Mistresses - General Discussion

[TVForever]

April needs to step back and reassess everything in her life. She's gotten rid of decent men for odd reasons,( although I could see where trusting the FBI guy who was initially playing her but ended up actually falling for her could be difficult), the other guys, while not perfect, seemed to be good guys who really cared for April. More importantly, they were mature adults with their own lives and their own minds. And who does April choose to share her life with? Mark, the immature man-child with no plan beyond " I wanna be a rock star!" Oh yeah, and he's good with her kid. So hire him as a babysitter, April, and get yourself a mature relationship. Instead, she SOLD HER HOUSE in order to downsize to better support him. What?!?!

And by the way, why is the situation with Michael causing her so much stress? No, you didn't do anything to encourage any romantic feelings in this guy. But you have discovered an interest in and talent for interior decorating. So maybe let that be your takeaway. Let Michael know that your  relationship is purely professional or not at all, then get about building your business with or without him. For goodness' sake, she already owns a home furnishings shop, I would have thought this would have been a part of her business already!

[Milks26]

Episodes 1-4:

This show has gotten so bad, its simply ridiculous now. None of the characters storyline are worthwhile or jive with the character. It was never this hold your breath type of show, but S3 showed signs of the initial ball drop, but now its been buried deep down in the ocean.

The biggest mistake the show made for S4 was not recasting Savi, and bringing this disaster of an actress and character called Harry's sister into the ensemble. Not, only is her storyline nonsense the character is annoying.

[Milks26]

April and Mark make absolutely no sense whatsoever. But, wait the reason behind him living with her in S3 was beyond nonsense  - so why would their relationship make any sense?

I'm still wondering why the writers screwed with Blair's character and settle on this guy?

Her attraction to Michael is probably due to her need to have an adult male in her life. But, the actor playing Michael is a trans-man. Don't know if that will be worked into the show. But, why would they hire a transsexual when they could have casted an actual male in the role if they had no plans to go there?

Hated Karen's 3some ridiculous storyline in S3 - and this season seems even worse.

Joss and Harry was kinda tantalizing towards the end of S2, but now its just boring and bad. By the way - how many times is Harry going to open a restaurant, then lose it, then open another, and another....?

Don't get me started on Harry's annoying ridiculously casted sister? Nothing worthwhile is there. Why add her when they could've just re-casted Savi - and truly test the mantle of Harry's love?

[ottoDbusdriver]

Karen's agent is unimpressed with her new book proposals

Karen's agent can get in line -- the viewers are also not impressed.

April quits her job after being kissed by Michael

April quits "the job" that she never really had since she was in the process of still being hired when Michael kissed her --  so it's not really "quitting".  She wasted a great deal of effort putting together ideas for this guy and never got a dime, so I would probably call it "volunteering".

Joss and Harry struggle with their new working relationship.

Huh ?  Last we saw Harry was working on his Mark-free restaurant ('cause Mark is always pushing to play at Harry's new place) and Joss may have landed that vapid Stacey the singer as a client, so what working relationship are they talking about ?  What about Joss' PTSD that she doesn't want to talk about ?

[KaveDweller]

Wow, Harry's sister gave some horrible advice to April. She fits right in on this show.

I agree with Harry that him and Joss working together is a really, really bad idea. 

Karen's still an idiot. What did she think was going to happen when she insulted her agent's other client like that? Especially when she hasn't come up with any appealing book ideas.  But I'm confused, because I thought Joss was Karen's publicist and Tia Mowrey was her agent, as in the person who would get her a deal with a publisher. Not the person who would book her on media interviews or who would represent people who weren't writers.

[chocolatine]

I'm not a member of the trans community, but I'm offended on their behalf. First, Michael "finally" feels like a "real man" after getting punched in the face. Apparently he's never felt like a "real man" until then, and the hormone therapy and multiple surgeries were just for shits and giggles. Then April asks for the job back (a job she never officially had, as otto astutely observed) and says Mark isn't jealous anymore because Michael is not a cis male. Then April says she connected with Michael's "girl" self, but would never date a trans person. Who writes this crap?!?!

I know other characters did other stupid things in this episode, but I don't even care because I'm so pissed off by the transphobic BS. 

Edited July 5, 2016 by chocolatine

[TVForever]

Really April? Only now that Mark has done something legally actionable do you realize that this young man ( emphasis on "young") is a problem?  

[Free]

9 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

Wow, Harry's sister gave some horrible advice to April. She fits right in on this show.

I agree with Harry that him and Joss working together is a really, really bad idea. 

Karen's still an idiot. What did she think was going to happen when she insulted her agent's other client like that? Especially when she hasn't come up with any appealing book ideas.  But I'm confused, because I thought Joss was Karen's publicist and Tia Mowrey was her agent, as in the person who would get her a deal with a publisher. Not the person who would book her on media interviews or who would represent people who weren't writers.

Must've gotten some advice from Joss' stupidity when she tried to harass her way into a new client a while back.

7 hours ago, chocolatine said:

I'm not a member of the trans community, but I'm offended on their behalf. First, Michael "finally" feels like a "real man" after getting punched in the face. Apparently he's never felt like a "real man" until then, and the hormone therapy and multiple surgeries were just for shits and giggles. Then April asks for the job back (a job she never officially had, as otto astutely observed) and says Mark isn't jealous anymore because Michael is not a cis male. Then April says she connected with Michael's "girl" self, but would never date a trans person. Who writes this crap?!?!

I know other characters did other stupid things in this episode, but I don't even care because I'm so pissed off by the transphobic BS. 

This show should not try to cover serious topics, it just shouldn't.  I can see why this episode was dumped on the 4th of July though.

[luckyroll3]

Didn't realize this aired last night.  Off to watch now to be whelmed, as usual.

[FrancesL]

Quote

I'm not a member of the trans community, but I'm offended on their behalf. First, Michael "finally" feels like a "real man" after getting punched in the face. Apparently he's never felt like a "real man" until then, and the hormone therapy and multiple surgeries were just for shits and giggles. Then April asks for the job back (a job she never officially had, as otto astutely observed) and says Mark isn't jealous anymore because Michael is not a cis male. Then April says she connected with Michael's "girl" self, but would never date a trans person. Who writes this crap?!?!

I don't think he was trying to say that he finally felt like a "real man" I think he was trying to say that it was good to be perceived and treated like a man by others, and he knew that would change once he told April the truth. Unfortunately, I could see this entire scenario happening in real life, given that most people are very clueless about the trans community and probably haven't had many significant interaction with trans people. The character Michael is also played by a well-known comedian in the trans community who uses the platform to enlighten people, so it's possible that the subject matter was a reflection of his own personal experiences. He has a lot of videos on youtube.

Edited July 6, 2016 by FrancesL

[KaveDweller]

51 minutes ago, FrancesL said:

I don't think he was trying to say that he finally felt like a "real man" I think he was trying to say that it was good to be perceived and treated like a man by others, and he knew that would change once he told April the truth. Unfortunately, I could see this entire scenario happening in real life, given that most people are very clueless about the trans community and probably haven't had many significant interaction with trans people. The character Michael is also played by a well-known comedian in the trans community who uses the platform to enlighten people, so it's possible that the subject matter was a reflection of his own personal experiences. He has a lot of videos on youtube.

Yeah, I didn't think the reference to feeling like a "real man" was as insulting as April's, "well of course I'd never date a trans person" or the suggestion that the connection she had with him was  with his inner woman. I know most people haven't had experience with someone who's transgender, but I can't believe she was that clueless about it. I mean, she didn't just say that stuff to Kate, she said it right to Michael's face.

[formerlyfreedom]

Alec makes a surprise visit and turns Karen’s life upside down when he reveals something new in his life. April and Marc butt heads when it comes to parenting Lucy, putting a strain on their relationship. Kate discovers her new love interest has close ties to Joss and Harry. Joss and Harry get invited to Las Vegas by Harry’s new business partner, Jonathan, and Joss snaps unexpectedly just before they are to be married.

 

 

[ottoDbusdriver]

Karen really is an idiot -- sidestepping all the sexiness of her first book to write her 2nd book about mindefulness, or maybe getting away from sex altogether.  They are just bad ideas.

Karen's agent needs to pull a Rosalind Shays from LA Law and go for a walk down an elevator shaft for using the word 'phantasmic'.  I bet Marc Maron is cringing that his name was dragged into this ridiculous show.

Karen is just terrible at trying to pull off the "roll with the punches line" -- like honest to goodness terrible.  Oh wow, Karen is going to go on Love Chat -- because while they probably didn't get Marc Maron's approval to name drop, Dr. Drew probably didn't want his "good name" associated with this show.  But Jason Hughes is another of Rebecca's clients -- does this show not know the difference between an agent and a publicist ?  Because based on what Joss does -- which most certainly isn't PR -- I don't think they do.

As Randy wows Kate with his mad barista skillz, Kate joins Joss, April and Karen going over April's man troubles with Michael, with everyone offering various pieces of advice. Kate is so stupid she thinks that Karen calls her an 'idiot' when Karen uses the word 'idiom'.  That's stupid even for this show -- is Kate registering in mid-double digit IQ points, but it would explain a lot about her.

Joss is gaga that Karen will be on Love Chat, and prides her self on knowing all about minor celebrities who might need PR work, and proves her knowledge of such things by referencing Leonardo DiCaprio -- and Kate thinks this is her cue to go find out Leo for herself.  What a deluded idiot ?

Quickly cut to night time and Harry and Joss are having dinner with creepy billionaire Jonathon and his wife, and Joss takes this opportunity to insert herself into Harry's restaurant plans much to Harry's chagrin.  Joss brags that she is "one of the best" publicists -- ummm, not that we've seen, and certainly not after barely a year.

And for some reason that is never explained, April meets with Michael at a restaurant patio -- after she told him to GTFO of her store when he kissed her.  And apparently they are meeting under the guise of apologizing about ceiling tiles, Michael apologizes and said it was just bad timing.  WTF ?  Surprisingly, April catches that little 'timing' tidbit and leaves as Michael explains that he felt something between.  Really ? This guy is as dull as dirt.  I still don't understand why she met up with him -- did she really think she was working for him and just going to gloss over the whole kissing thing ?

Harry and Joss get home and Harry is a little POed about Joss' actions at dinner -- and Joss is pissed because she felt entitled to the job because she's his girlfriend.  I don't think Joss gets that she would be an employee to Harry's restaurant, whereas she feels she's an equal partner -- it really does change the whole couple dynamic if he can fire her if she screws up.

Karen goes to record the Love Chat podcast, and really doesn't check out the guy beforehand (thanks Joss) because he destroys Karen and her book right off the bat.

Mark comes back to April's house and they discuss Lucy's boyfriend/not boyfriend, and April tells Mark that she got fired yesterday because he was too demanding (how many interior designers are on-call 24x7, not even Mark is stupid enough to buy that) -- but then Mark catches her in the lie.  Dun, dun, dun, dun !!!!

Harry makes breakfast for Kate, and Kate makes some crack about Harrison Ford buying her a lunch box and kissing her goodbye -- is that an Aussie euphemism for something else ?  And she explains that that is the reason why she wanted a sister ?  I still don't get it, is it a movie reference ?

Joss enters the kitchen in a towel, and tries to explain in point form why they should work together.  And while Joss reasons are pretty weak, Harry says that he discussed it with creepy Jonathon and hires her.  And when she hugs Harry, the big bruise on her right shoulder from last episode has gone missing.  Are they just going to ditch the whole Joss injuring herself, because those cracked ribs seemed to have completely healed since last episode ?

Mark decides to insert himself in the whole April-Michael thing and confronts Michael -- seriously, who does that ? And during their collective apologizing to one another Michael lets it drop that he kissed April.  And Mark punches Michael right in the face and storms off.  I guess Mark walked all the way home from Michael's house because it was dark by the time he gets back home.  Mark is all pissy and jealous of April kissing Michael while April thinks she's above it all.  Mark exclaims "I'm walking" and a leaves -- is it too much to hope that Mark never comes back ?

Karen shows up at her office in the morning and discovers this Jason Hughes from the podcast is waiting in her office -- at least he's not banging someone while wearing a superhero costume.   He wants her to come back on his podcast because it got big numbers (well, big numbers for a podcast) and Karen sticks to her guns and says no.

Joss starts going over Harry's biography so she can build a profile for him, and the whole divorced and banging his former sister-in-law kind of comes up.  And Harry regales Joss with the tale of his first dish, and she wants to bang him so she asks one of her assistant to leave.

Kate hears a noise behind a blue door, and finds Randy naked and making out with a guy in the closet.  Oh nooeeesss !!!!

April returns to Michael's house -- why exactly ? -- and Michael is actually excited that he got punched in the face.  But Michael explains that he has been hiding a secret -- that he is trans-gender.  April just stands there agog.  So was there ever a wife named Theresa coming in from the East Coast -- once upon a time maybe, but not currently.  So was the whole interior designer to satisfy his "wife"'s demands was just bullshit ?  So did Michael lie to the previous interior designer as well ?  What does Michael actually do because he appears to be very wealthy but spends all his days just decorating his house ?

Kate is all judgmental about Randy's indiscretion in the closet because Randy was with a married man -- and Kate hates the cheating, dontcha know.  Even though that was what she was trying to do when she came to LA.  Because she has standards and morals -- STFU Kate.  Which writer thought it would be a great to bring in yet another unlikable dumb main character ?

Karen and Joss go for a walk in the hills where Joss tells her that her podcast performance sucked. And then gives Karen a pep talk to take charge of the next podcast -- are they lining up Jason Hughes to bang Karen ?

April returns to the store dumbfounded -- as Kate offers to listen because back home she had her own "lady posse" -- that Michael used to be a woman (but April keeps saying girl for some reason).  In her infinite wisdom, Kate explains that is all ok because April must have had some attraction at some level, so they can continue working together.  Kate is just really terrible, offering really terrible advice and April just laps it all up.

Karen tries to take control of the podcast -- she does know that podcasts aren't broadcast live and that Jason can edit it any way he wants ?

Kate discovers that Joss kind of over-inflated Harry's bio -- and Harry is surprised by this ?  Joss says it just like photoshopping, but with words.  That is just so sad that a writer put that to paper.  And big surprise Joss just ignores 'Harry the client' because as 'Joss the girlfriend' she and her crew know best.  Harry demands she change the web site, and poor little Joss' feelings are hurt.

Cut to Mark playing guitar as April comes home and explains that Michael is trans-gender.  And the really weird thing is that April says she has been working for Michael "for weeks".  Weeks ?  Ummm, no.  Days maybe, a week tops.

Kate gets a lecture from Randy because he broke up with the married man -- though he never explains why they broke up -- and blames Kate for it.  And how he, Randy, has rarely found real love and wants to get married and have kids. And Kate knows nothing because she has been in LA all of 5 minutes.  Go Randy, I'm glad someone finally laid into Kate.

Hah, Karen gets fired by her snooty agent because she humiliated Jason Hughes on the podcast.  And the agent goes on some high and mighty diatribe about how her soul will not be compromised.  But Karen gets in the last shot.

Billionaire Jonathon has background checked Joss and found out that she is "strong in her field" and "good at what she does" -- really ?  i find that hard to believe in that short of a period of time.  But he gives Harry the option to ditch her.

Karen is feeling sorry for herself and has a few drinks as she gets a pep talk from her receptionist.

Harry comes home and kind of makes up with Joss, and finds a new Ducati motorcycle in his living room.  As Kate watches from across the room at the happy couple, she gets a call from 'Taco Guy', a guy she met that runs a taco guy but she turned down because he was separated and not fully divorced, you know, because of her high morals and standards.  Of course she answers the call.  Where are those high morals and standards now ?

And April is back at Michael's house ... again.  April stumbles through an apology of sorts as Michael determines April is no longer interested in him -- and for this they censor the 'shit' in bullshit.  Michael keeps talking around how April could never be attracted to him .... again .... as April sputters that she was never attracted to him.  Michael is a bit of an presumptive asshole -- and doesn't get how April can't be into him -- so he kicks her out.  But that's ok, I'm sure April will be back numerous times to visit next episode.

After Karen sleeps off the booze in her office, she goes back to her apartment to discover someone outside her door -- who can it be ?  My money is on the ghost of Thomas Grey, but it's probably the asshole doctor from last season that split after Vivien died.  And wants his child all for himself.

[FrancesL]

Quote

Yeah, I didn't think the reference to feeling like a "real man" was as insulting as April's, "well of course I'd never date a trans person" or the suggestion that the connection she had with him was  with his inner woman. I know most people haven't had experience with someone who's transgender, but I can't believe she was that clueless about it. I mean, she didn't just say that stuff to Kate, she said it right to Michael's face.

I suspect that a lot of people think  ( theoretically) that they would never date a transgender person, probably due to their misconceptions about trans people, April feeling this way wasn't the unrealistic part. Like you said, it was what she told him. Like you, I found it hard to believe that someone like April would be that insensitive and clueless to make those comments to his face.   It seemed more like a lazy plot device that the writers used in order to broach the topic. It's unfortunate that in doings so, they ruined April's character.  

[Jillybean]

My God, this show is terrible. I mean, that isn't exactly breaking news, but I think it has hit a new low.

[chocolatine]

21 hours ago, FrancesL said:

I don't think he was trying to say that he finally felt like a "real man" I think he was trying to say that it was good to be perceived and treated like a man by others, and he knew that would change once he told April the truth. 

YMMV, but I think that in light of all the violence/hate crimes trans people face, suggesting that a trans man would be happy about being punched in the face is ridiculous. Again, not a trans person myself, but I highly doubt that in real life any trans person would have that reaction. Like Free said, the show doesn't know how to handle serious topics, so they should go back to the trashy summer fun it was supposed to be.

[FrancesL]

Quote

YMMV, but I think that in light of all the violence/hate crimes trans people face, suggesting that a trans man would be happy about being punched in the face is ridiculous. Again, not a trans person myself, but I highly doubt that in real life any trans person would have that reaction. Like Free said, the show doesn't know how to handle serious topics, so they should go back to the trashy summer fun it was supposed to be.

When I first watched the episode, the portrayal of Michael seemed unrealistic to me too.  Then I read that the actor paying MIchael was Ian Harvie,  apparently a well known and successful comedian and advocate in the transgender community. Harvey mentioned that working on the Mistresses set was a very positive experience for him, partially because of the show's  willingness to work with GLAAD, who were also given the opportunity to review the script. Of course you could argue that the writers ignored the suggestions and did things their own way, but since this topic is uncharted territory for most writers, I'd like to think that they would have taken any input seriously. 

I'm guessing that every trans person has their own personal experiences and given that I'm not trans and have had very little contact with trans people, I can't presume to know how they'd feel in every circumstance or whether they'd be offended by this Mistresses  episode, and I'm definitely not in a position to say how they should feel either (e.g. in reference to the punching incident). I think that Mistresses tackling the subject is a good thing, even if done awkwardly; there are so few shows that even tried to tackle this issue. If this episode helps to enlighten viewers or subconsciously make people more empathetic, then in the end it's a good thing.  And yes, the transgender community has faced a lot of violence, but, Marc punching Michael had nothing to do with him being transgender. 

Edited July 7, 2016 by FrancesL

[Free]

On 7/6/2016 at 5:15 PM, chocolatine said:

YMMV, but I think that in light of all the violence/hate crimes trans people face, suggesting that a trans man would be happy about being punched in the face is ridiculous. Again, not a trans person myself, but I highly doubt that in real life any trans person would have that reaction. Like Free said, the show doesn't know how to handle serious topics, so they should go back to the trashy summer fun it was supposed to be.

Agreed, but that's also the bigger problem with the show, it's getting further and further away from the trashy guilty pleasure it used to be.

[pitchy]

On ‎6‎/‎30‎/‎2016 at 4:41 PM, luckyroll3 said:

Didn't he also turn her in for being unprofessional and having unethical relationships with her patients?  Or was that someone else?

 

On ‎6‎/‎30‎/‎2016 at 2:16 PM, catrice2 said:

What happened to Karen's partner or colleague that liked her? He was not attractive, but the closest she has had at a shot at a normal relationship. Has there been any back story to explain why Karen is so crazy?  

He left to be a gigolo to the male Chief of Staff to the President of the United States in "Scandal."

At least that's where I saw him soon after he disappeared from this show.

[ottoDbusdriver]

Kate is banging Shoeguy ??  Fucking Shoeguy !!  If that isn't a sign that the writer's have run out of ideas, I don't know what is.
And she's crying over the movie Splash -- I guess Kate hasn't found out about his foot fetish yet.  I found it hard to believe that she met Shoeguy at a taco truck.

What the fuck is up with Joss -- first she's all excited about a comped weekend in Vegas, then she's all concerned about the comping and costs, then she wants to get married, then she kicks the shit out of creepy billionaire's nephew, then she doesn't want to get married because family and friends matter all of a sudden, and then she reveals her guilty feelings to her self-defense class instructor.

No big surprise that the dirtbag husband of poor dead Vivien is back with a new wife in tow and he wants full custody of Vivien (the baby) because Karen isn't morally fit to be a parent -- where did this asshole suddenly get his morals from ?  He was right there in the middle of all the threeways, no one put a gun to his head.  Of course he sues for full custody -- and Karen is pretty pissed.

At least there was no Michael this episode but the April and Mark colluding to make Lucy go to church was such a snoozefest.

ETA: I hope Charo got paid for getting her name dropped multiple times.

Edited July 12, 2016 by ottoDbusdriver

[Free]

Quote

At least there was no Michael this episode but the April and Mark colluding to make Lucy go to church was such a snoozefest.

Trying to force Mark in the parent role, is just boring.

Quote

No big surprise that the dirtbag husband of poor dead Vivien is back with a new wife in tow and he wants full custody of Vivien (the baby) because Karen isn't morally fit to be a parent -- where did this asshole suddenly get his morals from ?  He was right there in the middle of all the threeways, no one put a gun to his head.  Of course he sues for full custody -- and Karen is pretty pissed.

Exactly, when was he all high and mighty about morals when he was having a 3 way last season and using Karen?

Quote

Kate is banging Shoeguy ??  Fucking Shoeguy !!  If that isn't a sign that the writer's have run out of ideas, I don't know what is.
And she's crying over the movie Splash -- I guess Kate hasn't found out about his foot fetish yet.  I found it hard to believe that she met Shoeguy at a taco truck.

This episode especially brought back some old characters, so I guess there was a theme going on for the writers.

Quote

What the fuck is up with Joss -- first she's all excited about a comped weekend in Vegas, then she's all concerned about the comping and costs, then she wants to get married, then she kicks the shit out of creepy billionaire's nephew, then she doesn't want to get married because family and friends matter all of a sudden, and then she reveals her guilty feelings to her self-defense class instructor.

Oh, that's the PlotTSD, writers use that to lazily excuse character inconsistencies only when it's convenient, they're fine in some scenes and in others they have problems when necessary.

[KaveDweller]

26 minutes ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

What the fuck is up with Joss -- first she's all excited about a comped weekend in Vegas, then she's all concerned about the comping and costs, then she wants to get married, then she kicks the shit out of creepy billionaire's nephew, then she doesn't want to get married because family and friends matter all of a sudden, and then she reveals her guilty feelings to her self-defense class instructor.

I think Joss didn't want to get married because she was freaked out about beating the guy up, and just used that as an excuse. But she clearly has some serious issues. And that kickboxing coach does not seem to be giving her good advice. I don't know if she's also trained to be a counselor, but she's acting like it and it seems really off.

When did Alec turn into such a dick? I mean, I know he abandoned his child and all, but I could almost understand a person being overwhelmed by grief and not being able to support a child. I don't think that's an excuse, but I understand it. I don't understand him suddenly wanting custody and thinking Karen is immoral. It was pretty dumb for Karen to sleep with someone who works for her, but that doesn't make her an unfit parent. And if he got married months ago, he wasn't really too grief-stricken to support the kid. He and the new wife should have been grateful Karen was willing to give them solo visits so quickly. It's such a far turn from what we last saw of the character, and is clearly just done for drama.

Alec is the one that was testing people's blood without their permission to find a donor for his wife. I bet dropping that tidbit to his new bosses could lose him that job offer. Karen may not be smart enough to think of this.

I didn't even realize Kate was with Joss's ex until I was halfway through the scene. I was like, oh, Fox Crane from Passions is Kate's boyfriend, wait wasn't he on the show as someone else? And then I realized he was Joss is ex and that was intentional to create more angst. From the preview it looks like someone tips off Kate to the shoe thing.

[Free]

Quote

When did Alec turn into such a dick? I mean, I know he abandoned his child and all, but I could almost understand a person being overwhelmed by grief and not being able to support a child. I don't think that's an excuse, but I understand it. I don't understand him suddenly wanting custody and thinking Karen is immoral. It was pretty dumb for Karen to sleep with someone who works for her, but that doesn't make her an unfit parent. And if he got married months ago, he wasn't really too grief-stricken to support the kid. He and the new wife should have been grateful Karen was willing to give them solo visits so quickly. It's such a far turn from what we last saw of the character, and is clearly just done for drama.

Alec is the one that was testing people's blood without their permission to find a donor for his wife. I bet dropping that tidbit to his new bosses could lose him that job offer. Karen may not be smart enough to think of this.

The custody part seems ridiculous, especially when there's a lot she can use against him like you've just mentioned.

Edited July 12, 2016 by Free

[catrice2]

Wow, no court in the real world would give custody to Karen unless they can really come up with stuff about the father.  She slept with a father and son, was accused of killing the father, in direct violation of her professional ethics. 

She has admitted to picking up random men for sex in hotels, leading to an HIV scare, which implies unprotected sex. She was in the relationship with Alec and his wife...and these are just the things that they have shown.   She then wrote a book about it, which the child can grow up to read.  Her close friends and character witnesses are Joss, another accused killer which has a history of promiscuity marrying her sister's husband, a woman that hid the fact that her criminal husband was still alive. 

Alec can always argue that he became involved in the relationship because his wife was dying and he wanted to make her happy.  it is not uncommon for men to marry quickly after their wife dies, and the new  wife according to TVLine is a doctor?  

So we have a married doctor, who has a wife and stable job, was previously in a 20 year marriage, against single Karen (does she have a job?) whose claim to fame is a lot of failed sexual relationships, who has disciplined by the medical profession and slept with the person she hired to care for her child, indicating she has no impulse control.  Only on TV would she get custody, so of course she will. 

Why would the show worry about Harry's sister with Joss' ex?  He is sleeping with his sister in law whom lived with him and his wife as a family!  On what moral ground could they stand? 

[Free]

Quote

Why would the show worry about Harry's sister with Joss' ex?  He is sleeping with his sister in law whom lived with him and his wife as a family!  On what moral ground could they stand? 

On plot contrivance and drama of course.  Karen seems to be the source of drama since the other 2 have been fully paired up so the new girl has to make up for that.

[chocolatine]

With all the secrecy about "taco guy", I knew it would be Scott before the reveal.

9 hours ago, catrice2 said:

Why would the show worry about Harry's sister with Joss' ex?

I can see why Scott wouldn't want any part of that, especially if he's still not completely over Joss.

What is it with TV shows and suing for full custody plot contrivances? My understanding is that parents in the US almost always get joint custody, unless one of them is severely unfit - e.g. drug abuse, criminal neglect, multiple felonies, etc. Karen may not be the perfect Stepford housewife, but she makes sure that the baby is well cared for, whereas Alec was completely absent for the first six months of her life (judging by Karen's surprise at seeing him, they're not even in regular phone/email contact about the baby). And why was Alec in such a tizzy about who was watching Lil' Vivian while Karen was having sex with Robert? If he gets custody of her, is he never going to have sex with his wife while the baby is asleep in the other room? That was the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

[catrice2]

Lord, when you said paired up I had to remember April and the man child, along with her bratty daughter.  Do they not spend anytime around each other with their kids, etc.?  Real friends would try to tell her she needs to get the little girl in order, regardless of her tragic "reveal" that her father was still alive, etc.  

As I think about it, it would have been way more interesting to put April with Joss' ex.  I'm sure no one really even cares about the sister, including Joss.  Wasn't April Savi's really good friend?  It seems odd that she would not mention Savi, and that she would be so behind Joss' relationship with Harry.  Has she even mentioned going to visit her or anything?  From what you guys are writing, does Joss have a job?  Have they tried to make Harry marginally interesting? 

[catrice2]

Oh, they will let him off for that claiming that he was still grieving his wife's death, or some other reason.  Courts still view a two parent home as more stable than a single parent, unless, as you say, there is something criminal, medical, etc. that makes the two parent home less desirable. 

Courts tend to be pretty conservative, so his getting married within x number of months and Karen moving into a sexual relationship with the nanny won't be viewed as the same thing. He could argue the baby was being neglected if they were having sex while the nanny was supposed to be caring for the child.  It is all so silly, including having Joss's ex with Harry's sister, and of course having man child's girlfriend come back and coincidentally be in his band. 

[Adira]

17 hours ago, catrice2 said:

Wow, no court in the real world would give custody to Karen unless they can really come up with stuff about the father.  She slept with a father and son, was accused of killing the father, in direct violation of her professional ethics. 

She has admitted to picking up random men for sex in hotels, leading to an HIV scare, which implies unprotected sex. She was in the relationship with Alec and his wife...and these are just the things that they have shown.   She then wrote a book about it, which the child can grow up to read.  Her close friends and character witnesses are Joss, another accused killer which has a history of promiscuity marrying her sister's husband, a woman that hid the fact that her criminal husband was still alive. 

Alec can always argue that he became involved in the relationship because his wife was dying and he wanted to make her happy.  it is not uncommon for men to marry quickly after their wife dies, and the new  wife according to TVLine is a doctor?  

So we have a married doctor, who has a wife and stable job, was previously in a 20 year marriage, against single Karen (does she have a job?) whose claim to fame is a lot of failed sexual relationships, who has disciplined by the medical profession and slept with the person she hired to care for her child, indicating she has no impulse control.  Only on TV would she get custody, so of course she will. 

Why would the show worry about Harry's sister with Joss' ex?  He is sleeping with his sister in law whom lived with him and his wife as a family!  On what moral ground could they stand? 

Actually, most courts/judges are really loathe to take a child away from its mother.  There would have to be some serious abuse or neglect for them to do that!  Considering that Karen has a stable job and is able to support her daughter, there's no way they are taking that baby away from her, despite everything in her past!  At most they might grant Alec joint custody, but there's no way he's getting full custody.

[greekmom]

So Alec went from being ok to having a polymorous relationship with Karen and his wife but now is all high and mighty moral values?  Me suspects that the new wife has something to do with this.  On top of that she is giving up her career to be a stay at home wife?  Again, I think there is something going on behind the scenes.  Usually in tvland when the other parent sues for full custody it’s because they cannot have kids.  This storyline is really pissing me off.  I would have been more convinced if Alec came back with new wife in tow and wanted to continue the threesome with Karen.  The fact that he participated in the polymorous relationship with Karen as well as testing people behind their backs to save Vivian Sr makes me really doubtful that any tv  judge would see him as upstanding citizen.  Man, I wish they would bring back Vivan Sr from the dead and have him bitch slap Alec.  I think she cared for Karen a lot more than Alec did.

I don’t care about Josh and Harry.  April, man child and bratty daughter are a snooze.  Harry’s sister and shoe fetish guy are boring.   If there was anything better on, I would take it over this crapfest.  I am at the point of hate watching.

[luckyroll3]

I totally fell into a 10-15 minute nap about half-way through this mess, and the only reason I even considered rewinding (which I didn't end up doing cause I wanted it to be over!) was because Harry said "what about Charo", and my response was, "Shit I missed Charo?  I love me some Charo!"

Saw those long slender abs on Kate's new boo and knew instantly that it was shoeguy.  But what happened with the fetish? He popped that out, partially, on Joss, during the first date.  And did he get married after Joss left him at the alter?  Kate said he was separated. 

I see April's daughter had reclaimed her brattiness and April is still not disciplining her for that smart-ass mouth. 

On ‎7‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 8:46 PM, KaveDweller said:

Alec is the one that was testing people's blood without their permission to find a donor for his wife. I bet dropping that tidbit to his new bosses could lose him that job offer. Karen may not be smart enough to think of this.

If only Karen was this smart.  But she's not.  Since they're bringing all these past people back, hopefully she'll get Savi's sexy lawyer partner as her attorney.  Also, those black heels she had on in the opening scene were fire! 

[chocolatine]

4 hours ago, luckyroll3 said:

And did he get married after Joss left him at the alter?  Kate said he was separated. 

Yes, and pretty quickly. He asked Joss for the ring back because it was a family heirloom, and he said he needed it because he was going to propose to someone. I think it was an old girlfriend that he was going to propose to rather than someone he had just met, but even then I had the feeling that it wouldn't end well for him.

17 hours ago, catrice2 said:

Courts tend to be pretty conservative, so his getting married within x number of months and Karen moving into a sexual relationship with the nanny won't be viewed as the same thing. He could argue the baby was being neglected if they were having sex while the nanny was supposed to be caring for the child.  It is all so silly, including having Joss's ex with Harry's sister, and of course having man child's girlfriend come back and coincidentally be in his band. 

Maybe that would have been the case in the 1950s, but there's no way a family court judge in progressive California in 2016 is going to ding Karen for having sex with the man she was dating at the time while the baby was safely asleep in her crib in the next room. If that was a sign of being an unfit parent, 90% of all parents would have their children taken away from them. And there's no way the judge is going to hand-wave Alec's abandonment since he's the one who did a 180 from not even keeping in contact with Karen to find out how his child is doing, to showing up out of the blue and demanding full custody. 

[catrice2]

It also true that in the past courts (which usually in family court means 1 judge) did lean more towards the female parent. That is slowly, but surely changing, especially in the cases where you are talking about two seemingly educated professionals.  In fact in some jurisdictions they are making a huge effort to show they are not biased towards parents based upon gender because of previous rulings. It is a crap shoot, quite frankly, depending on the judge you get. That was evidenced in the recent sexual assault case  of the swimmer, or the case I just read about in Canada where the judge asked the victim why she did not just keep her legs closed.  It is about what that judge who is hearing that case believes deep down even though they are supposed to be impartial.  It may be that they just eventually agree to joint custody. 

 Since he was not just a boyfriend and the nanny when they started the relationship, it goes towards the pattern that the father will try to show of her making inappropriate choices and that her sexual relationships  and decision making could impact the child, including the environment around them and what and who they are exposed to. 

If a court starts asking them to list their stable long term relationships and he has a 20 year marriage (and I have learned a wife willing to stay home with the child) and a current wife, that is going to weigh heavily when the judge has to consider (since she put it out there) that Karen not only slept with a father and son in violation of her professional ethics because one was a patient, but recklessly picked up unknown men for sex.  She even got pregnant in their relationship, which was not planned. 

 Nothing has been shown that Karen has had one stable relationship and her character witnesses have issues of their own. All of this goes to the safety of the child and questions whether she puts the welfare of the child above her self interests if she is sleeping with the nanny (while he is still employed)  while he is on duty, not after hours.   Since she has also slept with women, so  even if she said she would get a female nanny they would have to ask if her faulty decision making would not allow her to pursue a sexual relationship with whomever is caring for the child. It really is not about the sex, it is about making good decisions and who can argue that it is unwise to get involved with people who work for you, or worked for you.  

It is however, a fictional tv show  and not one that I have enjoyed for some time so I am not that invested in what happens. I am sure Karen won't lose custody and they will unearth something terrible, hilarious or shocking about the new wife.  This show is not deep enough to examine what would happen to a mother if her child were taken away, and the actress who plays the role is not strong enough to carry it anyway.  Based upon what everyone is writing, I expect this is the last season.  I just have some perverse desire to know what happens at the bitter end.  Probably because I enjoyed the British original so much.  It was nothing special, but it was not this bad!  You at least liked some of the women, and occasionally their partners.   

[Black Knight]

I actually was surprised this episode at who Taco Guy turned out to be, because going into the ep I had figured it would be Jonathan, the only man currently around that is both married and has ties to Harry and Joss. But when they did the sex scene between Kate and him, I was all, "That's not Jonathan's skin color, Jonathan's not that tall..." and then it hit me right before his face was shown that it must be Scott. How they met ends up not being that implausible as a result: It must be that Scott had introduced Joss to the taco truck when they were together, and then Joss told Kate about it.

Alec has always been an ass to some degree, but he is really one now - probably because moderating influence Vivian is gone. Alec's new wife seems like someone who reinforces his worse instincts (like springing the marriage on Karen), unlike Vivian who would call him out on stuff. I agree with the poster above who said that Vivian was always the one who cared more for Karen anyway. That said, I did think Alec had half a point about Karen's book being exploitive - I know she changed the names, but if Alec's involved as the father then it's not at all hard for people to figure out the real identities. It would be more interesting if Alec's real motives turned out to be anger over his life/marriage being written about without his consent and jealousy because Karen was the one who shared Vivian's last moment with her (Alec was in the room, but sleeping in a chair as I recall). The case in itself is stupid since neither of them are unfit. The only barrier for either of them is that since Alec hasn't been around up to now, Karen and her lawyer would most likely be granted a request that Alec be gradually eased into baby Vivian's life, working up to an equal split of time, rather than just being given 50/50 right off the bat.

Please, please, would April and Marc just break up already.

[KaveDweller]

I think in real life Karen and Alec would get shared custody, right? That seems like the reasonable approach, and I think if he had went to Karen asking for that kind of arrangement she wouldn't have fought it. She wouldn't have liked it, but she would have agreed. If I was a judge that's probably what I'd want to see.

It's just so crappy of Alec to call her unfit, when he didn't have a problem taking off on the baby with absolutely no contact before she was even born. I think the wife is pushing for it.

[Free]

9 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

I think in real life Karen and Alec would get shared custody, right? That seems like the reasonable approach, and I think if he had went to Karen asking for that kind of arrangement she wouldn't have fought it. She wouldn't have liked it, but she would have agreed. If I was a judge that's probably what I'd want to see.

It's just so crappy of Alec to call her unfit, when he didn't have a problem taking off on the baby with absolutely no contact before she was even born. I think the wife is pushing for it.

It's contrived drama especially since he was the one who took off to begin with.

[ottoDbusdriver]

Since there isn't a separate "Cast in Other Roles' thread, Starz released the trailer for Neil Gaiman's American Gods on Friday -- I bet Ricky Whittle is so glad he got away from this show.

[formerlyfreedom]

Alec threatens for full custody of Vivian, sending Karen into a panic. April and Marc find a condom in Lucy’s jacket, forcing April to give “the talk.” Kate doesn’t tell Joss and Harry about her new boyfriend, as it could have serious repercussions. Joss’ actions put Jonathan’s nephew in the hospital and later causes tension in her and Harry’s relationship.

[ottoDbusdriver]

Are they moving this show again ?  This 4th season first it was on Thursday nights, then Monday nights and now Tuesday nights.

Bouncing all over the schedule, and add in the fact that it will have been off the air for 3 weeks -- in the summer, no less -- that's pretty much the final nail in the coffin for this show.

I can't wait for April to give Lucy "the talk" -- it will likely consist of little more than really bad euphemisms for banging, a lot of yelling, and probably accompanied with flashcards/shitty art (after all, April is a failed shitty artist).  Because April is just that stupid.

Really ?  Joss' actions might actually have consequences -- unbelievable !!

[ByTor]

Just my opinion, but I think it's ridiculous that Savi wasn't recast.  I mean, we're talking Alyssa Milano, not Meryl Streep, I'm sure a recast would be accepted.

[ByTor]

If anyone wanted to question Karen's decision making skills, all they'd have to do is point out that new haircut :)

[ribboninthesky1]

I don't get it either.  Better to recast Savi than the revolving door of women we've been getting. But then, even when Milano was on the show, I think TPTB always missed a crucial aspect from the original series - the main cast members were believable as friends.  Milano didn't seem to click with anyone, and neither did Macallan. I watched the original British series, which was always plot-ridiculous, so I didn't expect the American version to be any more sane.  Thus, the cast is what carries the show - watching them interact.  Miscasting on this show has been an issue from the jump. I've skipped the last two episodes, since I found myself fast-forwarding more vs watching.  I just don't care about the Australians, Joss, or the bum known as Mark, which combined feels like 80% of the show.  

[Free]

On 7/25/2016 at 10:30 PM, ottoDbusdriver said:

Are they moving this show again ?  This 4th season first it was on Thursday nights, then Monday nights and now Tuesday nights.

Bouncing all over the schedule, and add in the fact that it will have been off the air for 3 weeks -- in the summer, no less -- that's pretty much the final nail in the coffin for this show.

I can't wait for April to give Lucy "the talk" -- it will likely consist of little more than really bad euphemisms for banging, a lot of yelling, and probably accompanied with flashcards/shitty art (after all, April is a failed shitty artist).  Because April is just that stupid.

Really ?  Joss' actions might actually have consequences -- unbelievable !!

The moves are really weird, I think it's because of the Bachelorette finale this time.

As for Joss, it sounds like just more drama mining.

[formerlyfreedom]

April's mom pays her a visit, which stirs up trouble; Karen is unsure about her new nanny; Harry struggles with fame; Joss discovers her ex-fiancee is dating Kate.

[KaveDweller]

What was the point of having a custody battle if it was going to be resolved in less than one episode?

This show is ridiculous.

[Free]

1 hour ago, KaveDweller said:

What was the point of having a custody battle if it was going to be resolved in less than one episode?

This show is ridiculous.

Pointless contrived drama.

[ottoDbusdriver]

And we are back after 3 LOOONG weeks off to Harry meeting with creepy billionaire Jonathon and confronting him about the incident in Vegas between Joss and his nephew Reza.  Of course, Joss didn't tell him about, as she has the PTSD and doesn't want to talk about it.  Harry has no idea what Jonathon is talking about.  Or that Joss put Reza in the hospital since she was "out of control".

And Jonathon pulls the old Harry-control-your-fiancé-or-there-will-be consequences card.  Because employees shouldn't be beating up the restaurant owner's nephew.  Remember ?  Joss was doing PR for Harry's restaurant ? Don't worry, no one else remembered either.

April is folding the clean laundry, and a condom (that someone managed not to fall out during the wash cycle) falls out of the Lucy's jacket pocket.  Oh noooessss !!!  Here's the stupid thing -- the condom came out of the sleeve of Lucy's jacket.  WTF ?  Who keeps condoms in the sleeve ?

And April does the completely logical thing -- she decides to sit Lucy down and have an calm, intelligent conversation about teenage sex.  I'm kdding, April loses it, decides that she wants to go pull Lucy out of school so she can lay a beatdown on her.  Seriously, that's her reaction.  And Mark is the reasonable person in this house.  April is such a shitty parent, and for good measure she tosses the condom at Mark like it has cooties after Mark suggests inviting Noel over for dinner Mark's sexdar can determine if they have been banging.

Karen is meeting with ...... Dominic ..... the lawyer from Savi's law firm at her house to discuss the coming custody hearing meeting in the afternoon.  Is Karen going to bang Dom too ?

Kate meets Joss over breakfast in the kitchen and mopes about her ex-fiancé having a much better time than her, and then decides to ask Joss about her ex-fianceé Scott.  Do we know if Joss or Harry ever mentioned Scott's name before ?  As Kate innocently probes for details Joss does tell her about Shoeguy's fetish.  

Harry comes home and needs to talk to Joss -- Joss has this look on her face like the gig is up. And she tells him all about the fight in the Vegas hotel hallway, and that the bruises on her hands were from that fight. And that she didn't stop going to impact class.  Lies !! All lies !!! Harry is aghast about what Joss hasn't lied about, but Joss lays some guilt trip on Harry about telling Jonathon "the truth".  At least Joss' version of the "the truth".

Karen and her babydaddy, Alec, argue in the pre-trial hearing and there's no settlement in sight.  Alex pulls out the threat of voicemails from a 12-week pregnant Karen calling Alex in Costa Rica about getting an abortion -- so she is obviously a bad mother -- and they want to sue for full custody.  How has Karen not banged Dom by now ?  And what is with Karen's eyebrows -- too much botox I guess as she always looks surprised ?

Kate is working at April's store and for some stupid reason just has to tell April that she is banging Joss' ex-fiancé.  Hold a minute -- Shoeguy's name is Scott Trosman.  That means if Joss had gotten married she would be Joss Trosman.  That is too funny -- maybe that's why she ditched him, and not the pressure of an engagement party turned surprise wedding.  Kate just has to tell her in order to determine how mad Joss and Harry would be at her.

After April raises her level of disdain, Kate says "aren't you the one dating your dead husband's mistresses' brother".  Nice burn Kate !!  But Kate is in love with Shoeguy, and hasn't felt this way since she met her ex-fiancé.  Didn't Kate also say that about the first guy she dated when she got to LA ?

Karen confronts Alex after the hearing, accusing him of taking advantage of her during a moment of vulnerability.  Karen counters that Alec is hurt that he had to share the last year of dead Vivian's life Karen and is not taking it out on baby Vivian (man this is confusing).  And Karen does the "I will see you in court" and leaves.

Kate, Joss and April are enjoying coffee at April's store as Joss fills them in on the rhubarb she got into with Jonathon's nephew and how she lied about a few things.  Kate takes this as a cue that it's ok to lie and April tries to reel her in.  As Kate wanders back to do some actual work, April finally does something smart and asks Joss what she would have done if Harry had lied to her.  We know that would turn out -- Joss would jump to conclusions, be all high and mighty about how she doesn't lie (despite the fact she works for a PR firm), and be completely outraged at Harry.

Karen get home and the nanny tells her that an investigator from Alec's law firm came by asking questions.

April recovers from her moment of wisdom with Joss and demands that Lucy invite Noel over for dinner -- and it's mandatory.   But Noel is gluten-free and has a peanut allergy, so she will have to change the menu.

Harry tries to explain Joss' side of the story and Jonathon seems to be A-Ok with his nephew beating his girlfriend.  Joanthon thinks Joss and Reza should hash it out on their own -- that ain't a good idea -- and Jonathon is worried about bad press from a criminal case.  Joss has been to jail accused of murder, she should be used to it by now.  But Jonathon wants Joss to apologize or Reza will press charges.

And we are back to April's house for what will be the most awkward dinner ever.  And Mark learns so much from Noel, because Mark thinks Ayn Rand's 'The Fountainhead' is the bees' knees -- just wait until this kid gets to Atlas Shrugged and Mark will be out looking for John Galt.  Mark turns out to be a big fan of the DaVinci code.  Mark's teenage sexdar consists of really obvious questions posed to Noel -- seriously, Mark is fucking bad at this.

Harry comes home, has a beer and explains to Joss what she has to do to avoid criminal charges Joss apologizes to Harry that she lied.  Joss is getting pretty good at apologizing she should have no problem doing it to Reza. Harry tells Joss about the possible pressing of charges and big surprise Joss gets all defensive and accuses Harry of not defending her and supporting her.  Wow !! Joss really has no idea that you can't go around beating people up and have no consequences (bet her Impact class teacher didn't teach that) -- if this was a stranger Joss wouldn't even have the option of apologizing.  Did she ever think of that ? Nope.

After Mark checks in on Lucy, Mark and April play the how many people have you slept with game -- I wonder if the Rule of 3 applies, because April says she has only slept with 5 guys (including Mark).

Cut to Shoeguy, correction, make that Dr. Shoeguy entering an exam room to find Kate with a fancy pair of high heels on.  And of course Shoeguy can't stop look at her shoes, completing ignoring her low cut dress.  Seriously, women's shoes are like catnip for this guy.  And they start making out in the exam room set to the sounds of "will you do me now" as background music.

Karen holds baby Vivian and discusses the results of the investigation on Alec with Dom.  Karen suggests to look into Alec's very new bride but apparently she's clean, and then Karen suggests a hypothetical idea to Dom -- which is obviously a huge lie.  As Dom tries to talk Karen down, she threatens to find a better lawyer.

After Kate gets dressed from banging Shoeguy, they discuss dinner plans -- but where either of them aware that they were completely visible via the blinds to the office one floor above them -- it would be funny if someone posted that online and Joss saw it before knowing about Kate and Shoeguy.  Kate tries to con Shoeguy into believing that Kate can get Harry and Joss' blessing to their relationship, then he is definitely in for a relationship.

And we are off to Harry and Mark playing some hoops as they discuss what Joss has to do -- are they playing on the street ?  Because it certainly looks like it.  So who's house are the playing in front of ?  Joss/Harry's house or Mark/April's house -- or is this just some random house they are playing in front of.

April decides to have "the talk" with Lucy finally.  And she asks about the condom which Lucy says they got in health class -- which doesn't explain how it survived in the sleeve of her jacket after going through the washer and dryer.  How did it not get melted in the dryer ?  April tries to be rational about Lucy making her decisions and such, but Lucy basically plays along to get her to shut up about it.

Back to Karen's apartment where Karen returns home to find the baby crying, and despite an obviously lying thermometer the baby feels warm and they are off to the ER.

Joss goes to Jonathon's office to apologize to Reza and says "I'm sorry" and that's it.  Reza can't believe that is the extent of her apology, he wants her to beg for his forgiveness but Joss is having none of it, accuses Jonathon buying into the wrong side, and basically begs him to press charges.

Vivian goes to the ER sans nanny -- why wouldn't the nanny go with her ?  Is she parking the car ?  After Karen complains about the wait, the ER tells Karen that there are patients that are worse off that takes precedence.  But Karen starts to freak out on the nurse because she is a doctor (ahem ... a psychologist, not a pediatrician) and she knows that her baby is basically knocking on death's door. FFS !  Doctors really are the worst patients.  So Karen takes baby Vivian to Alec's house for no apparent reason other than she had nowhere else to go.  Man, Karen is stupid.  Really, really stupid.

Karen hands of baby Vivian to Alec's pediatrician wife -- she's never going to see that kid again.

As we cut to Harry and Joss' house, we see Harry reading 'Malibu Farm Cookbook: Recipes from the California Coast' -- I thought Harry was supposed to be this super-awesome uber-creative chef, and he's reading cookbooks and taking notes.  I particularly like how the notepad went from lying on the bed to being held in Harry's hands between edits as Joss enters the bedroom.  I guess they decided to stop paying the continuity guy at this point in the production schedule.  Joss explains how the meeting went, and it FINALLY clicks in Joss' head that she is jeopardizing Harry's current career path AND their relationship if she goes to jail.

Harry wonders where all this rage is coming from -- it's the PTSD Harry, haven't you been paying attention that Joss never wants to talk about her feelings.

Karen hands off baby Vivian to Faith once again to administer some antibiotics -- seriously, Karen, you should not be letting that kid out of your sight.  Alec tells Karen how impressed he is with her parenting decisions and about how he was all caught up in the moment, but you know he is just buttering her up as Faith steals the baby.  But Alec confesses he did blame Karen for Vivian's death and now wants to be a part of baby Vivan's life.  Faith comes back and all of baby Vivian's symptoms are gone -- except antibiotics just don't work that fast.  I'm just surprised Faith didn't switch babies with the spare she was probably keepgin in the closet just in case Karen dropped by.

Harry is taking in the morning and when Kate, who seems a little too dressed up for this early in the morning (maybe she was just getting home), decides to try to break it to Harry she is dating Shoeguy, but they end up talking about love and dreams and other such nonsense and Kate comes to some conclusion about something -- who knows for sure.

As Karen is putting away even more laundry, she finds Lucy crying in her bedroom -- because Noel pasted a selfie with some girl named Tanya, so obviously Noel likes her more than Lucy.  Fucking millennials overreacting over a social media post.  And April tries to convince Lucy that not all boys lie but she just needs to be careful and hope for the best.

Mark is playing piano to Sophia, and they talk about their past relationship -- and Sophia starts coming on to him.  Come on, they banged.  Did you see Sophia ?  She's ridiculously hot, and for some reason, into Mark.

Mark comes home to April's house and they discuss the events of the sex talk and about how she trusts him -- boy, is April in for a surprise.  Because, as the theme of this episode goes, everyone lies -- but mostly boys.

Kate visits Shoeguy in his office in another exam room and lies about telling Joss and Harry about their relationship, make dinner plans and then they bang again in the exam room.

Dom swings by Karen's apartment to drop off a list of slightly less-ethical lawyers than himself who will work with Karen in her custody hearing.  But Karen says she won't need them as she has settled things with Alex.  I think Karen is jumping the gun and may want to get everything in writing first.  And she still hasn't banged Dom yet, but it turns out Dom is recently married (8 months).

Harry drops by the Impact class studio to see Joss kicking the crap out of some heavy bags.  Joss thinks that Harry just doesn't understand her (he's not alone, none of the viewers do either), and Harry tells her that Reza isn't pressing charges .... for now.  And yet again, Joss still doesn't want to talk about what happened after Harry suggests seeing a therapist.  Well, a competent one for starters, and definitely not Karen.

Mark and April are drinking coffees after leaving the restaurant as Mark suggests they go for ice cream when April's phone rings where she learns that Lucy has been in a car crash.  Hmmm, let me guess, Lucy tried to run down this Tanya girl with her mother's car to eliminate her competition with Noel.

[ByTor]

15 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

 Kate tries to con Shoeguy into believing that Kate can get Harry and Joss' blessing to their relationship, then he is definitely in for a relationship.

Being that Harry & Joss are former brother/sister in law, those two better not dare say a peep about Kate & Dr. Shoeguy!

[luckyroll3]

When Joss cussed out Jonathon and Reza was the only time I enjoyed her PTSD storyline.

[Free]

On 8/4/2016 at 2:14 PM, ByTor said:

Being that Harry & Joss are former brother/sister in law, those two better not dare say a peep about Kate & Dr. Shoeguy!

That's what makes it so ridiculous.

 

On 8/4/2016 at 8:11 PM, luckyroll3 said:

When Joss cussed out Jonathon and Reza was the only time I enjoyed her PTSD storyline.

My problem is how inconsistent it is, it's only plot convenient when it affects Joss, otherwise she acts perfectly fine in other scenes.