Kim Richards: No Escape from Witch Mountain

[becauseIsaidso]

 

I can't for the life of me, understand why there is so many negative feelings toward Kim from the viewing audience?????

Besides her children and herself who is she really hurting??????

I don't consider kimmie to be doing me any harm whatever - she is far too insignificant for that....my reason for having negative feelings toward her comes from her own behaviors, as seen on TV (to borrow a phrase) and, most importantly, from the fact that she relentlessly demands that everyone view her as 'sober', as having spent years working on her 'sobriety' and/or in 'rehab', believe all the lies about her arrests etc,  and has been nasty and aggresive/assaultive toward anyone and everyone who dares to challenge her absolute sobriety or suggest she may simply be a bit 'altered'.  If kimmie wants to drink/drug/whatever, she's welcome to it, fine by me...(I love the occasional teeny buzz from my vodka or wine; but when I choose to do it, I neither hide it nor worry about it, and my recollection of events ALWAYS fits perfectly with the opinions of those around me whose regard I respect) - just stop lying about it...if she is so locked into the lies, bravo needs to get her the fuck off my tv....

[MatildaMoody]

 

This scene gets brought up periodically so I just want to be sure I'm thinking of that to which you refer*. Are you speaking of the gathering when Kim tried to leave with Brandi who had a plate of pizza and Kyle went after them and grabbed Brandi's arm on the steps? And the pizza went a-flyin' and Brandi pushed Kyle away and Kyle stumbled back down the stairs in her too-high shoes? That's entirely on Idiot Kyle who should have let Kim leave. No matter role Kyle feels she plays in Kim's life, in that moment it wasn't her call or her place to detain her sister.

I remember this very differently. Kim had followed Kyle into the bathroom and went on and on about her taking one of Monty's pills and Kyle had tried to get Kim to cover her mic. But, she was also glad that Kim was at least honest with her (at least in her talking head) about having taken something that evening and seemed to understand that was where Kim's behavior was coming from. Kim then told Brandi that she was having Deja Vu and was implying that Kyle had set her up somehow. 

So, Kim dramatically enters the kitchen, sarcastically yelling "thanks alot" at Kyle. Kyle and everyone else in the kitchen were extremely confused about why Kim was upset. They all try to convince her to get something to eat before she left and Brandi grabbed some pizza and started herding Kim out of the house. Kyle went to ask Kim what was wrong and tried to see if Kim would come talk to her and Brandi basically body checked Kyle to keep her from talking to her sister. Kyle was begging both Brandi and Kim to just tell her what was going on Brandi body checked her again so Kyle grabbed her arm. That was when Brandi pushed Kyle and Kyle almost twisted her ankle in her too high heels slipping off of the step.

To your point in bold, I think the same is true of Brandi. It wasn't Brandi's place or call to just decide that Kyle should not talk directly to her sister. It certainly wasn't her place or call to physically bar Kyle from doing so. Kim even went back to talk to Kyle and Brandi was still trying to prevent it when the three of them were outside. That was when we got that hilarious moment of Vince looking out the garage window to see what the hell was going on outside. 

[Umbelina]

Kyle was obviously trying to drag an impaired Kim BACK to the cameras. 

[walnutqueen]

MatildaMoody, you have excellent recall.  That is how I remember it, too.

 

 

Kyle was obviously trying to drag an impaired Kim BACK to the cameras. 

 

That was not at all obvious to me.

[Vicky8675309]

there were cameras inside and outside....aren't there cameras in the vehicles as well? Kyle indicating to Kim to cover the microphone to protect herself (kim) from exposing her intoxication was seen/heard (objective evidence) whereas this subjective forcing of Kim "back" to the cameras directly conflicts with the objective evidence of Kyle's actions which support a pro-Kim motive.

[Umbelina]

No cameras in the vehicles when Kim was leaving.  Or we would have seen it.

 

Yes, memories are odd, aren't they?

[Vicky8675309]

why would we have seen it? They edited out a lot of Kim's drunken antics. We only saw small bits of the vehicle ride with Lisa R. They just recently released some of the season 1 footage where you hear Kim freaking out in the hotel lobby and see a frazzled producer talking about how out of control Kim is in the lobby. What about the hotel antics overseas that are referenced but we never see...something about her without pants on or something like that. It sounds like production has been very protective about Kim (likely due to pressure exerted by both Kim and Kyle on behalf of Kim). Memories can be refreshed by watching the episodes again and reading the blogs and articles written at the time. Biases and perspectives are what are interesting (or "odd").

[Umbelina]

Yes, but luckily we can go to the video tape on lots of it, like Kyle grabbing at Kim, and trying to get her to come back inside "to talk."  If she wanted to talk, and was so concerned, she could have just got in the limo with Kim.

 

Oh wait, no cameras ready for that...

[WireWrap]

No cameras in the vehicles when Kim was leaving.  Or we would have seen it.

 

Yes, memories are odd, aren't they?

We did see Kim/Brandi in the limo leaving Eileen/Vince poker party. Brandi told Kim she WAS acting crazy! We also heard Brandi tell Kim that Kyle was the bad sister and that she, Brandi, was more of a sister to her than Kyle/was/is and she restated that "Kathy would never do this" to Kim in the limo that night!

Yes, but luckily we can go to the video tape on lots of it, like Kyle grabbing at Kim, and trying to get her to come back inside "to talk."  If she wanted to talk, and was so concerned, she could have just got in the limo with Kim.

 

Oh wait, no cameras ready for that...

 

Kyle didn't ask Kim to "come back inside to talk", she asked Kim to "talk to her" and when Kim finally did so, Kyle tried to cover their mics once again. Kyle wanted to get Kim off mic, cameras or not the mics reveal more and Kyle knows that as does Brandi who could care less what she says ON mic.

[zoeysmom]

No cameras in the vehicles when Kim was leaving.  Or we would have seen it.

 

Yes, memories are odd, aren't they?

Just to refresh your memory there was footage of stoned Kim and drunk Brandi leaving Eileen's and their babble on the way home.  So yes there were cameras. 

[zoeysmom]

Yes, but luckily we can go to the video tape on lots of it, like Kyle grabbing at Kim, and trying to get her to come back inside "to talk."  If she wanted to talk, and was so concerned, she could have just got in the limo with Kim.

 

Oh wait, no cameras ready for that...

In the lost footage there are scenes of Brandi and Kim still hanging out in Eileen's kitchen bugging Eileen and Vince.  Kyle and Lisar are long gone and so began the endless lectures by Lisar to a very silent Kyle about addiction.

 

Just so everyone knows the cameras in the SUVs are there all the time-it is very common in livery vehicles.  Bravo just adds sound to the vehicle's camera system.   

[SCS]

I often see it said that certain women are lucky that they don't try certain behavior from women on ATL or NJ because they'd get their asses handed to them. As if the women on the other franchises are shrinking violets who aren't more than capable of delivering similar behavior. 

I imagine that's because Tamballs flinging her cyst-and-decease paperwork, Ramona's oar toss and Aviva's prosthetic-as-projectile missile pales in comparison to table flips, christening knock-down-drag-em-outs, wig snatching, bus lunges and comments like, "I will throw you over this sofa."

Or perhaps not.

 

Going with the idea though that Kyle is lucky she didn't pull that shit on some other woman--Brandi is equally lucky that Kyle isn't the type of person to have a stronger reaction when it comes to body blocking someone and refusing to allow them to go where they want to go. Brandi was the first one to use her body to touch Kyle. Brandi physically used her body to keep Kyle from going where she wanted to go. Brandi is not the person who gets to choose who goes where. She used to body to physically keep Kyle from talking to Kim. There are some women who would've snatched Brandi by her weave after she pulled that shit. Obviously that would not have been the right thing to do but the idea that Kyle was the first one to be out of order here isn't what I saw at all. Brandi got physical first and when Kyle asked her not to block her, Brandi refused and kept using her body to make Kyle do what she wanted. 

 

Brandi didn't stop there. She grabbed Kyle and pushed her down the stairs. When they were outside she repeatedly intimidated Kyle physically and grabbed her arms again. She wouldn't stop and Kim didn't give a shit. She didn't give a shit while it was going on and she didn't give a shit when she saw it after the fact. She continually defended Brandi even after seeing Brandi get physical with her sister. Contrast that to Kyle defending Kim against Brandi in season 2. I've definitely see a lot more of Kyle defending Kim than Kim defending Kyle. 

Rashomon!

 

 

[Umbelina]

Oops, told you memory can be tricky.  I still do not think Kyle was doing anything other to get another "poor me" scene at Kim's expense.  If she was SO worried, why not leave with her?  Or follow her?

[Cosmic Muffin]

I think Kyle thought Kim was drunk and was trying to get some food into her to help soak up the alcohol.

[WireWrap]

Oops, told you memory can be tricky.  I still do not think Kyle was doing anything other to get another "poor me" scene at Kim's expense.  If she was SO worried, why not leave with her?  Or follow her?

IMO, Kyle was willing to leave with Kim until Brandi grabbed Kyle's wrists outside in front of the garage doors and Kim didn't stop her or tell her, Brandi, to leave Kyle alone. That was when Kyle decided enough was enough and she had to step away from Kim. It wasn't Kyle playing "poor me", it was Kyle genuinely confused, hurt and upset because Kim went from zero to warp speed at Kyle with tons of encouragement from Brandi. Oh, and Kyle did follow Kim outside but Brandi refused to allow Kyle to get near Kim or to talk too Kim in private.  

[sistermagpie]

It wasn't Kyle playing "poor me", it was Kyle genuinely confused, hurt and upset because Kim went from zero to warp speed at Kyle with tons of encouragement from Brandi.

 

 

Yeah, whatever Kyle was doing Brandi and Kim were both totally starting scenes. Kim pretty much decided to march into the kitchen and dramatically accuse Kyle of doing something to her when Kyle hadn't actually done anything, as I remember, and then Brandi went into drunk girl defending drunker girl at the party mode. Like suddenly Brandi had to protect Kim from Kyle, I guess working off Kim's cue, even though Kyle hadn't actually done anything.

 

Of course, it would have been a bit more satisfying if Kyle just didn't bite. Like when Kim came in and said, "Thanks a lot!" if she'd just rolled her eyes at whatever drama Kim was trying to start, but Kyle jumped at her cue. I just don't think she knew the script in advance the way Brandi and Kim did.

[WireWrap]

Yeah, whatever Kyle was doing Brandi and Kim were both totally starting scenes. Kim pretty much decided to march into the kitchen and dramatically accuse Kyle of doing something to her when Kyle hadn't actually done anything, as I remember, and then Brandi went into drunk girl defending drunker girl at the party mode. Like suddenly Brandi had to protect Kim from Kyle, I guess working off Kim's cue, even though Kyle hadn't actually done anything.

 

Of course, it would have been a bit more satisfying if Kyle just didn't bite. Like when Kim came in and said, "Thanks a lot!" if she'd just rolled her eyes at whatever drama Kim was trying to start, but Kyle jumped at her cue. I just don't think she knew the script in advance the way Brandi and Kim did.

When Kyle/Kim came out of the bathroom, Brandi was right there waiting for Kim and started to wind her up and that is when/why Kim started to suspect Kyle was up to no good, Brandi put that idea/notion in her head. Kim then went into the kitchen and snapped at Kyle and Eileen, Vince and LisaR all looked at Kyle like she had done/said something to upset Kim and Kyle was confused. She, Kyle, looked like someone had just dumped ice cold water on her for no reason. Kyle then knew the cat was out of the bag as far as Kim's sobriety not only with her but with all the others as well and, IMO, it scared/shocked her. She did react without thinking though. It would have been better for her to ignore or laugh off Kim's outburst in the kitchen but Kyle is so condition to correct/clean up after/care for Kim that she went into damage repair mode which only made things worse.

[Yours Truly]

This scene gets brought up periodically so I just want to be sure I'm thinking of that to which you refer*. Are you speaking of the gathering when Kim tried to leave with Brandi who had a plate of pizza and Kyle went after them and grabbed Brandi's arm on the steps? And the pizza went a-flyin' and Brandi pushed Kyle away and Kyle stumbled back down the stairs in her too-high shoes? That's entirely on Idiot Kyle who should have let Kim leave. No matter role Kyle feels she plays in Kim's life, in that moment it wasn't her call or her place to detain her sister. On a more basic level, Kyle was very lucky that she pulled that hands-on stuff with Brandi, as the same action with one of the NJ or ATL harridans might have earned her a trip to the ER and a 3rd rhinoplasty.

 

 

Thank you!! It's nice to see that someone saw that scene the way it actually went down. Kyle was the aggressor in that whole mess. Sure Kim was agitated and gasp had a quick, parting comment to Kyle but honestly? The decision to not let Kim leave and have a confrontation right then and there  (which became a reoccurring theme for Kyle especially that season I might add) was the most deliberate display of "oh this is too good for the cameras to miss" messiness that Kyle started to really get into as the seasons went on. And in her haste she's the one that grabbed at Brandi's arm forcefully enough that Brandi actually teetered backwards and the force on her arm caused the pizza to go flying. Kyle stumbled down those stairs because while Brandi was getting her balance back she was also pushing away her offender.

 

It's always been magical to me the way that scene somehow turned into Brandi being the aggressive one because she was walking behind Kim and body blocking Kyle from being able to do something similar to Kim which was grab at her so that she wouldn't leave and HAVE to have a confrontation with her right there. Kyle tends to get grabby I've noticed on a couple of occasions and to be honest I thought Brandi wanting to get Kim home and away from Kyle was a genuine moment and a smart move but we know how that all turned out. And of course Brandi ruined it later on in the argument which then completely buried her initial good intentions.

Edited March 14, 2016 by Yours Truly

[Yours Truly]

IMHO, there are cold hearted people and some who have compassion toward the sick.

Having grown with a mother very much like Kim, I think that having compassion toward my mother enables me to grow without becoming too hard or bitter.

My aunt was exactly like Kyle and while I can still remember my mother vile drunken tirades, I have yet to understand the rage my aunt felt toward my alcoholic mother.

My own mother also peaked early in her life and by the time she died, she pretty much lived in the past.

I can't for the life of me, understand why there is so many negative feelings toward Kim from the viewing audience?????

Besides her children and herself who is she really hurting??????

And please, spare me the bullshit about affecting her coworkers.

There are a bunch of drama queens reveling in attention and the story lines that Kim afford them.

So weird.

This completely sums it up for me.

 

Bravo!

[WireWrap]

Thank you!! It's nice to see that someone saw that scene the way it actually went down. Kyle was the aggressor in that whole mess. Sure Kim was agitated and gasp had a quick, parting comment to Kyle but honestly? The decision to not let Kim leave and have a confrontation right then and there  (which became a reoccurring them for Kyle especially that season I might add) was the most deliberate display of "oh this is too good for the cameras to miss" messiness that Kyle started to really getting into as the seasons went on. And in her haste she's the one that grabbed at Brandi's arm forcefully enough that Brandi actually teetered backwards and the force on her arm caused the pizza to go flying. Kyle stumbled down those stairs because while Brandi was getting her balance back she was also pushing away her offender.

 

It's always been magical to me the way that scene somehow turned into Brandi being the aggressive one because she was walking behind Kim and body blocking Kyle from being able to do something similar to Kim which was grab at her so that she wouldn't leave and HAVE to have a confrontation with her right there. Kyle tends to get grabby I've noticed on a couple of occasions and to be honest I thought Brandi wanting to get Kim home and away from Kyle was a genuine moment and a smart move but we know how that all turned out. And of course Brandi ruined it later on in the argument which then completely buried her initial good intentions.

I disagree that Brandi was only body blocking Kyle. She actually put her arm into Kyle to stop Kyle from getting near her sister and that was how the pizza went flying. It was not some innocent "let me stand between Kyle/Kim" but a physical push back with her arm and it happened twice before Kyle grabbed that arm and tried to slide past Brandi. The whole time Brandi is doing this she is telling Kim she will protect her from her sister and that Kyle is the bad sister. Brandi wound both Kim and Kyle up in an attempt to control Kim and hurt Kyle.  

[Yours Truly]

Kyle was obviously trying to drag an impaired Kim BACK to the cameras. 

This was my take as well. It wasn't for all that but for the sake of justifying Kyles behavior Kim's "thanks a lot" and Brandi's shielding Kim so she could just get out of there since Kim obviously needs to get home was just so "abrasively rude", "outlandish" and "inappropriate" that Kyle just HAD TO get to the bottom of it right then and there. Like really? What's wrong Kim, tell me what's wrong? Um Kyle, Kim just told you so you know she's inebriated but Nooooo, she couldn't just check her own feelings and let the addict leave with her high ass? No? So it was Kyle's right to cause more of a scene for what reason again?? Oh yeah, that's right the camera's and the immediate audience she already had with the other ladies. The whole time I was staring at my TV like, what in the world, I'm not understanding why Kyle isn't letting her sister get the hell out of dodge, I mean I get that Kyle is annoyed and frustrated but still, I kept thinking, wait, hold on, Kyle's trying to hold her back......... FOR THAT? To talk about THAT when she knows damn well the bitch is high? What does she think she's going to get from Kim at such a bad time?......then the light bulb hits me... ooohhhhhhhh  Then I thought, I guess she's ready for her close up and can't pass up the opportunity to climb up on that cross for the cameras AND the new cast members...

 

And the newbies didn't disappoint either. They ran with that shit all season. Oh me oh my there's something going on with Kim......We  ALL neeeeeeeed to get to the bottom of it........

Hook, line, sinker! And Kyle hung back on the side lines for the most part, with her big eyes, scared twitching, hiding behind napkins and frog tears while the others had a go at her.

Edited March 14, 2016 by Yours Truly

[kokapetl]

I disagree that Brandi was only body blocking Kyle. She actually put her arm into Kyle to stop Kyle from getting near her sister and that was how the pizza went flying. It was not some innocent "let me stand between Kyle/Kim" but a physical push back with her arm and it happened twice before Kyle grabbed that arm and tried to slide past Brandi. The whole time Brandi is doing this she is telling Kim she will protect her from her sister and that Kyle is the bad sister. Brandi wound both Kim and Kyle up in an attempt to control Kim and hurt Kyle.

I went and watched the pizza scene on Hulu. Kim had told Kyle to stay away from her. As Kim walks to the car, Kyle is pestering Kim to stay, Kim is saying nothing, and Brandi is in between, telling Kyle to "stop it", and has her arms extended, she has pizza in one hand, and a slider in the other. Kyle grabs Brandi's upper arm and pulls it back, Brandi tells her to not fucking touch her. Kyle does it again, the pizza goes flying, and Brandi grabs Kyle's hand with her pizza free hand and pushes it back towards Kyle's upper body, Kyle is pushed back. Kyle made it physical.

[zoeysmom]

I went and watched the pizza scene on Hulu. Kim had told Kyle to stay away from her. As Kim walks to the car, Kyle is pestering Kim to stay, Kim is saying nothing, and Brandi is in between, telling Kyle to "stop it", and has her arms extended, she has pizza in one hand, and a slider in the other. Kyle grabs Brandi's upper arm and pulls it back, Brandi tells her to not fucking touch her. Kyle does it again, the pizza goes flying, and Brandi grabs Kyle's hand with her pizza free hand and pushes it back towards Kyle's upper body, Kyle is pushed back. Kyle made it physical.

 

Touching someone's arm is not the same has pushing someone. And Brandi did more than push -she pulled Kyle towards her and then pushed her back.  Brandi was ready to go a few more rounds in the driveway. 

 

Inside the house, the biggest factor here to me has more to do with why in the hell would you let your sister, who is under the influence of drugs, go off with a drunken, aggressive Brandi?  There is just no way I would want a love one to go off with a drunken mess like Brandi.  As the situation escalated and time passed it seemed to be the only solution as Brandi and Kim elected to stay on at Eileen's but initially it did not look like a good idea for those two to pair up. Their blithering in the n the way home the deal.  Kim apparently did not recover from the incident as she went into the hospital for 5,7, or 9 days.

[Yours Truly]

I went and watched the pizza scene on Hulu. Kim had told Kyle to stay away from her. As Kim walks to the car, Kyle is pestering Kim to stay, Kim is saying nothing, and Brandi is in between, telling Kyle to "stop it", and has her arms extended, she has pizza in one hand, and a slider in the other. Kyle grabs Brandi's upper arm and pulls it back, Brandi tells her to not fucking touch her. Kyle does it again, the pizza goes flying, and Brandi grabs Kyle's hand with her pizza free hand and pushes it back towards Kyle's upper body, Kyle is pushed back. Kyle made it physical.

Absolutely agree!!! First physical contact was made by Kyle. Her arms were up and she slid her body half in front of Kyle behind Kim. I love how this is equated with some Sumo move. It was benign enough but that grab at Brandi not once but TWICE that Kyle did seems to be considered the benign move cause Brandi all but "body slammed" Kyle into forcing Kyle to have that reaction. Oh well, Kims the addict Brandi's trash and Kyle has every right to react badly because well poor Kyle.

 

That scene although very ridiculous and stupid seemed pretty organic but man oh man it is what it is.

 

Kims high

Brandi's impulsive

Kyle's dramatic

 

It could have been handled better but it wasn't however what really annoys is how they took that night and spun it into a million different slights and offenses etc. etc. instead of everyone looking at it for the sad display it really was.

 

An addict with a problem

A frustrated sister

A high strung friend with bad judgement (referring to her injecting herself into Kim and Kyle's discussion afterwards)

 

It was a bad night with some unacceptable behavior and instead of just acknowledging that everyone is pretending that their behavior was A OK when in reality they all had shit to apologize for so that's what really gets under my skin. The inability of any of these women to recall a situation accurately or with the correct amount of maturity or accountability AND THEN expecting some sort of resolution. Well first they all just have to grow up, grow a pair acknowledge their own part of the situation and get on with it otherwise what's the fucking point? There's always some confrontation where the one doing the confronting seems to think they are absolutely squeaky clean in the matter and all that does is make the other party hesitant to own anything cause their thinking "Fuck That I'm not taking the blame for EVERYTHING so forget it I'm not coping to shit until blah blah blah admits they were wrong too...." That's the ugly cycle folks.

Touching someone's arm is not the same has pushing someone. And Brandi did more than push -she pulled Kyle towards her and then pushed her back.  Brandi was ready to go a few more rounds in the driveway. 

Because Kyle GRABBED her twice, not just touched her and the second time with enough force to affect Brandi's balance and send the pizza flying.

 

Why does this point kept being omitted?

 

Grabbing isn't some ticklish demure maneuver. It can be quite painful, violent and off putting and from what I saw it look pretty obvious to me that Kyle was grabbing Brandi's arm. Add fingernails into the description and I doubt the "touching" Kyle was doing to Brandi didn't come with at least a bit of pain (albeit a scratch or a quick jolting pain from the grab) but pain nonetheless and that's just not okay.

Edited March 14, 2016 by Yours Truly

[kokapetl]

Touching someone's arm is not the same has pushing someone. And Brandi did more than push -she pulled Kyle towards her and then pushed her back. Brandi was ready to go a few more rounds in the driveway.

Kyle didn't merely touch Brandi's arm, she grabbed it twice, and the second time was immediately after being told by Brandi to not fucking touch her. Had Brandi not grabbed Kyle's hand and pushed her away, Kyle likely would've tried for another grab, Brandi didn't have to tolerate that, the steps she took to stop Kyle from continuing to grab her were reasonable. Edited March 14, 2016 by Kokapetl

[jinjer]

It's omitted because Brandi is a bad, drunken, obnoxious slut who only does bad things, and everything Brandi does is bad. She's slutty.  She got drunk and showed a tampon string ON PURPOSE!!!! She did it on purpose! She knew it was there and showed it! Because she was drunk! Anything Brandi touches is wrong! Everyone of them drink around Kim including her sister, but if Brandi does, it's bad! Kyle only touched Brandi's arm.  She didn't grab her twice.  She only touched her, softly with angels kisses.  Sweet, innocent Kyle who never menaces anyone with that stubby finger in someone's face. I don't even think she put her hand on Brandi's arm; she merely tapped her on the shoulder and said, "Excuse me madam, would you graciously let me pass so that I might speak with my sister please?"

[zoeysmom]

Kyle didn't merely touch Brandi's arm, she grabbed it twice, and the second time was immediately after being told by Brandi to not fucking touch her. Had Brandi not grabbed Kyle's hand and pushed her away, Kyle likely would've tried for another grab, Brandi didn't have to tolerate that, the steps she took to stop Kyle from continuing to grab her were reasonable.

Pushing someone down the stairs is  "reasonable"?  Grabbing someone's arm at best is going to leave a bruise.  Pushing someone away, when you have about an eight inch height advantage, could have easily have ended with Kyle melon being split open.   BTW, with this group I don't think anyone should touch, poke, or otherwise physically engage.  A drunken Brandi wasn't protecting someone else, she was moving Kim along to get out the door and be quiet.     A lesson Brandi would learn later in the season you can't touch people.

 

Brandi continuing out in the driveway was unnecessary.  She had no business, due to her drunken state, to be Kim's de facto guardian.  I believe that was the bigger issue.  Brandi and Kim behaving like assholes much of the evening, something which neither apologized for, to me was why the two of them needed to be settled down.  If Kim wants to go through life behaving like an asshole then she can't turn around and point fingers at the others for talking about it.  I think had Brandi been removed from the situation (as in put in a limo), Kim would have had an opportunity to be a little more complacent.  At that point in the evening no one had been obnoxious to either Kim or Brandi that was on them.

[zoeysmom]

It's omitted because Brandi is a bad, drunken, obnoxious slut who only does bad things, and everything Brandi does is bad. She's slutty.  She got drunk and showed a tampon string ON PURPOSE!!!! She did it on purpose! She knew it was there and showed it! Because she was drunk! Anything Brandi touches is wrong! Everyone of them drink around Kim including her sister, but if Brandi does, it's bad! Kyle only touched Brandi's arm.  She didn't grab her twice.  She only touched her, softly with angels kisses.  Sweet, innocent Kyle who never menaces anyone with that stubby finger in someone's face. I don't even think she put her hand on Brandi's arm; she merely tapped her on the shoulder and said, "Excuse me madam, would you graciously let me pass so that I might speak with my sister please?"

Has there ever been a time when anyone as been drunk-and  just exploded on Kim?  Have any of the other women (other than Taylor) been so drunk they were slurring their words or being out and out insulting at a dinner table?  I think only Kim's good friend Brandi has managed to behave that way-there is a difference between drinking and getting plastered, something Brandi and Kim cannot discern.

 

Shocked at the slut shaming of Brandi.    I don't know about Brandi's wardrobe choices but she had the same dress on in Palm Springs and it was falling off her then, when she was drunk. I had never thought of it being an intentional choice but now that you bring it up maybe it was.   

[Sincerely Yours]

It's omitted because Brandi is a bad, drunken, obnoxious slut who only does bad things, and everything Brandi does is bad. She's slutty.  She got drunk and showed a tampon string ON PURPOSE!!!! She did it on purpose! She knew it was there and showed it! Because she was drunk! Anything Brandi touches is wrong! Everyone of them drink around Kim including her sister, but if Brandi does, it's bad! Kyle only touched Brandi's arm.  She didn't grab her twice.  She only touched her, softly with angels kisses.  Sweet, innocent Kyle who never menaces anyone with that stubby finger in someone's face. I don't even think she put her hand on Brandi's arm; she merely tapped her on the shoulder and said, "Excuse me madam, would you graciously let me pass so that I might speak with my sister please?"

Awesome! This had me in a serious fit of giggles...Loved it!! 

[sistermagpie]

Kyle isn't particularly sweet and innocent but it still seems bizarre to me to have a situation where we saw Brandi and Kim work themselves up from nothing to decide that Kyle had done something, go in and confront her about it, and then the ensuing scene of Kyle demanding to talk about it becomes Kyle orchestrating a scene to get Kim drunk on camera and play the victim. It still really does sound like Kyle's always supposed to put Kim looking good at top priority. Sure Kim was obviously high and trying to provoke Kyle the whole night, but Kyle should still instinctively be trying to get Kim bundled out to the car. She's like the perennial older sister who's always supposed to know better while the baby can't be as responsible.

 

I don't honestly think anybody was completely faking anything here. I think Kyle has been trained her whole life to show concern when Kim gets "ornery" and to want to be on good terms with her rather than let her leave in anger without knowing what's going on. Likewise I think Kim can easily convince herself within seconds that someone has committed a grave offense against her out of nothing. And Brandi, imo, probably was really feeling like the hero avenger when she was "protecting" Kim against Kyle wanting to speak to her. So yeah, I think Kim and Brandi were totally believing in that moment that Kyle was the enemy and attacking Kim again and she Knew What She Did--but I also think that both of them have the pov because it suits their own purposes. I think they see Kyle as needing to be corrected pretty much as default.

[Yours Truly]

Pushing someone down the stairs is  "reasonable"?  Grabbing someone's arm at best is going to leave a bruise.  Pushing someone away, when you have about an eight inch height advantage, could have easily have ended with Kyle melon being split open.   BTW, with this group I don't think anyone should touch, poke, or otherwise physically engage.  A drunken Brandi wasn't protecting someone else, she was moving Kim along to get out the door and be quiet.     A lesson Brandi would learn later in the season you can't touch people.

 

Brandi continuing out in the driveway was unnecessary.  She had no business, due to her drunken state, to be Kim's de facto guardian.  I believe that was the bigger issue.  Brandi and Kim behaving like assholes much of the evening, something which neither apologized for, to me was why the two of them needed to be settled down.  If Kim wants to go through life behaving like an asshole then she can't turn around and point fingers at the others for talking about it.  I think had Brandi been removed from the situation (as in put in a limo), Kim would have had an opportunity to be a little more complacent.  At that point in the evening no one had been obnoxious to either Kim or Brandi that was on them.

That's all well and good but at the end of the day drunk or not. KYLE put her hands on Brandi. Yeah the night was full of ridiculous hijinx. Loud and rude behaviors but nothing worthy of the way Kyle was aggressively pursuing Kim and even less worthy of the ridiculous altercation that came out of KYLE'S bad judgement in that moment where she decided to unnecessarily cause a scene by trying to confront Kim and ended up MANHANDLING Brandi in the process. Describing how ill behaved "the children" were throughout the night doesn't really lead up to absolving what Kyle did in that moment. It just doesn't. Especially when the act of them leaving was probably the best thing for all of them. Why mess with what looked to be a welcome relief to the awkwardness of the evening? That's the part that really stands out as suspect and complete bullshit.

Edited March 14, 2016 by Yours Truly

[zoeysmom]

That's all well and good but at the end of the day drunk or not. KYLE put her hands on Brandi. Yeah the night was full of ridiculous hijinx. Loud and rude behaviors but nothing worthy of the way Kyle was aggressively pursuing Kim and even less worthy of the ridiculous altercation that came out of KYLE'S bad judgement in that moment where she decided she needed to cause an unnecessary scene by trying to confront Kim and MANHANDLING Brandi in the process. Describing how ill behaved "the children" were throughout the night doesn't really lead up to absolving what Kyle did in that moment. It just doesn't.

So Kyle is not absolved I am not getting what that means in the bigger picture?  It was only Kim and Brandi that misbehaved and were rude and insulting throughout the evening. Kyle excused herself and Kim followed.  Perhaps Kyle thought she had the same right to pursue Kim as Kim had to pursue her to the bathroom. 

 

I am not getting how Brandi and Kim's inebriated behavior is all of a sudden absolved because Kyle touched Brandi.  She didn't manhandle her she grabbed her arm-at the most.   The insults to Kyle, Vince, Eileen and Lisar had already been dished out by Kim and Brandi.   In spite of their insults they were trying to be polite in offering some food to the two drunkards to help sober them up.  Did we ever see Brandi go back and clean up her mess on the Van Patten's floor?  Boorish behavior is boorish behavior. 

[kokapetl]

Pushing someone down the stairs is "reasonable"? Grabbing someone's arm at best is going to leave a bruise. Pushing someone away, when you have about an eight inch height advantage, could have easily have ended with Kyle melon being split open. BTW, with this group I don't think anyone should touch, poke, or otherwise physically engage. A drunken Brandi wasn't protecting someone else, she was moving Kim along to get out the door and be quiet. A lesson Brandi would learn later in the season you can't touch people.

Brandi continuing out in the driveway was unnecessary. She had no business, due to her drunken state, to be Kim's de facto guardian. I believe that was the bigger issue. Brandi and Kim behaving like assholes much of the evening, something which neither apologized for, to me was why the two of them needed to be settled down. If Kim wants to go through life behaving like an asshole then she can't turn around and point fingers at the others for talking about it. I think had Brandi been removed from the situation (as in put in a limo), Kim would have had an opportunity to be a little more complacent. At that point in the evening no one had been obnoxious to either Kim or Brandi that was on them.

It was two steps. And Brandi was both retreating and had explicitly told Kyle not to grab her.

Kyle did not fall down the steps and crack her skull open, the chances of that happening were very low. I don't see the relevance in judging Brandi for something that didn't happen, and wasn't remotely likely to happen. Kyle started a scuffle, while she was wearing platform heels, with a much taller woman near some steps. Kyle chose to do that.

[kokapetl]

So Kyle is not absolved I am not getting what that means in the bigger picture? It was only Kim and Brandi that misbehaved and were rude and insulting throughout the evening. Kyle excused herself and Kim followed. Perhaps Kyle thought she had the same right to pursue Kim as Kim had to pursue her to the bathroom.

I am not getting how Brandi and Kim's inebriated behavior is all of a sudden absolved because Kyle touched Brandi. She didn't manhandle her she grabbed her arm-at the most. The insults to Kyle, Vince, Eileen and Lisar had already been dished out by Kim and Brandi. In spite of their insults they were trying to be polite in offering some food to the two drunkards to help sober them up. Did we ever see Brandi go back and clean up her mess on the Van Patten's floor? Boorish behavior is boorish behavior.

Who initiated the aggressive physical contact? Who crossed that legal line? Kyle. I'm not saying Kim and Brandi weren't rude. They were, but this is a Real Housewives show.

[Sincerely Yours]

So Kyle is not absolved I am not getting what that means in the bigger picture?  It was only Kim and Brandi that misbehaved and were rude and insulting throughout the evening. Kyle excused herself and Kim followed.  Perhaps Kyle thought she had the same right to pursue Kim as Kim had to pursue her to the bathroom. 

 

I am not getting how Brandi and Kim's inebriated behavior is all of a sudden absolved because Kyle touched Brandi.  She didn't manhandle her she grabbed her arm-at the most.   The insults to Kyle, Vince, Eileen and Lisar had already been dished out by Kim and Brandi.   In spite of their insults they were trying to be polite in offering some food to the two drunkards to help sober them up.  Did we ever see Brandi go back and clean up her mess on the Van Patten's floor?  Boorish behavior is boorish behavior. 

 

I don't see anyone absolving their inebriated behavior? Things seems to be getting unrecognizable and jumbled.

Seems to me that Brandi and Kim's bad behavior throughout the evening is disjointed with regards to what is actually being debated. The physicality of Kyle towards Brandi. That's it.

 

Kim being high, Brandi being drunk and obnoxious, the awkwardness of the evening does nothing to change that things becoming physical was just plain wrong. Nothing leading up to that moment justifies Kyle putting her hands on Brandi and she did so very aggressively. There's no getting around that. Be happy she did it, root her on for getting up all in Brandi's grill. Hey, Whatever, but there's no way to spin it that turns it into something other than what it was. Not to mention that for the most part Kyle pretty much got away with it and add insult to injury Brandi was the one to take the blame for it cause ya know tampon string (thanks jinjer) LOL.

 

At this point things are just spinning all over the place from going back to when they were at the table playing cards, to when Kyle was in the bathroom with Kim, when Kim had those parting words with Kyle. All these details that, yes contributed to the tone and the vibe of the evening, but to me were still behaviors that didn't warrant such a catalyctic outcome. So referring to their obnoxious behavior throughout the night seems very disproportionate to Kyle's very volatile reaction that in and of itself isn't very defendable if you ask me.

 

When it comes to the moment where Kyle put her hands on Brandi, for me all of that other stuff doesn't really factor in. Sure the night was rocky, things were happening, emotions were tricky but nah, come on, those few seconds between Brandi and Kyle. Different level, ridiculous leap from aggravating and annoying to physical and unjustifiable in my book. Hey it happened, okay, I can roll with that too but Brandi and Kim being obnoxious in no way excuses Kyle's bad judgment in that moment. Nothing wrong with admitting that Kyle did something bad that night. It happens. Acknowledging it doesn't negate the years of heartache and pain Kyle's endured over the years due to Kim's addictions. That's my take on it anyway.

 

Cleaning up her mess on the Van Pattons floor? Are we talking about the pizza that flew out of her hand because KYLE yanked her back?

First off it's funny how that's put on Brandi and proves my previous point about Brandi taking the blame for things. Second, is that really being added to the long list of Brandi offenses? That she didn't go back and pick it up?  Considering what was going on at the time is that oversight really that surprising?

Edited March 14, 2016 by Sincerely Yours

[WireWrap]

I went and watched the pizza scene on Hulu. Kim had told Kyle to stay away from her. As Kim walks to the car, Kyle is pestering Kim to stay, Kim is saying nothing, and Brandi is in between, telling Kyle to "stop it", and has her arms extended, she has pizza in one hand, and a slider in the other. Kyle grabs Brandi's upper arm and pulls it back, Brandi tells her to not fucking touch her. Kyle does it again, the pizza goes flying, and Brandi grabs Kyle's hand with her pizza free hand and pushes it back towards Kyle's upper body, Kyle is pushed back. Kyle made it physical.

Brandi both body blocked Kyle and at the same time she would extend her arm against Kyle to stop Kyle from going around her. Yes, Kyle would grab that arm and she told Brandi to stop it and Brandi would then say to Kyle, "don't touch me". Both were all kinds of wrong but Brandi was the first to physically touch Kyle. Then the grab to pass occurred, followed by the pull/shove backwards on steps and finally, the double wrist grab, yanking Kyles arms above her head at the garage doors with Vince getting a front row view of the final physical altercation.

[Vicky8675309]

Brandi unnecessarily involved herself in a situation where she wasn't needed. Kim acted as ass then followed Kyle to the bathroom where Kyle tried to help her out by saying cover the mic. Did Kim ever apologize for acting an ass?

Brandi blocks Kyle from her sister and there was no need for that---bg shouldn't have blocked Kyle from Kim like she is playing "keep away". Kyle moves bg's arm since she is restricting Kyle's access to Kim (Kyle is obviously concerned about Kim). Bg gets inappropriately aggressive to her arm being moved (she wouldn't move to get out of the way) and the most striking imagine I have is over bg looming over Kyle outside while physically restraining her with both her hands. 

Everyone could have behaved better but I really don't see what Kyle could have done different in the heat of the moment to check on her sister (who had been coming to her in the first place by following her to the bathroom).

 

Has Kim ever apologized for anything on this show? Or has she done nothing for which she should apologize?

[Avaleigh]

I imagine that's because Tamballs flinging her cyst-and-decease paperwork, Ramona's oar toss and Aviva's prosthetic-as-projectile missile pales in comparison to table flips, christening knock-down-drag-em-outs, wig snatching, bus lunges and comments like, "I will throw you over this sofa."

Or perhaps not.

These were exactly the sorts of incidents I was thinking of. That's why I don't get people singling out the women from ATL or NJ when we can point to inappropriate behavior from every franchise.

[Vicky8675309]

Brandi both body blocked Kyle and at the same time she would extend her arm against Kyle to stop Kyle from going around her. Yes, Kyle would grab that arm and she told Brandi to stop it and Brandi would then say to Kyle, "don't touch me". Both were all kinds of wrong but Brandi was the first to physically touch Kyle. Then the grab to pass occurred, followed by the pull/shove backwards on steps and finally, the double wrist grab, yanking Kyles arms above her head at the garage doors with Vince getting a front row view of the final physical altercation.

 

agree 100% and that is how I saw it.

Be careful~your "body blocked" will turn into full body slam to the ground and your "pull/shove backwards" will turn into pushed down the stairs with a cracked head and blood everywhere. The anti-Kyle bias is strong here as is all the projection onto poor little Kim

Edited March 14, 2016 by Vicky8675309

[kokapetl]

Brandi was partly blocking Kyle, but she also had food in both her hands. At that point, when the three of them were making their way out, it was silent Kim walking to her car to be driven home, Brandi was calmly trying to get that accomplished, and Kyle was frantically trying to reach Kim to have a discussion that at best would've resulted in acrimony and Richards sisters finger pointing. Brandi obstructing Kyle from pestering Kim, by maintaining two feet of separation, after Kim had told Kyle to leave her alone, wasn't a bad thing.

Edited March 14, 2016 by Kokapetl

[Yours Truly]

So Kyle is not absolved I am not getting what that means in the bigger picture?  It was only Kim and Brandi that misbehaved and were rude and insulting throughout the evening. Kyle excused herself and Kim followed.  Perhaps Kyle thought she had the same right to pursue Kim as Kim had to pursue her to the bathroom. 

 

I am not getting how Brandi and Kim's inebriated behavior is all of a sudden absolved because Kyle touched Brandi.  She didn't manhandle her she grabbed her arm-at the most.   The insults to Kyle, Vince, Eileen and Lisar had already been dished out by Kim and Brandi.   In spite of their insults they were trying to be polite in offering some food to the two drunkards to help sober them up.  Did we ever see Brandi go back and clean up her mess on the Van Patten's floor?  Boorish behavior is boorish behavior. 

What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

 

Kyle chases down Kim, Brandi blocks her path to Kim without touching Kyle, Kyle initiates the physical altercation rather abruptly, Brandi reacts and defends herself. Kyle finds her dumb ass tripping down some stairs cause the person she's grabbing at and getting physical with isn't liking that this bitch is putting her hands on them. 

 

That moment, those few seconds.. Pretty cut and dry to me. All that other stuff is neither here nor there when it comes down to that one particular detail. IMO.

Edited March 14, 2016 by Yours Truly

[Sincerely Yours]

Brandi was partly blocking Kyle, but she also had food in both her hands. At that point, when the three of them were making their way out, it was silent Kim walking to her car to be driven home, Brandi was calmly trying to get that accomplished, and Kyle was frantically trying to reach Kim to have a discussion that at best would've resulted in acrimony and Richards sisters finger pointing. Brandi obstructing Kyle from pestering Kim, after Kim had told Kyle to leave her alone, wasn't a bad thing.

Of course it was. Kyle's default position as Kim's long suffering sister dictates that she can prolong uncomfortable situations, demand to have talks at the worst possible moments and put even more of a spotlight on her sisters "odd" behavior in front of an audience. Kyle distress usually HAS to be humored no matter how ill timed it is. Ever notice that? At a table full of guests? At a party? In a limo? At poker night? How many times has Kyle found it necessary to call Kim out on something in some of the most public of situations? I mean sure Kim's a mess but hells bells does Kyle never let an opportunity to shine that light on her slip away.

 

During the last season Kim was on Kyle passed the torch and towards the second half of the season the newbies took over the task of bringing shit up over and over and over again in pretty public settings. Uggghhh. It's so contrived. Maybe the incidences aren't contrived but what is contrived is the part when they ignore the natural instinct to either deescalate or be discreet in favor of giving the cameras something good to film. I do believe a lot of stuff happens naturally its just when it gets to the place where you can see where the decision is made to NOT put a pin in something and to prolong a situation. That's what I call bullshit on.

Edited March 14, 2016 by Sincerely Yours

[Avaleigh]

Who initiated the aggressive physical contact? Who crossed that legal line? Kyle. I'm not saying Kim and Brandi weren't rude. They were, but this is a Real Housewives show.

Brandi initiated physical contact. Kyle asked her not to and Brandi repeatedly ignored her. Just because Brandi didn't use her hands when she initiated contact doesn't mean that she wasn't touching Kyle. The cameras aren't lying. Brandi touched Kyle first with her body repeatedly. She also used her arm. Brandi is also the reason the pizza went flying in my opinion because she was trying to make the moment as dramatic as possible. 

 

Brandi continued to engage in physical contact with Kyle when Kyle repeatedly told her to get away from her. This all continues to be overlooked in defense of Brandi and Kim. 

 

The whole point of this being brought up anyway was to demonstrate that Kim doesn't give a shit when she sees someone treating her sister like shit. 

Edited March 14, 2016 by Avaleigh

[sistermagpie]

Of course it was. Kyle's default position as Kim's long suffering sister dictates that she can prolong uncomfortable situations, demand to have talks at the worst possible moments and put even more of a spotlight on her sisters "odd" behavior in front of an audience.

 

 

This is what seems so odd to me, though. That Kim randomly, after a night of provoking everyone and then having what seems to be a good conversation with Kyle (following Kyle to ask for some help, admitting about the pill), can walk into the kitchen obviously accusing her of something ("THANKS A LOT!") like she's now suddenly so angry at Kyle for something Kyle did, and Kyle going after her and demanding to know what's up with her is now Kyle just "prolonging an uncomfortable situations" and putting a spotlight on Kim's behavior. Yes, Kyle totally should have just ignored Kim. Likewise if Kim really wanted to leave she could have simply left rather than marching in to dramatically let Kyle know she was not just leaving, she was storming off angry at her. Kim didn't want to leave, she wanted to exit dramatically, stage left, either pursued by Kyle or with Kyle left tearfully wondering what she had done to hurt Kim.

 

And it's not just that Kyle's wasting her time trying to talk to her in that state, or indulging in her own need to get abused by Kim so she can feel and look like a martyr, but obviously she should also be helping Kim out here by trying to limit her asshole exposure. She should totally care that when Kim's insulting her and picking fights and creating a drama where Kyle's a villain, she's making herself look bad. Or making herself look high. As the sober one she's supposed to do that--which is, ironically, exactly the thing that makes her "the martyr."

Edited March 14, 2016 by sistermagpie

[Avaleigh]

Of course it was. Kyle's default position as Kim's long suffering sister dictates that she can prolong uncomfortable situations, demand to have talks at the worst possible moments and put even more of a spotlight on her sisters "odd" behavior in front of an audience. Kyle distress usually HAS to be humored no matter how ill timed it is. Ever notice that? At a table full of guests? At a party? In a limo? At poker night? How many times has Kyle found it necessary to call Kim out on something in some of the most public of situations? I mean sure Kim's a mess but hells bells does Kyle never let an opportunity to shine that light on her slip away.

 

During the last season Kim was on Kyle passed the torch and towards the second half of the season the newbies took over the task of bringing shit up over and over and over again in pretty public settings. Uggghhh. It's so contrived. Maybe the incidences aren't contrived but what is contrived is the part when they ignore the natural instinct to either deescalate or be discreet in favor of giving the cameras something good to film. I do believe a lot of stuff happens naturally its just when it gets to the place where you can see where the decision is made to NOT put a pin in something and to prolong a situation. That's what I call bullshit on.

This is absolving Kim of responsibility as usual. Kim is the reason that people know that she was high on Poker Night. 

 

The idea that anything good would come out of drunk!Brandi being in a car with cameras with high!Kim is so completely absurd I don't know why Kyle was supposed to pretend like she thought it was a good idea in that moment. She thought Kim might not be as obnoxious if she stayed to eat and she could maybe get them to make up before leaving instead of Kim being in a position where Brandi is likely going to pour more poison in her ear about Kyle. Seeing that Kim was going off angry (and high) seemed like the opposite of a good idea so Kyle did what she could to try to make the situation better.

 

Kim actually felt bad for a split second over the way Kyle was being treated but Brandi got pissed the moment Kim indicated that she was feeling a touch of loyalty to Kyle. 

 

It was crystal clear in that moment that Brandi was doing everything she could to come between the sisters. She guilt tripped Kim and tried to make Kim feel bad about wanting to make it right with Kyle. She tried to force Kim to choose between the two of them when it should never have come to that point. I don't see how Brandi's behavior is at all defensible here. 

 

ETA:

 

Kyle has covered for Kim countless times on this show but it's never enough for some people. She literally can't win. 

Edited March 14, 2016 by Avaleigh

[WireWrap]

This is what seems so odd to me, though. That Kim randomly, after a night of provoking everyone and then having what seems to be a good conversation with Kyle (following Kyle to ask for some help, admitting about the pill), can walk into the kitchen obviously accusing her of something ("THANKS A LOT!") like she's now suddenly so angry at Kyle for something Kyle did, and Kyle going after her and demanding to know what's up with her is now Kyle just "prolonging an uncomfortable situations" and putting a spotlight on Kim's behavior. Yes, Kyle totally should have just ignored Kim. Likewise if Kim really wanted to leave she could have simply left rather than marching in to dramatically let Kyle know she was not just leaving, she was storming off angry at her. Kim didn't want to leave, she wanted to exit dramatically, stage left, either pursued by Kyle or with Kyle left tearfully wondering what she had done to hurt Kim.

 

And it's not just that Kyle's wasting her time trying to talk to her in that state, or indulging in her own need to get abused by Kim so she can feel and look like a martyr, but obviously she should also be helping Kim out here by trying to limit her asshole exposure. She should totally care that when Kim's insulting her and picking fights and creating a drama where Kyle's a villain, she's making herself look bad. Or making herself look high. As the sober one she's supposed to do that--which is, ironically, exactly the thing that makes her "the martyr."

Most of the time, Kyle really is in a "dammed if she does, dammed if she doesn't"  situation with Kim. Blow Kim off or ignore her, Kyle is an uncaring asshole, show concern, anger or fear at something Kim has said/done and she is "using Kim". I really don't know what some want Kyle to do when Kim gets out of control, high, drunk or acts like her normal nasty self towards everyone around her but most of all, towards Kyle, I really don't understand it at all.

[kokapetl]

Brandi initiated physical contact. Kyle asked her not to and Brandi repeatedly ignored her. Just because Brandi didn't use her hands when she initiated contact doesn't mean that she wasn't touching Kyle. The cameras aren't lying. Brandi touched Kyle first with her body repeatedly. She also used her arm. Brandi is also the reason the pizza went flying in my opinion because she was trying to make the moment as dramatic as possible.

Brandi continued to engage in physical contact with Kyle when Kyle repeatedly told her to get away from her. This all continues to be overlooked in defense of Brandi and Kim.

The whole point of this being brought up anyway was to demonstrate that Kim doesn't give a shit when she sees someone treating her sister like shit.

Kyle was trying to prevent Kim from exercising her right to leave the premises, that's why she was trying to get in front of Kim, to literally stand in her way. Brandi acted defensively to prevent Kyle from blocking herself and Kim from lawfully exiting. The aggressive physical contact was initiated by Kyle. Kim had the right to leave, she wanted to leave and she told Kyle to leave her alone. Kyle ignored that and in trying to detain Kim she got in a scuffle with a 6 foot tall woman. Tough shit for Kyle.

[Avaleigh]

The sympathy card for Kim when it comes to factoring in things like her child star status, the possibility of abuse, the supposed lack of education, her diseases and addictions--I disagree that she should be absolved of her behavior because she's supposedly had a bunch of hard knocks that were out of her control. ETA: The drugs and alcohol aren't an excuse for the meanness or the overall lack of consideration she has for people.

 

Most of the time, Kyle really is in a "dammed if she does, dammed if she doesn't"  situation with Kim. Blow Kim off or ignore her, Kyle is an uncaring asshole, show concern, anger or fear at something Kim has said/done and she is "using Kim". I really don't know what some want Kyle to do when Kim gets out of control, high, drunk or acts like her normal nasty self towards everyone around her but most of all, towards Kyle, I really don't understand it at all.

Absolutely. I just said something similar. When Kyle defends Kim like a tiger, she's criticized. When Kyle defends Kim in a more neutral way, she's criticized. When Kyle straight up tells Kim that her behavior is indefensible, she's harshly criticized. 

 

Kyle was hugely criticized for not having a stronger reaction to Lisa Rinna breaking the glass even though the person who was closest to the glass shattering (Eileen) didn't move or complain about having glass all over her or anything unlike Brandi who claimed that the glass put her kids' health at risk. Kyle supposedly should have acted like more of a sister in terms of protecting Kim. Yet when it's brought up that Kim watched Brandi repeatedly put her hands on Kyle, there are no claims of Kim being a disloyal sister to Kyle. Kim gets a pass because she's under the influence. I can see why Kyle is hugely frustrated by the public perception of her relationship with her sister because she's so often held to a different standard than her sister. 

 

Kyle was trying to prevent Kim from exercising her right to leave the premises, that's why she was trying to get in front of Kim, to literally stand in her way. Brandi acted defensively to prevent Kyle from blocking herself and Kim from lawfully exiting. The aggressive physical contact was initiated by Kyle. Kim had the right to leave, she wanted to leave and she told Kyle to leave her alone. Kyle ignored that and in trying to detain Kim she got in a scuffle with a 6 foot tall woman. Tough shit for Kyle.

Kyle was not preventing Kim from exercising her right to leave. If Brandi hadn't interfered, the conversation could have continued without any sort of physical altercation. Brandi choice to use her body to force Kyle to do what she wanted her to do. Brandi does not have the right to choose or control where people go or who they talk to. Brandi is the one who brought the conflict into physical territory. She should never have used her arm and body to keep Kyle from walking forward. 

 

Kim could have continued to leave and Kyle could still keep talking to her. Kyle attempting to talk to Kim doesn't mean that Brandi has the right to physically keep Kyle from going wherever it is that she wants to go. 

 

Tough shit for Brandi that her aggressive behavior with the other women is what led to her getting her ass kicked off of the show. Brandi got physically aggressive with three of the women last season. She was in the wrong in this situation just as she was in the wrong in the others. Brandi is an instigator and has shown herself to be one repeatedly. 

Edited March 14, 2016 by Avaleigh

[Sincerely Yours]

This is what seems so odd to me, though. That Kim randomly, after a night of provoking everyone and then having what seems to be a good conversation with Kyle (following Kyle to ask for some help, admitting about the pill), can walk into the kitchen obviously accusing her of something ("THANKS A LOT!") like she's now suddenly so angry at Kyle for something Kyle did, and Kyle going after her and demanding to know what's up with her is now Kyle just "prolonging an uncomfortable situations" and putting a spotlight on Kim's behavior. Yes, Kyle totally should have just ignored Kim. Likewise if Kim really wanted to leave she could have simply left rather than marching in to dramatically let Kyle know she was not just leaving, she was storming off angry at her. Kim didn't want to leave, she wanted to exit dramatically, stage left, either pursued by Kyle or with Kyle left tearfully wondering what she had done to hurt Kim.

 

And it's not just that Kyle's wasting her time trying to talk to her in that state, or indulging in her own need to get abused by Kim so she can feel and look like a martyr, but obviously she should also be helping Kim out here by trying to limit her asshole exposure. She should totally care that when Kim's insulting her and picking fights and creating a drama where Kyle's a villain, she's making herself look bad. Or making herself look high. As the sober one she's supposed to do that--which is, ironically, exactly the thing that makes her "the martyr."

The initial debate was actually about Kyle being wrong to put her hands on Brandi. All the rest of this comes out because in order to defend Kyle in that one moment there's this disjointed connection being made with the hijinx throughout the night by Kim and Brandi and Kyle being justified in putting her hands on Brandi. For me, I challenge that thought process. The one where because Kim's an addict and Brandi's "trash" that this automatically makes what Kyle did okay or at the very least justified. I can agree with it being understandable but justified or even provoked? That's a stretch that my integrity won't let me get on board with even though I can see where it would be easy to do so.

 

It's shifting into so many different directions that we are back to who's bad, who's good, who's more this that and the other. 

 

Alls I know is, that little moment between Kim's parting words and Kyle flopping down those stairs was a complete fail on Kyle's part and maybe one minute before Kim was at fault and 2 minutes after Brandi was deplorable but in the moments in the hall it was Kyle that was exhibiting completely heinous behavior. They all acted out at different moments and it all extracted not so nice reactions. 

[zoeysmom]

What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

 

Kyle chases down Kim, Brandi blocks her path to Kim without touching Kyle, Kyle initiates the physical altercation rather abruptly, Brandi reacts and defends herself. Kyle finds her dumb ass tripping down some stairs cause the person she's grabbing at and getting physical with isn't liking that this bitch is putting her hands on them. 

 

That moment, those few seconds.. Pretty cut and dry to me. All that other stuff is neither here nor there when it comes down to that one particular detail. IMO.

There was never a physical altercation.  In California for there to be an assault/battery there must be an intentional attempt to physically injure another or a menacing or threatening act or statement that cause the other person to believe they are about to be attacked.  Intentional conduct required.  Grabbing someone's arm in an effort to a family member that is mentally incapacitated isn't really an act to physically injure or threaten another.

 

I don't recall Kyle threatening Brandi with physical violence.  Brandi usually makes stupid statements about injuring someone so I imagine she did in this situation as well. 

 

 

 

Kyle was trying to prevent Kim from exercising her right to leave the premises, that's why she was trying to get in front of Kim, to literally stand in her way. Brandi acted defensively to prevent Kyle from blocking herself and Kim from lawfully exiting. The aggressive physical contact was initiated by Kyle. Kim had the right to leave, she wanted to leave and she told Kyle to leave her alone. Kyle ignored that and in trying to detain Kim she got in a scuffle with a 6 foot tall woman. Tough shit for Kyle.

Kim and Brandi are also under contract so they really don't get to dictate their comings and goings and in fact stayed long after Rinna and Kyle left.  Last I checked Brandi wasn't a producer who could decide who could and who could not talk to another cast member. Kim was inebriated and I think her sister was concerned, I know I would be concerned if my inebriated sister was leaving with a drunken Brandi. 

 

I think the burning question that has never been answered is why was Kim all of a sudden so afraid to talk to Kyle?  I believe it was because Brandi worked her up.