S01.E01: Pilot

[ParadoxLost]

Quote

Once Upon a Time…There was an enchanted forest with all the classic characters we know.  Or think we know.  One day they found themselves trapped in a place where all their happy endings were stolen. Our world.  This is how it happened…

They really should have kept this up for the previous lies (ha ha…spell check you know how to correct my bad grammar in a truly fitting way for this show).  It really captured the mood of a story book.

Actually, the transition from Henry reading the book to the fairy tales works better than just cutting away to flashbacks too.

The first fairy tale sequence was so well done. One thing I found interesting, using a critical eye, is that Ginnifer seemed miles better at projecting an almost ethereal fantastical fairy tale mood than anyone else.  Dallas was next closest but helped perhaps by his costuming and actions and less by his acting.  The dwarves felt like they were a little out of synch with Ginnifer’s Snow White.  More Disney cartoonish, maybe.  Lana wasn’t bad in her first appearance as Evil Queen but it was a little more muahahaha and less sinister.  The way Ginnifer was playing Snow White, it seemed a bit like they were in different adaptations of Snow White.

Ah come on Charming.  If you are going to throw a sword at Evil Queen’s back don’t give her a heads up.  Giving her a warning and not getting her in the back doesn’t mean it’s somehow more honorable it just means its less effective.

OK, so the first time around, I had never seen a character that JMo played that I liked.  In fact, I actively disliked every character I had ever seen her play.  She’s actually a very good actress. She is giving subtle cues like being uncomfortable in heels and limping slightly from her first moment on screen.  I’m gobsmacked that there used to be this much attention to detail happening (or maybe the shoes just hurt). 

I still love the sequence where the guy tries to escape the horror movie killer Emma who just determinedly walks after him to reveal that she had booted his car so he couldn’t get away.

I never caught that Emma was wishing on a star before.

What was written on Emma’s door?  That would have driven me batshit looking for clues if it had happened after the pilot and before I learned this show wasn’t that deep.

I found Emma’s and Henry’s car ride to Storybrooke interesting.  There was a definite feeling at one point that Emma wasn’t just saying that her super power for telling that someone was lying was that she was good at seeing signs of deception.  She reacted like she knew with certainty that Henry wasn’t lying and had never been wrong in a way that spoke to it not being “normal”.

Rumple and Snow White are definitely in the same adaptation of this fairy tale and they are playing at the same level and are miles above everyone else in the flashbacks.

“Forty Four Not Telling You Street”  Point for Henry.  This episode isn’t when I started wanting to drop you in a well of forgetfulness never to be heard from again.

The Blue Fairy’s costume is …ahem…bountiful.

Lana is much more effectively scary as Regina.  I prefer that to the campiness of the Evil Queen.  She was also much more effective in the final confrontation before the curse than in the opening.  So I take back some of what I’ve said about not being on Ginnifer’s level.

“The wardrobe only takes one.”  Snow can go through while pregnant.  After going through they can only send Emma and neither parent can go with her.  How did Pinocchio go through again?  I don’t remember and I missed it. Or maybe it wasn't this episode?  At some point my memory is going to get me in trouble with the spoiler everything that happens after the episode thread you are in.  My memory is about as reliable on the timelines events occur in the show as the timelines in the show.

The fight between Charming, with Emma in his arm, and the Black Knights was great.

OK, Snow kissing Charming twice as he lay bleeding / dead and being shaken that true love’s kiss wasn’t working as it had when he’d woken her was an effective little beat.

So at the end, I take it we are supposed to conclude that Emma stayed because her superpower told her that Regina was lying about loving Henry.

The clock started when Emma decided to stay.  I wonder if time would have refrozen if Emma left again.  That isn’t a spoiler.  I seriously can’t remember if that scenario ever occurred.

So final verdict:  I wanted to find out during the rewatch if all the good things about this show were viewer hopes about how great it should have been.  At a minimum, the pilot proves that there was a time that they did subtle and attention to detail.  Who would have thunk it?

Edited June 2, 2018 by ParadoxLost

[profdanglais]

I haven't rewatched this episode in a long time, but seeing it now really reminds me of what drew me into the show in the first place. I find it very well done, with little things like Mary Margaret with the bird, and the cobwebs on Granny's desk, the slightly eerie feeling of Storybrooke, plus everyone looked so gorgeous. 

 

Poor Charming, though. That fight with the Black Knights was his finest moment, and then he was supposed to die afterwards. 

Some spoilery things: 

 

Spoiler

I can't help noticing that there was no "heroes don't kill" nonsense when Charming was stabbing up the Black Knights. 

Snow's hair in this ep is SO MUCH BETTER than her EF bird's nest hair in later flashbacks. WHY couldn't they have kept her curly princess wig? 

Robert Carlyle is much subtler here than he was by the end. I think part of my re-watch will be dedicated to pinpointing the exact moment when he stopped giving a damn. 

[ParadoxLost]

2 minutes ago, profdanglais said:

Some spoilery things: 

 

  Hide contents

Robert Carlyle is much subtler here than he was by the end. I think part of my re-watch will be dedicated to pinpointing the exact moment when he stopped giving a damn. 

Spoiler

I'm going to chart the sparkle level of the glitter paint.  There may be a correlation.

[Rumsy4]

Spoiler

Knowing how much Snow and Charming failed as rules definitely affects the rewatch. If they had acted like responsible rulers and not like self-centered and naive idealists, the Evil Queen wouldn't have been free to cast the Dark Curse in the first place.

The clock starting to tick is when time unfroze in the Enchanted Forest as well. Mulan and Philip team up to search for Aurora. Hook and Cora infiltrate the EF survivors' camp as blacksmith and fake!Lancelot. Btw, we never found how Lancelot survived his encounter with Cora. 

I know my whole post is a spoiler tag, but it's pretty much impossible to not discuss later events. 

[profdanglais]

Spoiler

@Rumsy4 I am a huuuge Captain Swan shipper, but I have to admit, thinking too hard about the fact that when Emma was born Hook was with Cora looking pretty much exactly as he did when he and Emma met is a bit... uncomfortable. 

It is going to be tricky to keep the spoilers out of the discussion. 

Edited June 2, 2018 by profdanglais

[Camera One]

This is the only episode I've watched more than twice all the way through.  I think this was my fifth time watching the pilot?  

I'm glad that I was mostly able to compartmentalize my mind.  I didn't think too much of later events/retcons or let them color my feelings towards this episode or the characters.  The moments that have always moved me still moved me.  I think the performances were all spot-on... I felt a connection with each of the heroes - Emma, Snow, Charming and Henry, and I thought both villains - Regina and Rumple - were very deliciously evil.

 and the sense of wonder and intrigue that the episode first elicited was still there.  I'm excited to watch the next episode and the show, even though I know full well what a disappointment it would become.

Emma was really strong in that first scene at the restaurant, but she was actually very vulnerable and looked very innocent/naive in two of the scenes with Regina - the first when they first met and she sheepishly said Hi, and then near the end when she told Regina it was her birthday.  

If anything, this episode reminded me how much the Curse hurt Snow and Charming and how traumatizing the entire event was for them.  

Given our recent conversation about hope, in the flashbacks, it was Charming who was the hopeful one, with lines like "Good can't just lose" and "They're only words.  She can't hurt us."  In the present-day, Mary Margaret did refer to stories bringing hope and "believing in the possibility of a happy ending is a very powerful thing."  

I have further comments that include spoilers so I'm just going to post in All Seasons instead of using spoiler tag boxes here.

[CheshireCat]

1 hour ago, ParadoxLost said:

 

So at the end, I take it we are supposed to conclude that Emma stayed because her superpower told her that Regina was lying about loving Henry.

 

I wondered about that during my most recent re-watch, too. I actually never questioned that Regina was telling the truth in that moment and that did love Henry but maybe my judgement was clouded. My aunt and uncle lost their adopted child when the birth mother reclaimed her shortly before the 6 weeks were up. She was their third but it was devastating, so I never questioned that Regina saw Emma as a threat as Henry's birth mother. I don't know if the intent was that Regina saw Emma's ability to break the curse as a bigger threat than the threat she posed to Henry but the way they wrote and acted it, Regina's fear that Emma might take Henry was certainly very convincing and very real. (As was her reaction when Emma brought Henry back which also played a role in me believing that Regina truly loved Henry)

Edited June 2, 2018 by CheshireCat

[Camera One]

Emma needed a reason to stay, so I assumed Emma felt Regina wasn't telling the full truth when she said that she loved Henry.  There seemed to be little else for the whole superpower if not for this climatic moment of realization.  When Emma brought Henry back at the start of the episode, Regina did look extremely distraught like a truly worried mother.  But maybe Regina wasn't fully capable of true love and Emma could sense that.  At this point, Regina was still putting her needs and wants, including her vendetta against Snow, over Henry.

In the pilot, did Regina know that Emma was Snowing's child?  

[KingOfHearts]

2 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

OK, Snow kissing Charming twice as he lay bleeding / dead and being shaken that true love’s kiss wasn’t working as it had when he’d woken her was an effective little beat.

Spoiler

Yet somehow it worked when he was dying in the S6 finale. Yeah, okay.

 

31 minutes ago, Camera One said:

In the pilot, did Regina know that Emma was Snowing's child?  

Spoiler

No, because Henry took out the pages to make sure she didn't. Her suspicions heighten during her conversation with Gold at the end of 1x02, but I don't think they come to full fruition until later in the season. Someone needs to jog my memory. I know she knows by 1x21, when she bakes the turnover. Was it during one of her conversations with Gold after he confesses to remembering?

[ParadoxLost]

44 minutes ago, Camera One said:

In the pilot, did Regina know that Emma was Snowing's child?  

I don't remember.  But I think that she doesn't just because the scene where Regina confronts Mary Margaret about Henry's whereabouts with Emma in tow would have gone differently if she did know.

[CCTC]

1 hour ago, Camera One said:

If anything, this episode reminded me how much the Curse hurt Snow and Charming and how traumatizing the entire event was for them.  

The scene of Snow knowing she had to send her baby a way was pretty powerful with the follow-up of her still weak from child birth finding Charming dying or dead and unable to revive him added to show a true tragedy and loss 

Spoiler

 - you did not see that kind of raw emotion or see the depth of the consequences of the evil in later seasons.  They also were fortunate that Goodwin and Dallas had a good connection.  You bought that they had a great love and bond and could feel their loss - more so than Henry and Ella in season 7.

Edited June 2, 2018 by CCTC

[Rumsy4]

56 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Emma needed a reason to stay, so I assumed Emma felt Regina wasn't telling the full truth when she said that she loved Henry.  There seemed to be little else for the whole superpower if not for this climatic moment of realization.  

Exactly. That was the why the lie-detector thing was set-up earlier in the episode (this was when chekhov's arsenal had not yet started piling up). Even if Emma didn't buy the whole fairy tale thing, Henry had just told her that his life was miserable, Regina's behaviour to not just Emma, but also Mary Margaret, did nothing to convince her otherwise.

21 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

56 minutes ago, Camera One said:

In the pilot, did Regina know that Emma was Snowing's child?  

  Hide contents

No, because Henry took out the pages to make sure she didn't. Her suspicions heighten during her conversation with Gold at the end of 1x02, but I don't think they come to full fruition until later in the season. Someone needs to jog my memory. I know she knows by 1x21, when she bakes the turnover. Was it during one of her conversations with Gold after he confesses to remembering?

Spoiler

She suspected it when she adopted Henry, and almost returned him when she did, but took the potion to forget it so she wouldn't be prejudiced against Henry. Or some nonsense like that.

Edited June 2, 2018 by Rumsy4

[KAOS Agent]

I don't think the writers had yet taken to Twitter to explain whatever ideas that the audience was unclear about, but there were interviews where they stated that Emma's superpower had gone off and she knew Regina was lying about loving Henry, which is why she stayed.  Whatever may have come later, this episode was about how the Evil Queen had adopted Emma's son and he was so desperate and unhappy that he went in search of her to save him and everyone else.

One thing I always appreciated about the Emma/Henry relationship particularly in this episode is that there was not some immediate fairy tale insta-bond between the two that resulted in hugs and kisses and I love yous. Henry was not out looking for a mother. He was looking for the Saviour.  He was manipulative as hell, but his feelings of being unloved and unhappy were real. It's just that his fantasy of improving his life by finding his birth mother was actually a real thing because Regina truly was the Evil Queen and everyone in town was cursed and Emma was the Saviour come to rescue them all.

Watching Snow White sob in agony over losing her newborn baby and seeing that the baby was now all grown up having never known the love of a parent all because of Regina does not in any way allow me to feel sympathy towards her worries about losing Henry. She tore one family apart with her evil, too bad she blew a perfectly good opportunity to foster a happy, healthy relationship with her son and it resulted in him trying to reunite that family.

[andromeda331]

This is one of my favorite pilots. I've watched it so many times.  Its always funny to me because I never planned on watching the show. One night there was nothing else on so I turned it in and got sucked in. Henry reading his book on the bus, Emma's date turning out to be her catching a bail jumper. I love how she's not even bothered by him flipping the table and running off just more of a 'really?'.  Then strolls after him having already put a boot on his car.   Her reaction to Henry showing up at her apartment and their road trip. Her reaction to the town, Archie, and Regina. I do like how in the beginning all she was interested in was dropping off.  Henry got to me when he told Emma that Regina didn't love him she only pretends too. Her meeting Mary Margaret. There were so many scenes that worked well.  Regina did a better a job of being more subtle and trying to say all the right things to get Emma to leave.  I have a hard time listening to her rant later towards the end at Emma considering all the crap we later learn of what she did.  But I always liked how Emma asked after all that if Regina loved Henry and how Regina seemed thrown by that question. The flashbacks worked much better. Seeing Charming racing to Snow and the iconic scene of finding her dead and waking her with a kiss. Snow did seem to give up easily which is surprising but given what we learn all Regina put her through not surprising. But those weren't the scenes that connected me to Snow. Later when she realizes she has to send her baby away, that got me. Her crying as Charming takes her baby away and her going to find him later dying or dead. I loved Charming battling the Black Nights to get his daughter to safety. There were so many good scenes.  Snow realizing Emma got away and telling Regina she was going to lose.  The scenery was really good from gloomy Storybrook, to Enchanted Forest, the castle, Regina's mansion and Emma's apartment. 

[Rumsy4]

2 hours ago, KAOS Agent said:

One thing I always appreciated about the Emma/Henry relationship particularly in this episode is that there was not some immediate fairy tale insta-bond between the two that resulted in hugs and kisses and I love yous. Henry was not out looking for a mother. He was looking for the Saviour.  He was manipulative as hell, but his feelings of being unloved and unhappy were real. It's just that his fantasy of improving his life by finding his birth mother was actually a real thing because Regina truly was the Evil Queen and everyone in town was cursed and Emma was the Saviour come to rescue them all.

The pilot does a great job in mixing the fairytale aspects of the show with real world stuff. I really like it that they didn’t go overboard by making the real world stuff sordid. Emma was shown as a tough go-getter, but also as someone who had a lonely life and had a core of softness that Henry was able to reach, considering everything.

I also noticed that Regina’s veneer of concerned parent started slipping once she realized Mary Margaret had something to do with it. That’s when Emma started wondering whether Henry could be right about his unhappiness with his home life.

This never struck me before, but why did the sheriff put an unconscious woman who had been in a car accident in jail instead of taking her to the emergency?

Edited June 2, 2018 by Rumsy4

[ParadoxLost]

1 hour ago, Rumsy4 said:

 

This never struck me before, but why did the sheriff put an unconscious woman who had been in a car accident in jail instead of taking her to the emergency?

I almost commented on that but then he started talking like Emma had too much to drink or couldn't handle the strength of what she drank at Regina's.

I'm assuming Graham called Regina at the accident site and she told him to take her to jail for dui.

I can't remember what the actual deal with that wolf was.  But if it's related to Graham then it's Graham wanting to keep Emma in his custody.

My memory is so bad for these details.  It's going to be like watching for the first time.  I'm going to be so disappointed when the show starts sucking.

[Rumsy4]

2 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

I'm assuming Graham called Regina at the accident site and she told him to take her to jail for dui.

Regina seemed surprised to see Emma again. That's why I wondered whether she knew about Emma's accident or not.

Spoiler

After all, she could've easily ordered Graham to kill her as she did Owen's father.

[Camera One]

2 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

Regina seemed surprised to see Emma again. That's why I wondered whether she knew about Emma's accident or not.

Regina was definitely surprised, so I don't think she knew.  I agree it was weird how Graham ended up taking her to a jail cell.  I suppose he could have taken her to the hospital first, but Emma didn't wake up all that time?  

[KingOfHearts]

9 hours ago, KAOS Agent said:

I don't think the writers had yet taken to Twitter to explain whatever ideas that the audience was unclear about, but there were interviews where they stated that Emma's superpower had gone off and she knew Regina was lying about loving Henry, which is why she stayed

I never thought about it like this before. I'm hoping during this rewatch to pick up others things I didn't notice.

1 hour ago, Camera One said:

Regina was definitely surprised, so I don't think she knew.  I agree it was weird how Graham ended up taking her to a jail cell.  I suppose he could have taken her to the hospital first, but Emma didn't wake up all that time?  

I can kind of give it a pass since this is Storybrooke and nothing is exactly normal there. Have we ever seen their law enforcement handle anything properly? Like ever?

[legaleagle53]

17 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

“The wardrobe only takes one.”  Snow can go through while pregnant.  After going through they can only send Emma and neither parent can go with her.  How did Pinocchio go through again?  I don’t remember and I missed it. Or maybe it wasn't this episode?  At some point my memory is going to get me in trouble with the spoiler everything that happens after the episode thread you are in.  My memory is about as reliable on the timelines events occur in the show as the timelines in the show.

Spoiler

Blue and Geppetto were lying about the wardrobe only being able to take one passenger. It could actually take two, but Geppetto wanted to save Pinocchio, so he convinced Blue to lie to Snow and David about the wardrobe's travel capacity so that Pinocchio could take the second slot instead of Snow (as had been the original plan).

[Camera One]

1 hour ago, legaleagle53 said:

  Reveal hidden contents

Blue and Geppetto were lying about the wardrobe only being able to take one passenger. It could actually take two, but Geppetto wanted to save Pinocchio, so he convinced Blue to lie to Snow and David about the wardrobe's travel capacity so that Pinocchio could take the second slot instead of Snow (as had been the original plan).

Spoiler

I thought until Snow gave birth, Snow + Unborn Baby counted as one.  But Snow went into labor before the wardrobe was finished, so Emma had to go alone.  If Snowing had known there were two slots, Pregnant Snow and Charming would have gone together.

[companionenvy]

Would it be better for us to start new threads for the rewatch? Since some of the point of a rewatch is to see how earlier episodes look in retrospect, it seems silly to have to spoiler-tag everything.

I don't have a ton to add, so I'll stick to a few scattered thoughts I had while watching...

-Mary Margaret's students giving her pears rather than apples is a lovely touch.

- RC's acting just after he hears Emma's name is terrific - you can see, I think, the moment where Gold remembers. 

- It is really telling that Emma's first reaction to Henry is "I don't have a son." You'd think someone who obviously knows she gave a son up for adoption ten years ago would immediately put two and two together when a ten year old boy comes to her door saying she's his mother, but Emma is so closed off that she won't even entertain the possibility until he pushes it.

- I had forgotten how awesome LP is as a villain who is allowed to be a villain. The EQ is a bit campy for my taste, but I love S1 Regina. 

- The reality of Storybrooke doesn't quite jive with the "I will take away your happiness/send you to a terrible place" shtick. Like, its a small town in Maine. People are all stuck in a rut, but at worst they seem mildly discontented, not miserable. 

- 

Spoiler

We're clearly supposed to believe Emma's instinct that Regina is lying when she says she loves Henry, so I can only look at later developments in light of a retcon. What I never quite understood, though, is if Regina is supposed to not love Henry as of S1, then what was her angle in adopting him originally supposed to be? My best guess is that the original thought was that she had adopted him thinking he would make her happy, but was fundamentally incapable of opening her heart to a child. 

I enjoyed watching the premiere again, but it was so depressing knowing that all this was going to end with a finale where everyone bows down to Regina. It's obscene. 

[KingOfHearts]

32 minutes ago, companionenvy said:

The EQ is a bit campy for my taste

EQ might've benefited from being toned down a little. The original was vain and psychotic, but she hid behind windows and disguises. Mustache-twirly but not a wedding crasher. While Mayor Mills isn't tossing people around like ragdolls, she's scarier because you don't know what's going on under the surface.

Edited June 2, 2018 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

I think the EQ portrayal was good as is, and I still liked it when rewatching this episode.  Which surprised me since the power of it went down because we just saw it again and again and again and again x 100... literally.

[Camera One]

I'm going to listen to the audio commentary for the pilot with Adam and Eddy since I borrowed the DVD.  Hopefully, my TV won't be destroyed with my axe by the end of this hour.

[Camera One]

I just finished listening to it, and it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be.  It seems like they weren't as arrogant in the first season.  But a few of their comments were telling "If you were the EQ, how horrible would it be to live in a land where everybody has a happy ending - you literally never win.  You put an oven in a gingerbread house and can never cook the children."  

Spoiler

Huh?  Further flashbacks totally don't suggest that most non-villains had a happy ending.  How can they say this after a season where we find out how horrible most people's lives were.  Heck, by Episode 5, we knew Gepetto's parents never had a happy ending.

I thought it was interesting how the beginning sequence with Henry at the bus station was supposed to be longer, to show how Henry was wily but they felt the actor portrayed that adequately even in a shorter sequence, which was true.

They said Charming was supposed to look "annoyed" in the flashback with Snow being worried about the Curse because he had the same conversation with her "over and over again".  I didn't get that impression at all when I've watched it.  I guess this is where an actor's facial expressions can alter how the scene was supposed to be interpreted.

It's interesting how several times, they mentioned that Charming was the one with the faith.

They mentioned how they wanted viewers to think Henry might be Snowing's child, and then they reveal it was Emma.  I actually thought that when I watched the first time.

A&E said they loved writing the Rumple jail scene so much they "fell in love" with him and decided to give him another scene at the end.  Another indication of their love for villains.  I thought that would have been a no-brainer since the pilot was revealing the various counterparts in Storybrooke.  They also said Charming in the hospital was supposed to be the ending of Episode 2, but they realized they needed to give the viewers some hope.  Good call there too.

I didn't realize that Emma was supposed to feel more and more connected to Henry because Henry was being described by various characters, and Emma related to each of the traits... lonely, no friends, etc.  It was neat they took scenes of Emma and Henry in the car when the actors didn't necessarily know they were filming (I guess they were rehearsing?)... those scenes were very natural.

I did like how they gave Regina reasons which were all grounded in the real world and how both characters were "in the right".  It did make the premise more complex, at least in this early stage when we didn't know how evil Regina was.

In the scene where Snow finds Charming dying, Eddy said, "We just love the idea of the Evil Queen coming in and laughing at her."

Spoiler

I did too, since I found The Evil Queen quite deliciously evil.  But really, that alone should be an indication Snow would never have become BFFs with Regina.  

As mentioned by someone above, A&E does explain that Emma uses her "superpower" on Regina at the end in the audio commentary.

A&E said the wall around the town "was not a force field - it's when you leave town, something bad happens that forces you to come back."

Spoiler

I liked that concept more.  Since it felt like the barrier around the town did become a force field eventually.  It's too bad they seemed to get less and less creative over time.

 

3 hours ago, companionenvy said:

-Mary Margaret's students giving her pears rather than apples is a lovely touch.

A&E mentioned in the audio commentary that was Ginnifer Goodwin's idea.

Edited June 3, 2018 by Camera One

[tennisgurl]

Even years later, after everything, I still love this pilot so much. Its so epic, the casting is so great all around (Ginny and Josh especially really nail the sort of otherworldly fairytale feeling), and it does a great job of making the scenes in the EF seem exciting and the scenes in Storeybrooke seem magical and mysterious. Honestly, Storeybrooke seems more magical now, as just a quirky town in Maine, then it does later, when bad guys were lobbing fire balls down the street. I just love this pilot so much, it really is an instant classic. The mix of the fairytale and the real world were really excellent. You had the wolf, the apples, the clocktower moving when Emma got to town, it really set this up as a place where the line between fantasy and reality was very thin.

Its amazing how much more threatening Regina/the EQ were here. Much less campy, and more evil. When she shows up to laugh at Snow as she holds her dying husband is especially evil, in a great villain kind of way. As much as I cant stand how things went with Regina, I can really see why so many people (including A&E) were so taken with her. She really does seem diabolical and intelligent, but also over the top as a Big Villain in the EF parts. Rumple is also interesting to see here, and also comes across as more menacing then he later would. He does his impish ticks, but he also seems legitimately scary and otherworldly here, like some kind of imprisoned super-being from another world.

Emma looks so young here! She has a great introduction, she manages to be tough, while also vulnerable, and while thats a pretty cliche character type, Jen makes it work really well. Also, she looked amazing in that dress in the start! It was also interesting hearing more modern music in this episode, when the show later pretty much stuck with instrumentals and weird 80s nostalgia none of the characters should actually have. 

Spoiler

The Super Power was one of many plot threads I wish they hadn't dropped. I wonder if they dropped it because it would confirm that Regina didnt love Henry, which later got retconed into Regina being the best mom ever and Henry worshiping her, or if they just got lazy. Or both.

Hi Graham! Nice to see you! 

Spoiler

It totally sucks that your years of servitude and sexual assault and brutal murder will go avenged and unmentioned! But I bet you can be thrilled from beyond the grave that your rapist/killer will become Queen of the Universe!

Its also interesting that this episode did a pretty good job at selling the horrors of being stuck in this world. Snow is a wallflower separated from Charming, who is stuck in a coma, Ruby and Granny dont get along, Grumpy is a sad town drunk, Gepetto is childless, etc. 

[legaleagle53]

5 hours ago, Camera One said:

  Hide contents

I thought until Snow gave birth, Snow + Unborn Baby counted as one.  But Snow went into labor before the wardrobe was finished, so Emma had to go alone.  If Snowing had known there were two slots, Pregnant Snow and Charming would have gone together.

Spoiler

You are correct. Snow was supposed to have gone while she was still pregnant with Emma, but she had the bad timing to go into labor before the wardrobe was finished.  But it doesn't change the fact that Blue and Geppetto lied about the wardrobe's capacity in order to save Pinocchio.  That's why Snow bitch-slapped Geppetto when she found out about the lie.

[daxx]

The first scene, the crane shot of Charming riding all out with that amazing score never fails to give me goosebumps. And the first “I’ll always find you” brings literal tears to my eyes.

Now keep in mind I’ve watched this episode at least a dozen times since I’ve rewatched the entire series every hiatus starting with the season 2-3 summer hiatus.

Henry’s so little! Emma’s so Emma. Still love this show even knowing what’s to come.

[daxx]

The wardrobe is in the nursery, right? Why is it so far away from their rooms?

I always think I’m going to make it through the scene where Snow says goodbye to Emma without crying this time. Nope.

love, love the fight scene of Charming fighting his way through Regina’s knights with a baby in one arm.

Emma quit making me cry, my eyes aren’t even dry from the last scene.

[andromeda331]

2 minutes ago, daxx said:

The wardrobe is in the nursery, right? Why is it so far away from their rooms?

I always think I’m going to make it through the scene where Snow says goodbye to Emma without crying this time. Nope.

love, love the fight scene of Charming fighting his way through Regina’s knights with a baby in one arm.

Emma quit making me cry, my eyes aren’t even dry from the last scene.

I never make it through that scene without crying either. Then Snow crying as Charming takes Emma away. Poor Snow thought she had finally defeated the Evil Queen and could finally be happy and have family. Now she has to send her baby away. Later finding her husband dying or dead. I love, love that scene with Charming fighting his way to get Emma to the wardrobe. Its such a good scene.  

[CCTC]

7 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

love that scene with Charming fighting his way to get Emma to the wardrobe. Its such a good scene.  

The little look that Charming gives when he sees the wardrobe is empty and it being the last things as he passes out thinking he  is about to die was well done.  A subtle mixture of grief, loss, but a hint of hope that Emma is safe and will maybe everyone else will be saved (he most likely thought he was about to pass into the great beyond.)  I am guessing Josh was largely cast because he looked like he could be a fairy tale prince, but he could deliver acting wise when given material.

[andromeda331]

23 minutes ago, CCTC said:

The little look that Charming gives when he sees the wardrobe is empty and it being the last things as he passes out thinking he  is about to die was well done.  A subtle mixture of grief, loss, but a hint of hope that Emma is safe and will maybe everyone else will be saved (he most likely thought he was about to pass into the great beyond.)  I am guessing Josh was largely cast because he looked like he could be a fairy tale prince, but he could deliver acting wise when given material.

This is one thing the show did very well. The cast the roles very well with actors and actress who not only looked the part but acted the parts very well.

[andromeda331]

I love after Emma meets Archie she tells Henry he doesn't seem cursed Henry tells her he needs help and Emma asks who he's suppose to be. Henry tells her he's Jimmiy Cricket. Emma remarks the lying thing and she thought Henry's nose grew a little to which Henry remarks that he's not Pinocchio. Emma remarks that would be ridiculous. 

[formerlyfreedom]

8 hours ago, companionenvy said:

Would it be better for us to start new threads for the rewatch? Since some of the point of a rewatch is to see how earlier episodes look in retrospect, it seems silly to have to spoiler-tag everything.

Please don't start new topics/threads; use the existing episode topics and use spoiler tags, OR you can head over to A Thread for All Seasons to discuss the series as a whole.

[tennisgurl]

12 hours ago, daxx said:

love, love the fight scene of Charming fighting his way through Regina’s knights with a baby in one arm.

 

I cant believe I forgot to mention that! Still such an awesome, iconic scene. So many great beets throughout. Snow tearing up as she hands Emma to Charming, Charming stopping a blade from hitting baby Emma, fighting off all the knights, his expression when he sees the empty wardrobe, even as he dies, Snow finding him and somewhat hysterically kissing him, and then telling Regina their daughter got away. Its so intense, and so badass. 

It also makes Emma thinking that her parents cared so little about her that they dumped her on the side of the road, when we see how much they loved her right here.

[daxx]

9 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

It also makes Emma thinking that her parents cared so little about her that they dumped her on the side of the road, when we see how much they loved her right here

Spoiler

How the same people that wrote all this can write the nonsense that was season 6 is beyond me.

I also don’t understand how any of them could ever forgive Regina and become friends. Uneasy allies, yes, friends, no.

[Shanna Marie]

This really is quite a good pilot. I remember being iffy about the concept of the series. I was imagining something like "The Charmings." I was singing in a concert the night of the premiere and recorded it out of curiosity, then my mom called the next day to tell me I really needed to watch it (oddly, although my mom was the one who encouraged me to watch, she didn't make it through all of season one). It ended up being just my thing, with the juxtaposition of the real world and the magical world, fairy tales, and portals between our world and the magical world. I love contemporary fantasy that puts the ordinary world side-by-side with the magical world, I love traditional swashbuckling fairy tale fantasy, and I love "portal" fantasy in which people travel to magical worlds, and vice versa, so this was all my fantasy loves in one show.

It took me a while to warm up to Emma back when I first watched because I rather intensely disliked Jennifer Morrison in House, but I really do love Emma from the start now. Storybrooke is so atmospheric in the pilot. It had a creepy edge to it that made it seem like it really might be cursed and might not be that idyllic for its residents. There's also a somewhat unworldly sense about the townspeople. I can't imagine Mary Margaret surviving in, say, Boston or New York.

Didn't they establish that Emma's birthday was in October, so this episode was supposedly taking place at around the time it first aired? They seem to have forgotten that while filming because Emma's walking around Boston in a sleeveless dress in October, and all the trees are green and lush.

I felt a strange surge of joy when the clock ticked forward for the first time. Now, that's what hope feels like.

[KingOfHearts]

2 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

Storybrooke is so atmospheric in the pilot. It had a creepy edge to it that made it seem like it really might be cursed and might not be that idyllic for its residents. There's also a somewhat unworldly sense about the townspeople. I can't imagine Mary Margaret surviving in, say, Boston or New York.

Storybrooke has a very "Twilight Zone" feel with the residents acting vague. 

Spoiler

Over the course of the season, they begin acting much more "human", making mistakes, falling in love, reacting emotionally to things in real time, etc. At the beginning, the citizens are very archetypal and don't question anything. Their evolution is subtle but it really comes to a head in the Kathryn murder arc. I like that breaking the curse was more of a slow burn than just TLKing and erasing everything, going from zero to sixty in a single finale episode. I also enjoy the fact the cursed personalities have equal validity with their real identities. Mary Margaret is just as real of a person as Snow White, with her own motivations, relationships, and dynamics. I didn't get that vibe at all in S7, or any time after the curse broke for that matter. Charming before the curse and afterwards was exactly the same person. David Nolan just vanished.

Edited June 3, 2018 by KingOfHearts

[companionenvy]

19 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Spoiler

Mary Margaret is just as real of a person as Snow White, with her own motivations, relationships, and dynamics. I didn't get that vibe at all in S7, or any time after the curse broke for that matter. Charming before the curse and afterwards was exactly the same person. David Nolan just vanished.

 

Spoiler

I'm not sure that I agree, although that's probably more because the show never delved all that deeply into the details of the curse than because I think you're wrong, per se. MM has a personality of her own, certainly, but it couldn't have been all that deep, because there's no indication the cursed SBers had a real sense of memory, history, etc. Although while there's plenty I blame the show for, I'm not sure if I can criticize the writers too much for playing a bit fast and loose with some logistics; if Emma and/or Henry had taken the obvious tactic of pressing cursed people about their backstories and revealing the gaps, everything would have come to a head much earlier. 

I also  think  that to the extent that MM et al are fully realized people rather than cardboard cut-outs, it is because of the traits that have carried over from their previous lives. Certainly, Gold has a lot of similarities to Rumple, Archie to Jiminy, Leroy to Grumpy, etc. Most of them are even living rough real-word equivalents to their FTL lives. What Regina has done - and maybe more for Snow and Charming than for the rest -- is deprived them of their main source of happiness and/or certain core characteristics, especially if they could threaten her; MM loses her spunk, and David is indecisive and weak. 

Other than Mary Margaret/Snow, we don't really have a lot of evidence of people grappling with the "we are both" of it all, and it might be worth thinking about why Snow seems to have been the one who had the most holdover from her cursed identity. Although even there, I'm not sure that she is, at first; in 2A, she's pretty much back to herself. It is her killing of Cora in 2B that drives her back to the meeker MM persona. 

[coops]

4 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

Storybrooke is so atmospheric in the pilot. It had a creepy edge to it that made it seem like it really might be cursed and might not be that idyllic for its residents. There's also a somewhat unworldly sense about the townspeople.

I felt there was a Stephen King-esque feel to Storybrooke. Isn't "It" set in Maine? Storybrooke was so mysterious in the first season because there was so much we had yet to find out about it. Right from the start you felt the town held so many secrets. I also love how all the residents of the town seem discontent and Regina, while not exactly happy, fits right into the modern world with the most modern house, car, clothes etc. Even Gold is depicted as a fairly old fashioned kind of man but Regina is the most modern looking and living out of all the characters, which is apt seeing as she's the one who cast the curse.

[Inquirer]

29 minutes ago, coops said:

I felt there was a Stephen King-esque feel to Storybrooke. Isn't "It" set in Maine?

Yes. LOTS of Stephen King's stories are set in Maine, "It" included.

[coops]

1 hour ago, Inquirer said:

LOTS of Stephen King's stories are set in Maine, "It" included.

Never read any of them out of fear. Tried "The Shining" and freaked out before they even got to the hotel. Maine seems to be the go to place for 'small strange towns' to be set. 

[Shanna Marie]

One of the things that struck me was the bit near the end when Emma's going to the B&B to get a room, and she has to walk down a narrow sidewalk lined with trees, like she's having to fight her way through a forest. I don't think we got that view of the inn again. It really was like she was making her way down a dark forest path to reach Grandma's house, right out of the fairy tale.

[profdanglais]

53 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

One of the things that struck me was the bit near the end when Emma's going to the B&B to get a room, and she has to walk down a narrow sidewalk lined with trees, like she's having to fight her way through a forest. I don't think we got that view of the inn again. It really was like she was making her way down a dark forest path to reach Grandma's house, right out of the fairy tale.

I love this too. Then she goes into the inn and it’s covered in cobwebs and Granny’s reaction makes it clear that they never have guests. So creepy, but in a good way. 

[Camera One]

This pilot is still really good, despite multiple previous rewatches.  I think I could have waited maybe a year or two longer, for more of the "watching for the first time" feeling, but the emotional parts were still effective.  

The pacing was good too, and it felt like every scene and line counted.  The transitions from present-day to flashbacks were fun.  The whole episode was well crafted, and when I think back to all the pilots I've seen since this one, it is very rare indeed.

Though at the same time, I almost *don't* want to watch more. 

Spoiler

The bad taste is still too present, and as good as the first season was, it was ultimately very frustrating to watch, from the whole David going back to Kathryn debacle, to Emma taking forever to believe, and Regina/Gold gaining the upper hand.  And that's not even thinking about how there was very little payoff once Season 1 ended and the Curse was broken.  

 

 

Edited October 24, 2021 by Camera One

[CCTC]

Yes - watched the pilot and it really was done well and the casting was pretty spot-on.  Although you can tell Doran was pretty clean in the acting department at that time.  This is for a different thread, but the season 1 finale was also very good and a good bookend to the pilot and the season.

They did a good job having a lot of the supporting characters make-up the feel of the town.

I am not sure how I missed this before, but at the end when Emma asked Regina if she loved Henry, I forgot she had the "superpower" of knowing when people are lying.   Henry also really disliked Regina. 

Spoiler

It really contradicts what they set-up later of Henry being Regina's biggest cheerleader.  They needed a slower transition to that.

Rumple was really pretty manic and insane in that episode.  Both Carlye and Lana did a good job of playing their characters a little [or a lot in the case of Gold/Rumple] different between the two lands.  All of the cursed characters did.  

[Shanna Marie]

I find that the pilot still grabs me. I got caught up in it, and it made me want to watch more (I didn't, though). I love the atmosphere, the transitions between the present and the flashbacks and all the conflicts that were established.

One detail I don't think I've ever noticed before: In Mary Margaret's classroom, one of the students hands her a pear -- like an apple for the teacher, but not, since an apple wouldn't be a good gift for Snow White.

I have a lot of other thoughts about how the pilot relates to the rest of the series, so to avoid lots of spoiler bars I'm going to take it to the All Seasons thread.

[tennisgurl]

Watching this pilot is so bittersweet. Its still such a great pilot, full of mystery, suspense, fun, and great performances by the entire cast. It grabs me and pulls me in now just as much as it did when I first watched it. Its got this great atmosphere in both the Enchanted Forrest and in Storeybrooke. 

They set up so much cool stuff and...we all know what ended up happening.

[KAOS Agent]

Season 1 in general is a world away from most of the rest of the series and the pilot is the most representative of the bait and switch this series pulls selling the audience on the Charming family vs the Evil Queen and "The Final Battle" beginning.