Murdoch Mysteries - General Discussion

[Trey]

On 1/14/2020 at 10:54 PM, Davey1 said:

I just saw this episode and cannot understand something. If the elevator was in the building of the symposium, then how was it possible that they woke up in the elevator that was far away from Toronto. Presumably Sally Pendrick's lab was in the basement of the symposium building. Any explanations anyone?

No explanation from me, I'm afraid.  I just sort of accept what they show me.

[Trey]

Very good episode last night.  But I hope we never see Ralph Fellows again.  Or Mrs. Huckabee.  I do hope Julia gets her pelican back.

Loved the little joke near the end, when they are talking about George's book tour from Halifax to Vancouver - Brackenreid laughs and says he hopes George will be still standing when he gets back😊

 

[LilWharveyGal]

1 hour ago, Trey said:

Loved the little joke near the end, when they are talking about George's book tour from Halifax to Vancouver - Brackenreid laughs and says he hopes George will be still standing when he gets back😊

 

That was great! Our household loves Still Standing!

[peacheslatour]

1 hour ago, LilWharveyGal said:

That was great! Our household loves Still Standing!

"Pink Floyd doesn't rock. Pink Floyd is mellow."

[Enginerd]

It cracks me up that the visitors to William's and Julia's house are so rude. They constantly insult the architecture and decor, invite themselves to stay for dinner or drink the booze, murder people in the potato cooking room, steal the artwork, and almost every person who comes over walks right in as soon as the door is opened, without waiting to be invited.

[marina to]

6 hours ago, Trey said:

Very good episode last night.  But I hope we never see Ralph Fellows again.  Or Mrs. Huckabee.  I do hope Julia gets her pelican back.

Loved the little joke near the end, when they are talking about George's book tour from Halifax to Vancouver - Brackenreid laughs and says he hopes George will be still standing when he gets back😊

 

Same here. I'm tired of the obsession plotlines. I know it's been 200 episodes so it's hard to find something new but how about just owning this is a fun show and run with it?

My roommate lost it at the still standing joke.

[Prevailing Wind]

When I was on my Road Trip to Maine this summer, I went into New Brunswick to McAdam, to see the train station based on the Still Standing episode.  They even gave me a map to Horny Corner!

[The Crazed Spruce]

Just a reminder that this thread's about Murdoch Mysteries, not Still Standing. You can find that forum here.

[christie]

On 1/15/2020 at 5:54 AM, Davey1 said:

I just saw this episode and cannot understand something. If the elevator was in the building of the symposium, then how was it possible that they woke up in the elevator that was far away from Toronto. Presumably Sally Pendrick's lab was in the basement of the symposium building. Any explanations anyone?

They didn't wake up in the elevator. They woke up in the underground structure which included the lab - at least that was my understanding

[blackwing]

Ovation just started airing season 13 here in the states.  First two episodes aired.  It’s been a while since I saw season 12... can someone remind me exactly what Violet Hart did?  I vaguely recall she was involved in corruption with the rival station chief, or something like that.  I also recall that Murdoch found out about it.

It’s very evident that he despises her but unfortunately everyone else seems to love her (although Julia at the end of episode 2 has now realized she is not an ethical person).   What I’m confused on is why Murdoch didn’t say anything back then.  Or why he isn’t saying anything now.  
 

I actually have come to like Dr Dixon.  He was a complete ass to Julia when he was first introduced but I think he has come to respect her and value her.  I hope he’s not gone for good.  

[statsgirl]

The prison episode "Rigid Silence" was written by Maureen Jennings, the writer of the original books.  From my reading of imdb, it's only 9th episode she's written.  I thought it was really well done even if the person who done it was the next best-known actor.  I think Liisa Repo-Martell was so believable explaining why the Clan had to be stopped.

I also liked that Murdoch couldn't read or understand Irish; unlike so many other TV detectives, he's not completely perfect.

It's nice to see Nigel Bennett toned down and showing his more subtle skills. He's usually so over the top evil, I forget that he's a good actor.

Pleasantly surprised to see Margaret not going off on Noni.  Still don't like Margaret though.

[LilWharveyGal]

Who knew that Edwardian prisons had such soft, flattering lighting inside? 😄 In one scene William and Julia were practically glowing.

[Trey]

Another clip show! Terrence Meyers has certainly had a chequered career.

Assassination by poisoned butter tart - hilarious! The writers must have had fun with that one.

And Alan Clegg lives on to do more damage.

What was Julia's point at the end, asking William if he found Miss Baker attractive and that she was flirting with him? I thought she was trying to make him feel guilty.

Edited February 11, 2020 by Trey

[statsgirl]

That was fun, looking back on all those previous seasons. It's a good time when Peter Kelleghan shows up.

12 hours ago, Trey said:

What was Julia's point at the end, asking William if he found Miss Baker attractive and that she was flirting with him? I thought she was trying to make him feel guilty.

That was weird. Whatever else he may do, William will never cheat on Julia. Maybe she was trying to make herself feel better about her attraction to the surgeon.

[marina to]

On 2/11/2020 at 9:26 AM, Trey said:

What was Julia's point at the end, asking William if he found Miss Baker attractive and that she was flirting with him? I thought she was trying to make him feel guilty.

My roommate thinks that's setting up Baker hitting on him next time.

God, I don't want there to be a next time. I'm tired of Myers and Clegg's nine lives. I'm tired of all the spy stuff. But with the end reveal, we're getting more. Uggh.

For a clip show, this was well done. Just wish it was another subject.

[Trey]

I really enjoyed seeing Julia, Effie and Miss Pink solving the mystery together. For once Miss Pink was useful. But Julia should not have threatened Miss Hart with "getting her out" of her job at the morgue.

Loved Oscar the pig! Apparently he really was at the Royal Winter Fair last November. I liked Watts' remark that now he is on the pig's side.

[Pepper the Cat]

I really enjoyed this episode. I loved the women banding together to solve the murder. The original Women’s Murder Mystery Club!

[statsgirl]

2 hours ago, Pepper the Cat said:

 The original Women’s Murder Mystery Club!

That's what my daughter said!  (I miss that show.)

This was a fun episode, and gave some time off to the usual male cast. I even started to like Miss Cherry a bit, and that it wasn't about the baby at all but about the husband's cheating was a great twist.  I also liked that the baby was freely given up, and that Miss Harper was so accepting of a baby born out of wedlock.

I laughed at Watts now being on the pig's side (Maslany is very good with the bits of business he does for the role), and the reference to the Winter Fair possibly receiving the "Royal" designation which Brackenreid pooh-poohed. I did wonder whether the outdoor cafes being historically correct though sign when my family arrived in Toronto in the early 1960s, there were no outdoor tables at all.

I understand why they are writing Margaret this way, but I cannot like her.

3 hours ago, Trey said:

 But Julia should not have threatened Miss Hart with "getting her out" of her job at the morgue.

Not threatened her because it could backfire with Miss Hart going after Julia? Or not threatened her because it is now Miss Hart's morgue?

Unlike Margaret, Miss Hart is written with a complexity that intrigues me. When Julia first me her, she was hawking some ladies treatment and had no medical training. It was Julia who brought her into the morgue and trained her. (In those days, you could become a doctor just by apprenticing to one.) Miss Hart is ambitious and sneaky, while usually doing a competent job. I don't like her so I'm fine with the amount of time that she's getting but she's a good grace note to the show.

[peacheslatour]

Quote

I laughed at Watts now being on the pig's side (Maslany is very good with the bits of business he does for the role)

I wonder where their going to go with his sexuality now.

[Trey]

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

Not threatened her because it could backfire with Miss Hart going after Julia? Or not threatened her because it is now Miss Hart's morgue?

Both, actually.

[allonsyalice]

I really loved this episode. The a plot and the b plot were both tight. And i love seeing the ladies be like “LETS SOLVE SOME CRIME!” 

[marina to]

"No, I'm on the pig's side now."

This episode was just so much fun. I'm sure Yannick Bisson was happy to have a light week and it was great to see the ladies shine. I am on Miss Hart's side on this though. It is her space and Julia does not have the right to just pop in whenever she wants. Very cool about how we see her similarities to William in how things are handled. And for the first time, neither Effie nor Miss Cherry bugged me. Progress!

[Victor the Crab]

Just catching up on some past episodes.

I can't believe Giles was still in prison. I'd have thought he'd be out by now. But it's good seeing he called for William and Julia's help, and that he's been more likeable. Hopefully William and Julia's good word for him to the warden will go through, seeing as he's a huge fanboy of both.

And I can't believe that pond scum Clegg escaped the noose. He seems more elusive than James Gillies. Here's hoping justice does finally come to him in the harshest way possible.

And I too enjoyed the episode where the ladies got together to solve a murder. And I also quite enjoyed Effie and Louise's appearances here, as they didn't make me cringe.

We have the penultimate episode of this season coming up, and the season finale next week. And from the looks of the things, the shit's about to really hit the fan hard.

[Pepper the Cat]

Well, crap! I really liked Parker. That sucks.

and I don’t believe that Julia would cheat on Murdoch. 
 

Poor Crabtree! Shades of Misery!!

[statsgirl]

I liked Parker!  Why did they kill him?  There was more story to they could have told with him.

Why are they messing with the Murdoch marriage?  This is not fun to watch.

I'm enjoying the Miss Hart stuff though.  That was a very slow burn but it looks like the pot will start to bubble soon.

[allonsyalice]

What are the chances the only two black people in this show have the same shady connections. 
Apparently, 100%. wild. 
(Also RIP Parker. We hardly knew ye)

I know it’s meant to be bad, but I’m bisexual and I’m totally behind “suspicious homosexual behaviour” 

Can Julia just.....not have an affair? It’s basically coming out of nowhere because it’s not like she and William have been unhappy or outright angry. And their relationship was such a slowburn (that plot with that Degrassi guy  Life With Derek Guy was the worst long game lmao that didnt make sense either) like they just been through so much. Can we not just solve crime? All I wanna do is solve crime.

Watts is always the MVP of the show. 

Edited February 25, 2020 by allonsyalice
Michael Seater was never on Degrassi! How embarrassing, I should know better!!

[UNOSEZ]

1 hour ago, allonsyalice said:

What are the chances the only two black people in this show have the same shady connections. 
Apparently, 100%. wild. 
(Also RIP Parker. We hardly knew ye)

Damn I've missed like 4 episodes.. Parkers dead?..  They killed the first black guy... Damn... Who was shady?  

[peacheslatour]

Quote

Watts is always the MVP of the show. 

That he is.

[Trey]

There was so much going on in this episode. 

Is the detective working with Watts really checking up on him? It almost sounded like it.

Poor George! I really dislike story lines where someone is being held captive.

And poor Parker! I did not think it would end like this for him.  I expected him to go on to bigger and better things, so I am very sad for him.  Of course I knew Miss Hart was bad but I didn't think she would murder someone.  Even if she didn't personally administer the poison, although I'm pretty sure she did, she is still involved in the murder up to her eyeballs. And I'm glad Brackenreid finally knows the truth about her.

I just don't know what to say about Julia.  I thought she would have more sense but apparently she doesn't. Murdoch's phone call came just in time. Is Dr. Dixon going to ask her to go to B.C. with him?  Will she go? 

Well, they've got lots to wrap up in the season finale.

 

[allonsyalice]

They've been playing the long game with Violet for a while, and excuse me for standing on my soap box, but I sort of hate that they've done it to the only black woman character on the show. All they're doing is playing into the stereotype that black = evil. 

It wouldn't be a problem if they had more than one black person, but here we are. (Oh, snap. I forgot about Brackenreid's daughter, but that should tell you how memorable that character is) 

She's not really gotten any characterization beyond "determined" and "secretly evil" and it'll the white heroes who prevail. 

I know I'm reading into this 100% but it's tiring seeing this happen again. 

Also, let me call you sweetheart didn't come out til 1910 what year is it (or is Dr Dixon also a master song writer along with being a hot doctor lmao)

[Trey]

39 minutes ago, allonsyalice said:

Also, let me call you sweetheart didn't come out til 1910 what year is it

It must be pretty close to 1910 although they seldom mention the year.  I remember it was the start of the new century when Julia and Darcy Garland separated and that was the end of Season 5. So, pretty close to 1910.

[allonsyalice]

Season 7 was 1901! So even if a new season is a new year, its 1906 or thereabouts. Close enough, I guess 

[peacheslatour]

Quote

Well, they've got lots to wrap up in the season finale.

Yep. I hope they make it a doozy!

[statsgirl]

11 hours ago, allonsyalice said:

They've been playing the long game with Violet for a while, and excuse me for standing on my soap box, but I sort of hate that they've done it to the only black woman character on the show. All they're doing is playing into the stereotype that black = evil. 

It wouldn't be a problem if they had more than one black person, but here we are. (Oh, snap. I forgot about Brackenreid's daughter, but that should tell you how memorable that character is)

Violet's predecessor, Dr. Rebecca James, was a lovely person and left the show to get married to her true love.

I think Violet's badness stands out because there are so few black characters on the show (even fewer Asian ones). There have been plenty of villainous white policemen.

[allonsyalice]

8 hours ago, statsgirl said:

Violet's predecessor, Dr. Rebecca James, was a lovely person and left the show to get married to her true love.

I think Violet's badness stands out because there are so few black characters on the show (even fewer Asian ones). There have been plenty of villainous white policemen.

Yes, and Rebecca was fine. But she’s not on the show anymore. 

The reason why im not saying anything about the white villain is because every main character on this show is also white. People can see white people as both good and bad.

Violet is the only black women on the show, and it’s a longrunning trope that black = evil. And since she’s clearly shady af, they’re playing right into that trope with her. I’m not saying that no black character can be a villian, I’m saying they should have more than one full time black character to weigh it out. (Having the white characters be sympathetic to the plight of black characters doesn’t count.) But, as with anything, ymmv.

I said in my other post that I’m probably over thinking it, but I don’t think I am. I know I’m asking a lot of this show but here we are. 

[UNOSEZ]

15 minutes ago, allonsyalice said:

said in my other post that I’m probably over thinking it, but I don’t think I am. I know I’m asking a lot of this show but here we are. 

After 13 seasons based on who these characters are at their core we shoulda been further along... 13 years one black cop and he's killed in his first season... Smh... Having our white protagonists be sympathetic is a good thing.. But its not really enough and if were only gonna have one steady character it sucks making her shady... And I like ms. Hart being kinda shady we can't all be noble and righteous and constantly turning the other cheek.. Sometimes being beaten down makes you a fighter... So on that level she's interesting and a variation on the usual trope.. But because she's the only one it feels wrong

[statsgirl]

The show prides itself on historical accuracy. The first black policeman in Toronto was hired in 1960. In contrast, Alexander Augusta opened his medical practice in 1856.

Julia had a black protege who was good. Now she has a black protege who is sketchy.

Given the historical constraints, what black character would you like to see the show add? Robert Sutherland was practising law in Walkerton at the time but he would be an occasional character, not a regular.

[welnoc]

When she first appeared on the show, I couldn'd decide if Shanice Banton was just a wooden actor, or if Ms Hart has ASPD (antisocial personality disorder). I decided on the latter.

Makes me question Julia Ogden's psychiatric skills.

I'm not a huge fan of Julia and I think she's due for a bit of a comedown. I find her very arrogant and condescending quite often. Having said that, I really don't want to see her having an affair and ruining her marriage.

[Miss Molly]

I am going to be really annoyed if the series ends and they've left us with such character assassination regarding Julia.  The one thing that bothers me about this series is they drag the stories out for such a long time.  It's literally been a year since Violet Hart tampered with evidence.  Wrap it up already!  And as for Julia, suddenly out of the blue she lies to William about having to take care of things at work and instead joins Dr. Dixon in a bar, then she goes even further at the conference by making out with him, and that would have likely gone further had William not called.  It's like the writers are going for shock value instead of well-crafter stories.  

I love this show but it seems like every episode has a major issue that we're supposed to overlook.

[peacheslatour]

12 minutes ago, welnoc said:

When she first appeared on the show, I couldn'd decide if Shanice Banton was just a wooden actor, or if Ms Hart has ASPD (antisocial personality disorder). I decided on the latter.

Makes me question Julia Ogden's psychiatric skills.

I'm not a huge fan of Julia and I think she's due for a bit of a comedown. I find her very arrogant and condescending quite often. Having said that, I really don't want to see her having an affair and ruining her marriage.

I'm really starting not to like her. Maybe it's the actress, maybe it's the writing. I can't put my finger on it.

[The Crazed Spruce]

I have to say, I found it extremely uncomfortable that, out of the only three black characters currently on the show, one was killed, another is, at the very least, an accessory in his murder, and the third, when she appears at all, seems mainly to be there to further an established character's storyline.

Hell, the third is such a nonentity, I almost said "the only two black characters..."

[statsgirl]

Ethnic diversity is a problem for the show. There has been only one First Nations character, which is shameful. I can't recall any Chinese characters although there by an increasing population by 1903.

They're not as bad at sexual diversity between George's "aunts", Dr. Grace and now Watts.

[Prevailing Wind]

There have been Chinese characters - the ep. with the dirty cops in Chinatown and one of 'em (dirty cop) got killed. Show was sympathetic to the Chinese.

Edited February 27, 2020 by Prevailing Wind

[The Crazed Spruce]

21 hours ago, Prevailing Wind said:

There have been Chinese characters - the ep. with the dirty cops in Chinatown and one of 'em (dirty cop) got killed. Show was sympathetic to the Chinese.

One-off characters, yeah, but no regulars.

[marina to]

Just had a discussion around what's happening with Julia with my roommate. He's not seeing it as a problem. He thinks that if Julia has a one-timer with Dixon before he leaves and then carries guilt and have no one to talk about will give them some tension to play with in the marriage.

For me, I get it. A hot young doctor who is madly in love with you? This is why I'm poly. Wish society would allow her to have both. Having said that, what the show has been doing really well recently is highlighting the differences in values that William and Julia have always had - Julia being a progressive feminist and William being a traditional Catholic. Their love papered over these but that's not something that will remain buried forever.

Part of Dixon's appeal is that he shares Julia's love of medicine, something that William struggles to understand. Whether or not anything else happens, I can see why Julia would feel pulled to him. He's been her champion in a very misogynistic world, just as William was when she was coroner. In fact, the deeper I look, the more I see similarities between William and Dixon. I understand her temptation.

I also acknowledge that a lot of people carry the belief that once you're in love with someone you'll never desire anyone else again and to do so is a failure of the relationship. And through that lens, the showrunners are playing a very dangerous game here. 

I am also completely gutted about Parker. When he turned up dead, I audibly said "oh no". I liked that we had a re-occuring black male character that was also a great cop and that the show had found a way around to have him there. I utterly hate that they had Violet kill him. I liked the edges that she has - like someone said above, I think it's good to have characters who aren't perfect and have to fight for what they want. I really wanted her to struggle with reforming herself but ultimately come down on the side of Murdoch & co. And to do this while some white guy who is a murderer goes free? I'm guessing this will be addressed next week but it's not sitting right.

Mostly, I really loved Parker and I'm going to miss him. Yet we're still stuck with Clegg and Myers? Really bad call, Powers That Be.

Another bad call? This whole Misery storyline with George. WTF? What is with this torture characters every season towards the finale? Can't we let George just enjoy his damn book?

Edited March 1, 2020 by marina to
ETA re: George's storyline

[peacheslatour]

I hate so much that they killed off Mr. Parker. He was a great character and so good looking. I'm not sure how I feel about Watts new love interest. He's not been in a relationship before, has he? It's going to go hard on him if he gets found out. A gay Jewish cop will be an outrage to a lot of the townsfolk and the coppers themselves. Murdoch has been told repeatedly that he will never rise to be more than a detective because he's Catholic. Which brings me to another point. Didn't we always kind of suspect that somewhere along the way his piety and Julia's pragmatism would reach the point of deal breaker?

[allonsyalice]

On 2/26/2020 at 10:16 PM, The Crazed Spruce said:

I have to say, I found it extremely uncomfortable that, out of the only three black characters currently on the show, one was killed, another is, at the very least, an accessory in his murder, and the third, when she appears at all, seems mainly to be there to further an established character's storyline.

Hell, the third is such a nonentity, I almost said "the only two black characters..."

I'm actually thinking of writing CBC a letter. As a black person (i usually wouldnt do this, but it me!) I shouldn't have to be happy with this subpar representation. Claiming historical accuracy isn't even an excuse. Black people didn't just appear when Fresh Prince started to air. If they can have a woman be the morgue doctor, then a psychiatrist, then a surgeon, they can have a black journalist or something. A private detective! A lawyer! An inventor! It's fiction and the sky is the limit! (This also goes for any race, I just feel like i shouldn't speak for races who aren't mine!)

I counted, and Parker was only in 7 episodes. 7!! (For reference, James Gillies got 8, Pendrick has 12, and Myers has 13.) He got very little character development before being killed off. 

It's definitely a problem that begins with the writers room. A quick peek at the wiki, which may or may not be out of date,  there's been one black writer and she only did one episode in 2017. 

I don't know about ya'll, but in 2020 I demand better from any of my media. 

I'm trying to still like this show, but this episode was a mess and I can't fathom how it won't be a mess next week. 

Edited March 1, 2020 by allonsyalice

[statsgirl]

@allonsyalice, also write a letter to the writers room with ideas for longterm black characters.  I like the idea of a black newspaper reporter as there were black journals back to the 1850s and I'm tired of those annoying women reporters.  William Peyton Hubbard was Vice Chairman of the Board of Control from 1904 which would be perfect for next season although he would be more of a one shot.

[Pendrick has been in 12 episodes but that's over 10 years. Myers has been in 13 but he's been on the show since season 1 and shows up an average of once a season.  (They spent far too much time on Gillies.) I don't think they're comparable to Parker's 7 episodes in one season.]

2 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

Didn't we always kind of suspect that somewhere along the way his piety and Julia's pragmatism would reach the point of deal breaker?

I see it not so much as piety* vs pragmatism but as Julia's need for novelty.  She left the coroner's office to run the pediatrics ward in Buffalo, then she got married even though she was in love with William, then she returned to Toronto. She decided to become a neurologist (the terms for psychiatrist in those days and decided to divorce her husband. I think she went back to the coroner's office for a while and then left that to become a surgeon.  She knows that having an affair with Dixon would be a bad idea but the lure of the new is so difficult to resist.

*I think that even if William weren't Catholic, he still wouldn't cheat if he were in a monogamous relationship. Or if he did he would feel horrible about it.

[allonsyalice]

11 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

@allonsyalice, also write a letter to the writers room with ideas for longterm black characters.  I like the idea of a black newspaper reporter as there were black journals back to the 1850s and I'm tired of those annoying women reporters.  William Peyton Hubbard was Vice Chairman of the Board of Control from 1904 which would be perfect for next season although he would be more of a one shot.

I honestly think it's bonkers that I, a 25 year old, basically has to write them a letter to rethink how they use characters of colour but here I go, I guess. 

(I'm saying that characters that aren't even good or interesting were given way more air time than seven measly episodes in one season)

[Prevailing Wind]

I read the current comments here and when the US finally gets the episode on Acorn, I come back & read the comments again now that I've seen it.  Am I missing something? Have y'all just ignored the Rupert Newsome/Fox Hunting episode? It just showed up on Acorn this morning.