Bethenny & Jason: The Divorce Showdown

[motorcitymom65]

8 hours ago, breezy424 said:

Beth is the one who went to the police station along with her lawyers and apparently some friends.  She's now dealing with 'her' decisions.  Is any of this in the best interest of her daughter?  No, IMO.  She went down this road and I do think she will come to regret it.

 

I am curious. What do you think Bethenny should have done? Pretend it is not Bethenny. What should any woman in this situation have done? She ignored him at first, then sent him a C&D letter. But it escalated. Should she just sit there and take it? Is that the message she should send to her daughter? At what point does it become Jason's responsibility to not engage in this type of behavior? Wouldn't him not doing the things that got him arrested have been in the best interest of his daughter? I am just incredulous at the notion that the fact that charges were filed is Bethenny's fault because she dared to tell someone what was happening to her. I know there are countries where women are just supposed to accept being treated like this, but luckily we don't live in one. 

[zoeysmom]

5 hours ago, BBHN said:

Besides the arrest?

 

There was no restraining order in effect prior to the arrest.  The arrest is what prompted the restraining order.

[zoeysmom]

1 hour ago, motorcitymom65 said:

I am curious. What do you think Bethenny should have done? Pretend it is not Bethenny. What should any woman in this situation have done? She ignored him at first, then sent him a C&D letter. But it escalated. Should she just sit there and take it? Is that the message she should send to her daughter? At what point does it become Jason's responsibility to not engage in this type of behavior? Wouldn't him not doing the things that got him arrested have been in the best interest of his daughter? I am just incredulous at the notion that the fact that charges were filed is Bethenny's fault because she dared to tell someone what was happening to her. I know there are countries where women are just supposed to accept being treated like this, but luckily we don't live in one. 

Bethenny could have pursued a civil remedy.  http://legalbeagle.com/5279655-new-state-restraining-order-rules.html  Going to the police was not her only option.  One theory might be that Bethenny through her counsel and she was represented by counsel when she made the complaint to the police, did not have substantial evidence to secure a restraining order in Family Law court.  Not a fact just a theory.

Jason behavior is now subject to the criminal justice system.  Bethenny was well within her rights to go the police and demand a complaint be issued and Jason arrested-it was just not the only avenue available to her.  For example after the C&D letter the first, second or twentieth email, text message would have been a reason to seek an injunction or restraining order in the Family Law court.  I can't imagine why that would be any less effective than going to the police department. 

[BBHN]

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There was no restraining order in effect prior to the arrest.  The arrest is what prompted the restraining order.

Given his behavior, maybe there should have been one...

[Lemons]

20 hours ago, zoeysmom said:

 

All I may saying is if a witness says-he called me by mother's name.  Most people would want to know why that would cause her material emotional or mental harm.   This is a criminal case as you said intent matters, justification matters, prior history between the two matter.  So being offended is an element in essence it is all about why the statement or the e-mail would rise to the level of harassment.  

Being offended is not an "element". It just isn't. 

Two things I don't understand, why some think Bethany should have,thought of the child first and why some think,that emotional abuse is not as bad as physical abuse.  

The courts are full of women and children who are being harassed. Unwanted communications by technology or showing up at work places, social events, etc.

Women shouldn't be expected to endure emotional abuse because the man happens to be their child's father. 

No one would question a woman going to the police with a black eye and claiming physical abuse. Why question a woman who claims emotional abuse?  Emotional abuse can be just as bad as physical abuse. Emotional abuse can escalate into physical abuse or murder. Why question a woman's judgement?  Luckily the courts are taking these claims more seriously than previously. Nip it in the bud before it gets worse.  

[QuinnM]

5 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

Jason behavior is now subject to the criminal justice system.  Bethenny was well within her rights to go the police and demand a complaint be issued and Jason arrested-it was just not the only avenue available to her.  For example after the C&D letter the first, second or twentieth email, text message would have been a reason to seek an injunction or restraining order in the Family Law court.  I can't imagine why that would be any less effective than going to the police department. 

Family Law?  I'm not sure how it works in NY but in my area any judgement in Family Court would impact current custody arrangements.  So she might have been doing him a favor but keeping it criminal.  But that's hard to say.  I say anything to keep him from continuing the illegal behavior.  

[Celia Rubenstein]

I think if Bethenny had taken the matter to the Family Court she would have been torn apart for trying to interfere with Jason's custody/visitation with Bryn, and the response would be along the lines of "if it was so bad, why didn't she go to the police and take him to criminal court?"

[bagger]

7 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

I think if Bethenny had taken the matter to the Family Court she would have been torn apart for trying to interfere with Jason's custody/visitation with Bryn, and the response would be along the lines of "if it was so bad, why didn't she go to the police and take him to criminal court?"

Thank you and not only that but with each civil remedy i.e. Ceases and desist letter his behavior escalated. How many escalations are necessary before one goes to the police? Was B supposed to wait till the screaming turned into a push, then a slap, then...

She pays a lot of people a lot of money to help make these decisions. If her lawyer advised going to the police then that was a valid choice for her to make. Just because we, the general public haven't seen an escalation in bad behavior by Jason doesn't mean she didn't feel the threat. 

Now whether he's convicted is up to the justice system but even if he isn't convicted maybe just the experience will cause him to think twice next time he wants to harass her. Maybe next time he will seek a civil remedy to what he perceives is a slight or an injustIce on B's behalf.

[ZoloftBlob]

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Jason behavior is now subject to the criminal justice system.  Bethenny was well within her rights to go the police and demand a complaint be issued and Jason arrested-it was just not the only avenue available to her.  For example after the C&D letter the first, second or twentieth email, text message would have been a reason to seek an injunction or restraining order in the Family Law court.  I can't imagine why that would be any less effective than going to the police department. 

Technically, Bethenny was well within her rights to go to the police as soon as she felt stalked. People aren't actually required to fire a few warning shots over criminal behavior.

She *did* give him a chance to alter his behavior by issuing the cease and desist letter. She wasn't *required* to do that at all - but its an example of how she did pursue a civil remedy before going to the police.

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I think if Bethenny had taken the matter to the Family Court she would have been torn apart for trying to interfere with Jason's custody/visitation with Bryn, and the response would be along the lines of "if it was so bad, why didn't she go to the police and take him to criminal court?"

Exactly.

[breezy424]

Interesting take on the allegations in the court documents:

http://tamaratattles.com/2017/06/27/jason-hoppy-back-in-court-today-as-bethenny-frankel-films-shark-tank/

[QuinnM]

4 minutes ago, breezy424 said:

 

Interesting take on the allegations in the court documents:

http://tamaratattles.com/2017/06/27/jason-hoppy-back-in-court-today-as-bethenny-frankel-films-shark-tank/

 

Well the entire article is a POS example of journalism.  And I'm being generous.  The repeated reference to Bethenny's legal team illustrates how clueless the author is about what is happening.  Bethenny's legal team is not prosecuting the case. The district attorney for the state of New York is prosecuting the case.  So Tamara is off base from the start and only circles the drain as her point by point narrative continues.

[zoeysmom]

8 minutes ago, breezy424 said:

Interesting take on the allegations in the court documents:

http://tamaratattles.com/2017/06/27/jason-hoppy-back-in-court-today-as-bethenny-frankel-films-shark-tank/

Thanks Tamara did a pretty good job of setting forth what has been reported to be the subject of the criminal charges.  All too often there is a lot of past history that gets wrapped into statements of opinion that are not necessarily reflective of the behavior during the period charged in the complaint. 

2 minutes ago, QuinnM said:

Well the entire article is a POS example of journalism.  And I'm being generous.  The repeated reference to Bethenny's legal team illustrates how clueless the author is about what is happening.  Bethenny's legal team is not prosecuting the case. The district attorney for the state of New York is prosecuting the case.  So Tamara is off base from the start and only circles the drain as her point by point narrative continues.

I felt the same way when different reporters would say Bethenny's attorneys.  Then I realized her attorney(s) are attending the proceedings.  So it is a little bit right and a little bit wrong.  Her attorneys are present but they are not the ones prosecuting the case. 

I do think she did a good job of succinctly putting together was has been presented publicly in the way of the contents of the emails, texts and encounter at the school.

[thebestcasey]

13 minutes ago, breezy424 said:

Interesting take on the allegations in the court documents:

http://tamaratattles.com/2017/06/27/jason-hoppy-back-in-court-today-as-bethenny-frankel-films-shark-tank/

Seriously--wtf did I just read?  BETHENNY'S legal team added charges?  So she is the state of New York now?  That is just so ridiculous. 

[BBHN]

Quote

The repeated reference to Bethenny's legal team illustrates how clueless the author is about what is happening.  Bethenny's legal team is not prosecuting the case. The district attorney for the state of New York is prosecuting the case.  So Tamara is off base from the start and only circles the drain as her point by point narrative continues.

Yeah, I noticed that too. Makes the rest of the "opinions" in that article a bit suspect as well.

[Lemons]

1 minute ago, thebestcasey said:

Seriously--wtf did I just read?  BETHENNY'S legal team added charges?  So she is the state of New York now?  That is just so ridiculous. 

You just read a layperson's opinion on Bethenny and Jason.  It's usually in the best interest of the defendant to delay the case and to keep asking for continuances.  The closer the case is to it actually happening, the worse it would be for Jason.  

1 minute ago, BBHN said:

Yeah, I noticed that too. Makes the rest of the "opinions" in that article a bit suspect as well.

I don't think you have to put "opinions" in parenthesis.  There is no doubt that it is the blog writer's opinion.  

[BBHN]

Quote

I don't think you have to put "opinions" in parenthesis.  There is no doubt that it is the blog writer's opinion.  

I was being snarky...or, trying to lol

[Jel]

15 hours ago, zoeysmom said:

Jason reference to Bernadette was about Bethenny trying to do to him what her mother did to her father.  Hardly noteworthy.  It is on these threads because of Carole's reference that people have made a huge deal over delicate snowflake Bethenny being called Bernadette.  No evidence to support the claim just Carole's musings.

I see it like this: imagine you you grew up with a mother (Gloria) who was in the late stages of alcoholism -- completely out of control, causing all sorts of humiliation, pain and damage in your childhood. As a kid, you suffered from it and really know what kind of hurt that brought you. And then one night, when you have had a couple of glasses of wine, your soon to be ex calls you "Gloria". Wouldn't you perceive that as a shot? Knowing all you know about what being a "Gloria" entails? 

I don't know the context of how Jason said it, so I am just speculating, but if he did say it like that, that's technically emotional abuse.

Edited July 9, 2017 by Jel

[WireWrap]

5 minutes ago, Jel said:

I see it like this: imagine you you grew up with a mother (Gloria) who was in the late stages of alcoholism -- completely out of control, causing all sorts of humiliation, pain and damage in your childhood. As a kid, you suffered from it and really know what kind of hurt that brought you. And then one night, when you have had a couple of glasses of wine, your soon to be ex calls you "Gloria". Wouldn't you perceive that as a shot? Knowing all you know about what being a "Gloria" entails? 

I don't know the context of how Jason said it, so I am just speculating, but if he did say it like that, that's technically emotional abuse.

Yes, it would be horrid if Jason just said that out of the blue but if he said it because Bethenny was trying to cut him out of Bryn's life then it is justified IMO. At this point, we just don't have enough info to make a clear determination of which way this falls, his guilt in being heartless or her guilt in being heartless. 

Edited July 9, 2017 by WireWrap

[Jel]

2 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

Yes, it would be horrid if Jason just said that out of the blue but if he said it because Bethenny was trying to cut him out of Bryn's life then it is justified IMO. At this point, we just don't have enough info to make a clear determination of which way this falls, his guilt in being heartless or her guilt in being heartless. 

Then we are in agreement, WireWrap. :)

Ultimately, I think Bethenny loves her daughter and knows it would cause her great sadness to have her father cut out of her life, and as much as she might like that personally (hence the lash out), I really don't think that is her goal.  (Her willingness to see Bernadette because Bryn wanted to meet her also says a lot I think.)

[QuinnM]

7 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

Yes, it would be horrid if Jason just said that out of the blue but if he said it because Bethenny was trying to cut him out of Bryn's life then it is justified IMO. At this point, we just don't have enough info to make a clear determination of which way this falls, his guilt in being heartless or her guilt in being heartless. 

At this point we only have just one of Jason's obsessive emails that alludes to that.  There is nothing to indicate that she is doing that.  If she has Bryn on her days and he has Bryn on his days - how does one cut Bryn out of his life?  So maybe that's what we hear in court but for now it's just Jason yelling it at Brhynn's school.

[breezy424]

Beth has admitted saying that she told Jason he would never see his child again at the custody hearing. 

 

The original People article about the emails.  No, we haven't seen them all but I would think People would publish the 'worst' ones:

http://people.com/crime/bethenny-frankel-jason-hoppy-stalking-allegations-as-he-files-dismissal/

[Jel]

Yes, that's true (and it's what I meant by the lash out).

[nexxie]

Bryn, like Kensie and Saint Ravenel, is a pawn in the game two creeps are playing with each other. Poor little girl.

[BBHN]

Quote

Yes, it would be horrid if Jason just said that out of the blue but if he said it because Bethenny was trying to cut him out of Bryn's life then it is justified IMO.

I don't feel it is justified.

[Celia Rubenstein]

I usually avoid Tamara like a gas station toilet seat covered in brown smears, but I am glad I read her little piece because while I knew Jason was facing two additional charges, I did NOT realize one of them is a 3rd degree stalking charge!  That means he may have said something to make Bethenny fear for her physical safety (as opposed to just emotional/business stuff in a 4th degree charge).  And he is facing A YEAR in jail now instead of just 90 days?

Dayum.  If he is convicted, he may well see the inside of a jail cell. 

Edited July 10, 2017 by Celia Rubenstein

[QuinnM]

31 minutes ago, breezy424 said:

The original People article about the emails.  No, we haven't seen them all but I would think People would publish the 'worst' ones:

http://people.com/crime/bethenny-frankel-jason-hoppy-stalking-allegations-as-he-files-dismissal/

These are the emails that were noted when charges were filed.  So we have no idea if they are the worst.  All we know is the these quotes from emails are noted in the charges.

[ZoloftBlob]

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Dayum.  If he is convicted, he may well see the inside of a jail cell. 

That's going to make custody awkward.

But I do kinda see him insisting she be brought to the jail for visits.

Edited July 9, 2017 by ZoloftBlob

[breezy424]

13 minutes ago, QuinnM said:

These are the emails that were noted when charges were filed.  So we have no idea if they are the worst.  All we know is the these quotes from emails are noted in the charges.

All I'm going by is what People said at the time:

In light of Tuesday’s additional charges, PEOPLE has obtained a copy of the court document, which list Frankel’s complaint in detail. Here are some of the reality star’s allegations:

http://people.com/crime/bethenny-frankel-jason-hoppy-stalking-allegations-as-he-files-dismissal/

[QuinnM]

Quote

 

All I'm going by is what People said at the time:

In light of Tuesday’s additional charges, PEOPLE has obtained a copy of the court document, which list Frankel’s complaint in detail. Here are some of the reality star’s allegations:

http://people.com/crime/bethenny-frankel-jason-hoppy-stalking-allegations-as-he-files-dismissal/

Exactly, People published all the quotes, not just the worst.  It is quite possible that there are emails that contain much worse language.  We have yet to see the what triggered the two additional charges.  It all depends on how the prosecution is building their case against him.  They may have some that are much worse but have set it up so that Hoppy gets blindsided by them.

[WireWrap]

1 hour ago, Jel said:

Then we are in agreement, WireWrap. :)

Ultimately, I think Bethenny loves her daughter and knows it would cause her great sadness to have her father cut out of her life, and as much as she might like that personally (hence the lash out), I really don't think that is her goal.  (Her willingness to see Bernadette because Bryn wanted to meet her also says a lot I think.)

I do think Bethenny loves Bryn but I think she hates Jason more. Bethenny never followed through on that promise, it was nothing more than a sympathy/support ploy for the reunion. She also never followed through with introducing her ex step father to Bryn either and she made that promise over 3 years ago now. 

1 hour ago, QuinnM said:

At this point we only have just one of Jason's obsessive emails that alludes to that.  There is nothing to indicate that she is doing that.  If she has Bryn on her days and he has Bryn on his days - how does one cut Bryn out of his life?  So maybe that's what we hear in court but for now it's just Jason yelling it at Brhynn's school.

We only have parts of emails he sent, they did not show the entire email. 

She could change up the exchange times/days (because she/Bryn travel a lot) which could/would effect his time with Bryn. 

Edited July 9, 2017 by WireWrap

[ZoloftBlob]

Quote

She could change up the exchange times/days (because she/Bryn travel a lot) which could/would effect his time with Bryn. 

I know from my sister's custody case (in NYS) that if he feels put out by her changing the schedule, he can take her to court to enforce his custody. She can't simply say "I need to travel so your custody time is null and void" - or anything along those lines. When this occurs with my sister, she and the ex have to agree to "make up" time and technically he doesn't have to agree to it, he could just go to court and complain my sister was keeping him from his kid.

Quote

We only have part of 1 email he sent, they did not show the entire email. 

And honestly? If that one email is why they charged him, then he'll be able to cry he was unlawfully arrested but I have to assume there's something other than "I'd like to take Bryn to the zoo." in the 160 emails. I mean, the police are accountable for their actions as well. Willy nilly prosecutions for spite can bite the police dept on the ass.

[WireWrap]

15 minutes ago, ZoloftBlob said:

I know from my sister's custody case (in NYS) that if he feels put out by her changing the schedule, he can take her to court to enforce his custody. She can't simply say "I need to travel so your custody time is null and void" - or anything along those lines. When this occurs with my sister, she and the ex have to agree to "make up" time and technically he doesn't have to agree to it, he could just go to court and complain my sister was keeping him from his kid.

And honestly? If that one email is why they charged him, then he'll be able to cry he was unlawfully arrested but I have to assume there's something other than "I'd like to take Bryn to the zoo." in the 160 emails. I mean, the police are accountable for their actions as well. Willy nilly prosecutions for spite can bite the police dept on the ass.

Yes, he could and should have taken her back to court but maybe he thought they could talk it out in emails but Bethenny refused and this is why he got so upset. Without a doubt, I believe that Bethenny feels her time with Bryn is more important than Jason's time with her and I can see her blowing him off because she knows he doesn't have deep enough pockets to keep taking her to court like he should have. Again, we haven't see all the evidence (emails) nor have we heard Jason's side, so we do not have the full/complete story.

I believe these statements People published were taken directly from the police report Bethenny filed against Jason. Which means that these are the statements Bethenny, herself, found "threatening".  The police wouldn't arrest Jason unless the DA office said for them to and, sorry, money and fame do up the ante for them to prosecute someone. 

Edited July 9, 2017 by WireWrap

[film noire]

2 hours ago, Jel said:

And then one night, when you have had a couple of glasses of wine, your soon to be ex calls you "Gloria". Wouldn't you perceive that as a shot? Knowing all you know about what being a "Gloria" entails? 

 

Sure.

But why does he call me "Gloria"?

Have I  said, "You're never going to see your child again"?

Have I screamed  "You are white trash" at him?

Have I  thrown water on him while he was sleeping?

Because all of that crazy shit sounds just like the crap Gloria used to pull.

So if he's abusing me for giving it a name, let's make sure we're honest about why the name is being used to begin with -- and whatever came after the divorce, during the meltdown of the marriage/custody fight, Frankel was behaving very much like her own description of her mother; physically impulsive & out of control, viciously abusive and trying to drive a wedge between her child and the father of her child. And if Jason were the female party in this case -- a woman who had lost a baby, been informed of the divorce in a letter seven months later, had been called white trash, had water thrown on her while sleeping,  and told she would never see her child again-- nobody would question why she called him "Bernie",  or told him he was just like his abusive father. 

eta p.s.  @Jel Gloria was a perfect subbed name for Bernadette - they sound like sisters (heard Glo & Bernadette double-dated Clooney and Richard Gere back in the day) 

Edited July 9, 2017 by film noire

[ZoloftBlob]

Quote

Yes, he could and should have taken her back to court but maybe he thought they could talk it out in emails but Bethenny refused and this is why he got so upset.

Maybe. But he could then go to the courts and point that out. He has civil options.  Being upset isn't an excuse to break the law. If it was, we'd have a LOT less murder trials. ;)

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I believe that Bethenny feels her time with Bryn is more important than Jason's time with her

I genuinely don't know any divorced parent who believes the other parent's time with the kid is more important than theirs.

Quote

I can see her blowing him off because she knows he doesn't have deep enough pockets to keep taking her to court like he should have. 

It sucks to be poor. My sister is constantly hauled into court by her ex who doesn't work and doesn't pay child support because he's unemployed, because his *parents* fund the lawyer. It's not fair.

Quote

I believe these statements People published were taken directly from the police report Bethenny filed against Jason. Which means that these are the statements Bethenny, herself, found "threatening". 

I'm not sure what your point is. My point - and perhaps I could have stated it better - is that there's 160 emails and we've seen part of one quoted in People. If that one is the only one that is out of line, the *police* will have some explaining to do about arresting Jason. Anyone can head down to the police and file a complaint. It's the police who make the judgement call to arrest and if they based a stalking arrest on one threatening email, then it's New York State that Jason will be suing, not Bethenny.

I personally think the various emails probably were threatening, in part because Bethenny isn't a fool. But until the trial, we can only speculate what the content of the emails were. Bethenny went to the police because she found it threatening, and the police at the time agreed because they arrested Jason. Jason has asked the judge - who gets to see the evidence - to dismiss the case and the judge hasn't. That tells me there's probably something concerning in the emails we haven't seen.

Quote

The police wouldn't arrest Jason unless the DA office said for them to and, sorry, money and fame do up the ante for them to prosecute someone. 

I really don't see Bethenny as so likeable or so famous or so rich  as to have the ability to get the DA to do "favors" for her. And seriously, she'd also need to have the judge doing her favors as well.

[Lemons]

41 minutes ago, film noire said:

Sure.

But why does he call me "Gloria"?

Have I  said, "You're never going to see your child again"?

Have I screamed  "You are white trash" at him?

Have I  thrown water on him while he was sleeping?

Because all of that crazy shit sounds just like the crap Gloria used to pull.

So if he's abusing me for giving it a name, let's make sure we're honest about why the name is being used to begin with -- and whatever came after the divorce, during the meltdown of the marriage/custody fight, Frankel was behaving very much like her own description of her mother; physically impulsive & out of control, viciously abusive and trying to drive a wedge between her child and the father of her child. And if Jason were the female party in this case -- a woman who had lost a baby, been informed of the divorce in a letter seven months later, had been called white trash, had water thrown on her while sleeping,  and told she would never see her child again-- nobody would question why she called him "Bernie",  or told him he was just like his abusive father. 

eta p.s.  @Jel Gloria was a perfect subbed name for Bernadette - they sound like sisters (heard Glo & Bernadette double-dated Clooney and Richard Gere back in the day) 

They both called each other names. Bethany was pretty horrible to Jason. It was a divorce.  It that unusual to bring out the ammunition of "you're just like your mother!"  Or "you're nothing but white trash anyway!"   But Jason was the one who crossed the line into harassment and stalking. So he's the one who was charged with a crime.

He really doesn't have an excuse to what he did,  his best bet is to keep delaying trial and to stay out of trouble.  Judges like to see that you have learned how to stop the bad behavior.  

[Jel]

23 minutes ago, film noire said:

Sure.

But why does he call me "Gloria"?

Have I  said, "You're never going to see your child again"?

Have I screamed  "You are white trash" at him?

Have I  thrown water on him while he was sleeping?

Because all of that crazy shit sounds just like the crap Gloria used to pull.

So if he's abusing me for giving it a name, let's make sure we're honest about why the name is being used to begin with -- and whatever came after the divorce, during the meltdown of the marriage/custody fight, Frankel was behaving very much like her own description of her mother; physically impulsive & out of control, viciously abusive and trying to drive a wedge between her child and the father of her child. And if Jason were the female party in this case -- a woman who had lost a baby, been informed of the divorce in a letter seven months later, had been called white trash, had water thrown on her while sleeping,  and told she would never see her child again-- nobody would question why she called him "Bernie",  or told him he was just like his abusive father. 

But why does he call me Gloria? I'll buzz in -- The abuser's answer will be "Because you deserved it, bitch!"  

But is that what you are saying, FN? that because she said and did a bunch of things that are Bernadette-like, that he's justified in taking a shot at her like that, right in the ol' baggage centre?  If so, I do not follow that logic.

He can't be both good-guy, long suffering Jason Hoppy AND be the guy who's doing the character assassination.  That kind of remark is a special kind of assholism -- it's the kind of thing that some of us adults might think, but would not actually say aloud because we understand that some things are just over the line. If he's a good guy he wouldn't say it, and if he's an emotional abuser, then he ain't a good guy.

It's funny, while I can find a little grey here and there in this whole thing, this one seems like such an easy one for me -- he was 100% dick in calling her that. It was an incredibly low blow, given her personal history, and he crossed a line that should not be crossed. I'm sure she would have preferred water thrown in her face. 

(This whole convo (from my side anyway) is based on the presumption that he just "calls her that". I don't know the context, I'm assuming.  If he said, "Bethenny, I think you are wrong and being unfair and behaving here, like Bernadette did, then" etc., that's different in my mind. )

[crgirl412]

2 hours ago, nexxie said:

Bryn, like Kensie and Saint Ravenel, is a pawn in the game two creeps are playing with each other. Poor little girl.

Kathryn tested positive for cocaine, opiates and something else so Thomas had to take the kids.  They are very different situations. 

[WireWrap]

28 minutes ago, ZoloftBlob said:

Maybe. But he could then go to the courts and point that out. He has civil options.  Being upset isn't an excuse to break the law. If it was, we'd have a LOT less murder trials. ;)

I genuinely don't know any divorced parent who believes the other parent's time with the kid is more important than theirs.

It sucks to be poor. My sister is constantly hauled into court by her ex who doesn't work and doesn't pay child support because he's unemployed, because his *parents* fund the lawyer. It's not fair.

I'm not sure what your point is. My point - and perhaps I could have stated it better - is that there's 160 emails and we've seen part of one quoted in People. If that one is the only one that is out of line, the *police* will have some explaining to do about arresting Jason. Anyone can head down to the police and file a complaint. It's the police who make the judgement call to arrest and if they based a stalking arrest on one threatening email, then it's New York State that Jason will be suing, not Bethenny.

I personally think the various emails probably were threatening, in part because Bethenny isn't a fool. But until the trial, we can only speculate what the content of the emails were. Bethenny went to the police because she found it threatening, and the police at the time agreed because they arrested Jason. Jason has asked the judge - who gets to see the evidence - to dismiss the case and the judge hasn't. That tells me there's probably something concerning in the emails we haven't seen.

I really don't see Bethenny as so likeable or so famous or so rich  as to have the ability to get the DA to do "favors" for her. And seriously, she'd also need to have the judge doing her favors as well.

Most parents realize the other parents time is equally important to the child(ren), not just their own time with them. Bethenny does not.

Sorry about your sisters issues with her nutty neighbor. 

Again, the parts of the emails on the police report are the ones that Bethenny gave as the most upsetting/threatening to her, she filled it out, not the police. And it is up to the DA's office if someone gets arrested (with a few exceptions), especially since Jason was not arrested until days later, which makes me suspect that the police didn't think there was an imminent threat from Jason towards Bethenny based on her complaint. Also, I have yet to read that Bethenny claimed that Jason threatened to physical harm her.
We will see how this all plays out next month. I suspect we will see blame lies equally on both sides, not just 1, which is even sadder for Bryn. 

Edited July 9, 2017 by WireWrap

[zoeysmom]

1 hour ago, ZoloftBlob said:

Maybe. But he could then go to the courts and point that out. He has civil options.  Being upset isn't an excuse to break the law. If it was, we'd have a LOT less murder trials. ;)

I genuinely don't know any divorced parent who believes the other parent's time with the kid is more important than theirs.

It sucks to be poor. My sister is constantly hauled into court by her ex who doesn't work and doesn't pay child support because he's unemployed, because his *parents* fund the lawyer. It's not fair.

I'm not sure what your point is. My point - and perhaps I could have stated it better - is that there's 160 emails and we've seen part of one quoted in People. If that one is the only one that is out of line, the *police* will have some explaining to do about arresting Jason. Anyone can head down to the police and file a complaint. It's the police who make the judgement call to arrest and if they based a stalking arrest on one threatening email, then it's New York State that Jason will be suing, not Bethenny.

I personally think the various emails probably were threatening, in part because Bethenny isn't a fool. But until the trial, we can only speculate what the content of the emails were. Bethenny went to the police because she found it threatening, and the police at the time agreed because they arrested Jason. Jason has asked the judge - who gets to see the evidence - to dismiss the case and the judge hasn't. That tells me there's probably something concerning in the emails we haven't seen.

I really don't see Bethenny as so likeable or so famous or so rich  as to have the ability to get the DA to do "favors" for her. And seriously, she'd also need to have the judge doing her favors as well.

If within the court order regarding custody and visitation the parties are required to communicate various things and Jason felt that Bethenny was failing to live up to it he might assert that as a defense. (Not saying he was right to persist in attempt to get her to communicate.)  His attorney could argue that Bethenny was upset by the outcome of the divorce as was using the system to get back at Jason where it hurt him the most with his daughter.  THi is just a guess but there may be some issues with smart ass comments between the two over the daily phone calls. 

I don't know of many contested custody cases where the moving party doesn't believe their time with the child is more important.  That is why they try and get more time and control over the situation.

I feel for your sister.  No fair to work to keep attorneys employed over one parties' refusal to work together.

Since the days of OJ Simpson, police and prosecutors have erred on the side of caution regarding harassment and DV cases.  None of them want to make the wrong call and have something go terribly wrong between the parties.  It is a Friday afternoon, a woman comes in with her attorney armed with a stack of emails and tells her side.  The cops decide to arrest him, he posts bond and is issued a desk citation to appear in court.  The DAs office reviews and proceeds.  Because all the charges are misdemeanors there is no Grand Jury or preliminary hearing, just arraignment and set for trial.  Prosecutors and the courts have immunity, short of a showing of malicious prosecution. 

Bethenny said in this week's episode a lot of them were nothing.   Being annoyed is not necessarily the same as being harassed.  I would find it annoying if my ex sent me an e-mail saying I will pray for you.  I don't know if the prosecution could elevate that to harassment.  Doesn't make it any less annoying to me.  At some point there must be some reason for the emails.  If it Jason trying to assert a parenting style over Bethenny then he is wrong.  If he is complaining about violations of the custody agreement then he may have some justification.  The earlier reports had him claiming he said he would "destroy he"r at the school.  The later reports did not have such a claim. 

The court doesn't necessarily look at the evidence in a motion to dismiss on a misdemeanor. If in this case it is just the emails, there would seem to be no reason to dismiss the case outright.  The Court prefers to leave it to the trier of fact.  Many times a motion to dismiss is just pro forma and has to be asserted at different times during the proceedings, to protect an appeal.  The case has a certain profile to it and to me, Bethenny's celebrity should neither be held for or against her. 

Edited July 9, 2017 by zoeysmom

[ZoloftBlob]

Quote

Most parents realize the other parents time is equally important to the child(ren), not just their own time with them. Bethenny does not.

Is this a statement of fact? That Bethenny does not?

Trust me, I know a ton of divorced parents who do not want their ex's to see their kids and don't think the kids seeing the ex is important. Are they right to think that? I can't say for certain. But I see that a lot more than parents claiming their ex's time is equally important.

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Sorry about your sisters issues with her nutty neighbor. 

Are you referencing my post? I was clearly using an example of custodial issues involving my sister and her ex, who because he has money from family is able to use the legal system to get his way. I was actually agreeing with you that people with deeper pockets have more legal assistance. There was no nutty neighbor referenced.

Quote

Again, the parts of the emails on the police report are the ones that Bethenny gave as the most upsetting/threatening to her, she filled it out, not the police. And it is up to the DA's office if someone gets arrested (with a few exceptions), especially since Jason was not arrested until days later, which makes me suspect that the police didn't think there was an imminent threat from Jason towards Bethenny based on her complaint. Also, I have yet to read that Bethenny claimed she feared physical harm from Jason, her complaint was "emotional harm". 

At last check the emails I am referring to are the examples referenced in the news reports and I am acknowledging that we have not seen all or even some of the emails.

Yes, it is up to the DA's office and the police if someone gets arrested. I absolutely agree that at the time of the arrest, the police didn't think Bethenny was in imminent threat from Jason... And I never said that at all, that Bethenny was in imminent threat. I feel like you're quoting me but responding to someone else.

I also agree I haven't seen *Bethenny* publically claim she feared physical harm from Jason but if the new charges are as Celia described:

Quote

but I am glad I read her little piece because while I knew Jason was facing two additional charges, I did NOT realize one of them is a 3rd degree stalking charge!  That means he supposedly said something to make Bethenny fear for her physical safety (as opposed to just emotional/business stuff in a 4th degree charge). 

That may be an indicator that someone - probably at the DA's office - has been looking through the emails and found something.

Remember - *Bethenny* didn't add to the charges - it was the District Attorney. Bethenny's actual complaint may NOT have referenced any fear of physical harm, but if the emails provided as evidence include an email that was physically threatening, that's what provokes the new charge... and Bethenny may never have complained about it directly when she was filing her complaint.

To use a non Bethenny example - If I call the cops out to arrest my neighbor because he was vandalizing my car, that's what my complaint is about. But if the cops get here, and see my neighbor also selling crack to local kids, he'll be arrested and charged with both, even though I never made any complaint about the crack dealing.

[film noire]

Quote

He can't be both good-guy, long suffering Jason Hoppy AND be the guy who's doing the character assassination. 

Neither of them are good guys --  but in this instance, she is worse than he is (and if he sent threatening emails, he is worse than she is).

Quote

 I'm sure she would have preferred water thrown in her face. 

I don't know what Frankel would prefer, but I had a mother who studied at the school of St. Bernadette and I'd much prefer being called by her name than waking up choking on water. That would freak me the fuck out for a very long time -- not just that specific attack (water, gasping, suddenly pulled awake) but I find physical boundaries being crossed much more threatening than any level of name-calling (however personal). The lack of impulse control in saying a word vs walking into somebody's bedroom and then dumping water on them while they're sleeping -  you have to be at such a higher level of rage to do the latter. If she'd done it when he was awake, it would be far less creepy -- but doing that to someone who is asleep makes my skin crawl.  

Edited July 9, 2017 by film noire

[zoeysmom]

35 minutes ago, ZoloftBlob said:

 

 

Yes, it is up to the DA's office and the police if someone gets arrested. I absolutely agree that at the time of the arrest, the police didn't think Bethenny was in imminent threat from Jason... And I never said that at all, that Bethenny was in imminent threat. I feel like you're quoting me but responding to someone else.

I also agree I haven't seen *Bethenny* publically claim she feared physical harm from Jason but if the new charges are as Celia described:

That may be an indicator that someone - probably at the DA's office - has been looking through the emails and found something.

Remember - *Bethenny* didn't add to the charges - it was the District Attorney. Bethenny's actual complaint may NOT have referenced any fear of physical harm, but if the emails provided as evidence include an email that was physically threatening, that's what provokes the new charge... and Bethenny may never have complained about it directly when she was filing her complaint.

To use a non Bethenny example - If I call the cops out to arrest my neighbor because he was vandalizing my car, that's what my complaint is about. But if the cops get here, and see my neighbor also selling crack to local kids, he'll be arrested and charged with both, even though I never made any complaint about the crack dealing.

I do think the police abided by Bethenny's claims.  Jason was arrested that day and a TRO was issued. 

Bethenny gave the evidence to the DA's office.  We don't know what gave the prosecution rise to file additional charges.  All the charges seem to be directly related to Bethenny and her complaints of being harassed and stalked.  I am not certain if there was independent discovery and investigation giving rise to the new charges.  Bethenny may have given them more emails and texts but I am trying to figure out how other than being presented by Bethenny harassment and stalking charges would apply. 

[RedheadZombie]

5 hours ago, QuinnM said:

Well the entire article is a POS example of journalism.  And I'm being generous.  The repeated reference to Bethenny's legal team illustrates how clueless the author is about what is happening.  Bethenny's legal team is not prosecuting the case. The district attorney for the state of New York is prosecuting the case.  So Tamara is off base from the start and only circles the drain as her point by point narrative continues.

She's not a journalist.  She a very biased blogger who used to be a school teacher. She often belittles her posters, encourages others to join her, and humiliates her posters for grammatical errors while making many herself.  She went on a tirade against me for having a problem with her calling NeNe a "dancing monkey".  I don't even watch the show but come on!  She also has a donate button.  She's had her own legal issues, so she really should avoid the topic.  But I'm pretty sure she hates Bethenny.  Who's her fave - Aviva. 

[WireWrap]

1 hour ago, ZoloftBlob said:

 

Are you referencing my post? I was clearly using an example of custodial issues involving my sister and her ex, who because he has money from family is able to use the legal system to get his way. I was actually agreeing with you that people with deeper pockets have more legal assistance. There was no nutty neighbor referenced.

 

Sorry, I got your post and something someone else said mixed up. I am sorry.

[WireWrap]

1 hour ago, film noire said:

Neither of them are good guys --  but in this instance, she is worse than he is (and if he sent threatening emails, he is worse than she is).

I don't know what Frankel would prefer, but I had a mother who studied at the school of St. Bernadette and I'd much prefer being called by her name than waking up choking on water. That would freak me the fuck out for a very long time -- not just that specific attack (water, gasping, suddenly pulled awake) but I find physical boundaries being crossed much more threatening than any level of name-calling (however personal). The lack of impulse control in saying a word vs walking into somebody's bedroom and then dumping water on them while they're sleeping -  you have to be at such a higher level of rage to do the latter. If she'd done it when he was awake, it would be far less creepy -- but doing that to someone who is asleep makes my skin crawl.  

I agree with you, she has impulse control problems, in addition too her need to blow things out of proportion/exaggerate, and that is why I can't/won't judge Jason guilty based on her word. 

Actually, wouldn't throwing water on him as he slept qualify as a physical attack on him? Which suggests me that she is a greater risk to him than the other way around.

[ZoloftBlob]

Quote

I do think the police abided by Bethenny's claims.  Jason was arrested that day and a TRO was issued. 

Bethenny gave the evidence to the DA's office.  We don't know what gave the prosecution rise to file additional charges.  All the charges seem to be directly related to Bethenny and her complaints of being harassed and stalked.  I am not certain if there was independent discovery and investigation giving rise to the new charges.  Bethenny may have given them more emails and texts but I am trying to figure out how other than being presented by Bethenny harassment and stalking charges would apply. 

Let me help. Bethenny provided the evidence to the DA's office. The people in the DA's office do actually look at the evidence that is presented to them.

Bethenny probably didn't quote law when she presented her case, as in she didn't say "He needs to be charged with stalking in the fifth degree and harassement in the 1st and 2nd degree" - she probably just said something to the effect of "I've told him not to email and he does and some of it is creepy and I am worried and he also tried to pick a fight with me at my daughter's school" She then gives up the emails as evidence.

We don't know what gave the prosecution reason to add more charges that indicate, if Celia is right, that he was physically threatening her. It could be that they interviewed Bethenny again and she said something about it, it could be that they were examining the evidence already given and found evidence of more criminal behavior and therefore added charges.

You are correct that Bethenny would have had to have initiated the police involvement and no one is saying Bethenny didn't go to the police and file charges. (Some people are saying she should have given Jason more civil options than just asking him to cease and desist before she went to the police but no one is saying Bethenny didn't go to the police with her concerns about Jason's behavior)

Once she went to the police, and the police arrested Jason,  the police and the DA do generally investigate the crime being alleged. If they find evidence of further crimes, they can then add to the charges. I think your argument is that Bethenny has to be the force behind the DA filing new charges and it certainly could be but it could also easily be independent discovery (aka looking thru the evidence and finding other crimes) Until the trial occurs, we won't know, but by all accounts, it doesn't sound like Bethenny has been down at the DA's office pushing her case forward.

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Actually, wouldn't throwing water on him as he slept qualify as a physical attack on him?

Probably not since it caused no physical damage. It could be considered harassing if she has done it multiple times. Jason is perfectly free to talk with the police about it.

[WireWrap]

1 minute ago, ZoloftBlob said:

 

Probably not since it caused no physical damage. It could be considered harassing if she has done it multiple times. Jason is perfectly free to talk with the police about it.

Why not? She walked into his private space with a container of water and threw it at him. She didn't do that to be funny or as a joke, she did it to cause him, at the very least, physical and emotional discomfort. She crossed the line, a big line IMO and it was physical, it was more threatening than some emails (what we have seen/read) that hurt her feelings and/or made her uncomfortable IMO. It also shows her as unstable, at the very least, and as "dangerous/threatening" as he is. Which again is why I think judging Jason "guilty" based on the info we have now is wrong.

[ZoloftBlob]

Wirewrap - I think I very clearly stated Jason was free to take it to the police.

I respectfully note we used to do this to each other in college. Generally for amusement value.

Quote

Which again is why I think judging Jason "guilty" based on the info we have now is wrong.

And again, I have been very respectful about not calling Jason guilty and that we should wait until the trial is concluded. Please stop directing this claim at me.

[Celia Rubenstein]

25 minutes ago, ZoloftBlob said:

We don't know what gave the prosecution reason to add more charges that indicate, if Celia is right, that he was physically threatening her. It could be that they interviewed Bethenny again and she said something about it, it could be that they were examining the evidence already given and found evidence of more criminal behavior and therefore added charges.

ugh I am loathe to drag out the statute, but if Jason has now been charged with 3rd degree stalking as has been reported, it would appear he made something that could be construed as a physical threat ... although I suppose it is possible that somehow it is being viewed as he had three victims and the charges were raised on that basis.  But I can't image who those people would be and that makes me suspect he implied something physical.  There isn't really enough info available to know for sure.

 

Quote

 

Code SectionPenal 240.26, .31; 120.45 to .60

Stalking Defined asStalking in the 4th degree: intentionally and with no legitimate purpose engages in conduct that s/he knows or should reasonably know: will cause reasonable fear of material harm to victim or member of victim's immediate family or causes material harm to mental or emotional health of victim or member of victim's immediate family or causes a reasonable fear that victim's employment or business is threatened; 3rd degree: Same as 4th degree when: 3 or more victims involved or victim has reasonable fear of physical harm or serious bodily injury; 2nd degree: same as 3rd degree when a weapon is involved in commission or 2nd conviction within 5 yrs. or if victim is 14 or under and actor is 21 or older; 1st degree: same as 3rd or 2nd degree with intentional or reckless physical harm to victim.

 

Before he was just facing 4th degree stalking charges, so apparently something new came to light.

Edited July 10, 2017 by Celia Rubenstein
because I can't type with a wiggling puppy on my lap

[WireWrap]

5 minutes ago, ZoloftBlob said:

Wirewrap - I think I very clearly stated Jason was free to take it to the police.

I respectfully note we used to do this to each other in college. Generally for amusement value.

And again, I have been very respectful about not calling Jason guilty and that we should wait until the trial is concluded. Please stop directing this claim at me.

The "guilty" comment was not directed at you personally but as a general statement because some are saying he is guilty.

I suspect that the water dousing will come up in the trial. Doing it in college is one thing but as an adult, it is not acceptable, especially with someone you claim you hate.