S04.E04: Talk

[SunnyBeBe]

My local broadcast cut away as soon as the judge returned and saw Kim was still there.  He went to say something, but, then it cut. So, I don't know what happened after that, as after the commercial, it returned to a different scene.  I haven't had a chance to watch it OnDemand online yet. 

[Milburn Stone]

10 hours ago, Dev F said:

What I saw seems to match what people are describing, but I didn't find it confusing or think anything was missing. Kim and the judge chat in his chambers, and he warns her that if he sees her in his courtroom again he'll put her to work on a case. Then there's a time cut and the judge is back in his courtroom continuing with his day, and he notices that, despite his warning, Kim is still there watching the proceedings. He reacts to that as he starts in on the next case, and the scene ends.

This describes exactly what I saw. Nothing came across like a mistake.

[Clanstarling]

4 minutes ago, Milburn Stone said:

This describes exactly what I saw. Nothing came across like a mistake.

I don't really remember the scene, and I don't know that I thought it was a mistake as such. It was jarring enough for me to comment out loud about it  - it just seemed more abrupt than other cuts in the episode, and I was taken aback. I watched it on Prime, with no commercials, so it really stood out to me.

Edited September 3, 2018 by Clanstarling

[100Proof]

12 hours ago, MaryPatShelby said:

So, I've read most of the comments and this seems to have happened to some, if not all of us?  Mine cut to commercial mid-sentence while the judge was speaking, then Kim's storyline was never picked up again. Is this consistent with everyone else's viewing or was there more to that scene?

This is why I'm disappointed that the show has become, to a large extent, a BB prequel. 

I suppose that if this series winds up going another 4+ seasons then much of SG's world of criminal lawyering with the cartels and all will be much more in the forefront

 

 

On 8/27/2018 at 10:29 PM, Tighthead said:

I think Kim is watching trial work because she is having a crisis of conscience about whether her calling is to do regulatory work for a regional bank.

 

On 8/27/2018 at 11:20 PM, peeayebee said:

As I expected, we learned what Kim was up to when she told her paralegal last week that she was going to the courthouse. I guess she wants to find something more interesting and satisfying to her than doing Mesa Verde work.

 

What I saw was Kim seemingly becoming very concerned and had wheels spinning in her head over the huge expansions Mesa Verde was planning to undertake. I guess being privvy to their financials and all, she quietly saw it as unsustainable growth and a company becoming steeped in debt to cover that expansion. I think Kim saw a Mesa Verde collapse as imminent at some point.

What year was it then in the SG universe?  Was it prior to 2007 economic collapse?  If so, and although Kim couldn't have known that would happen, the collapse probably would've sealed Mesa Verde's demise and validated Kim's (my opinion) concerns.

So to me, that's why Kim wound up back in the courthouse. She knew her time as Mesa Verde's lawyer was coming to and end

Edited September 3, 2018 by 100Proof

[Milburn Stone]

6 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

I don't really remember the scene, and I don't know that I thought it was a mistake as such. It was jarring enough for me to comment out loud about it  - it just seemed more abrupt than other cuts in the episode, and I was taken aback. I watched it on Prime, with no commercials, so it really stood out to me.

This raises the possibility that it worked better with a cut to a commercial (as the creators anticipated it would) than without one. I can see that.

[Dev F]

10 minutes ago, Milburn Stone said:

This raises the possibility that it worked better with a cut to a commercial (as the creators anticipated it would) than without one. I can see that.

I did watch it live on the air, so maybe that's why it didn't seem like a mistake to me either. Though I think at least one person earlier in the thread talked about how it seemed like they cut to commercial too early, so it seems like at least some people who watched it with commercials still thought it seemed off.

[MaryPatShelby]

11 hours ago, Dev F said:

What I saw seems to match what people are describing, but I didn't find it confusing or think anything was missing. Kim and the judge chat in his chambers, and he warns her that if he sees her in his courtroom again he'll put her to work on a case. Then there's a time cut and the judge is back in his courtroom continuing with his day, and he notices that, despite his warning, Kim is still there watching the proceedings. He reacts to that as he starts in on the next case, and the scene ends.

Or did some local broadcasts cut away earlier?

Like I said, mine cut away mid-sentence - the judge saw Kim in the courtroom, reacted non-verbally, then said something like "I'm not..." or "I'm going to...", then....cut.  It just seems odd to cut away like that, before a scene has even ended.  But it sounds like I didn't miss anything.  

[Dev F]

2 hours ago, MaryPatShelby said:

Like I said, mine cut away mid-sentence - the judge saw Kim in the courtroom, reacted non-verbally, then said something like "I'm not..." or "I'm going to...", then....cut.  It just seems odd to cut away like that, before a scene has even ended.  But it sounds like I didn't miss anything.  

Yeah, I think that's how it went for everyone. But the judge wasn't saying anything important to the story; he was just starting to get into his next case. Per the transcript: "I'll address the defense's motion to disqualify opposing counsel. Well, I read your brief very carefully, but I'm not . . ." Unless folks were really eager to learn why the judge refused to disqualify the lawyer from the DA's office in a case we've never heard of, what comes next is inconsequential.

[Penman61]

Can a lawyer just show up in a courtroom and then later be invited/conscripted to being a defense lawyer?  That doesn't seem...sustainable (among other problems).  Or is Kim just trying to get on a list?  (Even that seems problematic as a process.)

ETA:  Defense lawyers are definitely government employees (county, state, fed).  Is there some additional list of "for-hire" defense lawyers that a court can select from?

Edited September 3, 2018 by Penman61

[Wildlifefan]

I agree with some that Mike just wanted out of the support group.  I just really hate the way he did it.  He certainly isn't truthful about how his son died, so he shouldn't complain.

I liked Mike in BB.  But his backstory has soured me on him.  And Stacey is just as bad.  She has to know the money Mike has isn't from his first local job.

As for Kim, I think she finds out that Jimmy is working for drug dealers eventually.  That is her line in the sand.

?

[Lonesome Rhodes]

3 hours ago, Penman61 said:

Can a lawyer just show up in a courtroom and then later be invited/conscripted to being a defense lawyer? 

Yes.  As a condition of admittance to the Bar in most, if not all, states, a lawyer must accept a bench order to represent someone, provided there is no conflict of interest.  Many states also require a certain number of hours of pro bono service and taking on such a case would fit the bill.  

Often, as I have been told, those clients later get passed off to another lawyer who is more suited to the task, aka not as rich or powerful as the conscripted lawyer.  

[Gobi]

41 minutes ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

Yes.  As a condition of admittance to the Bar in most, if not all, states, a lawyer must accept a bench order to represent someone, provided there is no conflict of interest.  Many states also require a certain number of hours of pro bono service and taking on such a case would fit the bill.  

Often, as I have been told, those clients later get passed off to another lawyer who is more suited to the task, aka not as rich or powerful as the conscripted lawyer.  

That's not as bad as it sounds. Pro Bono cases are assigned without any regard given to the qualifications of the attorney. Someone who has only practised real estate law, for example, can be handed a child custody case. If her firm can afford it, it's better for the firm to hire someone else familiar with the law to handle the case. The extra cost is justified as the firm doesn't lose the use of an attorney needed for her expertise. Plus, the pro bono client gets an attorney who knows what he's doing. Most firms can't afford to hire a substitue, though.

[shapeshifter]

9 hours ago, 100Proof said:

What I saw was Kim seemingly becoming very concerned and had wheels spinning in her head over the huge expansions Mesa Verde was planning to undertake. I guess being privvy to their financials and all, she quietly saw it as unsustainable growth and a company becoming steeped in debt to cover that expansion. I think Kim saw a Mesa Verde collapse as imminent at some point.

What year was it then in the SG universe?  Was it prior to 2007 economic collapse?  If so, and although Kim couldn't have known that would happen, the collapse probably would've sealed Mesa Verde's demise and validated Kim's (my opinion) concerns.

So to me, that's why Kim wound up back in the courthouse. She knew her time as Mesa Verde's lawyer was coming to and end

 

I like this. It is believable and could mean that Kim's actions at this point are probably for the best.

 

 

9 hours ago, MaryPatShelby said:

Like I said, mine cut away mid-sentence - the judge saw Kim in the courtroom, reacted non-verbally, then said something like "I'm not..." or "I'm going to...", then....cut.  It just seems odd to cut away like that, before a scene has even ended.  But it sounds like I didn't miss anything.  

Do you mean these lines?:

Judge: Next time I see you lurking in my court, I'm gonna put you to work.

Kim: Understood.

Judge: Good luck to you.

Kim: Thank you, Your Honor. 

Edited September 4, 2018 by shapeshifter

[Quilt Fairy]

3 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Do you mean these lines?:

Judge: Next time I see you lurking in my court, I'm gonna put you to work.

Kim: Understood.

Judge: Good luck to you.

Kim: Thank you, Your Honor. 

This takes place in the judge's chambers.  There is another scene after this showing Kim back in the courtroom and the judge's reaction when he sees her.  Then there's a cut to commercial.

A week has passed and after watching this week's show which also has some abrupt cuts, I think this is just the way AMC is doing it.  A very quick cut to commercial without a fraction of a second's pause. Interestingly enough, when they cut from commercial back to the show, they do give you a second or two of black screen which allows your brain to realize a transition is taking place.  

[Bryce Lynch]

7 hours ago, Quilt Fairy said:

This takes place in the judge's chambers.  There is another scene after this showing Kim back in the courtroom and the judge's reaction when he sees her.  Then there's a cut to commercial.

A week has passed and after watching this week's show which also has some abrupt cuts, I think this is just the way AMC is doing it.  A very quick cut to commercial without a fraction of a second's pause. Interestingly enough, when they cut from commercial back to the show, they do give you a second or two of black screen which allows your brain to realize a transition is taking place.  

I am pretty sure the scene where Kim is seen sitting back in court and the judge sees her was complete.  I took it to mean Kim was saying "Challenge accepted" with regard to the threat/promise of public defender work.

[SunnyBeBe]

18 hours ago, Gobi said:

That's not as bad as it sounds. Pro Bono cases are assigned without any regard given to the qualifications of the attorney. Someone who has only practised real estate law, for example, can be handed a child custody case. If her firm can afford it, it's better for the firm to hire someone else familiar with the law to handle the case. The extra cost is justified as the firm doesn't lose the use of an attorney needed for her expertise. Plus, the pro bono client gets an attorney who knows what he's doing. Most firms can't afford to hire a substitue, though.

It's unethical to take a case for which you are not qualified to handle. So, I would think that real estate attorneys wouldn't be on the court appointed list. If you are, you have to acquaint yourself with the law, procedure, rules, etc.  It seems that Kim does have experience.  

[Gobi]

1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

It's unethical to take a case for which you are not qualified to handle. So, I would think that real estate attorneys wouldn't be on the court appointed list. If you are, you have to acquaint yourself with the law, procedure, rules, etc.  It seems that Kim does have experience.  

At least in my state, a lawyer is presumed to be qualified in all areas of the law, regardless of the reality. Never practising in a specific area does not excuse one from pro bono duty. All lawyers are on the pro bono list.

[Ailianna]

On 9/3/2018 at 2:40 PM, Penman61 said:

Can a lawyer just show up in a courtroom and then later be invited/conscripted to being a defense lawyer?  That doesn't seem...sustainable (among other problems).  Or is Kim just trying to get on a list?  (Even that seems problematic as a process.)

ETA:  Defense lawyers are definitely government employees (county, state, fed).  Is there some additional list of "for-hire" defense lawyers that a court can select from?

Defense attorneys are NOT all government employees.  The vast majority are private practitioners who get paid by their clients.  Only public defenders are government employees, and they are paid salaries, not by the case.  Most places have some form of assigned counsel list, however, which are private lawyers who can be assigned to defendants who financially qualify for a public defender (they are for poor people, not everyone), but where the public defenders office has a conflict with the case (often they have or are representing someone else in the case,, like a co-defendant, a victim or a witness).  The assigned counsel are compensated by taxpayer money, but usually they have to submit vouchers which show how many hours they worked on the case, and then get a fixed hourly rate (usually a lot less money than they would charge a private client).  It helps fill in the gaps for a lot of solo practitioners, but you can't make a living just on those cases.

Kim is getting herself on the assigned counsel list.

[CigarDoug]

On 9/1/2018 at 9:47 AM, Clanstarling said:

That's kind of what I love about them. There's no need to explore their emotions or motivations. They're a little break from the other characters who are so nuanced we pay attention to every little pause and movement, and whose motivations we love to debate on the forum. They're a force of nature - nothing to understand. Just violence incarnate.

* Looks at Clanstarling, says nothing *

* Looks forward again *