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Tara Ariano

S01.E10: The Battle Of Setauket

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In the first-season finale, Mary grapples with the realization that Abe is a rebel spy. Meanwhile, Ben and Caleb lead a raid on Setauket to save the Patriot families.

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Alexander Rose also details the "battle" in his book.

Caleb Brewster actually was involved in the raid, but Tallmadge was not. Not a particularly exciting engagement, so no doubt they'll be embellishing. Hard to tell from the promo what good or bad comes of their efforts, but they can't afford to just wheel spin a finale so, hopefully, the fallout pays off.

Edited by Kabota

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Loved Caleb's "oh well" shrug to Abe. Made me LOL.

Abe vs. & with Ben was a hoot. How Abe got his balls back. Culper. Nice.

Poor Caleb. Simcoe is a total macadamia nut. As is Rogers.

Ben & Nathaniel Tallmadge's reunion was beautiful. More in that short moment & tight hug than in many extended platitudes. "Let me look at you." Awe. Still love Ben best of all.

Andre is one sexy bastard.

Mary is something. Imagine if we can get her playing for our team. Behave yourself around Anna, Abe. It could happen.

There may not be a strong chance of it & this show may not have set the world on fire, but I would like to see it come back. Here's hoping on my part.

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Ben & Nathaniel Tallmadge's reunion was beautiful. More in that short moment & tight hug than in many extended platitudes. "Let me look at you." Awe. Still love Ben best of all.

 

This!  I love Ben best, too!  This show needs a 2nd season, if only because I recently moved to Virginia and need to take a drive to wherever they have been filming. ;-)  Seth is only 2 years younger than me.  

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Well, Wifey really came through for Abe in the end--I just hope they left his horrible, horrible knit cap in the house when they torched it.

 

I love Other Burly Bearded Guy's (I cannot for the life of me keep them straight) Villainous Exit  Laugh when he is relieved of his commend: "Bwa-hahahaha. BWA-hahahahaha!"

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Too much love story and not enough spy story.  Guess I should go back to reading to get my history-nerd fix.

 

I understand they need to make changes to allow for filming, but it makes me crazy when shows have interior night scenes in the colonial houses.  There's always a fire roaring in the hearth and a million candles glowing on every surface.  In reality, once the sun went down, it was bedtime. All fires were put out.  No one would have left an unattended fire going over night because an ember or log could catch the whole place on fire. Oh, well...Hollywood!

 

Not sure I'll be back next season unless the soap opera stuff is dialed back.

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I actually liked this episode! Lots of action and really made me like some of the characters even more.

 

Major Hewett - you know, I felt for him. He's trying hard to keep the town together, trying to do things somewhat peacefully and Capt. Simcoe just blows it to shreds. Felt bad for him, actually. Actor does a great job with him. It's like Hewett is in a rock and a hard place.

 

Favourite character Ben Tallmadge - love him, love the actor. Same with the character of John Andre - he was only in a bit, but him messing with Rogers was perfect. Want to see more of his machinations.

 

Mary, Mary, Mary. I knew from the opening scene that she would burn the code book. And the stupid woman later did. Seriously, what an idiot character and just annoying as heck. Deserves to be married to Abe.

 

Abe, Abe, Abe. Worst spy in history. I like Jamie Bell, think he's a good actor, but his character is unlikable. WHY are you telling your wife any more secrets. She cannot be trusted. The less she knows the better. She will single handedly bring down the Rebels simply for being nosy and irritating and making poor decisions.

 

NO! Not Baker! I loved that lovable Brit. So cute and sweet and why did he have to die!! He was so awesome.

 

Anna, Anna, Anna. Here is a lesson in Spying 101. When you are trying to keep your relationship (romantic or otherwise) secret, leaping out of a boat and swimming into the arms of your spymate/lover in front of your husband and half of the British Army is NOT the way to do it. Covert, you are not. Poor Selah - again, deserves a much better wife. Anna, Mary and Abe need to move to some deserted island and let the real spies and proper decisions makers do their thing, because you three are just making a mockery of the war and spying and well...everything.

 

Captain Simcoe - or rechristened Crazy Capt Simcoe. Guy has gone off the rails, and technically Hewett should be arresting him, throwing him in the stocks or court-marshaling him for insubordination. I swear my history lesson is going to be that Simcoe goes insane, and in his obviously insanity, he eventually heads up North and in a fit of crazy, decides to establish my great nation of Canada. Because otherwise, in the real world, he would have been shot or thrown in prison already. But the actor is awesome and Simcoe does make a great villian!

 

Though I am complaining, I did like the episode and WILL watch if the show gets renewed - which I hope it does.

Edited by HalcyonDays
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NO! Not Baker! I loved that lovable Brit. So cute and sweet and why did he have to die!! He was so awesome.

 

Abe becomes a good shot just in time to take down the sweetest redcoat ever. Way to go, buddy. Where was that skill when  you were dueling it up with Simcoe? Not that I want Simcoe dead- his 'I do not have time for this' look when he saw Ben and Caleb and company coming up that hill was amazing- but it would've solved some of Abe's problems.

 

"I know how to clean up a mess." Damn. Indeed, Mary.

 

I know why the church is up on the hill but that is a long walk. I bet the Continentals were glad they didn't have to run all the way up it. I know I would be.

Edited by Iboatedhere
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The actor that plays Ranger Roger is Angus Macfadyen. I usually just mentally call him Robert the Bruce; that's whom he played in Braveheart.

 

I agree with Sarah that waay too much time is being spent on domestic affairs, but I suspect it's not enough to make me quit the show just yet. We'll see what a second season might bring, if there is one.

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I actually like this show but agree it needs more actual spying

Up until the end I found mary to be an annoying airhead but wow loved her at the end! Hope it gets renewed and the writers allow her to keep her spine.

Edited by Tvfl
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Okay so they killed off the nicest character in the show and have him killed off by the so-called "hero."

 

Abe and Anna are the two most petty, self-indulgent people in all of history.  Neither Mary nor Selah deserve the pain they are putting them through.  Wish Simcoe had shot Abe and wish Anna died in the one foot of water she was struggling through at the end there.

 

Simcoe goes totally whacko.  Didn't see that coming.  Thought he was more cleverly evil then to unhinge like that.  Guess it was the revenge of Bucephalus' ghost.

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Finally got around to watching the season (series?) finale.  Some random thoughts...

 

Must say Mary's about-face at the end was unexpected.  But Abe is still all over the place.  His wishy-washiness has gotten people killed, including one of the most beloved characters on this show!

 

Did not particularly enjoy watching Simcoe go bonkers like that.  He was much more interesting when he was dishing out snide one-liners. 

 

If this show is going to be renewed, I hope TPTB read these boards and get Ben, Caleb, and Andre front and center next season.  And more Sackett and Washington -- and as a result, more spying, definitely.  Throw in some Rogers and Hewlett, and I'll be happy.  Enough of the romantic triangle and enough of the father-son angst (yaaaaawn). 

 

This show kinda/sorta reminds me of how Copper (BBC America) was: great premise, good actors, interesting time period -- but eventually, it got mired in too much melodrama, and it met its premature end (that one did get renewed for a second season). 

 

On a purely superficial note, I hadn't noticed until this episode how handsome Selah was.  Strictly for that reason, I wouldn't mind seeing him as a major character again.

 

I just was getting ready to utter the very words that Ensign Baker uttered when he appeared at the entrance.  I had to LOL at that.  He definitely had the worst timing.  Ever.

 

Last but not least, I know I've said this before, but that Woodhull kid is totally adorable. 

 

If the show doesn't get renewed, well, it was nice reading everyone's very insightful/intelligent posts.  I enjoyed them all!

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Abe and Anna are the two most petty, self-indulgent people in all of history.  Neither Mary nor Selah deserve the pain they are putting them through.  Wish Simcoe had shot Abe and wish Anna died in the one foot of water she was struggling through at the end there.

 

 

Maybe Mary should dump Abe, Selah dump Anna and then Mary and Selah can be a couple.

Must say Mary's about-face at the end was unexpected.  But Abe is still all over the place.  His wishy-washiness has gotten people killed, including one of the most beloved characters on this show!

 

 

I wouldn't say Mary's actions were unexpected - I think they were pretty much in character for her.  For Mary, family/Abe are the most important thing and she was willing to do whatever it took to keep her family together.  Remember, this is the woman who told Anna that she didn't mind if Anna had an affair with Abe as long as Anna kept things quiet and did not monopolize Abe's time.

 

If this gets a second season I wonder how Mary will deal with the Abe as Spy - since history tells us Woodhull continued his spying activities for several more years.

 

As for Abe's wishy-washy-ness, if I remember correctly, that's pretty much what Woodhull was like - always complaining about money, assignments and threatening to leave.

Ben & Nathaniel Tallmadge's reunion was beautiful. More in that short moment & tight hug than in many extended platitudes. "Let me look at you." Awe. Still love Ben best of all.

Andre is one sexy bastard.

Mary is something. Imagine if we can get her playing for our team. Behave yourself around Anna, Abe. It could happen.

 

 

I totally believed that Ben and Nathaniel were father and son in that one moment; well played by both actors.  I don't know if it is the uniform, but Seth Numrich was looking particularly tall and commanding this episode.

 

Well John Andre did have a reputation of being a bit of a ladies man.

 

I wish the show did not set up Anna as Abe's childhood sweetheart and created the love triangle ..... I think it would have been more effective and you could have gotten drama just from the fact that Abe was trying to hid his spy activities from Mary.

Edited by OakGoblinFly
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The actor that plays Ranger Roger is Angus Macfadyen. I usually just mentally call him Robert the Bruce; that's whom he played in Braveheart.

 

Ah, that's where I know him from.

 

Maybe Mary should dump Abe, Selah dump Anna and then Mary and Selah can be a couple.

 

I was hoping Mary would run off with Baker.  Too bad the bullet didn't ricochet off one of his brass buttons and hit Abe.

 

Even if the show isn't renewed I've acquired an interest in the subject.  Can anyone recommend a good book about the Culper spy ring?

Edited by Haleth
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I actually liked this episode! Lots of action and really made me like some of the characters even more.

 

Major Hewett - you know, I felt for him. He's trying hard to keep the town together, trying to do things somewhat peacefully and Capt. Simcoe just blows it to shreds. Felt bad for him, actually. Actor does a great job with him. It's like Hewett is in a rock and a hard place.

 

Favourite character Ben Tallmadge - love him, love the actor. Same with the character of John Andre - he was only in a bit, but him messing with Rogers was perfect. Want to see more of his machinations.

 

 

Once the show hit its stride (around episode 5) I really, really liked it.  

 

I do appreciate the fact that the show is trying to portray both sides with layers; neither side is completely in the right and neither is completely in the wrong.  There are people from each side who are generally moral, upstanding, decent individuals trying to do the best they can and then there are those whose views are extreme.

 

I think the show would be better served by focusing on Andre and Tallmadge and their activities to win the war (they're the two most interesting people) - I don't need to focus on Abe to get the "every man" feel/view into a spy ring. 

Ah, that's where I know him from.

 

I was hoping Mary would run off with Baker.  Too bad the bullet didn't ricochet off one of his brass buttons and hit Abe.

 

Even if the show isn't renewed I've acquired an interest in the subject.  Can anyone recommend a good book about the Culper spy ring?

 

 

Ah poor Ensign Baker ..... kid was just trying to do his job and gets a bullet to the belly for his trouble.  I thought his smile when he saw the Woodhull family together was adorable.

 

The show is based on Alexander Rose's Washington's Spies. I haven't read that one, but I might pick it up as I enjoyed Rose's comments on the AMC website.

 

I remember reading George Washington Spymaster and The Secret Six eons ago; they were quite good (hmmm, might have to dig them out of storage and give a re-read).  

 

Ben Tallmage also wrote a memoir detailing his time with Washington and the Culper Spy ring.

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Well, that was frenetic. I knew that Abe was destined to get his first kill before things ended. It was telegraphed all season. I also expected Baker to die, as they had to have a couple deaths and had gone out of their way to make him sympathetic. Weirdly, I never put those two things together, though, until they were. Abe is finally showing some spine, but that really should've been apparent no more than 3 episodes along, not 8.

My favorite aspect was seeing the ring together and their not-so-faux, barbed exchanges. The four actors/characters have an excellent, appropriate rapport. Despite what we're told are longstanding relationships, it really is an uneasy alliance and makes you realize how tenuous the whole operation is...

So, there's something about Mary...I wasn't surprised at all by her response. That woman is a survivor. She will do whatever it takes to protect her son and future and anyone who get in her way be damned.

I really hope they're able to score a second chance season. The cast is terrific and the source material compelling. The writing sometimes came up to that level, too, but inconsistently, and for a show about spies, there needs to be more actual spy craft. I feel as if the showrunners didn't have much faith in low tech methods of spying being all that interesting after decades of James Bond, etc., but good writing can make even the most mundane situations intriguing, haunting, mysterious and tense, and dead drops, interceptions, disguise, etc. are hardly mundane. We know the characters now. We get their motivations, mixed, self-serving, idealistic, vengeful, whatever they may be. Now, let's see the spying overtake the domestic drama. And I agree with those up thread that the missions, spying, info gathering and military action really should be framed as a chess match between Tallmadge, Washington, etc. and Andre and his associates. We know that the climax of all of this really will be Tallmadge and Andre face to face.

I totally believed that Ben and Nathaniel were father and son in that one moment; well played by both actors.

I saw Boris McGiver and Seth Numrich play father and son in War Horse at Lincoln Center a couple years back, so I was tickled to see that casting! In an episode chock full of anvils, I totally appreciated that subtle but affecting scene, too.

Ben Tallmage also wrote a memoir detailing his time with Washington and the Culper Spy ring.

I'm fairly certain Tallmadge doesn't spill anything specifically about the Culpers in his memoir.

And last edit, truly...Burn Gorman was stellar in this one.

Edited by Kabota
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I really hope they're able to score a second chance season. The cast is terrific and the source material compelling. The writing sometimes came up to that level, too, but inconsistently, and for a show about spies, there needs to be more actual spy craft. I feel as if the showrunners didn't have much faith in low tech methods of spying being all that interesting after decades of James Bond, etc., but good writing can make even the most mundane situations intriguing, haunting, mysterious and tense, and dead drops, interceptions, disguise, etc. are hardly mundane. We know the characters now. We get their motivations, mixed, self-serving, idealistic, vengeful, whatever they may be. Now, let's see the spying overtake the domestic drama. And I agree with those up thread that the missions, spying, info gathering and military action really should be framed as a chess match between Tallmadge, Washington, etc. and Andre and his associates. We know that the climax of all of this really will be Tallmadge and Andre face to face.

 

 

It's been a while since I've studied the Culper Ring in any detail, I'm not sure if Andre ever came across Tallmadge; I'm sure they were trying to best each in the spy arena, I just don't know if they ever came face-to-face.

 

That being said, I will totally forgive the show if they manage to have the Andre and Tallmadge come face-to-face - I mean it's not like the show hasn't taken quite a few liberties with the actual facts (Anna being close in age to the three men, Abe being married, Andre in NY in 1776, having a Culper Ring in 1777) -  because it means you would have JJ Fields and Seth Numrich in a shared scene and I think that would be glorious.

 

I did like the name drop of Benedict Arnold (for the second time) and while it isn't certain what role (if any) the Culper Ring played in Arnold's eventual capture it is certain that Arnold and Andre did interact.

 

 

EDIT: Because the show put Andre in NY in 1776 and not 1176.

Burn Gorman was stellar in this one.

 

 

He was, wasn't he?.  In an episode filled with exceptional performances, his (to me) was the best.  It was nice to see Major Hewlett demonstrate that he is a competent commander as well as him struggling to maintain control in the face of SImcoe's increasing irrationality.  I think if Simcoe uttered one word more Hewlett would have pulled the baldric strap so tight he might have severed Simcoe's jaw.

 

There was so much to the delivery of the line "Just" once reinforcements arrived.

Edited by OakGoblinFly
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Who would've thunk it?  Mary has more spine than Abe!  Ha! 

 

Count me in as a new fan of Burn Gorman.  He had been consistently good throughout the season, but he sold me on every quiver of his lips and his controlled rage -- at Simcoe -- in the last episode.  I would love to see more of him next season, if there is one.

 

Selah is very handsome.  He looked goooood on the battlefield!  I think he deserves better than Anna, though.  Now that Mary has grown a pair, the Mary-Abe-Anna triangle would be more interesting, too.  I hope the series comes back for another season.

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It's been a while since I've studied the Culper Ring in any detail, I'm not sure if Andre ever came across Tallmadge; I'm sure they were trying to best each in the spy arena, I just don't know if they ever came face-to-face.

 

That being said, I will totally forgive the show if they manage to have the Andre and Tallmadge come face-to-face - I mean it's not like the show hasn't taken quite a few liberties with the actual facts (Anna being close in age to the three men, Abe being married, Andre in NY in 1776, having a Culper Ring in 1777) -  because it means you would have JJ Fields and Seth Numrich in a shared scene and I think that would be glorious.

Just in case people don't want to be spoiled with the real history,

Andre was placed in Tallmadge's custody in the days leading up to his execution.

The show doesn't seem to have many qualms about fudging things, though, so who knows how they would choose to play things out.

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Just in case people don't want to be spoiled with the real history,

Andre was placed in Tallmadge's custody in the days leading up to his execution.

The show doesn't seem to have many qualms about fudging things, though, so who knows how they would choose to play things out.

 

 

Ah thank you .... you save me the trouble of going through storage to find my old books.  

 

And while the show does run fast and loose with many of the facts, I think they get enough right.

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I hope there's an S2. I'll watch. Please do More Spy Things in S2!!! I also didn't have a problem with the lack of 'battle' if the show is showing what mostly happened in history. 

 

I had no problem with Abe's kill and I was yelling at him to shoot. Abe said a few times this season that this was 'his house' so there was some anger there. I was surprised a little that the wife whipped up a plan so fast, but it was decent. I hope she comes around and stops with all the "law, treason, blah blah" BS. 

 

I was laughing because you have to have all the spies have a secret meeting somehow and I could see how (I forget the name) the Rebel Commander was spinning his wheels to get the four of them alone. With hilarious results. This show needs Pissy Abe. When he gets like that he gets shit done. 

 

I have no idea why Simcoe became so unhinged. I get that he didn't agree with the strategy but Major Burn Gorman seemed to want to minimize casualties. Simcoe was partially correct that they had the upper hand in terms of position, but I think a full on battle would have been messy and caused more collateral damage than anything. It wasn't worth it. 

I don't know how you keep Simcoe there. He defied orders and murder a prisoner. 

 

I don't have much interest in the queen's rangers storyline, so except for the Benedict Arnold name-drop, I didn't really care about that scene. 

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I have a grudge against RL Tallmadge.

After his time with Andre as prisoner, he spent the rest of his life
bad-mouthing John Paulding, the guy made the capture. (And no, there was no
prior knowledge of the plot amongst the patriot spies. Andre was caught by a
combination of luck and Paulding's intuition -- and the fact that he alone among
his militia-mates could read and could make sense of the paperwork Andre
carried.) Whether it was professional jealousy or class prejudice, it tarnished
the reputation of a guy who didn't deserve it, and who, bee tee dubs, saved
West Monkeyfighting Point.

Edited by attica

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I was a little surprised that Mary was quite so quick to come up with "Let's burn this MFer down!" as the best way to clean up the mess.  But can't argue with her logic.

 

What is up with Maj Andre's little side-braid?  Was that fashionable back then, or is he someone's Padawan?

 

Good performance by Major Trask (for the Revenge fans).  He got a little revenge for losing his horse, even if he didn't know that.

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I have no idea why Simcoe became so unhinged.

 

He primarily wanted to get back at Ben and Caleb because they were the one's torturing him during his capture, and were going to kill him until the other commander arrived.  So Simcoe mostly wanted to kill their relatives as revenge.  The other petition signers were just extra.

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I was a little surprised that Mary was quite so quick to come up with "Let's burn this MFer down!" as the best way to clean up the mess.  But can't argue with her logic.

 

What is up with Maj Andre's little side-braid?  Was that fashionable back then, or is he someone's Padawan?

 

Good performance by Major Trask (for the Revenge fans).  He got a little revenge for losing his horse, even if he didn't know that.

 

 

Mary was quick-thinking wasn't she?  It annoys me that so much of the show was wasted on the Abe-Anna "love" story.  The powers-that-be missed so much potential story telling centered around Mary.  I understand why the show made Abe married (he wasn't when he was a member of the Culper Ring) as that raises the personal stakes for him: not only does he have to hide his activities from the British, his father, and the rest of the Loyalists, he also has to hide them from his wife.  No need to bring Anna as the childhood sweetheart who got away (never mind the fact that the real Anna was ten years older).

 

I don't know if a mini-braid was fashionable or not, I am just glad they put a better wig on JJ Fields: the one he wore in the first episode was pretty horrific.

 

Burn Gorman will always be Owen Harper to me.

Edited by OakGoblinFly
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I know Simcoe wanted revenge, but he went off the rails pretty fast. Taking the hostages and putting them in the windows was 'dishonorable' practice in war back then, but blowing someone's brains out in front of the enemy in plain sight is wack-o in any time period. 

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I think childhood sweethearts kept apart by circumstance is tough to pull off in general. I see what TPTB wanted/want to do, but you need the actors & their chemistry to be spot on & the alternative for either party to be clearly less. I think the chemistry with Jamie & Heather isn't up to par & Mary & Selah aren't anywhere near less enough for Abe & Anna to be the couple that makes me not empathize with Mary's powerless stature in society at the time & Selah given his wife jumped Abe the day she was told he died in prison.

I look at Mary & think why wouldn't she want to live in the manse & protect her position at all costs. I didn't like Selah telling Anna what to do, but when put in the context of the time & the danger Anna invites by remaining in Setauket, I understood it.

I enjoyed the cellar scene for many reasons, but it was what I felt in Seth Numrich's performance as Ben toward Abe & Anna that stuck out. It was like Ben was choking on that apology for not telling Anna about Selah. His only brother dies allowing her husband to live & Anna clearly didn't want him back. Selah is also now his loyal comrade -- survivor's guilt over Samuel likely plays a part in how Selah tries to play wingman for Ben -- & comrades don't like their buddies' cheating wives. Factor in that Ben is the son of a reverend & his demonstrated morality with having just met Abe's attractive wife & beautiful son. I felt he was almost grossed out by Anna & Abe. I liked it seeing as I am too.

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Seeing Hewlett stuff a gag in Simcoe's mouth was all kinds of awesome!! If he knew Simcoe had killed his horse, that jerk would be dead already.

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I really thought everyone would have been happier if Mary had run off with Baker.  There was clearly some chemistry between them, which is probably why her reaction to his being shot in front of her was surprising.  She wasn't like "Holy crap, you shot a man... A decent man!", it was more like "Sucks to be him, light a candle and watch this place burn!".

 

The relationship between Abe and Anna was an icky plot device, but it paralleled Abe's conflict about the revolution.  With Anna, he made a choice out of a sense of loyalty that he later regretted by leaving her to marry his brother's fiancee.  Such an arrangement was quite traditional, even mentioned in the Old Testament.  So Abe passed up "true love"(=freedom) to do his duty.  Now he faces another dilemma where he must choose between loyalty to the Crown and his sense that the Crown has overstepped its bounds.

 

It is interesting how the show portrays both sides as being more than just white hats and black hats (or in this case, blue coats and red coats).   

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Eh. I don't have much to give for the redcoats. They're living in other people's houses and expect to be fed and have their clothes washed. They took over the church and they ripped out the gravestones for a mindfuck when perfectly good stone was lying around in the woods. 

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18th century America is sort of a pet period, and finding good historical fiction -- let alone television -- catering to this interest is very challenging, so I followed this show through thick and thin (and there was a lot of the latter). I'm not sure it deserved renewal -- so many bizarre story decisions and footfalls -- but I have to say I really enjoyed the final episode.

 

I'll definitely watch the first few eps, at least, of the next one, so see if the show continues to improve.

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