designed for helping the neighbor next door female character woman meet Mr. Right was different. This time he has a mustache. This time he was an older man. This time he turned out to be a cop. This time he saved the day. This time he found love at the end with a briefly glanced character. Yeah the reality is it is the same old deal. Everytime this trope is trotted out the reasons given are: A. It was in the heat of the moment. B. She was in pain. C. She felt ignored. D. It is a step on the path to finding herself. E. The only way to feel close to the woman she loves was this way. F. The only way to get back at the woman she loves was this way. And the list goes on and on and on always followed by a c'mon people lets wait and see where this is headed. Yeah, the show may turn out to be awesome. It may overcome the idiocy of that sequence. Skins UK overcame Emily sleeping with JJ before the 3rd generation, the short movies, and it's US version seemingly went out of their way to destroy any goodwill they had won. However I don't think anyone who hated this ending needs an explanation why they should not have ill will towards it. It is the trope occurring yet again that is the problem here. Giving reasons for why the lesbian slept with a man on a show is a time honored tradition and lets the problem have a pass. That, while that certainly happens occasionally, it is not every single time! So if people want to be upset and expect the show to somehow repair the damage that has been done so be it. Same as if they reject it completely and want to explain they have had enough. The persons hostile towards the ending are not at a loss of what is going on. They get it. They just think it is a cliché that decades ago wore out it's welcome. Edited September 4, 2014 by dohe 2 Link to comment
phoenixrising December 5, 2014 Share December 5, 2014 I can easily see how the writers might have expected Liam to be more popular. Handsome, broody rich white boy? Gosh, I can think of no examples whatsoever of fandoms giving characters like that all the free passes in the world. Except I can. That the Karmy army took one look at him and went "Hottie Douceface" is a credit to the fandom, and could quite easily be surprising to the team behind the show. Did they not take into account that the fandom is (probably) largely queer girls who are watching for the girls and not for the same guy that is grossly inserted into about every other show? I'm sure there's others watching, but. . .most of the press it's getting is from afterellen. For everyone who is disappointed: watch the webseries Carmilla. There aren't even really any significant men! Or at least I don't remember their names! It's all about the queer ladies! No one sleeps with any man! 2 Link to comment
Cranberry December 5, 2014 Author Share December 5, 2014 I second the rec! No coming out angst, the girls just like girls and that's the way it is. One of the stars said that approximately half of the cast and crew is queer, and it shows. Hope they get a second season.I'm on my ipad now and can't moderate well, but later on I may make a thread for recommendations of what to watch while Faking It is on a break. 1 Link to comment
Jack Shaftoe July 12, 2015 Share July 12, 2015 (edited) I know that I am more than a year late and that what I'm about to say has probably been said more eloquently by others in this thread but I just have to vent my frustration about this episode. So here goes. Even if I am to ignore the ubiquitous annoying cliche of the lesbian having sex with a man which has already been torn apart by other posters, so many problems remain. 1. Why was Karma lying to Amy about having sex with Liam? She could have easily told her with the expectation that this would remove the need to lie to him that "Amy is totally okay with it". 2. Why, oh, why would Amy be rewarding Liam? Punishing Karma I understand (though the scale of the punishment was way disproportionate) but rewarding Liam with sex after knowing his obsessions with lesbians and how turned on he was by the idea of "stealing Karma from her girlfriend"? Just doesn't compute. It's a script right out of a porno movie - the guy has a lesbians fetish (nothing wrong with that per se, don't get me wrong) and at every turn "coincidences" contrive to make sure he scores with the "lesbians" (quotation marks because in that type of porn the right term would be bisexuals), no matter how much of a jerk he might be in his dealings with them. At least the porn following this scenario is upfront about who it aims to pander to and doesn't pretend to be something it is not, like Faking It. 3. Why would Liam come to the wedding in the first place? He can't go a single day without sex with Karma? She is very pretty but come on, Liam, control yourself just a little bit, will you? 4. And a complaint not related to this episode only - why is this that on US TV shows about teenagers the boys are always at least as sexually experienced as their female partners? I mean, I have watched quite a few teen shows and I can't think of a single example of the female character being more sexually experienced than her male significant other, among the important characters at least. Even the Alpha Bitches often turn out to be lying about their sexual prowess. Anyone wants to bet that Lauren is a virgin too? 5. I know I said I wasn't going to rant about the sexual orientation thing but I just can't. If Amy were a man, competing with Liam for Karma's affections, the two of them hooking up would never happen in a million years. Never, ever, even if there had been a ton of hints about them maybe being bisexual. If Liam were a woman, Amy sleeping with her would be almost as unlikely to happen as the above. But as it is, the more savvy viewers didn't react by exclaiming "What? You must be kidding" but by yelling "This shit AGAIN!" which is pretty damning, IMO. 6. I am a glutton for punishment and I'll try watching season 2 despite this disappointment but I sure hope they improve Karma's character because at this point I'm struggling to see why Amy is so enamored with her, especially considering she can apparently get a date with a girl as pretty as Jasmine in literally five seconds. And I'm so tired of the "well, Amy's impulsive, so it's not impossible she'd do this" defense. "Not impossible" is a pretty low bar to excuse crappy writing. It's not impossible that Amy would make a pass at Lauren, it's not impossible that she would slit her wrists, it's not impossible that she'd grab Farrah's keys and run away (despite apparently not having her driver's license)…hell, it's "not impossible" that she would spontaneously combust. All of those are nowhere as offensive as "self-identified lesbian teen throws herself at her best friend's boyfriend", and all of them (bar perhaps the spontaneous combustion) are more likely. This so much. "Not impossible" means shit. It's not impossible that Liam is a space alien with magical powers to make all girls fall for him or that Amy is a serial killer in her spare time but does anyone want to see this unfold on screen? Thank god for fanfiction (which actually got me into watching this show in the first place), because the actual show is so flawed... Edited July 12, 2015 by Jack Shaftoe 1 Link to comment
WhosThatGirl August 7, 2015 Share August 7, 2015 You made very good points! My feeling on why this left an awful taste in my mouth after I saw it was more of annoyance. I, like, everyone else am just annoyed with how things went, re: Amy is drunk and depressed and feeling rejected, she hooks up with a guy. But why did it have to be Liam? I know he was hurt and rejected and it's a double whammy they both wanted to hurt Karma, kill two birds with one stone. But then the interview with the CC. he seemed to imply that it wasn't a conscious choice for it to be Liam, he just happened to be there or something. So, then I ask, why couldn't it have been any other guy? The show made it Liam for that reason, despite what they say. Or.. it could have been another woman. I think Karma would have been just as easily hurt if an hour after Amy confessed her feelings, she hooked up randomly with anyone, actually. And then another thing struck by what was said in the interview. He said something like that the teens are 16 and they have no idea what they are doing and acting on instinct and aren't aware of the repercussions of their adult actions (re Amy and Liam and the hookup). I don't know. I don't buy that noise only because like I said earlier, the show made it Liam. There is a conscious choice in that. If it was a random guy, girl, person I would think totally different. To answer a few of your questions. I don't understand why Karma didn't tell Amy right away about herself and Liam. Mostly for plot, I guess? I guess the show would argue that Amy hates Liam and Karma knew talking about it on her Mom's wedding day when Amy was already stressed would not be good but I feel like a few days passed between episode 7 and this one and Karma would have told Amy right away. It's not like Karma was ever shy about talking about Liam before and Amy was never shy about how much she disliked him. So, yeah it's confusing. Link to comment
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